Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Why Jedi will not be a Starting Profession in the NEW MMO!!! I hope!!

13»

Comments

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Member RarePosts: 5,361
    Originally posted by Draenor

    Originally posted by Flyte27

    Originally posted by Draenor

    Originally posted by Flyte27

    Originally posted by baphamet


     

    Originally posted by vajuras


    Originally posted by Manveru
     
    I think it goes with out saying that a game set in the Old Republic will include both Jedi and Sith right away. There is no lore-based justification for grinding a character to becoming a Jedi - it makes absolutely no sense in terms of the univerise, especially in the sense of how Jedi originate. The challenge, I think, is not to make playing a Jedi difficult to attain, but rather to make the other professions just as interesting and compelling to play....



     

    Did you play KOTR???

     

    and forget starting out as light / dark. You start out as neutral (alignment) like most all bioware titles. Roleplay should be making decisions dynamically not clicking on a little button and say "hey I want to be Evil sith ftw!".

     

    yep, also there is no reason why they cannot balance the other races/classes to compete with jedi/sith.



    there were non-jedi in the original KOTOR that were bad asses and could compete with jedi.

     



     

    Anyone who could cpmpete with a Jedi was very rare.  Having other classes will likely just make Jedi/Sith more average then they should be.  Also most people will be playing Jedi/Sith if the NGE is any indication so it's somewhat pointless to a few bounter hunters, a few smugglers, and then a tun of Jedi and Sith.  IMO you either have Jedi/Sith or you have the rest of the classes by themselves.  To me it's a no brainer in Star Wars to go with the Jedi/Sith IMO.



     

    I disagree, I don't think that it's pointless.

     

    The game has to provide a wide range of experiences to players, not just attacking things with force powers and a light saber...if people who could compete with jedi were rare, then make the player characters THOSE people...I mean, you are playing a game so that you can feel like you are powerful right?  You're not playing it so that you can feel like you're stormtrooper TK-421.  Make the player bounty hunters able to compete with jedi, make gunslingers dangerous foes...and remember, not all jedi were these ridiculously powerful forces of nature, just look at the battle in episode two where tons of jedi were shot down by droids...DROIDS!!  It's not as though all jedi are these super human unstopable wrecking machines like we see in Darth Revan...those types of jedi and sith are rare.



     

    There is still the issue that most people are going to play a Jedi or Sith even if there could be some balance here.  It wouldn't be much fun seeing a few of one class, but many of another running around.  I doesn't make much sense. 

    Any Jedi that were killed by Droids were likely outnumbered by a large amount.  Aside from bounty hunters I doubt there were many who could stand up to a Jedi so that leaves all the other classes out for the most part. 

    As for having variety other then having dividing the Jedi/Sith up into multiple classes for more options you will have a large assortment of crafting skills that both can learn I'm sure.  There is your variety.



     

    So you're saying that since most people will play jedi and sith that they shouldn't even bother with the other classes?  This timeline has a race known as the mandalorians in it...The mandalorians fought a war with the jedi in the Old Republic...I think that they can hold their own and would be a very attractive player class, the Mandalorian soldier or commando would appeal to a massive audience as soon as they mentioned the name "Boba Fett"  If you don't know the lore behind this, go and look it up...Basically Jango Fett was adopted by a Mandalorian and that's why he wears the armor that he does...Obviously Jango and Boba are in a different timeline, but just a mention of the name by Bioware to give players an idea of who the Mandalorians are will spark many peopel to want to play as one.

    I don't think that it's smart to limit player classes just because you assume that 90% of players will want to be jedi...I know that a majority WILL be jedi, but that doesn't mean that they should skimp out on other classes that people would like to play.

    I like the idea of having variety among sith and jedi characters, but why not have as much variety as you can while still maintaining balance?  Variety among jedi really just means lightsaber vs force wielder as far as combat classes go, and then you have sith vs light side, so that's really only four different classes of characters...an MMO these days NEEDS to have more, you can't have a AAA mmo title with only four classes.

     

    besides all of this, one of the job applications on Bioware's site indicate that I'm right here anyway...The requirements listed for the job are, among other things "knowledge of complex class balancing for a next generation AAA MMO title"

    I don't think that four classes constitutes complex class balancing.

    Jango and Boba are mandalorians.

     

  • rheinpfalzerrheinpfalzer Member UncommonPosts: 30

    if this game is even taking place in the kotor timeline ( Old republic was one of the recent patents bought up and that timeframe spans all the way up to the prequel shit trilogy.).... I think it is insane, i would even say batty to think that the only playable class is jedi in a MMORPG with the differences being a tank ,healer, blah blah and blah. I think you guys havent played kotor , or atleast with your eyes open. How many people in your group were non jedis again during the game?

    That mentality is just as unbelievable as an unlockable or a LA produced mmo without playable jedi in my honest opinion. If they by chance are stupid enough to drop a game with the only class being jedi you will find it to be just as empty as SWG in a year i can promise you that much lol.

     

    I want this game just as much as you all but i dont want to play a jedi. I rather be an officer in the republic,sith hell even mandalorian army. Just not a jedi. Sorry not that interested. You guys can be you cna drop by my hangar in coruscant and ill hire some twileks and we will bath in spice but i will be doing as a regular old fashioned human.

    The only lightsaber ill be pulling out will be for the ladies.

     

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Member RarePosts: 5,361
    Originally posted by rheinpfalzer


    if this game is even taking place in the kotor timeline ( Old republic was one of the recent patents bought up and that timeframe spans all the way up to the prequel shit trilogy.).... I think it is insane, i would even say batty to think that the only playable class is jedi in a MMORPG with the differences being a tank ,healer, blah blah and blah. I think you guys havent played kotor , or atleast with your eyes open. How many people in your group were non jedis again during the game?
    That mentality is just as unbelievable as an unlockable or a LA produced mmo without playable jedi in my honest opinion. If they by chance are stupid enough to drop a game with the only class being jedi you will find it to be just as empty as SWG in a year i can promise you that much lol.
     
    I want this game just as much as you all but i dont want to play a jedi. I rather be an officer in the republic,sith hell even mandalorian army. Just not a jedi. Sorry not that interested. You guys can be you cna drop by my hangar in coruscant and ill hire some twileks and we will bath in spice but i will be doing as a regular old fashioned human.
    The only lightsaber ill be pulling out will be for the ladies.
     



     

    My Schwarts is bigger than yours.

  • rheinpfalzerrheinpfalzer Member UncommonPosts: 30

    We will let the ents figure that out for themselves m8 

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,574
    Originally posted by rheinpfalzer


    if this game is even taking place in the kotor timeline ( Old republic was one of the recent patents bought up and that timeframe spans all the way up to the prequel shit trilogy.).... I think it is insane, i would even say batty to think that the only playable class is jedi in a MMORPG with the differences being a tank ,healer, blah blah and blah. I think you guys havent played kotor , or atleast with your eyes open. How many people in your group were non jedis again during the game?
    That mentality is just as unbelievable as an unlockable or a LA produced mmo without playable jedi in my honest opinion. If they by chance are stupid enough to drop a game with the only class being jedi you will find it to be just as empty as SWG in a year i can promise you that much lol.
     
    I want this game just as much as you all but i dont want to play a jedi. I rather be an officer in the republic,sith hell even mandalorian army. Just not a jedi. Sorry not that interested. You guys can be you cna drop by my hangar in coruscant and ill hire some twileks and we will bath in spice but i will be doing as a regular old fashioned human.
    The only lightsaber ill be pulling out will be for the ladies.

    I would have to disagree with that.  KOTOR was a single player game.  Balance wasn't important.  The main character was always a Jedi.  KOTOR is centered around the Knights of the old republic and not around the Madalorians or whatever other classes were in the game as party members.  Personally I don't think it would work for the reasons I mentioned in the past post. 

    The disparity between Jedi/Sith and every other class would be to great regardless of weather or not they are balanced (unrealistic anyway). 

    There are already classes of Jedi/Sith so Jedi would have as many classes as the rest combined. 

    The only way I can see it working is if everyone started off a normal class and then converted to Jedi/Sith at some point during the course of the game.

    As for having to use lightsabers or the force Jedi can use other weapons the the lightsaber even though it's their weapon of choice.

  • rheinpfalzerrheinpfalzer Member UncommonPosts: 30

    I can understand your thinking but i dont see it happening. You cant sell on MMO with only two factions and maybe 4-5 subclasses under each, i think you would receive more jokes than subscriptions.

     

    I would feel like i was playing CS only force infused lol plus i would have to pay for it. I think only jedi classes would seriously limit this game to the point that they should have considered it only as a singleplayer game.

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,574
    Originally posted by rheinpfalzer


    I can understand your thinking but i dont see it happening. You cant sell on MMO with only two factions and maybe 4-5 subclasses under each, i think you would receive more jokes than subscriptions.
     
    I would feel like i was playing CS only force infused lol plus i would have to pay for it. I think only jedi classes would seriously limit this game to the point that they should have considered it only as a singleplayer game.



     

    Yes, but it's not just Jedi.  It's Jedi, Sith, and many differrent classes within each.  The Jedi and Sith themselves are not the classes.  The classes are the archtypes within them.  I think there is a lot that could be done with just those two archtypes and crafting proffesions.

  • rheinpfalzerrheinpfalzer Member UncommonPosts: 30

    idk i guess we will see i dont want to fight with anyone on a game i dont know anything about =P

    hehe im still hoping that its based after ROTJ lol thats how badly in denial im in still lol

    If its all jedi then ill just concentrate on making my jedi appear as non jedi as possible lol and if there are other non force using factions such as sith, republic, mandalorians, smugglers, neutrals , or whatever then i will for sure be one of those.

  • chaintmchaintm Member UncommonPosts: 953
    Originally posted by rheinpfalzer


    I can understand your thinking but i dont see it happening. You cant sell on MMO with only two factions and maybe 4-5 subclasses under each, i think you would receive more jokes than subscriptions.
     
    I would feel like i was playing CS only force infused lol plus i would have to pay for it. I think only jedi classes would seriously limit this game to the point that they should have considered it only as a singleplayer game.



    I see your point as well, but sadly as Rhinpfalzer and others as myself have pointed out. They are going for this story driven thing hardcore to a point and the game is multiplayer with MMO aspects really call out as a KOTOR guild wars type of game. I don't think we will even see a sandbox or multi-class type of game. Knowing Bioware it will be something outside the box of your standard MMO type of thinking.

    While this will definitely alienate a player base (probably more of those stuck in WOW mode, nothing against WOW players here) they will be doing something totally new to the genre and to be honest I think this is why it is so "hush hush" to exactly what this game will be and why there are no "official videos or announcements" directly from Bioware. Get the product very close to launch then let the public know so some other company doesn't grab their concept and throw it out there half ass or take parts and add it to their exisiting IP. This really I believe is the reason we have heard nothing even thou the target date for release is 2009 and not a thing has been mentioned. Makes total sense to me from a business standpoint.

    In the end, we are all guessing what it will be like off of what little tidbits we have gotten out there. While it could be exactly what you are stating, I personally just don't see it going off of the track record and statements and small information we do know currently.

     

     

    "The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"

  • Moaky07Moaky07 Member Posts: 2,096
    Originally posted by tillamook

    Originally posted by deadeyedave

    Originally posted by Xzaro

    Originally posted by sinjin


    Kotor Online is not a MMO. It is a Online version of Kotor and has multiplayer features...

    nice one-line contradiction there. That made no sense at all. Online version = MMO.



     

    Just because the its an online version of a game doesn't mean its going to be an MMO, we dont know how the servers are going to be set up, it could have diablo 2 style servers for all we know.

     

    OMFG? Who let these people in here? either SOE employees, angry fans, or BW employees trying to cover somthing. Honestly I don't care to hear your explanation cause I know it'll be BS.



     

    Whats wrong Tilla?

    Getting all bent out of shape at BW(bioware) pertaining to  a game that isnt even officially announced yet?

    Why is it always..."You must be a SOE employee"?

    A MMO fan...or a Bioware fan....how does that correlate to being a SOE fan/apologist?

    Why are all the SWG vet fans, like you,  blowing up on this site lately anyways?

    Is the reality that this isnt going to be a sandbox upsetting you guys? I mean you didnt think they would actually commit to making another SW sandbox did ya?

    Not that I would expect it, but would be cool to get what I would call some "honest" answers from these guys.

    Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.

  • DraenorDraenor Member UncommonPosts: 7,918
    Originally posted by tkreep

    Originally posted by Draenor

    Originally posted by Flyte27

    Originally posted by Draenor

    Originally posted by Flyte27

    Originally posted by baphamet


     

    Originally posted by vajuras


    Originally posted by Manveru
     
    I think it goes with out saying that a game set in the Old Republic will include both Jedi and Sith right away. There is no lore-based justification for grinding a character to becoming a Jedi - it makes absolutely no sense in terms of the univerise, especially in the sense of how Jedi originate. The challenge, I think, is not to make playing a Jedi difficult to attain, but rather to make the other professions just as interesting and compelling to play....



     

    Did you play KOTR???

     

    and forget starting out as light / dark. You start out as neutral (alignment) like most all bioware titles. Roleplay should be making decisions dynamically not clicking on a little button and say "hey I want to be Evil sith ftw!".

     

    yep, also there is no reason why they cannot balance the other races/classes to compete with jedi/sith.



    there were non-jedi in the original KOTOR that were bad asses and could compete with jedi.

     



     

    Anyone who could cpmpete with a Jedi was very rare.  Having other classes will likely just make Jedi/Sith more average then they should be.  Also most people will be playing Jedi/Sith if the NGE is any indication so it's somewhat pointless to a few bounter hunters, a few smugglers, and then a tun of Jedi and Sith.  IMO you either have Jedi/Sith or you have the rest of the classes by themselves.  To me it's a no brainer in Star Wars to go with the Jedi/Sith IMO.



     

    I disagree, I don't think that it's pointless.

     

    The game has to provide a wide range of experiences to players, not just attacking things with force powers and a light saber...if people who could compete with jedi were rare, then make the player characters THOSE people...I mean, you are playing a game so that you can feel like you are powerful right?  You're not playing it so that you can feel like you're stormtrooper TK-421.  Make the player bounty hunters able to compete with jedi, make gunslingers dangerous foes...and remember, not all jedi were these ridiculously powerful forces of nature, just look at the battle in episode two where tons of jedi were shot down by droids...DROIDS!!  It's not as though all jedi are these super human unstopable wrecking machines like we see in Darth Revan...those types of jedi and sith are rare.



     

    There is still the issue that most people are going to play a Jedi or Sith even if there could be some balance here.  It wouldn't be much fun seeing a few of one class, but many of another running around.  I doesn't make much sense. 

    Any Jedi that were killed by Droids were likely outnumbered by a large amount.  Aside from bounty hunters I doubt there were many who could stand up to a Jedi so that leaves all the other classes out for the most part. 

    As for having variety other then having dividing the Jedi/Sith up into multiple classes for more options you will have a large assortment of crafting skills that both can learn I'm sure.  There is your variety.



     

    So you're saying that since most people will play jedi and sith that they shouldn't even bother with the other classes?  This timeline has a race known as the mandalorians in it...The mandalorians fought a war with the jedi in the Old Republic...I think that they can hold their own and would be a very attractive player class, the Mandalorian soldier or commando would appeal to a massive audience as soon as they mentioned the name "Boba Fett"  If you don't know the lore behind this, go and look it up...Basically Jango Fett was adopted by a Mandalorian and that's why he wears the armor that he does...Obviously Jango and Boba are in a different timeline, but just a mention of the name by Bioware to give players an idea of who the Mandalorians are will spark many peopel to want to play as one.

    I don't think that it's smart to limit player classes just because you assume that 90% of players will want to be jedi...I know that a majority WILL be jedi, but that doesn't mean that they should skimp out on other classes that people would like to play.

    I like the idea of having variety among sith and jedi characters, but why not have as much variety as you can while still maintaining balance?  Variety among jedi really just means lightsaber vs force wielder as far as combat classes go, and then you have sith vs light side, so that's really only four different classes of characters...an MMO these days NEEDS to have more, you can't have a AAA mmo title with only four classes.

     

    besides all of this, one of the job applications on Bioware's site indicate that I'm right here anyway...The requirements listed for the job are, among other things "knowledge of complex class balancing for a next generation AAA MMO title"

    I don't think that four classes constitutes complex class balancing.

    Jango and Boba are mandalorians.

     



     

    Actually, no, they are not.

     

    Jango was a human that was adopted  by a Mandalorian and trained in their ways...He's not a mandalorian by birth.

     

    Doesn't really matter though, it doesn't change that they would be a viable class for the game...it's just a sticking point that I always feel the need to correct, because they aren't truly Mandalorians.

    Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.

  • MarLMarL Member UncommonPosts: 606

    This is why using IP's doesnt work........evryone argues about bs lore.....

    The only cool thing about starwars was jedi so imo it should be just 2 classes jedis vs bounty hunters.

    Flame on!

    Own, Mine, Defend, Attack, 24/7

  • aleosaleos Member UncommonPosts: 1,943
    Originally posted by tpoz34


     
    The thing you need to Remember---The goal of a company that is doing an MMO or any game for that matter is to make money!!!
     
     



     

    i stoped reading after that. sorry.

  • TaniquetilTaniquetil Member Posts: 214

    I'm just beyond caring about this anymore......think I'll get some dice , invites some mates over , all dress as Jedi and make our own frickin' game ;)

  • DraenorDraenor Member UncommonPosts: 7,918
    Originally posted by Taniquetil


    I'm just beyond caring about this anymore......think I'll get some dice , invites some mates over , all dress as Jedi and make our own frickin' game ;)



     

    I bet you will

    Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.

  • CaldicotCaldicot Member UncommonPosts: 455

    What's wrong with making the Jedi a rare OP-class? Screw balance! If you are afraid of griefing there are other ways to handle that.

    If the option to become a Jedi only becomes avaliable to a lucky few who really aims to become Jedi I would probably be just as happy as a merchant or bounty-hunter or an imperial soldier (to name a few examples).

    If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan

  • DrChickenDrChicken Member Posts: 263
    Originally posted by Caldicot


    What's wrong with making the Jedi a rare OP-class? Screw balance! If you are afraid of griefing there are other ways to handle that.
    If the option to become a Jedi only becomes avaliable to a lucky few who really aims to become Jedi I would probably be just as happy as a merchant or bounty-hunter or an imperial soldier (to name a few examples).

     

    Exactly. I really enjoyed the rarity of the jedi class in SWG when the profession was first introduced. Hardly anyone even knew that they existed - I can recall the first time I saw a jedi, which was in the Coronet spaceport, and it was definitely a memorable experience. Let them have jedi, but just make sure that they are by no means easily attainable. I want to be a BH again and hunt me some force-sensitives. A good point to know is that the jedi profession pre-NGE was by no means a "god mode," I can vividly remember stalking and killing quite a few jedi in my days as a BH - you had to have actual player skill to do that, not just macro/skill mashing goodness. So, all things aside, I completely agree with the OP.

    image
  • EnowaEnowa Member Posts: 18

    I can only say this.. STOP COMPARING KOTOR3 WITH SWG. its compairing apples to oranges. the rp deves and the old schoold swg ppl and level are gone. the nge is what is now.. you either play or you don't . I hate swg. I miss the old days. kotor 3 if you read the novels and played the games you know thats all pretty much kotor is. sith, jedi, mando, bh. now what will be hot is if you can play a sith that only knows and channels force not through lightsabers. or if you can dabble and play a rogue jedi. kotor is the perfect place to play as a jedi and let your skills go crazy. plus bioware is smart enough to understand back story  (yeah I know minus the loop holes in kotor2) but they are the forefathers of rp.. and that is what alot of what swg went away from. yeah you can rp but if a game is based around pvp and instances.. their is no room for rp.. kotor will work. let us bring back the rp back in mmorpgs. only question is how will a mmorpg work on a console vs a pc.. hot keys etc.. ..

  • DraenorDraenor Member UncommonPosts: 7,918
    Originally posted by Enowa


    I can only say this.. STOP COMPARING KOTOR3 WITH SWG. its compairing apples to oranges. the rp deves and the old schoold swg ppl and level are gone. the nge is what is now.. you either play or you don't . I hate swg. I miss the old days. kotor 3 if you read the novels and played the games you know thats all pretty much kotor is. sith, jedi, mando, bh. now what will be hot is if you can play a sith that only knows and channels force not through lightsabers. or if you can dabble and play a rogue jedi. kotor is the perfect place to play as a jedi and let your skills go crazy. plus bioware is smart enough to understand back story  (yeah I know minus the loop holes in kotor2) but they are the forefathers of rp.. and that is what alot of what swg went away from. yeah you can rp but if a game is based around pvp and instances.. their is no room for rp.. kotor will work. let us bring back the rp back in mmorpgs. only question is how will a mmorpg work on a console vs a pc.. hot keys etc.. ..



     

    Luckily, Bioware didn't make KOTOR 2, and the plot holes were a result of budget deadlines needing to be met...if you look at the files in the PC version, you can watch alternative endings that actually made sense.

    Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.

Sign In or Register to comment.