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Combos... a potential PvP Class Imbalance?

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Comments

  • XasapisXasapis Member RarePosts: 6,337

    In a game that's been released for 2 days in the US and is yet to be released in EU, it's a bit premature to talk about class balance, or lack of.

  • DwigoDwigo Member UncommonPosts: 51

     Hmm, how did that running around people help you? At the end of beta my character autoturned to face the buggers trying to jump around me so I still killed them...

  • ladyattisladyattis Member Posts: 1,273

    Okay, I believe Assassins get a form of a snare from a ranged attacked, which is either executed from a crossbow or a thrown weapon. In any case, I suggest checking the aoc.wikia.com Wiki or simply asking the Assassins forum to confirm this, because I've only seen it in action as a player not playing an Assassin.


    -- Brede

  • LobotomistLobotomist Member EpicPosts: 5,981

    Do not believe people that say you can move during executing combos , because it is not entirely correct.

    To execute combo you have to press 123qe - in specific sequence

    To move you have to press - WASD[space] - with strategy

    That is controlling 10 keys with 5 fingers.

     

    So in fact you can move while executing combos. But neither will you move nimbly , nor will your combos land on opponent that has any degree of skill.

     

    Nuff said

     



  • WolfmythWolfmyth Member Posts: 21
    Originally posted by Lobotomist


    Do not believe people that say you can move during executing combos , because it is not entirely correct.
    To execute combo you have to press 123qe - in specific sequence
    To move you have to press - WASD[space] - with strategy
    That is controlling 10 keys with 5 fingers.
     
    So in fact you can move while executing combos. But neither will you move nimbly , nor will your combos land on opponent that has any degree of skill.
     
    Nuff said
     

    But you don't need to use all 10 keys at once. What about also re-binding keys and even moving some keys off to the mouse?

  • puma713puma713 Member Posts: 288

    Originally posted by Grail3r


    Just walk backwards if someone is trying to run circles around you. 
     
    btw priests are way overpowered later on
     

    Yeah, its what they get for being crunchy for the first 20+ levels. 

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    /played: EQ, EQ II, DAoC, WoW, LoTRO, AoC, CoH/CoV, WAR, Aion, Tera, Wildstar and many others that don't merit listing

    /playing: Clash of Clans, Hearthstone

  • LobotomistLobotomist Member EpicPosts: 5,981

    Originally posted by Wolfmyth

    Originally posted by Lobotomist


    Do not believe people that say you can move during executing combos , because it is not entirely correct.
    To execute combo you have to press 123qe - in specific sequence
    To move you have to press - WASD[space] - with strategy
    That is controlling 10 keys with 5 fingers.
     
    So in fact you can move while executing combos. But neither will you move nimbly , nor will your combos land on opponent that has any degree of skill.
     
    Nuff said
     

    But you don't need to use all 10 keys at once. What about also re-binding keys and even moving some keys off to the mouse?

    I said MOVE WITH SKILL and for that you need to be IN CONTROL and have your fingers on movement keys on movement keys for QUICKEST REACTION.

     

    Rebinding attack keys to special mouse , gaming keyboards , and especially MACRO keyboards would give great advantage to people that buy them. But that is unfair advantage , and i dont like non-fair play



  • ladyattisladyattis Member Posts: 1,273


    Originally posted by Lobotomist
    Do not believe people that say you can move during executing combos , because it is not entirely correct.
    To execute combo you have to press 123qe - in specific sequence
    To move you have to press - WASD[space] - with strategy
    That is controlling 10 keys with 5 fingers. image

    So in fact you can move while executing combos. But neither will you move nimbly , nor will your combos land on opponent that has any degree of skill.

    Nuff said image


    Then you're a moron for not using your snares, roots, or stuns.


    -- Brede

  • WolfmythWolfmyth Member Posts: 21

     

    Originally posted by Lobotomist


     
    Originally posted by Wolfmyth

    Originally posted by Lobotomist


    Do not believe people that say you can move during executing combos , because it is not entirely correct.
    To execute combo you have to press 123qe - in specific sequence
    To move you have to press - WASD[space] - with strategy
    That is controlling 10 keys with 5 fingers.
     
    So in fact you can move while executing combos. But neither will you move nimbly , nor will your combos land on opponent that has any degree of skill.
     
    Nuff said
     

    But you don't need to use all 10 keys at once. What about also re-binding keys and even moving some keys off to the mouse?

     

    I said MOVE WITH SKILL and for that you need to be IN CONTROL and have your fingers on movement keys on movement keys for QUICKEST REACTION.

     

    Rebinding attack keys to special mouse , gaming keyboards , and especially MACRO keyboards would give great advantage to people that buy them. But that is unfair advantage , and i dont like non-fair play

    Going by that, everyone should have the same PC, no-one should have any better HARDWARE because anyone with a FASTER CPU/GC, more mem has an ADVANTAGE and thats an "unfair advantage". What about people who play at higher resolution and have biggers screen then me?

    How dare people have "special mouse" (know as gaming mice)  to and "gaming keyboards" to play shockingly a GAME.

    So in the end, just because YOU can't do it doesn't mean others can't. Looks like the only thing holding you back is skill, knowledge  and your and only your made up morals.

     

    PS: Sorry, just felt like making things bold and underlined and in caps and shouting for no reason also. I must admit but, that wasn't fun

  • sifudojasifudoja Member Posts: 142

    I think the controls in this game are about as good as it gets, as long as auto-face-target, automatic camera follow and stuff like that aren't on.

    You CAN move in between each attack or stage of the combos. In other words you can start a combo and move around then do the second attack, move around more then another, etc etc.

    It does take some agile fingers to maintain good control of your character and still reach all those combo and attack buttons, luckily you can do a few things that will make it easier. For one there's the other actionbars, that you can use a modifier key (alt for the default 2nd bar i think) so that you can set some skills to alt+1-6 so they are easier to reach. Another thing is you can use the mouse buttons together to move forward sometimes so that one finger is free to attack with. You spend more time using 1, 2 and 3 that do the attacks which complete the combos, than the others that only do a single attack combo openner, so you don't have to slide your hand around too much and can also click the action bar skills with your mouse.

    Basically, i don't find it any harder than most MMOs i play to physically control the characters. Pretty much all of them come down to using the same mouse clicks and key presses, or not far from the same. But i do think this game goes a bit deeper than most in the mental aspect, knowing what the long list of moves you have will actually do to the opponent and how to best tie them together keeps me thinking. And no matter how well i can click the keys, i'm always seeing chances to set up an attack or a missed opportunity to take advange of an openning that i missed due to cooldowns, late reactions while carrying out a strategy i already planned to use, or unexpected behavior from my opponent.

    Add the endless amount of spec decisions to make and good classes, and you have what i feel is an MMO with a mix of the best control and combat gameplay to date. Plus it sure is pretty :P

     

    edit:  Oh yeah, and i forgot to mention stuns/roots/snares. Knock someone on thier butt, then you have plenty of time to stand still and get a combo off anyways. Learn your cooldowns and put together some form of strategy and order for your abilities and you will do much better. This is NOT a button masher if you take time to really understand what is going on around you, but it's fast paced with reaction based gameplay ,and and i like that alot.

  • LobotomistLobotomist Member EpicPosts: 5,981

    Originally posted by ladyattis


     
     


    Then you're a moron for not using your snares, roots, or stuns.


    -- Brede

    Now now , name calling because we dont see eye to eye on AOC combat strategy , i expected more from you

     



  • jsw40jsw40 Member Posts: 214

    Remember, you can also move by holding both mouse buttons down at the same time.

  • ArskaaaArskaaa Member RarePosts: 1,265

    No one care low lvl/new game pvp balance. When u hit max lvl and ur class sucks,  u start cry then about class balances. If pvp is unbalanced max lvl, i will quit playing game. No reason torture self to play game where certain classes owns. will see...

  • JupstoJupsto Member UncommonPosts: 2,075

    Originally posted by ShneakyOne


    For the people who are bitching about an assassin not having  a snare... they do.
     
    When you first get an attack out of stealth, they become snared for a little bit. This just just enough time to get a combo off, I prefer Slow Death. That's a nice little dot, that with my basic attacks (assuming they are smart and trying to kite me), I can use the rest of my stamina to catch up with them and just start waiing on them. I'm currently 50/33. About 15 of my deaths were due to being rez killed, and about 7 of my kills were due to me rez killing someone. From what I can tell, Assassins, when played correctly dominate the PvP scene, and lose to rangers (every time) and are hard to beat Guardians. Everyone else gets shredded apart.
    that was pretty much my findings in a small session, something like 35 kills 24 deaths. at lvl 19 I tried to kill a lvl 12 ranger 3 times and failed. no i was not ganking, he killed me after I had pollished off someone my level. and no i'm not just a noob, the ranger was untouchable vs my assassin. I tracked him down, hit him with my sneak... he bungs down a root trap, sprints and restealths.

    the reason assassins dominate most classes in 1 vs 1 is that the stealth attack hits for crazy damage, so any classes with low health, casters etc. go down to 30-40% health before they realise they are being attacked. and can't cast there snares/healths in time to same themselves. thats why guardians survive as have high health, whereas classes like templar go down because they have less health and rely on self healing.

    so yeah assassins are OP in 1v1 in my lvl 10-20 pvp experience, but thats kind of the point of the class. and outside of stealth and 1n1 they get squashed. they have less armour than any of the healers and no defences.

     

    My blog: image

  • JupstoJupsto Member UncommonPosts: 2,075

    Originally posted by Lobotomist


    Do not believe people that say you can move during executing combos , because it is not entirely correct.
    To execute combo you have to press 123qe - in specific sequence
    To move you have to press - WASD[space] - with strategy
    That is controlling 10 keys with 5 fingers.
     
    So in fact you can move while executing combos. But neither will you move nimbly , nor will your combos land on opponent that has any degree of skill.
     
    Nuff said
     
    thats balls. its hard, its challenging (well if you come from wow). use mouse to walk and left hand to hit keys or use left hand to walk and mouse to click on icons to attack.

    its not the buttons that stop combos on the run. all FC need to do is make moving animations for the combo finishers, and then you can chase your foe down whist hitting him with combos for effects without you studdenly stopping for a combo animation and him running away. you can currently move and use the combo starters and direction attacks, but as soon as you hit combo end you stand still.

    My blog: image

  • JupstoJupsto Member UncommonPosts: 2,075

    Originally posted by Arskaaa


    No one care low lvl/new game pvp balance. When u hit max lvl and ur class sucks,  u start cry then about class balances. If pvp is unbalanced max lvl, i will quit playing game. No reason torture self to play game where certain classes owns. will see...
    I care because I little idea which class to play as they'll all completely change by the time i hit 80.

    PS: sorry for spamming his thread, my PC has died and I'm bored solid.

    My blog: image

  • seabluesseablues Member Posts: 58

    Originally posted by Consensus


    today I (assassin) got owned by a guardian because I couldn't use any combos because she was moving. she unfairly killed me as I had no snare, and she just kept her distance, bitch slapping me with a polearm (has silly range for a mele weapon) from where I could not attack back (with my small range daggers) and I could not get in range.
    I would say aoc is VERY unbalanced right now, put its still alot of fun. and yeah combos you have to stand to finish them, and basic damage is enough to kill someone pretty quick.
    the worse thing right now is they did to fix spawn camping.
    but then I haven't got to a level where I have a snare. (hopefully assassin will get one), but yes I think I might be playing ranger over assassin just because mele combos aren't totatlly useful right now in pvp.

    totally ridiculous, ur an assasin.  you are NOT a tank.   you should lose every 1v1 fight that you don't have the suprise advantage.  If you wanna stand toe to toe with people roll another class.

  • JupstoJupsto Member UncommonPosts: 2,075

    Originally posted by seablues


     
    Originally posted by Consensus


    today I (assassin) got owned by a guardian because I couldn't use any combos because she was moving. she unfairly killed me as I had no snare, and she just kept her distance, bitch slapping me with a polearm (has silly range for a mele weapon) from where I could not attack back (with my small range daggers) and I could not get in range.
    I would say aoc is VERY unbalanced right now, put its still alot of fun. and yeah combos you have to stand to finish them, and basic damage is enough to kill someone pretty quick.
    the worse thing right now is they did to fix spawn camping.
    but then I haven't got to a level where I have a snare. (hopefully assassin will get one), but yes I think I might be playing ranger over assassin just because mele combos aren't totatlly useful right now in pvp.

     

    totally ridiculous, ur an assasin.  you are NOT a tank.   you should lose every 1v1 fight that you don't have the suprise advantage.  If you wanna stand toe to toe with people roll another class.

    people really get the wrong end of the stick of this post. i've already made replies to you response by others.

    i never said a guardian killing my assassin was unbalanced. and I DID you the surprise advantage.

    why do think this was a whine post about assassin vs tank?

    this was desicribing how the person, who happens to be a tank, was using the crazy range of a polearm to attack me, who happens to be a assassin, whilst kitting at a range where I could not attack back. I happened to think that not being able to attack back was unfair, but as others have said everything will change later on. especially when the assassin gets a snare move.

    My blog: image

  • Death1942Death1942 Member UncommonPosts: 2,587

    Originally posted by Consensus


    today I (assassin) got owned by a guardian because I couldn't use any combos because she was moving. she unfairly killed me as I had no snare, and she just kept her distance, bitch slapping me with a polearm (has silly range for a mele weapon) from where I could not attack back (with my small range daggers) and I could not get in range.
    I would say aoc is VERY unbalanced right now, put its still alot of fun. and yeah combos you have to stand to finish them, and basic damage is enough to kill someone pretty quick.
    the worse thing right now is they did to fix spawn camping.
    but then I haven't got to a level where I have a snare. (hopefully assassin will get one), but yes I think I might be playing ranger over assassin just because mele combos aren't totatlly useful right now in pvp.
    and the reason why you kept attacking was...? 

    seriously.  a decent assassin would know better than that,  what you should have done was act as if you really wanted that guardian, then when you race past a caster you break off, gaining a surpise attack on the caster and that dumb guardian is far enough away for you to kill the caster and run off.  if there was no one around then quite simply go stealth and break off your pursuit.

     

    on topic now

     

    combos are always a grey area in PvP and there is no solution to them.  people are just going to have to adjust and not use the more useless combos and focus more on the ones that work.

    MMO wish list:

    -Changeable worlds
    -Solid non level based game
    -Sharks with lasers attached to their heads

  • BerndrBerndr Member Posts: 185

    Every time someone start s whining about class imbalance

     

    I WANT TO SCREAM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

     

    Why on earth do we have to have always  balanced classes????????

    Please someone tell me WHY?

    Lets think of any fiction story , did they all  have balanced classes? I dont think so, 

     lets take for an instance  " Lord of the rings"

    should little hobbit be able to kill in 1 on 1 combat something like Troll or  Uruk ,

     if i remember well ,Pippin and Merry were for  those orcs a joke  picked up and tossed  on their  back like a sack of potato

    Should hobbit be able to kill a mighty wizard or some other strong creature ???? Yes , but not in 1 on 1 combat only by deceiving him , sneaking ,cheating and catching him of the guard....

    I d like to see a realistic game in which there is no balance , in which if you decided to play a weak character then you use the tricks and skills of that class and play  it in style of your race , not in WOW style where every teenage can pick any character such as fluffy bunny and then go rampage killing a whole  tribe of trolls

    No wonder RP is dead

     

  • Grail3rGrail3r Member Posts: 97

    Just buy a GAME PAD for the PC ..

     

    Then you can move and perform combos really easy.. this game was designed for consoles in mind.

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