What Happened to WoW?

fraudemonax · May 2008

This is not meant to be a scathing thread... I really want to know. I remember four years ago (when I last visited this web site regularly) that WoW was the fanboi game-choice of the century. Now it seams that even FFXI looks angelic next to them. What gives? Should I not bother to start my account up again and buy all the new expansion packs? Has it really gone that much to the cleaners?

unherdninja · May 2008

I dont quit get what your saying? Are you saying that you think the game is dieing? If so then you dont have to worry about that any time soon.

Gazenthia · May 2008

A couple of things have happened.

1) There has only ever been one expansion pack for this nearly 4 year old game, and there are now competitors.

2) They have only added one lone battleground to the game, which you can only reach post 60, which of course requires the expansion pack.

3) They did add an arena system, and it is very corrupt and broken. Last I heard, you had to do arena in order to acquire gear that was in the battleground reward selection. So now you have nowhere to turn besides PvE-raiding if you don't like arena.

4) Professions are more of a sinkhole of time and resources than ever. Jewelcrafters and miners got shafted in 2.4 when they put epic quality gems on vendors, and the design schema at the end of a rep grind.

5) Dailies and the rep grinds they are directly linked too, are overwhelmingly repetitive. It feels like the grind that it is. If they wanted everyone to get these reps, have those mounts, and this much money they could have handled it better IMO.

6) Lack of overall content.

7) When I was there, it was hostile towards new/fresh players.

Ealdorman · May 2008

If you havnt played for 4 years, welcome back and enjoy.

Most players never visit these forums, they just play and have fun.

So do yourself a favour and just see to the facts.

1. the last 3 years a number of other mmorpgs has been released as the "wow-killers" (LotrO, Sword of the new World, Cabal Online etc) and still WoW have in those 3 years got 4 million new subscribers.

I think that says it all.

Does WoW have issues? yes, but nothing that a few addons cant take care of.

Pday · May 2008

The main problem as I see it is that every single expansion and content patch invalidates the work you did prior to them. Take honor gained items for instance, while honor is easy to get, it takes time to do so and every few months those items get upgrade but you have to grind the same honor you did for the previous item again for a few more item points.

Then an expansion comes out that makes the work you did prior to it pointless since they upgrade starter gear in the new zones to top tier epics in the old zones.

Talent specs are more or less enforced by developers, since there are usually a couple of cookiecutter specs for each class, for mages there is frost for pvp (41 points or more) and fire for pve. There are always places to put talent points that are useless in every aspect of the game. Don't get to comfy in your spec by the way since odds are it will get nerfed at that point.

Certain classes (warrior) are pretty much hardcoded as a must in both pve and pvp, while others such as shaman, non resto druids and hunters are struggling to take part in both end-game pve and pvp.

So the game is starting to become really bad and the people who like it are either to stubborn to move on or have realized that wow is pretty much all they can manage when it comes to mental requirements.

I'd either go for Conan or do what most players are doing and wait for warhammer. You can look at wow the same way you look at your next door cocaine dealer, yes he charges a bit to much, stiffs you on the amount almost every time. It's been out for like 3 and a half years, yet it still struggles with pvp balance, pve balance, content updates are slow, generally a new patch means a full day of downtime.

Wow is the Mcdonalds of online gaming, it's easy, quick, but if you want something that really hits the spot you go somewhere else. Wow fanbois have a habit of dragging the "10 million" argument but honestly, "A shot of love with Tila Tequila" still has an audience, millions still find Ryan Seacrests douchebaggery entertaining.

chryses · May 2008

Never played WoW but I have recently jumped into AoC and if you have a decent rig I would try that first. I have played enough MMO's to know that AoC although not revolutionary is definitely a big step up and very gritty in an adult way. I think once people generally upgrade their PCs then they will leave WoW to utilise their new hardware. Right now WoW is a great MMO if you have an out of date PC as it runs so well on it. (feedback from friends)

coffee · May 2008

the MMORPG community has never liked wow... its not cool to like wow... thats all.. look around both wow and the expansion score well above 90% (highest rated mmo ever), over 10 million active subs (4.5million western), over 400 western servers. just had a big content patch and thew expansion out within the next 6 month.... now is as good as ever time to play wow.

To the guys who say "omg all my gear becomes obsolete every few months or when an expansion hit"... welcome to lvl based mmos.... if you dont understand the concept by now then give up now.

To the so called lack og battle grounds, wow has 4 battleground that are active and quick to get into.. now lets add an extra 5... suddenly its not so easy any more as the population is spread too thin... see where im going.. you cant just throw in a battleground every few months... thats a mistake soe would make.

NBlitz · May 2008

Originally posted by coffee

...
To the guys who say "omg all my gear becomes obsolete every few months or when an expansion hit"... welcome to lvl gear based mmos.... if you dont understand the concept by now then give up now.
...

There, fixed.

Nightsorrow · May 2008

Originally posted by coffee

To the guys who say "omg all my gear becomes obsolete every few months or when an expansion hit"... welcome to lvl based mmos.... if you dont understand the concept by now then give up now.

I understand that they will reset everyone's gear to the same level every patch so I gave up.

And not every MMOs will wipe your effort every patch.

Demz2 · May 2008

Originally posted by Nightsorrow

Originally posted by coffee

To the guys who say "omg all my gear becomes obsolete every few months or when an expansion hit"... welcome to lvl based mmos.... if you dont understand the concept by now then give up now.

I understand that they will reset everyone's gear to the same level every patch so I gave up.

And not every MMOs will wipe your effort every patch.

What? Seriusoly this forums gets more and more bizzare everyday. While you whine and bitch wow gets tronger while other mmos get weaker. instead of starting wow dieing threads everyone should start what mmo will kill vanguard eq2 lotro etc etc etc. If anything all these games are closer to dying from new mmos getting released than wow.

Nightsorrow · May 2008

Originally posted by Demz2

What? Seriusoly this forums gets more and more bizzare everyday. While you whine and bitch wow gets tronger while other mmos get weaker. instead of starting wow dieing threads everyone should start what mmo will kill vanguard eq2 lotro etc etc etc. If anything all these games are closer to dying from new mmos getting released than wow.

What? What's wrong with you?

I just stated that I don't like the gear system(as well as some other systems but not gonna mention here) and I quited, and lv/gear based MMO doesn't mean they all wipe your effort like that guy said. Did I ever say a word that WoW is dying or such? WoW is being supported by hell lot of more casual MMO players, as well as a lot of, but relatively less in game, hardcore players, and far from dying, that's the fact, but nothing to do with me.

grimboj · May 2008

Originally posted by Gazenthia

A couple of things have happened.

1) There has only ever been one expansion pack for this nearly 4 year old game, and there are now competitors.
It has 8million players, the competitors have 500k at most (EQ2). Since the '8 million argument' is 'getting tired' I'll go with:

The combat system is the smoothest on the market.

The trait/talent system is the best thought out.

Another expansion due in the winter.

2) They have only added one lone battleground to the game, which you can only reach post 60, which of course requires the expansion pack.
What exactly is the problem with that? lol You want people spread across 100s of different battlegrounds so they all get canned for not having enough players.
3) They did add an arena system, and it is very corrupt and broken. Last I heard, you had to do arena in order to acquire gear that was in the battleground reward selection. So now you have nowhere to turn besides PvE-raiding if you don't like arena.
If you win arena you get this seasons gear, if you BG you get last seasons gear. Since you can just go AFK in and out in BG I'd say thats pretty fair :P

4) Professions are more of a sinkhole of time and resources than ever. Jewelcrafters and miners got shafted in 2.4 when they put epic quality gems on vendors, and the design schema at the end of a rep grind.
Bit of a sweeping statement from a jaded jewelcrafter lol Get it? Jade? nevermind :P

5) Dailies and the rep grinds they are directly linked too, are overwhelmingly repetitive. It feels like the grind that it is. If they wanted everyone to get these reps, have those mounts, and this much money they could have handled it better IMO.
OK seriously there's only so much whining you can do without even trying to offer alternatives.

6) Lack of overall content.
Can I get a whineburger with fries? Name another game that adds raids as free patches?
7) When I was there, it was hostile towards new/fresh players.

No no wait I'll get a whinewrap with a large coke. 14 day free trial? original game now costs $10? They made 1-50 30% faster? TBC down to $20? Am I hitting any nails here?

Just caus you got bored of it doesn't mean you have to ruin the party for everyone else :P I've played every game on the market and WoW is the only game I really enjoy playing. Combat is sluggish and awkward on other games or just a fruitless grind.

Trowar · May 2008

What happend to WoW you ask? Simple question with easy answer.

It got old.

Since of Mars this year I haven´t seen any English EU realm with queues anymore and there hasn´t been any hardware upgrade this year that could have increase the capacity of the servers.

Not even Maghteridon, that attracts raiders from all over due to being home of Nihilum, have queues any longer. Nor Stormscale that has attracted PvPers from all over.

And this isn´t something that I am just making up http://www.warcraftrealms.com/temp/activity-2008-05.htm

As you can see there is a drop in population every year at April, however this year it was much bigger than usual. And that without any competion from AoC.

We will not see the full inpact of AoC until June numbers since it was launced so late in May. But those numbers will be intresting to see.

But the fact is that time of steady growth ended already in Februar 2007 in Europe, since then it has gone up and down at around 400k players online. Give or take 50k due to season variation.

Pday · May 2008

Originally posted by coffee
the MMORPG community has never liked wow... its not cool to like wow... thats all.. look around both wow and the expansion score well above 90% (highest rated mmo ever), over 10 million active subs (4.5million western), over 400 western servers. just had a big content patch and thew expansion out within the next 6 month.... now is as good as ever time to play wow.
To the guys who say "omg all my gear becomes obsolete every few months or when an expansion hit"... welcome to lvl based mmos.... if you dont understand the concept by now then give up now.
To the so called lack og battle grounds, wow has 4 battleground that are active and quick to get into.. now lets add an extra 5... suddenly its not so easy any more as the population is spread too thin... see where im going.. you cant just throw in a battleground every few months... thats a mistake soe would make.

The thing is it's fully possible to reuse the same reputation factions, for instance if you're exalted with cenarion circle, you get revered with cenarion expedition automatically as a reward.
Considering that in my battlegroup there are over 100 separate battlegrounds going at the same time during prime, adding another one shouldn't be a problem. The core problem is a lack of content for pvpers since world pvp is non existent, we've been doing AV, WSG and AB for over 2 years and eots for a little over a year. If pve got the same treatment we'd be waiting for naxx to be released at this point.
The population seems to have no problems dealing with the 18 or so dungeons added over the last year, but somehow you think that a 5th battleground would be a problem?
I'll address the "get used to it" point about items becoming outdated as well. All item based games have a certain degree of mudflation, however wow has a worse case of mudflation I have ever seen in an mmorpg. We are currently level 70, but we wear items that are around 150.
The highest ilevel sets pre tbc were 88 that means that following a logical progression, the highest Ilevel sets after wrath of the lolking should be around 230 for level 80 players.
That's just poor game design to be honest, when gear makes up 90% of the stats on your character.

Vrika · May 2008

Don't care about the WoW haters on these forums. WoW isn't new and shiny any more, and most of the people in here have played in hundreds or thousands of hours. They've gotten bored with it, and instead of admitting that they had a fun time but it's time to move on to new experiences, they have started hating WoW for not offering them those new experiences any more (after they have played same game for hundreds or thousands of hours).

WoW is still doing well, according to the latest official numbers released earlier this year they have now more subcribers than ever, 10.7 million. And the game has improved with every patch so if you haven't played it for a long time you'll be suprised to see how much better it has become.

Nightsorrow · May 2008

Originally posted by Vrika

Don't care about the WoW haters on these forums. WoW isn't new and shiny any more, and most of the people in here have played in hundreds or thousands of hours. They've gotten bored with it, and instead of admitting that they had a fun time but it's time to move on to new experiences, they have started hating WoW for not offering them those new experiences any more (after they have played same game for hundreds or thousands of hours).

WoW is still doing well, according to the latest official numbers released earlier this year they have now more subcribers than ever, 10.7 million. And the game has improved with every patch so if you haven't played it for a long time you'll be suprised to see how much better it has become.

How much better other than adding new seasons and new raid instances?

Well, personally I had good time from launch up to clearing BWL, then I played up to BT just because there is no choice on the market.

WoW is no doubt good and successfully, but I am no doubt got bored from it right after clearing BWL lol.

Naxx was also good but the news of TBC destroyed it. Anyway keeps adding new raid instances does not interest me. That's why I got bored after finishing 2.

Vrika · May 2008

Originally posted by Nightsorrow
How much better other than adding new seasons and new raid instances?

-There is usually nearly hundred class balance changes in major patches. Over time, that has improved the class balance considerably, even if new equipment and things sometimes do also distrubt balance. And offspecs are now much more viable than what they used to be

-The lag problems that game had after launch have been fixed

-Addon functionality had a major chance in patch 2.0, this improved it and removed the worst automation wich made many things boring especially for healers

-Arena que times were lovered some time ago with an update

-There have been performance updates to the game, like all player models (or at least player face models) were redone after the launch of BC to improve performance

-The default UI has been improved with things like counter for free bagspace, and complete redoing of gameplay settings menu (after the launch of BC)

-Patch 2.3 introdused a major change in levelling, as exp gained from quests was increased and exp required to level decreades between levels 20-50 (or 20-55, I'm not sure of the level range)

-Instance difficulties for all pre BC non-raid instances were adjusted a couple of patch ago. Mob (and boss) levels inside the same instance were made to be closer to each other, so that a group entering instance wouldn't have to fight 5 levels lower mobs at the start than at the end. Thus making it (at least in my opinion) much more fun as a group entering instance gets constantly challenged, not only challenged at the end

-Instance drops from bosses were updated and quest levels to instances adjusted (in the old world)

-Dustwallow March was completely redone, and a huge amount of new quests were added there

-Auctionhouse system sorting was improved, spam reporting has been improved, mailing items and gold from character to another has had some changes, and questgivers are now shown on minimap as a new functinality

The things listed above aren't in any order, I just wrote what came into my mind. And the list is not completed, I listed only things I remembered by heart.

But I think those changes should be called more than just "adding new seasons and new raid instances". The game actually gets better with each new patch.

Nightsorrow · May 2008

Originally posted by Vrika

-There is usually nearly hundred class balance changes in major patches. Over time, that has improved the class balance considerably, even if new equipment and things sometimes do also distrubt balance. And offspecs are now much more viable than what they used to be -The lag problems that game had after launch have been fixed -Addon functionality had a major chance in patch 2.0, this improved it and removed the worst automation wich made many things boring especially for healers -Arena que times were lovered some time ago with an update

-There have been performance updates to the game, like all player models (or at least player face models) were redone after the launch of BC to improve performance

-The default UI has been improved with things like counter for free bagspace, and complete redoing of gameplay settings menu (after the launch of BC)

-Patch 2.3 introdused a major change in levelling, as exp gained from quests was increased and exp required to level decreades between levels 20-50 (or 20-55, I'm not sure of the level range)

-Instance difficulties for all pre BC non-raid instances were adjusted a couple of patch ago. Mob (and boss) levels inside the same instance were made to be closer to each other, so that a group entering instance wouldn't have to fight 5 levels lower mobs at the start than at the end. Thus making it (at least in my opinion) much more fun as a group entering instance gets constantly challenged, not only challenged at the end

-Instance drops from bosses were updated and quest levels to instances adjusted (in the old world)

-Dustwallow March was completely redone, and a huge amount of new quests were added there

-Auctionhouse system sorting was improved, spam reporting has been improved, mailing items and gold from character to another has had some changes, and questgivers are now shown on minimap as a new functinality

The things listed above aren't in any order, I just wrote what came into my mind. And the list is not completed, I listed only things I remembered by heart.

But I think those changes should be called more than just "adding new seasons and new raid instances". The game actually gets better with each new patch.

Thanks for your input, I did and still do read news about WoW (e.g. World of Raids) and I knew all of them (except the face model redone stuff, never heard about it, maybe I have missed).

That's good for having such improvements, but it's not those minor things that annoys me, it's the raid and instance, which is the root of the gameplay, that bores me. I feel adding an new instance is nothing really new in gameplay, it's ok if the gameplay was good, but sadly I feel the gameplay after reaching level cap is boring. And with new instances you do all those boring fight again but with new faces of the mob and new gears only. I just hate the instances that you have no interaction with any other players besides your own group and objects of the world, and you know exactly where are the mobs and boss. Maybe the 1st time running the instance can still be fun, but not when you run them 2, 3, 4 ...... n times.

For WoW, add new seasons and instances, I really cannot consider farming honor again or farming trash and bosses which you had already killed is fun. The new content they add is very linear, new races, one more choice but not much different from others. New professions, one more choice but not much different from other professions, no big benefit for getting it and no big harm for not getting it. New seasons and instances, come on.....

For some older games adding new areas and dungeons, at least it's fun and exciting to explore, you don't know what's waiting for you and their exact location, and you scare death. Maybe it is linear too, but at least the gameplay is a bit more fun. But of course those games have other weakness too.

Anyway just my personally feeling, no offense.

okor · May 2008

I've been playing WoW and I still find it to be better than any other MMOs I have played, and yes, I did try AoC (and I am not saying AoC is bad, I just don't like it as much as WoW).

I have quit for a few months a few times, than I come back after a break and it is fun again. I can't wait for the new expansion, the new stuff they are adding looks awesome, and the zones in Northrend look amazing from the screenies Blizzard has released.

I've always found this site not to be very pro-WoW. But, I like the game, and I have fun playing it, so I just don't pay any attention to the flaming on the site. It doesn't matter if people here say thati t isn't fun, because I do think it is fun, and I have fun when I play it.

You would really just have to come back and see for yourself if you still enjoy it or if there are enough people on your server to make it worth it to come back for you. Honestly, I think now is a great time to come back, especially if you have a level 60 character. You'd most likely have just enough time to hit 70 for the release of WotLK so you can level to 80 with everyone and enjoy the new zones and instances for the first time at the same time everyone else is.

SomeOldBloke · May 2008

Originally posted by Gazenthia

A couple of things have happened.

1) There has only ever been one expansion pack for this nearly 4 year old game, and there are now competitors.

2) They have only added one lone battleground to the game, which you can only reach post 60, which of course requires the expansion pack.
3) They did add an arena system, and it is very corrupt and broken. Last I heard, you had to do arena in order to acquire gear that was in the battleground reward selection. So now you have nowhere to turn besides PvE-raiding if you don't like arena.

4) Professions are more of a sinkhole of time and resources than ever. Jewelcrafters and miners got shafted in 2.4 when they put epic quality gems on vendors, and the design schema at the end of a rep grind.

5) Dailies and the rep grinds they are directly linked too, are overwhelmingly repetitive. It feels like the grind that it is. If they wanted everyone to get these reps, have those mounts, and this much money they could have handled it better IMO.

6) Lack of overall content.
7) When I was there, it was hostile towards new/fresh players.

This post hits the spot, these are the exact reasons why I canceled my subscription. Time for a break until SGW.

Malvolentia · May 2008

Originally posted by unherdninja

I dont quit get what your saying? Are you saying that you think the game is dieing? If so then you dont have to worry about that any time soon.

This guy is right. WoW won't die because it's a spoonfed game for soccer moms and 10 year olds a like to achieve level 70.

It's just a gear grind. There's no endgame to it. It used to be fun. It's not anymore. Probably worth subscribing to see Northrend for a couple months then canceling and playing an MMO with a lil more depth.

Numquam · May 2008

What happened to wow during the last 2 years?

1. Skill no longer makes a difference

2. Dedication no longer makes a difference

The designers have aimed to please the casual player, the former CS player and the former Tekken player. There's been next to no love given to the oldschool MMORPG-player.

Control and UI - and the customization-possibilities - are still the best ever, though. That fact, combined with the poorness of the alternatives, is why WoW will stay alive for a good while still.

SonofSeth · May 2008

Originally posted by Numquam

What happened to wow during the last 2 years?
1. Skill no longer makes a difference

2. Dedication no longer makes a difference

The designers have aimed to please the casual player, the former CS player and the former Tekken player. There's been next to no love given to the oldschool MMORPG-player.

I know, it's awful! All you can do now is have some fun when you pop in.

BiggusRiggus · May 2008

Originally posted by Gazenthia

A couple of things have happened.

1) There has only ever been one expansion pack for this nearly 4 year old game, and there are now competitors.

2) They have only added one lone battleground to the game, which you can only reach post 60, which of course requires the expansion pack.
3) They did add an arena system, and it is very corrupt and broken. Last I heard, you had to do arena in order to acquire gear that was in the battleground reward selection. So now you have nowhere to turn besides PvE-raiding if you don't like arena.

4) Professions are more of a sinkhole of time and resources than ever. Jewelcrafters and miners got shafted in 2.4 when they put epic quality gems on vendors, and the design schema at the end of a rep grind.

5) Dailies and the rep grinds they are directly linked too, are overwhelmingly repetitive. It feels like the grind that it is. If they wanted everyone to get these reps, have those mounts, and this much money they could have handled it better IMO.

6) Lack of overall content.
7) When I was there, it was hostile towards new/fresh players.

I couldn't agree with you more. I left recently for these very reasons. Plus most of my day one release friends left 6 months after the expansion. I don't see the next expansion doing anything but adding some maps with reskinned mobs/npcs. After 2 pre-bc 60's (Loc, Mage), and 2 70's (Hunter, Druid) and endless hours BG/Arena, it just got old. I really loved this game when I new so many RL people playing. Maybe that's why I left... it just isn't the same.

Numquam · May 2008

Originally posted by SonofSeth

Originally posted by Numquam

What happened to wow during the last 2 years?
1. Skill no longer makes a difference

2. Dedication no longer makes a difference

The designers have aimed to please the casual player, the former CS player and the former Tekken player. There's been next to no love given to the oldschool MMORPG-player.

I know, it's awful! All you can do now is have some fun when you pop in.

The thing is, though: Define "fun".

For some people it's actually funny if dedication matters, and if the process of developing your character is long and requires something from you. This has nothing to do with being a hardcore raider or anything, nobody is saying that to enjoy the game you need the best gear, simply that to enjoy it you need to feel like you've accomplished something when your character improves. Yes, for some people that is funny. Nowadays getting über gear requires nothing but minimum PvP skill and the ability to farm a bit. There's no longer any need for patience, teamwork and real skill.

One mans fun is another mans misery, and the problem with WoW is that every CS and Tekkenplayer is now in it and that Blizzard is pleasing them nonstop, resulting in WoW no longer being a good game for those it was originally intended for - people that enjoys depth.

If you want easy, superficial fun - which we all do sometimes - WoW was not originally intended for you. Blizzard maximizing profit has made it so, though.

I still play wow, mainly because of the lack of alternatives and the excellent control and the possibility to tweak the UI etc. It has indeed been a great game, probably the best MMORPG ever. Personally I was hoping for AoC to take over, but it seems just as shallow as WoW has ended up being ...

SonofSeth · May 2008

Originally posted by Numquam
One mans fun is another mans misery, and the problem with WoW is that every CS and Tekkenplayer is now in it and that Blizzard is pleasing them nonstop, resulting in WoW no longer being a good game for those it was originally intended for - people that enjoys depth.
If you want easy, superficial fun - which we all do sometimes - WoW was not originally intended for you. Blizzard maximizing profit has made it so, though.

Now that's just crazy talk, CS and Tekken require way more skill than WoW will ever need.

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