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Programmable keyboards and Combos
Hoobley_deleted
Member Posts: 677
On the pre-release forums it was always a pretty big concern that keyboards such as Logitech's G15 would trivialize the combo system in the game. (either in PvE or PvP)
I haven't heard anything about this since release so are we to assume that indeed these types of keyboards do not give an advantage in the game and the macro functions don't work?
Comments
I would think macros help in PvE when you don't feel like pressing a few buttons and you'd rather press only one... lol
In pvp however it's more of a disadvantage IMO. Combat is fast-paced especially between skilled players, so I don't expect macros will be of any help. Imagine you start a macro combo and your opponent jumps to the right. You char carries on with the combo and you watch him swinging his sword in the air and loosing stamina. Also if your opponent dies and you already clicked on the macro, you will continue your useless combo and loose the cooldown and stamina.
I hope this makes sense!
Thanks and yes it does make sense, this is what was pretty much always said about the usefulness of these things in PvP.
I am interested to hear from anyone that's actually tried to macro combos (in either PvE or PvP) to hear how it worked out for you.
PvP in AoC is mostly hopping around while spamming your attack key. Not much to macro really.
I'm sure some pvp'er somewhere has found a use for g15 keyboard or autohotkey but I can't think of what it would be atm.
AoC PvP is also about attacking from stealth. First shot and planning your attack. I agree that the Pvp is quick, but honestly, I think it will be slowed down and evolve as the game grows. There may be a PvP use for macros in the future.
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
You could simulate an autoattack with autohokey. something like
Loop
{
Send 1
Sleep, 500
}
You just would have to make sure you were in range and facing your target. You could even toggle it on and off with more coding.
This would give you an advantage.
Many thoughts on PvP, but what of PvE?
I have the G15 and the G9 Logitech keyboard and mouse with their programmable keys, which by the way are fully supported by AoC before someone starts talking about 3rd party software.
I play an assassin in pvp and the programmable keys give me an extreme advantage since I am almost guaranteed to land a succesful 3-key combo after my initial ambush. Also, I can see my opponents struggling with their movement, where as I can focus really good on positioning and not struggle with combo keys since my major combat skills/combos have been programed on my keyboard/mouse. I also have macros for potions, simultaneous activation of abilities like sprinting and the endurance self buff etc. If anything goes hairy I just hit my 'cancel' button, like when sprinting away from an enemy.
So to answer your question, yes this hardware gives you a very strong edge in pvp.
Edit: You can move while performing combo apart from the last part when the animation sequence happens, which lets you stay on top of people who try to strafe and dodge (dodge is a broken mechanic atm too).
The voice of experience, thanks for sharing Dosas.
That's exactly what was predicted would happen. Thank god i got a free Razer keyboard with programmable keys so i can compete in pvp.
Im using a Saitek p990 dual analog game pad
I programmed it with macros .. Great for PVE .
Havent tried in pvp but I doubt it would be good as one poster said once you hit macro you are locked into the combo until it completes.
IT does make things alot more fun with PVE you get to watch the action rather than fight with controls.
You're assuming you can't do anything while macros are hitting keys, which is untrue. You can start a combo macro and still move/turn to stay on your opponent.
The problem with the programmable keyboards and other devices is that you're locking down the combo sequence. All somebody has to do to make you waste the combo and your stamina is double-tap back.
In time people will find their equilibrium in regards to the method of playing. Right now the game is too young so those with the artificial means seem superior than the rest. Give it some time for people to adjust to the combat system and the situation will change.
Doesn't this apply regardless? Even a little bit of latency and you've hit the next key in your combo and your opponent has 'double-tapped' back.
You're assuming you can't do anything while macros are hitting keys, which is untrue. You can start a combo macro and still move/turn to stay on your opponent.
Actually the combo make you stand frozen for a sec while it does the special.
But yes you can move up until the point the combo triggers while pressing the directional attacks needed to get the combo off.
Its that point at which you get frozen which I think people are worried about. You lose control of the ability to not follow through with the combo if something happens .
The game has some sort of key buffer thats why you sometimes keep hitting thin air after a fight if you were mashing buttons
You don't waste any combo, let me explain:
Let's say Vicious Strike is the k ey 4 and the directional attacks -> , <-, -> . Until the end of the last attack, you can move while perfoming this combo. If someone double taps and tries to dodge (which sometimes they try) you just stay on top of them easily. Only after the last attack and when the animation sequence takes place, your toon is 'locked' perfoming. And even then, the attack 'counts' based on the position of the enemy during the initial activation, i.e. if I was on top of my opponent when the animation sequence started, he will still get hit fully by the combo even if he sprints or dodges while the animation takes place.
Edit: Spelling
sweet sounds like macroing will work well in pvp then
I wouldnt use a gamepad controller for pvp tho , Id prefer one of those programable keyboards so you can circle strafer ( which seems hard on gamepad )
Each directional button you press does damage. The big damage comes with the completion of the combo. The trick for the player on the receiving end is to realise that a combo has started and act accordingly. Especially for casters, keep on casting while a melee performs a combo is asking for punishment.
So even if you are on top of your opponent when you started the sequence and you hit him with the first combo attacks, he will still have time to disengage before the final combo sequence hits him. When you activate a macro or a hardware-macro, you are effectively locking yourself to the spot of the first combo sequence (or at the least, you can't control when and where the last sequence will activate). If your opponent is smart, he'll take the hint from the combo sequence start and disengage. You may still hit him with the last sequence, but it's more of a hit-and-miss than if you were controlling exactly when to activate the last sequence.
The game is young and most people don't know how to fight properly. In due time the difference in techniques will become more noticeable.
You can 'cancel' the sequence of the macro from your keyboard if you want. So if someone sprints away from me, I cancel my sequence and run after him. Now if I catch them or not, that's an entirely different story. But you are right on the point that it's the melees that benefit the most out of this hardware.
Really, you can only realise how good these keyboards/mouses are for AoC PvP only if you experience it yourself. You have to have 20 fingers to pvp with combos and strafe at the same time otherwise.
Edit: I just saw your name, I am greek too
The difference is not on your opponent, but on you. The programmable combo makes the sequence executed faster, but the last part, which is the most damaging one may not land the moment you want it to, since it's hard coded. If you're controlling the sequence by hand, it's more work but you can control exactly when to activate the last sequence, aka, when you're on top of your opponent.
In time, people will become proficient with the system and will learn the sequences by heart. When this happens and when people let go of the button mashing and go more with the flow of the battle, these subtle changes will become more apparent.
I understand thanks.
Maybe you are right but to counter your argument, the people with the G15s have more time to spend on looking at the environment and managing their positioning than to worry about keeping up with a 6 move combo (yes it really goes up to 6 moves in the end levels).
I guess everyone should try it and decide what they like best.
I am off ! Need to go to work, hope my feedback helped some people.
Sorry to hijack the thread, but it is related.. I was wondering about how effective the zboards are for this game.. has anyone used one for AoC? Would I actually benefit from a Zboard?
Why not just leave the last command of the combo out of the macro, so you have control over when you finish the combo.
I think these ZBoards are pretty much just a gimmick, a Razer or Logitech would be a far greater investment.