PEOPLE ARE SICK AND TIRED of all linear cookie cutter get 7 of X and bring it to Y so called "mmos".
we want what ultima online and pre-cu star wars galaxies was...
we want the ultimate sandbox style game where the players are the content and not stupid NPCs... we want aestetics, beautiness and diversity...
and most of all: an immerse open world and none instanced piece of crap like age of conan...
so dont say that you understand that its about bugs, because its not... until then I hope games like this fail
People that act like they want the best mmos are the ones that make mmos fail for three reasons.
1. They force devs listen to a minority and not the majority
2. They force devs to produce games with tons of features, which are broken by bugs
3. They destroy communities
New mmorpgs can't live up to your standards, and then you call them "cookie cutter" mmorpgs.
Give me a break man, can you please let people enjoy playing mmos. I wouldn't be surprised if you want every single mmorpg that comes out from 2008- 2020 to fail.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
So what I'm seeing is that Funcom and TR game that started out strong are doomed to fail because of unfinished game? I do feel that TR is going to end up free to play. I still don't feel that way about AOC. The reason because of patches to make it right. Do you think that it will be the same way for Warhammer?
My guess is that it will be the same for Warhammer. The mmo community wants mmos with lots of content, and features. Since devs have to make games in a timely manner some of these features aren't ready for release. Thus the product is called unfinished.
Maybe they should make all content open-source, and give players some free software, so whiny players can make whatever they want.
At this point I doubt there will ever be a great mmo. Mostly do to the fact that people seem to love to see mmorpgs fail. Why? Well I guess they love to be bored, or just love bashing games.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
So what I'm seeing is that Funcom and TR game that started out strong are doomed to fail because of unfinished game? I do feel that TR is going to end up free to play. I still don't feel that way about AOC. The reason because of patches to make it right. Do you think that it will be the same way for Warhammer?
TR looks like its in trouble I would say. Too bad because it a very fun game and would have succeeded if it had more high up content and RPG diversity. All it needed really. But sadly I don't think the devs really get that and I don't think they really are capable of it. Man if that game could borrow the ArenaNet Devs it would rock in a year. But oh well, thems the breaks.
I doubt AoC is doomed. Seems like it should have enough people who like the core gameplay and the content. Given some time the post 40 game should be OK I would think. AoC will not revolutionize anything contrary to Funcom claims. And probably will have mediocre PvP. But I think it should do OK. Like 200k subs or something. It will turn out to be a lot like AO. Have a number of decent or even good things but be a constant state of semi-poor development with a non-existent compreshenise design.
But that is not the point is it? The point of this thread is about HATE. Not the future of those games.
TR had a lot of haters. Most of them were just plain irrational because they simply did not like the game. A rational discussion by people like me who had problems with the game was virutally impossible.
AoC is different. There are haters of course, but there are also a lot of disappointed, disillusioned , or people with a number of valid complaints.
Look when people in TR came in and said the content above level 30 was really sparse. Almost no one came in and told them they were idiots. That is what happened with AoC. When people in TR said there were a lot more bugs in 30+ content you did not get the army of fanboys spouting out the Funcom party line like you did in AoC. Lastly the key features that were hyped in TR actually worked reasonably well even in the Higher level zones.
TR - control points - worked and were fun
TR- early access - straightforward and easy to use
AoC - Sieges - obviously borked
AoC - PvE city invasions - borked
AoC - Early Access offer - a number of people found it highly deceptive
AoC - post tortage not nearly as polished as Fanboys repeatedly claim
TR and AoC both had/have the typical haters. But AoC has a whole other dynamic going on as well. They more misrepresenations that come out either by Funcom or Fanboys the more of an opposite reaction will occurr.
TR simply did not have an army of fanboys and the deceptive marketing that Funcom currently does. They had normal pre-release hype and used RG's name for that. But the TR Beta changed the hype situation for TR. And they did not have broken key features, they lacked a number of things like an auction house and good crafting etc. But they did not promise those things would be key to the game and revolutionize the industry. I mean a lot of Beta Testers told them TR was not ready for release especially the crafting. But they never claimed TR crafting would revolutionize the game, it was only ever billed as a normal feature of the game like any other MMORPG.
The run up to the two games are fairly similar as far as fan reaction. Although I paid attention to the Dev statements of both games and now that AoC is out the Funcom devs put out a lot of BS that the TR devs did not. But once AoC truly saw the light day they took rather different directions because of stuff like that. And now you are seeing the result.
TR looks like its in trouble I would say. Too bad because it a very fun game and would have succeeded if it had more high up content and RPG diversity. All it needed really. But sadly I don't think the devs really get that and I don't think they really are capable of it. Man if that game could borrow the ArenaNet Devs it would rock in a year. But oh well, thems the breaks.
I doubt AoC is doomed. Seems like it should have enough people who like the core gameplay and the content. Given some time the post 40 game should be OK I would think. AoC will not revolutionize anything contrary to Funcom claims. And probably will have mediocre PvP. But I think it should do OK. Like 200k subs or something. It will turn out to be a lot like AO. Have a number of decent or even good things but be a constant state of semi-poor development with a non-existent compreshenise design.
But that is not the point is it? The point of this thread is about HATE. Not the future of those games.
TR had a lot of haters. Most of them were just plain irrational because they simply did not like the game. A rational discussion by people like me who had problems with the game was virutally impossible.
AoC is different. There are haters of course, but there are also a lot of disappointed, disillusioned , or people with a number of valid complaints.
Look when people in TR came in and said the content above level 30 was really sparse. Almost no one came in and told them they were idiots. That is what happened with AoC. When people in TR said there were a lot more bugs in 30+ content you did not get the army of fanboys spouting out the Funcom party line like you did in AoC. Lastly the key features that were hyped in TR actually worked reasonably well even in the Higher level zones.
TR - control points - worked and were fun
TR- early access - straightforward and easy to use
AoC - Sieges - obviously borked
AoC - PvE city invasions - borked
AoC - Early Access offer - a number of people found it highly deceptive
AoC - post tortage not nearly as polished as Fanboys repeatedly claim
TR and AoC both had/have the typical haters. But AoC has a whole other dynamic going on as well. They more misrepresenations that come out either by Funcom or Fanboys the more of an opposite reaction will occurr.
TR simply did not have an army of fanboys and the deceptive marketing that Funcom currently does. They had normal pre-release hype and used RG's name for that. But the TR Beta changed the hype situation for TR. And they did not have broken key features, they lacked a number of things like an auction house and good crafting etc. But they did not promise those things would be key to the game and revolutionize the industry. I mean a lot of Beta Testers told them TR was not ready for release especially the crafting. But they never claimed TR crafting would revolutionize the game, it was only ever billed as a normal feature of the game like any other MMORPG.
The run up to the two games are fairly similar as far as fan reaction. Although I paid attention to the Dev statements of both games and now that AoC is out the Funcom devs put out a lot of BS that the TR devs did not. But once AoC truly saw the light day they took rather different directions because of stuff like that. And now you are seeing the result.
True, but I think that Funcom did what they did, because they had a rough time with Anarchy Online. Anarchy Online had a disastrous launch, and they didn't want to repeat that with AoC. So basicly Funcom panicked and promised features, and really tried to hype AoC.
The good news like you said is the fact that Funcom is really starting to fix AoC, and add features to it. I personally want AoC to succeed, because I want Anarchy Online to hold up not because I like AoC.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
I don't have hate for it per se, but it is buggy, incomplete, lousy framerates, no content 50+, the promised PVP, sieges are either broken or not in the game.
Why would I want to pay to play such a game? Doesn't mean I hate it tho.
Yes, they have come out and said they will be doing 2 patches a week, that is a sign that they are listening to everyone at least. As for Warhammer, yeah, it will be the same I'm sure. There hasn't been a good MMO that has come out in years that didn't have unfinished area's.
Yes, they have come out and said they will be doing 2 patches a week, that is a sign that they are listening to everyone at least. As for Warhammer, yeah, it will be the same I'm sure. There hasn't been a good MMO that has come out in years that didn't have unfinished area's.
LotRO comes to mind. And unfinished areas isn't exactly what AoC has. AoC has game breaking bugs and features that were supposed to sell the game that aren't implemented.
TR looks like its in trouble I would say. Too bad because it a very fun game and would have succeeded if it had more high up content and RPG diversity. All it needed really. But sadly I don't think the devs really get that and I don't think they really are capable of it. Man if that game could borrow the ArenaNet Devs it would rock in a year. But oh well, thems the breaks.
I doubt AoC is doomed. Seems like it should have enough people who like the core gameplay and the content. Given some time the post 40 game should be OK I would think. AoC will not revolutionize anything contrary to Funcom claims. And probably will have mediocre PvP. But I think it should do OK. Like 200k subs or something. It will turn out to be a lot like AO. Have a number of decent or even good things but be a constant state of semi-poor development with a non-existent compreshenise design.
But that is not the point is it? The point of this thread is about HATE. Not the future of those games.
TR had a lot of haters. Most of them were just plain irrational because they simply did not like the game. A rational discussion by people like me who had problems with the game was virutally impossible.
AoC is different. There are haters of course, but there are also a lot of disappointed, disillusioned , or people with a number of valid complaints.
Look when people in TR came in and said the content above level 30 was really sparse. Almost no one came in and told them they were idiots. That is what happened with AoC. When people in TR said there were a lot more bugs in 30+ content you did not get the army of fanboys spouting out the Funcom party line like you did in AoC. Lastly the key features that were hyped in TR actually worked reasonably well even in the Higher level zones.
TR - control points - worked and were fun
TR- early access - straightforward and easy to use
AoC - Sieges - obviously borked
AoC - PvE city invasions - borked
AoC - Early Access offer - a number of people found it highly deceptive
AoC - post tortage not nearly as polished as Fanboys repeatedly claim
TR and AoC both had/have the typical haters. But AoC has a whole other dynamic going on as well. They more misrepresenations that come out either by Funcom or Fanboys the more of an opposite reaction will occurr.
TR simply did not have an army of fanboys and the deceptive marketing that Funcom currently does. They had normal pre-release hype and used RG's name for that. But the TR Beta changed the hype situation for TR. And they did not have broken key features, they lacked a number of things like an auction house and good crafting etc. But they did not promise those things would be key to the game and revolutionize the industry. I mean a lot of Beta Testers told them TR was not ready for release especially the crafting. But they never claimed TR crafting would revolutionize the game, it was only ever billed as a normal feature of the game like any other MMORPG.
The run up to the two games are fairly similar as far as fan reaction. Although I paid attention to the Dev statements of both games and now that AoC is out the Funcom devs put out a lot of BS that the TR devs did not. But once AoC truly saw the light day they took rather different directions because of stuff like that. And now you are seeing the result.
True, but I think that Funcom did what they did, because they had a rough time with Anarchy Online. Anarchy Online had a disastrous launch, and they didn't want to repeat that with AoC. So basicly Funcom panicked and promised features, and really tried to hype AoC.
The good news like you said is the fact that Funcom is really starting to fix AoC, and add features to it. I personally want AoC to succeed, because I want Anarchy Online to hold up not because I like AoC.
Could be. I never paid a lot of attention to AO so its hard for me to say. In the end the reason doesn't matter much really. Fyrewall seems to blame Gaute for a lot of this type and stuff and even said AO got better about such things when he was placed on AoC. I dunno, doesn't really matter I suppose.
I would like to say that AOC is a good game that will only get better with time. Yes I understand why alot of people would get upset with the bugs, bugs and more bugs in the game. Yes I understand where we as gamers spend money on a game and we get a game thats not all the way done. It would be like ordering a uncooked food and told to eat. be honest people this game is fun and it not like Funcom is not trying to fix it. Unlike TR, who knows what they are doing over there. Funcom is giving the gamers at least 2 patches a week!!! For me that shows they are trying to make it right. For me that shows that the DEVS are working thier butts off. Should they have waited a little longer? I would say yes. All in all I'm having fun most of the time. So why so much Hate for the game? thanks,
Criticism /= hate. If you are enjoying the game then that is one persons opinion. Just like you are expressing that opinion others are expressing their own opinion and have every right to do so. Why is it that the fans of any game immediately cry hate when someone offers criticisms? Is it to make yourself feel better or is it a poor attempt at discrediting those with viewpoints unlike your own?
Yes, they have come out and said they will be doing 2 patches a week, that is a sign that they are listening to everyone at least. As for Warhammer, yeah, it will be the same I'm sure. There hasn't been a good MMO that has come out in years that didn't have unfinished area's.
LotRO comes to mind. And unfinished areas isn't exactly what AoC has. AoC has game breaking bugs and features that were supposed to sell the game that aren't implemented.
If it were merely lack of content and polish at 40+. You would what happened in TR. A bunch of haters who felt vindicated by that even though for many such things are expected in a release and as long as its not too terrible its bearable especially if it gets fixed. And some set of normal people for whom that was a real issue but did not go overboard or even post about such things.
Generally what you get is some set of haters, who will seize any negative thing to say the ENTIRE game sucks.
Unfortunately for AoC it really does have major issues on some levels. I use the word major because Funcom billed these features as important over and over. If they do not work then that is a major issue. Simple as that.
Even worse the fanboys fan the flames by ignoring or excusing these things.
Its not the crime its the coverup so to speak. The fanboys would have been much better served to NOT have claimed AoC was perfect.
Unfortunately fanboys do exactly the opposite of hater and take one positive feature and claim the ENTIRE game is awesome.
So with AoC you have a perfect storm of a whole lot of Fanboys and a whole lot of misrepresentation flying the face of actual facts.
The things is the facts themselves are not really all that bad. Not like say Dark and Light. But the previous statements concerning these facts by FunCom combined with the sheer amount of fanboys and their frrustratingly stupid and misleading responses (just as frustrating as haters) mean things are doomed to go a certain way. Because even normal, not that interested in posting people will feel like its necessary to respond.
So its mostly about context. And context is actually very important.
Love Hate whats the hell does it matter I personally think and I'm sure a ton disagree that it is just a matter of dividing the masses now.
Once Upon a time you had UO was alone in its field no competition.So you end up with alll of the PnP and Real RP style players getting interested in it. And as the Dev/Company you see that Video games make a lot of money.So you think to yourself Hmmm... I think we can get a lot more people to play these types of games so you start to develop to that..
Keep in mind only the geek and nerds played DnD back then it wasn't all cool and ala mode like it is now.
Then EQ comes along with its neat graphics and starts to OMG market the game. you heard about EQ everywhere from TV to viral(even though it wasn't as big then) and the gaming mags and more...
So now you get a much more main stream group playing these types of games. (not your average jock of course) but more kids and gamers per say.
few years go by and now we find our selves in the WoW age(note reference to ice age being a bad thing to happen)and they do what but say HEY EVERYONE LOOK AT OUR GAME. TO the MASSES! I mean till WoW the gaming industry was clueless to marketing it seems..
So now every joker on the planet sees it not like in the first UO day's where word of mouth was the big marketing tool.So seeing as gaming is huge and they made cool Adverts on TV(not really ) Every damn Tard on earth goes out tells mom to buy a copy and plays it.
So here over the years you now have old and new school playing the same dumbed down crap IMO. Any you get a Devision of the sects.
I know the only solution is for a AAA sandbox ffa old school game whitch give us that but it needs to be well made of course as any game should be. Once that is done I think the two sects will move to their corners and we would see a lot less of the issues people seems to have here . Not to mention allow the Devs/Companies to better monitor the game they are working on for their players and see that the money will still flow in like butter.
For the past 4 yrs the separation has been slowly happening and once the marketing sees the demand is just as big on one side of the fence as the other we will start seeing more diverse games coming out.
"The most important thing is to have the design support the players in setting their own goals in both cooperative and competitive interaction with one another." - Ironore -
Man, what is it with people on this site and sandbox mmo's? Its almost kind of sad. It reminds me of going to the bar at 21 and seeing the 36 year old guy with the jean jacket and the camero cut unable to grow up. The market has changed and the people have spoken with what matters most in commerce...money. Nobody cares who made the first or when you started playing mmo's people want something they can enjoy and escape the daily grind with. **By the way i have to add that if UO had the amount of actual subscriptions of people who claim they played it, they'd give WoW a run for their money.
Now don't get me wrong i'm not a fan of the amount of bugs, instancing in Conan but its still a good game at its core. Maybe in the long run it will grow to a truly HUGE mmo only time will tell. I just don't see however that sandbox mmo's are the answer. Everyone hails pre cu SWG as this great game...outside of the huge pvp battles and crafting that game was god awful.
Daily GRIND: Every mission had you go to a randomn hill of space bunnies and blow up the camp for 500 credits. The more money you wanted...the tougher the bunnies. How is this better than level capped areas in (i love this term) amusement park mmo's? SWG was a friggin grind. Eve (shutter) is the same except its done over time whether you are online or not. Let me think....move from area to different area in a quest based scenario? OR just sit on a randomn place for NO REASON and kill space bunnies till i get rifle III skill....which leads me to the next
Skill v. Class system: Whats the hype on this? Is it the freedom to change? If so, I can agree with it to a point. I like the talent tree system. I can be a dps, maybe a healer type or straight support depending on choices. But at the end of the day I am the class i started out as. Freedom to change is important but i'd rather spend an in game minor monetary amount and change instantly then...once again GRIND out another 200k xp so i can change from rifle to pistol skill.
Again, all i've seen in these sandbox's is one giant grind after another with no story, point or meaning. You tell me to create my own but in order to do this i have to find a large amount of people who look at this empty box and see the same vision i do. Seems like a bit of a stretch. Or I need to build the biggest, richest guild so people come find me...again...grind and time sink. The casual player is the most represented in this market, why go to work, do your things after work and then log in to "work" on a game? Seems like work, seems like not alot of fun and it seems like they're dieing out for a good reason.
Man, what is it with people on this site and sandbox mmo's? Its almost kind of sad. It reminds me of going to the bar at 21 and seeing the 36 year old guy with the jean jacket and the camero cut unable to grow up. The market has changed and the people have spoken with what matters most in commerce...money. Nobody cares who made the first or when you started playing mmo's people want something they can enjoy and escape the daily grind with. **By the way i have to add that if UO had the amount of actual subscriptions of people who claim they played it, they'd give WoW a run for their money. Now don't get me wrong i'm not a fan of the amount of bugs, instancing in Conan but its still a good game at its core. Maybe in the long run it will grow to a truly HUGE mmo only time will tell. I just don't see however that sandbox mmo's are the answer. Everyone hails pre cu SWG as this great game...outside of the huge pvp battles and crafting that game was god awful. Daily GRIND: Every mission had you go to a randomn hill of space bunnies and blow up the camp for 500 credits. The more money you wanted...the tougher the bunnies. How is this better than level capped areas in (i love this term) amusement park mmo's? SWG was a friggin grind. Eve (shutter) is the same except its done over time whether you are online or not. Let me think....move from area to different area in a quest based scenario? OR just sit on a randomn place for NO REASON and kill space bunnies till i get rifle III skill....which leads me to the next Skill v. Class system: Whats the hype on this? Is it the freedom to change? If so, I can agree with it to a point. I like the talent tree system. I can be a dps, maybe a healer type or straight support depending on choices. But at the end of the day I am the class i started out as. Freedom to change is important but i'd rather spend an in game minor monetary amount and change instantly then...once again GRIND out another 200k xp so i can change from rifle to pistol skill. Again, all i've seen in these sandbox's is one giant grind after another with no story, point or meaning. You tell me to create my own but in order to do this i have to find a large amount of people who look at this empty box and see the same vision i do. Seems like a bit of a stretch. Or I need to build the biggest, richest guild so people come find me...again...grind and time sink. The casual player is the most represented in this market, why go to work, do your things after work and then log in to "work" on a game? Seems like work, seems like not alot of fun and it seems like they're dieing out for a good reason.
Let them go my friends....let them go
I dunno man, I just dunno. I mean the sandbox fanatics crop up all the time but they seem to be greater in number in AoC.
I think its the player created cities. Any hint of player housing and they come out of the woodwork.
Man, what is it with people on this site and sandbox mmo's? Its almost kind of sad. It reminds me of going to the bar at 21 and seeing the 36 year old guy with the jean jacket and the camero cut unable to grow up. The market has changed and the people have spoken with what matters most in commerce...money. Nobody cares who made the first or when you started playing mmo's people want something they can enjoy and escape the daily grind with. **By the way i have to add that if UO had the amount of actual subscriptions of people who claim they played it, they'd give WoW a run for their money. Now don't get me wrong i'm not a fan of the amount of bugs, instancing in Conan but its still a good game at its core. Maybe in the long run it will grow to a truly HUGE mmo only time will tell. I just don't see however that sandbox mmo's are the answer. Everyone hails pre cu SWG as this great game...outside of the huge pvp battles and crafting that game was god awful. Daily GRIND: Every mission had you go to a randomn hill of space bunnies and blow up the camp for 500 credits. The more money you wanted...the tougher the bunnies. How is this better than level capped areas in (i love this term) amusement park mmo's? SWG was a friggin grind. Eve (shutter) is the same except its done over time whether you are online or not. Let me think....move from area to different area in a quest based scenario? OR just sit on a randomn place for NO REASON and kill space bunnies till i get rifle III skill....which leads me to the next Skill v. Class system: Whats the hype on this? Is it the freedom to change? If so, I can agree with it to a point. I like the talent tree system. I can be a dps, maybe a healer type or straight support depending on choices. But at the end of the day I am the class i started out as. Freedom to change is important but i'd rather spend an in game minor monetary amount and change instantly then...once again GRIND out another 200k xp so i can change from rifle to pistol skill. Again, all i've seen in these sandbox's is one giant grind after another with no story, point or meaning. You tell me to create my own but in order to do this i have to find a large amount of people who look at this empty box and see the same vision i do. Seems like a bit of a stretch. Or I need to build the biggest, richest guild so people come find me...again...grind and time sink. The casual player is the most represented in this market, why go to work, do your things after work and then log in to "work" on a game? Seems like work, seems like not alot of fun and it seems like they're dieing out for a good reason.
Let them go my friends....let them go
lol I've got to agree with you man. I remember when in SWG you would have to destroy lairs that would constantly spawn enemies. Anyone who thinks that is fun has problems , or just loves to waste their life grinding. Quests are definitely needed in a game to make leveling easier and funner.
I think the major selling point of SWG was its extremely large world, and the player housing. I loved the housing in SWG. Also another selling point of SWG is the fact that you didn't just have to fight, you could become a musician or dancer. Taverns were a place you could just hang out.
People don't seem to relize that SWG had a large empty world so player housing was a must have. On the other hand it would be impossible to have player housing in WoW that isn't instanced, because the world is completely filled, with vegetation and everything. lol I remember running through Tatooine and all there was was desert and rock, and occasionaly I would see some houses. Or if I got lucky a large player city.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
Mainly because we are mad. AoC was supposed to be the Holy Grail of pvp, but for some reason it ended up being just another run of the mill, endless level and gear pve treadmill. Just like 99% of all mmorpgs ever made.
We were drolling in anticipation for Shadowbane 2, but after all that waiting they handed us WoW 2.
"It is in your nature to do one thing correctly; Before me, you rightfully tremble. But, fear is not what you owe me. You owe me awe." ~Francis Dolarhyde
Love Hate whats the hell does it matter I personally think and I'm sure a ton disagree that it is just a matter of dividing the masses now. Once Upon a time you had UO was alone in its field no competition.So you end up with alll of the PnP and Real RP style players getting interested in it. And as the Dev/Company you see that Video games make a lot of money.So you think to yourself Hmmm... I think we can get a lot more people to play these types of games so you start to develop to that.. Keep in mind only the geek and nerds played DnD back then it wasn't all cool and ala mode like it is now. Then EQ comes along with its neat graphics and starts to OMG market the game. you heard about EQ everywhere from TV to viral(even though it wasn't as big then) and the gaming mags and more... So now you get a much more main stream group playing these types of games. (not your average jock of course) but more kids and gamers per say. few years go by and now we find our selves in the WoW age(note reference to ice age being a bad thing to happen)and they do what but say HEY EVERYONE LOOK AT OUR GAME. TO the MASSES! I mean till WoW the gaming industry was clueless to marketing it seems.. So now every joker on the planet sees it not like in the first UO day's where word of mouth was the big marketing tool.So seeing as gaming is huge and they made cool Adverts on TV(not really ) Every damn Tard on earth goes out tells mom to buy a copy and plays it. So here over the years you now have old and new school playing the same dumbed down crap IMO. Any you get a Devision of the sects. I know the only solution is for a AAA sandbox ffa old school game whitch give us that but it needs to be well made of course as any game should be. Once that is done I think the two sects will move to their corners and we would see a lot less of the issues people seems to have here . Not to mention allow the Devs/Companies to better monitor the game they are working on for their players and see that the money will still flow in like butter. For the past 4 yrs the separation has been slowly happening and once the marketing sees the demand is just as big on one side of the fence as the other we will start seeing more diverse games coming out.
It's an internet fact that most people do not read RED or ORANGE text.
I think I made it to Love before I stopped reading.
Mainly because we are mad. AoC was supposed to be the Holy Grail of pvp, but for some reason it ended up being just another run of the mill, endless level and gear pve treadmill. Just like 99% of all mmorpgs ever made.
We were drolling in anticipation for Shadowbane 2, but after all that waiting they handed us WoW 2.
OMUGOSH!
Someone else here has FINALLY gotten around to punching them in the gut for the same things I've been talking about when it all began! I never thought the community would ever get past "God the Lag andBug!" long enough to actually realize its another treadmill game. Hell, it has been so long since I started talking about it that I'VE even let it go to jump on them for more popular topics around here.
You, sir, get a cookie. I'm not even joking, you get a farkin cookie. I'm not alone, anymore, and it makes me smile.
lol I've got to agree with you man. I remember when in SWG you would have to destroy lairs that would constantly spawn enemies. Anyone who thinks that is fun has problems , or just loves to waste their life grinding. Quests are definitely needed in a game to make leveling easier and funner.
I think the major selling point of SWG was its extremely large world, and the player housing. I loved the housing in SWG. Also another selling point of SWG is the fact that you didn't just have to fight, you could become a musician or dancer. Taverns were a place you could just hang out.
People don't seem to relize that SWG had a large empty world so player housing was a must have. On the other hand it would be impossible to have player housing in WoW that isn't instanced, because the world is completely filled, with vegetation and everything. lol I remember running through Tatooine and all there was was desert and rock, and occasionaly I would see some houses. Or if I got lucky a large player city.
To comment on this part.....
Killing the lairs....sucked. However, watching my avatar grow in the areas I specifically targeted once the lair was GONE.....awesome. But, here is the thing. The lairs? They were quests. Yeah, quests. What exactly makes THAT experience so different from the rest of the MMO world's "Kill X boars" quests? Its not like these other games are constantly offering tales of epic proportions here....in any given MMO, for each "Go do something AWESOME" quest you have 500 "Go do something really crappy for a few hours and then run across teh globe 5 times to 5 different people to gain less than a 10th of your level" quests.
Quests do not actually make ANYTHING more fun. At best, they trick really dumb people into thinking they aren't still just grinding mobs. The rest of us still view it as "grinding mobs"....we just get an xp bonus for talking to someone before we went.
Also, not to attack you or anything (I honestly just got a chuckle and wanted to share it)....but if you went to Tatooine (a desert planet) and expected to see anything BUT rocks and sand for miles...you perhaps expected the wrong thing. I do agree that they used WAY large maps to be free for player housing.
Someone else here has FINALLY gotten around to punching them in the gut for the same things I've been talking about when it all began! I never thought the community would ever get past "God the Lag andBug!" long enough to actually realize its another treadmill game. Hell, it has been so long since I started talking about it that I'VE even let it go to jump on them for more popular topics around here.
You, sir, get a cookie. I'm not even joking, you get a farkin cookie. I'm not alone, anymore, and it makes me smile.
People actually enjoy the game( forums are deceiving my friend). Just because you don't enjoy a game dosen't mean everybody else hates it. That's like saying everybody hates Halo just because you hate it.
In my opinion completely positive or negative reviews of games are pathetic.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
Killing the lairs....sucked. However, watching my avatar grow in the areas I specifically targeted once the lair was GONE.....awesome. But, here is the thing. The lairs? They were quests. Yeah, quests. What exactly makes THAT experience so different from the rest of the MMO world's "Kill X boars" quests? Its not like these other games are constantly offering tales of epic proportions here....in any given MMO, for each "Go do something AWESOME" quest you have 500 "Go do something really crappy for a few hours and then run across teh globe 5 times to 5 different people to gain less than a 10th of your level" quests.
Quests do not actually make ANYTHING more fun. At best, they trick really dumb people into thinking they aren't still just grinding mobs. The rest of us still view it as "grinding mobs"....we just get an xp bonus for talking to someone before we went.
Also, not to attack you or anything (I honestly just got a chuckle and wanted to share it)....but if you went to Tatooine (a desert planet) and expected to see anything BUT rocks and sand for miles...you perhaps expected the wrong thing. I do agree that they used WAY large maps to be free for player housing.
It is different actually, because not all quests in other mmorpgs are the simple kill ? get ? quests. SWG on the other hand only has those types of quests. Other mmorpgs actually have some quests with storylines. Don't get me wrong I used to love SWG, but it had problems. It wasn't perfect, like almost everyone claims.
Do I need to use a planet other than Tatooine as an example? Go back to any planet in SWG if you haven't quit SWG and search every planet. They are all barren. The only planet with vegetation is Naboo.
Our discussion is clearly becoming this isn't the SWG forums.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way. -Will Rogers
Someone else here has FINALLY gotten around to punching them in the gut for the same things I've been talking about when it all began! I never thought the community would ever get past "God the Lag andBug!" long enough to actually realize its another treadmill game. Hell, it has been so long since I started talking about it that I'VE even let it go to jump on them for more popular topics around here.
You, sir, get a cookie. I'm not even joking, you get a farkin cookie. I'm not alone, anymore, and it makes me smile.
People actually enjoy the game( forums are deceiving my friend). Just because you don't enjoy a game dosen't mean everybody else hates it. That's like saying everybody hates Halo just because you hate it.
In my opinion completely positive or negative reviews of games are pathetic.
Interesting that you quoted me and then put words into my mouth. I do not recall saying ANYONE (besides myself...and even then such a thing could only be inferred from my post, as I did not actually STATE such a thing) hated the game.
I've also never given a review of the game. More so, I have not given a completely negative OPINION of the game either. In fact, most times my "opinions" are focused on the company behind the game rather than the game itself, even. If you'd like, I can classify my hate into two separate levels.
A: I hate Funcom (on principle) for ______ reasons.
B: I greatly dislike AoC for many design reasons. I also dislike how they launched the game, and the quality therein. But, and this is important, I actually defer THAT dislike back into column A as it pertains more to my hate of the company (for making such choices and failing on so many promises) than it does to my dislike of the game.
The post you quoted was me being glad that someone finally attacked AoC from a design level (which is what I did initially, as the game was openly walking down a path which removes it from being anything LIKE the PvP experience they promised for years) instead just whining about release issues (which are important, and justified things to whine about).
I would like to say that AOC is a good game that will only get better with time. Yes I understand why alot of people would get upset with the bugs, bugs and more bugs in the game. Yes I understand where we as gamers spend money on a game and we get a game thats not all the way done. It would be like ordering a uncooked food and told to eat. be honest people this game is fun and it not like Funcom is not trying to fix it. Unlike TR, who knows what they are doing over there. Funcom is giving the gamers at least 2 patches a week!!! For me that shows they are trying to make it right. For me that shows that the DEVS are working thier butts off. Should they have waited a little longer? I would say yes. All in all I'm having fun most of the time. So why so much Hate for the game? thanks,
Bugs aren't the problem.
The problem is the design philosophy behind AoC and, let's be honest, the lack of design philosophy.
You see, AoC is the perfect example of everything that has gone wrong with MMORPGs in the past 10 years. It is extremely linear, the RPG mechanics are extremely badly thought out (if at all) and the core gameplay design is on the level "wouldn't it be nice if..."
In short, if this game succeeds it is going to drive the final nail into the coffin of everything MMORPGs originally stood for - content over fluff, dynamic persistent worlds, player freedom to choose his own way and make his own mark on the world in his own way... absolutely everything. It is the ultimate expression of shallowness of today's games - it railroads you down a pre-scripted content until you use it up and then move on.
It is an anti-MMORPG and if it succeeds it is going to seriously decrease any chance of a proper AAA MMORPG appearing anytime soon. Just like WoW's success almost obliterated any chance of non-EQlike game getting any proper funding. If AoC gets big we're looking at another 5 years of even worse games than those EQ ripoffs. Goodbye persistent, dynamic worlds with player-driven content. Hello linear "story MMORPGs" made for consoles.
And that's why I hate AoC.
/add
And I hate it because it is horribly badly designed and it covers its glaring lack of IQ by putting on a layer of glossy graphics and "revolutionary" button mashing schemes. If it succeeds the devs will get a message that they can sell any old crap if it's got enough polygons on screen. For me gameplay > graphics anytime and I can't find words harsh enough for devs who think gameplay a secondary consideration to teh awesomez gfx to put in their PR releases.
Written like a true Warhammer fan.
The design of the game is amazing. You obviously haven't even played this game because your post is so far off it's not even funny.
I do however see that you dislike even the slightest idea of this game though. Using Hate to describe a game is, umm.. beyond me..
Killing the lairs....sucked. However, watching my avatar grow in the areas I specifically targeted once the lair was GONE.....awesome. But, here is the thing. The lairs? They were quests. Yeah, quests. What exactly makes THAT experience so different from the rest of the MMO world's "Kill X boars" quests? Its not like these other games are constantly offering tales of epic proportions here....in any given MMO, for each "Go do something AWESOME" quest you have 500 "Go do something really crappy for a few hours and then run across teh globe 5 times to 5 different people to gain less than a 10th of your level" quests.
Quests do not actually make ANYTHING more fun. At best, they trick really dumb people into thinking they aren't still just grinding mobs. The rest of us still view it as "grinding mobs"....we just get an xp bonus for talking to someone before we went.
Also, not to attack you or anything (I honestly just got a chuckle and wanted to share it)....but if you went to Tatooine (a desert planet) and expected to see anything BUT rocks and sand for miles...you perhaps expected the wrong thing. I do agree that they used WAY large maps to be free for player housing.
It is different actually, because not all quests in other mmorpgs are the simple kill ? get ? quests. SWG on the other hand only has those types of quests. Other mmorpgs actually have some quests with storylines. Don't get me wrong I used to love SWG, but it had problems. It wasn't perfect, like almost everyone claims.
Do I need to use a planet other than Tatooine as an example? Go back to any planet in SWG if you haven't quit SWG and search every planet. They are all barren. The only planet with vegetation is Naboo.
Our discussion is clearly becoming this isn't the SWG forums.
Oh, I'm aware (and even said so in the post). I didn't intend to roll into an actual SWG debate...I really just wanted to tear into the ideal that any game uses a quest system that is anything more than grind-redefined. You can name any game you want, I'll gladly show you 10 "sucky" quests for each "awesome" one you provide me.
Comments
So what I'm seeing is that Funcom and TR game that started out strong are doomed to fail because of unfinished game?
I do feel that TR is going to end up free to play.
I still don't feel that way about AOC. The reason because of patches to make it right.
Do you think that it will be the same way for Warhammer?
see, you dont understand nothing...
let me tell you why there is so much hate:
I said it before and now I say it again:
PEOPLE ARE SICK AND TIRED of all linear cookie cutter get 7 of X and bring it to Y so called "mmos".
we want what ultima online and pre-cu star wars galaxies was...
we want the ultimate sandbox style game where the players are the content and not stupid NPCs... we want aestetics, beautiness and diversity...
and most of all: an immerse open world and none instanced piece of crap like age of conan...
so dont say that you understand that its about bugs, because its not... until then I hope games like this fail
People that act like they want the best mmos are the ones that make mmos fail for three reasons.
1. They force devs listen to a minority and not the majority
2. They force devs to produce games with tons of features, which are broken by bugs
3. They destroy communities
New mmorpgs can't live up to your standards, and then you call them "cookie cutter" mmorpgs.
Give me a break man, can you please let people enjoy playing mmos. I wouldn't be surprised if you want every single mmorpg that comes out from 2008- 2020 to fail.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
My guess is that it will be the same for Warhammer. The mmo community wants mmos with lots of content, and features. Since devs have to make games in a timely manner some of these features aren't ready for release. Thus the product is called unfinished.
Maybe they should make all content open-source, and give players some free software, so whiny players can make whatever they want.
At this point I doubt there will ever be a great mmo. Mostly do to the fact that people seem to love to see mmorpgs fail. Why? Well I guess they love to be bored, or just love bashing games.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
TR looks like its in trouble I would say. Too bad because it a very fun game and would have succeeded if it had more high up content and RPG diversity. All it needed really. But sadly I don't think the devs really get that and I don't think they really are capable of it. Man if that game could borrow the ArenaNet Devs it would rock in a year. But oh well, thems the breaks.
I doubt AoC is doomed. Seems like it should have enough people who like the core gameplay and the content. Given some time the post 40 game should be OK I would think. AoC will not revolutionize anything contrary to Funcom claims. And probably will have mediocre PvP. But I think it should do OK. Like 200k subs or something. It will turn out to be a lot like AO. Have a number of decent or even good things but be a constant state of semi-poor development with a non-existent compreshenise design.
But that is not the point is it? The point of this thread is about HATE. Not the future of those games.
TR had a lot of haters. Most of them were just plain irrational because they simply did not like the game. A rational discussion by people like me who had problems with the game was virutally impossible.
AoC is different. There are haters of course, but there are also a lot of disappointed, disillusioned , or people with a number of valid complaints.
Look when people in TR came in and said the content above level 30 was really sparse. Almost no one came in and told them they were idiots. That is what happened with AoC. When people in TR said there were a lot more bugs in 30+ content you did not get the army of fanboys spouting out the Funcom party line like you did in AoC. Lastly the key features that were hyped in TR actually worked reasonably well even in the Higher level zones.
TR - control points - worked and were fun
TR- early access - straightforward and easy to use
AoC - Sieges - obviously borked
AoC - PvE city invasions - borked
AoC - Early Access offer - a number of people found it highly deceptive
AoC - post tortage not nearly as polished as Fanboys repeatedly claim
TR and AoC both had/have the typical haters. But AoC has a whole other dynamic going on as well. They more misrepresenations that come out either by Funcom or Fanboys the more of an opposite reaction will occurr.
TR simply did not have an army of fanboys and the deceptive marketing that Funcom currently does. They had normal pre-release hype and used RG's name for that. But the TR Beta changed the hype situation for TR. And they did not have broken key features, they lacked a number of things like an auction house and good crafting etc. But they did not promise those things would be key to the game and revolutionize the industry. I mean a lot of Beta Testers told them TR was not ready for release especially the crafting. But they never claimed TR crafting would revolutionize the game, it was only ever billed as a normal feature of the game like any other MMORPG.
The run up to the two games are fairly similar as far as fan reaction. Although I paid attention to the Dev statements of both games and now that AoC is out the Funcom devs put out a lot of BS that the TR devs did not. But once AoC truly saw the light day they took rather different directions because of stuff like that. And now you are seeing the result.
TR looks like its in trouble I would say. Too bad because it a very fun game and would have succeeded if it had more high up content and RPG diversity. All it needed really. But sadly I don't think the devs really get that and I don't think they really are capable of it. Man if that game could borrow the ArenaNet Devs it would rock in a year. But oh well, thems the breaks.
I doubt AoC is doomed. Seems like it should have enough people who like the core gameplay and the content. Given some time the post 40 game should be OK I would think. AoC will not revolutionize anything contrary to Funcom claims. And probably will have mediocre PvP. But I think it should do OK. Like 200k subs or something. It will turn out to be a lot like AO. Have a number of decent or even good things but be a constant state of semi-poor development with a non-existent compreshenise design.
But that is not the point is it? The point of this thread is about HATE. Not the future of those games.
TR had a lot of haters. Most of them were just plain irrational because they simply did not like the game. A rational discussion by people like me who had problems with the game was virutally impossible.
AoC is different. There are haters of course, but there are also a lot of disappointed, disillusioned , or people with a number of valid complaints.
Look when people in TR came in and said the content above level 30 was really sparse. Almost no one came in and told them they were idiots. That is what happened with AoC. When people in TR said there were a lot more bugs in 30+ content you did not get the army of fanboys spouting out the Funcom party line like you did in AoC. Lastly the key features that were hyped in TR actually worked reasonably well even in the Higher level zones.
TR - control points - worked and were fun
TR- early access - straightforward and easy to use
AoC - Sieges - obviously borked
AoC - PvE city invasions - borked
AoC - Early Access offer - a number of people found it highly deceptive
AoC - post tortage not nearly as polished as Fanboys repeatedly claim
TR and AoC both had/have the typical haters. But AoC has a whole other dynamic going on as well. They more misrepresenations that come out either by Funcom or Fanboys the more of an opposite reaction will occurr.
TR simply did not have an army of fanboys and the deceptive marketing that Funcom currently does. They had normal pre-release hype and used RG's name for that. But the TR Beta changed the hype situation for TR. And they did not have broken key features, they lacked a number of things like an auction house and good crafting etc. But they did not promise those things would be key to the game and revolutionize the industry. I mean a lot of Beta Testers told them TR was not ready for release especially the crafting. But they never claimed TR crafting would revolutionize the game, it was only ever billed as a normal feature of the game like any other MMORPG.
The run up to the two games are fairly similar as far as fan reaction. Although I paid attention to the Dev statements of both games and now that AoC is out the Funcom devs put out a lot of BS that the TR devs did not. But once AoC truly saw the light day they took rather different directions because of stuff like that. And now you are seeing the result.
True, but I think that Funcom did what they did, because they had a rough time with Anarchy Online. Anarchy Online had a disastrous launch, and they didn't want to repeat that with AoC. So basicly Funcom panicked and promised features, and really tried to hype AoC.
The good news like you said is the fact that Funcom is really starting to fix AoC, and add features to it. I personally want AoC to succeed, because I want Anarchy Online to hold up not because I like AoC.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
I don't have hate for it per se, but it is buggy, incomplete, lousy framerates, no content 50+, the promised PVP, sieges are either broken or not in the game.
Why would I want to pay to play such a game? Doesn't mean I hate it tho.
Yes, they have come out and said they will be doing 2 patches a week, that is a sign that they are listening to everyone at least. As for Warhammer, yeah, it will be the same I'm sure. There hasn't been a good MMO that has come out in years that didn't have unfinished area's.
LotRO comes to mind. And unfinished areas isn't exactly what AoC has. AoC has game breaking bugs and features that were supposed to sell the game that aren't implemented.
Darkfall Travelogues!
TR looks like its in trouble I would say. Too bad because it a very fun game and would have succeeded if it had more high up content and RPG diversity. All it needed really. But sadly I don't think the devs really get that and I don't think they really are capable of it. Man if that game could borrow the ArenaNet Devs it would rock in a year. But oh well, thems the breaks.
I doubt AoC is doomed. Seems like it should have enough people who like the core gameplay and the content. Given some time the post 40 game should be OK I would think. AoC will not revolutionize anything contrary to Funcom claims. And probably will have mediocre PvP. But I think it should do OK. Like 200k subs or something. It will turn out to be a lot like AO. Have a number of decent or even good things but be a constant state of semi-poor development with a non-existent compreshenise design.
But that is not the point is it? The point of this thread is about HATE. Not the future of those games.
TR had a lot of haters. Most of them were just plain irrational because they simply did not like the game. A rational discussion by people like me who had problems with the game was virutally impossible.
AoC is different. There are haters of course, but there are also a lot of disappointed, disillusioned , or people with a number of valid complaints.
Look when people in TR came in and said the content above level 30 was really sparse. Almost no one came in and told them they were idiots. That is what happened with AoC. When people in TR said there were a lot more bugs in 30+ content you did not get the army of fanboys spouting out the Funcom party line like you did in AoC. Lastly the key features that were hyped in TR actually worked reasonably well even in the Higher level zones.
TR - control points - worked and were fun
TR- early access - straightforward and easy to use
AoC - Sieges - obviously borked
AoC - PvE city invasions - borked
AoC - Early Access offer - a number of people found it highly deceptive
AoC - post tortage not nearly as polished as Fanboys repeatedly claim
TR and AoC both had/have the typical haters. But AoC has a whole other dynamic going on as well. They more misrepresenations that come out either by Funcom or Fanboys the more of an opposite reaction will occurr.
TR simply did not have an army of fanboys and the deceptive marketing that Funcom currently does. They had normal pre-release hype and used RG's name for that. But the TR Beta changed the hype situation for TR. And they did not have broken key features, they lacked a number of things like an auction house and good crafting etc. But they did not promise those things would be key to the game and revolutionize the industry. I mean a lot of Beta Testers told them TR was not ready for release especially the crafting. But they never claimed TR crafting would revolutionize the game, it was only ever billed as a normal feature of the game like any other MMORPG.
The run up to the two games are fairly similar as far as fan reaction. Although I paid attention to the Dev statements of both games and now that AoC is out the Funcom devs put out a lot of BS that the TR devs did not. But once AoC truly saw the light day they took rather different directions because of stuff like that. And now you are seeing the result.
True, but I think that Funcom did what they did, because they had a rough time with Anarchy Online. Anarchy Online had a disastrous launch, and they didn't want to repeat that with AoC. So basicly Funcom panicked and promised features, and really tried to hype AoC.
The good news like you said is the fact that Funcom is really starting to fix AoC, and add features to it. I personally want AoC to succeed, because I want Anarchy Online to hold up not because I like AoC.
Could be. I never paid a lot of attention to AO so its hard for me to say. In the end the reason doesn't matter much really. Fyrewall seems to blame Gaute for a lot of this type and stuff and even said AO got better about such things when he was placed on AoC. I dunno, doesn't really matter I suppose.
Talk is cheap, whiskey costs money.
Criticism /= hate. If you are enjoying the game then that is one persons opinion. Just like you are expressing that opinion others are expressing their own opinion and have every right to do so. Why is it that the fans of any game immediately cry hate when someone offers criticisms? Is it to make yourself feel better or is it a poor attempt at discrediting those with viewpoints unlike your own?
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
LotRO comes to mind. And unfinished areas isn't exactly what AoC has. AoC has game breaking bugs and features that were supposed to sell the game that aren't implemented.
If it were merely lack of content and polish at 40+. You would what happened in TR. A bunch of haters who felt vindicated by that even though for many such things are expected in a release and as long as its not too terrible its bearable especially if it gets fixed. And some set of normal people for whom that was a real issue but did not go overboard or even post about such things.
Generally what you get is some set of haters, who will seize any negative thing to say the ENTIRE game sucks.
Unfortunately for AoC it really does have major issues on some levels. I use the word major because Funcom billed these features as important over and over. If they do not work then that is a major issue. Simple as that.
Even worse the fanboys fan the flames by ignoring or excusing these things.
Its not the crime its the coverup so to speak. The fanboys would have been much better served to NOT have claimed AoC was perfect.
Unfortunately fanboys do exactly the opposite of hater and take one positive feature and claim the ENTIRE game is awesome.
So with AoC you have a perfect storm of a whole lot of Fanboys and a whole lot of misrepresentation flying the face of actual facts.
The things is the facts themselves are not really all that bad. Not like say Dark and Light. But the previous statements concerning these facts by FunCom combined with the sheer amount of fanboys and their frrustratingly stupid and misleading responses (just as frustrating as haters) mean things are doomed to go a certain way. Because even normal, not that interested in posting people will feel like its necessary to respond.
So its mostly about context. And context is actually very important.
Here is how I sum up AoC.The game is alot like real life.
From 1-20 you have alot of fun.
From 25-40 you start preparing for your future.
From 40-70 it's just a borring grind.
By the time your 80 you want to kill yourself and end the misery.
Love Hate whats the hell does it matter I personally think and I'm sure a ton disagree that it is just a matter of dividing the masses now.
Once Upon a time you had UO was alone in its field no competition.So you end up with alll of the PnP and Real RP style players getting interested in it. And as the Dev/Company you see that Video games make a lot of money.So you think to yourself Hmmm... I think we can get a lot more people to play these types of games so you start to develop to that..
Keep in mind only the geek and nerds played DnD back then it wasn't all cool and ala mode like it is now.
Then EQ comes along with its neat graphics and starts to OMG market the game. you heard about EQ everywhere from TV to viral(even though it wasn't as big then) and the gaming mags and more...
So now you get a much more main stream group playing these types of games. (not your average jock of course) but more kids and gamers per say.
few years go by and now we find our selves in the WoW age(note reference to ice age being a bad thing to happen)and they do what but say HEY EVERYONE LOOK AT OUR GAME. TO the MASSES! I mean till WoW the gaming industry was clueless to marketing it seems..
So now every joker on the planet sees it not like in the first UO day's where word of mouth was the big marketing tool.So seeing as gaming is huge and they made cool Adverts on TV(not really ) Every damn Tard on earth goes out tells mom to buy a copy and plays it.
So here over the years you now have old and new school playing the same dumbed down crap IMO. Any you get a Devision of the sects.
I know the only solution is for a AAA sandbox ffa old school game whitch give us that but it needs to be well made of course as any game should be. Once that is done I think the two sects will move to their corners and we would see a lot less of the issues people seems to have here . Not to mention allow the Devs/Companies to better monitor the game they are working on for their players and see that the money will still flow in like butter.
For the past 4 yrs the separation has been slowly happening and once the marketing sees the demand is just as big on one side of the fence as the other we will start seeing more diverse games coming out.
"The most important thing is to have the design support the players in setting their own goals in both cooperative and competitive interaction with one another." - Ironore -
Man, what is it with people on this site and sandbox mmo's? Its almost kind of sad. It reminds me of going to the bar at 21 and seeing the 36 year old guy with the jean jacket and the camero cut unable to grow up. The market has changed and the people have spoken with what matters most in commerce...money. Nobody cares who made the first or when you started playing mmo's people want something they can enjoy and escape the daily grind with. **By the way i have to add that if UO had the amount of actual subscriptions of people who claim they played it, they'd give WoW a run for their money.
Now don't get me wrong i'm not a fan of the amount of bugs, instancing in Conan but its still a good game at its core. Maybe in the long run it will grow to a truly HUGE mmo only time will tell. I just don't see however that sandbox mmo's are the answer. Everyone hails pre cu SWG as this great game...outside of the huge pvp battles and crafting that game was god awful.
Daily GRIND: Every mission had you go to a randomn hill of space bunnies and blow up the camp for 500 credits. The more money you wanted...the tougher the bunnies. How is this better than level capped areas in (i love this term) amusement park mmo's? SWG was a friggin grind. Eve (shutter) is the same except its done over time whether you are online or not. Let me think....move from area to different area in a quest based scenario? OR just sit on a randomn place for NO REASON and kill space bunnies till i get rifle III skill....which leads me to the next
Skill v. Class system: Whats the hype on this? Is it the freedom to change? If so, I can agree with it to a point. I like the talent tree system. I can be a dps, maybe a healer type or straight support depending on choices. But at the end of the day I am the class i started out as. Freedom to change is important but i'd rather spend an in game minor monetary amount and change instantly then...once again GRIND out another 200k xp so i can change from rifle to pistol skill.
Again, all i've seen in these sandbox's is one giant grind after another with no story, point or meaning. You tell me to create my own but in order to do this i have to find a large amount of people who look at this empty box and see the same vision i do. Seems like a bit of a stretch. Or I need to build the biggest, richest guild so people come find me...again...grind and time sink. The casual player is the most represented in this market, why go to work, do your things after work and then log in to "work" on a game? Seems like work, seems like not alot of fun and it seems like they're dieing out for a good reason.
Let them go my friends....let them go
I dunno man, I just dunno. I mean the sandbox fanatics crop up all the time but they seem to be greater in number in AoC.
I think its the player created cities. Any hint of player housing and they come out of the woodwork.
lol I've got to agree with you man. I remember when in SWG you would have to destroy lairs that would constantly spawn enemies. Anyone who thinks that is fun has problems
, or just loves to waste their life grinding. Quests are definitely needed in a game to make leveling easier and funner.
I think the major selling point of SWG was its extremely large world, and the player housing. I loved the housing in SWG. Also another selling point of SWG is the fact that you didn't just have to fight, you could become a musician or dancer. Taverns were a place you could just hang out.
People don't seem to relize that SWG had a large empty world so player housing was a must have. On the other hand it would be impossible to have player housing in WoW that isn't instanced, because the world is completely filled, with vegetation and everything. lol I remember running through Tatooine and all there was was desert and rock, and occasionaly I would see some houses. Or if I got lucky a large player city.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
Mainly because we are mad. AoC was supposed to be the Holy Grail of pvp, but for some reason it ended up being just another run of the mill, endless level and gear pve treadmill. Just like 99% of all mmorpgs ever made.
We were drolling in anticipation for Shadowbane 2, but after all that waiting they handed us WoW 2.
"It is in your nature to do one thing correctly; Before me, you rightfully tremble. But, fear is not what you owe me. You owe me awe." ~Francis Dolarhyde
It's an internet fact that most people do not read RED or ORANGE text.
I think I made it to Love before I stopped reading.
Mainly because we are mad. AoC was supposed to be the Holy Grail of pvp, but for some reason it ended up being just another run of the mill, endless level and gear pve treadmill. Just like 99% of all mmorpgs ever made.
We were drolling in anticipation for Shadowbane 2, but after all that waiting they handed us WoW 2.
OMUGOSH!
Someone else here has FINALLY gotten around to punching them in the gut for the same things I've been talking about when it all began! I never thought the community would ever get past "God the Lag andBug!" long enough to actually realize its another treadmill game. Hell, it has been so long since I started talking about it that I'VE even let it go to jump on them for more popular topics around here.
You, sir, get a cookie. I'm not even joking, you get a farkin cookie. I'm not alone, anymore, and it makes me smile.
lol I've got to agree with you man. I remember when in SWG you would have to destroy lairs that would constantly spawn enemies. Anyone who thinks that is fun has problems
, or just loves to waste their life grinding. Quests are definitely needed in a game to make leveling easier and funner.
I think the major selling point of SWG was its extremely large world, and the player housing. I loved the housing in SWG. Also another selling point of SWG is the fact that you didn't just have to fight, you could become a musician or dancer. Taverns were a place you could just hang out.
People don't seem to relize that SWG had a large empty world so player housing was a must have. On the other hand it would be impossible to have player housing in WoW that isn't instanced, because the world is completely filled, with vegetation and everything. lol I remember running through Tatooine and all there was was desert and rock, and occasionaly I would see some houses. Or if I got lucky a large player city.
To comment on this part.....
Killing the lairs....sucked. However, watching my avatar grow in the areas I specifically targeted once the lair was GONE.....awesome. But, here is the thing. The lairs? They were quests. Yeah, quests. What exactly makes THAT experience so different from the rest of the MMO world's "Kill X boars" quests? Its not like these other games are constantly offering tales of epic proportions here....in any given MMO, for each "Go do something AWESOME" quest you have 500 "Go do something really crappy for a few hours and then run across teh globe 5 times to 5 different people to gain less than a 10th of your level" quests.
Quests do not actually make ANYTHING more fun. At best, they trick really dumb people into thinking they aren't still just grinding mobs. The rest of us still view it as "grinding mobs"....we just get an xp bonus for talking to someone before we went.
Also, not to attack you or anything (I honestly just got a chuckle and wanted to share it)....but if you went to Tatooine (a desert planet) and expected to see anything BUT rocks and sand for miles...you perhaps expected the wrong thing. I do agree that they used WAY large maps to be free for player housing.
OMUGOSH!
Someone else here has FINALLY gotten around to punching them in the gut for the same things I've been talking about when it all began! I never thought the community would ever get past "God the Lag andBug!" long enough to actually realize its another treadmill game. Hell, it has been so long since I started talking about it that I'VE even let it go to jump on them for more popular topics around here.
You, sir, get a cookie. I'm not even joking, you get a farkin cookie. I'm not alone, anymore, and it makes me smile.
People actually enjoy the game( forums are deceiving my friend). Just because you don't enjoy a game dosen't mean everybody else hates it. That's like saying everybody hates Halo just because you hate it.
In my opinion completely positive or negative reviews of games are pathetic.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
To comment on this part.....
Killing the lairs....sucked. However, watching my avatar grow in the areas I specifically targeted once the lair was GONE.....awesome. But, here is the thing. The lairs? They were quests. Yeah, quests. What exactly makes THAT experience so different from the rest of the MMO world's "Kill X boars" quests? Its not like these other games are constantly offering tales of epic proportions here....in any given MMO, for each "Go do something AWESOME" quest you have 500 "Go do something really crappy for a few hours and then run across teh globe 5 times to 5 different people to gain less than a 10th of your level" quests.
Quests do not actually make ANYTHING more fun. At best, they trick really dumb people into thinking they aren't still just grinding mobs. The rest of us still view it as "grinding mobs"....we just get an xp bonus for talking to someone before we went.
Also, not to attack you or anything (I honestly just got a chuckle and wanted to share it)....but if you went to Tatooine (a desert planet) and expected to see anything BUT rocks and sand for miles...you perhaps expected the wrong thing. I do agree that they used WAY large maps to be free for player housing.
It is different actually, because not all quests in other mmorpgs are the simple kill ? get ? quests. SWG on the other hand only has those types of quests. Other mmorpgs actually have some quests with storylines. Don't get me wrong I used to love SWG, but it had problems. It wasn't perfect, like almost everyone claims.
Do I need to use a planet other than Tatooine as an example? Go back to any planet in SWG if you haven't quit SWG and search every planet. They are all barren. The only planet with vegetation is Naboo.
Our discussion is clearly becoming
this isn't the SWG forums.
You can't say that civilization don't advance, however, for in every war they kill you in a new way.
-Will Rogers
OMUGOSH!
Someone else here has FINALLY gotten around to punching them in the gut for the same things I've been talking about when it all began! I never thought the community would ever get past "God the Lag andBug!" long enough to actually realize its another treadmill game. Hell, it has been so long since I started talking about it that I'VE even let it go to jump on them for more popular topics around here.
You, sir, get a cookie. I'm not even joking, you get a farkin cookie. I'm not alone, anymore, and it makes me smile.
People actually enjoy the game( forums are deceiving my friend). Just because you don't enjoy a game dosen't mean everybody else hates it. That's like saying everybody hates Halo just because you hate it.
In my opinion completely positive or negative reviews of games are pathetic.
Interesting that you quoted me and then put words into my mouth. I do not recall saying ANYONE (besides myself...and even then such a thing could only be inferred from my post, as I did not actually STATE such a thing) hated the game.
I've also never given a review of the game. More so, I have not given a completely negative OPINION of the game either. In fact, most times my "opinions" are focused on the company behind the game rather than the game itself, even. If you'd like, I can classify my hate into two separate levels.
A: I hate Funcom (on principle) for ______ reasons.
B: I greatly dislike AoC for many design reasons. I also dislike how they launched the game, and the quality therein. But, and this is important, I actually defer THAT dislike back into column A as it pertains more to my hate of the company (for making such choices and failing on so many promises) than it does to my dislike of the game.
The post you quoted was me being glad that someone finally attacked AoC from a design level (which is what I did initially, as the game was openly walking down a path which removes it from being anything LIKE the PvP experience they promised for years) instead just whining about release issues (which are important, and justified things to whine about).
Bugs aren't the problem.
The problem is the design philosophy behind AoC and, let's be honest, the lack of design philosophy.
You see, AoC is the perfect example of everything that has gone wrong with MMORPGs in the past 10 years. It is extremely linear, the RPG mechanics are extremely badly thought out (if at all) and the core gameplay design is on the level "wouldn't it be nice if..."
In short, if this game succeeds it is going to drive the final nail into the coffin of everything MMORPGs originally stood for - content over fluff, dynamic persistent worlds, player freedom to choose his own way and make his own mark on the world in his own way... absolutely everything. It is the ultimate expression of shallowness of today's games - it railroads you down a pre-scripted content until you use it up and then move on.
It is an anti-MMORPG and if it succeeds it is going to seriously decrease any chance of a proper AAA MMORPG appearing anytime soon. Just like WoW's success almost obliterated any chance of non-EQlike game getting any proper funding. If AoC gets big we're looking at another 5 years of even worse games than those EQ ripoffs. Goodbye persistent, dynamic worlds with player-driven content. Hello linear "story MMORPGs" made for consoles.
And that's why I hate AoC.
/add
And I hate it because it is horribly badly designed and it covers its glaring lack of IQ by putting on a layer of glossy graphics and "revolutionary" button mashing schemes. If it succeeds the devs will get a message that they can sell any old crap if it's got enough polygons on screen. For me gameplay > graphics anytime and I can't find words harsh enough for devs who think gameplay a secondary consideration to teh awesomez gfx to put in their PR releases.
Written like a true Warhammer fan.
The design of the game is amazing. You obviously haven't even played this game because your post is so far off it's not even funny.
I do however see that you dislike even the slightest idea of this game though. Using Hate to describe a game is, umm.. beyond me..
To comment on this part.....
Killing the lairs....sucked. However, watching my avatar grow in the areas I specifically targeted once the lair was GONE.....awesome. But, here is the thing. The lairs? They were quests. Yeah, quests. What exactly makes THAT experience so different from the rest of the MMO world's "Kill X boars" quests? Its not like these other games are constantly offering tales of epic proportions here....in any given MMO, for each "Go do something AWESOME" quest you have 500 "Go do something really crappy for a few hours and then run across teh globe 5 times to 5 different people to gain less than a 10th of your level" quests.
Quests do not actually make ANYTHING more fun. At best, they trick really dumb people into thinking they aren't still just grinding mobs. The rest of us still view it as "grinding mobs"....we just get an xp bonus for talking to someone before we went.
Also, not to attack you or anything (I honestly just got a chuckle and wanted to share it)....but if you went to Tatooine (a desert planet) and expected to see anything BUT rocks and sand for miles...you perhaps expected the wrong thing. I do agree that they used WAY large maps to be free for player housing.
It is different actually, because not all quests in other mmorpgs are the simple kill ? get ? quests. SWG on the other hand only has those types of quests. Other mmorpgs actually have some quests with storylines. Don't get me wrong I used to love SWG, but it had problems. It wasn't perfect, like almost everyone claims.
Do I need to use a planet other than Tatooine as an example? Go back to any planet in SWG if you haven't quit SWG and search every planet. They are all barren. The only planet with vegetation is Naboo.
Our discussion is clearly becoming
this isn't the SWG forums.
Oh, I'm aware (and even said so in the post). I didn't intend to roll into an actual SWG debate...I really just wanted to tear into the ideal that any game uses a quest system that is anything more than grind-redefined. You can name any game you want, I'll gladly show you 10 "sucky" quests for each "awesome" one you provide me.