THIS, is how EVE is!

Arngorf · July 2008

And THIS is why us fanbois love EVE.

http://bloodeagles.com/images/LearningCurve.jpg

Since players who are used to single player games or other MMO's keep expecting something alike in EVE they face get overwhealmead by the evil world of EVE. They feel the game itself are made against them, to prevent them from getting to play the game. In order to save some souls from writing complaints on the forums (which will as usual get flamed) or wasting money on EVE, I have written a couple of lines for ya.

Before entering the world of EVE please think twice because it IS a very very rough world.. you're never completly safe. When you lose you lose big. 95% of the time you will sit on your flat butt figuring out how to fit your ship, planing attacks on your enemy etc etc... there is no instant action unless you want to die allmost instantly.

PS: This picture is a repost of a repost of a repost etc etc.. but with the laughs Ive had I felt it deserved to get reposted yet again.

Humphrie · July 2008

EVE is boring.

It has nothing to do with how hardcore it is or is not. It has nothing to do with how much of sandbox it is or is not.

It's a lot of empty space, a lot of mining, and extremely brief periods of white-knuckle violence and meaningless brutality. This is the game where psychopaths live out their fantasies, which is nice, since it probably takes a handful of them off the streets.

People who don't enjoy that sort of thing are labeled as 'carebears,' or as not being 'hardcore enough' to handle what EVE is.

"In order to save some souls from writing complaints on the forums (which will as usual get flamed) or wasting money on EVE, I have written a couple of lines for ya."

The above quote is shameless baiting. It's the good ol' "Some people aren't man enough to handle this. I, the OP, am, but there's a good chance that you, the prospective player reading this, are not. You're one of those corpses on that hopeless learning curve! You're not hardcore enough! Become one of the 10,000 people playing this game and prove me wrong!"

The hard truth? You can never really catch up in EVE - the skill training system prevents it. No matter how good you are, no matter how much you play, no matter how much wealth you acquire, you can never catch up.

And don't tell me that other MMOs are like that - they aren't. No matter how steep that cliff in WoW might seem to a neophyte, it can be climbed and conquered easily in a few months of playing. That cliff is a sheer wall in EVE, and the people who are ahead of you will always be so, unless they quit.

The people who enjoy the game the most long-term (and I'm not talking about the googly-eyed newer players who have been playing for three months and are still impressed every time they go into warp) are innevitably those who were there at launch, who formed the first corporations, and who now dominate the game. If you joined at any time after that, you can never truly catch up. That's an outrageous and extremely elitist way to build an MMO. No wonder the subscriber base is so low.

So to those of you reading this, please ignore the fanatics. This is a beautiful game with an extremely smooth engine, a well-thought-out, balanced economy and a core of almost-religiously-devoted acolytes who have been supporting it since launch. Beyond those three facts, it's an extremely unfriendly, unapproachable enigma, populated by asshats who think that the cartoon that the OP is peddling isn't just funny; it's hilarious.

TH1S GAEM R HARD 2 LERN! U NOT WELCOM H3RE. L2P OTHR GAEM.

That's great. Way to welcome newcomers to the fold.

magicalsteve · July 2008

Originally posted by Humphrie

It's a lot of empty space, a lot of mining, and extremely brief periods of white-knuckle violence and meaningless brutality.

Uh, don't they fight over territory and resources in EVE?

I would have thought it is one of the few MMOG's that doesn't have meaningless PvP.

Humphrie · July 2008

They're also insanely rich and bored, and buy a large ship for the singular intent of suicide ganking.

They do this a lot.

It's all over the EVE Online forums.

Boy, that's some meaningful PvP.

damian7 · July 2008

Originally posted by Humphrie

They're also insanely rich and bored, and buy a large ship for the singular intent of suicide ganking.
They do this a lot.
It's all over the EVE Online forums.
Boy, that's some meaningful PvP.

yeah, especially in 0.0, cuz it's not like you can take over systems and set up a huge empire and fight vast space wars over that space. nope, that's wow, where the arena duels are what determines who will be the emperor of ironforge for the next 3 days. that's where the meaningful fights come from.

see, i will *correct* fantasies that are anti-eve, just as quickly as fantasies which are pro-eve.

what other games will allow dozens of different groups to each establish their own regions of control? which can range from a single system to dozens of systems? i guess that could be compared to X number of towns in a land-based game.

not even daoc, which is about the only other game which allows you to fight for control of areas.

damian7 · July 2008

Originally posted by Humphrie

EVE is boring.
It has nothing to do with how hardcore it is or is not. It has nothing to do with how much of sandbox it is or is not.
It's a lot of empty space, a lot of mining, and extremely brief periods of white-knuckle violence and meaningless brutality. This is the game where psychopaths live out their fantasies, which is nice, since it probably takes a handful of them off the streets.
People who don't enjoy that sort of thing are labeled as 'carebears,' or as not being 'hardcore enough' to handle what EVE is.
"In order to save some souls from writing complaints on the forums (which will as usual get flamed) or wasting money on EVE, I have written a couple of lines for ya."
The above quote is shameless baiting. It's the good ol' "Some people aren't man enough to handle this. I, the OP, am, but there's a good chance that you, the prospective player reading this, are not. You're one of those corpses on that hopeless learning curve! You're not hardcore enough! Become one of the 10,000 people playing this game and prove me wrong!"
The hard truth? You can never really catch up in EVE - the skill training system prevents it. No matter how good you are, no matter how much you play, no matter how much wealth you acquire, you can never catch up.
And don't tell me that other MMOs are like that - they aren't. No matter how steep that cliff in WoW might seem to a neophyte, it can be climbed and conquered easily in a few months of playing. That cliff is a sheer wall in EVE, and the people who are ahead of you will always be so, unless they quit.
The people who enjoy the game the most long-term (and I'm not talking about the googly-eyed newer players who have been playing for three months and are still impressed every time they go into warp) are innevitably those who were there at launch, who formed the first corporations, and who now dominate the game. If you joined at any time after that, you can never truly catch up. That's an outrageous and extremely elitist way to build an MMO. No wonder the subscriber base is so low.
So to those of you reading this, please ignore the fanatics. This is a beautiful game with an extremely smooth engine, a well-thought-out, balanced economy and a core of almost-religiously-devoted acolytes who have been supporting it since launch. Beyond those three facts, it's an extremely unfriendly, unapproachable enigma, populated by asshats who think that the cartoon that the OP is peddling isn't just funny; it's hilarious.
TH1S GAEM R HARD 2 LERN! U NOT WELCOM H3RE. L2P OTHR GAEM.
That's great. Way to welcome newcomers to the fold.

goons didn't start with the game. pretty sure most of the russians didn't start with the game.

goons proved your statements wrong. sorry.

individually, yes, you're correct, very much so. as a group - notsomuch.

subscriber base is what? in the top 5 of western MMOs? not sure how that's "so low".

you make excellent points about the individual, and it's mostly true with a few caveats which tone down the meaning behind what you're saying.

but, as far as groups go, and make no mistake, eve is about 1 groups, and 2 fortitude (reds playing nonstop for a month, barely sleeping -- that is the definition of both hardcore and havingnolife). if you've got 1+2, give it just a little time and you'll be unstoppable... out the gates, with little or no training -- it's still nonstop crazy.

damian7 · July 2008

Originally posted by Humphrie
Originally posted by damian7
Originally posted by Humphrie
They're also insanely rich and bored, and buy a large ship for the singular intent of suicide ganking.
They do this a lot.
It's all over the EVE Online forums.
Boy, that's some meaningful PvP.

yeah, especially in 0.0, cuz it's not like you can take over systems and set up a huge empire and fight vast space wars over that space. nope, that's wow, where the arena duels are what determines who will be the emperor of ironforge for the next 3 days. that's where the meaningful fights come from.

see, i will *correct* fantasies that are anti-eve, just as quickly as fantasies which are pro-eve.

what other games will allow dozens of different groups to each establish their own regions of control? which can range from a single system to dozens of systems? i guess that could be compared to X number of towns in a land-based game.
not even daoc, which is about the only other game which allows you to fight for control of areas.
<Mod edit>

i'm sorry, i made the mistake of assuming that someone who is speaking of eve mechanics, actually understood whereof he spoke. my bad.
in eve, you can conquer many many space stations. by conquering said stations, or by building them, you establish various levels of "control" in the areas that you (amazingly enough) control. after holding "land" for certain amounts of time, you gain higher level of benefits for you and yours.
so, the pointless pvp in eve, allows you to control the landscape, the resources, the *good dungeons*, etc.
the pointless pvp in other mmos, allows you to kill other people, so that they can run from a GY and fight you again in a few seconds and when it's all over, you can tell people that you killed some folks.

so, since you didn't understand what you were speaking of, i hope that i have extrapolated to the point where you're quite able to comprehend the jist of what 'conquering space' is. if not, then i would kindly like to direct you to eve-online.com. seeing as you have set yourself to have an opinion of a game mechanic, you should read up on said game mechanic and give more than "blah blah it's hard mommy blah cry cry cry"... mmmkay?

damian7 · July 2008

Originally posted by magicalsteve

Originally posted by Humphrie

It's a lot of empty space, a lot of mining, and extremely brief periods of white-knuckle violence and meaningless brutality.

Uh, don't they fight over territory and resources in EVE?

I would have thought it is one of the few MMOG's that doesn't have meaningless PvP.

yes, eve is about the only MMO that allows you to conquer huge sections of the map. but, pvp is also accessible (in one form or another and not necessarily by mutual consent) pretty much everywhere in game.

Majinash · July 2008

I personally disagree with one of your points... very very much.

yes, you can never catch up to people who started, sort of. people who started had NO IDEA how important your base attributes were. I had a friend who had a horribly unbalanced char. heavy in charisma and low in memory, which caused him to suffer when it came to skill training. he was about 8million skill points ahead of me when I started. but the math showed that a few years down the line I could pass him up,

you are wrong about not being able to catch up. I'll never have as many skill points as the people who are now 40million skill points ahead of me. but I don't need that many skill points to do what I want. I have level 5 mining barge and astronomy letting me use one of the best mining ships in game. I have PE5 putting me right up there and able to compete as far as production goes. I have access to a Mammoth, the 2nd largest tech 1 indy in game.

I can't even touch a battleship. but most of my old corp mates couldn't use a hauler as big as mine. they mined I hauled. I was BETTER than them at certain aspects of the game. it took 3 geddons mining to keep up with my hauling even though they had been playing for 1year+ and i had only been going for 4 months.

skill points are NOT levels. this game does not progess in a line. other people can fly their battleships and titans but thats not what I want to do, so many of them will never catch up to me when it comes to mining/hauling. and someone who joined lets say, 3-4 months ago and only trained combat skills is already ahead of me, as I can't fly anything bigger than a cruiser (well, except the non-combat ships i've already listed).

noobs can instantly become useful in say.. combat as a tackler. the first thing you'll say is "but they'll just get killed instantly because they are a noob"... well, yes. but the 5year vet who they web/jammed is also going to die. the 5year vet loses a 450mil faction battleship, and may have to replace their clone for another 50mil. the noob loses a 400k frig and if podded, will pay another 100k for a new clone. I'd say the noob wins wouldn't you?

EVE has a crazy learning curve, its hardcore (i just lost a ship I've had for over 4 years... yesterday), and it can be boring if you can't find the fun for yourself. but its a great game to those who can enjoy it. thats why the game started small and has grown.. and grown... and it keeps growing. from 5k users online at once to well over 30k. I personally think too many people play it now, I think some areas are too crowded now, but thats just me, pirates are loving it.

But to say that designing a game with no level cap is stuck up is just silly. the only reason you can ever catch up with anyone is because there is a level cap. otherwise there will always be someone who you have no chance of catching up to (like... botters). there is no catching up in EVE, you can do whatever you want right from the start, and keep doing it for years to come, you don't catch up because you don't NEED to.

/endrant.

AmosTrask · July 2008

That learning curve looks about right.Is that my frozen corpse

Wuuduu · July 2008

Originally posted by Humphrie

...

You can never really catch up in EVE - the skill training system prevents it. No matter how good you are, no matter how much you play, no matter how much wealth you acquire, you can never catch up.

Mate... one pilot can fly just ONE Ship at same time.

Thats, where you CAN CATCH him - to fly same ship, as he can.

If hes flying Battleship, hes not using Titan skills, mining skills, etc. Hes using just part of hes skills, but never all of them - then, you can fly Battleship same as he is

You just need, to skill needed skills.

Thats all, mate. Easy as is.

AmosTrask · July 2008

why can't people get it into their heads its not about how many sp you have its where you have them?

damian7 · July 2008

Originally posted by Majinash

I personally disagree with one of your points... very very much.

yes, you can never catch up to people who started, sort of. people who started had NO IDEA how important your base attributes were. I had a friend who had a horribly unbalanced char. heavy in charisma and low in memory, which caused him to suffer when it came to skill training. he was about 8million skill points ahead of me when I started. but the math showed that a few years down the line I could pass him up,

you are wrong about not being able to catch up. I'll never have as many skill points as the people who are now 40million skill points ahead of me. but I don't need that many skill points to do what I want. I have level 5 mining barge and astronomy letting me use one of the best mining ships in game. I have PE5 putting me right up there and able to compete as far as production goes. I have access to a Mammoth, the 2nd largest tech 1 indy in game.

I can't even touch a battleship. but most of my old corp mates couldn't use a hauler as big as mine. they mined I hauled. I was BETTER than them at certain aspects of the game. it took 3 geddons mining to keep up with my hauling even though they had been playing for 1year+ and i had only been going for 4 months.

skill points are NOT levels. this game does not progess in a line. other people can fly their battleships and titans but thats not what I want to do, so many of them will never catch up to me when it comes to mining/hauling. and someone who joined lets say, 3-4 months ago and only trained combat skills is already ahead of me, as I can't fly anything bigger than a cruiser (well, except the non-combat ships i've already listed).

noobs can instantly become useful in say.. combat as a tackler. the first thing you'll say is "but they'll just get killed instantly because they are a noob"... well, yes. but the 5year vet who they web/jammed is also going to die. the 5year vet loses a 450mil faction battleship, and may have to replace their clone for another 50mil. the noob loses a 400k frig and if podded, will pay another 100k for a new clone. I'd say the noob wins wouldn't you?

EVE has a crazy learning curve, its hardcore (i just lost a ship I've had for over 4 years... yesterday), and it can be boring if you can't find the fun for yourself. but its a great game to those who can enjoy it. thats why the game started small and has grown.. and grown... and it keeps growing. from 5k users online at once to well over 30k. I personally think too many people play it now, I think some areas are too crowded now, but thats just me, pirates are loving it.

But to say that designing a game with no level cap is stuck up is just silly. the only reason you can ever catch up with anyone is because there is a level cap. otherwise there will always be someone who you have no chance of catching up to (like... botters). there is no catching up in EVE, you can do whatever you want right from the start, and keep doing it for years to come, you don't catch up because you don't NEED to.

/endrant.

in easy-mode games, you can be max level in EVERYTHING (combat, crafting, everything) in two months time, from casual play.

someone who is accustomed to being spoonfed levels, is not going to like eve's skill progression. because it doesn't allow them to be a hero, like all the other heroes that have been playing for three weeks.

think of an fps, where, if you know how to play; then, no matter what setup/class you choose right off the bat - you're playing a top of the line toon. games like wow are a watered down version of that -- you get a max toon in a few weeks. now, you go to eve, and zomgwtfbbqsauceonastick~!! i CAN'T fly the biggest ship after playing for a month? i can't craft EVERYTHING after having trained crafting for five minutes?

look at games like wow and 'city of' -- they've both had XP adjustments to where it's quicker and easier to hit max level. i'm sure there's other games that have done similar things. heck, in eve, you now start with like 3-4 months of SP, along with the prereqs for advanced learning having been reduced by a month or so of training. BUT, i still can't be a total bad ass in a battleship after a few weeks, much less a dread or titan... so zomgwtf~!! this game sucks cuz i can't do everything in the game TODAY~!!

eve is the 21st century original-uo/pre-cu-swg... it's in your face and stealing your weoman!

when you hear people go "it's too hard" <<< yeah, it's too hard, if you can't be bothered to do the tutorial to learn the basics, if you can't be bothered to join a corp like eve university (cuz they'll still tell you to do the tutorial and quit being a dumbass), and if you can't wrap your mind around simple concepts -- that you CAN'T fly the best ship in a month and you can't be the best in everything, ever. if you can't wrap your mind around a concept of 'specialization', then, you're just too 'challenged' to play a game with a skill system. it's really as simple as that.

depending on which part of the game you play, it's either bug free for you, or horribly bugged. there's serious problems with the empire building part of the game; but, if you don't engage in empire building -- it won't affect you at all, ever.

and if you're an anti-social basement dweller; then, don't get on voice, because you won't ever be a part of a "good" corp or alliance and you won't be able to server jump either -- you're stuck on the single server with everyone you've ever been an ass to... so yeah, compared to easy mode "i can do/say anything i want" games -- evil is hard as hell; because it's not created for children.

Arngorf · July 2008

Originally posted by Humphrie

The above quote is shameless baiting. It's the good ol' "Some people aren't man enough to handle this. I, the OP, am, but there's a good chance that you, the prospective player reading this, are not. You're one of those corpses on that hopeless learning curve! You're not hardcore enough! Become one of the 10,000 people playing this game and prove me wrong!"

Let me tell you why I wrote that.. I am one of those who felt the game was too hard for me, and I myself have had loads of breaks from the game because of losses.. Im a wuss like mose else would be losing half of their assets in a single fight. Its suck but its also what makes the game this great for some.. It not a matter of how great, good, cool, hardcore you are... its only a matter of which type of game you want to play..

Eschiava · July 2008

LOL! I love the OP's linked image. I took one look and said, yep! That's EVE all right!

He's right though, EVE is a game where you can lose BIG! Many people don't really plan for that too well. They take their shiny new cruiser out looking for trouble and first thing you know, they get popped!

My solution to that problem is, I won't knowing fly a ship into PvP unless I have like 3-5 in reserve, so if I lose one it's no big deal. But, since I tend to be overly careful, in addition to the 3-5 in reserve, I also have an isk reserve sufficient to build another 5 as well.

Sure, you can lose BIG! But at some point, losing isn't taht big of a deal.

f1seb · July 2008

I am currently playing this game, and I have been on and off for a little more than a year. I play it on and off because this game gets very very boring. No it's not because I'm too stupid to play this game, actually this game isn't hard at all. I have no idea why people keep refering to how hard this game is as if it was true or as if it was a good thing. Why this game gets boring? Here are my reasons:

Mining = boring as hell, which is why there are so many bots in this industry, nobody wan't to sit in front of the damn computer poiting lasers and hauling materials back and forth. It is boring as freaking hell, if you think it's exciting you live a very sheltered life. Yeah you can have a pvp encounter while you mine but 99% of the time that doesn't happen.

Mission Running = boring as hell because you get the same missions over and over and over and over. Nothing other than rewards changes. Same mission names are recycled same objectives are recycled. After you're at it for a while it gets boring fast.

Courier running for real players. A few times I've noticed this being sold as "hey it's something else to do other than the boring missions". What they don't tell you is how this works. A player wants some stuff transported from point a to boing b and they will pay you for it. Grab the contract and be on your way. Most of these contracts are like this. You will get said money say 100,000isk for delivering the goods. You need to pay collateral of 10,000,000isk in case somethign happens. And you know what? Because of the gate campers this doesn't look so good anymore, and you begin to think what idiot would take this contract and make 37 jumps for a mere 100,000isk when the risk of you losing the shipment and having to pay that 10mil collateral is far greater. The prices are ridiculous, none of them ever seem worth it.

PvP = boring as hell. I'm in a pretty strong corp. In a pretty good alliance. Here is what we did. "Hey come pvp with us, we'll have lot's of fun" I get my crap I go to said zone what do I see? 20 corpmates camping a stargate. I couldn't even get a lock on a target before it was destroyed....not fun at all. I made no money, and no further progression in the game.

What did happen is I heard them bs on TS while they were blowing up ships one by one by one and telling me of the greateness of EVE. So I decided to see what the really fun "big battles" consist of, you know between the BIG BOYS OF EVE.

Loaded up youtube and watched...............and it didn't take long to figure out how these cool massive battles unfolded. And they unfolded with LAG. Yep LAG. Something that every online game and gamer hate is embraced and loved in this one. Killing of Titans and wining battles relies on heavy lag. Players are instructed to flood systems one by one, in huge numbers forcing the lag to grow and finaly disable the other corp and blow the crap out of their prized posesions, titans, capital ships, pos's whatever.

From my first hand experiance I noticed that the majority of PVP in this game occurs in this way. I have participated in many of these gate camps, and also fallen victim to them as well. Now I understand why the elitist of this game have resorted to killing noobies in low sec. It's a challange to them, something to do to break from the daily boredom of this game. And it gives them a few laughs while the noob is cursing at them and getting pissed off.

These are my findings, these are the things I experianced first hand, so go ahead, tell me I'm wrong, tell me I'm too stupid to "get it". Tell me that the learning curve of this game is too great for my small inferior brain to comprehend. But this is the game through my eyes. I don't cry and bitch when my ship gets blown up, because most of the time I don't care, I have insurance, I have enough money to replace it, so what happens is I usually just get my ass blown off and then I talk to the people who killed me and I bs with them.......some of them are really cool guys and most of the time they only kill you once and then let you go.

This is what eve is like to me. Sure you can probably argue every single thing I rambled on in here, there are some realy gifted people on this forum that have the ability to argue both sides of the mobius strip. But just remember, those awesome and cool things that sometimes occur in eve, occur sporadicly, not 24/7. And that is why this game is very slow and very boring most of the time.

damian7 · July 2008

Originally posted by f1seb

I am currently playing this game, and I have been on and off for a little more than a year. I play it on and off because this game gets very very boring. No it's not because I'm too stupid to play this game, actually this game isn't hard at all. I have no idea why people keep refering to how hard this game is as if it was true or as if it was a good thing. Why this game gets boring? Here are my reasons:

Mining = boring as hell, which is why there are so many bots in this industry, nobody wan't to sit in front of the damn computer poiting lasers and hauling materials back and forth. It is boring as freaking hell, if you think it's exciting you live a very sheltered life. Yeah you can have a pvp encounter while you mine but 99% of the time that doesn't happen.

Mission Running = boring as hell because you get the same missions over and over and over and over. Nothing other than rewards changes. Same mission names are recycled same objectives are recycled. After you're at it for a while it gets boring fast.

Courier running for real players. A few times I've noticed this being sold as "hey it's something else to do other than the boring missions". What they don't tell you is how this works. A player wants some stuff transported from point a to boing b and they will pay you for it. Grab the contract and be on your way. Most of these contracts are like this. You will get said money say 100,000isk for delivering the goods. You need to pay collateral of 10,000,000isk in case somethign happens. And you know what? Because of the gate campers this doesn't look so good anymore, and you begin to think what idiot would take this contract and make 37 jumps for a mere 100,000isk when the risk of you losing the shipment and having to pay that 10mil collateral is far greater. The prices are ridiculous, none of them ever seem worth it.

PvP = boring as hell. I'm in a pretty strong corp. In a pretty good alliance. Here is what we did. "Hey come pvp with us, we'll have lot's of fun" I get my crap I go to said zone what do I see? 20 corpmates camping a stargate. I couldn't even get a lock on a target before it was destroyed....not fun at all. I made no money, and no further progression in the game.
What did happen is I heard them bs on TS while they were blowing up ships one by one by one and telling me of the greateness of EVE. So I decided to see what the really fun "big battles" consist of, you know between the BIG BOYS OF EVE.
Loaded up youtube and watched...............and it didn't take long to figure out how these cool massive battles unfolded. And they unfolded with LAG. Yep LAG. Something that every online game and gamer hate is embraced and loved in this one. Killing of Titans and wining battles relies on heavy lag. Players are instructed to flood systems one by one, in huge numbers forcing the lag to grow and finaly disable the other corp and blow the crap out of their prized posesions, titans, capital ships, pos's whatever.
From my first hand experiance I noticed that the majority of PVP in this game occurs in this way. I have participated in many of these gate camps, and also fallen victim to them as well. Now I understand why the elitist of this game have resorted to killing noobies in low sec. It's a challange to them, something to do to break from the daily boredom of this game. And it gives them a few laughs while the noob is cursing at them and getting pissed off.
These are my findings, these are the things I experianced first hand, so go ahead, tell me I'm wrong, tell me I'm too stupid to "get it". Tell me that the learning curve of this game is too great for my small inferior brain to comprehend. But this is the game through my eyes. I don't cry and bitch when my ship gets blown up, because most of the time I don't care, I have insurance, I have enough money to replace it, so what happens is I usually just get my ass blown off and then I talk to the people who killed me and I bs with them.......some of them are really cool guys and most of the time they only kill you once and then let you go.
This is what eve is like to me. Sure you can probably argue every single thing I rambled on in here, there are some realy gifted people on this forum that have the ability to argue both sides of the mobius strip. But just remember, those awesome and cool things that sometimes occur in eve, occur sporadicly, not 24/7. And that is why this game is very slow and very boring most of the time.

you realize lag is only the first part, next is desync. something i've pointed out here, but was told that it isn't really a big deal.

if those vets are so bored AND cool, then they should just find another game instead of picking on rookies. THAT is weakness. they're not weak, since they fly the big ships, but they are full of weakness.

normally when i go mining, it ends up in pvp. when i go missioning, someone WILL scan my butt down and it'll end up in pvp. obviously doing player courier missions thru 0.0 involves pvp. roving gangs usually don't have trouble finding gate campers. which is the "fun" pvp.

eve really is what you make of it. it's not easy. if it were easy, then you wouldn't be worried about taking a player courier mission. the big stuff - pos warfare, blob wars, etc -- is incredibly not fun and boring and broken. but a smallish roving gang CAN find fights. good scouts can ensure that rather quickly.

i've been in corps where they sat there and camped a gate. that lasted until they either understood a roving band was fun, or about an hour and i'd go find a corp that understood that i'm looking for fun, not endless boredom which serves no purpose. i don't really care for endless boredom/frustration that DOES serve a purpose.

i wouldn't call you stupid for the things you said, but honestly, thou dost protest too much.

and, for the record -- not all players are made alike. that's why some people like one thing and others dislike it. that's why some people kick ass, and others... don't.

fizzle322 · July 2008

Originally posted by Humphrie

EVE is boring.
It has nothing to do with how hardcore it is or is not. It has nothing to do with how much of sandbox it is or is not.
It's a lot of empty space, a lot of mining, and extremely brief periods of white-knuckle violence and meaningless brutality. This is the game where psychopaths live out their fantasies, which is nice, since it probably takes a handful of them off the streets.
People who don't enjoy that sort of thing are labeled as 'carebears,' or as not being 'hardcore enough' to handle what EVE is.
"In order to save some souls from writing complaints on the forums (which will as usual get flamed) or wasting money on EVE, I have written a couple of lines for ya."
The above quote is shameless baiting. It's the good ol' "Some people aren't man enough to handle this. I, the OP, am, but there's a good chance that you, the prospective player reading this, are not. You're one of those corpses on that hopeless learning curve! You're not hardcore enough! Become one of the 10,000 people playing this game and prove me wrong!"
The hard truth? You can never really catch up in EVE - the skill training system prevents it. No matter how good you are, no matter how much you play, no matter how much wealth you acquire, you can never catch up.
And don't tell me that other MMOs are like that - they aren't. No matter how steep that cliff in WoW might seem to a neophyte, it can be climbed and conquered easily in a few months of playing. That cliff is a sheer wall in EVE, and the people who are ahead of you will always be so, unless they quit.
The people who enjoy the game the most long-term (and I'm not talking about the googly-eyed newer players who have been playing for three months and are still impressed every time they go into warp) are innevitably those who were there at launch, who formed the first corporations, and who now dominate the game. If you joined at any time after that, you can never truly catch up. That's an outrageous and extremely elitist way to build an MMO. No wonder the subscriber base is so low.
So to those of you reading this, please ignore the fanatics. This is a beautiful game with an extremely smooth engine, a well-thought-out, balanced economy and a core of almost-religiously-devoted acolytes who have been supporting it since launch. Beyond those three facts, it's an extremely unfriendly, unapproachable enigma, populated by asshats who think that the cartoon that the OP is peddling isn't just funny; it's hilarious.
TH1S GAEM R HARD 2 LERN! U NOT WELCOM H3RE. L2P OTHR GAEM.
That's great. Way to welcome newcomers to the fold.

What is the whole obsession with "catching up"

Its not that type of game.

Its not about competition between individuals, its about competition between GROUPS.

It's a very European style of gaming, where you are basically a soccer hooligan, alone you can't do much, you have to run around with the mob and kick the crap out of the other mob.

Sure an extra %5 skill helps, but you'll have that eventually, you're supposed to go out in a gang and have fun from day 1.

After a few months of training everybody gets to the same point where you have really nothing left to train except the 20-30 day level 5 skills.

The game is not about waiting for skills, it's about setting a skill, forgetting about it and go join your fleet and have fun.

Eve really caters to a more mature mindset, if you're the type that stares at his XP bar after every kill you will be REALLY disappointed.

Don't stare at your skills, go out and play.

You are not the hero in Eve. You are not "the chosen one", whether you have level 4 gunner or level 5 gunnery quite frankly doesn't mean much.

In fleet combat you will be given a primary target, everybody in the fleet is shooting at that one guy to kill him fast.

So who cares if you have weapon specialization 3 or weapon specialization 4?

You think anybody is gonna notice the extra %2 damage coming from your ship?

You yourself will not notice it, all you will see is the guy's armor going down and listen for the next target.

Same with defense.

If you get called primary, theres 30 guys shooting at your ship, do you think it matters if you have %5 more shields?

Your shields are gonna drop so fast, you won't have time to say "oh schit."

So explain to me again why you want so badly to "catch up."

Ppl like you tend to buy characters, go ahead and do that, go buy a 3-4 year old character and see if it makes any difference in the way you feel.

Prepare to get disappointed when you're dying to 6 month old players.

fizzle322 · July 2008

Almost forgot "Eve is boring"

Well to each his own, not everybody likes a deep strategic game.

Some ppl just want to jump in and blow stuff up.

This isn't BF2.

But ppl who like deep strategy generally do not feel any kind of boredom from Eve.

Rob_dc84 · July 2008

eve rocks. i love jacking miners and traders with my battleship. i dont just kill to kill i tell them hey give me this much isk if not drop your stuff refuse then i blow your ship refuse to give me money for your pod then i blow your pod up. that how it works. eve is hard game mainly cuz anyone it wants to bust u upside the head can so u have to sort of pick your battle or have your wrap drive ready to go when trouble start or offer up some hard isk to buy your life and not get pod blown up.

damian7 · July 2008

Originally posted by Rob_dc84

eve rocks. i love jacking miners and traders with my battleship. i dont just kill to kill i tell them hey give me this much isk if not drop your stuff refuse then i blow your ship refuse to give me money for your pod then i blow your pod up. that how it works. eve is hard game mainly cuz anyone it wants to bust u upside the head can so u have to sort of pick your battle or have your wrap drive ready to go when trouble start or offer up some hard isk to buy your life and not get pod blown up.

now see, this guy is the definition of the 'weakness', that i'm talking about. while he seems to not be weak, since he preys on non-combatants; he is full of weaksauce.

Daedalus732 · July 2008

You almost have to play another game game in addition to EVE, because much of the time you are just waiting for a skill to finish training so you can get that next ship or piece of equipment.

Not letting multiple characters on one account to train skills at the same time was and still is a stupid move.

Unknown · July 2008

Humphrie, your post is rooted in ignorance. So many of your points are so blatantly wrong that I won't even bother picking them apart. Your post is simply to be ignored because it is wrong on so many levels.

cosy · July 2008

here are so many threads about this hope a mod will put a sticky some day

dont play eve go play your game post on your game forum
stop posting here (eve forum)
if u dont get/liked the game move on

shinobi234 · July 2008

Originally posted by Humphrie

EVE is boring.
It has nothing to do with how hardcore it is or is not. It has nothing to do with how much of sandbox it is or is not.
It's a lot of empty space, a lot of mining, and extremely brief periods of white-knuckle violence and meaningless brutality. This is the game where psychopaths live out their fantasies, which is nice, since it probably takes a handful of them off the streets.
People who don't enjoy that sort of thing are labeled as 'carebears,' or as not being 'hardcore enough' to handle what EVE is.
"In order to save some souls from writing complaints on the forums (which will as usual get flamed) or wasting money on EVE, I have written a couple of lines for ya."
The above quote is shameless baiting. It's the good ol' "Some people aren't man enough to handle this. I, the OP, am, but there's a good chance that you, the prospective player reading this, are not. You're one of those corpses on that hopeless learning curve! You're not hardcore enough! Become one of the 10,000 people playing this game and prove me wrong!"
The hard truth? You can never really catch up in EVE - the skill training system prevents it. No matter how good you are, no matter how much you play, no matter how much wealth you acquire, you can never catch up.
And don't tell me that other MMOs are like that - they aren't. No matter how steep that cliff in WoW might seem to a neophyte, it can be climbed and conquered easily in a few months of playing. That cliff is a sheer wall in EVE, and the people who are ahead of you will always be so, unless they quit.
The people who enjoy the game the most long-term (and I'm not talking about the googly-eyed newer players who have been playing for three months and are still impressed every time they go into warp) are innevitably those who were there at launch, who formed the first corporations, and who now dominate the game. If you joined at any time after that, you can never truly catch up. That's an outrageous and extremely elitist way to build an MMO. No wonder the subscriber base is so low.
So to those of you reading this, please ignore the fanatics. This is a beautiful game with an extremely smooth engine, a well-thought-out, balanced economy and a core of almost-religiously-devoted acolytes who have been supporting it since launch. Beyond those three facts, it's an extremely unfriendly, unapproachable enigma, populated by asshats who think that the cartoon that the OP is peddling isn't just funny; it's hilarious.
TH1S GAEM R HARD 2 LERN! U NOT WELCOM H3RE. L2P OTHR GAEM.
That's great. Way to welcome newcomers to the fold.

yeah i agree if you dont like eve leave eve is fun for those who wait and have the will to wait well i like it and for the guy who complaining about the skills system well not every one can play every day to lvl and say oh look i have to gt 30,0000 exp ooints until the next lvl unlike eve i like the skill training train while you away very smart

Nerf09 · July 2008

I thought of coming back, only played for a couple of months. So I looked for some real info, not the propaganda on Eve's website.

So I found a REAL description of PvP for the Empyrean Age expansion on a 3rd party review website. Looks like its the exact same thing as WOW battlegrounds. Players que up for an instance based on their ship level, then try to capture a flag. How lame.

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