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De-Mystifying WOW, and why it wont be de-throned nonetheless
Elikal
Member UncommonPosts: 7,912
We all have to admit it, whatever we feel and think about WOW, it overshadows all we do and see it here like a giant. Now we as small ants can hate the mountain, but for the time being it will be there. My own personal stance towards WOW is entirely neutral, I dont hate nor love it. I played it about 2 months or so up to level 45 (Nightelf Druid), mainly because a good RL friend was there daily, but it never appealed me enough to stay. But since then I watched it closely and get regular reports and watch it with friends playing.
There has been much rumor and hearsay spread about WOW, wether in praise or condemnation. Anytime you enter a beta, you can bet a VAST time of OOC chat is about WOW. It seems even those who hate it cant stop talking about it, and thats some not so small success in itself. I mean, the sheer numbers must be disheartning for every MMO developer to begin today. How can one stand in the face of 10 million subscribers? No matter how cool and smooth they talk I am sure inside they are all in "shock and awe".
Lets start to take down some myths about WOW.
- WOW was so bug-free and complete
We hear that myth often. Sure, it wasnt bug ridden like Vanguard, but the truth is, it was FAR from bug free. When I spoke to friends who were in since the first days, and compared it to the first days of EQ2 we didnt find such a big difference. Sure, WOW caught up with most bug soon enough, but other MMOs did that as well. Like all MMOs, many features, especially central one like the skill tree came MUCH later and were NOT in the game at launch! Other features they spoke about, like housing, never ever entered the game.
- WOW is easy and carebearish
Sorry, but thats blatant ridiculous. It is true WOW has a much easier learning curve. It has a great tutorial and leads new players slow, step by step into the game. But ask anyone of the high end players, wether they go to difficult dungeons or raids or PVP, to get all that high end stuff is a LOT of HARD WORK. It is true there is something for less versed players, but all high end gear is attained only but very hard gaming.
- WOW is for kids only
Likely the most stupid assumption. First, every experience with players shows me, there is nothing wrong with kids in the first places. Older ppl are by chance just as immature or aggressive than kids. And beyond that, its just not true. There are a LOT of older people, parents especially playing with their kids or big raid guilds with ppl in their 20ies to 40ies. Its merely a myth. On the contrary, if WOW has accomplished ANYTHING in that matter, it is that OLDER people suddenly started to play a MMo who never before had!
So then, what DID World of Warcraft make so succesful? Well, its five simple things, no real mystery here.
1.) WOW is playable by EVERY computer.
You might say you dont like the comic style, it isnt my thing either. But currently LOTRO has proven that even with low polygon counts you can create VERY beautiful game worlds due to todays standarts and STILL make a MMO relatively broad accessible. Its just very difficult when a game like once EQ2 or later Vanguard only runs *somewhat* on high end machines at launch. And as I said, you CAN make beautiful landscapes with less demand, see LOTRO landscapes.
2.) WOW has wiped out all non-fun elements
Its something of a mystery to me, why so many developers STILL cling to elistist definitions of MMO gaming and the whine when only a few hundred ppl are on their servers. So many MMOs still have this concept you have to go a long pathway to find and begin the fun. Be it travel time, boss mob respawn timers or quests in your vincintiy. When you play WOW, you can log in and just START the fun, you dont have to read lengthy internet walkthroughs just to know what to do! You dont need to travel many hours over the world to find your group. There is always something to do RIGHT THERE AND NOW. Surprise, surprise, but most *working* ppl dont enjoy wasting their time with tedious things.
3.) WOW offers something for all ranges of difficulty
Again it eludes me why both devs and gamers are so religiously fixated that a game is either carebear OR hardcore. Why can a game not offer something for ALL levels of difficulty. Thats what WOW did. You can do something if you have just one hour and you are a Mom who barely has used a computer for a short time, and also if you are a MMO geek playing for years and aim for that uber raid prize. There are very difficult to attain long-term rewards who need many months of work and short-term goal, giving you just some small fun reward for that one hour you had. So many games only offer mid and long term rewards. Those who have just one or two hours end mostly with a few badger claws or skeleton bones for the vendor. EQ2 is particularly PLAGUED with this awkward philosophy, and all follow-up games like VG. People want something small, even if only symbolic for their small time they sacrifice, they dont want to log out with empty hands. It doesnt mean those with much time and effort to contibute dont have high goals, but unfortunately many gamers are unable to jump over this merely ideological gap.
4.) WOW always has a new, higher toy to fight for
I find this the most evil and disgusting part about WOW, seriously. One of the MMOs I loved most was City of Heroes, because it had NO items and gear at all! No greed, no comparision, no hamster-wheel run for the new EVEN BIGGER shoulderpads! But it is of course a part of their success, like it or not. You always have some new toy for farm faction for. Really evil. But it works, at least in numbers.
5.) The WOW world is easy to get into
If you enter the world of Azeroth and play one of their many races, you have a sort of cultural reference which is very easy to understand, a social code which is plain and direct. Take for example Trolls. If you see how they walk and dress, how they live and speak, you get a feeling for them right away. They are very archetypical, somehow like a mix of Raggae-beach-hash-smokers and punk crossover. Its something you instantly recognize as a stereotype, and WOW plays with those stereotypes ideally. Its something everyone can identify somehow, not just some few. If you take AoC, for instance, its all a very grim and fucked up world. Now some may like that, but the scope of characters and cultures to chose is WAY narrower. And you need much more specialized knowledge to get in, as with many other MMOs. Its more the worlds mental and cultural design which is cartoony in WOW than the mere look.
Now you may all like these points or not, the fact is, they can not be repeated nor can they be nullified. WOW is going to stay, and its going to be "king of the hill" for a long time. Thats a view I dont really like, because despite the several good things WOW has brought to the MMO genre, it also prevents any other MMO from really growing. There just AREN'T ANOTHER 10 million players not playing a MMO who can be brought into any new title! And likely no masses will leave WOW in any perceivable time. Its sad, because like a big tree casts a dark shadow preventing small plants from growing WOW, who once had brought progress to MMOs now hinders it. Who or what can really dethrone WOW *someday* eludes me, but I dont see it anywhere anytime. Neverthless, it is really time to stop all those presumptions about WOW and look at it realistic. We never gonne evolve past it until we do.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Comments
Nice post.
IMHO the next really successful MMO in the genre will look something like WoW but with the following.
Diverse gameplay (meaning not necessarily restricted to combat) WoW, like most MMO's tends to focus exclusively on combat
Less tedious...Yes, WoW like all MMOs can be just as much a mind numbing rat killing grind as L2.
Dynamic - players having more impact on the gameworld.
I just wanted to comment on your "myth" part on "Bug Free" - I was there at launch. WoW wasn't "bug free" but it didn't have performance issues like VG or many other games. In fact EQ2 launched in the same month and it was a no brainer, fight trying to get EQ2 at the time to run or fight in WoW and have a fun game experience.
The bugs where generally minor and Bliz was quick to knock them out. Personally I never experienced anything serious in the first 8 months of play, in fact I couldn't even name an example. It was missing a lot of its key features at launch however. There was very little if any end game raids and PvP was community driven open world type skimishing as the battle grounds didn't exist yet.
It took them round 6 months to even start getting the basics of their current endgame in place but because everything else went so smooth, it seems people were generally much more forgiving. That leads to the "runs great on any PC". Its been my observation over the last 7 years of MMO gaming that players are much more forgiving when they can actually run a game at launch....go figure.
Nothing pisses people off more then dropping 50 bucks/Euro on a game they figure they can run based on the published system specs only to find out it doesn't work. Kills games everytime. In fact I can't think of a single poor performing launched game that has recovered. You would think devs would learn by now....
Not a wow basher here, but if you don't find WoW to be completely carebareish then you have NO F***ING CLUE what real pvp is.
"It is in your nature to do one thing correctly; Before me, you rightfully tremble. But, fear is not what you owe me. You owe me awe." ~Francis Dolarhyde
You can say whatever you want to defend WoW, here is why it is successful...
1.) Kids can compete with adults. WOW REQUIRES ZERO SKILL OR THINKING.
2.) CPU specs are low.
That's why. The game is built for a child to navigate, women can get into it as well. It's like the Super Mario Brothers of the MMO world. It reaches ALL genre of people. it just has an enormous customerbase to pull from. My friends 10 year old was getting addicted to it so he grounded him from it. The 10 year old had several toons with elite levels...
Personally, I want to play a game with adults, not kids. WoW isn't for me. However, WoW clearly is for 10 million other people.
Children, women, Asian subscribers, and first time MMO players can easily get into this game. That is why it is so successful. Plus, Blizzard provides quality content and a very dumbed-down level.
Tecmo Bowl.
Also, Blizzard has been doing this for years...
Go back to Warcraft 1 - 3 and compare them to the other RTS games on the market at that time such as the "Age" series and "Red Alert" and the same thing happens.
Warcraft 1 - 3 are dumbed-down, provide you comparitively fewer options, much less depth, much less realism, and caters to a younger crowd. Warcraft in its RTS form provided 1/10th the depth of Age and Red Alert yet it sold millions because it appealed to a younger audience and was SIMPLE to use.
Starcraft was slightly more complex but also developed a cult following and an older RTS crowd.
Blizzard simply took this principle of simple gameplay and targeting a mass playerbase and applied it to their MMO. Props to them, they have been doing this very well for over a decade now.
Tecmo Bowl.
HAHAHA here we go with the wow bashing. What happened to the so called next gen mmos that were going to totally destroy wow? By all accounts Aoc is another Vanguard waiting to happen. It was hyped as the next big pvp game LMAO. So much for the promises.
Looks like we have to wait for another game with the crazy hype again rofl. FUNNY HOW ALL THE aOC FANBOIS are starting wow bashing threads all over again to deflect from the Aoc failure, wow has nothing to do with Failcoms inept abilites and broken promises. Infact you should start threads on demistyfyming Failcoms lies and overhype.
WoW is for lazy morons that's why it's a success.
Wow isn't easy? Wow is like a puzzle with 10 pieces. Some people think it's difficult, but I prefer more pieces
Yeah unless Funcom gets a grip on their client and makes AoC more graphically stable for the average CPU they might just be Vanguard #2.
Still doesn't change the fact that WoW is a game for kids. : )
Tecmo Bowl.
- WOW was so bug-free and complete
Thats not true. It is today very stable. But so are most other MMOs that still run. Even Vanguard is very stable now, even if the polish there seems to be not finished yet; for example, they currently fight against hitching.
- WOW is easy and carebearish
Thats true. OK I'm not in position to have it experienced myself, but I heard it from every being that has played WoW.
Of course PvP is harder. But thats because you fight against humans. Thats not unique to WoW. And WoW raids arent better than raids in other games, for all I know. Quite on the contrary.
- WOW is for kids only
Its not for kids only - but it CAN BE PLAYED BY KIDS. Something thats much harder in other games.
- WOW is playable by EVERY computer
Thats true.
- WOW has wiped out all non-fun elements
Ok now thats very subjective. Again, I havent played the game myself, but from what I've heard, WoW contains faction grinds like any other MMO out there, and it contains an endless raiding endgame.
- WOW offers something for all ranges of difficulty
Nope. Definitely not. Thats a major complaint about the game.
- WOW always has a new, higher toy to fight for
Errm... I guess so. Because all MMOs have that - no ?
But in fact, WOW doesnt deliver that much new - I heard they still have no housing, for example. So its all down to new dungeons and stuff again.
- The WOW world is easy to get into
Maybe. More importantly, it is beginner friendly, for all I heard about it.
WoW is a great game, I don't play it but I did a long time ago, Back in 2005. It was really fun to play easy to get into, It does not feel like there is pressure to get to the end game and join an elite guild to get anything, In WoW you can get great gear with PVP, Reputation, or Raids with groups. Something that I found unique to this game 3 ways to do your end game.
The grind is some what long but not so long that it demoralizes you. Giving you bonus XP for time time you are not online really helps keep you going. One expansion and a level raise every what...close to 2 years. Is really a great idea because people feel their work is actually going to last a while before it gets outdated. And that work is not all that work to be honest. I did raids at 60 like Molten core back in the day and it was not really hard...once you already did the entire thing once.
- WOW was so bug-free and complete
You can talk to ppl all day long if you want. I am a programmer and I was in the beginnings of WoW. From 3 months before release to 3 months after release. WoW was about as complete and bug free you can ask for in a newly release MMO. There were VERY VERY few bugs in the beginning compared to any other MMO game on the market. There were quite a few imbalances however. An imbalance is in no way shape or form a bug.
- WOW is easy and carebearish
Easy, very. High end content is about as easy as they come. I have watched friends fight the big big bosses at 60 then bigger ones after the expansion at 70. Compared to other games high end content. It was like swatting a fly. (See L2 or others)
Carebearish, EXTREMELY. Absolutely no death penalty. You run back as a ghost and your back in the fight. Battlegrounds is just a minigame and has no effect on anything other than how much you play it. There is no real PVP in WoW what so ever. When most think PVP they thing UO or EVE online. There PVP makes a difference and you better keep your ass alive or you just lost weeks or months of gameplay in a single swoop.
Only in respect to how buggy it will be at release.
At very least Vanguard offers a huge gameworld with housing etc, 15 complex and interesting classes, 19 races, and a lot of other options (Crafting, Harvesting, Diplomacy), etc.
While AoC, for example, has 3 races. Should I now laugh or weep ? The HUGE original setting that Conan would have offered to a developer with the smallest sense for storytelling and roleplay dumbed down to THREE RACES ?? Ouch. Just OUCH.
For the record also I did try the WoW trial along with LoTR and EQ2 and of the three I put my money on EQ2 although even that did not keep my interest very long. Despite the fact they are not strictly massively multiplayer, I found guildwars and DDO to be the most enjoyable of more recent games, I think DDO could have beat it all for me if it was not so damn repetative, adopting instead a more Diablo 2 way of completing the quests. It was the endless repeating of the same quest in order to be high enough level to continue, that's what killed it for me.
I'll be hoping the best of AoC too but if not I'll just be keeping an eye on the beta for Stargate Worlds.
Now first off I'd like to say that I play WoW and enjoy it for what it is.....a casual game but I'm also a Lineage 2 veteran and I have to say that I agree with this 100%. The term "Carebear" has exclusively to do with PvP and nothing to do with the learning curve or how easy the quests are. In this respect WoW is VERY carebear. A non carebear game is a game that I can lay the smack down on someone for running their mouths anywhere whether they agree to the PvP or not except maybe a few and I mean a FEW safe zones like cities and they will receive a decent penalty for being killed. With WoW's very structured and extremely limited PvP with almost no death penalty it's about the most carebear game I've ever played. Not that there is anything wrong with that mind you, WoW is what it is and should be judged by that.
Edit: And please don't tell me there are WoW PvP servers as I know this already. The problem with a PvE game with PvP servers is that it swings to the total other end of the PvP spectrum. The PvP looses all structure and the whole server devolves into one giant gankfest. A good PvP game still has some structure to the PvP to control it but doesn't limit it nearly to the point a PvE game does.
Bren
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This is brilliant. You've never played the game, yet you have an opinion about it, because of what you heard.
Guess what - I heard you have 10 billion dollars and you're paying everyone who responds to this post 500k, so where's my check?
Looks like WOW advertisement.
Some people get so hung up on peoples age that they generalize way to much. Selling someone short just because they are young is ignorant. For example I watched a 9 year old kid win a match in Everquests best of the best competition against someone from one of my servers "uber guilds". I have also seen 40 year old people unable to grasp simple concepts like agro, pulling and crowd control. There are plenty of young, old, mature, immature, smart and stupid people playing every single MMO on the market right now. Kids can play WoW, because it was designed well and doesn't take a website tutorial to understand the basics of the user interface let alone any of the other archaic game mechanics.
Another thing I see people confusing is easy vs tedious. A game isn't more challenging just because it takes longer to level. I haven't seen a fantasy game mentioned yet that is harder than WoW is in terms of gameplay, but I have seen some that are straight up old fashion grind fests. While I am not some super gamer, it doesn't take much to find the sweet spot of button mashing to kill mobs endlessly to gain xp towards the next level. Just about every game out right now that I can think of is pretty much a rehash of Everquests combat system. All this leet talk about how hardcore or difficult these other games are is just nonsense. Having longer waits or more grind doesn't make a game more difficult, it just makes it more tedious.
It is all the little things that added up together make it a much better gaming experience than other games.
Thats like telling a pizzamaker his porridge sucks!!
Wow is a PVE that focus on end game raiding, not end game pvp. Its people like you who often cry about how imbar certain class are in pvp and it kinda ruins PVE for most of us. PVE is being nerfed for PVP reasons.
The devs at wow also changes the FOTM PVP class so they all take turns to pawn. All they did need to do is tweak that lil CD off your skill or duration time.
WOW raiding easy? SERIOUSLY! All it takes is ONE GUY....ONE GUY to screw up and the whole raid wipe. WOw raiding requires so much concentration during the end game raids. It requires so much addons its not even funny. You need to be very co-ordinated if u want to do the end game raids.....and most certainly U need to be able to multi task VERY VERY well. The ability to multi task is what sets good and poor players apart. You also need some good reaction time.
Some qualities of the wow GMs that other Gms can certainly learn from
1) There have been cases where people got their account "hacked". What these people did was to contact a GM, present their plight and the GM automatically restored their character from when it was last saved in their database. How cool is that? Some f2play games just leave you hanging.
2) Extremely efficient in deleting gold mailed by gold farmers. They are so efficient if you leave the gold in your mailbox any longer then 10 minutes it automatically get deleted. How do I know? I have ppl bit*ch to me about it all the time. Nice way to discourage the purchasing of gold if you ask me....but certainly not a way to totally stop it.
3) They are also very understanding when it comes to restoration of items or unbinding a wrongly assigned soulbound items. I have personally got a item restored to me when I 'accidentally" deleted it, and when I contacted a GM, he restored the item for me. There has also been a case when a item was accidentally misassigned and soulbound to someone else and when we contacted the gm, the item was unbound and mailed to the orignal recipient.
Of cause they have their cons but I'm too lazy to type that one out. And WOW isn't for kids or full of it. The average age in my raid guild was 21. Even if there were kids, most of them certainly conduct themselves very well.
You fail, you fail big time.. You fail bigger then USA did when trying the pig coast...
1,Nothing requires Zero "Skills" to play.
2, "kids" are able to compete with adults on almost every game, you think you need to be some kind of gineus to play AO,EQ 2 or something that follows the same path.
3, You faild to see all the "skilled" players and their videos that's been playing WoW for a long time.
You fail
I watched a 9 year old kid win a match in Everquests best of the best competition against someone from one of my servers "uber guilds". -Daffid011
Now that's just plain amazing, but I would never let my 9-year-old son be so involved in an MMORPG though.
I have also seen 40 year old people unable to grasp simple concepts like agro, pulling and crowd control. -Daffid011
LOL x Infinity, when I played WoW I saw that same thing happen.
"The best will have the best fans along with the best haters."
World of Warcraft has the most to offer in an MMORPG like the biggest library of Add-Ons, custom interfaces, binding as many buttons as you want to any key, building twinks, battlegrounds, pvp for gear, pve for gear, small scale dungeons, large scale dungeons, more quests than you can imagine, daily quests for gold and goodies, so many ways to build up your character (from spec to gear), the funniest and most annoying trade chat, the best Auction House system of any game, the best mailing system of any game (CoD FTW), you can see how any gear looks on your character with a simple click on a chat link or item (in a store, inventory or auction house), many different kinds of mounts for faster travel on land or air, the most in-depth and beneficial professions of any MMORPG, continual game patches to fix bugs and add new content to the game, fast Game Master responses, you can move around or jump around and still attack, pvp that involves MOVING AROUND (very rare in MMORPGs nowadayz), play on a server of your choice out of PvP/PvE/RP, play on a test realm with uber gear, an official forums where you use your in-game characters as an avatar, participate in special events and holidays full of fun toys (Beerfest FTW), you can even order a real life figurine of any of your characters, the best fan videos ever (machinima), and fat ugly orcs being on the same side as hot sexy blood elf chicks. Thus holds the Guiness Book of World Records: Videogames Most Subscribers in an MMORPG Record.
Currently Playing: 3ds Max 2009
Played and Loved: World of Warcraft, EVE Online, Warhammer Online
Best F2P MMO: Requiem Bloodymare
Want to Play: Aion (See Teaser), DCuniverseOnline (awesome gameplay videos)
Only in respect to how buggy it will be at release.
At very least Vanguard offers a huge gameworld with housing etc, 15 complex and interesting classes, 19 races, and a lot of other options (Crafting, Harvesting, Diplomacy), etc.
While AoC, for example, has 3 races. Should I now laugh or weep ? The HUGE original setting that Conan would have offered to a developer with the smallest sense for storytelling and roleplay dumbed down to THREE RACES ?? Ouch. Just OUCH.
huh.. Vanguard is a Fantasy Tolkian Game.. no wonder why they got 19 races... AOC is more like an Historic Game... don't expect any Elf in there.. there is just Humans... AOC got too.. Crafting, Harvesting.. Diplomacy? i don't think so... you can build building.... Housing then?.. for now you can't compare very well.. since you never played it..
The same thing was said about Everquest. The same arguements were made about Everquest. Where is Everquest now?
WoW will be de-throned....eventually. What will it take? Probably a miracle or Blizzard competing with itself, IE...a World of Starcraft or something. Also, the Bioware/Lucas Arts game could give it a run for its money, if done right that is. What the MMO market is missing right now is a good Sci-Fi genre MMO game w/PvE and PvP elements. We are also lacking a 'good' PvP game. Warhammer has the potential to fill that void.
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
i left the mmo gaming scene but i take a peek once i a while over on these forums to see whats up and every week i see a new wow post.when will you guys get it it is all news noone is saying anything smart about it it all has been said and done.
and btw even bad publicity is publicity so if you really hate wow as much as you say you do you will just erase it from you memory not post about it.
__________________________________
Remember the good old days when devs made games just for the sake of making a great game?
They are forever gone now all they care is about how much they can earn from them, if they can't make millions they won't make that game.
REMEMBER THE OLD DAYS AND REGRET THEY HAVE PASSED.
For the record also I did try the WoW trial along with LoTR and EQ2 and of the three I put my money on EQ2 although even that did not keep my interest very long. Despite the fact they are not strictly massively multiplayer, I found guildwars and DDO to be the most enjoyable of more recent games, I think DDO could have beat it all for me if it was not so damn repetative, adopting instead a more Diablo 2 way of completing the quests. It was the endless repeating of the same quest in order to be high enough level to continue, that's what killed it for me.
I'll be hoping the best of AoC too but if not I'll just be keeping an eye on the beta for Stargate Worlds.
I think you misunderstood what I was saying...
Of course women can play games that require thinking, probably more-so than men. I knew many female players in Pre-CU SWG who were powerful crafters and high level entertainers and tailors. Pre-CU SWG had a lot of female players actually.
However, they were mostly Star Wars fans. Women, typically, don't play hardcore video games. They just didn't grow up (for the most part) playing computer games... So Blizzard was VERY smart when they made their game equally attractive for women, who traditionally wouldn't play Blizzard's games.
There are a some very cool women out there who play video games like a lot of us guys do, but for the most part (like my wife) they don't seem to be interested in games. Now, if someone were to market to them that would mean a potentially massive customerbase. Blizzard seems to have had some success doing just that.
That was my point.
Tecmo Bowl.
I find the comment about women amazingly offensive, I'm not a raging feminist or anything but women -can- play a game that is not horrendously dumbed down too. It is more accurate to say first time gamers regardless of age, race or sex will have an easy time in WoW. A large number of children and women play plenty enough games to know what they are doing in something a litle more complicated.For the record also I did try the WoW trial along with LoTR and EQ2 and of the three I put my money on EQ2 although even that did not keep my interest very long. Despite the fact they are not strictly massively multiplayer, I found guildwars and DDO to be the most enjoyable of more recent games, I think DDO could have beat it all for me if it was not so damn repetative, adopting instead a more Diablo 2 way of completing the quests. It was the endless repeating of the same quest in order to be high enough level to continue, that's what killed it for me.
I'll be hoping the best of AoC too but if not I'll just be keeping an eye on the beta for Stargate Worlds.
I think you misunderstood what I was saying...
Of course women can play games that require thinking, probably more-so than men. I knew many female players in Pre-CU SWG who were powerful crafters and high level entertainers and tailors. Pre-CU SWG had a lot of female players actually.
However, they were mostly Star Wars fans. Women, typically, don't play hardcore video games. They just didn't grow up (for the most part) playing computer games... So Blizzard was VERY smart when they made their game equally attractive for women, who traditionally wouldn't play Blizzard's games.
There are a some very cool women out there who play video games like a lot of us guys do, but for the most part (like my wife) they don't seem to be interested in games. Now, if someone were to market to them that would mean a potentially massive customerbase. Blizzard seems to have had some success doing just that.
That was my point.
Just move off of the woman subject before someone like shae gets a hold of you....
As far as your pretty strong dislike for WoW, well each to his own. It has the misfortune of being overly successful, thats about all its guilty of.
Yes, its base and not very challenging but thats all old ground. It keeps many more people interested in MMOs then any other game ever did. Thats what counts. Given the endless parade of trash MMOs released over the last 4 years its a wonder anyone even invest in these games anymore.
The core of much of the WoW dislike from MMO players I suspect is that WoW changed how devs make their games. So much that many of them even altered existing games like SWG and that caused a lot of resentment. Either way, like it or not WoW changed the course of the genre for better or worse.
IMHO, GW had an equal if not more influential impact on MMO design, devs discovered that players will tolerate massive instanced, linear, restricted, compartmentalized, lobby based games instead of virtual worlds....GW gets a lot less attention then WoW but had just a strong impact if not more so.