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Why WoW ruined MMO's forever....
Hrayr2148
Member Posts: 649
This isn't a flame WoW thread, because I played wow for 3 years until I quit in November of 2007.
The point is this. Because WoW is soo popular and is making soo much money, a lot of new MMO developers are trying to be WoW-Clones with minor innovations as enough "new"-ness to them to attract a player base.
It takes at least 3-4 years to develope an MMO and a lot of invested time/money. You don't want to mess up because messing up means having the company go under, or at a deep financial loss.
So, you use an MMO formula that has been proven to work because there is so much to lose if you get it wrong. Which MMO has been successful? WOW, so all you see is WoW clones in terms of level progression, story presentation, quests, interface design, etc.
The damage done by this is two fold. The players who played WoW for 3-4 years are always going to compare every other MMO they play to WoW, and if it's "too" different or just not what they're used to, they're not going to give it a chance. Developers are always going to be placed under pressure from company heads that finance the project to make a profitable game, and that means they will want the developer to make a "Wow like game."
This is horrible for the MMO industry. You're not going to get a lot of variety in gameplay. Look at warhammer, it's as clonish as you can get.
The only advice i can give is approach a game with an open mind. Don't think every MMO should be like wow. If you love WoW then play it. If you're desiring something new, expand out and try new things. Hopefully there will be a market that is created for other types of MMO's so that we don't see WoW wannabes the next 10 years.
Comments
Actually, Wows interface is originally looted from everquest. And the level system is older, played a bit Meridian 59 and Linage. But it's true that there is litle originality in the bussiness, if you think Wow is the worlds best game then you should play... Wow.
At least AoC combat system is refreshing, you cant watch telly and use a macro with one button to press as some guys i know does in other MMO (i hate when the tank or healer does that).
See..once upon a time there were things called table-top RPGs. They were 100000000% open. Anyone could do nearly anything, depending on their DM's rules
Someone closed the idea, and put it online on a computer, dumbing it down to make it more accessible. They called them MUDS. And there were MUSHes and MOOs too, where peopple couple build and craft and RP in a huge, open ionteractive world with little restriction.
Some British dude cloned them, and added some (then) pretty graphics to make it more accessible. They called it Ultima Online.
Years later, Sony got into the game, and closed UO. They made the graphics pretty but dumbed down the content to make it friendlier to more people.They called it EQ.
Few years down the line, Blizzard took the formula, dumbed it down EVEN MORE, and called it WoW.
But yeah, everyone cloned off WoW and only WoW.
Honestly this has been going on for a decade or two. It still amazes me anyone is surprised.
That said I totally agree with the OP's last paragraph. Judge the game by itself, for itself.
I'm sure Blizzard devs are to blame for making a popular game champ.
Might want to change your subject title a little because it sounds outright ridiculous.
Let me give you a hand: "Greedy mmo devs who simply wants to cash in on WoW's success ruined mmo forever". There, that's more in-line with what you're talking about.
Hmm, how much dumber can it get?
Also, please don't tempt developers, they might answer that question for you.
You actually need to do some reading before you post. Otherwise, you would just look stupid, especially the line about UO and EQ.
Do you even know what UO brought to the gaming world? UO was incredibly innovated even at today standard.
Do you even know what EQ brought to the MMO world? What Verant did at that time was revolutionary.
imo the biggest reason it is made MMOs too easy.
Player made housing? It was in MOOs and MUSHes and MUDs years before. Open FFA PvP? Ditto. Ever hear of something called Gemstone III? Or Meridian 59, as someone else pointed out? Or Federation Space, for us older AOLers.
Many of these games were 100% free-form. All UO added was a graphics component, and a little more structure. EQ did the same. Don't get me wrong they were big leaps forward, but each game built off the bones of the predecessors.
I guess my point is it's nothing new. AoC is a semi-WoW-clone with better graphics and an innovative combat system (the other major feature, cities, are nothing new since SWG and AO both had them ages ago). WoW was an EQ clone with a deeper storyline and (supposed) more focus on factioned PvP. EQ was a UO close that was safer to play and prettier. UO was a good MUD with some graphics. I just hate people griping about WoW clones when every MMO made clone off of thigns much, much older than WoW.
Big thanks to the small crowd of "hardcore mmo gamers" thinking tedium and time-consuming equates to challenging.
Ummm...its true the games following WoW are to blame for the state they are in. WoW came along and did something right, it appealed to the masses (something an MMO had yet to do btw whatever u may think). So honestly if u look at regular business trends the subsiquent followers would do the same or something quite similar. AoC even offers nothing more than some city building and directional combat ( i dont care as much for graphics as much as gameplay). The only ones to blame are investors and game companies that wont step out on a line and make something diff from what works...look at LotRO....WoW model 2nd most popular game.
I really dont know why ppl hate WoW they did alot to bring money to the genre give them respect on that atleast. At the very least the money brought to the genre has brought addtitional investors that werent there before so enjoy the fact that there is more money in the field. The truth is that anything truely innovative will have to be a complete risk, moving from the WoW concept will be seen as such by any business investor...so dont be surprised if change comes slow, and if AoC and WAR flop...it will be even longer, they are the only games (BEING THEY ARE NOT ASIAN MADE AND UNIQUE) that offer anything diff from WoW gamestyle. So rather then spend alot of time breaking those games down, do all you can to support them, b/c to be honest they will help move the MMO industry further, its simple business ideal...they do what works and what makes money...if AoC and WAR make money u can expect change if they done....more WoW clones...please support the new ideas.
WoW brought mmos into main stream. Yes, WoW was my first mmo. But when i looked at EQ and EQ II, it seemed to time consuming for me. Blizzard made an mmo for casual players. I define myself as a casual player most of the time. I enjoyed my time in wow and had a blast. The reason that I think that the mmo community doesn't like WoW because they want a very time consuming game. I could come home after work and play for 4 hrs or so and have a blast palying with friends.
Now everyone (casual) is looking for the same experience come home turn on the game and just plain have fun. No worries about system requirements, no worries about ridiculous quests that take hours upon hours to complete. Just good gameplay. I don't know about ya'll but I found WoW to be less linear than some MMO's I tried after I got bored of playing wow. I.E. EQ, EQII, COH/COV, etc.. I just didn't find the casual game play I was looking for that I enjoyed so much in WoW.
Am I a WoW Fanboi? I was. Am I playing WoW currently? Nope. Looking for a new game.
BTW How did wow come up in the AOC forums anyways?
What's this got to do with AOC? Last I checked AOC wasn't trying to jump on the WOW bandwagon like EQ2, LOTRO , and WAR.
So it's totally a ripoff of WoW. Cause WoW was the only game that ever had that stuff!
Its true i have found with WoW that i have a more diverse questing/leveling options than what games now days offer. Isnt that sad? Something that should bother people hoping the genre develops further?
AoC offers nothing new beyond the simplistic directional combat and the city building (which you could do in UO btw if you took the time). Its really nothing really new, WAR's saving factor is that i plays off ppls desire to PVP 100% unabashed pvp RVR goodness that some will love and a few will hate. You will find i think that graphics if decent dont make or break a game. WAR is going to beat AoC, simple as. WAR was very smart in setting back release. Though for WoW there are a few classes that are already in line like the rogue...when a class can be specced almost anyway u like and still work, u know it is balanced to work...its the rest that need the tweek. Trust me u will in future patches see few rogue changes compared to others
its not that some classes are OP'd its just that some are more refined and closer to the ideal than the rest. and all you WoW hater...they have had years to perfect what these new games are going ( if still around) spend the next several years perfecting. I laugh as players flock to the newest shiny thing beucase thats what it is... but NO MMO EVER HAS BEEN RELEASED IN A FINISHED PRODUCT STATE get ready i hope AoC works...but ure in for a rough ride.
Player made housing? It was in MOOs and MUSHes and MUDs years before. Open FFA PvP? Ditto. Ever hear of something called Gemstone III? Or Meridian 59, as someone else pointed out? Or Federation Space, for us older AOLers.
Many of these games were 100% free-form. All UO added was a graphics component, and a little more structure. EQ did the same. Don't get me wrong they were big leaps forward, but each game built off the bones of the predecessors.
I guess my point is it's nothing new. AoC is a semi-WoW-clone with better graphics and an innovative combat system (the other major feature, cities, are nothing new since SWG and AO both had them ages ago). WoW was an EQ clone with a deeper storyline and (supposed) more focus on factioned PvP. EQ was a UO close that was safer to play and prettier. UO was a good MUD with some graphics. I just hate people griping about WoW clones when every MMO made clone off of thigns much, much older than WoW.
I agree with the what you are saying here. There isnt alot original anymore it is all built off its predecessors.But EQ was not an UO clone. EQ was in development before UO was released so how could it have been a clone? Plus they really were nothing alike. Both built off Meridian 59 and Muds, but EQ had much more D&D influence then UO did.
But ya, i agree with you.
i think WOW is the best mmorpg not to mention it get all the great idea from all mmorpg at that time.
So other company see WOW so successful then they will make some similar game.. isn't there alot of industry do the same thing? There is vast of consumer out there..
Yep i think you will find that MMO's will progress much like humanity (seeings as MMO's are deeply tied into everyday people). MMO's will not vary far beyond the set standard but bit by bit....a few generations later u will see a massive diff. But to be honest u wont see the difference for a bit. Im sorry but you wont its no financially viable to risk it, unless u get a bunch of millionaire nerds together that want to make a game. It is what it is....AoC offers nothing more than directional combat and better graphics, and WAR just updates and changes DAoC....will be slow but steady so stick with it.
lol u guys are funny. Aren't games SUPPOSE to evolve based on their predecessors? Rome wasn't built in one day, humans didn't go from monkeys to what we are like today over night... Just because WoW is well known, doesn't it is the only game that other companies are basing their game on right now. All games are based on games before, with one or two added elements, except most people who play them never heard about the games they are based on.
Take the RTS/FPS genre for example, have they ever had anything SUPER innovative ever since the genres first emerged? RTS is still about building units and collecting resources, FPS is still about point and shoot. Each new game in both genres add one or two minor things which are new, and improve the graphics. Yet each generation of these games are still loved/played by many people.
As long as they fixed/improved mistakes made by their predecessors, and further perfected the genre, im willing to play the game no matter how big of a copy of WoW it is.
Just because the MMO genre is fairly new, and the success of WoW has set some standards to the genre, it doesn't mean every game from now on that use these standards are a copycat of wow. Dune and Doom created/popularized the RTS/FPS genre, but do you see people calling every RTS/FPS a copy of these games? I mean they still have "features" such as buying a gun and shoot, collecting resource and building units, but we don't cry about it...
There were 2 particular things that came together for WoW - kind of a perfect storm scenario...
1. HUGE following from RTS: diablo, warcraft, and starcraft will always be considered flagship games for their time.
2. The advent of high speed internet... people completely miss this one... when UO and even EQ were first out, everyone was on dialup... THE WEB has exploded, so of course there are more online gamers.
Yes WoW is a good game, though definitely not the quality game it once was. It is very casual friendly, but don't under-estimate the exponential boost points 1 & 2 gave this game. EQ2 absolutely shot themselves in the foot as competition.. WoW won by default.
No you area bit mistaken, its not that i think games evolve so slow, is just that they do. Note according to the population they are evolving to slowly. Diff. between evolution and MMO's that we pay for one and seeing as the $$$$ isnt what it used to be means that the decisions matters more. If games hope to take from the big mama WoW ( hate it all you like really please do they stil lhave over 10 mil subscirbers). They need to do something very different. To bad, but they will have to, WoW is the 10 ton gorilla in the room, hate it as u may it is true. Im sorry and this is a prediction (and i may be very wrong and catch alot of fire) but AoC will not be more than mediocre success. WoW will still dominate until something totally diff. comes along and shifts the genre. WoW hasnt ruined a thing, it did as much as it did completely right. The burden falls on the new games to change and improve. Goodluck!!
10 million people made WOW what it is. Blame them.
I remember seeing posts like this about EQ. Same ol, same ol. Best of current generation (economically speaking) taints most future projects till something better comes out.
The problem is simple and exactly the same as in other genre of games. See doom clones, c&c/starcraft clones, etc, etc. Its easier to follow than lead. Until someone gets some balls and leads no one is going to take a serious piece of the warcraft pie. fin.
Shadus
and that number right there shows that it can put the MASSIVE into MMO
Big thanks to the small crowd of "hardcore mmo gamers" thinking tedium and time-consuming equates to challenging.
That's just bullshit. EQ did NOT remove the tedium and time-consuming nature of MMOs. In fact, I would argue that EQ was an even bigger time sink than UO was, it was just easier. WoW did not remove the tedium and time-consuming nature of MMOs. I think most here would argue that it's even more of a time-sink than ever before. Grind to 70, grind rep, grind instances. these things are not challenging, just time consuming and tedious.
Travel from Stormwind to Darnassus. Lessee, about 5 minutes flight to Menethil Harbor, wait 5 minutes for the boat, about couple minutes later hit Theramore, fly about 6-7 minutes to the little port outside Darnassus.
On EQ, to travel from Antonica to Faydwer? You could be waiting an hour or more for a boat. God help you if you just missed it, you had some time to kill.