Luca Art is advertising for a QA Online Tester to test MMO games for bugs by playing and running functionality tests. A requirement listed is "Strong familiarity and experience with gaming consoles, and Windows based PC's".
As I stated in another post: Will we be soon fighting/gaming with our console brethren? Time will tell I guess.
lol i wont.
heh unfortunately consoles are becoming very powerul. I dont think that PC"s will be the only system running all these MMORPG"s much longer. One day will come when I can run a console game that will be equal to my pc games and that those who i play along side with on my PC maybe be playing on an XBOX or sony playstation or whatever. (I leave out the Wii because they appear to be on an exercise tangent for the time being hehe)
Luca Art is advertising for a QA Online Tester to test MMO games for bugs by playing and running functionality tests. A requirement listed is "Strong familiarity and experience with gaming consoles, and Windows based PC's".
As I stated in another post: Will we be soon fighting/gaming with our console brethren? Time will tell I guess.
lol i wont.
heh unfortunately consoles are becoming very powerul. I dont think that PC"s will be the only system running all these MMORPG"s much longer. One day will come when I can run a console game that will be equal to my pc games and that those who i play along side with on my PC maybe be playing on an XBOX or sony playstation or whatever. (I leave out the Wii because they appear to be on an exercise tangent for the time being hehe)
currently it looks like nearly all mnmo devs want to expand to consoles. aoc and will be coming to x360 its just not sure wehn they will be finished. Champions online is also sheduled for x360. And SoE is working on DC comics game and The Agency for PC and PS3.
Anyway depending on the sales of these planned games we might see a real boom of console mmos or not. (even blizzard said in an interview that consoles are something they will consider for their next mmo)
It *is* interesting to note that Bioware began all of this right after the NGE came out.
On the other hand, LA had a chance to cancel SOE's hold over SWG when the contract came up again six months later. Not only did they renew, they also released glowing press packages about how much they liked SOE.
I guess it's possible that there was a lot of daggers being thrown back and forth between LA and SOE at the time. We'll never know for sure because no one is talking.
But I find it interesting that with a new movie coming out, SOE has no plans for an expansion. Rage of the Wookies was cranked out for the movie and Trials of Obi Wan was pushed out for the DVD sales. But Clone Wars? Nothing.
Brings out an interesting idea though - if all of the above is true, then why would SOE bring back any old servers when they know that their days are numbered?
Too bad it's only the community that really suffered.....:(
Anyone who thinks they are going to get anything close to SWG or a sand box better read this article about the MMORPG Bioware is producing: http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3155486
Games for Windows: The Official Magazine: It seems that one of the big challenges in a big multiplayer universe is that you can't really have the player shape the world like you can in a single-player game ... . James Ohlen, creative director, BioWare Austin: ...You change how your character evolves over the game, the player's personal story -- and a player's personal story can be quite epic. It can involve parts of the world that, while they're epic, exciting, and interesting, don't change the landscape of the entire world for everyone else. Smaug [from The Hobbit] is a good example. You can have a personal quest to kill an ancient red dragon; you can have a story that goes all the way through, and you can meet all these interesting characters, and eventually you end up killing the ancient red dragon. Other characters in the online world will know you killed a red dragon, but you haven't changed the world for them. And they can still -- especially when you use things like instances -- go on a quest that involves killing an ancient huge red dragon. We can change the player's personal story, and that gives players the sense they're having an impact on the game world.
From this I gather that this MMORPG will heavily rely on instancing.
Games for Windows: The Official Magazine: Another BioWare strength, aside from story, is character customization. For lots of reasons, most MMORPGs lock you into classes without a ton of flexibility, which conflicts with customization. What's your philosophy? Rich Vogel, co-studio director of product development: It's really important to have roles in an MMORPG. If you understand your role in the world, and others understand your role in the world with you, then you can get group dynamics and social behavior. [Developers] can set up interdependencies, which promote social dynamics in a game. If you don't have that, then you end up with loners ... and the world breaks down a little bit...
This tells me, this game is going to be rather class based, so there are going to be classes. When someone gets a question that paints classes negatively and answers "we think roles are important" and not "Oh, well we have a skill based advancement system" that tells me those "roles" are classes.
Here is the important one though, my friends
Games for Windows: And what of player-created content? Player-built cities, player-run businesses, that sort of thing? Rich Vogel, co-studio director of product development: There'll definitely be an economy in our game, like WoW. But is our game going to be a simulation? No. Our game is an entertainment experience. James Ohlen, creative director, BioWare Austin: If we're going to create immersive, epic stories that are believable, that really goes against having a simulation-type world. Those two things don't go together well. Gordon Walton, co-studio director, BioWare Austin: And putting the onus on players to create all the fun is ... a challenge.
Basically, NO SANDBOX FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So this blaming SOE only stuff has to stop. LA does not want a sandbox MMORPG, they want a class based, instanced, theme park.
Do you have a link for this, if so this is a sad day for us hoping for a pre CU KOTOR game. thyey are going to cater to the lowest common denominator of the gaming public!! we're screwed
Games For Windows: The Magazine officially folded with the May/June issue, unfortunately. This does not bode well for PC games if you ask me. And I saw that same article, N00b. Gave me a sinking pit in my stomach. Walton and Vogel basically just slammed Raph for his entire design, and may as well have said Blizzard made a perfect game and we have to duplicate it.
Dear Gordon and Rich: You are wrong. Instances can be quite immersion-breaking. Roles that are too well-defined (healer, tank, etc) pigeonhole players, which is also not fun. And simulations ARE fun, especially with all the mini-games you can create within them. You have learned all the WRONG lessons from your time with SWG, and you insult intelligent gamers everywhere with your answers.
You know, the interview could have been summed up much faster.
GFW: So, SWG?
Goon Crew: No, WoW.
Edit: Oh, and UltimateN00b - SOE STILL GETS THE BLAME. Almost every thread on the front page has the reason, but the fact is they built the NGE, they sold it to LA, and they implemented it. The blaming of SOE will not stop, because there is no reason to stop it.
Everyone quit your crying. The game isn't out. KOTOR WAS a class based themepark game. Also one of the best games made if you ask me. Bioware has been a rock solid company so far. Let them actually show you what they got before you QQ all over the net. If you want pre cu go play it. It's live now I just can't talk about it on these forums. PM me and I'll send you some links. Quit your damn whining already. If it sucks it sucks. Go buy something else. Sandbox unreleased MMO's to watch for is Earthrise and Fallen Earth.
I am so sick of posts like this, you're not adding anything to the discussion, infact the only thing you're doing is bringing the cololective IQ of the forum posters down. Take some of your own medicine, if you don't like what's printed don't whine about it...good grief
Anyone who thinks they are going to get anything close to SWG or a sand box better read this article about the MMORPG Bioware is producing: http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3155486
Games for Windows: The Official Magazine: It seems that one of the big challenges in a big multiplayer universe is that you can't really have the player shape the world like you can in a single-player game ... . James Ohlen, creative director, BioWare Austin: ...You change how your character evolves over the game, the player's personal story -- and a player's personal story can be quite epic. It can involve parts of the world that, while they're epic, exciting, and interesting, don't change the landscape of the entire world for everyone else. Smaug [from The Hobbit] is a good example. You can have a personal quest to kill an ancient red dragon; you can have a story that goes all the way through, and you can meet all these interesting characters, and eventually you end up killing the ancient red dragon. Other characters in the online world will know you killed a red dragon, but you haven't changed the world for them. And they can still -- especially when you use things like instances -- go on a quest that involves killing an ancient huge red dragon. We can change the player's personal story, and that gives players the sense they're having an impact on the game world.
From this I gather that this MMORPG will heavily rely on instancing.
Games for Windows: The Official Magazine: Another BioWare strength, aside from story, is character customization. For lots of reasons, most MMORPGs lock you into classes without a ton of flexibility, which conflicts with customization. What's your philosophy? Rich Vogel, co-studio director of product development: It's really important to have roles in an MMORPG. If you understand your role in the world, and others understand your role in the world with you, then you can get group dynamics and social behavior. [Developers] can set up interdependencies, which promote social dynamics in a game. If you don't have that, then you end up with loners ... and the world breaks down a little bit...
This tells me, this game is going to be rather class based, so there are going to be classes. When someone gets a question that paints classes negatively and answers "we think roles are important" and not "Oh, well we have a skill based advancement system" that tells me those "roles" are classes.
Here is the important one though, my friends
Games for Windows: And what of player-created content? Player-built cities, player-run businesses, that sort of thing? Rich Vogel, co-studio director of product development: There'll definitely be an economy in our game, like WoW. But is our game going to be a simulation? No. Our game is an entertainment experience. James Ohlen, creative director, BioWare Austin: If we're going to create immersive, epic stories that are believable, that really goes against having a simulation-type world. Those two things don't go together well. Gordon Walton, co-studio director, BioWare Austin: And putting the onus on players to create all the fun is ... a challenge.
Basically, NO SANDBOX FOR YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So this blaming SOE only stuff has to stop. LA does not want a sandbox MMORPG, they want a class based, instanced, theme park.
Do you have a link for this, if so this is a sad day for us hoping for a pre CU KOTOR game. thyey are going to cater to the lowest common denominator of the gaming public!! we're screwed
I see the person above actually included this link. Either way, his notion that the "blaming SOE stuff has to stop" is bunk.
The NGE was ALL SOE. What the next MMO is like has nothing to do with it. W already know how it went down; the players have admitted it. It came from SOE.
Everyone quit your crying. The game isn't out. KOTOR WAS a class based themepark game. Also one of the best games made if you ask me. Bioware has been a rock solid company so far. Let them actually show you what they got before you QQ all over the net. If you want pre cu go play it. It's live now I just can't talk about it on these forums. PM me and I'll send you some links. Quit your damn whining already. If it sucks it sucks. Go buy something else. Sandbox unreleased MMO's to watch for is Earthrise and Fallen Earth.
KOTOR was good because you played *THE* character in the game. Everyone wants to be the character who saves the world - which is very hard to do in an online game.
It also limited your options as far as classes go. You select a class at the start of the game, which you can never change and then later you were given a force class (choose one of three) that you once again, can never change.
So basically to make a complete conversion of KOTOR to an online game, 99% of the server would have to be NPCs helping the 1% save the galaxy.
I agree that KOTOR was a good game and the world in which it is set could be interesting, but to just convert it from one to the other would be awful.
Hopefully Bioware knows this and that's part of the reason why even after three years, the game is still almost unknown to everyone.
It's very amusing to watch the defenders of SOE trying to place the blame for the NGE on anyone but SOE. The only one's who try foist the blame for the NGE on LA are these defenders. Face the facts, the NGE was developed in house by SOE, it was SOE that convinced the Lucas Arts people that "no one wanted to be Uncle Owen or Aunt Beru, and everyone wanted to be Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader." It was SOE that forced it down the gaming public's throat and it was the players that said "up yours SOE".
What's also amusing is when people bring up SOE's incompetence, they only refer to the NGE.
SOE failed with the Star Wars franchise from the very beginning, starting with the poorly designed pre-CU game that eventually brought about the NGE change in the first place.
The first six months after release were 'hard' on the game, as it was still a beta product. Jan of the next year the game was pretty stellar and a year later had 500,000 sub numbers in an MMO market that most titles had 200,000.
The original developres 'knew' what they were doing and still are look upon as 'gods' of MMOs as they brought the whole 'social' and 'living' in the Virtual World to an MMO fro the first time. This is why previous SWG players are still so passionate, because they didn't lose a game, they lost a virtual place they lived, something no other MMO has successfully created, even WoW.
WoW wouldn't of had the success it had if it weren't for SOE continually screwing over customers. EQII they screwed customers, and SWG they were good to people up to the CU and then the new teams of the time were freaking awful, and it was evident that SOE didn't care anymore. (When the original developers jumped ship the writing was on the wall SOE was screwing over the game and it was going to get worse - hence the massive developer defectors after JTL as the next addtions to the game conflicted with the original design goals (these being the CU).
If nothing else Blizzard could see what NOT to do with an MMO and that is what they did. Of all the SWG players that left more than 70% of them still play WoW, even if not their main MMO, and even though many don't like being hand fed missions like a 5 yr old, at least WoW is fairly stable and Blizzard listens to the people playing first and foremost.
If Bioware brings their KOTOR knowledge with the 'social' and sandbox concepts to the new Star Wars, it will be the next WoW, as Bioware does care about customers to a painful level, even hurting themselves to make sure what they create is loved.
500k subs....in SWG?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Would love to see proof on that claim.
The largest North American MMO before WoW was EQ, at a rumored 450k in its heyday. So how is it SWg had more subs?
It didnt...thats how.
The rumors were 300 to 350k at launch...steadily downhill from there.
At no point was it cited that SWG was bigger than EQ. If it had surpassed EQ, the news would of been everywhere.
If I recall my numbers right this is what we had back when SWG launched till about 2004.
Worldwide I believe the biggest MMO was Lineage 1, a game that hit about a Million Players. In the U.S. it was EQ at around 450k to 500k depending on whom you hear your story from. EQ even in 2002 did sell insanely well that much I can tell ya. At the time I was working at Best Buys out here in Mesa (the storys I can tell too) and we did sell out of Everquest now and then. Granted in 2002 the basic EQ cd went for about $15 Dollars, the boxed set with everything went for about $55 I believe... I do remember we had to restock the shelfs on EQ about once a week tho.
Asheron's Call didn't do too badly, most of the time Asheron's Call along with Dark Age of Camelot sold to people who did play EQ or UO and wanted a change.
UO did well, and UO my main MMO, mostly due to me being an Old School Ultima fan, first RPG I got to play way back in the day was Ultima 4:Quest of the Avatar on my Mom's old Apple IIC. Again depending on whom you talk to UO back before Trammel came out was pulling about 100k, but like SWG word had it that UO was bleeding Subs, lost a TON after EQ came out. When Trammel came out, we had to restock the new UO boxes every other week or so. I believe UO's Player Peak was in 2003 with Age of Shadows, UO had hit about 250k Players. Same number SWG pulled after launch...
I can say this much about SWG, it did do well in it's first few weeks. The drop off point however was with Final Fantasy 11. I know Final Fantasy 11 did pull in a ton of U.S. Players. Worldwide it had a very big number as well.
Still SWG never hit half a million subs. The word before the game came out was that SWG would be the first U.S. based MMO to hit the Million Subs/Players mark. However it just never came to pass. Many of the gamers I know from both real life and UO ended up Playing for a Month then qutting or going over to Final Fantasy 11.
You know, I swear I remember an announcement early on that sub numbers hit 500K. Maybe I'm mistaken but I'd swear I remember this, and it's not likely SoE would lie is it? ; )
I can say with certainty that I remember servers filling up to capacity very quickly on launch.
It's very amusing to watch the defenders of SOE trying to place the blame for the NGE on anyone but SOE. The only one's who try foist the blame for the NGE on LA are these defenders. Face the facts, the NGE was developed in house by SOE, it was SOE that convinced the Lucas Arts people that "no one wanted to be Uncle Owen or Aunt Beru, and everyone wanted to be Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader." It was SOE that forced it down the gaming public's throat and it was the players that said "up yours SOE".
What's also amusing is when people bring up SOE's incompetence, they only refer to the NGE.
SOE failed with the Star Wars franchise from the very beginning, starting with the poorly designed pre-CU game that eventually brought about the NGE change in the first place.
The first six months after release were 'hard' on the game, as it was still a beta product. Jan of the next year the game was pretty stellar and a year later had 500,000 sub numbers in an MMO market that most titles had 200,000.
The original developres 'knew' what they were doing and still are look upon as 'gods' of MMOs as they brought the whole 'social' and 'living' in the Virtual World to an MMO fro the first time. This is why previous SWG players are still so passionate, because they didn't lose a game, they lost a virtual place they lived, something no other MMO has successfully created, even WoW.
WoW wouldn't of had the success it had if it weren't for SOE continually screwing over customers. EQII they screwed customers, and SWG they were good to people up to the CU and then the new teams of the time were freaking awful, and it was evident that SOE didn't care anymore. (When the original developers jumped ship the writing was on the wall SOE was screwing over the game and it was going to get worse - hence the massive developer defectors after JTL as the next addtions to the game conflicted with the original design goals (these being the CU).
If nothing else Blizzard could see what NOT to do with an MMO and that is what they did. Of all the SWG players that left more than 70% of them still play WoW, even if not their main MMO, and even though many don't like being hand fed missions like a 5 yr old, at least WoW is fairly stable and Blizzard listens to the people playing first and foremost.
If Bioware brings their KOTOR knowledge with the 'social' and sandbox concepts to the new Star Wars, it will be the next WoW, as Bioware does care about customers to a painful level, even hurting themselves to make sure what they create is loved.
500k subs....in SWG?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Would love to see proof on that claim.
The largest North American MMO before WoW was EQ, at a rumored 450k in its heyday. So how is it SWg had more subs?
It didnt...thats how.
The rumors were 300 to 350k at launch...steadily downhill from there.
At no point was it cited that SWG was bigger than EQ. If it had surpassed EQ, the news would of been everywhere.
If I recall my numbers right this is what we had back when SWG launched till about 2004.
Worldwide I believe the biggest MMO was Lineage 1, a game that hit about a Million Players. In the U.S. it was EQ at around 450k to 500k depending on whom you hear your story from. EQ even in 2002 did sell insanely well that much I can tell ya. At the time I was working at Best Buys out here in Mesa (the storys I can tell too) and we did sell out of Everquest now and then. Granted in 2002 the basic EQ cd went for about $15 Dollars, the boxed set with everything went for about $55 I believe... I do remember we had to restock the shelfs on EQ about once a week tho.
Asheron's Call didn't do too badly, most of the time Asheron's Call along with Dark Age of Camelot sold to people who did play EQ or UO and wanted a change.
UO did well, and UO my main MMO, mostly due to me being an Old School Ultima fan, first RPG I got to play way back in the day was Ultima 4:Quest of the Avatar on my Mom's old Apple IIC. Again depending on whom you talk to UO back before Trammel came out was pulling about 100k, but like SWG word had it that UO was bleeding Subs, lost a TON after EQ came out. When Trammel came out, we had to restock the new UO boxes every other week or so. I believe UO's Player Peak was in 2003 with Age of Shadows, UO had hit about 250k Players. Same number SWG pulled after launch...
I can say this much about SWG, it did do well in it's first few weeks. The drop off point however was with Final Fantasy 11. I know Final Fantasy 11 did pull in a ton of U.S. Players. Worldwide it had a very big number as well.
Still SWG never hit half a million subs. The word before the game came out was that SWG would be the first U.S. based MMO to hit the Million Subs/Players mark. However it just never came to pass. Many of the gamers I know from both real life and UO ended up Playing for a Month then qutting or going over to Final Fantasy 11.
Actually the word before SWG launched was that is was a flaming POS. You can go to sites like FOH, till this very day , to dig up posts on it.
That is why folks like me didnt bother to even try it until later...hoping they would have it cleaned up.
I finally broke down and bought the set that included rage of the wookie..the one that come with a Barc. Figured why not...only 30 bucks and can put it on my all access pass.
UGGGGGGGGGGGG....talk about a waste of money. Tried again with NGE...once more it sucked.
I dont subscribe to MMOs to play Sims games. Let alone the laundry list of things I have stated over the years I didnt care for.
Bottom line is that once the NDA was lifted, SWg became its own worse enemy before launch. After launch it only got worse.
There are folks who think SWG was the greatest thing since sliced bread. The problem being, most MMO players dont agree with em.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
i would be soo happy if bioware done their mmo with classes and levels just like nge was, omg would that make my day to see you all spamming the forum in an uproar
Doesn't it? Isn't it the ultimate insult to SOE and Smedley from LA by choosing a new partner? LA is saying SOE can't make a quality SWG game.
I think to be logical.. you'd have to wait for the game to release.
Then see if it say.. only tops out at 300,000 subs.. what happens to it.
Or I mean just wait and see period.
What if the new game basicly does as well as SWG did... then the blame would be on LA? Oh wait no it would still be SOE.. my bad.
So ya anyway.. can we wait and see .. what the game is..w hat its like.. how it does over the first 2 years.. then talk about it? I mean to be honest I think that would just be a tad more intellegent way to compare things.. rather than an exisiting game to something that .. doesn't exist yet or some of us would be subscribed I'm sure.
*edited* for some 2 hours sleep grammar and added some new issues to retain balance.
It's very amusing to watch the defenders of SOE trying to place the blame for the NGE on anyone but SOE. The only one's who try foist the blame for the NGE on LA are these defenders. Face the facts, the NGE was developed in house by SOE, it was SOE that convinced the Lucas Arts people that "no one wanted to be Uncle Owen or Aunt Beru, and everyone wanted to be Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader." It was SOE that forced it down the gaming public's throat and it was the players that said "up yours SOE".
What's also amusing is when people bring up SOE's incompetence, they only refer to the NGE.
SOE failed with the Star Wars franchise from the very beginning, starting with the poorly designed pre-CU game that eventually brought about the NGE change in the first place.
The first six months after release were 'hard' on the game, as it was still a beta product. Jan of the next year the game was pretty stellar and a year later had 500,000 sub numbers in an MMO market that most titles had 200,000.
The original developres 'knew' what they were doing and still are look upon as 'gods' of MMOs as they brought the whole 'social' and 'living' in the Virtual World to an MMO fro the first time. This is why previous SWG players are still so passionate, because they didn't lose a game, they lost a virtual place they lived, something no other MMO has successfully created, even WoW.
WoW wouldn't of had the success it had if it weren't for SOE continually screwing over customers. EQII they screwed customers, and SWG they were good to people up to the CU and then the new teams of the time were freaking awful, and it was evident that SOE didn't care anymore. (When the original developers jumped ship the writing was on the wall SOE was screwing over the game and it was going to get worse - hence the massive developer defectors after JTL as the next addtions to the game conflicted with the original design goals (these being the CU).
If nothing else Blizzard could see what NOT to do with an MMO and that is what they did. Of all the SWG players that left more than 70% of them still play WoW, even if not their main MMO, and even though many don't like being hand fed missions like a 5 yr old, at least WoW is fairly stable and Blizzard listens to the people playing first and foremost.
If Bioware brings their KOTOR knowledge with the 'social' and sandbox concepts to the new Star Wars, it will be the next WoW, as Bioware does care about customers to a painful level, even hurting themselves to make sure what they create is loved.
500k subs....in SWG?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Would love to see proof on that claim.
The largest North American MMO before WoW was EQ, at a rumored 450k in its heyday. So how is it SWg had more subs?
It didnt...thats how.
The rumors were 300 to 350k at launch...steadily downhill from there.
At no point was it cited that SWG was bigger than EQ. If it had surpassed EQ, the news would of been everywhere.
If I recall my numbers right this is what we had back when SWG launched till about 2004.
Worldwide I believe the biggest MMO was Lineage 1, a game that hit about a Million Players. In the U.S. it was EQ at around 450k to 500k depending on whom you hear your story from. EQ even in 2002 did sell insanely well that much I can tell ya. At the time I was working at Best Buys out here in Mesa (the storys I can tell too) and we did sell out of Everquest now and then. Granted in 2002 the basic EQ cd went for about $15 Dollars, the boxed set with everything went for about $55 I believe... I do remember we had to restock the shelfs on EQ about once a week tho.
Asheron's Call didn't do too badly, most of the time Asheron's Call along with Dark Age of Camelot sold to people who did play EQ or UO and wanted a change.
UO did well, and UO my main MMO, mostly due to me being an Old School Ultima fan, first RPG I got to play way back in the day was Ultima 4:Quest of the Avatar on my Mom's old Apple IIC. Again depending on whom you talk to UO back before Trammel came out was pulling about 100k, but like SWG word had it that UO was bleeding Subs, lost a TON after EQ came out. When Trammel came out, we had to restock the new UO boxes every other week or so. I believe UO's Player Peak was in 2003 with Age of Shadows, UO had hit about 250k Players. Same number SWG pulled after launch...
I can say this much about SWG, it did do well in it's first few weeks. The drop off point however was with Final Fantasy 11. I know Final Fantasy 11 did pull in a ton of U.S. Players. Worldwide it had a very big number as well.
Still SWG never hit half a million subs. The word before the game came out was that SWG would be the first U.S. based MMO to hit the Million Subs/Players mark. However it just never came to pass. Many of the gamers I know from both real life and UO ended up Playing for a Month then qutting or going over to Final Fantasy 11.
Actually the word before SWG launched was that is was a flaming POS. You can go to sites like FOH, till this very day , to dig up posts on it.
That is why folks like me didnt bother to even try it until later...hoping they would have it cleaned up.
I finally broke down and bought the set that included rage of the wookie..the one that come with a Barc. Figured why not...only 30 bucks and can put it on my all access pass.
UGGGGGGGGGGGG....talk about a waste of money. Tried again with NGE...once more it sucked.
I dont subscribe to MMOs to play Sims games. Let alone the laundry list of things I have stated over the years I didnt care for.
Bottom line is that once the NDA was lifted, SWg became its own worse enemy before launch. After launch it only got worse.
There are folks who think SWG was the greatest thing since sliced bread. The problem being, most MMO players dont agree with em.
See the thing is, you never played SWG pre-cu. If you bought the game with the wookie xpac, you started playing in the combat upgrade.
It was only around for like 6 months and then came the NGE. The CU brought in so much crap and took away so much of the origional game. It wasn't even the combat revamp that was talked and discussed, but a bait and switch from SOE, only not as harsh as the NGE.
The origional game had it's flaws for sure, but is still a body of work that was way way ahead of it's time.
SOE has had an EPIC fail on their hands for quite some time but having the heir apparent, KOTORO is affirmation of their failure. LA involvement nowithstanding , SOE was on the front lines of the game lied as they dropped the ball, time and time again.
Southwest flies cheaply to Los Vegas - SOE thinks to date that no one from the Kauri server is attending this years Fan Faire. Lets let them keep on thinking that.
There are folks who think SWG was the greatest thing since sliced bread. The problem being, most MMO players dont agree with em.
There are obviously more people who thought the old game was good than think the NGE is good. The empty servers are a pretty good indication of that.
Hey Hubert
Quit putting words in my mouth. I have never said NGE was good, or that I play it.
Thanks for trying though.
There were more folks who didnt play Pre-whatever than did....that is the number you should be looking at. I would hope pre-whatever was better than Benny Hill-NGE....you cant really do much worse than a game that was slapped together over anothers frame-work...in a short time frame no less.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Comments
Might be more true than that
Luca Art is advertising for a QA Online Tester to test MMO games for bugs by playing and running functionality tests. A requirement listed is "Strong familiarity and experience with gaming consoles, and Windows based PC's".
As I stated in another post: Will we be soon fighting/gaming with our console brethren? Time will tell I guess.
lol i wont.
heh unfortunately consoles are becoming very powerul. I dont think that PC"s will be the only system running all these MMORPG"s much longer. One day will come when I can run a console game that will be equal to my pc games and that those who i play along side with on my PC maybe be playing on an XBOX or sony playstation or whatever. (I leave out the Wii because they appear to be on an exercise tangent for the time being hehe)
Might be more true than that
Luca Art is advertising for a QA Online Tester to test MMO games for bugs by playing and running functionality tests. A requirement listed is "Strong familiarity and experience with gaming consoles, and Windows based PC's".
As I stated in another post: Will we be soon fighting/gaming with our console brethren? Time will tell I guess.
lol i wont.
heh unfortunately consoles are becoming very powerul. I dont think that PC"s will be the only system running all these MMORPG"s much longer. One day will come when I can run a console game that will be equal to my pc games and that those who i play along side with on my PC maybe be playing on an XBOX or sony playstation or whatever. (I leave out the Wii because they appear to be on an exercise tangent for the time being hehe)
currently it looks like nearly all mnmo devs want to expand to consoles. aoc and will be coming to x360 its just not sure wehn they will be finished. Champions online is also sheduled for x360. And SoE is working on DC comics game and The Agency for PC and PS3.
Anyway depending on the sales of these planned games we might see a real boom of console mmos or not. (even blizzard said in an interview that consoles are something they will consider for their next mmo)
It *is* interesting to note that Bioware began all of this right after the NGE came out.
On the other hand, LA had a chance to cancel SOE's hold over SWG when the contract came up again six months later. Not only did they renew, they also released glowing press packages about how much they liked SOE.
I guess it's possible that there was a lot of daggers being thrown back and forth between LA and SOE at the time. We'll never know for sure because no one is talking.
But I find it interesting that with a new movie coming out, SOE has no plans for an expansion. Rage of the Wookies was cranked out for the movie and Trials of Obi Wan was pushed out for the DVD sales. But Clone Wars? Nothing.
Brings out an interesting idea though - if all of the above is true, then why would SOE bring back any old servers when they know that their days are numbered?
Too bad it's only the community that really suffered.....:(
Do you have a link for this, if so this is a sad day for us hoping for a pre CU KOTOR game. thyey are going to cater to the lowest common denominator of the gaming public!! we're screwed
Games For Windows: The Magazine officially folded with the May/June issue, unfortunately. This does not bode well for PC games if you ask me. And I saw that same article, N00b. Gave me a sinking pit in my stomach. Walton and Vogel basically just slammed Raph for his entire design, and may as well have said Blizzard made a perfect game and we have to duplicate it.
Dear Gordon and Rich: You are wrong. Instances can be quite immersion-breaking. Roles that are too well-defined (healer, tank, etc) pigeonhole players, which is also not fun. And simulations ARE fun, especially with all the mini-games you can create within them. You have learned all the WRONG lessons from your time with SWG, and you insult intelligent gamers everywhere with your answers.
You know, the interview could have been summed up much faster.
GFW: So, SWG?
Goon Crew: No, WoW.
Edit: Oh, and UltimateN00b - SOE STILL GETS THE BLAME. Almost every thread on the front page has the reason, but the fact is they built the NGE, they sold it to LA, and they implemented it. The blaming of SOE will not stop, because there is no reason to stop it.
There's a sucker born every minute. - P.T. Barnum
Everyone quit your crying. The game isn't out.
KOTOR WAS a class based themepark game. Also one of the best games made if you ask me.
Bioware has been a rock solid company so far. Let them actually show you what they got before you QQ all over the net.
If you want pre cu go play it. It's live now I just can't talk about it on these forums. PM me and I'll send you some links.
Quit your damn whining already.
If it sucks it sucks. Go buy something else.
Sandbox unreleased MMO's to watch for is Earthrise and Fallen Earth.
SHOHADAKU
I am so sick of posts like this, you're not adding anything to the discussion, infact the only thing you're doing is bringing the cololective IQ of the forum posters down. Take some of your own medicine, if you don't like what's printed don't whine about it...good grief
Found a link where this stuff is referenced:
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3155486
I see the person above actually included this link. Either way, his notion that the "blaming SOE stuff has to stop" is bunk.
The NGE was ALL SOE. What the next MMO is like has nothing to do with it. W already know how it went down; the players have admitted it. It came from SOE.
fishermage.blogspot.com
KOTOR was good because you played *THE* character in the game. Everyone wants to be the character who saves the world - which is very hard to do in an online game.
It also limited your options as far as classes go. You select a class at the start of the game, which you can never change and then later you were given a force class (choose one of three) that you once again, can never change.
So basically to make a complete conversion of KOTOR to an online game, 99% of the server would have to be NPCs helping the 1% save the galaxy.
I agree that KOTOR was a good game and the world in which it is set could be interesting, but to just convert it from one to the other would be awful.
Hopefully Bioware knows this and that's part of the reason why even after three years, the game is still almost unknown to everyone.
they maybe stupid but they are not crazy.......
leting $OE code and run the next swg RPG would be like giving bin Ladin a fueled 747.
What's also amusing is when people bring up SOE's incompetence, they only refer to the NGE.
SOE failed with the Star Wars franchise from the very beginning, starting with the poorly designed pre-CU game that eventually brought about the NGE change in the first place.
The first six months after release were 'hard' on the game, as it was still a beta product. Jan of the next year the game was pretty stellar and a year later had 500,000 sub numbers in an MMO market that most titles had 200,000.
The original developres 'knew' what they were doing and still are look upon as 'gods' of MMOs as they brought the whole 'social' and 'living' in the Virtual World to an MMO fro the first time. This is why previous SWG players are still so passionate, because they didn't lose a game, they lost a virtual place they lived, something no other MMO has successfully created, even WoW.
WoW wouldn't of had the success it had if it weren't for SOE continually screwing over customers. EQII they screwed customers, and SWG they were good to people up to the CU and then the new teams of the time were freaking awful, and it was evident that SOE didn't care anymore. (When the original developers jumped ship the writing was on the wall SOE was screwing over the game and it was going to get worse - hence the massive developer defectors after JTL as the next addtions to the game conflicted with the original design goals (these being the CU).
If nothing else Blizzard could see what NOT to do with an MMO and that is what they did. Of all the SWG players that left more than 70% of them still play WoW, even if not their main MMO, and even though many don't like being hand fed missions like a 5 yr old, at least WoW is fairly stable and Blizzard listens to the people playing first and foremost.
If Bioware brings their KOTOR knowledge with the 'social' and sandbox concepts to the new Star Wars, it will be the next WoW, as Bioware does care about customers to a painful level, even hurting themselves to make sure what they create is loved.
500k subs....in SWG?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Would love to see proof on that claim.
The largest North American MMO before WoW was EQ, at a rumored 450k in its heyday. So how is it SWg had more subs?
It didnt...thats how.
The rumors were 300 to 350k at launch...steadily downhill from there.
At no point was it cited that SWG was bigger than EQ. If it had surpassed EQ, the news would of been everywhere.
If I recall my numbers right this is what we had back when SWG launched till about 2004.
Worldwide I believe the biggest MMO was Lineage 1, a game that hit about a Million Players. In the U.S. it was EQ at around 450k to 500k depending on whom you hear your story from. EQ even in 2002 did sell insanely well that much I can tell ya. At the time I was working at Best Buys out here in Mesa (the storys I can tell too) and we did sell out of Everquest now and then. Granted in 2002 the basic EQ cd went for about $15 Dollars, the boxed set with everything went for about $55 I believe... I do remember we had to restock the shelfs on EQ about once a week tho.
Asheron's Call didn't do too badly, most of the time Asheron's Call along with Dark Age of Camelot sold to people who did play EQ or UO and wanted a change.
UO did well, and UO my main MMO, mostly due to me being an Old School Ultima fan, first RPG I got to play way back in the day was Ultima 4:Quest of the Avatar on my Mom's old Apple IIC. Again depending on whom you talk to UO back before Trammel came out was pulling about 100k, but like SWG word had it that UO was bleeding Subs, lost a TON after EQ came out. When Trammel came out, we had to restock the new UO boxes every other week or so. I believe UO's Player Peak was in 2003 with Age of Shadows, UO had hit about 250k Players. Same number SWG pulled after launch...
I can say this much about SWG, it did do well in it's first few weeks. The drop off point however was with Final Fantasy 11. I know Final Fantasy 11 did pull in a ton of U.S. Players. Worldwide it had a very big number as well.
Still SWG never hit half a million subs. The word before the game came out was that SWG would be the first U.S. based MMO to hit the Million Subs/Players mark. However it just never came to pass. Many of the gamers I know from both real life and UO ended up Playing for a Month then qutting or going over to Final Fantasy 11.
You know, I swear I remember an announcement early on that sub numbers hit 500K. Maybe I'm mistaken but I'd swear I remember this, and it's not likely SoE would lie is it? ; )
I can say with certainty that I remember servers filling up to capacity very quickly on launch.
Everquest hit the 550k mark and SWG hit around 300k. I seem to recall a press story about it hitting 330k subs, but I could be wrong.
I believe the game could have hit 1 million if the SWG team was given enough time to finish the game instead of releasing it in the state it was.
What's also amusing is when people bring up SOE's incompetence, they only refer to the NGE.
SOE failed with the Star Wars franchise from the very beginning, starting with the poorly designed pre-CU game that eventually brought about the NGE change in the first place.
The first six months after release were 'hard' on the game, as it was still a beta product. Jan of the next year the game was pretty stellar and a year later had 500,000 sub numbers in an MMO market that most titles had 200,000.
The original developres 'knew' what they were doing and still are look upon as 'gods' of MMOs as they brought the whole 'social' and 'living' in the Virtual World to an MMO fro the first time. This is why previous SWG players are still so passionate, because they didn't lose a game, they lost a virtual place they lived, something no other MMO has successfully created, even WoW.
WoW wouldn't of had the success it had if it weren't for SOE continually screwing over customers. EQII they screwed customers, and SWG they were good to people up to the CU and then the new teams of the time were freaking awful, and it was evident that SOE didn't care anymore. (When the original developers jumped ship the writing was on the wall SOE was screwing over the game and it was going to get worse - hence the massive developer defectors after JTL as the next addtions to the game conflicted with the original design goals (these being the CU).
If nothing else Blizzard could see what NOT to do with an MMO and that is what they did. Of all the SWG players that left more than 70% of them still play WoW, even if not their main MMO, and even though many don't like being hand fed missions like a 5 yr old, at least WoW is fairly stable and Blizzard listens to the people playing first and foremost.
If Bioware brings their KOTOR knowledge with the 'social' and sandbox concepts to the new Star Wars, it will be the next WoW, as Bioware does care about customers to a painful level, even hurting themselves to make sure what they create is loved.
500k subs....in SWG?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Would love to see proof on that claim.
The largest North American MMO before WoW was EQ, at a rumored 450k in its heyday. So how is it SWg had more subs?
It didnt...thats how.
The rumors were 300 to 350k at launch...steadily downhill from there.
At no point was it cited that SWG was bigger than EQ. If it had surpassed EQ, the news would of been everywhere.
If I recall my numbers right this is what we had back when SWG launched till about 2004.
Worldwide I believe the biggest MMO was Lineage 1, a game that hit about a Million Players. In the U.S. it was EQ at around 450k to 500k depending on whom you hear your story from. EQ even in 2002 did sell insanely well that much I can tell ya. At the time I was working at Best Buys out here in Mesa (the storys I can tell too) and we did sell out of Everquest now and then. Granted in 2002 the basic EQ cd went for about $15 Dollars, the boxed set with everything went for about $55 I believe... I do remember we had to restock the shelfs on EQ about once a week tho.
Asheron's Call didn't do too badly, most of the time Asheron's Call along with Dark Age of Camelot sold to people who did play EQ or UO and wanted a change.
UO did well, and UO my main MMO, mostly due to me being an Old School Ultima fan, first RPG I got to play way back in the day was Ultima 4:Quest of the Avatar on my Mom's old Apple IIC. Again depending on whom you talk to UO back before Trammel came out was pulling about 100k, but like SWG word had it that UO was bleeding Subs, lost a TON after EQ came out. When Trammel came out, we had to restock the new UO boxes every other week or so. I believe UO's Player Peak was in 2003 with Age of Shadows, UO had hit about 250k Players. Same number SWG pulled after launch...
I can say this much about SWG, it did do well in it's first few weeks. The drop off point however was with Final Fantasy 11. I know Final Fantasy 11 did pull in a ton of U.S. Players. Worldwide it had a very big number as well.
Still SWG never hit half a million subs. The word before the game came out was that SWG would be the first U.S. based MMO to hit the Million Subs/Players mark. However it just never came to pass. Many of the gamers I know from both real life and UO ended up Playing for a Month then qutting or going over to Final Fantasy 11.
Actually the word before SWG launched was that is was a flaming POS. You can go to sites like FOH, till this very day , to dig up posts on it.
That is why folks like me didnt bother to even try it until later...hoping they would have it cleaned up.
I finally broke down and bought the set that included rage of the wookie..the one that come with a Barc. Figured why not...only 30 bucks and can put it on my all access pass.
UGGGGGGGGGGGG....talk about a waste of money. Tried again with NGE...once more it sucked.
I dont subscribe to MMOs to play Sims games. Let alone the laundry list of things I have stated over the years I didnt care for.
Bottom line is that once the NDA was lifted, SWg became its own worse enemy before launch. After launch it only got worse.
There are folks who think SWG was the greatest thing since sliced bread. The problem being, most MMO players dont agree with em.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
There are obviously more people who thought the old game was good than think the NGE is good. The empty servers are a pretty good indication of that.
I think to be logical.. you'd have to wait for the game to release.
Then see if it say.. only tops out at 300,000 subs.. what happens to it.
Or I mean just wait and see period.
What if the new game basicly does as well as SWG did... then the blame would be on LA? Oh wait no it would still be SOE.. my bad.
So ya anyway.. can we wait and see .. what the game is..w hat its like.. how it does over the first 2 years.. then talk about it? I mean to be honest I think that would just be a tad more intellegent way to compare things.. rather than an exisiting game to something that .. doesn't exist yet or some of us would be subscribed I'm sure.
*edited* for some 2 hours sleep grammar and added some new issues to retain balance.
What's also amusing is when people bring up SOE's incompetence, they only refer to the NGE.
SOE failed with the Star Wars franchise from the very beginning, starting with the poorly designed pre-CU game that eventually brought about the NGE change in the first place.
The first six months after release were 'hard' on the game, as it was still a beta product. Jan of the next year the game was pretty stellar and a year later had 500,000 sub numbers in an MMO market that most titles had 200,000.
The original developres 'knew' what they were doing and still are look upon as 'gods' of MMOs as they brought the whole 'social' and 'living' in the Virtual World to an MMO fro the first time. This is why previous SWG players are still so passionate, because they didn't lose a game, they lost a virtual place they lived, something no other MMO has successfully created, even WoW.
WoW wouldn't of had the success it had if it weren't for SOE continually screwing over customers. EQII they screwed customers, and SWG they were good to people up to the CU and then the new teams of the time were freaking awful, and it was evident that SOE didn't care anymore. (When the original developers jumped ship the writing was on the wall SOE was screwing over the game and it was going to get worse - hence the massive developer defectors after JTL as the next addtions to the game conflicted with the original design goals (these being the CU).
If nothing else Blizzard could see what NOT to do with an MMO and that is what they did. Of all the SWG players that left more than 70% of them still play WoW, even if not their main MMO, and even though many don't like being hand fed missions like a 5 yr old, at least WoW is fairly stable and Blizzard listens to the people playing first and foremost.
If Bioware brings their KOTOR knowledge with the 'social' and sandbox concepts to the new Star Wars, it will be the next WoW, as Bioware does care about customers to a painful level, even hurting themselves to make sure what they create is loved.
500k subs....in SWG?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Would love to see proof on that claim.
The largest North American MMO before WoW was EQ, at a rumored 450k in its heyday. So how is it SWg had more subs?
It didnt...thats how.
The rumors were 300 to 350k at launch...steadily downhill from there.
At no point was it cited that SWG was bigger than EQ. If it had surpassed EQ, the news would of been everywhere.
If I recall my numbers right this is what we had back when SWG launched till about 2004.
Worldwide I believe the biggest MMO was Lineage 1, a game that hit about a Million Players. In the U.S. it was EQ at around 450k to 500k depending on whom you hear your story from. EQ even in 2002 did sell insanely well that much I can tell ya. At the time I was working at Best Buys out here in Mesa (the storys I can tell too) and we did sell out of Everquest now and then. Granted in 2002 the basic EQ cd went for about $15 Dollars, the boxed set with everything went for about $55 I believe... I do remember we had to restock the shelfs on EQ about once a week tho.
Asheron's Call didn't do too badly, most of the time Asheron's Call along with Dark Age of Camelot sold to people who did play EQ or UO and wanted a change.
UO did well, and UO my main MMO, mostly due to me being an Old School Ultima fan, first RPG I got to play way back in the day was Ultima 4:Quest of the Avatar on my Mom's old Apple IIC. Again depending on whom you talk to UO back before Trammel came out was pulling about 100k, but like SWG word had it that UO was bleeding Subs, lost a TON after EQ came out. When Trammel came out, we had to restock the new UO boxes every other week or so. I believe UO's Player Peak was in 2003 with Age of Shadows, UO had hit about 250k Players. Same number SWG pulled after launch...
I can say this much about SWG, it did do well in it's first few weeks. The drop off point however was with Final Fantasy 11. I know Final Fantasy 11 did pull in a ton of U.S. Players. Worldwide it had a very big number as well.
Still SWG never hit half a million subs. The word before the game came out was that SWG would be the first U.S. based MMO to hit the Million Subs/Players mark. However it just never came to pass. Many of the gamers I know from both real life and UO ended up Playing for a Month then qutting or going over to Final Fantasy 11.
Actually the word before SWG launched was that is was a flaming POS. You can go to sites like FOH, till this very day , to dig up posts on it.
That is why folks like me didnt bother to even try it until later...hoping they would have it cleaned up.
I finally broke down and bought the set that included rage of the wookie..the one that come with a Barc. Figured why not...only 30 bucks and can put it on my all access pass.
UGGGGGGGGGGGG....talk about a waste of money. Tried again with NGE...once more it sucked.
I dont subscribe to MMOs to play Sims games. Let alone the laundry list of things I have stated over the years I didnt care for.
Bottom line is that once the NDA was lifted, SWg became its own worse enemy before launch. After launch it only got worse.
There are folks who think SWG was the greatest thing since sliced bread. The problem being, most MMO players dont agree with em.
See the thing is, you never played SWG pre-cu. If you bought the game with the wookie xpac, you started playing in the combat upgrade.
It was only around for like 6 months and then came the NGE. The CU brought in so much crap and took away so much of the origional game. It wasn't even the combat revamp that was talked and discussed, but a bait and switch from SOE, only not as harsh as the NGE.
The origional game had it's flaws for sure, but is still a body of work that was way way ahead of it's time.
SOE has had an EPIC fail on their hands for quite some time but having the heir apparent, KOTORO is affirmation of their failure. LA involvement nowithstanding , SOE was on the front lines of the game lied as they dropped the ball, time and time again.
Southwest flies cheaply to Los Vegas - SOE thinks to date that no one from the Kauri server is attending this years Fan Faire
. Lets let them keep on thinking that.
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http://about.me/JestorRodo/
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There are obviously more people who thought the old game was good than think the NGE is good. The empty servers are a pretty good indication of that.
Hey Hubert
Quit putting words in my mouth. I have never said NGE was good, or that I play it.
Thanks for trying though.
There were more folks who didnt play Pre-whatever than did....that is the number you should be looking at. I would hope pre-whatever was better than Benny Hill-NGE....you cant really do much worse than a game that was slapped together over anothers frame-work...in a short time frame no less.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.