well yea darkfall inst going to do a pre order either. dark and light did also dnl had a time limti on it darkfall wont
At least Dark & Light did something that I doubt we'll see DFO ever do. They actually launched the MMO. Sorry to say it, D&L may have been crooks, but at least they had the nads to show the world what they had, good or bad. Going forward, DFO should just go into a total media blackout until they actually have something. Dev journal #25 is a joke and waste of web space.
I love how you feel like your the next nostradamus. If you feel like the newest dev journal is crap then so be it but then again since you don't believe its coming out then I guess it doesnt really matter much what you think.
well yea darkfall inst going to do a pre order either. dark and light did also dnl had a time limti on it darkfall wont
At least Dark & Light did something that I doubt we'll see DFO ever do. They actually launched the MMO. Sorry to say it, D&L may have been crooks, but at least they had the nads to show the world what they had, good or bad. Going forward, DFO should just go into a total media blackout until they actually have something. Dev journal #25 is a joke and waste of web space.
I love how you feel like your the next nostradamus. If you feel like the newest dev journal is crap then so be it but then again since you don't believe its coming out then I guess it doesnt really matter much what you think.
You are missing my entire point. Trust me, I 100% hate the D&L company because they are two-bit crooks. Make no mistake about it. What anyone with a 1/2 a brain can realize is that D&L did what DFO devs are afraid to do. If DFO was as good as they have claimed over and over, why are they holding back and relying on AI beta testing? They repeatedly said that on at least TWO occasions they were ready to launch the game. If that was the case, why are they holding back? With Mortal Online on the horizon, DFO needs to show their cards or risk being a vaporware footnote in the MMORPG history books.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
well yea darkfall inst going to do a pre order either. dark and light did also dnl had a time limti on it darkfall wont
At least Dark & Light did something that I doubt we'll see DFO ever do. They actually launched the MMO. Sorry to say it, D&L may have been crooks, but at least they had the nads to show the world what they had, good or bad. Going forward, DFO should just go into a total media blackout until they actually have something. Dev journal #25 is a joke and waste of web space.
I love how you feel like your the next nostradamus. If you feel like the newest dev journal is crap then so be it but then again since you don't believe its coming out then I guess it doesnt really matter much what you think.
You are missing my entire point. Trust me, I 100% hate the D&L company because they are two-bit crooks. Make no mistake about it. What anyone with a 1/2 a brain can realize is that D&L did what DFO devs are afraid to do. If DFO was as good as they have claimed over and over, why are they holding back and relying on AI beta testing? They repeatedly said that on at least TWO occasions they were ready to launch the game. If that was the case, why are they holding back? With Mortal Online on the horizon, DFO needs to show their cards or risk being a vaporware footnote in the MMORPG history books.
I'll answer that with this question. What can a person do better than AI? Not much and it wouldnt be that much more of an improvement since they already have on-site testers. When players "test" it its usually no more than them just screwing around which is not what their asking for. Their doing things like going over terrain as to make sure you don't fall through, going through quests and then the same quests in a different line up to make sure there isnt a bug, and other such things that people wouldn't want to do and (which we both know) would cause DF some flak because they said they want the game to be near completion/polished stage before they put this into open beta.
two? the last one I remember was that content-wise they we're at the stage where they would open beta. Of course I'm probably just forgetting something.
As for Mortal Online...well I don't know enough to say anything about it
well yea darkfall inst going to do a pre order either. dark and light did also dnl had a time limti on it darkfall wont
At least Dark & Light did something that I doubt we'll see DFO ever do. They actually launched the MMO. Sorry to say it, D&L may have been crooks, but at least they had the nads to show the world what they had, good or bad. Going forward, DFO should just go into a total media blackout until they actually have something. Dev journal #25 is a joke and waste of web space.
I love how you feel like your the next nostradamus. If you feel like the newest dev journal is crap then so be it but then again since you don't believe its coming out then I guess it doesnt really matter much what you think.
You are missing my entire point. Trust me, I 100% hate the D&L company because they are two-bit crooks. Make no mistake about it. What anyone with a 1/2 a brain can realize is that D&L did what DFO devs are afraid to do. If DFO was as good as they have claimed over and over, why are they holding back and relying on AI beta testing? They repeatedly said that on at least TWO occasions they were ready to launch the game. If that was the case, why are they holding back? With Mortal Online on the horizon, DFO needs to show their cards or risk being a vaporware footnote in the MMORPG history books.
I don't think they are holding back actually. According to Tasos, Darkfall is feature complete and is being beta tested by professional testers. Once it goes into 'playtesting' (notice he calls it playtesting and not open beta testing ) it will be pretty much the release version without huge ammounts of bugs and missing or unfinished content afflicted upon the poor beta testers (like AoC or WAR for instance).
By the sound of it the 'playtesting' phase could be close so everything will be 'put on the table' then.
well yea darkfall inst going to do a pre order either. dark and light did also dnl had a time limti on it darkfall wont
At least Dark & Light did something that I doubt we'll see DFO ever do. They actually launched the MMO. Sorry to say it, D&L may have been crooks, but at least they had the nads to show the world what they had, good or bad. Going forward, DFO should just go into a total media blackout until they actually have something. Dev journal #25 is a joke and waste of web space.
I love how you feel like your the next nostradamus. If you feel like the newest dev journal is crap then so be it but then again since you don't believe its coming out then I guess it doesnt really matter much what you think.
You are missing my entire point. Trust me, I 100% hate the D&L company because they are two-bit crooks. Make no mistake about it. What anyone with a 1/2 a brain can realize is that D&L did what DFO devs are afraid to do. If DFO was as good as they have claimed over and over, why are they holding back and relying on AI beta testing? They repeatedly said that on at least TWO occasions they were ready to launch the game. If that was the case, why are they holding back? With Mortal Online on the horizon, DFO needs to show their cards or risk being a vaporware footnote in the MMORPG history books.
I don't think they are holding back actually. According to Tasos, Darkfall is feature complete and is being beta tested by professional testers. Once it goes into 'playtesting' (notice he calls it playtesting and not open beta testing ) it will be pretty much the release version without huge ammounts of bugs and missing or unfinished content afflicted upon the poor beta testers (like AoC or WAR for instance).
By the sound of it the 'playtesting' phase could be close so everything will be 'put on the table' then.
Newsflash, all games are tested before release by professional testers, its nothing new. You think aoc and warhammer arnt being tested by mythics and funcoms own internal testers? The difference is both those games have had to be delayed because of the huge feedback they have recieved from beta testers they have invited into the closed beta. Without all those testers invited into the beta both games would have released last year and flopped hardcore.
Aventurine are just taking the piss out of peopels intelligence and contructively putting worlds together to make you think the games is ready or even in development.
I'll answer that with this question. What can a person do better than AI? Not much and it wouldnt be that much more of an improvement since they already have on-site testers. When players "test" it its usually no more than them just screwing around which is not what their asking for. Their doing things like going over terrain as to make sure you don't fall through, going through quests and then the same quests in a different line up to make sure there isnt a bug, and other such things that people wouldn't want to do and (which we both know) would cause DF some flak because they said they want the game to be near completion/polished stage before they put this into open beta.
two? the last one I remember was that content-wise they we're at the stage where they would open beta. Of course I'm probably just forgetting something. As for Mortal Online...well I don't know enough to say anything about it
What can a person do better than an AI? Quite a lot really since in terms of real intelligence rather than just performing repetetive tasks, even George Bush makes the best AIs today look stupid.
Sure, you can program an AI to mindlessly walk up and down the terrain looking for glitches in solid object definition or get them to knock the electrons out of each other using randomised attack combinations, but only humans are best at finding those unforseen loopholes in the rules commonly know as exploits. Also there are the issues that are purely based on social interaction. Can an AI simulate price rigging on valuable items, both farmed & trade-skilled?
The other things that AIs can't really subsitute for is the sheer variety of hardware configurations that real human beta-testers would use & speaking as an 8800 graphics card owner, I am more familar with software vs hardware problems than I would like.
I would defintely be interested in trying the game, but the claims about substituting a combination of professional beta-testers & AIs sound highly suspicious to me.
If you can't "Have your cake & eat it too", then how can "The proof of the pudding be in the eating"?
well yea darkfall inst going to do a pre order either. dark and light did also dnl had a time limti on it darkfall wont
At least Dark & Light did something that I doubt we'll see DFO ever do. They actually launched the MMO. Sorry to say it, D&L may have been crooks, but at least they had the nads to show the world what they had, good or bad. Going forward, DFO should just go into a total media blackout until they actually have something. Dev journal #25 is a joke and waste of web space.
I love how you feel like your the next nostradamus. If you feel like the newest dev journal is crap then so be it but then again since you don't believe its coming out then I guess it doesnt really matter much what you think.
You are missing my entire point. Trust me, I 100% hate the D&L company because they are two-bit crooks. Make no mistake about it. What anyone with a 1/2 a brain can realize is that D&L did what DFO devs are afraid to do. If DFO was as good as they have claimed over and over, why are they holding back and relying on AI beta testing? They repeatedly said that on at least TWO occasions they were ready to launch the game. If that was the case, why are they holding back? With Mortal Online on the horizon, DFO needs to show their cards or risk being a vaporware footnote in the MMORPG history books.
I don't think they are holding back actually. According to Tasos, Darkfall is feature complete and is being beta tested by professional testers. Once it goes into 'playtesting' (notice he calls it playtesting and not open beta testing ) it will be pretty much the release version without huge ammounts of bugs and missing or unfinished content afflicted upon the poor beta testers (like AoC or WAR for instance).
By the sound of it the 'playtesting' phase could be close so everything will be 'put on the table' then.
Newsflash, all games are tested before release by professional testers, its nothing new. You think aoc and warhammer arnt being tested by mythics and funcoms own internal testers? The difference is both those games have had to be delayed because of the huge feedback they have recieved from beta testers they have invited into the closed beta. Without all those testers invited into the beta both games would have released last year and flopped hardcore.
That's because both games entered open beta in a far-from-finished state. What did the developers think would happen?
The difference with Darkfall is that the devs will push out a finished game for people to playtest. When was the last time any mmorpg did THAT?!?!
I am curious to know, what makes Mortal Online better then Darkfall? I'm not taking any side here, but clearly I feel the DFO features promise more, and as long as Mortal Online is in development there's always a chance it won't release. Why do people trust them instead of Aventurine?
I am curious to know, what makes Mortal Online better then Darkfall? I'm not taking any side here, but clearly I feel the DFO features promise more, and as long as Mortal Online is in development there's always a chance it won't release. Why do people trust them instead of Aventurine?
Main reason is that some individuals have as a hobby to piss on DFO. Theyre called DFO trolls and theres alot of them here.
Mortal Online is something good for the genre though. One more game with a potential.
I am curious to know, what makes Mortal Online better then Darkfall? I'm not taking any side here, but clearly I feel the DFO features promise more, and as long as Mortal Online is in development there's always a chance it won't release. Why do people trust them instead of Aventurine?
Main reason is that some individuals have as a hobby to piss on DFO. Theyre called DFO trolls and theres alot of them here.
Mortal Online is something good for the genre though. One more game with a potential.
Still tickles me, that Darkfall fans think everything can be put into two nicely seperated groups. To them either you follow Darkfall blinding, meaning you are a "good" person. Then there is the other side. The people who question Darkfall in even the smallest ways are "bad", because we choose to not be sheep. Hence we are branded "bad", and called "trolls". Sadly the world isn't as white and black as it's painted by Darkfall fans.
Do people troll Darkfall? Yes, but it would seem that according the rules, of the people here that follow the game blindly. If you ask an intelligent question, that they find unfavorable. You are also a "troll". If you ask a question they can't answer. You are also a "troll"
@Novaire - I think you are reading too much into post about Mortal Online. Yes, people are interested in it. There are only a handful of people though, that are saying "forget Darkfall I'm looking at Mortal Online." It's just peeking peoples interest because A) Sandbox style, Open PvP and C) It's using the Unreal 3 Engine. Will be interesting to see if it really does come out in 2009.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
well yea darkfall inst going to do a pre order either. dark and light did also dnl had a time limti on it darkfall wont
At least Dark & Light did something that I doubt we'll see DFO ever do. They actually launched the MMO. Sorry to say it, D&L may have been crooks, but at least they had the nads to show the world what they had, good or bad. Going forward, DFO should just go into a total media blackout until they actually have something. Dev journal #25 is a joke and waste of web space.
I love how you feel like your the next nostradamus. If you feel like the newest dev journal is crap then so be it but then again since you don't believe its coming out then I guess it doesnt really matter much what you think.
You are missing my entire point. Trust me, I 100% hate the D&L company because they are two-bit crooks. Make no mistake about it. What anyone with a 1/2 a brain can realize is that D&L did what DFO devs are afraid to do. If DFO was as good as they have claimed over and over, why are they holding back and relying on AI beta testing? They repeatedly said that on at least TWO occasions they were ready to launch the game. If that was the case, why are they holding back? With Mortal Online on the horizon, DFO needs to show their cards or risk being a vaporware footnote in the MMORPG history books.
I'll answer that with this question. What can a person do better than AI? Not much and it wouldnt be that much more of an improvement since they already have on-site testers. When players "test" it its usually no more than them just screwing around which is not what their asking for. Their doing things like going over terrain as to make sure you don't fall through, going through quests and then the same quests in a different line up to make sure there isnt a bug, and other such things that people wouldn't want to do and (which we both know) would cause DF some flak because they said they want the game to be near completion/polished stage before they put this into open beta.
two? the last one I remember was that content-wise they we're at the stage where they would open beta. Of course I'm probably just forgetting something.
As for Mortal Online...well I don't know enough to say anything about it
When it comes to beta testing? Easy! Humans look for creative ways to break the game. AI doesn't do that. You want as many people in a beta test intentionally trying to break as much of the game in beta as possible. This is how exploits are found and fixed before release. AI doesn't do that. Also, AI doesn't tell you if you game is fun or not. Real gamers do.
Don't try to spin AI as a positive like DFO has done because AI bots don't buy games, people do. If a dev can't trust us to help them make a better game, the can go to hell. I'll gladly give my money to a company who cares about my opinion and values my input.
I hope Aventurine enjoys all the subscriptions those AI bots buy in 2020 when they finally release DFO.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
I am curious to know, what makes Mortal Online better then Darkfall? I'm not taking any side here, but clearly I feel the DFO features promise more, and as long as Mortal Online is in development there's always a chance it won't release. Why do people trust them instead of Aventurine?
Experience, reliability, dependability and the fact they are a publically traded company instead of Aventurine's long history of broken promises of betas, cancellations, GUILD beta tests, cancellations, etc. Aventurine's track record is a mine field of smoke, mirrors, and deception.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
I think itsa good thing thay uses the AI and pro testers. If they would take amateur beta testers those would be 90% WoW players and not much of that feedback would be of any use for the DF bevelopers.
We see here, and on the official DF forum that everyday some people that dont understand sandbox MMOs want to change it into a linear gameplay without playerfreedom. So its better the 10% of real sandbox players to the playertesting later : )
I think itsa good thing thay uses the AI and pro testers. If they would take amateur beta testers those would be 90% WoW players and not much of that feedback would be of any use for the DF bevelopers. We see here, and on the official DF forum that everyday some people that dont understand sandbox MMOs want to change it into a linear gameplay without playerfreedom. So its better the 10% of real sandbox players to the playertesting later : )
I am curious to know, what makes Mortal Online better then Darkfall? I'm not taking any side here, but clearly I feel the DFO features promise more, and as long as Mortal Online is in development there's always a chance it won't release. Why do people trust them instead of Aventurine?
Not that I'm taking sides here but....
Darkfall has been out in the public Eye since 2002 and has had some failed Beta launches and a lack of information about the game itself [it has had some screenshots and videos but not much else]. In the past Adventurine has had problems getting a publisher till recently. The Devs have put out regular dev blogs that unfortunately contain very Little truly new information about the game itself. Over time its reputation has been damaged and it looks like a tired old entity due to the years its been in the public eye
Mortal online has JUST been officially announced, and like any new game that's announced will have higher expectations . It doesnt yet have ANY screenshots and only one movie so far but right now it has no multiple failed betas like Darkfall and it does have a interesting range of features to it that does compete at some level with what Darkfall is promising.
So basically i guess the reason those people are getting more exited over Mortal Online rather than Darkfall is because its new its reputation is untarnished and although it doesnt have the overwhelming amount of features Darkfall has it is nether-less close in some aspect to what Darfall offers and its a sandbox game as well [i have to say i like how your characters chosen god affects how you do stuff and how the more people worship that god the more powerful that effect on your character gets].
In the end tho isn't it a good thing that more 'Innovative' and daring game ideas like Darkfall are coming out?
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
I am curious to know, what makes Mortal Online better then Darkfall? I'm not taking any side here, but clearly I feel the DFO features promise more, and as long as Mortal Online is in development there's always a chance it won't release. Why do people trust them instead of Aventurine?
Not that I'm taking sides here but....
Darkfall has been out in the public Eye since 2002 and has had some failed Beta launches and a lack of information about the game itself [it has had some screenshots and videos but not much else]. In the past Adventurine has had problems getting a publisher till recently. The Devs have put out regular dev blogs that unfortunately contain very Little truly new information about the game itself. Over time its reputation has been damaged and it looks like a tired old entity due to the years its been in the public eye
Mortal online has JUST been officially announced, and like any new game that's announced will have higher expectations . It doesnt yet have ANY screenshots and only one movie so far but right now it has no multiple failed betas like Darkfall and it does have a interesting range of features to it that does compete at some level with what Darkfall is promising.
So basically i guess the reason those people are getting more exited over Mortal Online rather than Darkfall is because its new its reputation is untarnished and although it doesnt have the overwhelming amount of features Darkfall has it is nether-less close in some aspect to what Darfall offers and its a sandbox game as well [i have to say i like how your characters chosen god affects how you do stuff and how the more people worship that god the more powerful that effect on your character gets].
In the end tho isn't it a good thing that more 'Innovative' and daring game ideas like Darkfall are coming out?
Yes, it is, I love that more sandbox games are coming out, and that small gaming companies take chances. Just found it a bit strange that two days after the first information about Mortal Online, people start coming with ''Darkfall is domed forever'' threads . When in fact, MO is just like DFO, a video and a forum, just that DFO has been around longer. But I understand what you mean, although I am hopeful that DFO will come out, and if it doesn't, too bad.
When it comes to beta testing? Easy! Humans look for creative ways to break the game. AI doesn't do that. You want as many people in a beta test intentionally trying to break as much of the game in beta as possible. This is how exploits are found and fixed before release. AI doesn't do that. Also, AI doesn't tell you if you game is fun or not. Real gamers do. Don't try to spin AI as a positive like DFO has done because AI bots don't buy games, people do. If a dev can't trust us to help them make a better game, the can go to hell. I'll gladly give my money to a company who cares about my opinion and values my input. I hope Aventurine enjoys all the subscriptions those AI bots buy in 2020 when they finally release DFO.
Yet they have people trying to find bugs and exploits. Also most people don't look for bugs if one does its usually an accident but they don't want the game to be crippled with tons of bugs and exploits like other games do. Your right AI doesn't tell you if its fun or not but I think the on-site testers and the people that get into beta might. They've said that some features could be changed if depending upon the community feedback.
No one said AI bought games but don't try and spin it to say AI is bad because the AI in DF is similar to a player in the way that it does walk and cross terrain it does attack other monsters it also builds cities so to try and make it seem like AI wouldn't be good testers for such tedious things than I would say you seriously need to rethink that.
The devs DO include the community. They do check the forums and they're willing to change some features depending on the feedback of the community.
If you feel like making more crap up than please do as it is quite amusing. I would have thought that you would have read up more on DF while I was gone.
I am curious to know, what makes Mortal Online better then Darkfall? I'm not taking any side here, but clearly I feel the DFO features promise more, and as long as Mortal Online is in development there's always a chance it won't release. Why do people trust them instead of Aventurine?
Experience, reliability, dependability and the fact they are a publically traded company instead of Aventurine's long history of broken promises of betas, cancellations, GUILD beta tests, cancellations, etc. Aventurine's track record is a mine field of smoke, mirrors, and deception.
You do realize that you have no backing to any of those three claims.
You see Aventurine announced beta once and didn't go through on the beta applications. Then Rasorwax missed one. So if you add that up its 3 in all but is it as bad as AoC? nope.
A few missed beta dates must = smoke, mirrors, and deception. Describe to me what AoC is going through?
When it comes to beta testing? Easy! Humans look for creative ways to break the game. AI doesn't do that. You want as many people in a beta test intentionally trying to break as much of the game in beta as possible. This is how exploits are found and fixed before release. AI doesn't do that. Also, AI doesn't tell you if you game is fun or not. Real gamers do. Don't try to spin AI as a positive like DFO has done because AI bots don't buy games, people do. If a dev can't trust us to help them make a better game, the can go to hell. I'll gladly give my money to a company who cares about my opinion and values my input. I hope Aventurine enjoys all the subscriptions those AI bots buy in 2020 when they finally release DFO.
Yet they have people trying to find bugs and exploits. Also most people don't look for bugs if one does its usually an accident but they don't want the game to be crippled with tons of bugs and exploits like other games do. Your right AI doesn't tell you if its fun or not but I think the on-site testers and the people that get into beta might. They've said that some features could be changed if depending upon the community feedback.
No one said AI bought games but don't try and spin it to say AI is bad because the AI in DF is similar to a player in the way that it does walk and cross terrain it does attack other monsters it also builds cities so to try and make it seem like AI wouldn't be good testers for such tedious things than I would say you seriously need to rethink that.
The devs DO include the community. They do check the forums and they're willing to change some features depending on the feedback of the community.
If you feel like making more crap up than please do as it is quite amusing. I would have thought that you would have read up more on DF while I was gone.
How are you so up on what DFO does and doesn't have in-game? How are you so sure of what their AI is doing in-game? Are you in beta and breaking an NDA? I'm not the one making anything up. YOU are the one making a lot of stuff up making all of these "claims" about DFO.
Bottom line is, after seven years of development, DFO is nothing more than vaporware. There is ZERO proof that this game is real. EVERY single thing they have shown the community to-date can be done via mock-up. They won't go to E3. They won't go to DragonCon. They won't go to any gaming convention to show the world their game. Then people like you say and "they won't because the press will damage their game". The only thing that damages a games chances is when a developer writes checks they can't cash and their "golden egg" turns out to be a turd.
Welcome back, and please, explain yourself.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
I am curious to know, what makes Mortal Online better then Darkfall? I'm not taking any side here, but clearly I feel the DFO features promise more, and as long as Mortal Online is in development there's always a chance it won't release. Why do people trust them instead of Aventurine?
Experience, reliability, dependability and the fact they are a publically traded company instead of Aventurine's long history of broken promises of betas, cancellations, GUILD beta tests, cancellations, etc. Aventurine's track record is a mine field of smoke, mirrors, and deception.
From what I understand Mortal Online is being made by Starvault, which is a newly started Swedish company, so how would you know if they are good or bad?
I am curious to know, what makes Mortal Online better then Darkfall? I'm not taking any side here, but clearly I feel the DFO features promise more, and as long as Mortal Online is in development there's always a chance it won't release. Why do people trust them instead of Aventurine?
Experience, reliability, dependability and the fact they are a publically traded company instead of Aventurine's long history of broken promises of betas, cancellations, GUILD beta tests, cancellations, etc. Aventurine's track record is a mine field of smoke, mirrors, and deception.
From what I understand Mortal Online is being made by Starvault, which is a newly started Swedish company, so how would you know if they are good or bad?
Because, if you look up the names on the website who founded the company, they have a solid reputation in the MMORPG field. They are experienced, reliable, and dependable. That alone sets them apart from Aventurine. This is no "hobby" to them. And besides, they are not hiding from the community unlike some companies we know.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
When it comes to beta testing? Easy! Humans look for creative ways to break the game. AI doesn't do that. You want as many people in a beta test intentionally trying to break as much of the game in beta as possible. This is how exploits are found and fixed before release. AI doesn't do that. Also, AI doesn't tell you if you game is fun or not. Real gamers do. Don't try to spin AI as a positive like DFO has done because AI bots don't buy games, people do. If a dev can't trust us to help them make a better game, the can go to hell. I'll gladly give my money to a company who cares about my opinion and values my input. I hope Aventurine enjoys all the subscriptions those AI bots buy in 2020 when they finally release DFO.
Yet they have people trying to find bugs and exploits. Also most people don't look for bugs if one does its usually an accident but they don't want the game to be crippled with tons of bugs and exploits like other games do. Your right AI doesn't tell you if its fun or not but I think the on-site testers and the people that get into beta might. They've said that some features could be changed if depending upon the community feedback.
No one said AI bought games but don't try and spin it to say AI is bad because the AI in DF is similar to a player in the way that it does walk and cross terrain it does attack other monsters it also builds cities so to try and make it seem like AI wouldn't be good testers for such tedious things than I would say you seriously need to rethink that.
The devs DO include the community. They do check the forums and they're willing to change some features depending on the feedback of the community.
If you feel like making more crap up than please do as it is quite amusing. I would have thought that you would have read up more on DF while I was gone.
How are you so up on what DFO does and doesn't have in-game? How are you so sure of what their AI is doing in-game? Are you in beta and breaking an NDA? I'm not the one making anything up. YOU are the one making a lot of stuff up making all of these "claims" about DFO.
Oh I'm sorry if I actually read up on the game that I argue about. Perhaps you should do the same. Yes saying things like "The devs doesn't listen to the community" is complete crap since they did even make a prompted debate about SRS v SCS.
Bottom line is, after seven years of development, DFO is nothing more than vaporware. There is ZERO proof that this game is real. EVERY single thing they have shown the community to-date can be done via mock-up. They won't go to E3. They won't go to DragonCon. They won't go to any gaming convention to show the world their game. Then people like you say and "they won't because the press will damage their game". The only thing that damages a games chances is when a developer writes checks they can't cash and their "golden egg" turns out to be a turd.
No shannia. There is proof but YOU don't believe. I can't answer why they didnt go to those conventions but tell me this does every game developer go to E3 and such? If they don't all go then should it be such suspicion if one more doesnt go?
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Because, if you look up the names on the website who founded the company, they have a solid reputation in the MMORPG field. They are experienced, reliable, and dependable. That alone sets them apart from Aventurine. This is no "hobby" to them. And besides, they are not hiding from the community unlike some companies we know.
Hiding from the community? Quite the mind reader are we? Lets say something like that over something more plausible like... idk working? so its a hobby now?
What the hell are you talking about? I never said, "The devs doesn't listen to the community".
That was just a summary of what you said but now that you bring it up I believe that I may have misread and I apologize if that wasn't what you meant by it.
Comments
At least Dark & Light did something that I doubt we'll see DFO ever do. They actually launched the MMO. Sorry to say it, D&L may have been crooks, but at least they had the nads to show the world what they had, good or bad. Going forward, DFO should just go into a total media blackout until they actually have something. Dev journal #25 is a joke and waste of web space.
I love how you feel like your the next nostradamus. If you feel like the newest dev journal is crap then so be it but then again since you don't believe its coming out then I guess it doesnt really matter much what you think.
At least Dark & Light did something that I doubt we'll see DFO ever do. They actually launched the MMO. Sorry to say it, D&L may have been crooks, but at least they had the nads to show the world what they had, good or bad. Going forward, DFO should just go into a total media blackout until they actually have something. Dev journal #25 is a joke and waste of web space.
I love how you feel like your the next nostradamus. If you feel like the newest dev journal is crap then so be it but then again since you don't believe its coming out then I guess it doesnt really matter much what you think.
You are missing my entire point. Trust me, I 100% hate the D&L company because they are two-bit crooks. Make no mistake about it. What anyone with a 1/2 a brain can realize is that D&L did what DFO devs are afraid to do. If DFO was as good as they have claimed over and over, why are they holding back and relying on AI beta testing? They repeatedly said that on at least TWO occasions they were ready to launch the game. If that was the case, why are they holding back? With Mortal Online on the horizon, DFO needs to show their cards or risk being a vaporware footnote in the MMORPG history books.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
At least Dark & Light did something that I doubt we'll see DFO ever do. They actually launched the MMO. Sorry to say it, D&L may have been crooks, but at least they had the nads to show the world what they had, good or bad. Going forward, DFO should just go into a total media blackout until they actually have something. Dev journal #25 is a joke and waste of web space.
I love how you feel like your the next nostradamus. If you feel like the newest dev journal is crap then so be it but then again since you don't believe its coming out then I guess it doesnt really matter much what you think.
You are missing my entire point. Trust me, I 100% hate the D&L company because they are two-bit crooks. Make no mistake about it. What anyone with a 1/2 a brain can realize is that D&L did what DFO devs are afraid to do. If DFO was as good as they have claimed over and over, why are they holding back and relying on AI beta testing? They repeatedly said that on at least TWO occasions they were ready to launch the game. If that was the case, why are they holding back? With Mortal Online on the horizon, DFO needs to show their cards or risk being a vaporware footnote in the MMORPG history books.
I'll answer that with this question. What can a person do better than AI? Not much and it wouldnt be that much more of an improvement since they already have on-site testers. When players "test" it its usually no more than them just screwing around which is not what their asking for. Their doing things like going over terrain as to make sure you don't fall through, going through quests and then the same quests in a different line up to make sure there isnt a bug, and other such things that people wouldn't want to do and (which we both know) would cause DF some flak because they said they want the game to be near completion/polished stage before they put this into open beta.
two? the last one I remember was that content-wise they we're at the stage where they would open beta. Of course I'm probably just forgetting something.
As for Mortal Online...well I don't know enough to say anything about it
At least Dark & Light did something that I doubt we'll see DFO ever do. They actually launched the MMO. Sorry to say it, D&L may have been crooks, but at least they had the nads to show the world what they had, good or bad. Going forward, DFO should just go into a total media blackout until they actually have something. Dev journal #25 is a joke and waste of web space.
I love how you feel like your the next nostradamus. If you feel like the newest dev journal is crap then so be it but then again since you don't believe its coming out then I guess it doesnt really matter much what you think.
You are missing my entire point. Trust me, I 100% hate the D&L company because they are two-bit crooks. Make no mistake about it. What anyone with a 1/2 a brain can realize is that D&L did what DFO devs are afraid to do. If DFO was as good as they have claimed over and over, why are they holding back and relying on AI beta testing? They repeatedly said that on at least TWO occasions they were ready to launch the game. If that was the case, why are they holding back? With Mortal Online on the horizon, DFO needs to show their cards or risk being a vaporware footnote in the MMORPG history books.
I don't think they are holding back actually. According to Tasos, Darkfall is feature complete and is being beta tested by professional testers. Once it goes into 'playtesting' (notice he calls it playtesting and not open beta testingBy the sound of it the 'playtesting' phase could be close so everything will be 'put on the table' then.
At least Dark & Light did something that I doubt we'll see DFO ever do. They actually launched the MMO. Sorry to say it, D&L may have been crooks, but at least they had the nads to show the world what they had, good or bad. Going forward, DFO should just go into a total media blackout until they actually have something. Dev journal #25 is a joke and waste of web space.
I love how you feel like your the next nostradamus. If you feel like the newest dev journal is crap then so be it but then again since you don't believe its coming out then I guess it doesnt really matter much what you think.
You are missing my entire point. Trust me, I 100% hate the D&L company because they are two-bit crooks. Make no mistake about it. What anyone with a 1/2 a brain can realize is that D&L did what DFO devs are afraid to do. If DFO was as good as they have claimed over and over, why are they holding back and relying on AI beta testing? They repeatedly said that on at least TWO occasions they were ready to launch the game. If that was the case, why are they holding back? With Mortal Online on the horizon, DFO needs to show their cards or risk being a vaporware footnote in the MMORPG history books.
I don't think they are holding back actually. According to Tasos, Darkfall is feature complete and is being beta tested by professional testers. Once it goes into 'playtesting' (notice he calls it playtesting and not open beta testingBy the sound of it the 'playtesting' phase could be close so everything will be 'put on the table' then.
Newsflash, all games are tested before release by professional testers, its nothing new. You think aoc and warhammer arnt being tested by mythics and funcoms own internal testers? The difference is both those games have had to be delayed because of the huge feedback they have recieved from beta testers they have invited into the closed beta. Without all those testers invited into the beta both games would have released last year and flopped hardcore.
Aventurine are just taking the piss out of peopels intelligence and contructively putting worlds together to make you think the games is ready or even in development.
What can a person do better than an AI? Quite a lot really since in terms of real intelligence rather than just performing repetetive tasks, even George Bush makes the best AIs today look stupid.
Sure, you can program an AI to mindlessly walk up and down the terrain looking for glitches in solid object definition or get them to knock the electrons out of each other using randomised attack combinations, but only humans are best at finding those unforseen loopholes in the rules commonly know as exploits. Also there are the issues that are purely based on social interaction. Can an AI simulate price rigging on valuable items, both farmed & trade-skilled?
The other things that AIs can't really subsitute for is the sheer variety of hardware configurations that real human beta-testers would use & speaking as an 8800 graphics card owner, I am more familar with software vs hardware problems than I would like.
I would defintely be interested in trying the game, but the claims about substituting a combination of professional beta-testers & AIs sound highly suspicious to me.
If you can't "Have your cake & eat it too", then how can "The proof of the pudding be in the eating"?
Take the Hecatomb? TCG What Is Your Doom? quiz.
At least Dark & Light did something that I doubt we'll see DFO ever do. They actually launched the MMO. Sorry to say it, D&L may have been crooks, but at least they had the nads to show the world what they had, good or bad. Going forward, DFO should just go into a total media blackout until they actually have something. Dev journal #25 is a joke and waste of web space.
I love how you feel like your the next nostradamus. If you feel like the newest dev journal is crap then so be it but then again since you don't believe its coming out then I guess it doesnt really matter much what you think.
You are missing my entire point. Trust me, I 100% hate the D&L company because they are two-bit crooks. Make no mistake about it. What anyone with a 1/2 a brain can realize is that D&L did what DFO devs are afraid to do. If DFO was as good as they have claimed over and over, why are they holding back and relying on AI beta testing? They repeatedly said that on at least TWO occasions they were ready to launch the game. If that was the case, why are they holding back? With Mortal Online on the horizon, DFO needs to show their cards or risk being a vaporware footnote in the MMORPG history books.
I don't think they are holding back actually. According to Tasos, Darkfall is feature complete and is being beta tested by professional testers. Once it goes into 'playtesting' (notice he calls it playtesting and not open beta testingBy the sound of it the 'playtesting' phase could be close so everything will be 'put on the table' then.
Newsflash, all games are tested before release by professional testers, its nothing new. You think aoc and warhammer arnt being tested by mythics and funcoms own internal testers? The difference is both those games have had to be delayed because of the huge feedback they have recieved from beta testers they have invited into the closed beta. Without all those testers invited into the beta both games would have released last year and flopped hardcore.
That's because both games entered open beta in a far-from-finished state. What did the developers think would happen?The difference with Darkfall is that the devs will push out a finished game for people to playtest. When was the last time any mmorpg did THAT?!?!
I am curious to know, what makes Mortal Online better then Darkfall? I'm not taking any side here, but clearly I feel the DFO features promise more, and as long as Mortal Online is in development there's always a chance it won't release. Why do people trust them instead of Aventurine?
Mortal Online is something good for the genre though. One more game with a potential.
Main reason is that some individuals have as a hobby to piss on DFO. Theyre called DFO trolls and theres alot of them here.Mortal Online is something good for the genre though. One more game with a potential.
Do people troll Darkfall? Yes, but it would seem that according the rules, of the people here that follow the game blindly. If you ask an intelligent question, that they find unfavorable. You are also a "troll". If you ask a question they can't answer. You are also a "troll"
@Novaire - I think you are reading too much into post about Mortal Online. Yes, people are interested in it. There are only a handful of people though, that are saying "forget Darkfall I'm looking at Mortal Online." It's just peeking peoples interest because A) Sandbox style,
Open PvP and C) It's using the Unreal 3 Engine. Will be interesting to see if it really does come out in 2009.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
At least Dark & Light did something that I doubt we'll see DFO ever do. They actually launched the MMO. Sorry to say it, D&L may have been crooks, but at least they had the nads to show the world what they had, good or bad. Going forward, DFO should just go into a total media blackout until they actually have something. Dev journal #25 is a joke and waste of web space.
I love how you feel like your the next nostradamus. If you feel like the newest dev journal is crap then so be it but then again since you don't believe its coming out then I guess it doesnt really matter much what you think.
You are missing my entire point. Trust me, I 100% hate the D&L company because they are two-bit crooks. Make no mistake about it. What anyone with a 1/2 a brain can realize is that D&L did what DFO devs are afraid to do. If DFO was as good as they have claimed over and over, why are they holding back and relying on AI beta testing? They repeatedly said that on at least TWO occasions they were ready to launch the game. If that was the case, why are they holding back? With Mortal Online on the horizon, DFO needs to show their cards or risk being a vaporware footnote in the MMORPG history books.
I'll answer that with this question. What can a person do better than AI? Not much and it wouldnt be that much more of an improvement since they already have on-site testers. When players "test" it its usually no more than them just screwing around which is not what their asking for. Their doing things like going over terrain as to make sure you don't fall through, going through quests and then the same quests in a different line up to make sure there isnt a bug, and other such things that people wouldn't want to do and (which we both know) would cause DF some flak because they said they want the game to be near completion/polished stage before they put this into open beta.
two? the last one I remember was that content-wise they we're at the stage where they would open beta. Of course I'm probably just forgetting something.
As for Mortal Online...well I don't know enough to say anything about it
When it comes to beta testing? Easy! Humans look for creative ways to break the game. AI doesn't do that. You want as many people in a beta test intentionally trying to break as much of the game in beta as possible. This is how exploits are found and fixed before release. AI doesn't do that. Also, AI doesn't tell you if you game is fun or not. Real gamers do.
Don't try to spin AI as a positive like DFO has done because AI bots don't buy games, people do. If a dev can't trust us to help them make a better game, the can go to hell. I'll gladly give my money to a company who cares about my opinion and values my input.
I hope Aventurine enjoys all the subscriptions those AI bots buy in 2020 when they finally release DFO.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Experience, reliability, dependability and the fact they are a publically traded company instead of Aventurine's long history of broken promises of betas, cancellations, GUILD beta tests, cancellations, etc. Aventurine's track record is a mine field of smoke, mirrors, and deception.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
I think itsa good thing thay uses the AI and pro testers. If they would take amateur beta testers those would be 90% WoW players and not much of that feedback would be of any use for the DF bevelopers.
We see here, and on the official DF forum that everyday some people that dont understand sandbox MMOs want to change it into a linear gameplay without playerfreedom. So its better the 10% of real sandbox players to the playertesting later : )
I just hope that they are many enough.
Darkfall has been out in the public Eye since 2002 and has had some failed Beta launches and a lack of information about the game itself [it has had some screenshots and videos but not much else]. In the past Adventurine has had problems getting a publisher till recently. The Devs have put out regular dev blogs that unfortunately contain very Little truly new information about the game itself. Over time its reputation has been damaged and it looks like a tired old entity due to the years its been in the public eye
Mortal online has JUST been officially announced, and like any new game that's announced will have higher expectations . It doesnt yet have ANY screenshots and only one movie so far but right now it has no multiple failed betas like Darkfall and it does have a interesting range of features to it that does compete at some level with what Darkfall is promising.
So basically i guess the reason those people are getting more exited over Mortal Online rather than Darkfall is because its new its reputation is untarnished and although it doesnt have the overwhelming amount of features Darkfall has it is nether-less close in some aspect to what Darfall offers and its a sandbox game as well [i have to say i like how your characters chosen god affects how you do stuff and how the more people worship that god the more powerful that effect on your character gets].
In the end tho isn't it a good thing that more 'Innovative' and daring game ideas like Darkfall are coming out?
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Darkfall has been out in the public Eye since 2002 and has had some failed Beta launches and a lack of information about the game itself [it has had some screenshots and videos but not much else]. In the past Adventurine has had problems getting a publisher till recently. The Devs have put out regular dev blogs that unfortunately contain very Little truly new information about the game itself. Over time its reputation has been damaged and it looks like a tired old entity due to the years its been in the public eye
Mortal online has JUST been officially announced, and like any new game that's announced will have higher expectations . It doesnt yet have ANY screenshots and only one movie so far but right now it has no multiple failed betas like Darkfall and it does have a interesting range of features to it that does compete at some level with what Darkfall is promising.
So basically i guess the reason those people are getting more exited over Mortal Online rather than Darkfall is because its new its reputation is untarnished and although it doesnt have the overwhelming amount of features Darkfall has it is nether-less close in some aspect to what Darfall offers and its a sandbox game as well [i have to say i like how your characters chosen god affects how you do stuff and how the more people worship that god the more powerful that effect on your character gets].
In the end tho isn't it a good thing that more 'Innovative' and daring game ideas like Darkfall are coming out?
Yes, it is, I love that more sandbox games are coming out, and that small gaming companies take chances. Just found it a bit strange that two days after the first information about Mortal Online, people start coming with ''Darkfall is domed forever'' threads
. When in fact, MO is just like DFO, a video and a forum, just that DFO has been around longer. But I understand what you mean, although I am hopeful that DFO will come out, and if it doesn't, too bad.
No one said AI bought games but don't try and spin it to say AI is bad because the AI in DF is similar to a player in the way that it does walk and cross terrain it does attack other monsters it also builds cities so to try and make it seem like AI wouldn't be good testers for such tedious things than I would say you seriously need to rethink that.
The devs DO include the community. They do check the forums and they're willing to change some features depending on the feedback of the community.
If you feel like making more crap up than please do as it is quite amusing. I would have thought that you would have read up more on DF while I was gone.
Experience, reliability, dependability and the fact they are a publically traded company instead of Aventurine's long history of broken promises of betas, cancellations, GUILD beta tests, cancellations, etc. Aventurine's track record is a mine field of smoke, mirrors, and deception.
You do realize that you have no backing to any of those three claims.
You see Aventurine announced beta once and didn't go through on the beta applications. Then Rasorwax missed one. So if you add that up its 3 in all but is it as bad as AoC? nope.
A few missed beta dates must = smoke, mirrors, and deception. Describe to me what AoC is going through?
No one said AI bought games but don't try and spin it to say AI is bad because the AI in DF is similar to a player in the way that it does walk and cross terrain it does attack other monsters it also builds cities so to try and make it seem like AI wouldn't be good testers for such tedious things than I would say you seriously need to rethink that.
The devs DO include the community. They do check the forums and they're willing to change some features depending on the feedback of the community.
If you feel like making more crap up than please do as it is quite amusing. I would have thought that you would have read up more on DF while I was gone.
How are you so up on what DFO does and doesn't have in-game? How are you so sure of what their AI is doing in-game? Are you in beta and breaking an NDA? I'm not the one making anything up. YOU are the one making a lot of stuff up making all of these "claims" about DFO.
Bottom line is, after seven years of development, DFO is nothing more than vaporware. There is ZERO proof that this game is real. EVERY single thing they have shown the community to-date can be done via mock-up. They won't go to E3. They won't go to DragonCon. They won't go to any gaming convention to show the world their game. Then people like you say and "they won't because the press will damage their game". The only thing that damages a games chances is when a developer writes checks they can't cash and their "golden egg" turns out to be a turd.
Welcome back, and please, explain yourself.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Experience, reliability, dependability and the fact they are a publically traded company instead of Aventurine's long history of broken promises of betas, cancellations, GUILD beta tests, cancellations, etc. Aventurine's track record is a mine field of smoke, mirrors, and deception.
From what I understand Mortal Online is being made by Starvault, which is a newly started Swedish company, so how would you know if they are good or bad?
Experience, reliability, dependability and the fact they are a publically traded company instead of Aventurine's long history of broken promises of betas, cancellations, GUILD beta tests, cancellations, etc. Aventurine's track record is a mine field of smoke, mirrors, and deception.
From what I understand Mortal Online is being made by Starvault, which is a newly started Swedish company, so how would you know if they are good or bad?
Because, if you look up the names on the website who founded the company, they have a solid reputation in the MMORPG field. They are experienced, reliable, and dependable. That alone sets them apart from Aventurine. This is no "hobby" to them. And besides, they are not hiding from the community unlike some companies we know.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
No one said AI bought games but don't try and spin it to say AI is bad because the AI in DF is similar to a player in the way that it does walk and cross terrain it does attack other monsters it also builds cities so to try and make it seem like AI wouldn't be good testers for such tedious things than I would say you seriously need to rethink that.
The devs DO include the community. They do check the forums and they're willing to change some features depending on the feedback of the community.
If you feel like making more crap up than please do as it is quite amusing. I would have thought that you would have read up more on DF while I was gone.
How are you so up on what DFO does and doesn't have in-game? How are you so sure of what their AI is doing in-game? Are you in beta and breaking an NDA? I'm not the one making anything up. YOU are the one making a lot of stuff up making all of these "claims" about DFO.
Oh I'm sorry if I actually read up on the game that I argue about. Perhaps you should do the same. Yes saying things like "The devs doesn't listen to the community" is complete crap since they did even make a prompted debate about SRS v SCS.
Bottom line is, after seven years of development, DFO is nothing more than vaporware. There is ZERO proof that this game is real. EVERY single thing they have shown the community to-date can be done via mock-up. They won't go to E3. They won't go to DragonCon. They won't go to any gaming convention to show the world their game. Then people like you say and "they won't because the press will damage their game". The only thing that damages a games chances is when a developer writes checks they can't cash and their "golden egg" turns out to be a turd.
No shannia. There is proof but YOU don't believe. I can't answer why they didnt go to those conventions but tell me this does every game developer go to E3 and such? If they don't all go then should it be such suspicion if one more doesnt go?
Welcome back, and please, explain yourself.
What the hell are you talking about? I never said, "The devs doesn't listen to the community".
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Hiding from the community? Quite the mind reader are we? Lets say something like that over something more plausible like... idk working? so its a hobby now?
That was just a summary of what you said but now that you bring it up I believe that I may have misread and I apologize if that wasn't what you meant by it.