Actually, you're wrong. The model has only been successful in places like Korea and the Far East, but has proven unsuccessful in the Western markets, which include, N. America and Europe (It may also include other areas, but I'm not absolute on that).
So you may ask why would an MMO company want to go this route? Because a few companies who have tried it, and the biggest Western name SOE, have proved that although there is a small market for it, the players who do play and pay for items, actually pay more money than a $15 per month subscription fee. Just Google the John Smedly interview on the Station Exchange and you'll see what I'm talking about.
Right and those who pay more money per month on cash shop items make up for those who play for free. It is a successful model that we will continue to see more and more.
It has not proven unsuccessful in Western markets. Why would you think that?
Right and those who pay more money per month on cash shop items make up for those who play for free. It is a successful model that we will continue to see more and more. It has not proven unsuccessful in Western markets. Why would you think that?
Why would I think that? Well because out of the listed top MMO's by subscription numbers, the only one that officially has that model is Second Life. WoW, Lineage, Lineage 2, Everquest, Everquest 2, SW:G, DAOC, LotRO, DDO, UO, etc do not and most of them are by far more succesful than Second Life.
Not to mention look at the problems with Second Life itself and the problems ownership of virtual property has caused. Do you really think that if the RMT solution is ever truely adopted by Western MMO companies that we won't eventually see lawsuit after lawsuit about the loss of virtual items? Do you really think that if RMT model is successful it won't be taxed like other online goods, with the players paying the majority of the cost?
Maybe I see more into it than most, but I actually do work on games for a living. I see the dollar signs in alot of the company suits eyes. I read all those dev boards where they talk about this stuff. It has already come up several times in Congress on how to tax virtual goods and I sincerely believe that once we actually have to start paying for items, decorations, and extra content via the RMT model, it's we the players who will actually end up paying for it. I know for sure it definately won't be the game companies.
I used to be dead set against this payment model, but after reflecting on it a bit...if there is a game with microtransaction that I am interested in I might be willing to try it.
For example, if they offer raid gear for a reasonable price, I might buy it. Reason is I don't like to raid. The idea of being stuck at the computer for 4 to 6 hours every week in the same dungeon over and over and over for several months is a waste of time. If I make between 50 to 70 bucks an hour at work, I'd rather just buy the gear and put all that time I would have been playing into my real world job. Then I can play the game, invest some more in my retirement and buy more cool toys
Ofcourse, some would say, what's the point in owning it if you didn't 'earn' it. Well, I earn money in the real world. And my accomplishments that I am most proud of are real world accomplishments. After SWG and the NGE and some time to reflect, I've come to the conclusion that games are just games.
maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't an item mall basically guarantee that crated items would be a waste of time, and thus crafting itself be completely pointless?
Not only does it sound like crafting would be damaged but the entire economy would be out of whack , with way to much money floating around everything would cost a fortune , or at least thats how I would envision it .
I can agree with the principals of micropayments, ONLY if the game itself is free to play... If NCSoft attempt to charge us a monthly fee AND micropayments for games such as CoH/CoV then I shall cancel my account immediately...
They already did that when they added what is currently optional advertising... the difference? You get no items (I wonder if/how long until they start giving extra vet months if you do though?).
I know it sounds harsh but how many people honestly believe that all the ad revenue generated is actually going to go back into CoX like they said when they have all those free, aging, and in-development games to be attended to? The money must come from somewhere and none of those things generate much of it (go ahead and shrug off the ads, but you are going to deny the coins too?). I personally would have thought that when they first mentioned ads more people would have sat up and taken notice but evidently a lot of customers actually believed them. I'm not normally the naysayer type (I like to think all games and companies have good things about them) but when pretty much every other premium game out can offer updates and improvements on the industry standard of $15 (unless it is an X-pac) then something must surely be wrong when they start saying "we need more money to give you what you are already getting with your current subscription fees" and then turn around and bring in the whole items shop bit (via the NC Coin) and people are STILL supposed to think everything is just fine? Seriously, that is so far beyond a safe bet as to be plainly silly. What I do see happening is that NCSoft is closing ranks and looking to pull money from anything they can. If they can sell something to you in game then don't be surprised if you find it for sale on their online store, if they can't? You'd best pray that the ingame ads in CoX flop and are abandoned or they are quite likely to start showing up in their other games as well. That said NCSoft is a business and like many other people have said (and said best imo) "Vote with your wallet" as it will serve you a good deal more than freaking out on a forum about it.
Personally? I closed my wallet to anything NCSoft as soon as they went through with the ads in COX. Do I feel that I'd like to play some of the games they offer that people have worked so hard to make, improve, and maintain? Yes, I really do. Do I feel like I'm missing out by not playing them? Again the answer is yes but it is my choice as noone is stopping me but me. However, my experiences with their PlayNC CS while I played CoX were lacklustre to say the least then they get involved with trying to bog down a game with ads and thats when I applied the full brake on my accounts with NCSoft. All the NC Coins thing does is to confirm for me that I made the right decision for me as I refuse to pay anyone that I don't have to double(or more) time pay for single time work. Again, this is just how I feel about it personally and I think it is up to others to decide exactly what their position(s) are.
"Speek for yourself, I dno't make misteaks." - fyerwall
maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't an item mall basically guarantee that crated items would be a waste of time, and thus crafting itself be completely pointless?
Absolutely, yes. I'm sure that one of the most successful MMO producers are going to make sure to break a primary, critical game component through the implementation of a new system. I'm sure they wouldn't think it through. I'm sure they wouldn't test it. In fact, I'm sure they will just throw the RMT system into place without any thought or concern as to the impact it will have on gameplay dynamics!
C'mon people, this is silly. NCSoft are not idiots. This is one of the most successful MMO game companies on the planet.
As for the babble about how rmt works in the East but could never work in the west, that's silly too! Just because it hasn't been done here before doesn't mean it can't be done. And just because subscription is the primary way MMO's launched here in the 'west' doesn't mean it's the only legitimate, acceptable pay mechanism. Again, NCSoft are not idiots.
RMT is here to stay. It's clean. It's viable. It absolutely can and does work. For all of you who say that you won't play ANY game that uses RMT, you are going to be replaced by a plethora of other people who won't and haven't played because of a mandatory monthly subscription!
Implementing RMT is about market expansion, not about maintaining the current market. Enticing newpeople to play.
I don't get some of you guys, you praise GW and say how much you love it, but hate NCsoft for making these "NCcoins", but it's okay for GW to sell items and skills in their shop for cool cash?
And what's the difference of having fake ads in game instead of the real ads that are coming? If i can look at abit of ads while flying around Paragon City and there by supporting the devteam without having to cash out my selfs (i'm a student, i don't have alot of spare cash) i'll happily do that. Even if all the cash doesn't go to the CoX devteam it'll still help them bring the content to the players faster. Like the wedding pack, which is an optional costume pack that can be bought in the NCsoft store, helped bringing the VEAT into issue 12 instead of issue 13 like they had original planned.
Also don't forget that NCsoft is Korean based, and they've got one of the biggest mmo's for the asian market (Lineage 2) so it's not like the NCcoins are aimed for the US/EU market, it's just another feature for the companys devs to use.
maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't an item mall basically guarantee that crated items would be a waste of time, and thus crafting itself be completely pointless?
Absolutely, yes. I'm sure that one of the most successful MMO producers are going to make sure to break a primary, critical game component through the implementation of a new system. I'm sure they wouldn't think it through. I'm sure they wouldn't test it. In fact, I'm sure they will just throw the RMT system into place without any thought or concern as to the impact it will have on gameplay dynamics!
C'mon people, this is silly. NCSoft are not idiots. This is one of the most successful MMO game companies on the planet.
As for the babble about how rmt works in the East but could never work in the west, that's silly too! Just because it hasn't been done here before doesn't mean it can't be done. And just because subscription is the primary way MMO's launched here in the 'west' doesn't mean it's the only legitimate, acceptable pay mechanism. Again, NCSoft are not idiots.
RMT is here to stay. It's clean. It's viable. It absolutely can and does work. For all of you who say that you won't play ANY game that uses RMT, you are going to be replaced by a plethora of other people who won't and haven't played because of a mandatory monthly subscription!
Implementing RMT is about market expansion, not about maintaining the current market. Enticing newpeople to play.
ya know, I hate to break it to you, but I've seen mmo companies do just that. You HAVE heard of SWG, right? Granted it wasn't micro payments that buggered their games, but various other "new systems" they introduced.
Look at it logically. If crafted items are better than item mall stuff, why buy from the item mall?
If item mall things are better than crafted, then crafting is broken.
didn't FlagShip have the most successful MMO launch in Korea ever... and it was also the first game to be launched on Subscription instead of Item Mall?
Makes you wonder...
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title. "When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
ya know, I hate to break it to you, but I've seen mmo companies do just that. You HAVE heard of SWG, right? Granted it wasn't micro payments that buggered their games, but various other "new systems" they introduced.
Look at it logically. If crafted items are better than item mall stuff, why buy from the item mall? If item mall things are better than crafted, then crafting is broken. It doesn't take a genius to figure out.
Who says that Crafted items must be better than item mall stuff or vice versa? Could be just different stuff. Who says that item mall stuff IS going to be equipment? Metin has a pretty sweet model... item mall stuff is all consumable, temporary duration stuff- buffs of various sorts, XP gain boosts.
Let's say there is equipment though- making it equivelant to world drops and crafting items is no big thing. You don't want to use RMT? Craft it, then. Or buy from a crafter. Or go grind for the drop.
I simply don't see why RMT is the death of anything, it's just another system, granted one that comes loaded with a LOT of personal opinionated perceptions that may or may not be based on fact, but rather the perception of facts- open to interpretation.
Let's see, I think it's just terrible and awful to give people choices. Choices ALWAYS ruin a game. Instead, there should be just one way to do something and every game player should be forced into doing it that way by game mechanics. Ugh.
The thing that is so funny to me is that the whole "buying gold is ILLEGAL and ruins everything and breaks the rules and, and and..." crowd is really getting stirred up here... because now the game companies are changing the rules... and the old argument simply goes away... the whole "you're a dirty rat-bastard cheater" thing because "you are violating the EULA" argument now fails because the EULA changes. But instead of embracing the new mechanics, the old "you're a dirty rotten cheater crowd" is going to be on the other side of the fence, holding on to their position in spite of a new EULA!
I love it. How the world turns. What was wrong becomes right and that really fries peoples tomatoes! LOL.
actually, most of us hate goldsellers because they ruin game economies, and spam constantly.
And if item mall stuff is on par with crafted...once again, why craft anything? If you can just buy the game currency, why sell crafted goods, when you don't need the sales to make money?
Not saying it's the end of gaming or anything, but it just seems to break too many game mechanics. Why bother to earn anything when you can just outright buy it?
Why bother to earn anything when you can just outright buy it?
This comes down to a difference in MMO game-play philosophy. On one side are the folks who demand the whole point of an MMORPG is to 'earn' every thing- that's point of the game, grinding is not a necessary game mechanic but a welcome that comes with an assortment of wonderful rewards that make it worth the effort. You work for what you get and you get what you work for. That's the way 'it' is supposed to be.
On another side are the folks who demand the whole point of an MMORPG is to explore and be online with friends, that grinding is nothing more than a broken game mechnanic. They don't play to earn anything, they play to play. Having the most uber gear is not important, but having decent gear that enables them to play in the world successfully is important not for the gears sake, but for the mechanics of the game. They want nothing to do with grinding and there's enough content that isn't grinding to make the game enjoyable for this group.
I have seen one thread after another degenerate into the first group completely bashing the second group and the second group going on the defensive and then bashing the first group.
I see the validity in both positions. I think NCSoft is taking the first steps to accomodate both groups and the wide diversity in between. It's the power of "AND" vs. the limitations of "OR." For polarized groups it's always it has to be EITHER this way OR that way... no room to have it both ways.
So, to respond to "Why bother to earn anything when you can just outright buy it?" My answer is because there are many people who play MMO's who don't see 'earning' as the primary point of the game. I'm sure that will set you off... it usually does set of the 'earning' crowd who can only see their perspective...
My point is, it can be both. No one is writing a rule book that says it must be either/or. You want to earn it? Fine- go earn it. You rather buy it? Fine- go buy it. To each his own.
you can earn things without a grind, actually. LOTRO is a great example of this. Accomplishment doesn't have to be a painful process. But it does result in a sense of satisfaction and pride.
Every play through a game with cheat codes? Fun for about 10 minutes, then you quit the game thinking "what's the point?"
No, your post isn't going to "set me off". Takes more than a conversation on a forum to do that. I don't for a moment think that this type of micro-payment system is going to ruin MMOs, because I don't see it taking over the industry.
Not ruining my fun, or my games, because I don't play asian games.
I don't get some of you guys, you praise GW and say how much you love it, but hate NCsoft for making these "NCcoins", but it's okay for GW to sell items and skills in their shop for cool cash? And what's the difference of having fake ads in game instead of the real ads that are coming? If i can look at abit of ads while flying around Paragon City and there by supporting the devteam without having to cash out my selfs (i'm a student, i don't have alot of spare cash) i'll happily do that. Even if all the cash doesn't go to the CoX devteam it'll still help them bring the content to the players faster. Like the wedding pack, which is an optional costume pack that can be bought in the NCsoft store, helped bringing the VEAT into issue 12 instead of issue 13 like they had original planned. Also don't forget that NCsoft is Korean based, and they've got one of the biggest mmo's for the asian market (Lineage 2) so it's not like the NCcoins are aimed for the US/EU market, it's just another feature for the companys devs to use.
1. I have no clue about the GW mix n' match position some people seem to take.
2. "And what's the difference of having fake ads in game instead of the real ads that are coming? If i can look at abit of ads while flying around Paragon City and there by supporting the devteam without having to cash out my selfs (i'm a student, i don't have alot of spare cash) i'll happily do that."
Except that you already pay a subscription, CoX is not free. What did you think your subscription money is for?
3. "Even if all the cash doesn't go to the CoX devteam it'll still help them bring the content to the players faster."
You do know they told anyone who would listen that ad revenue generated would go back into CoX (they said nothing of it going to other titles) as a means of garnering support for it, right? I have seen numerous people use that information alone as both justification as to why they embrace the idea and why other people should also be accepting.
4. "Like the wedding pack, which is an optional costume pack that can be bought in the NCsoft store, helped bringing the VEAT into issue 12 instead of issue 13 like they had original planned."
Errr, Lol? The wedding pack type items had been afforded as a gratuity in the past, you are saying that the playerbase should not only pay their subscriptions, but also give them even more money via ads and start paying for content that had previously been free? For someone who doesn't have a lot of money you sure seem to want to throw it around.
Never mind that, How long have you been playing games? Not trying to be a rear but most people that have played games for a long while know that until something is actually released then it isn't a fact, they have not brought VEATs into Issue 12 just yet. Why? Where is Issue 12? It will get here when they release it and until the VEATs show up in it then they haven't been brought anywhere except "up" (there are still a lot of ways for them to be "pushed back" and what if they do release them all kinds of buggered for Issue 12, won't that be fun?).
Who said that the revenue generated from the costume pack did in fact help bring the yet to be released VEATs out sooner? The same company that is already moving towards double tacking funds and now releasing the RMT model in force on it's customers? Ad and Sales 101 "Do not make your customers feel that you are forcing them to spend as it will only lead to resentment and in turn loss of sales. Instead make them want to spend, make them feel as if every fiber in their body is telling them they MUST have whatever it is you are selling, this will lead to not only a bigger customer base at the start of the business day but also a more loyal customer base at the close of it."
I'm not going to tell you that I started charging for what had been free just to turn around and thank you for my new car as it is bad for business. Again, NCSoft is a business. It isn't anyones friend, it doesn't care about anyones issues unless they can make money off of them (can anyone blame them? I surely don't, look at the mental health profession and begrudge them too if you do).
5. "Also don't forget that NCsoft is Korean based, and they've got one of the biggest mmo's for the asian market (Lineage 2) so it's not like the NCcoins are aimed for the US/EU market, it's just another feature for the companys devs to use."
So because they are Korean based they aren't going to try to make money wherever they can? Uhm, Ok.
Also if the coins aren't being marketed to the western markets (meaning EU/US) Then why give a press release not only in English from the North American NCSoft Headquarters but also send it out to what are generally considered to be western market based gaming sites? Why also tell people that they are in fact going to market it to the EU/US and fit it into any game they can? Don't believe me? Believe Chris Chung, President of NCSoft-North America:
ON IMPLEMENTATION
“With the release of Exteel and NCcoin micro-transaction system, we at NCsoft North America are taking this opportunity to really focus on improving our game infrastructure, service and overall customer experience.”
“NCsoft has grown its game catalogue to the point where we are now not just offering individual products, but a service. NCcoin will serve as an important part of making NCsoft’s service easier to use by our customers and more efficient for NCsoft to add new content.”
Sure looks like it is being marketed to the EU/US to me, Mr. Chung went on to say....
ON WHICH GAMES FIT NCCOIN
“NCcoin will not be retrofitted in games that have business models that do not work with a micro-transaction system. We will, however, work to have NCcoin incorporated in as many of our games as possible, and what role NCcoin will play with our future console offerings have yet to be determined. NCcoin does fit perfect for some of the free-to-play and download games we are developing, and gives players choice on how they want to play these games.”
Yup, marketed to EU/US players and implemented into anything that can support it according to him and you had best go ahead and bet on them putting coin and item ads into the high fantasy games as well (that is how it is done in the market they are trying to push).
Here is a fun bit directly from the PlayNC.com website "NCcoin is non-refundable and expires one (1) year after purchase date." So basically if you don't spend your (ingame) bank account by the time they think you should then they will do it for you. Sounds reasonable (LOL).
By this point I really have gotten the feeling that you haven't really stayed up with the NCSoft news, didn't read this press release in particular, and may have tripped over the reply button by accident...
"Speek for yourself, I dno't make misteaks." - fyerwall
Originally posted by Sinnahis 2. "And what's the difference of having fake ads in game instead of the real ads that are coming? If i can look at abit of ads while flying around Paragon City and there by supporting the devteam without having to cash out my selfs (i'm a student, i don't have alot of spare cash) i'll happily do that." Except that you already pay a subscription, CoX is not free. What did you think your subscription money is for?
Yes, i already paid a subscribtion, but if i can "pay more" without actully paying anything, i'll be happy to do so.
Originally posted by Sinnahis 3. "Even if all the cash doesn't go to the CoX devteam it'll still help them bring the content to the players faster." You do know they told anyone who would listen that ad revenue generated would go back into CoX (they said nothing of it going to other titles), right? I have seen numerous people use that information alone as both justification as to why they embrace the idea and why other people should also be accepting.
Yes, i know they said that, but alot of people don't seem to believe so, so i chose to go with "their" version.
Originally posted by Sinnahis 4. "Like the wedding pack, which is an optional costume pack that can be bought in the NCsoft store, helped bringing the VEAT into issue 12 instead of issue 13 like they had original planned." Errr, Lol? The wedding pack type items had been afforded as a gratuity in the past, you are saying that the playerbase should not only pay their subscriptions, but also give them even more money via ads and start paying for content that had previously been free? For someone who doesn't have a lot of money you sure seem to want to throw it around. Never mind that, How long have you been playing games? Not trying to be a rear but most people that have played games for a long while know that until something is actually released then it isn't a fact, they have not brought VEATs into Issue 12 just yet. Why? Where is Issue 12? It will get here when they release it and until the VEATs show up in it they haven't been brought anywhere except "up". Who said that the revenue generated from the costume pack did in fact help bring the yet to be released Veats out sooner? The same company that is already moving towards double tacking funds and now released the RMT model in force on it's customers? Ad and Sales 101 "Do not make your customers feel that you are forcing them to spend as it will only lead to resentment and in turn loss of sales. Instead make them want to spend, make them feel as if every fiber in their body is telling them they MUST have whatever it is you are selling, this will lead to not only a bigger customer base from the start of the day but also a more loyal customer base at the end of it." I'm not going to tell you that I started charging for what had been free just to turn around and thank you for my new car as it is bad for business. Again, NCSoft is a business. It isn't anyones friend, it doesn't care about anyones issues unless they can make money off of it (can anyone blame them? I surely don't, look at the mental health profession and begrudge them too if you do).
The devs said them self that the revenue gained from the wedding pack helped them push the VEAT into issue 12 instead of issue 13 as they had planned originally. They've been able to hire more people with the increased revenue, thus increasing productivy. Also we've got plenty of costumes for free, these were released for those who wanted something special to wear to the ingame event where sister psyche and manticore got married.
Originally posted by Sinnahis 5. "Also don't forget that NCsoft is Korean based, and they've got one of the biggest mmo's for the asian market (Lineage 2) so it's not like the NCcoins are aimed for the US/EU market, it's just another feature for the companys devs to use."
So because they are Korean based they aren't going to try to make money wherever they can? Uhm, Ok. Also if the coins aren't being marketed to the western markets (meaning EU/US) Then why give a press release not only in English from the North American NCSoft Headquarters but also send it out to what are generally considered to be western market based gaming sites? Why also tell people that they are in fact going to market it to the US and fit into any game they can? Don't believe me? Believe Chris Chung, President of NCSoft-North America: ON IMPLEMENTATION With the release of Exteel and NCcoin micro-transaction system, we at NCsoft North America are taking this opportunity to really focus on improving our game infrastructure, service and overall customer experience. NCsoft has grown its game catalogue to the point where we are now not just offering individual products, but a service. NCcoin will serve as an important part of making NCsofts service easier to use by our customers and more efficient for NCsoft to add new content. Sure looks like it is being marketed to the EU/US to me, Mr. Chung went on to say.... ON WHICH GAMES FIT NCCOIN NCcoin will not be retrofitted in games that have business models that do not work with a micro-transaction system. We will, however, work to have NCcoin incorporated in as many of our games as possible, and what role NCcoin will play with our future console offerings have yet to be determined. NCcoin does fit perfect for some of the free-to-play and download games we are developing, and gives players choice on how they want to play these games. Yup, marketed to EU/US players and crammed into anything they can according to him. Here is a fun bit from directly from PlayNC.com "NCcoin is non-refundable and expires one (1) year after purchase date." So basically if you don't spend your (ingame) bank account then they will. Sounds reasonable (LOL).
By this point I really have gotten the feeling that you haven't really stayed up with the NCSoft news, didn't read this press release in particular, and may have tripped over the reply button by accident...
I just meant that it was amazing they didn't already have such a system in store being that it's the most common mmo-payment model in the asianmarket. As for the "NCcoin will not be retrofitted in games that have business models that do not work with a micro-transaction system. We will, however, work to have NCcoin incorporated in as many of our games as possible" I do believe he's talking about merging it with the store in GW and adding a store to their Dungeon runners game. I highly doubt they'll add it to games such as Tabula rasa, City of * and Lineage 2.
Yes, i already paid a subscribtion, but if i can "pay more" without actully paying anything, i'll be happy to do so.
Originally posted by Sinnahis
3.
Yes, i know they said that, but alot of people don't seem to believe so, so i chose to go with "their" version.
Originally posted by Sinnahis
4.
The devs said them self that the revenue gained from the wedding pack helped them push the VEAT into issue 12 instead of issue 13 as they had planned originally. They've been able to hire more people with the increased revenue, thus increasing productivy. Also we've got plenty of costumes for free, these were released for those who wanted something special to wear to the ingame event where sister psyche and manticore got married.
Originally posted by Sinnahis
5.
I just meant that it was amazing they didn't already have such a system in store being that it's the most common mmo-payment model in the asianmarket. As for the "NCcoin will not be retrofitted in games that have business models that do not work with a micro-transaction system. We will, however, work to have NCcoin incorporated in as many of our games as possible" I do believe he's talking about merging it with the store in GW and adding a store to their Dungeon runners game. I highly doubt they'll add it to games such as Tabula rasa, City of * and Lineage 2.
"Yes, i already paid a subscribtion, but if i can "pay more" without actully paying anything, i'll be happy to do so."
So you are going to give them something for nothing, That'll teach them whom they are dealing with.
You originally said "Even if all the cash doesn't go to the CoX devteam it'll still help them bring the content to the players faster." care to explain how exactly that works with "Yes, i know they said that, but alot of people don't seem to believe so, so i chose to go with "their" version." when their actual and factual version is that "the ad revenue generated would go back into CoX"? It doesn't.
"The devs said them self that the revenue gained from the wedding pack helped them push the VEAT into issue 12 instead of issue 13 as they had planned originally." You have already said that and it doesn't discount that it was and is a marketing spin. Do you honestly think that they made enough from those to actually do what they claimed? Hardly, what those actually are called is test sales or test marketing, they move to see what people actually will and will not pay for and then adjust the business model accordingly. Again, since Issue 12 is not out then you cannot reasonably say that the VEATs are in it. The VEATs look to be planned for it but until they are actually released with Issue 12 (and not incomplete/half done) then your using them as a backing for your position is more than a little flimsy at best.
"Also we've got plenty of costumes for free, these were released for those who wanted something special to wear to the ingame event where sister psyche and manticore got married." By this logic it is also a sound jump to say that people should be buying vet rewards because they just want something special. I know more than a few players that won't be happy if this comes to pass (and by this point can anyone honestly deny the possibility?).
"I just meant that it was amazing they didn't already have such a system in store being that it's the most common mmo-payment model in the asianmarket. As for the "NCcoin will not be retrofitted in games that have business models that do not work with a micro-transaction system. We will, however, work to have NCcoin incorporated in as many of our games as possible" I do believe he's talking about merging it with the store in GW and adding a store to their Dungeon runners game. I highly doubt they'll add it to games such as Tabula rasa, City of * and Lineage 2."
First, this isn't an asian market so there is nothing amazing about it. Second, You can think in one hand and believe in the other but the safe money is that you are rolling snake-eyes when the shot callers have already said what is what. "NCcoin will not be retrofitted in games that have business models that do not work with a micro-transaction system. We will, however, work to have NCcoin incorporated in as many of our games as possible" Meaning that it is a logical step to make certain Costumes, Costume Parts, and Enhancements purchasable via NCCoins. Maybe they'll even include Power sets and ATs to the coinable list. Wow, can it be that easy to fit this into games already released? Damn skippy it can, If a game can sell items that have an amount of uses that you have to repurchase for a several bucks a pop then you had better believe thay can find a way to squeeze it in if they really want.
"Speek for yourself, I dno't make misteaks." - fyerwall
Why bother to earn anything when you can just outright buy it?
This comes down to a difference in MMO game-play philosophy. On one side are the folks who demand the whole point of an MMORPG is to 'earn' every thing- that's point of the game, grinding is not a necessary game mechanic but a welcome that comes with an assortment of wonderful rewards that make it worth the effort. You work for what you get and you get what you work for. That's the way 'it' is supposed to be.
On another side are the folks who demand the whole point of an MMORPG is to explore and be online with friends, that grinding is nothing more than a broken game mechnanic. They don't play to earn anything, they play to play. Having the most uber gear is not important, but having decent gear that enables them to play in the world successfully is important not for the gears sake, but for the mechanics of the game. They want nothing to do with grinding and there's enough content that isn't grinding to make the game enjoyable for this group.
I have seen one thread after another degenerate into the first group completely bashing the second group and the second group going on the defensive and then bashing the first group.
I see the validity in both positions. I think NCSoft is taking the first steps to accomodate both groups and the wide diversity in between. It's the power of "AND" vs. the limitations of "OR." For polarized groups it's always it has to be EITHER this way OR that way... no room to have it both ways.
So, to respond to "Why bother to earn anything when you can just outright buy it?" My answer is because there are many people who play MMO's who don't see 'earning' as the primary point of the game. I'm sure that will set you off... it usually does set of the 'earning' crowd who can only see their perspective...
My point is, it can be both. No one is writing a rule book that says it must be either/or. You want to earn it? Fine- go earn it. You rather buy it? Fine- go buy it. To each his own.
No animosity required.
A game developer can't satisfy both groups though.
As one of the players from the "earning it " group, I will never play a MMOG which condones and/or sponsors RMT. It's a basic principle of design which makes the game unplayable for me. Most of us"earner" types feel this strongly about it.
I think some of the people panicking or getting upset don't realize that this will probably only be for the free to play games such as Dungeon Runners and Exsteel. I doubt very much we'll see these coins going to use in City of Heroes for example.
In DR or Ex I don't see this as being a problem. Both games are 100% free to play, so they have to get a little income somehow. Now if this crosses over into City of Heroes or Guild Wars, then I am gonna have a problem with it ....
A game developer can't satisfy both groups though.
As one of the players from the "earning it " group, I will never play a MMOG which condones and/or sponsors RMT. It's a basic principle of design which makes the game unplayable for me. Most of us"earner" types feel this strongly about it.
With PvE raiding it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fauning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privelege. - Neanderthal
This is precisely the "better than thou" type attitude that perfectly represents the 'earning it' group and that sets the animosity in motion.
I'm going to guess that all the folks who are predicting the demise of the RMT / Item Mall model in America and "the West" are going to be very disheartened by things to come. Bottom line is that the target demographic for MMO's in the U.S. is saturated and tapped. Subscriptions are not growing at the pace in the U.S. that they were 3 or 5 or even 9 years ago. Game publishers are in the business of making money, this means finding ways to increase market share or broadening the target demographic successfully.
Free to play / RMT based games are the wave of the future that will open the door to a massively untouched demographic here in the States and Europe. It's time has come (not before now though) but as it gains momentum, the model is going to be embraced by an entirely new breed of online gamer.
For every subscriber, there are 5 people waiting to play who will inevitably use RMT along the way, whether they start off intending to or not. These are the same people who cannot conceive of committing to $14.95/month subscription to play a game; who think the subscription model is ridiculous.
Don't make the mistake of thinking there is no market for a well-tuned RMT model in the U.S. You just haven't seen the market yet... because the market for RMT would never subscribe for a game stating their position as follows:
"I will never play a MMOG which condones and/or sponsors subscriptions. It's a basic principle of design which makes the game unplayable for me. It's ridiculous for a company to force me to subscribe in order to play their game."
You have ads in your CoX? Wow that sucks, maybe its like the supposed ads in BF2142 that I never saw since legislation over here (Australia) prevented them from displaying ads in game.
I support this IF NCSoft only allow buying of nonsical stuff, like different costumes, ingame pets, housing and the like. The moment you can buy, lets say top of the line equipment ingame, ingame money etc. the game is ruined. Why? Cause then only the players with the biggest wallet will be successful ingame. What is the fun in playing a game when everyone around you is running around with The Sword of 1000000 Cuts, donning the Armour of 10 million AC while you are running around with Wooden Stick of Bluntness, and Saggy Clothes? Eventually all players will bump into pvp and then the gross inbalance will be there for all to see.
Nope, the players supporting this is the new crowd of mmo players, grown up on WoW which give most players instant gratification. The same kinds of players using wallhacks, exploits and aimbots to be competitive online. They somehow justify their behavior with that they got a 'life' and by that dont have much time to play. They say that they cant compete with the kid who spend 40+ hours a week playing their mmo. Guess what, most of us cant. Most of us dont spend even a third of that time online each week and still we somehow manage to stay competitive. If the kid run around with the best equipment in the game cause he spend so much time online, well...he deserve it for all the time invested getting it. The RMT crowd doesn't. You want something, work for it.
If NCSoft on the other hand put this into their subscription based games, I'm outta there fast. Currently subbed to COH. If I see NCSoft start RMT for it, I will hit the cancel button so fast my mouse will explode.
maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't an item mall basically guarantee that crated items would be a waste of time, and thus crafting itself be completely pointless?
It all depends on the game design ... if the game is designed around micro payment I don't see a problem.
Comments
Right and those who pay more money per month on cash shop items make up for those who play for free. It is a successful model that we will continue to see more and more.
It has not proven unsuccessful in Western markets. Why would you think that?
Not to mention look at the problems with Second Life itself and the problems ownership of virtual property has caused. Do you really think that if the RMT solution is ever truely adopted by Western MMO companies that we won't eventually see lawsuit after lawsuit about the loss of virtual items? Do you really think that if RMT model is successful it won't be taxed like other online goods, with the players paying the majority of the cost?
Maybe I see more into it than most, but I actually do work on games for a living. I see the dollar signs in alot of the company suits eyes. I read all those dev boards where they talk about this stuff. It has already come up several times in Congress on how to tax virtual goods and I sincerely believe that once we actually have to start paying for items, decorations, and extra content via the RMT model, it's we the players who will actually end up paying for it. I know for sure it definately won't be the game companies.
I used to be dead set against this payment model, but after reflecting on it a bit...if there is a game with microtransaction that I am interested in I might be willing to try it.
For example, if they offer raid gear for a reasonable price, I might buy it. Reason is I don't like to raid. The idea of being stuck at the computer for 4 to 6 hours every week in the same dungeon over and over and over for several months is a waste of time. If I make between 50 to 70 bucks an hour at work, I'd rather just buy the gear and put all that time I would have been playing into my real world job. Then I can play the game, invest some more in my retirement and buy more cool toys
Ofcourse, some would say, what's the point in owning it if you didn't 'earn' it. Well, I earn money in the real world. And my accomplishments that I am most proud of are real world accomplishments. After SWG and the NGE and some time to reflect, I've come to the conclusion that games are just games.
maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't an item mall basically guarantee that crated items would be a waste of time, and thus crafting itself be completely pointless?
Not only does it sound like crafting would be damaged but the entire economy would be out of whack , with way to much money floating around everything would cost a fortune , or at least thats how I would envision it .
They already did that when they added what is currently optional advertising... the difference? You get no items (I wonder if/how long until they start giving extra vet months if you do though?).
I know it sounds harsh but how many people honestly believe that all the ad revenue generated is actually going to go back into CoX like they said when they have all those free, aging, and in-development games to be attended to? The money must come from somewhere and none of those things generate much of it (go ahead and shrug off the ads, but you are going to deny the coins too?). I personally would have thought that when they first mentioned ads more people would have sat up and taken notice but evidently a lot of customers actually believed them. I'm not normally the naysayer type (I like to think all games and companies have good things about them) but when pretty much every other premium game out can offer updates and improvements on the industry standard of $15 (unless it is an X-pac) then something must surely be wrong when they start saying "we need more money to give you what you are already getting with your current subscription fees" and then turn around and bring in the whole items shop bit (via the NC Coin) and people are STILL supposed to think everything is just fine? Seriously, that is so far beyond a safe bet as to be plainly silly. What I do see happening is that NCSoft is closing ranks and looking to pull money from anything they can. If they can sell something to you in game then don't be surprised if you find it for sale on their online store, if they can't? You'd best pray that the ingame ads in CoX flop and are abandoned or they are quite likely to start showing up in their other games as well. That said NCSoft is a business and like many other people have said (and said best imo) "Vote with your wallet" as it will serve you a good deal more than freaking out on a forum about it.
Personally? I closed my wallet to anything NCSoft as soon as they went through with the ads in COX. Do I feel that I'd like to play some of the games they offer that people have worked so hard to make, improve, and maintain? Yes, I really do. Do I feel like I'm missing out by not playing them? Again the answer is yes but it is my choice as noone is stopping me but me. However, my experiences with their PlayNC CS while I played CoX were lacklustre to say the least then they get involved with trying to bog down a game with ads and thats when I applied the full brake on my accounts with NCSoft. All the NC Coins thing does is to confirm for me that I made the right decision for me as I refuse to pay anyone that I don't have to double(or more) time pay for single time work. Again, this is just how I feel about it personally and I think it is up to others to decide exactly what their position(s) are.
"Speek for yourself, I dno't make misteaks." - fyerwall
....c'mon NCsoft, there are better ways to pay for rocketfuel
C'mon people, this is silly. NCSoft are not idiots. This is one of the most successful MMO game companies on the planet.
As for the babble about how rmt works in the East but could never work in the west, that's silly too! Just because it hasn't been done here before doesn't mean it can't be done. And just because subscription is the primary way MMO's launched here in the 'west' doesn't mean it's the only legitimate, acceptable pay mechanism. Again, NCSoft are not idiots.
RMT is here to stay. It's clean. It's viable. It absolutely can and does work. For all of you who say that you won't play ANY game that uses RMT, you are going to be replaced by a plethora of other people who won't and haven't played because of a mandatory monthly subscription!
Implementing RMT is about market expansion, not about maintaining the current market. Enticing new people to play.
I don't get some of you guys, you praise GW and say how much you love it, but hate NCsoft for making these "NCcoins", but it's okay for GW to sell items and skills in their shop for cool cash?
And what's the difference of having fake ads in game instead of the real ads that are coming? If i can look at abit of ads while flying around Paragon City and there by supporting the devteam without having to cash out my selfs (i'm a student, i don't have alot of spare cash) i'll happily do that. Even if all the cash doesn't go to the CoX devteam it'll still help them bring the content to the players faster. Like the wedding pack, which is an optional costume pack that can be bought in the NCsoft store, helped bringing the VEAT into issue 12 instead of issue 13 like they had original planned.
Also don't forget that NCsoft is Korean based, and they've got one of the biggest mmo's for the asian market (Lineage 2) so it's not like the NCcoins are aimed for the US/EU market, it's just another feature for the companys devs to use.
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C'mon people, this is silly. NCSoft are not idiots. This is one of the most successful MMO game companies on the planet.
As for the babble about how rmt works in the East but could never work in the west, that's silly too! Just because it hasn't been done here before doesn't mean it can't be done. And just because subscription is the primary way MMO's launched here in the 'west' doesn't mean it's the only legitimate, acceptable pay mechanism. Again, NCSoft are not idiots.
RMT is here to stay. It's clean. It's viable. It absolutely can and does work. For all of you who say that you won't play ANY game that uses RMT, you are going to be replaced by a plethora of other people who won't and haven't played because of a mandatory monthly subscription!
Implementing RMT is about market expansion, not about maintaining the current market. Enticing new people to play.
ya know, I hate to break it to you, but I've seen mmo companies do just that. You HAVE heard of SWG, right? Granted it wasn't micro payments that buggered their games, but various other "new systems" they introduced.Look at it logically. If crafted items are better than item mall stuff, why buy from the item mall?
If item mall things are better than crafted, then crafting is broken.
It doesn't take a genius to figure out.
didn't FlagShip have the most successful MMO launch in Korea ever... and it was also the first game to be launched on Subscription instead of Item Mall?
Makes you wonder...
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
Who says that Crafted items must be better than item mall stuff or vice versa? Could be just different stuff. Who says that item mall stuff IS going to be equipment? Metin has a pretty sweet model... item mall stuff is all consumable, temporary duration stuff- buffs of various sorts, XP gain boosts.
Let's say there is equipment though- making it equivelant to world drops and crafting items is no big thing. You don't want to use RMT? Craft it, then. Or buy from a crafter. Or go grind for the drop.
I simply don't see why RMT is the death of anything, it's just another system, granted one that comes loaded with a LOT of personal opinionated perceptions that may or may not be based on fact, but rather the perception of facts- open to interpretation.
Let's see, I think it's just terrible and awful to give people choices. Choices ALWAYS ruin a game. Instead, there should be just one way to do something and every game player should be forced into doing it that way by game mechanics. Ugh.
The thing that is so funny to me is that the whole "buying gold is ILLEGAL and ruins everything and breaks the rules and, and and..." crowd is really getting stirred up here... because now the game companies are changing the rules... and the old argument simply goes away... the whole "you're a dirty rat-bastard cheater" thing because "you are violating the EULA" argument now fails because the EULA changes. But instead of embracing the new mechanics, the old "you're a dirty rotten cheater crowd" is going to be on the other side of the fence, holding on to their position in spite of a new EULA!
I love it. How the world turns. What was wrong becomes right and that really fries peoples tomatoes! LOL.
actually, most of us hate goldsellers because they ruin game economies, and spam constantly.
And if item mall stuff is on par with crafted...once again, why craft anything? If you can just buy the game currency, why sell crafted goods, when you don't need the sales to make money?
Not saying it's the end of gaming or anything, but it just seems to break too many game mechanics. Why bother to earn anything when you can just outright buy it?
On another side are the folks who demand the whole point of an MMORPG is to explore and be online with friends, that grinding is nothing more than a broken game mechnanic. They don't play to earn anything, they play to play. Having the most uber gear is not important, but having decent gear that enables them to play in the world successfully is important not for the gears sake, but for the mechanics of the game. They want nothing to do with grinding and there's enough content that isn't grinding to make the game enjoyable for this group.
I have seen one thread after another degenerate into the first group completely bashing the second group and the second group going on the defensive and then bashing the first group.
I see the validity in both positions. I think NCSoft is taking the first steps to accomodate both groups and the wide diversity in between. It's the power of "AND" vs. the limitations of "OR." For polarized groups it's always it has to be EITHER this way OR that way... no room to have it both ways.
So, to respond to "Why bother to earn anything when you can just outright buy it?" My answer is because there are many people who play MMO's who don't see 'earning' as the primary point of the game. I'm sure that will set you off... it usually does set of the 'earning' crowd who can only see their perspective...
My point is, it can be both. No one is writing a rule book that says it must be either/or. You want to earn it? Fine- go earn it. You rather buy it? Fine- go buy it. To each his own.
No animosity required.
you can earn things without a grind, actually. LOTRO is a great example of this. Accomplishment doesn't have to be a painful process. But it does result in a sense of satisfaction and pride.
Every play through a game with cheat codes? Fun for about 10 minutes, then you quit the game thinking "what's the point?"
No, your post isn't going to "set me off". Takes more than a conversation on a forum to do that. I don't for a moment think that this type of micro-payment system is going to ruin MMOs, because I don't see it taking over the industry.
Not ruining my fun, or my games, because I don't play asian games.
thats really dumb how could they do that?
imo exteel should just make a tagline "all gold farmers come here"
because NCcoin is really no different than rmt.
1. I have no clue about the GW mix n' match position some people seem to take.
2. "And what's the difference of having fake ads in game instead of the real ads that are coming? If i can look at abit of ads while flying around Paragon City and there by supporting the devteam without having to cash out my selfs (i'm a student, i don't have alot of spare cash) i'll happily do that."
Except that you already pay a subscription, CoX is not free. What did you think your subscription money is for?
3. "Even if all the cash doesn't go to the CoX devteam it'll still help them bring the content to the players faster."
You do know they told anyone who would listen that ad revenue generated would go back into CoX (they said nothing of it going to other titles) as a means of garnering support for it, right? I have seen numerous people use that information alone as both justification as to why they embrace the idea and why other people should also be accepting.
4. "Like the wedding pack, which is an optional costume pack that can be bought in the NCsoft store, helped bringing the VEAT into issue 12 instead of issue 13 like they had original planned."
Errr, Lol? The wedding pack type items had been afforded as a gratuity in the past, you are saying that the playerbase should not only pay their subscriptions, but also give them even more money via ads and start paying for content that had previously been free? For someone who doesn't have a lot of money you sure seem to want to throw it around.
Never mind that, How long have you been playing games? Not trying to be a rear but most people that have played games for a long while know that until something is actually released then it isn't a fact, they have not brought VEATs into Issue 12 just yet. Why? Where is Issue 12? It will get here when they release it and until the VEATs show up in it then they haven't been brought anywhere except "up" (there are still a lot of ways for them to be "pushed back" and what if they do release them all kinds of buggered for Issue 12, won't that be fun?).
Who said that the revenue generated from the costume pack did in fact help bring the yet to be released VEATs out sooner? The same company that is already moving towards double tacking funds and now releasing the RMT model in force on it's customers? Ad and Sales 101 "Do not make your customers feel that you are forcing them to spend as it will only lead to resentment and in turn loss of sales. Instead make them want to spend, make them feel as if every fiber in their body is telling them they MUST have whatever it is you are selling, this will lead to not only a bigger customer base at the start of the business day but also a more loyal customer base at the close of it."
I'm not going to tell you that I started charging for what had been free just to turn around and thank you for my new car as it is bad for business. Again, NCSoft is a business. It isn't anyones friend, it doesn't care about anyones issues unless they can make money off of them (can anyone blame them? I surely don't, look at the mental health profession and begrudge them too if you do).
5. "Also don't forget that NCsoft is Korean based, and they've got one of the biggest mmo's for the asian market (Lineage 2) so it's not like the NCcoins are aimed for the US/EU market, it's just another feature for the companys devs to use."
So because they are Korean based they aren't going to try to make money wherever they can? Uhm, Ok.
Also if the coins aren't being marketed to the western markets (meaning EU/US) Then why give a press release not only in English from the North American NCSoft Headquarters but also send it out to what are generally considered to be western market based gaming sites? Why also tell people that they are in fact going to market it to the EU/US and fit it into any game they can? Don't believe me? Believe Chris Chung, President of NCSoft-North America:
ON IMPLEMENTATION
“With the release of Exteel and NCcoin micro-transaction system, we at NCsoft North America are taking this opportunity to really focus on improving our game infrastructure, service and overall customer experience.”
“NCsoft has grown its game catalogue to the point where we are now not just offering individual products, but a service. NCcoin will serve as an important part of making NCsoft’s service easier to use by our customers and more efficient for NCsoft to add new content.”
Sure looks like it is being marketed to the EU/US to me, Mr. Chung went on to say....
ON WHICH GAMES FIT NCCOIN
“NCcoin will not be retrofitted in games that have business models that do not work with a micro-transaction system. We will, however, work to have NCcoin incorporated in as many of our games as possible, and what role NCcoin will play with our future console offerings have yet to be determined. NCcoin does fit perfect for some of the free-to-play and download games we are developing, and gives players choice on how they want to play these games.”
Yup, marketed to EU/US players and implemented into anything that can support it according to him and you had best go ahead and bet on them putting coin and item ads into the high fantasy games as well (that is how it is done in the market they are trying to push).
Here is a fun bit directly from the PlayNC.com website "NCcoin is non-refundable and expires one (1) year after purchase date." So basically if you don't spend your (ingame) bank account by the time they think you should then they will do it for you. Sounds reasonable (LOL).
By this point I really have gotten the feeling that you haven't really stayed up with the NCSoft news, didn't read this press release in particular, and may have tripped over the reply button by accident...
"Speek for yourself, I dno't make misteaks." - fyerwall
Yes, i know they said that, but alot of people don't seem to believe so, so i chose to go with "their" version.
The devs said them self that the revenue gained from the wedding pack helped them push the VEAT into issue 12 instead of issue 13 as they had planned originally. They've been able to hire more people with the increased revenue, thus increasing productivy. Also we've got plenty of costumes for free, these were released for those who wanted something special to wear to the ingame event where sister psyche and manticore got married.
I just meant that it was amazing they didn't already have such a system in store being that it's the most common mmo-payment model in the asianmarket. As for the "NCcoin will not be retrofitted in games that have business models that do not work with a micro-transaction system. We will, however, work to have NCcoin incorporated in as many of our games as possible" I do believe he's talking about merging it with the store in GW and adding a store to their Dungeon runners game. I highly doubt they'll add it to games such as Tabula rasa, City of * and Lineage 2.
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Yes, i already paid a subscribtion, but if i can "pay more" without actully paying anything, i'll be happy to do so.Yes, i know they said that, but alot of people don't seem to believe so, so i chose to go with "their" version.
The devs said them self that the revenue gained from the wedding pack helped them push the VEAT into issue 12 instead of issue 13 as they had planned originally. They've been able to hire more people with the increased revenue, thus increasing productivy. Also we've got plenty of costumes for free, these were released for those who wanted something special to wear to the ingame event where sister psyche and manticore got married.
I just meant that it was amazing they didn't already have such a system in store being that it's the most common mmo-payment model in the asianmarket. As for the "NCcoin will not be retrofitted in games that have business models that do not work with a micro-transaction system. We will, however, work to have NCcoin incorporated in as many of our games as possible" I do believe he's talking about merging it with the store in GW and adding a store to their Dungeon runners game. I highly doubt they'll add it to games such as Tabula rasa, City of * and Lineage 2.
"Yes, i already paid a subscribtion, but if i can "pay more" without actully paying anything, i'll be happy to do so."
So you are going to give them something for nothing, That'll teach them whom they are dealing with.
You originally said "Even if all the cash doesn't go to the CoX devteam it'll still help them bring the content to the players faster." care to explain how exactly that works with "Yes, i know they said that, but alot of people don't seem to believe so, so i chose to go with "their" version." when their actual and factual version is that "the ad revenue generated would go back into CoX"? It doesn't.
"The devs said them self that the revenue gained from the wedding pack helped them push the VEAT into issue 12 instead of issue 13 as they had planned originally." You have already said that and it doesn't discount that it was and is a marketing spin. Do you honestly think that they made enough from those to actually do what they claimed? Hardly, what those actually are called is test sales or test marketing, they move to see what people actually will and will not pay for and then adjust the business model accordingly. Again, since Issue 12 is not out then you cannot reasonably say that the VEATs are in it. The VEATs look to be planned for it but until they are actually released with Issue 12 (and not incomplete/half done) then your using them as a backing for your position is more than a little flimsy at best.
"Also we've got plenty of costumes for free, these were released for those who wanted something special to wear to the ingame event where sister psyche and manticore got married." By this logic it is also a sound jump to say that people should be buying vet rewards because they just want something special. I know more than a few players that won't be happy if this comes to pass (and by this point can anyone honestly deny the possibility?).
"I just meant that it was amazing they didn't already have such a system in store being that it's the most common mmo-payment model in the asianmarket. As for the "NCcoin will not be retrofitted in games that have business models that do not work with a micro-transaction system. We will, however, work to have NCcoin incorporated in as many of our games as possible" I do believe he's talking about merging it with the store in GW and adding a store to their Dungeon runners game. I highly doubt they'll add it to games such as Tabula rasa, City of * and Lineage 2."
First, this isn't an asian market so there is nothing amazing about it. Second, You can think in one hand and believe in the other but the safe money is that you are rolling snake-eyes when the shot callers have already said what is what. "NCcoin will not be retrofitted in games that have business models that do not work with a micro-transaction system. We will, however, work to have NCcoin incorporated in as many of our games as possible" Meaning that it is a logical step to make certain Costumes, Costume Parts, and Enhancements purchasable via NCCoins. Maybe they'll even include Power sets and ATs to the coinable list. Wow, can it be that easy to fit this into games already released? Damn skippy it can, If a game can sell items that have an amount of uses that you have to repurchase for a several bucks a pop then you had better believe thay can find a way to squeeze it in if they really want.
"Speek for yourself, I dno't make misteaks." - fyerwall
On another side are the folks who demand the whole point of an MMORPG is to explore and be online with friends, that grinding is nothing more than a broken game mechnanic. They don't play to earn anything, they play to play. Having the most uber gear is not important, but having decent gear that enables them to play in the world successfully is important not for the gears sake, but for the mechanics of the game. They want nothing to do with grinding and there's enough content that isn't grinding to make the game enjoyable for this group.
I have seen one thread after another degenerate into the first group completely bashing the second group and the second group going on the defensive and then bashing the first group.
I see the validity in both positions. I think NCSoft is taking the first steps to accomodate both groups and the wide diversity in between. It's the power of "AND" vs. the limitations of "OR." For polarized groups it's always it has to be EITHER this way OR that way... no room to have it both ways.
So, to respond to "Why bother to earn anything when you can just outright buy it?" My answer is because there are many people who play MMO's who don't see 'earning' as the primary point of the game. I'm sure that will set you off... it usually does set of the 'earning' crowd who can only see their perspective...
My point is, it can be both. No one is writing a rule book that says it must be either/or. You want to earn it? Fine- go earn it. You rather buy it? Fine- go buy it. To each his own.
No animosity required.
A game developer can't satisfy both groups though.As one of the players from the "earning it " group, I will never play a MMOG which condones and/or sponsors RMT. It's a basic principle of design which makes the game unplayable for me. Most of us"earner" types feel this strongly about it.
I think some of the people panicking or getting upset don't realize that this will probably only be for the free to play games such as Dungeon Runners and Exsteel. I doubt very much we'll see these coins going to use in City of Heroes for example.
In DR or Ex I don't see this as being a problem. Both games are 100% free to play, so they have to get a little income somehow. Now if this crosses over into City of Heroes or Guild Wars, then I am gonna have a problem with it ....
This is precisely the "better than thou" type attitude that perfectly represents the 'earning it' group and that sets the animosity in motion.
I'm going to guess that all the folks who are predicting the demise of the RMT / Item Mall model in America and "the West" are going to be very disheartened by things to come. Bottom line is that the target demographic for MMO's in the U.S. is saturated and tapped. Subscriptions are not growing at the pace in the U.S. that they were 3 or 5 or even 9 years ago. Game publishers are in the business of making money, this means finding ways to increase market share or broadening the target demographic successfully.
Free to play / RMT based games are the wave of the future that will open the door to a massively untouched demographic here in the States and Europe. It's time has come (not before now though) but as it gains momentum, the model is going to be embraced by an entirely new breed of online gamer.
For every subscriber, there are 5 people waiting to play who will inevitably use RMT along the way, whether they start off intending to or not. These are the same people who cannot conceive of committing to $14.95/month subscription to play a game; who think the subscription model is ridiculous.
Don't make the mistake of thinking there is no market for a well-tuned RMT model in the U.S. You just haven't seen the market yet... because the market for RMT would never subscribe for a game stating their position as follows:
"I will never play a MMOG which condones and/or sponsors subscriptions. It's a basic principle of design which makes the game unplayable for me. It's ridiculous for a company to force me to subscribe in order to play their game."
I support this IF NCSoft only allow buying of nonsical stuff, like different costumes, ingame pets, housing and the like. The moment you can buy, lets say top of the line equipment ingame, ingame money etc. the game is ruined. Why? Cause then only the players with the biggest wallet will be successful ingame. What is the fun in playing a game when everyone around you is running around with The Sword of 1000000 Cuts, donning the Armour of 10 million AC while you are running around with Wooden Stick of Bluntness, and Saggy Clothes? Eventually all players will bump into pvp and then the gross inbalance will be there for all to see.
Nope, the players supporting this is the new crowd of mmo players, grown up on WoW which give most players instant gratification. The same kinds of players using wallhacks, exploits and aimbots to be competitive online. They somehow justify their behavior with that they got a 'life' and by that dont have much time to play. They say that they cant compete with the kid who spend 40+ hours a week playing their mmo. Guess what, most of us cant. Most of us dont spend even a third of that time online each week and still we somehow manage to stay competitive. If the kid run around with the best equipment in the game cause he spend so much time online, well...he deserve it for all the time invested getting it. The RMT crowd doesn't. You want something, work for it.
If NCSoft on the other hand put this into their subscription based games, I'm outta there fast. Currently subbed to COH. If I see NCSoft start RMT for it, I will hit the cancel button so fast my mouse will explode.
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Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
It all depends on the game design ... if the game is designed around micro payment I don't see a problem.