im not afraid, that any side will be dominated completely. as more ppl here has stated, there is allways some that roll the underdogs. and just because the polls here shows, that many wants to be destruction, it dosnt mean that its going to be so! not everyone uses this forum, and i bet there will come some kids along who wants to be the "good guys". so there will be kids and "hardcore" ppl on both sides, and destruction gonna be played my average/hardcore ppl as well
IM still dead serious when I say 3 of the top 6 classes in the game are dwarven classes.
My group with 3 sword masters a hammerer 2 rune priest will be ready.
I'll give you two...... Ironbreaker will be THE tank and Runepriest will be THE healer for Order. Hammerer and Engineer both strike me as meh. Engineer will have situational use, but that's about it.
I plan on starting off as either a Hammerer or a Choppa (Destro counterpart) depending on how things shake out. I am not convinced that either will be all that good though. I'm worried that Hammerer will be a neutered class in that it may end up not doing much more damage than a tank, but will be limited to medium armor and won't have the tanking ability of a tank. Now if Hammerer can do mad dps, then it's a different story. Time will tell. I am obviously hoping that Hammerer will end up throwing up the numbers.
I'm ready to jump ship for KoTBS if need be and will probably level both up.
Edited to add: 3 Sword Masters doesn't make sense to me. You'd be better off if one were a KoTBS for the buffs.
I didnt ban you for that <slap> But back to war. Heres whats gonna happen. the majority of the former elite daoc guilds LOVED being underdogs. (you always get more points ) so Im gonna say that most will roll Destruction but when they figure out that Order is outnumbered after release they will all reroll. this isnt wow where you have to stay in your home server because of gear progression. we left servers all the time in daoc.. rerolled and stayed just as effective (watches wow players gasp in awe) my guild rerolled 3 times, as hib and as alb and were dominant on each server we started over on. I have no fear that daoc players wont let us down. I know I have sent my gang lists of skills already so they can evaluate what order classes they are going to play. IM still dead serious when I say 3 of the top 6 classes in the game are dwarven classes.
My group with 3 sword masters a hammerer 2 rune priest will be ready.
Three sided war sure helped DAOC out a lot. When i played, our Mid realm would barely have enough to put up a fight. On most server's mid was extremely underpopulated
3 realms is not the solution.
btw: Ork = 40k , Orc = Fantasy, not taking a shot at you, just wanted to let you know.
do some digging and ask around and you will see in this dark vs light faction games most pve players tend to go light while most pvp'er went dark thus result in inbalance in this game, most of time light side doesn't stand a chance and people just ran away from pvp when encounter the dark side.
Answer: Shaiya do some digging and ask around and you will see in this dark vs light faction games most pve players tend to go light while most pvp'er went dark thus result in inbalance in this game, most of time light side doesn't stand a chance and people just ran away from pvp when encounter the dark side.
In the past most Dev's never thought to have mechanics to help out under populated sides ahead of time. They waited until it happened and their answers were never fast enough or good enough to fix the problem.
The WAR devs are very aware of this possiblity though they've not given specifics beyond Racial Pair or Realm soft caps on the population instead of a standard entire server hard caps they have hinted at various other things to help out the under populated side.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
In my considered opinion, those that are more interested in PvE and crafting will be drawn to the "Order" faction, while the more aggresive PvP centric players will gravitate to the "Distruction" faction.
The result will be Order focusing on building up their capital city as a shinning symbol of their worth and accomplishments, only to have Destruction come along and take it away ( saying "Hey Order, give me your lunch money!" ).
"Don't corpse-camp that idea. Its never gonna rez" Bladezz (The Guild)
But in one of the podcasts I think it was Paul who said they are makeing limits on Destruction and Order , I really think it may not be that bad If some are forced to play Order It may show how much different it is then playing Alliance in WoW and we may enjoy it more then we thought. Eventually we may or may not want to reroll the opposite side when we are tired of our side.Im sure the pop limit is only going to be for a few months after launch though so newer players can choose whatever side.If not find a new server that Isnt one sided.
No such thing as luck, just believing in it is what makes it real to you and really...thats all you need.
Wayyyy too much over speculation in this thread...way too small of a population is represented on this board so its unlikely that there will be a huge inbalance.
Besides, it eventually comes down to balancing itself out. Population bonuses, etc, and the fact that some guilds will transfer over to the other side quickly if they feel that there is not enough to kill on their side.
if a majority of players are choosing one side above another the game will become very boring fast for the less populated side especially since the actual number counts. Unless ofcourse they try to balance it some way it will end like other games of the same type.
Just like in DaoC, when I rolled on an underpopulated Hib server, it will be MORE fun to be against multiple enemies. Face it . . running into a horde of Albs and wiping them ALL with a single group is priceless and tons more entertaining than taking few groups and picking off single opponents or groups one at a time.
It's about the challenge. It's about the rush. Do something that excites you. Do something that's worth your time.
That being said, I hope no one plays order -- except me.
Thinking in the classic MMO 2 sided factions chaos would have a larger population ( heck i was going to be a squig herder)
but unlike (sorry WoW comparison) the horde (the perceived evil side) weren't really evil. heck the undead only worked on others to live longer or create more of their kind.
The evil side on this game is REAL evil. that turned me off after looking into it. it will do much the same to others.
As for the 3 realms or sides. I think they learned from DAoC its next to impossible to balance 3. Thats why they went down to 2 in this game. Its not as exciting from a gameplay view but i think it will make balancing pvp far easier.
Everyone who played DAoC knows in the beginning Mids were way to powerfull and as the game progressed and Mythic tried to balance 3 realms with 30 or so classes while releasing expansions with new overpowered classes/abilities it was just too much. In the end when i left Hibs owned most relics on all the servers with their overpowered bs, and alb all caster 8 man groups were near unbeatable for mids.
So im all for 2 realms. Just put in some caps on population if one side gets to 33% more than the other lock it. I have no problem, people who whine they cant join their friends can go jump in a lake They can jsut wait a few days till the population levels out or their friend can reroll.
I'll give you two...... Ironbreaker will be THE tank and Runepriest will be THE healer for Order. Hammerer and Engineer both strike me as meh. Engineer will have situational use, but that's about it.
I plan on starting off as either a Hammerer or a Choppa (Destro counterpart) depending on how things shake out. I am not convinced that either will be all that good though. I'm worried that Hammerer will be a neutered class in that it may end up not doing much more damage than a tank, but will be limited to medium armor and won't have the tanking ability of a tank. Now if Hammerer can do mad dps, then it's a different story. Time will tell. I am obviously hoping that Hammerer will end up throwing up the numbers.
I'm ready to jump ship for KoTBS if need be and will probably level both up.
Edited to add: 3 Sword Masters doesn't make sense to me. You'd be better off if one were a KoTBS for the buffs.
No class screams assist train like Swordmaster thats why. Theres a dif between most dominant class and best class for my group. I have two of my guys already set to play swordmasters I just have to get the third guy and the fourth to say which will be a hammerer and what will the other play. but Im not letting anyone play hybrid tanks in my assist train. someone already said they wanted to be a witch hunter... I was like.. Umm no.
Knights I only saw in action before they decided to retool all the mechanics. But it will play like a melee heavy skald. and since its the opposite of the Chaos warrior.... its gonna suq for what my team has in mind.
K.I.S.S has always been my philosophy with my groups, so not getting cute now in my old age. the sword master has abilities that make him too much of an assett. and the fact that they can use guard makes me LOL. Depending on how melee heavy people decide to go if we will use a swordmassa as a hybrid tank to defend me or not.
but as it looks right now, its a whole lotta light and hybrids running around. so if the game actually continues like that, we will be in first place within a month of game launch.
In my considered opinion, those that are more interested in PvE and crafting will be drawn to the "Order" faction, while the more aggresive PvP centric players will gravitate to the "Distruction" faction. The result will be Order focusing on building up their capital city as a shinning symbol of their worth and accomplishments, only to have Destruction come along and take it away ( saying "Hey Order, give me your lunch money!" ).
Pretty much how Vanguard played out as well. I was on the Order side and even when 1 Shadow player attacked some Crafters they would all run screaming. I would be like, 'guys!! There are 4 of us and 1 of them!' but gankers and the hardcore PvPers went Shadow mainly. This should be a key issue for the devs from day one so hopefully they come up with a solution.
BTW thats why I like the idea of 48vs48 for AoC siege battles. A guild with 400 members vs a guild with 55 members cant just steam role them. Its a fair fight regardless.
I always found it interesting how people assume that online game fan site polls will somehow play out in-game ... they never really do. People who come to sites like these and post must be what, 10% at best of MMORPG players these days?
Order will likely do just fine with player numbers, they have pretty High Elves at release. In free-for all RvR, the side with more players will do well if the game is well designed, even if many of the 'hard-core PvP' folk are on the other side.
This was an issue that Mythic resolved in DAOC a long time ago. In Dark Age of Camelot, when one or two of the realms became more populated, they gave free leveling incentives to compensate. You could create a toon on a lightly populated realm and receive as many as 30 free levels. Based on how lopsided the server population was, they would adjust the free levels. This really helped kickstart interest in the weaker RVR team. It would only make sense that Mythic would use a similar mechanic to balance Warhammer Online after its launch. Also, in the Paris Q&A Videos on YouTube, this issue was addressed by Jeff Hickman. He assured the questioner that incentives existed to maintain population balance.
Before I stick my boot in on this subject let me state that I am buying this game, I have played the table top for the past 20 years and have always been a massive fan. However here lies my biggest issue with this game...with the table top game each side had the same points. Playing WAR online is like having an 8000 point army vs a 2000 point army. Outcome is inevitable... I keep reading how Chaos is more popular than Order and that it will be slightly in-balanced. However today I read a survey done by another reputable gaming site. The worst stats I saw were Chaos outnumbering Order 4 to 1 with the closest match having Chaos outnumbering Order 2 to 1 when comparing similar career paths. I am playing Order mainly since the guild I joined is Order. My questions are: * Is this going to be one massive Chaos feast with Order being pwned the whole time? * How will they balance the game if 3/4 of the gamers go Chaos? * If Order is getting bashed then hordes of players will emigrate to Chaos causing a much larger in-balance thus making the whole aim of the game pointless. Forget bugs on launch, instances etc etc. All that can be overlooked or fixed but I fear WAR will have the same problem as PotBS and Chaos will be like England winning by default due to the number of players they have over everyone else. Maybe WAR should have had 3 sides...
Or they could have included some of the other chaos powers and set them against each other.
Chaos has always been the strongest power in the world, only that fact that most of it's might is spent fighting itself has prevented it from dominating the world.
Along the same lines, neither Orks nor Dark Elves should be aligned with Chaos. They should be their own entities, spending as much time at war with each other as with the forces of order.
I don't think a lot of the people picking and choosing Destruction or order actually realize that your descripto of the populations for the races are like this within lore (they probably don't care to be honest ).
I think that EA/Mythic should do the population cap thing that they always talked about for the sake of balance (where did this crazy idea come from). I think also in RvR, your chances of winning will solely be based off your "mix and pick" of classes you join up with to engage the enemy and not solely on how many Destruction (over Order) it is on the server.
I hate to say this ,but from my knowledge after a game starts, many people although rolling evil aligned characters somehow change their minds and go goody two shoes for some reason (has happened in all the games I have played which includes WOW,EQ2,SWG) and don't think Warhammer will be any different.
Before I stick my boot in on this subject let me state that I am buying this game, I have played the table top for the past 20 years and have always been a massive fan. However here lies my biggest issue with this game...with the table top game each side had the same points. Playing WAR online is like having an 8000 point army vs a 2000 point army. Outcome is inevitable... I keep reading how Chaos is more popular than Order and that it will be slightly in-balanced. However today I read a survey done by another reputable gaming site. The worst stats I saw were Chaos outnumbering Order 4 to 1 with the closest match having Chaos outnumbering Order 2 to 1 when comparing similar career paths. I am playing Order mainly since the guild I joined is Order. My questions are: * Is this going to be one massive Chaos feast with Order being pwned the whole time? * How will they balance the game if 3/4 of the gamers go Chaos? * If Order is getting bashed then hordes of players will emigrate to Chaos causing a much larger in-balance thus making the whole aim of the game pointless. Forget bugs on launch, instances etc etc. All that can be overlooked or fixed but I fear WAR will have the same problem as PotBS and Chaos will be like England winning by default due to the number of players they have over everyone else. Maybe WAR should have had 3 sides...
You can state the same thing about ho WoW has Horde and Alliance. It started out that Horde was actually imbalanaced and Alliance outnumbered them. Then it switched and now they are more or less balanced. I think initialy the game will have balancing problems within the first 6 months to a year. Then all the players will settle. I like class though on both order and chaos, but since the newest class was released I am starting to more and more sway towards Order. The White Lion class interests me.
I know it's only one site but alot of votes. Looks like it sways to Destruction, but just by a small margin. If this is how the entire fanbase is represented (unlikely, but possible) then I think there will be a reasonable balance when it launches.
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
In DAOC BETA and in WOW BETA all of the testers and the forum viewers thought that the evil race would be the most populated, but as soon as the games where released the "good guys" were the most popular.
My faction of choice was always Nurgle, no real desire to play anything else so I will most likely just watch and see how things go at launch before I make any real decisions.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
Comments
im not afraid, that any side will be dominated completely. as more ppl here has stated, there is allways some that roll the underdogs. and just because the polls here shows, that many wants to be destruction, it dosnt mean that its going to be so! not everyone uses this forum, and i bet there will come some kids along who wants to be the "good guys". so there will be kids and "hardcore" ppl on both sides, and destruction gonna be played my average/hardcore ppl as well
I'll give you two...... Ironbreaker will be THE tank and Runepriest will be THE healer for Order. Hammerer and Engineer both strike me as meh. Engineer will have situational use, but that's about it.
I plan on starting off as either a Hammerer or a Choppa (Destro counterpart) depending on how things shake out. I am not convinced that either will be all that good though. I'm worried that Hammerer will be a neutered class in that it may end up not doing much more damage than a tank, but will be limited to medium armor and won't have the tanking ability of a tank. Now if Hammerer can do mad dps, then it's a different story. Time will tell. I am obviously hoping that Hammerer will end up throwing up the numbers.
I'm ready to jump ship for KoTBS if need be and will probably level both up.
Edited to add: 3 Sword Masters doesn't make sense to me. You'd be better off if one were a KoTBS for the buffs.
Three sided war sure helped DAOC out a lot. When i played, our Mid realm would barely have enough to put up a fight. On most server's mid was extremely underpopulated
3 realms is not the solution.
btw: Ork = 40k , Orc = Fantasy, not taking a shot at you, just wanted to let you know.
Answer: Shaiya
do some digging and ask around and you will see in this dark vs light faction games most pve players tend to go light while most pvp'er went dark thus result in inbalance in this game, most of time light side doesn't stand a chance and people just ran away from pvp when encounter the dark side.
i will be human race for sure.
The WAR devs are very aware of this possiblity though they've not given specifics beyond Racial Pair or Realm soft caps on the population instead of a standard entire server hard caps they have hinted at various other things to help out the under populated side.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
In my considered opinion, those that are more interested in PvE and crafting will be drawn to the "Order" faction, while the more aggresive PvP centric players will gravitate to the "Distruction" faction.
The result will be Order focusing on building up their capital city as a shinning symbol of their worth and accomplishments, only to have Destruction come along and take it away ( saying "Hey Order, give me your lunch money!" ).
"Don't corpse-camp that idea. Its never gonna rez"
Bladezz (The Guild)
But in one of the podcasts I think it was Paul who said they are makeing limits on Destruction and Order , I really think it may not be that bad If some are forced to play Order It may show how much different it is then playing Alliance in WoW and we may enjoy it more then we thought. Eventually we may or may not want to reroll the opposite side when we are tired of our side.Im sure the pop limit is only going to be for a few months after launch though so newer players can choose whatever side.If not find a new server that Isnt one sided.
No such thing as luck, just believing in it is what makes it real to you and really...thats all you need.
Im on nobodies' side but my own.
Wayyyy too much over speculation in this thread...way too small of a population is represented on this board so its unlikely that there will be a huge inbalance.
Besides, it eventually comes down to balancing itself out. Population bonuses, etc, and the fact that some guilds will transfer over to the other side quickly if they feel that there is not enough to kill on their side.
Exactly why i'm rolling whichever side is less popular.
if a majority of players are choosing one side above another the game will become very boring fast for the less populated side especially since the actual number counts. Unless ofcourse they try to balance it some way it will end like other games of the same type.
Just like in DaoC, when I rolled on an underpopulated Hib server, it will be MORE fun to be against multiple enemies. Face it . . running into a horde of Albs and wiping them ALL with a single group is priceless and tons more entertaining than taking few groups and picking off single opponents or groups one at a time.
It's about the challenge. It's about the rush. Do something that excites you. Do something that's worth your time.
That being said, I hope no one plays order -- except me.
Thinking in the classic MMO 2 sided factions chaos would have a larger population ( heck i was going to be a squig herder)
but unlike (sorry WoW comparison) the horde (the perceived evil side) weren't really evil. heck the undead only worked on others to live longer or create more of their kind.
The evil side on this game is REAL evil. that turned me off after looking into it. it will do much the same to others.
As for the 3 realms or sides. I think they learned from DAoC its next to impossible to balance 3. Thats why they went down to 2 in this game. Its not as exciting from a gameplay view but i think it will make balancing pvp far easier.
Everyone who played DAoC knows in the beginning Mids were way to powerfull and as the game progressed and Mythic tried to balance 3 realms with 30 or so classes while releasing expansions with new overpowered classes/abilities it was just too much. In the end when i left Hibs owned most relics on all the servers with their overpowered bs, and alb all caster 8 man groups were near unbeatable for mids.
So im all for 2 realms. Just put in some caps on population if one side gets to 33% more than the other lock it. I have no problem, people who whine they cant join their friends can go jump in a lake They can jsut wait a few days till the population levels out or their friend can reroll.
I'll give you two...... Ironbreaker will be THE tank and Runepriest will be THE healer for Order. Hammerer and Engineer both strike me as meh. Engineer will have situational use, but that's about it.
I plan on starting off as either a Hammerer or a Choppa (Destro counterpart) depending on how things shake out. I am not convinced that either will be all that good though. I'm worried that Hammerer will be a neutered class in that it may end up not doing much more damage than a tank, but will be limited to medium armor and won't have the tanking ability of a tank. Now if Hammerer can do mad dps, then it's a different story. Time will tell. I am obviously hoping that Hammerer will end up throwing up the numbers.
I'm ready to jump ship for KoTBS if need be and will probably level both up.
Edited to add: 3 Sword Masters doesn't make sense to me. You'd be better off if one were a KoTBS for the buffs.
No class screams assist train like Swordmaster thats why. Theres a dif between most dominant class and best class for my group. I have two of my guys already set to play swordmasters I just have to get the third guy and the fourth to say which will be a hammerer and what will the other play. but Im not letting anyone play hybrid tanks in my assist train. someone already said they wanted to be a witch hunter... I was like.. Umm no.Knights I only saw in action before they decided to retool all the mechanics. But it will play like a melee heavy skald. and since its the opposite of the Chaos warrior.... its gonna suq for what my team has in mind.
K.I.S.S has always been my philosophy with my groups, so not getting cute now in my old age. the sword master has abilities that make him too much of an assett. and the fact that they can use guard makes me LOL. Depending on how melee heavy people decide to go if we will use a swordmassa as a hybrid tank to defend me or not.
but as it looks right now, its a whole lotta light and hybrids running around. so if the game actually continues like that, we will be in first place within a month of game launch.
Pretty much how Vanguard played out as well. I was on the Order side and even when 1 Shadow player attacked some Crafters they would all run screaming. I would be like, 'guys!! There are 4 of us and 1 of them!' but gankers and the hardcore PvPers went Shadow mainly. This should be a key issue for the devs from day one so hopefully they come up with a solution.
BTW thats why I like the idea of 48vs48 for AoC siege battles. A guild with 400 members vs a guild with 55 members cant just steam role them. Its a fair fight regardless.
I always found it interesting how people assume that online game fan site polls will somehow play out in-game ... they never really do. People who come to sites like these and post must be what, 10% at best of MMORPG players these days?
Order will likely do just fine with player numbers, they have pretty High Elves at release. In free-for all RvR, the side with more players will do well if the game is well designed, even if many of the 'hard-core PvP' folk are on the other side.
This was an issue that Mythic resolved in DAOC a long time ago. In Dark Age of Camelot, when one or two of the realms became more populated, they gave free leveling incentives to compensate. You could create a toon on a lightly populated realm and receive as many as 30 free levels. Based on how lopsided the server population was, they would adjust the free levels. This really helped kickstart interest in the weaker RVR team. It would only make sense that Mythic would use a similar mechanic to balance Warhammer Online after its launch. Also, in the Paris Q&A Videos on YouTube, this issue was addressed by Jeff Hickman. He assured the questioner that incentives existed to maintain population balance.
Chaos has always been the strongest power in the world, only that fact that most of it's might is spent fighting itself has prevented it from dominating the world.
Along the same lines, neither Orks nor Dark Elves should be aligned with Chaos. They should be their own entities, spending as much time at war with each other as with the forces of order.
I don't think a lot of the people picking and choosing Destruction or order actually realize that your descripto of the populations for the races are like this within lore (they probably don't care to be honest ).I think that EA/Mythic should do the population cap thing that they always talked about for the sake of balance (where did this crazy idea come from). I think also in RvR, your chances of winning will solely be based off your "mix and pick" of classes you join up with to engage the enemy and not solely on how many Destruction (over Order) it is on the server.
I hate to say this ,but from my knowledge after a game starts, many people although rolling evil aligned characters somehow change their minds and go goody two shoes for some reason (has happened in all the games I have played which includes WOW,EQ2,SWG) and don't think Warhammer will be any different.
You can state the same thing about ho WoW has Horde and Alliance. It started out that Horde was actually imbalanaced and Alliance outnumbered them. Then it switched and now they are more or less balanced. I think initialy the game will have balancing problems within the first 6 months to a year. Then all the players will settle. I like class though on both order and chaos, but since the newest class was released I am starting to more and more sway towards Order. The White Lion class interests me.
http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38841
I know it's only one site but alot of votes. Looks like it sways to Destruction, but just by a small margin. If this is how the entire fanbase is represented (unlikely, but possible) then I think there will be a reasonable balance when it launches.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
In DAOC BETA and in WOW BETA all of the testers and the forum viewers thought that the evil race would be the most populated, but as soon as the games where released the "good guys" were the most popular.
I know that I won't be on the side of destruction. The White Lion class will be far too cool, I hope.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
My faction of choice was always Nurgle, no real desire to play anything else so I will most likely just watch and see how things go at launch before I make any real decisions.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin