If you are so well versed in my facts and dirty laundry, perhaps you can then air it for me and all others to see, with my permission... Because I'm rather curious about it myself. I did wonder where all my socks disappear, perhaps they are in that pile.
As for the debate, sounds like I clearly participated in the other part of that debate, the one that was interested mainly in the actual effects to the game instead of the prancing, posturing and outright shouting matches that went on about the 'morality'. My opinion was then and is now that CCP gets to do what they want with their sandbox, and if it benefits them and harms RMTers, it's a positive thing.
You may disagree with me, or might consider my opinion superfluous, but it quite clearly states my entire interest in the GTC trade system.
I don't see you 'airing' anything in this conversation, really. You shout a lot about how 'there are things going on that we're not told about', but fail to provide evidence. Even the BoB - Dev debacle didn't go anywhere until there was evidence, so all you are accomplishing is alienating the people who already have heard it a thousand times (and believe me, I at least haven't seen any truly original claims in your postings).
As for calling us trolls, well, it must be frustrating to be met with reasoned arguments you cannot refute, since you consistently choose to attack the messenger and not the message. The message we give is as simple as 'I disagree'. I do not say you should just stop worrying and start loving the Bomb, but allow me the right to disagree with your argument without calling me a troll, shit-slinger and any other derogatory terms. Even indirectly. Thank you.
PM me your corp/alliance and i'll PM you what I know back if your unhappy posting here but for the third time unless your going to say who you flew with, not much I can do for you.
You have been participating in the debate and while we disagree you seem quite confused in that you were never called a troll, to the point where they were clearly singled out as people posting nothing more than 'QQ MOAR", nor has anyone been attacked instead of their message, you seem to be clutching at straws for any reason to argue over other than the op.
Reasoned arguments I cannot refute? what argument have you reasoned, that CCP's GTC system harms RMT, wtf has this got to do with anything? I've stated people legally buy GTC (and that's bad for the game) and that people cash out of the game (not uniquely through GTC). How easy, the method by which its done is irrelevant the point is it happens. You do realise this is the epitome of a straw man argument?
As for 'shouting' that things are happening and your not being told, erm where?
Who the hell cares if some rich guy can afford a 1000 GTC's to get the isk to buy a cap char with Titan? An unexperienced player with a super cap = LOL. He will die the first time he encounters a half way decent alliance.
Train Hictor, tackle him and cackle your head off as the Dreads are cynoed in to pulverize it.
Yes someone with money can buy himself an advantage of isk, but your brain is your greatest asset and can overcome his wallet size with ease.
Also claiming that there is no skill involved in fleet warfare is ludicrous. Maybe you don't pay attention to what's happening and just press f1-f8 until you pop, but there is usually lots that can be done by observing what's actually going on, if you want to improve you and your sides chances of winning the battle.
Some of the old alliances have been around for a long time and has had a long time to dig their foxhole, but why should you be able to trash all their work with no effort? Seems to me that is what you're expecting...
If you want to compete, then you'll have to build something that is attractive to players so you can build a strong fleet. And get a foothold somewhere in nullsec. Doing so is not impossible, but on the other hand NOBODY ever said EVE would be easy.
I think your main problem is your defeatist attitude.
"If you say 'I can't' to yourself every day for a month, do you think it will suddenly become easier?"
I am firmly convinced that the biggest limitation we face as EVE players is the limitation of our own thinking.
I'm helping to prepare a corporation for factional warfare. I am amazed at all that we have discovered in the way of preparation. Things that could just as easily be overlooked by ourselves or our opponents. Sure, we will need skill when battle is joined, but skill cannot overcome inadequate preparation.
We are small and doing something on a small scale. If we were large enough and more experienced we would be working on that 0.0 foothold and setting our sights on the best way to cut our own spot out of someone elses space.
From my understanding, most players see eve PvP as
Lock target
Press F1-F8
Turn tank on (or speed tank)
Wait to see who dies first.
While eve PvP is by no means a twitch game, solo and small gang pvp still has a very strong individual skill element in it.
I remember sort of having a similar idea, wherein the skill was pretty much all in the ship type and selection of fitting. In my little world, if you had a combination of better ship, better fitting fitting and/or skills you would win. I thought I was a relativley decent pvper because I had a few pretty nasty setups (read: Mostly NOS or ECM abuse before they changed them) until I met a guy called Gazza29 this was in mid 04 to mid 05 I think... (pretty sure we were alliance mates in XETIC and then later ASCN but he quit in 2005.. I think the guy who has his account now bought it).. he used to go out in the biggest pile of shit ships than nobody thought were any good for solo pvp back then. Even now nobody considers ships like the Harpy or to a lesser degree, the cerberus for solo PVP... He didnt use nanos, ecm, or nos or any of that stuff which was considered king for 1v1 back then.. would go deep into hostile space alone with cheap fittings... get their attention by killing a hauler or a miner or two... and then just rack up kill after kill, splitting them up and roaming around, winning numerous 1vN's that nobody thought was possible and he had by far the most solo BS kills with frigates and other smaller ships that never should have been able to pull it off than anyone else I knew. Since then I've really ignored the 'general consensus' of eve and just tried to use every single mechanic of the eve universe somehow to my advantage. There is a lot to eve pvp than meets the eye initially.
IMO the most overlooked factor by far is manouvering... Especially if you pilot Amarr ships.
They should have a look at the EVE-O Tracking Guide or Missle Guide. These will open up a whole new world of tactics to the PvPer, as well as a whole new set of things to consider in weapon selection.
@smoking ever heard of wd a corp that does in empire trade to make money for alliances?
O and sure a new corp cant kill bob in a year, but make enough money, recruit enought people, time you assault right and you can take down any alliance's titan, adn even if you ally with the right people take down one of the smaller alliance (IRC and the likes)
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
Right on Jeratan! For anyone who thinks EVE PvP is: Lock target
Press F1-F8
Turn tank on (or speed tank)
Wait to see who dies first.
They should have a look at the EVE-O Tracking Guide or Missle Guide. These will open up a whole new world of tactics to the PvPer, as well as a whole new set of things to consider in weapon selection.
If they don't understand gunnery/missile mechanics then definetly yes.
Manouvering stratecially goes a lot more beyond tracking and missile explosion mechanics, though.
Even I am still learning ways to refine my strategies.. outsmarting and outmanouvering my opponents after thousands of kills, hundreds of billions isk damage done and considerable experience FCing. If you think you know everything there is to know about eve pvp I can promise you your confidence is ill-placed.
Tsk, tsk .. so OP how much did you lose? This is one of the most elaborate whine posts ive ever seen, and it mostly contains slander, facts taken from the game and exagerated beyond belief plus some of your oppinions that are completly bull.
I wont debate with you and try to convince you to wake up and look at the game as it is, but i do find some of your affirmations hilarious at best. And pfft, no Outbreak aint dead. Check your facts.
Selling GTC for ISK does not mean anyone payed for their multi-billion ISK ships with GTCs. That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. While possible, it isn't plausible. Not only that, but there is absolutely zero proof of anyone buying a titan with GTCs. It is just a 'fact' that you pulled out of nowhere based on assumptions that people made. It is asinine to think that someone -actually- spent that much real life money on a game. And if they did, I don't know why you're complaining. They're the stupid ones. If a guy actually spent over 40 grand on something that could be lost at any moment.. he's a complete idiot, and it won't last long.
I was playing this game for nearly 4 years (with breaks) and it's not a game for everyone. The game naturally evolves so that it won't stagnate and die. It has some good points and some bad but it's the only sandbox PvP game I know. It's a niche game and no wonder so many people, especially those who expected to find your typical "grind the orc" MMORPG are disappointed.
With all that said, I tend to agree with a lot of the OP points. The game has changed quite drastically since the time I started playing and IMHO it didn't change for good. First, that feeling of achievement or feeling of loss in PvP is pretty much gone. ISK is flowing like a river and people are throwing hundreds of millions of ISK around in a single battle. Unfortunately many of those millions are acquired not by good planning or in-game effort. Most of it either bought with real money through GTC or acquired by milking utility accounts. It has become so that the game is hardly worth playing with one account as you will feel handicapped most of the time.
This game is for hardcore players, those players in large part are standing on 2 opposite sides, but are profiting from each other. On the one side, there are guys with some spare bucks who wish to spend it on their hobby (and yes, it is a hobby, not a game), on the other side are guys with not-so-good RL income who profit from this game (and for them it's a job). There are whole alliances that were financing their "rise from the ashes" by a steady stream of RMT ISK from their large community; there are other alliances that are making profit the main reason for their in-game existence. Not surprisingly they are each-other best friends.
I'll give you one example. Several years ago, I've talked with one of my co-workers who wasn't playing any MMORPG about Eve (I was playing Eve for 1.5 years then). He said that he didn't know anything about the game, but he'll ask his friends about it. The next day he said that he talked to someone about the game and they say you can make some bucks off it.
Bottom line - Eve is all about ISK and that ISK for the most part is not coming from real players really playing the game. It's either bought, or syphoned through utility accounts.
Well, utility accounts are the accounts that ppl use not actually to play the game and enjoy it, but only for the sole purpose of making more ISK. In an ideal world, we'd have a MMORPG with one account per player, but it's an ideal and like every other ideal it's unattainable.
Personally I've went from being the one who simply couldn't afford to spend money on more than one account 4 years ago to a position where I can have a lot, but don't have time to play (extremes aren't good, but it's life). Regardless of my personal well-being I never liked RMT and everything that is connected with it.
But there's one thing in this game is worth playing it for a long time - it's the community. In any other MMORPG I've never had that feeling of interaction with real ppl you play the game with. For me the best aspect of the game are the players, the members of your corp and alliance, or even enemies. PvP and economy (which is second to none in MMORPG market) come 2-nd and 3-rd. Had to say that because my first post was so negative that one has to wonder how the hell I've spent 4 years of my life playing Eve.
Well, the difference is that with 2 accounts you can make twice more money, with 3 accounts it's 3 times, etc etc. Well, I'm exaggerating of course, but that's how it works. With one account you-re at a frontline and steadily losing money. With 2 you can keep one at a frontline and the second can rat, with 3 or 4 accounts you can keep battleship pilot and capital pilot at a frontline and other 2 are running an industrial empire and still rolling in hundreds of millions. And in the current state of the game 1+ or even 2+ accounts are pretty much a pre req if you want to fly what everyone around you is flying and there's only one way to circumvent it - GTCs.
Wow! This hypothetical player you're talking about must really be good! He has 2 ships on the front line ready for (or already participating in) fleet battles at a moment's notice. At the same time he has 2 other characters that are...what? Ratting in 0.0? Mining in 0.0? Running lvl 4 mission?
I'll tell you what. If anyone has the nerve to participate in high stakes PvP at the same time as he is making isk on other activities, he DESERVES to make more isk than the rest of us do.
I have 2 accounts myself. I do one of 3 things: I run my PvP character, or, I run my mining/industry character, or, I have my PvP character hauling for my mining character.
There is NO WAY I would attempt to mine, much less rat or run mission when I have my PvP character on the prowl. But that's just me. Point is, even with 2 accounts, I'm either PvPing or making isk, never both at once.
I'm guessing most people with multi accounts are the same.
Well, I'm not talking about ratting or mining or missions here. It's indeed very hard to both participate in PvP war and rat/mine/run missions at the same time. But economically most successful players never rat or run missions and they also don't mine. They run large scale industrial operations - ship invention, or T2 production enterprises with several T2 BPOs, those guys sell HACs Command Ships and other T2 goodies. Tbh, I don't know how many ppl are capable of doing this but from my experience I've known quite a few, so it must not be that rare.
CCP maintain a state of censoring as much negative press about the game as they possibly can so this article is designed to give you a true appraisal of what eve is actually like. EVE does have a lot of points of merit such as sandbox gameplay, single instance and unique training methods but today we look at some popular topics and you get at least my opinion to weigh against the fanboi "eve can do no wrong" and the 2 week old "he killed my ship this game sux" PVP: EVE's pvp has been much heralded and one of the attractions to many of the more hardcore gamers is that the smart will succeed at the expense of the stupid., however things have changed. One of the most critical changes was the extent to which $:isk trading is allowed. Most new players these days take advantage of CCP's official buy your way in game system. Several of the biggest ships in game were bought by people for tens of thousands of dollars rather than actually putting ingame effort into getting them. While you cant (and if you do its envy) blame these people for doing it, you have to ask if thats the kind of game you want to play, would you play pool with someone who can just pay to have balls potted on their turn? There are essentially two forms of pvp in eve. The first involves finding weaker targets than yourself to kill for ego or financial reasons. The second involves bringing enough friends to outnumber someone of equal strength. The sad result is there is very little skill in pvp. Yes there is ship fitting and yours may be a great a setup but the application is that you can fly a junk ship and still win fights because your either going to attack someone who isn't pvp ready (read has an npc ship aka belt/suicide ganking) or your going to outnumber your enemy so heavily as long as your ship isn't trying to mine while it should be fighting your sides going to win, not to mention that the performance of the game in big fights is so bad that it often boils down to who's lucky enough to not keep jumping across the screen lagged out and actually able to fire there weapons at all. In eve's current form the only skill in pvp is at alliance leadership level (read knowing when to fight and when to run) so as you can see quite a shallow experience especially for you who will 99.9% not ever be involved in this. This lead eve's smartest and finest to invest heavily in meta gaming (see google) most large active alliances have members who access your out of game communication sources (forums etc) without authorization, you can think of it as hacking but technically its not apparently. even to the extent where ts/vent servers get DNS attacks to stop you playing when your fighting an enemy. This means your going to be used as a disposable asset to someone else's game. If you join one of the bigger entities in eve you will be fed endless propaganda about how great you are by being a part of this great entity but the truth is your there as long as your helping make the leaders of said organization very rich. EVE is founded on the efforts of the little guy run off with by the leadership as soon as things get tough. Many mortgages were paid for by this game as leaders syphoned of assets and ebayed them. So why not start your own outfit? Because you will never ever get a foothold. EVE relies on numbers not skill. There are four power blocs in eve. BOB, Goonswarm, red alliance, and the northern nap bloc. All of these groups have been in the game since very early in its inception, they change names/composition occasionally as an alliance closes and some directors take all the assets for themselves and reform under a new name but no new entity has ever formed and become a contender in the game. Goonswarm were a late entry but they were not founded in the game they were an exclusive community that joined the game together. Trying to contend with these entities would require finances you will never achieve. These guys were around when you could jump through gates to magically double your cargo, win isk printing machines (read exclusive crafting rights), set a skill training just before DT and log in to see it completed, farm NPC's that spawned to often. EVE has long since been tightened up but your opposition made insane amounts of progress in game you will never get the chance to as CCP while even aware of the old exploits follow a line of stop it happening again and keep it quiet. Moreover they use this huge headstart to keep you from ever catching up. Skillpoints is not the grind in eve, in game currency is and its protected as much as possible to keep you out. So some will say well just ignore the big alliance stuff if its really that bad. And here we go back to the first style of pvp. If your not attacking big alliances your left with 'noobs' and 'carebears' to fulfill your gaming experience. A real challenge. Some very skilled pvp'ers have tried to be entities which fight purely for the pleasure of the experience and improving their prowess at it such as a group called outbreak. They eventually hit the block where they could do nothing but turn up to huge laggy fights and compete to see who could actually load there screen to play first. Needless to say they all got bored of it and in any noticeable capacity don't exist any longer. There's just a few reason why its not all its touted to be and we haven't even looked at such things like having to wait 3 hrs to get a 20m fight, the failure of factional warfare, shooting inanimate objects. But as you can see if things are this bad your probably going to want to spend more time with the PVE content and if that's the case EVE is not the game to play.
well most people do market trading and other stuff in eve its not just about pvp eve has lots of things to do besides pvp you dead wrong about eve is about pvp i see other people trading and making money mining selling ships making money in many different ways eve has mix of everythin
Shouldnt it be more about making first contact with aliens and exploring the deep dark space? One can make money on Earth too you know.
CCP is just exploiting players basic needs ... "as much as possible in no time", and this time - its legal.
GTC is perfect tool for it, imagine few milion $ for CCP every year earned on players greed , beside 15$/month per account. As one player told me (hes running 4 accounts) i want to see some goals - in my life.
All I can say is that there hasn't been a single alliance that has lasted the full span of my 3 year player.
Back when I was new. There was Curse Alliance, XETIC, and Stain Alliance.
CA was powerful, feared, and not much liked, much like the Goons and BOBB are these days.
All three of those aliances have died, every alliance that I knew from the beginning either died or reformed itself.
Granted, the current 0.0 politics seem very monolithic and game mechanics do lend some support to that chain of events. But there are always changes in the political landscape. I doubt that it will be the same deal forever.
Comments
"But we'll wait patiently for people to offer reasoned debate and respond as it appears
"
Oh God, this makes me laugh!
Your going to be waiting a long time my friend, as nothing that even resembles what you mentioned exist on MMORPG.com
Reasoned debate? WTF is that?
If you are so well versed in my facts and dirty laundry, perhaps you can then air it for me and all others to see, with my permission... Because I'm rather curious about it myself. I did wonder where all my socks disappear, perhaps they are in that pile.
As for the debate, sounds like I clearly participated in the other part of that debate, the one that was interested mainly in the actual effects to the game instead of the prancing, posturing and outright shouting matches that went on about the 'morality'. My opinion was then and is now that CCP gets to do what they want with their sandbox, and if it benefits them and harms RMTers, it's a positive thing.
You may disagree with me, or might consider my opinion superfluous, but it quite clearly states my entire interest in the GTC trade system.
I don't see you 'airing' anything in this conversation, really. You shout a lot about how 'there are things going on that we're not told about', but fail to provide evidence. Even the BoB - Dev debacle didn't go anywhere until there was evidence, so all you are accomplishing is alienating the people who already have heard it a thousand times (and believe me, I at least haven't seen any truly original claims in your postings).
As for calling us trolls, well, it must be frustrating to be met with reasoned arguments you cannot refute, since you consistently choose to attack the messenger and not the message. The message we give is as simple as 'I disagree'. I do not say you should just stop worrying and start loving the Bomb, but allow me the right to disagree with your argument without calling me a troll, shit-slinger and any other derogatory terms. Even indirectly. Thank you.
PM me your corp/alliance and i'll PM you what I know back if your unhappy posting here but for the third time unless your going to say who you flew with, not much I can do for you.
You have been participating in the debate and while we disagree you seem quite confused in that you were never called a troll, to the point where they were clearly singled out as people posting nothing more than 'QQ MOAR", nor has anyone been attacked instead of their message, you seem to be clutching at straws for any reason to argue over other than the op.
Reasoned arguments I cannot refute? what argument have you reasoned, that CCP's GTC system harms RMT, wtf has this got to do with anything? I've stated people legally buy GTC (and that's bad for the game) and that people cash out of the game (not uniquely through GTC). How easy, the method by which its done is irrelevant the point is it happens. You do realise this is the epitome of a straw man argument?
As for 'shouting' that things are happening and your not being told, erm where?
Eh. Sounds like someone just had a bad experience and couldn't stand it.
Don't draw fire. It irritates the people around you.
Friendly fire - isn't.
When in doubt empty the magazine.
Teamwork is essential. It gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
Who the hell cares if some rich guy can afford a 1000 GTC's to get the isk to buy a cap char with Titan? An unexperienced player with a super cap = LOL. He will die the first time he encounters a half way decent alliance.
Train Hictor, tackle him and cackle your head off as the Dreads are cynoed in to pulverize it.
Yes someone with money can buy himself an advantage of isk, but your brain is your greatest asset and can overcome his wallet size with ease.
Also claiming that there is no skill involved in fleet warfare is ludicrous. Maybe you don't pay attention to what's happening and just press f1-f8 until you pop, but there is usually lots that can be done by observing what's actually going on, if you want to improve you and your sides chances of winning the battle.
Some of the old alliances have been around for a long time and has had a long time to dig their foxhole, but why should you be able to trash all their work with no effort? Seems to me that is what you're expecting...
If you want to compete, then you'll have to build something that is attractive to players so you can build a strong fleet. And get a foothold somewhere in nullsec. Doing so is not impossible, but on the other hand NOBODY ever said EVE would be easy.
I think your main problem is your defeatist attitude.
I forget who said this (loosely quoted):
"If you say 'I can't' to yourself every day for a month, do you think it will suddenly become easier?"
I am firmly convinced that the biggest limitation we face as EVE players is the limitation of our own thinking.
I'm helping to prepare a corporation for factional warfare. I am amazed at all that we have discovered in the way of preparation. Things that could just as easily be overlooked by ourselves or our opponents. Sure, we will need skill when battle is joined, but skill cannot overcome inadequate preparation.
We are small and doing something on a small scale. If we were large enough and more experienced we would be working on that 0.0 foothold and setting our sights on the best way to cut our own spot out of someone elses space.
From my understanding, most players see eve PvP as
Lock target
Press F1-F8
Turn tank on (or speed tank)
Wait to see who dies first.
While eve PvP is by no means a twitch game, solo and small gang pvp still has a very strong individual skill element in it.
I remember sort of having a similar idea, wherein the skill was pretty much all in the ship type and selection of fitting. In my little world, if you had a combination of better ship, better fitting fitting and/or skills you would win. I thought I was a relativley decent pvper because I had a few pretty nasty setups (read: Mostly NOS or ECM abuse before they changed them) until I met a guy called Gazza29 this was in mid 04 to mid 05 I think... (pretty sure we were alliance mates in XETIC and then later ASCN but he quit in 2005.. I think the guy who has his account now bought it).. he used to go out in the biggest pile of shit ships than nobody thought were any good for solo pvp back then. Even now nobody considers ships like the Harpy or to a lesser degree, the cerberus for solo PVP... He didnt use nanos, ecm, or nos or any of that stuff which was considered king for 1v1 back then.. would go deep into hostile space alone with cheap fittings... get their attention by killing a hauler or a miner or two... and then just rack up kill after kill, splitting them up and roaming around, winning numerous 1vN's that nobody thought was possible and he had by far the most solo BS kills with frigates and other smaller ships that never should have been able to pull it off than anyone else I knew. Since then I've really ignored the 'general consensus' of eve and just tried to use every single mechanic of the eve universe somehow to my advantage. There is a lot to eve pvp than meets the eye initially.
IMO the most overlooked factor by far is manouvering... Especially if you pilot Amarr ships.
Right on Jeratan!
For anyone who thinks EVE PvP is:
Lock target
Press F1-F8
Turn tank on (or speed tank)
Wait to see who dies first.
They should have a look at the EVE-O Tracking Guide or Missle Guide. These will open up a whole new world of tactics to the PvPer, as well as a whole new set of things to consider in weapon selection.
@smoking ever heard of wd a corp that does in empire trade to make money for alliances?
O and sure a new corp cant kill bob in a year, but make enough money, recruit enought people, time you assault right and you can take down any alliance's titan, adn even if you ally with the right people take down one of the smaller alliance (IRC and the likes)
I'm not a no life that sits in front of his computer all day long, I'm an intern that sits in front of his computer all day long.
If they don't understand gunnery/missile mechanics then definetly yes.
Manouvering stratecially goes a lot more beyond tracking and missile explosion mechanics, though.
Even I am still learning ways to refine my strategies.. outsmarting and outmanouvering my opponents after thousands of kills, hundreds of billions isk damage done and considerable experience FCing. If you think you know everything there is to know about eve pvp I can promise you your confidence is ill-placed.
Tsk, tsk .. so OP how much did you lose? This is one of the most elaborate whine posts ive ever seen, and it mostly contains slander, facts taken from the game and exagerated beyond belief plus some of your oppinions that are completly bull.
I wont debate with you and try to convince you to wake up and look at the game as it is, but i do find some of your affirmations hilarious at best. And pfft, no Outbreak aint dead. Check your facts.
Selling GTC for ISK does not mean anyone payed for their multi-billion ISK ships with GTCs. That's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. While possible, it isn't plausible. Not only that, but there is absolutely zero proof of anyone buying a titan with GTCs. It is just a 'fact' that you pulled out of nowhere based on assumptions that people made. It is asinine to think that someone -actually- spent that much real life money on a game. And if they did, I don't know why you're complaining. They're the stupid ones. If a guy actually spent over 40 grand on something that could be lost at any moment.. he's a complete idiot, and it won't last long.
Good points op. Maybe that's why Curzon Dax left.
Can the OP explain why, given his view of PvP, that my corp is taking on much larger gangs sometimes 10 v 30 and winning?
I was playing this game for nearly 4 years (with breaks) and it's not a game for everyone. The game naturally evolves so that it won't stagnate and die. It has some good points and some bad but it's the only sandbox PvP game I know. It's a niche game and no wonder so many people, especially those who expected to find your typical "grind the orc" MMORPG are disappointed.
With all that said, I tend to agree with a lot of the OP points. The game has changed quite drastically since the time I started playing and IMHO it didn't change for good. First, that feeling of achievement or feeling of loss in PvP is pretty much gone. ISK is flowing like a river and people are throwing hundreds of millions of ISK around in a single battle. Unfortunately many of those millions are acquired not by good planning or in-game effort. Most of it either bought with real money through GTC or acquired by milking utility accounts. It has become so that the game is hardly worth playing with one account as you will feel handicapped most of the time.
This game is for hardcore players, those players in large part are standing on 2 opposite sides, but are profiting from each other. On the one side, there are guys with some spare bucks who wish to spend it on their hobby (and yes, it is a hobby, not a game), on the other side are guys with not-so-good RL income who profit from this game (and for them it's a job). There are whole alliances that were financing their "rise from the ashes" by a steady stream of RMT ISK from their large community; there are other alliances that are making profit the main reason for their in-game existence. Not surprisingly they are each-other best friends.
I'll give you one example. Several years ago, I've talked with one of my co-workers who wasn't playing any MMORPG about Eve (I was playing Eve for 1.5 years then). He said that he didn't know anything about the game, but he'll ask his friends about it. The next day he said that he talked to someone about the game and they say you can make some bucks off it.
Bottom line - Eve is all about ISK and that ISK for the most part is not coming from real players really playing the game. It's either bought, or syphoned through utility accounts.
I'm not sure Mog, exactly what do you mean by "utility accounts"?
Well, utility accounts are the accounts that ppl use not actually to play the game and enjoy it, but only for the sole purpose of making more ISK. In an ideal world, we'd have a MMORPG with one account per player, but it's an ideal and like every other ideal it's unattainable.
Personally I've went from being the one who simply couldn't afford to spend money on more than one account 4 years ago to a position where I can have a lot, but don't have time to play (extremes aren't good, but it's life). Regardless of my personal well-being I never liked RMT and everything that is connected with it.
But there's one thing in this game is worth playing it for a long time - it's the community. In any other MMORPG I've never had that feeling of interaction with real ppl you play the game with. For me the best aspect of the game are the players, the members of your corp and alliance, or even enemies. PvP and economy (which is second to none in MMORPG market) come 2-nd and 3-rd. Had to say that because my first post was so negative that one has to wonder how the hell I've spent 4 years of my life playing Eve.
So, what is the difference between having one character to PvP and one to make money, or having one character that does it all?
If I have 2 characters, when I'm making money, I'm not playing EVE? Sorry, but that sounds pretty nonsensical to me.
Well, the difference is that with 2 accounts you can make twice more money, with 3 accounts it's 3 times, etc etc. Well, I'm exaggerating of course, but that's how it works. With one account you-re at a frontline and steadily losing money. With 2 you can keep one at a frontline and the second can rat, with 3 or 4 accounts you can keep battleship pilot and capital pilot at a frontline and other 2 are running an industrial empire and still rolling in hundreds of millions. And in the current state of the game 1+ or even 2+ accounts are pretty much a pre req if you want to fly what everyone around you is flying and there's only one way to circumvent it - GTCs.
Wow! This hypothetical player you're talking about must really be good! He has 2 ships on the front line ready for (or already participating in) fleet battles at a moment's notice. At the same time he has 2 other characters that are...what? Ratting in 0.0? Mining in 0.0? Running lvl 4 mission?
I'll tell you what. If anyone has the nerve to participate in high stakes PvP at the same time as he is making isk on other activities, he DESERVES to make more isk than the rest of us do.
I have 2 accounts myself. I do one of 3 things: I run my PvP character, or, I run my mining/industry character, or, I have my PvP character hauling for my mining character.
There is NO WAY I would attempt to mine, much less rat or run mission when I have my PvP character on the prowl. But that's just me. Point is, even with 2 accounts, I'm either PvPing or making isk, never both at once.
I'm guessing most people with multi accounts are the same.
Well, I'm not talking about ratting or mining or missions here. It's indeed very hard to both participate in PvP war and rat/mine/run missions at the same time. But economically most successful players never rat or run missions and they also don't mine. They run large scale industrial operations - ship invention, or T2 production enterprises with several T2 BPOs, those guys sell HACs Command Ships and other T2 goodies. Tbh, I don't know how many ppl are capable of doing this but from my experience I've known quite a few, so it must not be that rare.
well most people do market trading and other stuff in eve its not just about pvp eve has lots of things to do besides pvp you dead wrong about eve is about pvp i see other people trading and making money mining selling ships making money in many different ways eve has mix of everythin
Shouldnt it be more about making first contact with aliens and exploring the deep dark space? One can make money on Earth too you know.
CCP is just exploiting players basic needs ... "as much as possible in no time", and this time - its legal.
GTC is perfect tool for it, imagine few milion $ for CCP every year earned on players greed , beside 15$/month per account. As one player told me (hes running 4 accounts) i want to see some goals - in my life.
All I can say is that there hasn't been a single alliance that has lasted the full span of my 3 year player.
Back when I was new. There was Curse Alliance, XETIC, and Stain Alliance.
CA was powerful, feared, and not much liked, much like the Goons and BOBB are these days.
All three of those aliances have died, every alliance that I knew from the beginning either died or reformed itself.
Granted, the current 0.0 politics seem very monolithic and game mechanics do lend some support to that chain of events. But there are always changes in the political landscape. I doubt that it will be the same deal forever.