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Four Classes on Hold
aranon12357
Member Posts: 9
Hey guys,
I want to comment on the two mirror archtypes that are being put on hold.
Arch 1. Melee DPS: Dwarf, Hammerer and Orc Choppa
Arch 2. Tank: Orc, Black Orc and Human Knight of the Blazing Sun.
They're not happy with the mechanics of the archtypes. I'm sure it's due to PvP balance issues. I say give them a chance. Why should they release four classes with screwed up mechanics? Let them brainstorm it and fix it. We all know 90% of us will be trying a lot of different classes upon release and there are two other classes on each side which fulfill the same role. I highly doubt if they'll scrap the the classes because of the 4 by 6 balance. Let them patch them in when they get it right.
Instead of whining, how about suggesting different types of mechanics that they might incorporate into the archtypes?
Note: Edited to reflect proper name of the Orcish Tank.
Comments
Yup good post but...
Dark Elf Blackguard*. Orcs have the Black Orc
.
Stupid evil, too much black, makes everyone confused.
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A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
Whoops! Thanks for the correction. (I'll try to edit it)
Forgot to mention that there was a hint of this coming in the following comment:
"The Choppa and the Hammerer
"We're not really talking about their mechanic right now," says Adam. They're still "under the hood", but the general class role is that of the momentum berserker-brawler. They build up fury, bounce from target to target, destroying all in their paths."
http://www.massively.com/2008/06/04/...in-a-nutshell/
spoke with a buddy of mine who used to be on the mythic team a few hours ago.
They said
"didnt you play a zerker in daoc"
my answer "yes"
"dont you remember how many nerfs you got"
my answer yes
"well there you go, it would be bad for the progressioon of the game to bring out and then nerf"
Im gonna hold off on the rest of the conversation because it involved alot of 4 letter words from me.
I have to say the mythic is the most meticulous gaming ballance team in any game I have ever played. I trust their LONG TERM decision making ability fully.
Heres the GOOD part of having the classes cut.
Now there is a REASON to choose a side. DAOC you choose your side based on playstyle... now you choose your side based on army stregnth.
Destruction has no offensive 2handed tanks! this is why Im playing order now and loading up on swordmasters in my guild... my main pvp group will be me healing 4 swordmasters with another healer.
Order has no aoe debuffer like the chaos warrior is. The chaos warrior also doubles as a anti magic tank, thus giving Destruction TWO anti magic melee in a game with more casters than melee.
make your choices on playstyle... and see you on the battlefield.
Hasani
Personally I would go for a much more diverse team than just 2 healers and 4 anti magic tanks.
In a relatively small guild it would be better to have 2 strike teams with a mixture of all 4 archtypes.
You'll need at some mitigation vs physical damage, squigherders for example will do physical damage.
Plus look at the whole picture, the passive tactics available, standard tactics which buff all allies in the locale. From what I read they are encouraging guilds to form alliances so, no low population guild need fight alone.
If you do you will end up outflanked and outnumbered, just like Butch and Sundance !
Btw, Kraiden I'm timing your response to this, if you can't come up with a sufficient counter to my retort within the next 2 hours, consider your elitist ass handed to you!
*Slams down the +5 full plate gauntlet of doom*
I do not think an ideal setup is 4 "sort-of" offensive tanks and 2 healers, but that is just my opinion. Maybe if one likes it a lot it can be made workable. With enough skill and practice, anything can be good.
The lack of ranged strength and CC will hurt, though. There are some pretty effective tactics involving massive ranged DPS that such a party would not have. Remember those Bright Wizard videos where you see them lobbing massive amounts of fire at a large area?
My ideal setup for a 6-man on Order would be:
1 Warrior Priest
1 Bright Wizard
1 Ironbreaker
1 Archmage
1 White Lion
1 "Other" (really does not matter much)
Ironbreaker guards the Warrior Priest, and they, along with the White Lion, fight up front and try to hold back the other meleers and nail the other side's healers. The war lion gets sicced on enemy healers/casters to disrupt them, and the Bright Wizard nukes from behind, preferably using AoE nukes as much as possible on idiots who cluster. The Archmage can switch between offense and healing as needed, either supplementing the Bright Wizard's damage or the Warrior Priest's healing.
The sixth person would preferably be either a Rune Priest for more healing and additional buffs, or another Bright Wizard. Really, though, it should not matter too much.
I am not a huge fan of melee DPS as it is typically less versatile than ranged DPS and more difficult to sustain and use effectively due to the shorter range. White Lions are an exception due to their pet, as pets are always useful even if used as nothing more than something to piss off casters.
I'm hoping on slayers and savage orcs! They would be a lot more interesting!
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Not on hold...they were cancelled!
wrong. They said if they could save them, they would, but for now they are out of the equation.
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Guys! I'm hopelessly lost in a mountain of mole hills! Them damn moles!
Playstyle is the exact reason that this sucks. I don't like playing female toons so WE is gone. I don't like the marauder look/mutations so that is out. So what melee DPS can I play? WH right? Well when my guild is going to play destruction how am I going to be able to pick my favorite playstyle and image?
You can't. The imbalance of playstyles is a BAD thing. I don't want to choose between what pleases me and my friends. Because bottom line is that Multiplayer games are meant for fun with your friends. So people will be forced to play a playstyle/class/race/sex that they do not want to, to play with friends. It will honestly make it a miserable experience for people.
To be quite honest classes in an RvR game are THE single most important thing. PQ's could have been cut or ToK scope cut in half and it wouldn't have been near as bad for the game as cutting 4 classes.
There are some other things but I can't talk about them yet.
Just for the record, from what i've heard and seen in videos. That even though a tank uses 1h vs 2h, they still do tank level damage, so just because 4 swordmasters use 2h, they still are doing tank damage, and a 2h melee(such as WL) will run circles around them in dps.
They will be sturdier, and with healers you will be effective, but don't think of it in daoc terms.
I almost canceled my pre-order due to this, but I am still holding hope for this because if my next mmo isnt WAR I have to hope Darkfall comes out sometime within the next millenia.
You could always play a Squig Herder, they will have decent DPS. I am sure you can specialize yourself and/or your pet to be more effective in melee combat as well.
STOP WHINING!
Me personally? I wanted to play a blackgaurd. I like their look, their mechanic, and their playstyle. I don't like the Black Orcs Mechanic and I can't say I love their look, Chosen I like the look but i don't like the mechanic/weapons. So if I want my mechanic I need to play a Dwarf and I absolutely 100% will never play a dwarf seriously EVER. I hate them. So I am basically left Classesless atm since my guild is going to be destruction. I don't like using pets unless it is fluid and doesn't take much micromanagement. I don't like playing female toons. And I don't like the marauder mutations. Magus Disc turns me off as well.
So I got Zealot, DoK, Shaman, and a sorcerer. So I HAVE to be a caster/healer if I play destruction when I wanted to be melee/damage class.
On the opposite side of the fence since I hate Dwarfs their goes 3 classes. Again removing the class mechanics that I don't like It leaves Shadow Warrior, Archmage, and Warrior priest. BW's hair just makes me hate the class.
Yes I am picky but playing a class that i enjoy is important to me. This isn't the big reason that I don't like the 4 classes being removed either so don't try and put it on me as I am just mad I lost my class. While I am mad I can see passed that look at the balance issues and the problems that others will also have with finding a class they like now.
let's play the what if game again...
what if they never told us about 24 classes... what if it was those 20 classes from day 1...
what would you have picked then? or would you have said "meh... no class fits me, i wont play war" ?
are these classes really on hold? Or are they out of the game for good? I was planning on being that Dwarf hammer class.. Hopefully they come out with the new classes sooner instead of letting them go.
50/50 it will be out for good, they might keep them by polishing or they'll just throw them away and replace.
Yes they are on hold, and perhaps will never be put in. They do not "work" with the current other set of 20 classes. Mark has been very clear about that. The other cities are on hold but WILL be put in the game. The classes are on hold and may be put in later, or replaced altogether.
Edit: A link to a thread providing ample information on what Mark has stated about the changes, just so you are clear.
www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/2134460#2134460
Honestly the Hammerer and Choppa do not surprise me being put on the back burner. Info on them has been very sketchy from Mythic. The same goes for the Blackguard. The Knight did suprise me, especially given how cool they look. Maybe they just lacked that special something.
The Hammerer specifically, I don't know, I'm not a Dwarf player in the tabletop but they never really struck me as a terribly interesting unit. Stubborn hammer weilding dwarven bodyguards, sure, but not as cool as Ironbreakers (which are probably the most common Dwarven elite infantry that you'll see on tabletop). Of course lots of people want a Slayer, and lots of others (including Mythic) have pointed out that Slayers might not work since they WANT to die. I would personally like to see a Miner class, wielding huge mining picks and using mining related maneuvers (explosives, helmets with candles, maybe tunneling somehow...).
If they added these classes even with them having issues, people would play them, found out they sucked and there would be even more hew and cry and people cancelling than this move entailed. I say good move by Mythic on being up front and not whimping out from the reality of the situation.
For those people who wanted to play these classes, imagine after spending hours developing and levelling them you found out they were crap. That would suck even more no?
Uh I did that before as well. Warlock at the start of WoW were not that stellar. I played that until some firends got me to play on their server and I played a mage. While mages were good at one point after about BWL they became fodder for just about everyone unless you could get a 1vs1 with a warrior and that NEVER happens in a BG. So yeah I hated mages with a passion. Then a year after BC came out and rolled warlock again and they were fine for awhile but after Season 3 they were just like mages...cannon fodder. Warriors, Rogues, even ret paladins could tear through me in seconds and the pet is 2-3 hit quitter.
I can honestly say that I would rather play another gimped class and keep up with my friends then not be able to play my class.
As for the other comment about how would I feel about them not announcing the classes etc. I would feel better because then the game was designed around those 20 classes and not the 24 with 4 missing that we are getting.
I played a mage, and yeah they really needed buffing. I dunno I played a lock in S3 and seemed to do pretty well in arenas and BGs. Got full 4/5 S3 with him b4 I quit (altho in 5v5 pets were sadly lacking).
I guess some people may want to play gimped classes but I'm not sure how happy they will be if they we'ren't given that info on the outset.
Hmm is game still balanced around all 24 classes? I'm sure with 20 classes it should be just as balanced? Not sure here tho, could wait til NDA lifts.
I always thought content dilution was DAoC's most profound failure too, and that was only 3 factions. Only 3 melee dps classes. WAR had six. Too much duplication of effort. Too many classes to balance. Too many factions to balance in both PvP and PvE, the most difficult challenge of all. Too much time spent on separate newbie zones, not enough on the elder game. Too many empty capital cities. Too many playthroughs required to experience the content. Too much dilution of content. Just too much.
Well I suggest its time they took them down from the official web-site.
I dont get it though? How do you have a blance with 2 races missing their 4th class?
How can you say you are NEVER going to replace or fix the class?
You cannot permanently delete these classes... I don't understand this reasoning at all.
I am super pissed becasue I wanted to play a KoTBS....
Great give Mythic a cookie for telling us the content is cut (something all devs should do anyway) ahead of time, but they need to fix this.
They can't PERMANENTLY DELETE these classes without replacing them.