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Sharon Stone Calls Chinese Earthquake "Karma".
gnomexxx
Member Posts: 2,920
I am so glad that Sharon Stone did this. But here's why I'm glad...
I hope that the religious right looks at her and thinks she's crazy for saying it. And then, I hope they are reflective enough to be able to see the similarities of some of the things some of their religious leaders say. I have heard some things from the right that I think are just as crazy as Sharon Stone's statement. But because they came from a Christian leader on the right, somehow they get a "crazy pass".
I've heard everything from AIDS, New Orleans, to destruction of ancient cities blamed on God's wrath. Somehow those don't sound like loony rantings to a lot of religious right people. So, maybe this is like looking in a mirror for them. Somehow I think most of them will make an excuse though.
And, just so I don't get accused of it, I am not referring to every Christian or religious person. Of course I know not every Christian believes God is going around punishing us with weather and disease. I'm just not blind enough to notice that it actually is a pretty big percentage of Christians who do believe this kind of stuff. Well, welcome to the camp of Sharon Stone. 
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Comments
I think its stupid to say that God or karama is for any of this stuff. I do believe he destoryed the ancient cities of sodom and gamorah.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
From the viewpoint of a Bible believing Christian, there really is nothing theologically wrong with believing that God destroys things by means of natural disaster (nor is there anything wrong with believing that God no longer does such things)...so why do you think that they are crazy? Maybe you just don't believe the same things that they do? Certainly the founding fathers would be okay with people believing different things.
Gnome, you're treading on grounds that you don't know very much about, you're just asking for a theological discussion here...do you really want that? I'd be happy to show you all the nifty little places where God's wrath comes to Earth, but I'm sure that you're already famliar with some of them.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I don't get it. The Bible is full of stories of God using natural disaster to punish people. For Religious leaders to say some natural disasters are Gods punishment is natural. Some of it may be far fetched like Aids is sent to kill homosexuals but nonetheless there is precedence set in the bible for things like Katrina as New Orleans was a very decadent town. I think you are saying because some idiot hollywood bimbo said China is getting some Karma Christians should disregard all stories that God uses nature to punish those who stray far away from his flock? Perhaps that's going to extremes, maybe you just want Christians to beleive that God has said, "to hell with you" and just stopped punishing those blatantly defy him? I'm sure you have some good reasoning....
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." ~ Ronald Reagan
From the viewpoint of a Bible believing Christian, there really is nothing theologically wrong with believing that God destroys things by means of natural disaster (nor is there anything wrong with believing that God no longer does such things)...so why do you think that they are crazy? Maybe you just don't believe the same things that they do? Certainly the founding fathers would be okay with people believing different things.
Gnome, you're treading on grounds that you don't know very much about, you're just asking for a theological discussion here...do you really want that? I'd be happy to show you all the nifty little places where God's wrath comes to Earth, but I'm sure that you're already famliar with some of them.
There is a magazine called Skeptic magazine that I like to read as much as I can. In it, I remember reading an article about how the human mind is geared to try to associate things together so it can feel the comfort of it's environment making sense. I think natural disasters and diseases and people associating them with God's wrath is an example of this.I just find it odd that people can find someone doing something they disagree with and link something bad happening to them as their "just dues". And it happens with all the religions to some extent or another. But if it were the case then how come just a few people doing some naughty stuff in a large crowd can bring down the damnation of God on them? And if that's the case, then America certainly deserves all kinds of bad things happening to it (ala Fred Phelps). For this is a nation pretty much built on personal liberties and equality under the law. That means that this country loves and thrives diversity in the eyes of its judiciary system.
Remember, some people believe just not being of their religion is wrong. So, anytime they see something bad happen to their opposing religion they can say that is God making them pay up. It's like the Skeptic magazine article, you see what you want to see so things make sense. If that's not the case, then how do you justify something bad happening to someone who is a really good person? And I don't mean this in a hostile way towards you Dreanor, I just find this hard to look at and believe objectively. Bad things happen to people in a statistically random way. I am certain that if investigated (if it hasn't been already) that would be the outcome. It's just a thing that happens.
I think if you're going to say something is true, then it's got to be a non-wavering case. It can't be something you find happening just here and there and use just the events that match up to make a complete case.
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I'm saying that I would bet anything that statistically bad things happen to everyone and every place randomly. One of the worse hurricanes in the history of weather records hit the Galveston, Texas area (it is the deadliest natural disaster to hit North America). Why is that? Was God mad at them too? Were they being too decadent? Why not every time something bad happens to an area are you not saying those people were being bad? Is that the case every time, and if not, then how do you decide? You made the statement that God did it to New Orleans, so you've got to apply that same rule to everything. You can't make a statement as truth if you find it to be riddled with contradictions.
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Whoa! I never said I beleive that Hurricane Katrina was sent by God to destroy the decadence of New Orleans, I just suggested that it was very easy to come to that conclusion. You are right that we cannot blame every natural disaster on God. "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." Certain natural disasters in the past have been caused by the hand of God. If you choose not to believe that then that's fine. Just because we believe that certain disasters have been caused by God does not mean we believe every storm that kills someone was the hand of God. Only God can decide if something drastic needs to be done, it is not up to any wo/man to decide that. I see where you are coming from but believe me, I understand that weather can be extremely volatile and very very little of it is God laying the smack down on us mortal idiots.
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." ~ Ronald Reagan
Although, I find those Biblical stories a little hard to swallow. What makes them so different from someone today saying a natural disaster was the hand of God?
Trust me, I want to believe some of the things in the Bible. But my sense of reason just will not let me. To say that I believe them would be lying to myself and others. They just make no sense when I look at the tendency of man to put labels on things depending upon their own perspective. And when I see that the Bible was written by men, it takes no stretch of my imagination to see the writers doing it in there.
I'm not the type to call a truly religious person stupid. I understand maybe your brain is just different from mine. It may be hard/impossible for you not to believe. Just as it is impossible for me to believe it. Everyone is different. However, I do find someone imposing the wrath of their God on people a very strange yet predictable behavior. Just show a person a bad event happening to a place they disagree with, and their mind will try to make sense of it all.
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Some of the stuff is hard to believe. Faith is a difficult thing to have in the period of our history as we really have it pretty good and we have a far better understanding of this universe then we did just fifty years ago let alone 400 years ago. It all boils down to faith. The more I think of how grand the universe is and how complex human beings are leads me to believe that there is a creator. being brought up Lutheran I tend to beleive that he is the God of the christian bible. If I had the same luxuries elsewhere in the world I may believe in some other religion. A lot of it is difficult to believe and like I said it boils down to Faith.
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." ~ Ronald Reagan
From the viewpoint of a Bible believing Christian, there really is nothing theologically wrong with believing that God destroys things by means of natural disaster (nor is there anything wrong with believing that God no longer does such things)...so why do you think that they are crazy? Maybe you just don't believe the same things that they do? Certainly the founding fathers would be okay with people believing different things.
Gnome, you're treading on grounds that you don't know very much about, you're just asking for a theological discussion here...do you really want that? I'd be happy to show you all the nifty little places where God's wrath comes to Earth, but I'm sure that you're already famliar with some of them.
There is a magazine called Skeptic magazine that I like to read as much as I can. In it, I remember reading an article about how the human mind is geared to try to associate things together so it can feel the comfort of it's environment making sense. I think natural disasters and diseases and people associating them with God's wrath is an example of this.I just find it odd that people can find someone doing something they disagree with and link something bad happening to them as their "just dues". And it happens with all the religions to some extent or another. But if it were the case then how come just a few people doing some naughty stuff in a large crowd can bring down the damnation of God on them? And if that's the case, then America certainly deserves all kinds of bad things happening to it (ala Fred Phelps). For this is a nation pretty much built on personal liberties and equality under the law. That means that this country loves and thrives diversity in the eyes of its judiciary system.
Remember, some people believe just not being of their religion is wrong. So, anytime they see something bad happen to their opposing religion they can say that is God making them pay up. It's like the Skeptic magazine article, you see what you want to see so things make sense. If that's not the case, then how do you justify something bad happening to someone who is a really good person? And I don't mean this in a hostile way towards you Dreanor, I just find this hard to look at and believe objectively. Bad things happen to people in a statistically random way. I am certain that if investigated (if it hasn't been already) that would be the outcome. It's just a thing that happens.
I think if you're going to say something is true, then it's got to be a non-wavering case. It can't be something you find happening just here and there and use just the events that match up to make a complete case.
All that I am saying is that it is absolutely impossible for you to make a case based upon the doctrine of Christianity that the Christians who say that natural disaster's are "God's wrath" are wrong...You are judging them based upon something that you don't believe anyway, so of course your opinion is going to be that they are wrong, but according to what they have chosen to believe as fact, they are very much within a reasonable hermeneutic...You're constructing your argument based on a presupposition that they are wrong, just as they believe that some natural disaster's can be seen as God's wrath. Your argument is inherently bullet-proof because you have constructed it around the presupposition that THEIR presupposition simply cannot be correct, but yours is. As far as your argument that it can't be God's wrath because there are random storms everywhere and random suffering (at least that seems to be what you are saying) Where in the Bible does it say that those things are inherently God's wrath? It's not in there...natural disaster was simply a means to an end used by God, not a uniform pattern that God used to punish people. Storms and the like are used in other places as well in order to teach lessons...how about Jesus walking on water? There was a storm raging then, and it wasn't because somebody did something naughty.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I would think God has better things to do than to punish people who probably have nothing to do with Tibet. Maybe if meteors start pelting Beijing or something, but an earthquake on some folks in the countryside? Cmon now.. Sharon Stone is a twit.
Surely there are places more deserving of being hit with a natural disaster anyhow..
Edit: Oh.. yeah. Natural disasters and God.. Actually, linking those does seem kinda appropriate, God uses all kinds of crazy weather to met out smack downs in the Bible. And more so, Disasters are big, awe-inspiring, immense, all kinds of things that are typically associated with God.
I believe in a creator as well. I just can't believe in the Bible or other religious texts. Especially when they talk about weather and disease being targeted punishment on men. Kind of strange how our brains are different that way, eh? I believe you are telling me the truth about what you believe, I don't doubt you. But I'm telling you the truth as well. I just cannot believe that stuff. Especially in the face of statistical evidence saying that it is all just random events.
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Haha, I can believe Sharon Stone said that. Well, someday I imagine Caiifornia will get its earthquake karma and we can talk to her then.
From the viewpoint of a Bible believing Christian, there really is nothing theologically wrong with believing that God destroys things by means of natural disaster (nor is there anything wrong with believing that God no longer does such things)...so why do you think that they are crazy? Maybe you just don't believe the same things that they do? Certainly the founding fathers would be okay with people believing different things.
Gnome, you're treading on grounds that you don't know very much about, you're just asking for a theological discussion here...do you really want that? I'd be happy to show you all the nifty little places where God's wrath comes to Earth, but I'm sure that you're already famliar with some of them.
There is a magazine called Skeptic magazine that I like to read as much as I can. In it, I remember reading an article about how the human mind is geared to try to associate things together so it can feel the comfort of it's environment making sense. I think natural disasters and diseases and people associating them with God's wrath is an example of this.I just find it odd that people can find someone doing something they disagree with and link something bad happening to them as their "just dues". And it happens with all the religions to some extent or another. But if it were the case then how come just a few people doing some naughty stuff in a large crowd can bring down the damnation of God on them? And if that's the case, then America certainly deserves all kinds of bad things happening to it (ala Fred Phelps). For this is a nation pretty much built on personal liberties and equality under the law. That means that this country loves and thrives diversity in the eyes of its judiciary system.
Remember, some people believe just not being of their religion is wrong. So, anytime they see something bad happen to their opposing religion they can say that is God making them pay up. It's like the Skeptic magazine article, you see what you want to see so things make sense. If that's not the case, then how do you justify something bad happening to someone who is a really good person? And I don't mean this in a hostile way towards you Dreanor, I just find this hard to look at and believe objectively. Bad things happen to people in a statistically random way. I am certain that if investigated (if it hasn't been already) that would be the outcome. It's just a thing that happens.
I think if you're going to say something is true, then it's got to be a non-wavering case. It can't be something you find happening just here and there and use just the events that match up to make a complete case.
And just as you say that it is impossible for me to make a case because it is something I don't believe, the same argument can be made of you. So, the only thing we have to fall back upon is evidence. And the evidence of it all being random events seems to be the best evidence that can explain EVERY event. Not just a select few here and there that fit into a mold.All that I am saying is that it is absolutely impossible for you to make a case based upon the doctrine of Christianity that the Christians who say that natural disaster's are "God's wrath" are wrong...You are judging them based upon something that you don't believe anyway, so of course your opinion is going to be that they are wrong, but according to what they have chosen to believe as fact, they are very much within a reasonable hermeneutic...You're constructing your argument based on a presupposition that they are wrong, just as they believe that some natural disaster's can be seen as God's wrath. Your argument is inherently bullet-proof because you have constructed it around the presupposition that THEIR presupposition simply cannot be correct, but yours is. As far as your argument that it can't be God's wrath because there are random storms everywhere and random suffering (at least that seems to be what you are saying) Where in the Bible does it say that those things are inherently God's wrath? It's not in there...natural disaster was simply a means to an end used by God, not a uniform pattern that God used to punish people. Storms and the like are used in other places as well in order to teach lessons...how about Jesus walking on water? There was a storm raging then, and it wasn't because somebody did something naughty.
If I have some weather event that occurs and causes something positive to happen to me am I supposed to believe that God did that to help me out? Or how personal am I supposed to take the whole thing? I would love to believe what you say, so I'm not so sure that you're right about me choosing something to believe. I never made that choice, it's just something inherent in my brain I guess. But there are other things that I have in my brain that I found evidence to prove wrong. This has not been proven wrong. And to see the evidence that I (or anyone for that matter) am wrong about other things does not make it any easier for my brain to eject the prior belief. It just makes it one that I am able to accept as an error and move past.
The brain is a strange thing and does some pretty convincing things to comfort us. I am going through some heavy therapy right now to make mine quit believing I'm still in a threatening situation. It plays tricks on me all the time to convince me that reality is wrong and I'm still in danger. I have to look at the evidence and use it to my advantage. I know just how strong "belief" can be. It's a real booger to overcome.
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I know. The thread kinda tangented into Christian God, so I went with that. The idea that karma caused an earthquake bypasses 'silly' and heads right into 'utterly incorrect'.
Yet, in the Bible Belt of the U.S. there are record tornadoes right now.
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Karma works if you look at it in the sense of being nice to people brings rewards. I love that belief. But when people try to expand that to the scale of planetary storms, then things get a little too big to make sense.
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From the viewpoint of a Bible believing Christian, there really is nothing theologically wrong with believing that God destroys things by means of natural disaster (nor is there anything wrong with believing that God no longer does such things)...so why do you think that they are crazy? Maybe you just don't believe the same things that they do? Certainly the founding fathers would be okay with people believing different things.
Gnome, you're treading on grounds that you don't know very much about, you're just asking for a theological discussion here...do you really want that? I'd be happy to show you all the nifty little places where God's wrath comes to Earth, but I'm sure that you're already famliar with some of them.
There is a magazine called Skeptic magazine that I like to read as much as I can. In it, I remember reading an article about how the human mind is geared to try to associate things together so it can feel the comfort of it's environment making sense. I think natural disasters and diseases and people associating them with God's wrath is an example of this.I just find it odd that people can find someone doing something they disagree with and link something bad happening to them as their "just dues". And it happens with all the religions to some extent or another. But if it were the case then how come just a few people doing some naughty stuff in a large crowd can bring down the damnation of God on them? And if that's the case, then America certainly deserves all kinds of bad things happening to it (ala Fred Phelps). For this is a nation pretty much built on personal liberties and equality under the law. That means that this country loves and thrives diversity in the eyes of its judiciary system.
Remember, some people believe just not being of their religion is wrong. So, anytime they see something bad happen to their opposing religion they can say that is God making them pay up. It's like the Skeptic magazine article, you see what you want to see so things make sense. If that's not the case, then how do you justify something bad happening to someone who is a really good person? And I don't mean this in a hostile way towards you Dreanor, I just find this hard to look at and believe objectively. Bad things happen to people in a statistically random way. I am certain that if investigated (if it hasn't been already) that would be the outcome. It's just a thing that happens.
I think if you're going to say something is true, then it's got to be a non-wavering case. It can't be something you find happening just here and there and use just the events that match up to make a complete case.
And just as you say that it is impossible for me to make a case because it is something I don't believe, the same argument can be made of you. So, the only thing we have to fall back upon is evidence. And the evidence of it all being random events seems to be the best evidence that can explain EVERY event. Not just a select few here and there that fit into a mold.All that I am saying is that it is absolutely impossible for you to make a case based upon the doctrine of Christianity that the Christians who say that natural disaster's are "God's wrath" are wrong...You are judging them based upon something that you don't believe anyway, so of course your opinion is going to be that they are wrong, but according to what they have chosen to believe as fact, they are very much within a reasonable hermeneutic...You're constructing your argument based on a presupposition that they are wrong, just as they believe that some natural disaster's can be seen as God's wrath. Your argument is inherently bullet-proof because you have constructed it around the presupposition that THEIR presupposition simply cannot be correct, but yours is. As far as your argument that it can't be God's wrath because there are random storms everywhere and random suffering (at least that seems to be what you are saying) Where in the Bible does it say that those things are inherently God's wrath? It's not in there...natural disaster was simply a means to an end used by God, not a uniform pattern that God used to punish people. Storms and the like are used in other places as well in order to teach lessons...how about Jesus walking on water? There was a storm raging then, and it wasn't because somebody did something naughty.
If I have some weather event that occurs and causes something positive to happen to me am I supposed to believe that God did that to help me out? Or how personal am I supposed to take the whole thing? I would love to believe what you say, so I'm not so sure that you're right about me choosing something to believe. I never made that choice, it's just something inherent in my brain I guess. But there are other things that I have in my brain that I found evidence to prove wrong. This has not been proven wrong. And to see the evidence that I (or anyone for that matter) am wrong about other things does not make it any easier for my brain to eject the prior belief. It just makes it one that I am able to accept as an error and move past.
The brain is a strange thing and does some pretty convincing things to comfort us. I am going through some heavy therapy right now to make mine quit believing I'm still in a threatening situation. It plays tricks on me all the time to convince me that reality is wrong and I'm still in danger. I have to look at the evidence and use it to my advantage. I know just how strong "belief" can be. It's a real booger to overcome.
As I've said, based upon what they believe, there is no reason for you to bash on them because all you are doing is bashing on the core of what they believe... There is absolutely no Biblical basis for saying that they are wrong, and if they are basing what they say on the Bible then one really cannot say that they are off base. The only difference is, as I said, that you don't believe that the Bible is true, and they do...so why don't you just make a thread about why the Bible isn't true? Because that's what the inevitable outcome of posting this thread was.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Sometimes when god and karma are bored they play with tectonic plates, as if murdering tens of thousands of mostly innocent people is justifiable. Normally I'd be outraged by such a comment from a person, but its only Sharon Stone (washed up and judging by the video, retarded).
Strange that so many people worship a murderer. According to the bible God has been murdering people for a long time, oh wait 'judging'. Hell he even murdered people just to prove something to satan, sick.
O_o o_O
Maybe it's just my orthodox beliefs, i dunno. But from my understanding of the bible, BC the christian god was a god of retribution. An eye for eye etc. The 10 commandments, destroying the city of sodoma and gomora. Taking down the tower of Babel and changing everyone's language so they couldn't make sense to each other making any attempt to rebuild it futile. Noa's cataclysm.
But AC, after god sent his only Son to die the martyric death death we all know about and preaching love amonst the people, the christian god change his "practice" from retribution and bacame love. The 1st man he accepted into heaven was a thief.
Thus my point is, in orthodox religion at least, saying god punishes people is not ignorant and absurd, but it also goes against people's christian beliefs in the first place. I m not sure why any of our religious leaders would say such a thing, but i am 99% sure even if they do say them they dont believe them.
It seems so easy to point the fingers at others that may or may not share similar ideals. However given the magnitude of their loss and the destruction took, one would hope that folks would not look for the na na aspect of this happening but have a human response, of we hope they get the help they need.
Just because a Hollywood insider said something tactless, doesn't mean all agree with her and accept that ideal.
Makes me think of all our weather related woes from Katrina Rita to very active destructive weather here. Did all those folks deserve losing everything too? No sometimes bad things happen .
Enjoyed reading the responses here and glad there are those that can put aside very simplistic views and possibly see a larger picture, of human suffering is just that rather it be else where or here .
"I am not happy about the ways the Chinese were treating the Tibetans."
I could be wrong... but I *think* the majority of the people who died probably haven't been to Tibet.
I don't really pay attention to stuff she says. She's always displaying her kitty to the public, so meh.
Or are they evil, and being punished because they are not Christian?
Maybe God is punishing them because they look different then us?
Maybe some righteous Christian could explain exactly what God was punishing them for?
Or are they evil, and being punished because they are not Christian?
Maybe God is punishing them because they look different then us?
Maybe some righteous Christian could explain exactly what God was punishing them for?
Unfair generalization here. Christianity actually has reached China. Who'da thunked it? Know a few Chinese-Americans, Asian-Americans that go to church.
Or are they evil, and being punished because they are not Christian?
Maybe God is punishing them because they look different then us?
Maybe some righteous Christian could explain exactly what God was punishing them for?
Unfair generalization here. Christianity actually has reached China. Who'da thunked it? Know a few Chinese-Americans, Asian-Americans that go to church.
Actually, all four questions I posted are generalizations. They are not statements, but questions. To take a position that people are being punished by God, or by "karma", is to make a generalization about those people. Such a generalization that a certain group of people should be punished indicates that God/"karnma' punishes classes based on generalizations.
Perhaps God/"karma" is racist? After all, isn't punishing a class of people discriminatory?
From the viewpoint of a Bible believing Christian, there really is nothing theologically wrong with believing that God destroys things by means of natural disaster (nor is there anything wrong with believing that God no longer does such things)...so why do you think that they are crazy? Maybe you just don't believe the same things that they do? Certainly the founding fathers would be okay with people believing different things.
Gnome, you're treading on grounds that you don't know very much about, you're just asking for a theological discussion here...do you really want that? I'd be happy to show you all the nifty little places where God's wrath comes to Earth, but I'm sure that you're already famliar with some of them.
What you're doing is trying to excuse christian for making statements like that. The issue here is that there is absolutely no evidence that karma has caused an earth quake in china, or that 9 - 11 is the result of homosexuality. There is no difference between me saying the all ruling spagheti monster caused an earth quake in china and a religious person saying his god caused it.