I think the reasons you stated are reasons why old-school MMO players have and are leaving WoW. That being Said, WoW's players are a new breed all together. There are players in WoW that will never ever play any other MMO and will stick with WoW because, to them, the new things released are just fun additions. The AVERAGE WoW player doesn't care about the other guy's gear or how hard or easy it was for him to get it. Thats not the point to a lot of players. The point is fun. Now, I don't think WoW is fun, but thats just me. I say, live and let live. To each there own. And just because Wendy's comes out with the Baconator doesn't mean McDonalds is going to go under.
Whose leaving it? I am an old school gamer and am just know finally getting interested in giving the game a shot. After beta and my first free month I swore I'd never play the game. Then an amazing thing happened...Burning Crusades and I, after some coaxing from a friend, decided to see what she was talking about, gave the game another shot and I am actually just now starting to play and enjoy it.
I've made this point before and I'll make it again, the forums themselves are proof that the game IS balanced. How's that you say? Go read the class forums. On EVERY SINGLE ONE you will find people complaining that THEIR class is underpowered. EVERY SINGLE ONE!! If that's not balance then I don't know what is.
Oh really - give me 3 links on priest forums where there is talk how bad priests are in healing atm ?
Or are you talking specs ? You mean that game is balanced when one spec of class that has same amount of talent points to work with is weaker than other spec ? Oh well ...
"1) Priest survivability - why is it priest have the lowest armor type of the other healing types. We also have the least amount of hitpoints, and we are the least mana efficent. Now were not even really considered a healing type. End game mana battery is all priest are now. Maybe make the sheild something that actually doesn't cost so much mana and isn't blown in 2 hits in pvp or a couple of hits by mobs our level. Or better yet drop the sheild spell and give us some freaking armor and a real sheild. Because spirit just isn't getting it done the way you meant it to. All other healing classes have escape abilities while we are done for ,once someone is on us. And almost everyone has the trinket to escape the fear. Add to that they have fear ward and it gets old fast.
3) Mana Efficency - You expect us to heal, you expect us to wear cloth, you give us only a weak sheild and fade to survive and you give us the least mana efficent class out there. I have played just about every class and hands down the priest has to be the least mana efficent class in the game. You don't have to worry about our healing because were not even close to the best healers in the game.
4) Healing - Someone make the freaking priest the best healer in the game or give us a new Identity. Or kill the class and merge us with Paldains (upgrading both) because it's obvious that the makers can't get around the Cleric/Paladin balance issues( and probably the complete heal arguement), which makes both classes underpowered. But at least Paladins have it all over clerics in survivability and end game usage. "
"1) Fear - Nerfed to death because of locks and is no longer reliable in gaining space on melee. In fact it seems many mobs are immune to our shadow spells. And to make it worse Locks have 3 fears we have only one, plus they have a pet. They can chain fear. And locks have a fear that heals them, and locks have twice the hitpoints? come on. And the lock fear only sends mobs so far away. The Priest fear sends mobs in all directions and brings back all kinds of trouble. In Pvp (on a pvp server) your fear is just as likely to get 2 mobs added to you as 2 mobs added to your opponent.
2) Shield- Either give us some hitpoints and some armor (so we can survive half as much as other classes) or make our shield spell less mana costly, or maybe make it also do damage to the mob as he breaks through it, but not be half way down a talent tree. Again we need something we have the least amount of hitpoints, the least amount of armor and are the least mana efficent of all the healing classes.
3) Talent trees - They all have to be redone. Let's face it the Priest is in need of a serious upgrade. I know others will sit there and say it's ok we can't do anything I enjoy the challenge. I play a priest , I don't know why but I do. But I also have played every other class in the game and I can tell you I feel the Priest are the weakest class. Shadow... If your gonna go down this tree make it count for damage, not as much as a lock ,but make it respectable. Holy...if you gonna go holy maybe make us healing and aggro reducing machines. You know like the Druid balance dream state talent. Discipline... Do something to make it more then just the second tree you take because it has talents you should have automatically.
5) Dispels/Debuffs - make our dispels a one cast like the Pallies. They just have to hit one button and it gets magic, disease and poison. We have 2 buttons. That is a mess when you have 20 - 40 people that need to be dispelled or debuffed. The aoe dispells are nice though, but it takes all your mana to dispell in a raid. And why do pallies get rid of poison but we don't? "
"1. Disc/Holy spec 21/40/0
2. was raiding , and small pvp, now sits on a shelf and collects dust , miss him tho
3. A) Holy tree needs fixed , both 31 and 41 point talents in this tree are a joke ,no one hardly uses them . And some of the talents to make a viable healer are in the disc tree.Put divine spirit here or make it trainable , i'd take it over our current 41 point circle of lol.
Arent priests supposed to be the pure breed of healers , but it seems all other hybrid healers can heal just as good and are stackable in raids , such as auras,totems , blessings . Priests should be hands down better at healing if their the main healing class and not a hybrid.
C) Priests should get some sort of relic, all other hybrid healing classes get 1, librams ,totems ,idols
What do we get a crappy wand that never gets used , a good idea is to make something for the priest class that boosts their spells as well.
4. A) Lightwell - or better know as lolwell , just make this break on direct damage and still tick on periodic damage and it would be viable. otherwise its a waste of a 31 point talent.
Innerfire - Ok who's idea was this to have charges anyway , its also needs a buff like mp5 or anything other than just armor to make it on par with other classes.
C) Fear- been nerfed because of locks and if it does work its trinketed right away , need some way to get away from danger other than this spell . even when pve it could spell disaster if forced to use this to stay alive.
D) Power word shield - alright this offers no protection at higher levels , buff it up and make it work only for the priest , kinda like a pally version for the priest , you could still leave the weak one to be cast on other players that doesnt drop their aggro . This would make the priest better than a hybrid , since the pally 1 drops all aggro for the target .
E) Fade - needs to be a permanent aggro dump , "
That took about 2 minutes to find. That link is 115 pages long. About the last 3 or 4 are since the last patch and you'll see tons of posts about how weak of healers priests are. And that's just one link. If you really want to see, you'll go read thru the posts and see for yourself, but I doubt you'll do that because you aren't a bit even interested in what anyone else has to say about anything, all you know is your Paladin, all you care about is your Paladin, all you can say is something about your Paladin. Your rhetoric is getting old very fast. I shouldn't have replied to this thread, I only did to show everyone how silly your statements are.
What's interesting to me is that some of the stuff that is mentioned here are things that I brought up in another thread about why I think Paladin's are very effective healers. Namely survivablity, multiple buffs, auras etc. Funny how the Priests can see it, but you can't. Perhaps I can see it because I also play a priest, not just a Pally.
lol - I asked for 3 direct links and you come with one and picking out few points of 100 page topic.
There are more shadow priests stating their issues in the last 20 pages than holy priests.... wonder why
While ur at it - find me simulare link on priest forums as this one - and would be nice if it had 9 prior full topics about the state of the class before that one.
lol - I asked for 3 direct links and you come with one and picking out few points of 100 page topic. Lol - 3 direct links m8. How hard can it be ?
Yeah, that's what I thought.
Your opinion is that all is perfectly balanced cause all are unhappy to a point. Well - I just dissagree. Thats my opinion. How many healing priests you think quit the game in the past month ?
I surely hope you are not dev - Ur logic would be - the more ppl that get unhappy about some things - the better balanced game we got ! Sorry m8. There are whiners and there are those that actually have something to say. And then I dont mean just copy paste few things from 100 page topic that suits u.
haha dude I wish conan could kill wow, I really do. But the game is horrible, trust me. It won't be ready for release and even if it is then most people will not find a "home" there =/
also, I quit WoW in 2005 after grinding to rank 14 and getting 5 pieces of tier 3- I saw blue items in the expansion as good as my tier 3 and better than my high warlord gear, I knew there would be no purpose to ever raid naxx or BWL or aq again, and people were able to grind honor in HOURS for rank 13-14 pvp gear that I spent months grinding 15+ hours a day earning. luckily my characters bought me a decent used car.
Just downloaded the free trial though with 2 of my rl friends, my brother, my cousin and his friend. Got an undead warlock to level 20 and then rerolled to an orc warlock (I can't give up the racials and looks =/). We are having fun and will be playing until WAR comes out, and if that sucks like conan will then... I really don't know. Wait for sc2 I guess?
I think the reasons you stated are reasons why old-school MMO players have and are leaving WoW. That being Said, WoW's players are a new breed all together. There are players in WoW that will never ever play any other MMO and will stick with WoW because, to them, the new things released are just fun additions. The AVERAGE WoW player doesn't care about the other guy's gear or how hard or easy it was for him to get it. Thats not the point to a lot of players. The point is fun. Now, I don't think WoW is fun, but thats just me. I say, live and let live. To each there own. And just because Wendy's comes out with the Baconator doesn't mean McDonalds is going to go under.
Yes a new breed of MMo player is being bred, and their new MMo is coming hellokittyonline.com/us
WoW bends to the extreme carebear, and yields to complaints about stuff being to difficult. All people who play care about their progression, and it's BS to believe otherwise. Will WoW die any time soon? No, regardless if me and my friends moved on over a year ago and near everyone I know has been fed up. Blizzard feeds on the newbie to MMo's genre straight and simple. They have made it loud and clear they could care less about your accomplishments at the top and want to appease the shittiest of players who don't even know you can group with more than 5 people (If they even know what an instance is). Keeping the sheep happy is all they care about it, and that is why WoW won't die (Might lose a lot but they will prolly exist for a good while)
Yes a new breed of MMo player is being bred, and their new MMo is coming hellokittyonline.com/us WoW bends to the extreme carebear, and yields to complaints about stuff being to difficult. All people who play care about their progression, and it's BS to believe otherwise. Will WoW die any time soon? No, regardless if me and my friends moved on over a year ago and near everyone I know has been fed up. Blizzard feeds on the newbie to MMo's genre straight and simple. They have made it loud and clear they could care less about your accomplishments at the top and want to appease the shittiest of players who don't even know you can group with more than 5 people (If they even know what an instance is). Keeping the sheep happy is all they care about it, and that is why WoW won't die (Might lose a lot but they will prolly exist for a good while)
The fall of WoW will be huge when it comes. Why ? Because they dont have the loyal long term players. All they have is the short terms gimme gimme gimme players that roll the easy classes for the easy to get stuff. Most good loyal players of WoW have left or are leaving. Its not just you and your friends that are looking elsewhere. There are alot. And ofc the ones that play classes that are not OP in terms of easy loot will go first. Creating even more overall unbalance ingame.
If the fall will happen any time soon ? Probably not in next months or even year. But its getting closer and BLizzard knows it. Thats why they are milking as much possible out of ppl atm. By giving out stuff. And they can't go back cause then the gimme gimme gimme ppl will leave and noone will be playing
Yes a new breed of MMo player is being bred, and their new MMo is coming hellokittyonline.com/us WoW bends to the extreme carebear, and yields to complaints about stuff being to difficult. All people who play care about their progression, and it's BS to believe otherwise. Will WoW die any time soon? No, regardless if me and my friends moved on over a year ago and near everyone I know has been fed up. Blizzard feeds on the newbie to MMo's genre straight and simple. They have made it loud and clear they could care less about your accomplishments at the top and want to appease the shittiest of players who don't even know you can group with more than 5 people (If they even know what an instance is). Keeping the sheep happy is all they care about it, and that is why WoW won't die (Might lose a lot but they will prolly exist for a good while)
The fall of WoW will be huge when it comes. Why ? Because they dont have the loyal long term players. All they have is the short terms gimme gimme gimme players that roll the easy classes for the easy to get stuff. Most good loyal players of WoW have left or are leaving. Its not just you and your friends that are looking elsewhere. There are alot. And ofc the ones that play classes that are not OP in terms of easy loot will go first. Creating even more overall unbalance ingame.
Alanon do you seriusly think wow and blizzard dosnt have a loyal long term fanbase? Are you that blinded by hate and the next wow killer game, that you dont see blizzard has a strong following in all the games they develop. Who tells you all the good loyal players have left lol? Because you knew a few people that left out of millions, you think everyone is leaving? You can carry on deluding yourself on what makes you happy, what I really feel sorry for is the people that cant find a game they like and stick with longer than 1 month. Infact more pople have probably played wow for the 3 years its been out continuosly than all the other mmos that were out previously. Also Alanon, while the so called next gen games keep giving release dates and missing them, wow only gets stronger and stronger, along with the new expansion, which is more pvp orientated than ever with and entire outdoor zone the size of westfall dedicated to pvp, I can only see wow getting stronger and bigger, while Aoc and warhammer flop, note I am in both beta tests since last november.
You talk about the fall of wow like it will kill the game and blizzard. Even if wow lost 50% of its playerbase, it would still be more profitable and have more players than all mmos out at present and most likely in the future. I play Daoc from time to time still, and max on gareth peak time you get 1k plus players and over all on all servers 4k people combined. If a game with 10k+ can survive there is no reason why blizzard couldnt even survive with 500k-1million players. You think the majority of people that play wow have never played any other mmo? with a population of lest say its 7 million to satisfy you, even if half of them havnt played an mmo before that still leaves millions who have. a VAST MAJORITY OF WOW PLAYERS HAVE COME FROM RAIDING GUILDS AND PVP CENTRIC GAMES like EQ and Daco to name a few, yes they could be in the minotiy but they would still be in he millions. So to say wow caters for the newbie is a total joke.
Like all things certain things reach a peak and then decline, you think anything can stay number 1 forever? Wow maybe will reach its peak now and when the new expansion comes, and then start to decline gradually as the newer mmos come out, its called a natural progression, like all things in life people move on.
I am beginning to think that most of the people that hate Wow (or complain and bitch and moan about it) are just jealous. Come on face it, blizz has the best devs and art team in the business. You want it to fail tell them to fire their dev team and their art team then it will fail. Oh and sorry the only game I see on the horizon that will match WOW's success is Blizzard's next MMO. Stop whining and just play. I have been playing since release, I play casually, dont raid, just PVE PVP and do the daily quests.
Another thing everyone will get tired of AOC button mashing and button spamming will get old soon enough and the massive amount of lag (not breaking the NDA since I am baseing this on the graphics of the game). PLus AOC has the end game raiding everyone will bitch and moan about as well. Thats what the internet is people constantly bitching and moaning, its getting sickening actually.
Yes a new breed of MMo player is being bred, and their new MMo is coming hellokittyonline.com/us WoW bends to the extreme carebear, and yields to complaints about stuff being to difficult. All people who play care about their progression, and it's BS to believe otherwise. Will WoW die any time soon? No, regardless if me and my friends moved on over a year ago and near everyone I know has been fed up. Blizzard feeds on the newbie to MMo's genre straight and simple. They have made it loud and clear they could care less about your accomplishments at the top and want to appease the shittiest of players who don't even know you can group with more than 5 people (If they even know what an instance is). Keeping the sheep happy is all they care about it, and that is why WoW won't die (Might lose a lot but they will prolly exist for a good while)
The fall of WoW will be huge when it comes. Why ? Because they dont have the loyal long term players. All they have is the short terms gimme gimme gimme players that roll the easy classes for the easy to get stuff. Most good loyal players of WoW have left or are leaving. Its not just you and your friends that are looking elsewhere. There are alot. And ofc the ones that play classes that are not OP in terms of easy loot will go first. Creating even more overall unbalance ingame.
If the fall will happen any time soon ? Probably not in next months or even year. But its getting closer and BLizzard knows it. Thats why they are milking as much possible out of ppl atm. By giving out stuff. And they can't go back cause then the gimme gimme gimme ppl will leave and noone will be playing
Again - just my opinion.
Blizzard have some of the most devoted fans in the world. Your 'opinion' on this matter is just wrong.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Eleventh line, first word... "idiots". You had a great thread going until you started bashing. Every word after that was a waste of your time. Even if there was no bumb in xp, newbies would still level fast. Most people are PL'd all the way to and including the outlands by friends and family. No wonder people don't know how to play their class.
"The end in sight?"
Are you kidding me? They have over 10 million ACTIVE paying subscribers. Even if 1 million went to play another game, they'd still have over 9 million ACTIVE paying subscribers. I hope all the "vets" do leave so there is fresh blood in the game. You think you are something because you take pride in your character because you've worked hard for the stuff you got.
Please, get over yourself already. Just think of how much better you could have make yourself or how much better you could have made someone else by investing that time in your education or volunteer work. World of Warcraft is a game that is meant to be played and enjoyed. It shouldn't be a hundred hour a week job.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Blizzard have some of the most devoted fans in the world. Your 'opinion' on this matter is just wrong.
Dont mix WoW up with Blizzard. Just remember that the leading person in charge of class balance in wow is former EQ2 dev that went balistic when so called "hybrids" of that game were given equal change of progress in endgame content compared to what he claimed to be "classic" rpgs specs....
I carry alot of respect for Blizzard - But I dont carry any respect for the state of WOW after 3 years of playing the game. In terms of MMO titles I carry alot more respect for games like EQ and even LOTRO that is gratually buiding up the game - instead of turning it on its head every few months. Thats not MMO - thats not something I want to be part of. And like it or not - I will keep saying that as long as Im posting on these forums. Cause I feel I owe that to any REAL mmo player to warn them that if they want to play longerm MMO content then WOW is not the game for them.
There are still ppl even on these forums that talk about 10 million current subscribers to WoW. No official numbers have been brought out since Xmas after millions and millions worth of add campaigning. But here is the thing - Numbers dont count when it comes to ppl talking on these forums. Players coming to this website to - just for exmaple - take a look at the raiting and they see what ? The 10 million player game at top ? Nope ... And they go on the forums here and see what? Some players talking about the negative effects of the game much more than the positive. But hey - that is what it means to be neutral MMO gaming site. You take the good and the bad. And the other neutrals might actually listen
Again - WoW is not worth long term comitment. Thats the verdict this game is getting now. At least from me. I base that on longterm playing (over 300 days over 3 years endgame PVE/PVP content). It doesn't make WOW a bad game - its just not build with the ruleset Im after anymore when it comes to long term progress. It is the kidversion of serious MMO games. And everyone should be allowed to know that.
So if newbies wanna try what MMOs are about - go play WoW - pick the current easy classes and see if you like it. And if you do get the heck out and find long term balanced game before its to l8t. Before the ship sinks with the next expansion
How will WOW be remembered in the long term history of MMOs ? A game played by millions at some stage ? Or a long term balanced and rewarding RPG game where long term character progress was considered as important part? Blizzard are answering that question themselfs. WoW is not though to be played as one character game. And thats not for me cause I play diffrently and have done so for over 10 years. And still have family, kids job and a house. And enjoy endgame content of MMOs instead of playing the same content with multiple ones.
If a MMO is not stronger than so that the Devs are telling ppl to go play the same content multiple times with diffrent characters - and then make the end content evolve around 25 daily quests and 2 ppl playing together in unbalanced PVP content ? Whats the point then ?
alanon~ in your post: I notice that you used the words 'long term' from time to time. it's as if you view MMORPG as an investment where you put your time and money into. whilst for me, instead of investing my time and money, I do what I normally do w/ any forms of entertainment: I spend them.
I reward Blizzard w/ loyal subscription because they provide fun, and fun -- like any good forms of entertainment: is the most important thing for me.
this is probably Blizzard is succesful w/ WoW: they do not expect people to put commitments into the game -- maybe they just want people to have fun. on the contrary, you're seeking a game where you can put commitment, invest, cultivate your characters, etc. WoW does not provide this, thus you're not happy. Simple logic.
alanon~ in your post: I notice that you used the words 'long term' from time to time. it's as if you view MMORPG as an investment where you put your time and money into. whilst for me, instead of investing my time and money, I do what I normally do w/ any forms of entertainment: I spend them. I reward Blizzard w/ loyal subscription because they provide fun, and fun -- like any good forms of entertainment: is the most important thing for me. this is probably Blizzard is succesful w/ WoW: they do not expect people to put commitments into the game -- maybe they just want people to have fun. on the contrary, you're seeking a game where you can put commitment, invest, cultivate your characters, etc. WoW does not provide this, thus you're not happy. Simple logic.
Exactly
WoW can not keep the fun part for gamers that look at mmos as long term gameplay - played over years developing character. And that leaves us with just very poor RPG game. Games like EQ have players that STILL are having fun on single character developing it - and are creating a whole story behind it.
I play MMORPGs in certain ways in that I play it with one character - and enljoy the most of the content. But while Im at it Im also making a long term story for that character. I try to respect ppl and build up positive picture of my character but if something goes wrong in that sence then its my job to fix it. Thats how I have played in WoW for the last 3 years - and in MMOs past 9. That is longterm comittment to a charcter and the RPG part is about lonterm relationship - not with just one ro two ppl but with whole server.
But hey - WoW cant support this kinda gameplay. THey are unable to create continued storyline or class and spec balance for it. And thats why the longterm players are looking elsewhere. Those that have the PC for going Conan will look for longerm Raiding in simualre PVE content as WoW has. And building up guilds to create their own sieges. Again longterm progress - not over weeks but months and years. Others will go to WAR and enjoy diffrent kinda real PVP system that is probably the best out there atm.
SO.. its about what ppl are after. Fun can last for 10 days or it can last for 10 years. But like you said and we have stated here many times before. WoW was never about anything than the short term. That stands for short term progress and short term friendships with other ppl online (at least in the game) cause its not stable enough for anything longerm. Good or bad ? Well... that depends what you are after. And for the MMORPG part it seems like its not so great if you look at the raiting WOW is getting on this website. But in terms of making money and building a game on luring new ppl in Blizzard are doing great. Thats exactly why we are now seeing items of same quality on ppl that have played 2-3 months and those that have played for 2-3 years.
If you're like me with a full time job, WoW is a conisiderable time investment. Perhaps to kids at at school with too much spare time, it's a 'short term' game, but I don't really think so.
I was working when playing the original EQ as well, which you list as a long-term game. If by long term you mean, camping for literally days for the cleric epic mob only to have it lost to another guild because they had more school-kids online during the daytime, then yeah, WoW is short term.
If you think that the way EQs dungeons had a few set 'camps' for each dungeon in which your group would spend the entire time, not moving, for several hours at a time, killing the same mobs over, and over a again, then yeah.... WoW in comparison is short term.
If you think that the original VT key quest where your entire guild sat in the lower reaches in SSRA to farm bane weapons, the components of which dropped incredibly rarely, not to mention the key parts themselves is long term, then so be it.
The 'long term' of EQ is a fake, stretched game where your time is spent waiting... waiting... waiting... grinding... grinding... grinding.. And while this does lend itself to a more 'epic' experience, in the end, it's just your time being wasted - the gaps between the 'stuff' is longer.
Yet despite all of this, this does not lend itself to more devoted fans. A game which doesn't require you to sign your life away to needless timesinks, that doesn't dilute the content anywhere nearly as much, is going to keep people around for longer.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
I'll give you the fact that calling a generalized group "idiots" was a bit unnecessary, but then again, if you've grouped with the same sort of "huntards" that I have, you'd find the name sticks quite well. Trapping a mob and keeping it trapped isn't that hard.
Now, due to this massive influx of DPS classes mixed with the limited number of healers/tanks leads to one thing, a lot of unhappy players. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's sat in LFG for hours trying to find those two missing pieces, am I?
Another little thing I touched on, but didn't really explore, is the lack of balance in professions. Jewelcrafting is the top dog right now, no contest. Enchanting is at a close second, and I would say Leatherworking behind that, for the different armor kits. It seems like Tailoring, Blacksmithing, Engineering, and Alchemy are all becoming more and more worthless. This is just a personal opinion, and if you can find something in those that makes them truly awesome, on the level of Jewelcrafting and Alchemy, then I'd be more than happy to see it. Alchemy used to have Primal Might transmutes, but now all the good craftable items require Primal Nethers and Vortices (the plural of vortex, in case you're wondering). Once again, Blizzard favors the many and shuns the few.
Yes, every class and every spec will always complain about someone else being overpowered and them being underpowered. Everyone will, because everyone has a voice. However, if I say, "Pencils are made from human flesh," that doesn't make it true. While it IS up to Blizzard to balance these classes, I severly doubt their ability to. Once again, give to the many, take from the few.
Now, seeing as how the game is slowly turning into a more and more casual friendly game, the achievements within it are becoming more and more worthless. Remember when "High Warlord" meant something? Pre-BC, how about when you said "Ding, 60!"? Even hitting 70 is a minor accomplishment now. Getting the "Champion of the Naaru" titles is a mediocre success, at best. When I see "Hand of A'dal" next to a character's name, I get a minor, "Huh, neat." No longer that "Wow! Where do I get that?"
I miss that. I miss being enthralled by what was once an incredible game.
Now, the rest of this post is purely me spouting off, so if you want to, skip it.
I think that, while the game started off good, its overwhelming success is a fluke. Would this game have succeeded as well as it has if it didn't have the Warcraft name on it? Doubtful.
As more and more of the long term WoW players get the shaft, I can only wonder how long it will be until all of the tanks and healers jump ship. I severly doubt the ability of the "extremely casual, DPS only" player to level and play either of those two roles. Seems to me that most of the "casual" players are just pressing the same series of buttons they've been pushing since they started the character. I've been in more than one PUG where the hunter didn't trap, didn't misdirect, didn't turn off growl, or didn't bring ammunition. How many PUGs where the warlock didn't bring soul shards? Or didn't summon the succubus after his Seduce target had been named, over and over in Party Chat?
Meh, I could complain a bit more, but the overwhelming response is still likely to be one of the following:
"If you're complaining so much, why do you still play?"
"WoW is never going to die, so stop whining."
"Just wait for AoC/WAR/???, it will be the end of WoW."
It is not so much that i don't care that people feel upset about their classes/build being changed, it is that i have become indifferent to the same complaints over and over again every time Blizzard change anything in the game. The fact that you feel aggrieved about the changes to your class is not invalid, but you are not the first and i can pretty much say for certain that you won't be the last. People leaving or threatening to leave WoW because of class balance changes is nothing new at the end of the day, so you will excuse me if i don't start running around telling everyone that the sky is falling in! As we have seen from previous posts here, some may share your views but others feel otherwise and are getting on with the changes to their classes/builds successfully, you may feel that you are right but i am pretty sure that they do too. I could come here and moan about the availability of 'detect invisible' buffs in Arena's being unfair to rogues, about how it is a pain in the ass not to be able to stealth just because someone else has aggroed a MOB next to me and how all leather gear seems druid biased now, but i don't. If i have a problem with the game i use the test realms and other channels to Blizzard to put my points across in a way that may actually influence something or at the very least raise the point to the right people. In the mean time i make changes to my gear/build/strategies to compensate for the changes and get on with enjoying the game. If i just stood around here screaming "its unfair, it's unfair" it may make me feel a bit better to get it out of my system, but it will never change anything.
Absolutely. To Blizz, people that run around screaming "it's unfair!" are like headless chickens, running around. It may make them feel better but Blizz knows whatever change they make, it'll just upset someone else. People want the game to be perfect which is an impossible goal. If I ever see a game where everything is balanced and there's only a few people grumbling, even if it has stick figure graphics and no background story at all, I'll play it. Just to experience something that never existed before, lol!
I've made this point before and I'll make it again, the forums themselves are proof that the game IS balanced. How's that you say? Go read the class forums. On EVERY SINGLE ONE you will find people complaining that THEIR class is underpowered. EVERY SINGLE ONE!! If that's not balance then I don't know what is.
LMAO! Nice post, and I would have to say you are right about every forums complaining their class is underpowered so in this term I would have to say your absolutely correct about the balance.
Out of every 100 men, 10 should not be there, 80 are nothing but targets, 9 are the real fighters. Ah, but one, ONE of them is a warrior, and he will bring the others home. -Heraclitus 500BC
"On a side note, and more of a personal thing that irritates me about WoW, when is Blizzard going to make a World General Channel so we can use Trade for selling?"
They already had a world LFG channel and all it turned out to be was the trade channel BS but across all the zones.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
alanon~ in your post: I notice that you used the words 'long term' from time to time. it's as if you view MMORPG as an investment where you put your time and money into. whilst for me, instead of investing my time and money, I do what I normally do w/ any forms of entertainment: I spend them. I reward Blizzard w/ loyal subscription because they provide fun, and fun -- like any good forms of entertainment: is the most important thing for me. this is probably Blizzard is succesful w/ WoW: they do not expect people to put commitments into the game -- maybe they just want people to have fun. on the contrary, you're seeking a game where you can put commitment, invest, cultivate your characters, etc. WoW does not provide this, thus you're not happy. Simple logic.
Exactly
WoW can not keep the fun part for gamers that look at mmos as long term gameplay - played over years developing character. And that leaves us with just very poor RPG game. Games like EQ have players that STILL are having fun on single character developing it - and are creating a whole story behind it.
I play MMORPGs in certain ways in that I play it with one character - and enljoy the most of the content. But while Im at it Im also making a long term story for that character. I try to respect ppl and build up positive picture of my character but if something goes wrong in that sence then its my job to fix it. Thats how I have played in WoW for the last 3 years - and in MMOs past 9. That is longterm comittment to a charcter and the RPG part is about lonterm relationship - not with just one ro two ppl but with whole server.
But hey - WoW cant support this kinda gameplay. THey are unable to create continued storyline or class and spec balance for it. And thats why the longterm players are looking elsewhere. Those that have the PC for going Conan will look for longerm Raiding in simualre PVE content as WoW has. And building up guilds to create their own sieges. Again longterm progress - not over weeks but months and years. Others will go to WAR and enjoy diffrent kinda real PVP system that is probably the best out there atm.
SO.. its about what ppl are after. Fun can last for 10 days or it can last for 10 years. But like you said and we have stated here many times before. WoW was never about anything than the short term. That stands for short term progress and short term friendships with other ppl online (at least in the game) cause its not stable enough for anything longerm. Good or bad ? Well... that depends what you are after. And for the MMORPG part it seems like its not so great if you look at the raiting WOW is getting on this website. But in terms of making money and building a game on luring new ppl in Blizzard are doing great. Thats exactly why we are now seeing items of same quality on ppl that have played 2-3 months and those that have played for 2-3 years.
I used to play all my characters in this way.. UNTIL.. SWG and its NGE. That was the turning point for me as far as playing my characters long term and improving them and their image. Why did the NGE change this? Well after 3 years dedicated to a character it was flushed down the shitter with no respect at all to a dedicated SWG player.
That being said, I enjoy the way WoW has done things with xp, quests because now I can play as many classes as I want, try classes I wouldnt of tried before and to my suprise I found a couple I enjoy very much that I otherwise wouldnt of even looked at being dedicated to one toon.
I play WoW first of all because I enjoy it, second because of limited time having a job and family and because of the fact that I dont have to be dedicated to it. I dont raid, as a matter of fact I have never done any raid in WoW. Would I like to? Of course, but with my game times it just isnt possible. But because of them lowering things I do run 5 mans and heroics if at all possible but I dont run them for gear I run them for fun.
WoW is WoW, some like it some dont, but no one forced anyone to play it or try it out, they did that themselves. I have fun playing and because of its mechanics I can leave the game for a year and come back and still enjoy myself knowing that there are mechanics there that give me the chance to catch up with friends and do things.
Out of every 100 men, 10 should not be there, 80 are nothing but targets, 9 are the real fighters. Ah, but one, ONE of them is a warrior, and he will bring the others home. -Heraclitus 500BC
To answer Enforcer71 - TBH I dont know how to play any other way
I mean - To me this is what MMORPG is. This is what many of the old timers feel about Muds and MMOs. This is how the current devs of wow played their MMO. Currently WoW is no longer RPG -Its a game where your character doesn't matter. In a sence the new Arena tournament system proves that.
SWG failed and destroyed their repititon on one expansion. Blizzard is going down the exact same road. Selling themselfs for quick bucks while longterm it will lead to nothing. Thats probably why the real devs left and Blizzard is now making another MMORPG game. I will in the next few days give you guys abit of an insight into current devs and what they stand for. You might be surprised who they are.... and it also might explain few things.
There are ppl that take their MMORPGs seriously. Just wait and see some of what current devs said few years ago and got banned from their MMO when they went over the line They took it seriously as players - But also made some comments that are still hunting them to this day.
To the op. Well - I played a healing class and I desided to quit on the eve of patch 2.4 cause even as a healer I could see that my spec was subpar to all other healing classes. And tbh Im not paying for that. If 9 dps classes are LFG - then wonder LFG as a gimped healer - No that doesn't make me a bad player saying that. Point is that good players dont play gimped classes or specs. Cause good players know whats good and whats bad. We are looking for the best PVP arena players atm and lets see what classes they are picking. - Remember - they are not lvling their characters or playing that for 3 years tho. Meaning - No RPG part.
But maybe some ppl should consider this abit. Personally I desided in the start of TBC to let the destiny deside if I would stay Holy or go Prot. Destiny in like what would be dropping for me while grouping up with m8ts and what spec my m8s needed me to play. I started out as prot. Did all dungeons to 65 as tank. Thing was... I got more healing plate items than Tanking ones. Thing was - I needed to go healing cause most were specing for dmg. So back to holy I went - using my tier 2 gear mostly to solo lvl (tier 3 and current healing gear did not have dmg). And guess what. Then we came to Karazhan ... Yes with full healing set for healing paladin waiting. My destiny was desided by need and drops. I played my part in the RPG. But... just to find out that in next 4 patches - both my abilites and items where nerfed. That has nothing to do with RPG. And neither had it anything to do with the dev's so called beloved "balance"
And the same goes for arena. It has nothing to do with RPG. Its a way to give out items in unbalanced PVP content with minimum amount of effort. And not only that - it has been exploid multiple times to gain free items.
You want fair and clear rules in the MMO your playing. But thats not WoW. Sorry m8- I will not be taking part in WOTLK - not as needed gimped healer for those LFG dpsers. Cause there is a limit to the abuse ppl should be paying for. But who knows.. maybe the devs will make new "hybrid" that will solve the healing problems.... nope... we needed another dps and tank class... Ye right
The current leading dev's of WOW are incompitent in doing their job. I will be posting here next few days with examples of that. And if there are ppl here claiming those "incompitent" devs created WoW in the first place? Nope - not true. Those devs have left the Blizzard team. They are no longer part of the game. They would not have accepted a MMORPG beeing taking into 2 man PVP game. And I know that for fact.
* Avenger's Shield, Holy Shield and Holy Shock: Casting lower ranks of these spells is now properly penalized like other healing and damage effects.
* Divine Illumination: The mana energize from this talent no longer has a chance to set off other triggered effects.
* Holy Shield and Holy Shock: Casting lower ranks of these spells is now properly penalized like other healing and damage effects.
* Judgment of the Crusader: It is no longer possible to have icons for two different ranks of Judgment of the Crusader appear at the same time when judged by multiple Paladins.
* Judgment of Wisdom: Some abilities (such as Frostbolt) were not triggering the mana energize effect from this spell. This has now been fixed.
I don't see anything there which would cause you so much bother. Holy Paladins are not "gimped healers", not in the slightest.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Comments
Whose leaving it? I am an old school gamer and am just know finally getting interested in giving the game a shot. After beta and my first free month I swore I'd never play the game. Then an amazing thing happened...Burning Crusades and I, after some coaxing from a friend, decided to see what she was talking about, gave the game another shot and I am actually just now starting to play and enjoy it.
Oh really - give me 3 links on priest forums where there is talk how bad priests are in healing atm ?Or are you talking specs ? You mean that game is balanced when one spec of class that has same amount of talent points to work with is weaker than other spec ? Oh well ...
Again - go link me those posts.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=3271069568&sid=1&pageNo=114
Some excerpts for your viewing pleasure:
"1) Priest survivability - why is it priest have the lowest armor type of the other healing types. We also have the least amount of hitpoints, and we are the least mana efficent. Now were not even really considered a healing type. End game mana battery is all priest are now. Maybe make the sheild something that actually doesn't cost so much mana and isn't blown in 2 hits in pvp or a couple of hits by mobs our level. Or better yet drop the sheild spell and give us some freaking armor and a real sheild. Because spirit just isn't getting it done the way you meant it to. All other healing classes have escape abilities while we are done for ,once someone is on us. And almost everyone has the trinket to escape the fear. Add to that they have fear ward and it gets old fast.
3) Mana Efficency - You expect us to heal, you expect us to wear cloth, you give us only a weak sheild and fade to survive and you give us the least mana efficent class out there. I have played just about every class and hands down the priest has to be the least mana efficent class in the game. You don't have to worry about our healing because were not even close to the best healers in the game.
4) Healing - Someone make the freaking priest the best healer in the game or give us a new Identity. Or kill the class and merge us with Paldains (upgrading both) because it's obvious that the makers can't get around the Cleric/Paladin balance issues( and probably the complete heal arguement), which makes both classes underpowered. But at least Paladins have it all over clerics in survivability and end game usage. "
"1) Fear - Nerfed to death because of locks and is no longer reliable in gaining space on melee. In fact it seems many mobs are immune to our shadow spells. And to make it worse Locks have 3 fears we have only one, plus they have a pet. They can chain fear. And locks have a fear that heals them, and locks have twice the hitpoints? come on. And the lock fear only sends mobs so far away. The Priest fear sends mobs in all directions and brings back all kinds of trouble. In Pvp (on a pvp server) your fear is just as likely to get 2 mobs added to you as 2 mobs added to your opponent.
2) Shield- Either give us some hitpoints and some armor (so we can survive half as much as other classes) or make our shield spell less mana costly, or maybe make it also do damage to the mob as he breaks through it, but not be half way down a talent tree. Again we need something we have the least amount of hitpoints, the least amount of armor and are the least mana efficent of all the healing classes.
3) Talent trees - They all have to be redone. Let's face it the Priest is in need of a serious upgrade. I know others will sit there and say it's ok we can't do anything I enjoy the challenge. I play a priest , I don't know why but I do. But I also have played every other class in the game and I can tell you I feel the Priest are the weakest class. Shadow... If your gonna go down this tree make it count for damage, not as much as a lock ,but make it respectable. Holy...if you gonna go holy maybe make us healing and aggro reducing machines. You know like the Druid balance dream state talent. Discipline... Do something to make it more then just the second tree you take because it has talents you should have automatically.
5) Dispels/Debuffs - make our dispels a one cast like the Pallies. They just have to hit one button and it gets magic, disease and poison. We have 2 buttons. That is a mess when you have 20 - 40 people that need to be dispelled or debuffed. The aoe dispells are nice though, but it takes all your mana to dispell in a raid. And why do pallies get rid of poison but we don't? "
"1. Disc/Holy spec 21/40/0
Arent priests supposed to be the pure breed of healers , but it seems all other hybrid healers can heal just as good and are stackable in raids , such as auras,totems , blessings . Priests should be hands down better at healing if their the main healing class and not a hybrid.
Innerfire - Ok who's idea was this to have charges anyway , its also needs a buff like mp5 or anything other than just armor to make it on par with other classes.
2. was raiding , and small pvp, now sits on a shelf and collects dust , miss him tho
3. A) Holy tree needs fixed , both 31 and 41 point talents in this tree are a joke ,no one hardly uses them . And some of the talents to make a viable healer are in the disc tree.Put divine spirit here or make it trainable , i'd take it over our current 41 point circle of lol.
C) Priests should get some sort of relic, all other hybrid healing classes get 1, librams ,totems ,idols
What do we get a crappy wand that never gets used , a good idea is to make something for the priest class that boosts their spells as well.
4. A) Lightwell - or better know as lolwell , just make this break on direct damage and still tick on periodic damage and it would be viable. otherwise its a waste of a 31 point talent.
C) Fear- been nerfed because of locks and if it does work its trinketed right away , need some way to get away from danger other than this spell . even when pve it could spell disaster if forced to use this to stay alive.
D) Power word shield - alright this offers no protection at higher levels , buff it up and make it work only for the priest , kinda like a pally version for the priest , you could still leave the weak one to be cast on other players that doesnt drop their aggro . This would make the priest better than a hybrid , since the pally 1 drops all aggro for the target .
E) Fade - needs to be a permanent aggro dump , "
That took about 2 minutes to find. That link is 115 pages long. About the last 3 or 4 are since the last patch and you'll see tons of posts about how weak of healers priests are. And that's just one link. If you really want to see, you'll go read thru the posts and see for yourself, but I doubt you'll do that because you aren't a bit even interested in what anyone else has to say about anything, all you know is your Paladin, all you care about is your Paladin, all you can say is something about your Paladin. Your rhetoric is getting old very fast. I shouldn't have replied to this thread, I only did to show everyone how silly your statements are.
What's interesting to me is that some of the stuff that is mentioned here are things that I brought up in another thread about why I think Paladin's are very effective healers. Namely survivablity, multiple buffs, auras etc. Funny how the Priests can see it, but you can't. Perhaps I can see it because I also play a priest, not just a Pally.
That's a nice post Pappy, and a very good point. Every class and spec complains that they are underpowered. Everyone.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
lol - I asked for 3 direct links and you come with one and picking out few points of 100 page topic.
There are more shadow priests stating their issues in the last 20 pages than holy priests.... wonder why
While ur at it - find me simulare link on priest forums as this one - and would be nice if it had 9 prior full topics about the state of the class before that one.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=5640665137&sid=1
Lol - 3 direct links m8. How hard can it be ?
Yeah, that's what I thought.
Yeah, that's what I thought.
Your opinion is that all is perfectly balanced cause all are unhappy to a point. Well - I just dissagree. Thats my opinion. How many healing priests you think quit the game in the past month ?
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=5640665137&sid=1
Read it - its a good read.
I surely hope you are not dev - Ur logic would be - the more ppl that get unhappy about some things - the better balanced game we got ! Sorry m8. There are whiners and there are those that actually have something to say. And then I dont mean just copy paste few things from 100 page topic that suits u.
haha dude I wish conan could kill wow, I really do. But the game is horrible, trust me. It won't be ready for release and even if it is then most people will not find a "home" there =/
also, I quit WoW in 2005 after grinding to rank 14 and getting 5 pieces of tier 3- I saw blue items in the expansion as good as my tier 3 and better than my high warlord gear, I knew there would be no purpose to ever raid naxx or BWL or aq again, and people were able to grind honor in HOURS for rank 13-14 pvp gear that I spent months grinding 15+ hours a day earning. luckily my characters bought me a decent used car.
Just downloaded the free trial though with 2 of my rl friends, my brother, my cousin and his friend. Got an undead warlock to level 20 and then rerolled to an orc warlock (I can't give up the racials and looks =/). We are having fun and will be playing until WAR comes out, and if that sucks like conan will then... I really don't know. Wait for sc2 I guess?
Yes a new breed of MMo player is being bred, and their new MMo is coming hellokittyonline.com/us
WoW bends to the extreme carebear, and yields to complaints about stuff being to difficult. All people who play care about their progression, and it's BS to believe otherwise. Will WoW die any time soon? No, regardless if me and my friends moved on over a year ago and near everyone I know has been fed up. Blizzard feeds on the newbie to MMo's genre straight and simple. They have made it loud and clear they could care less about your accomplishments at the top and want to appease the shittiest of players who don't even know you can group with more than 5 people (If they even know what an instance is). Keeping the sheep happy is all they care about it, and that is why WoW won't die (Might lose a lot but they will prolly exist for a good while)
The fall of WoW will be huge when it comes. Why ? Because they dont have the loyal long term players. All they have is the short terms gimme gimme gimme players that roll the easy classes for the easy to get stuff. Most good loyal players of WoW have left or are leaving. Its not just you and your friends that are looking elsewhere. There are alot. And ofc the ones that play classes that are not OP in terms of easy loot will go first. Creating even more overall unbalance ingame.
If the fall will happen any time soon ? Probably not in next months or even year. But its getting closer and BLizzard knows it. Thats why they are milking as much possible out of ppl atm. By giving out stuff. And they can't go back cause then the gimme gimme gimme ppl will leave and noone will be playing
Again - just my opinion.
Alanon do you seriusly think wow and blizzard dosnt have a loyal long term fanbase? Are you that blinded by hate and the next wow killer game, that you dont see blizzard has a strong following in all the games they develop. Who tells you all the good loyal players have left lol? Because you knew a few people that left out of millions, you think everyone is leaving? You can carry on deluding yourself on what makes you happy, what I really feel sorry for is the people that cant find a game they like and stick with longer than 1 month. Infact more pople have probably played wow for the 3 years its been out continuosly than all the other mmos that were out previously. Also Alanon, while the so called next gen games keep giving release dates and missing them, wow only gets stronger and stronger, along with the new expansion, which is more pvp orientated than ever with and entire outdoor zone the size of westfall dedicated to pvp, I can only see wow getting stronger and bigger, while Aoc and warhammer flop, note I am in both beta tests since last november.
You talk about the fall of wow like it will kill the game and blizzard. Even if wow lost 50% of its playerbase, it would still be more profitable and have more players than all mmos out at present and most likely in the future. I play Daoc from time to time still, and max on gareth peak time you get 1k plus players and over all on all servers 4k people combined. If a game with 10k+ can survive there is no reason why blizzard couldnt even survive with 500k-1million players. You think the majority of people that play wow have never played any other mmo? with a population of lest say its 7 million to satisfy you, even if half of them havnt played an mmo before that still leaves millions who have. a VAST MAJORITY OF WOW PLAYERS HAVE COME FROM RAIDING GUILDS AND PVP CENTRIC GAMES like EQ and Daco to name a few, yes they could be in the minotiy but they would still be in he millions. So to say wow caters for the newbie is a total joke.
Like all things certain things reach a peak and then decline, you think anything can stay number 1 forever? Wow maybe will reach its peak now and when the new expansion comes, and then start to decline gradually as the newer mmos come out, its called a natural progression, like all things in life people move on.
I am beginning to think that most of the people that hate Wow (or complain and bitch and moan about it) are just jealous. Come on face it, blizz has the best devs and art team in the business. You want it to fail tell them to fire their dev team and their art team then it will fail. Oh and sorry the only game I see on the horizon that will match WOW's success is Blizzard's next MMO. Stop whining and just play. I have been playing since release, I play casually, dont raid, just PVE PVP and do the daily quests.
Another thing everyone will get tired of AOC button mashing and button spamming will get old soon enough and the massive amount of lag (not breaking the NDA since I am baseing this on the graphics of the game). PLus AOC has the end game raiding everyone will bitch and moan about as well. Thats what the internet is people constantly bitching and moaning, its getting sickening actually.
The fall of WoW will be huge when it comes. Why ? Because they dont have the loyal long term players. All they have is the short terms gimme gimme gimme players that roll the easy classes for the easy to get stuff. Most good loyal players of WoW have left or are leaving. Its not just you and your friends that are looking elsewhere. There are alot. And ofc the ones that play classes that are not OP in terms of easy loot will go first. Creating even more overall unbalance ingame.
If the fall will happen any time soon ? Probably not in next months or even year. But its getting closer and BLizzard knows it. Thats why they are milking as much possible out of ppl atm. By giving out stuff. And they can't go back cause then the gimme gimme gimme ppl will leave and noone will be playing
Again - just my opinion.
Blizzard have some of the most devoted fans in the world. Your 'opinion' on this matter is just wrong.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
OP,
Eleventh line, first word... "idiots". You had a great thread going until you started bashing. Every word after that was a waste of your time. Even if there was no bumb in xp, newbies would still level fast. Most people are PL'd all the way to and including the outlands by friends and family. No wonder people don't know how to play their class.
"The end in sight?"
Are you kidding me? They have over 10 million ACTIVE paying subscribers. Even if 1 million went to play another game, they'd still have over 9 million ACTIVE paying subscribers. I hope all the "vets" do leave so there is fresh blood in the game. You think you are something because you take pride in your character because you've worked hard for the stuff you got.
Please, get over yourself already. Just think of how much better you could have make yourself or how much better you could have made someone else by investing that time in your education or volunteer work. World of Warcraft is a game that is meant to be played and enjoyed. It shouldn't be a hundred hour a week job.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Dont mix WoW up with Blizzard. Just remember that the leading person in charge of class balance in wow is former EQ2 dev that went balistic when so called "hybrids" of that game were given equal change of progress in endgame content compared to what he claimed to be "classic" rpgs specs....
I carry alot of respect for Blizzard - But I dont carry any respect for the state of WOW after 3 years of playing the game. In terms of MMO titles I carry alot more respect for games like EQ and even LOTRO that is gratually buiding up the game - instead of turning it on its head every few months. Thats not MMO - thats not something I want to be part of. And like it or not - I will keep saying that as long as Im posting on these forums. Cause I feel I owe that to any REAL mmo player to warn them that if they want to play longerm MMO content then WOW is not the game for them.
There are still ppl even on these forums that talk about 10 million current subscribers to WoW. No official numbers have been brought out since Xmas after millions and millions worth of add campaigning. But here is the thing - Numbers dont count when it comes to ppl talking on these forums. Players coming to this website to - just for exmaple - take a look at the raiting and they see what ? The 10 million player game at top ? Nope ... And they go on the forums here and see what? Some players talking about the negative effects of the game much more than the positive. But hey - that is what it means to be neutral MMO gaming site. You take the good and the bad. And the other neutrals might actually listen
Again - WoW is not worth long term comitment. Thats the verdict this game is getting now. At least from me. I base that on longterm playing (over 300 days over 3 years endgame PVE/PVP content). It doesn't make WOW a bad game - its just not build with the ruleset Im after anymore when it comes to long term progress. It is the kidversion of serious MMO games. And everyone should be allowed to know that.
So if newbies wanna try what MMOs are about - go play WoW - pick the current easy classes and see if you like it. And if you do get the heck out and find long term balanced game before its to l8t. Before the ship sinks with the next expansion
How will WOW be remembered in the long term history of MMOs ? A game played by millions at some stage ? Or a long term balanced and rewarding RPG game where long term character progress was considered as important part? Blizzard are answering that question themselfs. WoW is not though to be played as one character game. And thats not for me cause I play diffrently and have done so for over 10 years. And still have family, kids job and a house. And enjoy endgame content of MMOs instead of playing the same content with multiple ones.
If a MMO is not stronger than so that the Devs are telling ppl to go play the same content multiple times with diffrent characters - and then make the end content evolve around 25 daily quests and 2 ppl playing together in unbalanced PVP content ? Whats the point then ?
But hey - thats just my opinion.
alanon~ in your post: I notice that you used the words 'long term' from time to time. it's as if you view MMORPG as an investment where you put your time and money into. whilst for me, instead of investing my time and money, I do what I normally do w/ any forms of entertainment: I spend them.
I reward Blizzard w/ loyal subscription because they provide fun, and fun -- like any good forms of entertainment: is the most important thing for me.
this is probably Blizzard is succesful w/ WoW: they do not expect people to put commitments into the game -- maybe they just want people to have fun. on the contrary, you're seeking a game where you can put commitment, invest, cultivate your characters, etc. WoW does not provide this, thus you're not happy. Simple logic.
WoW can not keep the fun part for gamers that look at mmos as long term gameplay - played over years developing character. And that leaves us with just very poor RPG game. Games like EQ have players that STILL are having fun on single character developing it - and are creating a whole story behind it.
I play MMORPGs in certain ways in that I play it with one character - and enljoy the most of the content. But while Im at it Im also making a long term story for that character. I try to respect ppl and build up positive picture of my character but if something goes wrong in that sence then its my job to fix it. Thats how I have played in WoW for the last 3 years - and in MMOs past 9. That is longterm comittment to a charcter and the RPG part is about lonterm relationship - not with just one ro two ppl but with whole server.
But hey - WoW cant support this kinda gameplay. THey are unable to create continued storyline or class and spec balance for it. And thats why the longterm players are looking elsewhere. Those that have the PC for going Conan will look for longerm Raiding in simualre PVE content as WoW has. And building up guilds to create their own sieges. Again longterm progress - not over weeks but months and years. Others will go to WAR and enjoy diffrent kinda real PVP system that is probably the best out there atm.
SO.. its about what ppl are after. Fun can last for 10 days or it can last for 10 years. But like you said and we have stated here many times before. WoW was never about anything than the short term. That stands for short term progress and short term friendships with other ppl online (at least in the game) cause its not stable enough for anything longerm. Good or bad ? Well... that depends what you are after. And for the MMORPG part it seems like its not so great if you look at the raiting WOW is getting on this website. But in terms of making money and building a game on luring new ppl in Blizzard are doing great. Thats exactly why we are now seeing items of same quality on ppl that have played 2-3 months and those that have played for 2-3 years.
If you're like me with a full time job, WoW is a conisiderable time investment. Perhaps to kids at at school with too much spare time, it's a 'short term' game, but I don't really think so.
I was working when playing the original EQ as well, which you list as a long-term game. If by long term you mean, camping for literally days for the cleric epic mob only to have it lost to another guild because they had more school-kids online during the daytime, then yeah, WoW is short term.
If you think that the way EQs dungeons had a few set 'camps' for each dungeon in which your group would spend the entire time, not moving, for several hours at a time, killing the same mobs over, and over a again, then yeah.... WoW in comparison is short term.
If you think that the original VT key quest where your entire guild sat in the lower reaches in SSRA to farm bane weapons, the components of which dropped incredibly rarely, not to mention the key parts themselves is long term, then so be it.
The 'long term' of EQ is a fake, stretched game where your time is spent waiting... waiting... waiting... grinding... grinding... grinding.. And while this does lend itself to a more 'epic' experience, in the end, it's just your time being wasted - the gaps between the 'stuff' is longer.
Yet despite all of this, this does not lend itself to more devoted fans. A game which doesn't require you to sign your life away to needless timesinks, that doesn't dilute the content anywhere nearly as much, is going to keep people around for longer.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
I'll give you the fact that calling a generalized group "idiots" was a bit unnecessary, but then again, if you've grouped with the same sort of "huntards" that I have, you'd find the name sticks quite well. Trapping a mob and keeping it trapped isn't that hard.
Now, due to this massive influx of DPS classes mixed with the limited number of healers/tanks leads to one thing, a lot of unhappy players. I'm sure I'm not the only one who's sat in LFG for hours trying to find those two missing pieces, am I?
Another little thing I touched on, but didn't really explore, is the lack of balance in professions. Jewelcrafting is the top dog right now, no contest. Enchanting is at a close second, and I would say Leatherworking behind that, for the different armor kits. It seems like Tailoring, Blacksmithing, Engineering, and Alchemy are all becoming more and more worthless. This is just a personal opinion, and if you can find something in those that makes them truly awesome, on the level of Jewelcrafting and Alchemy, then I'd be more than happy to see it. Alchemy used to have Primal Might transmutes, but now all the good craftable items require Primal Nethers and Vortices (the plural of vortex, in case you're wondering). Once again, Blizzard favors the many and shuns the few.
Yes, every class and every spec will always complain about someone else being overpowered and them being underpowered. Everyone will, because everyone has a voice. However, if I say, "Pencils are made from human flesh," that doesn't make it true. While it IS up to Blizzard to balance these classes, I severly doubt their ability to. Once again, give to the many, take from the few.
Now, seeing as how the game is slowly turning into a more and more casual friendly game, the achievements within it are becoming more and more worthless. Remember when "High Warlord" meant something? Pre-BC, how about when you said "Ding, 60!"? Even hitting 70 is a minor accomplishment now. Getting the "Champion of the Naaru" titles is a mediocre success, at best. When I see "Hand of A'dal" next to a character's name, I get a minor, "Huh, neat." No longer that "Wow! Where do I get that?"
I miss that. I miss being enthralled by what was once an incredible game.
Now, the rest of this post is purely me spouting off, so if you want to, skip it.
I think that, while the game started off good, its overwhelming success is a fluke. Would this game have succeeded as well as it has if it didn't have the Warcraft name on it? Doubtful.
As more and more of the long term WoW players get the shaft, I can only wonder how long it will be until all of the tanks and healers jump ship. I severly doubt the ability of the "extremely casual, DPS only" player to level and play either of those two roles. Seems to me that most of the "casual" players are just pressing the same series of buttons they've been pushing since they started the character. I've been in more than one PUG where the hunter didn't trap, didn't misdirect, didn't turn off growl, or didn't bring ammunition. How many PUGs where the warlock didn't bring soul shards? Or didn't summon the succubus after his Seduce target had been named, over and over in Party Chat?
Meh, I could complain a bit more, but the overwhelming response is still likely to be one of the following:
"If you're complaining so much, why do you still play?"
"WoW is never going to die, so stop whining."
"Just wait for AoC/WAR/???, it will be the end of WoW."
"It's just YOUR opinion, so it doesn't matter."
Absolutely. To Blizz, people that run around screaming "it's unfair!" are like headless chickens, running around. It may make them feel better but Blizz knows whatever change they make, it'll just upset someone else. People want the game to be perfect which is an impossible goal. If I ever see a game where everything is balanced and there's only a few people grumbling, even if it has stick figure graphics and no background story at all, I'll play it. Just to experience something that never existed before, lol!
I've made this point before and I'll make it again, the forums themselves are proof that the game IS balanced. How's that you say? Go read the class forums. On EVERY SINGLE ONE you will find people complaining that THEIR class is underpowered. EVERY SINGLE ONE!! If that's not balance then I don't know what is.
LMAO! Nice post, and I would have to say you are right about every forums complaining their class is underpowered so in this term I would have to say your absolutely correct about the balance.
Out of every 100 men, 10 should not be there,
80 are nothing but targets, 9 are the real fighters.
Ah, but one, ONE of them is a warrior,
and he will bring the others home.
-Heraclitus 500BC
Hehe, I'm reading this while flying my alt from Ruth'eran Village to Dustwalov Marsh...
"On a side note, and more of a personal thing that irritates me about WoW, when is Blizzard going to make a World General Channel so we can use Trade for selling?"
They already had a world LFG channel and all it turned out to be was the trade channel BS but across all the zones.
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
ExactlyWoW can not keep the fun part for gamers that look at mmos as long term gameplay - played over years developing character. And that leaves us with just very poor RPG game. Games like EQ have players that STILL are having fun on single character developing it - and are creating a whole story behind it.
I play MMORPGs in certain ways in that I play it with one character - and enljoy the most of the content. But while Im at it Im also making a long term story for that character. I try to respect ppl and build up positive picture of my character but if something goes wrong in that sence then its my job to fix it. Thats how I have played in WoW for the last 3 years - and in MMOs past 9. That is longterm comittment to a charcter and the RPG part is about lonterm relationship - not with just one ro two ppl but with whole server.
But hey - WoW cant support this kinda gameplay. THey are unable to create continued storyline or class and spec balance for it. And thats why the longterm players are looking elsewhere. Those that have the PC for going Conan will look for longerm Raiding in simualre PVE content as WoW has. And building up guilds to create their own sieges. Again longterm progress - not over weeks but months and years. Others will go to WAR and enjoy diffrent kinda real PVP system that is probably the best out there atm.
SO.. its about what ppl are after. Fun can last for 10 days or it can last for 10 years. But like you said and we have stated here many times before. WoW was never about anything than the short term. That stands for short term progress and short term friendships with other ppl online (at least in the game) cause its not stable enough for anything longerm. Good or bad ? Well... that depends what you are after. And for the MMORPG part it seems like its not so great if you look at the raiting WOW is getting on this website. But in terms of making money and building a game on luring new ppl in Blizzard are doing great. Thats exactly why we are now seeing items of same quality on ppl that have played 2-3 months and those that have played for 2-3 years.
I used to play all my characters in this way.. UNTIL.. SWG and its NGE. That was the turning point for me as far as playing my characters long term and improving them and their image. Why did the NGE change this? Well after 3 years dedicated to a character it was flushed down the shitter with no respect at all to a dedicated SWG player.
That being said, I enjoy the way WoW has done things with xp, quests because now I can play as many classes as I want, try classes I wouldnt of tried before and to my suprise I found a couple I enjoy very much that I otherwise wouldnt of even looked at being dedicated to one toon.
I play WoW first of all because I enjoy it, second because of limited time having a job and family and because of the fact that I dont have to be dedicated to it. I dont raid, as a matter of fact I have never done any raid in WoW. Would I like to? Of course, but with my game times it just isnt possible. But because of them lowering things I do run 5 mans and heroics if at all possible but I dont run them for gear I run them for fun.
WoW is WoW, some like it some dont, but no one forced anyone to play it or try it out, they did that themselves. I have fun playing and because of its mechanics I can leave the game for a year and come back and still enjoy myself knowing that there are mechanics there that give me the chance to catch up with friends and do things.
Out of every 100 men, 10 should not be there,
80 are nothing but targets, 9 are the real fighters.
Ah, but one, ONE of them is a warrior,
and he will bring the others home.
-Heraclitus 500BC
To answer Enforcer71 - TBH I dont know how to play any other way
I mean - To me this is what MMORPG is. This is what many of the old timers feel about Muds and MMOs. This is how the current devs of wow played their MMO. Currently WoW is no longer RPG -Its a game where your character doesn't matter. In a sence the new Arena tournament system proves that.
SWG failed and destroyed their repititon on one expansion. Blizzard is going down the exact same road. Selling themselfs for quick bucks while longterm it will lead to nothing. Thats probably why the real devs left and Blizzard is now making another MMORPG game. I will in the next few days give you guys abit of an insight into current devs and what they stand for. You might be surprised who they are.... and it also might explain few things.
There are ppl that take their MMORPGs seriously. Just wait and see some of what current devs said few years ago and got banned from their MMO when they went over the line
They took it seriously as players - But also made some comments that are still hunting them to this day.
To the op. Well - I played a healing class and I desided to quit on the eve of patch 2.4 cause even as a healer I could see that my spec was subpar to all other healing classes. And tbh Im not paying for that. If 9 dps classes are LFG - then wonder LFG as a gimped healer
- No that doesn't make me a bad player saying that. Point is that good players dont play gimped classes or specs. Cause good players know whats good and whats bad. We are looking for the best PVP arena players atm and lets see what classes they are picking. - Remember - they are not lvling their characters or playing that for 3 years tho. Meaning - No RPG part.
But maybe some ppl should consider this abit. Personally I desided in the start of TBC to let the destiny deside if I would stay Holy or go Prot. Destiny in like what would be dropping for me while grouping up with m8ts and what spec my m8s needed me to play. I started out as prot. Did all dungeons to 65 as tank. Thing was... I got more healing plate items than Tanking ones. Thing was - I needed to go healing cause most were specing for dmg. So back to holy I went - using my tier 2 gear mostly to solo lvl (tier 3 and current healing gear did not have dmg). And guess what. Then we came to Karazhan ... Yes with full healing set for healing paladin waiting. My destiny was desided by need and drops. I played my part in the RPG. But... just to find out that in next 4 patches - both my abilites and items where nerfed. That has nothing to do with RPG. And neither had it anything to do with the dev's so called beloved "balance"
And the same goes for arena. It has nothing to do with RPG. Its a way to give out items in unbalanced PVP content with minimum amount of effort. And not only that - it has been exploid multiple times to gain free items.
You want fair and clear rules in the MMO your playing. But thats not WoW. Sorry m8- I will not be taking part in WOTLK - not as needed gimped healer for those LFG dpsers. Cause there is a limit to the abuse ppl should be paying for. But who knows.. maybe the devs will make new "hybrid" that will solve the healing problems.... nope... we needed another dps and tank class... Ye right
The current leading dev's of WOW are incompitent in doing their job. I will be posting here next few days with examples of that. And if there are ppl here claiming those "incompitent" devs created WoW in the first place? Nope - not true. Those devs have left the Blizzard team. They are no longer part of the game. They would not have accepted a MMORPG beeing taking into 2 man PVP game. And I know that for fact.
Stay tuned
Paladin Patch notes for 2.4:
Paladins
* Avenger's Shield, Holy Shield and Holy Shock: Casting lower ranks of these spells is now properly penalized like other healing and damage effects.
* Divine Illumination: The mana energize from this talent no longer has a chance to set off other triggered effects.
* Holy Shield and Holy Shock: Casting lower ranks of these spells is now properly penalized like other healing and damage effects.
* Judgment of the Crusader: It is no longer possible to have icons for two different ranks of Judgment of the Crusader appear at the same time when judged by multiple Paladins.
* Judgment of Wisdom: Some abilities (such as Frostbolt) were not triggering the mana energize effect from this spell. This has now been fixed.
I don't see anything there which would cause you so much bother. Holy Paladins are not "gimped healers", not in the slightest.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...