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Can You Accept Both Science and The Bible?
Majestico
Member UncommonPosts: 481
I was raised in a Catholic family, but I have always had issues with openly accepting religion. As such, from my early teens to adulthood, I declared myself as being agnostic, believing that we humans did not have the capability to conceive of what truly is the purpose of The Universe, and what is beyond it. A rather safe cop-out clause.
However, as I have gotten older, and many of my relatives and close friends have died, I have began to wonder about the deeper philosophical questions that mankind asks. The more I learn, the more confused I seem to become!
Now I know this issue has probably been done in this forum before, but I missed it, so if this topic has been done to death - no pun intended, then sorry but I would really like to get some feedback.
The question I have is this,
With more and more data and evidence being produced by the scientific community about the origin of the Universe and our evoloution, which in turn contradicts The Bible, is it possible to accept both as being true? If so, how?
I mean, just as a starter, in today's world, how can you accept the story of Adam and Eve as being fact? I once asked a teacher this at my strict, catholic school. He said that it was only a parable, and that it was used by scholars in the day to explain certain things to the lay person. I'm sorry, but that just is not the case. If you believe in The Bible, then the story of Adam and Eve is not a parable, but is meant to be taken as fact. This is the reason why Jesus died on the cross afterall, to absolve us of the Original Sin, committed by Adam and Eve. So if you accept everything about what we know in the scientific community to be true - how then can you also accept texts such as Genesis in The Bible?
Comments
A rather alarming portion of Christians are in denial, really.
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If you go and look at history, what you'll find is that when people are faced with hardship or dire situations, they tend to go towards the supernatural. I'm not saying just Christianity, but any of the religions or beliefs in history.
Who knows why, maybe the psychiatric field does, but I don't. I've noticed with myself that when things get rough I tend to drop a little of the rational side I had and become more prone to outside persuasions. I guess the bad things sometimes seem so unbelievable that it opens the mind for other things. Or, maybe it's just the mind grasping to anything to try to make sense out of life.
I don't know what I think about religion. I do know I believe in a creator of some sort, but competing religions has always made me somewhat cynical. Especially when their roots of creation can be traced back to former man made myths. And even more so when they start the typical exclusionary practices that nearly all of the religions seem to exhibit in one way or another.
I think our creator and science jibe 100%. I do not think that our mind and it's imaginatory powers run parallel to nature however. And honestly, from what I've seen of religions, they seem very much to have the marks of man's imagination running rampant through them.
In other words, I feel safe in believing in God. I do not feel safe in following a religion.
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Search feature is a neat thing to use.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Geez...what is it with you people and the bible and god and stuff?
lol i know it. Its discussed here more than any other forum I have ever seen...same goes for Politics. If a thread for politics or religion isn't posted in a 12 hour time span then its not a mmorpg.com forum. Also, when it comes to religion, people here are inconsiderate (both sides of the fence) and it never ends up nice. Hence, why 99.8% of ALL forums (but mmorpg.com) locks religious posts.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
No because they say different things.
The way I see it is why do you want to believe in a God creating us when the story of evolution and we came to be is a far more beautiful and fascinating story. Science has proven sooo many facts we know today but we still havn't even touched the tip of the iceberg, soo much that doesn't make sense and that we don't understand, so imagine everything in the future which we'll discover.
Sure a God could have created us and maybe thats where the universe came from, who knows, it's unlikely but so was the world beign round at one point. However my problem with The Bible and all that was this dates back to thousands of years ago where we didn't have the technology or understanding we have today. We looked up into the skies and was amazed by what we saw and thought things like the Sun was God, we didn't understand what we did today. Whenever someone got ill we preyed to a higher power to save us and for a miracle to happen. Then also Religion became of a way of control to bring law and order into this world and for selfish leaders to follow them and their God. Religion has also been used as a tool to keep women out of power and because of jealous men didn't want their women straying away like they did.
IMO religion as we know it is a made up fairy tale from when we didn't have the technology we have today for something to look upto and because we couldn't understand or want to believe that when we die that's it, there must be a reason for living, when the truth is there probably isn't one.
I like to believe in what we know in science today with Evolution and everything happening on the earth because of pure chance like our Planet being just the right ize and just the right distance from the Sun. I like to believe we're all made up from chemical reactions and that when we die our bodies decay and get turned into other elements and compounds and we make something else, like for example what I'm made of today could have been parts from human beings or other animals thousands of years ago. The water we're drinking today has been in other animals and humans to help them live, we're 3/4 water and most of the water we're made up of has been in another human at one point.
However because theres sooo much yet to discover lots of what we know is just theorys built up upon theorys, like most of Atmoic science we still understand hardly anything about. Like Sure there are Atoms made up of Protons, Electrons and Neutronsbut then they go even smaller and these particles are made up of smaller particles (forgot the name) then we enter the unknown of do they go even smaller?
It's the power this knowledge has given to us Humans that Religion doesn't want us to know and is trying to restrict us, without finding out the existance of the Atom we would never have been able to create Nuclear power or the Atom Bomb and these are great leaps in technology for us which will help to advance the Human race over possible alien threats or effecting the worlds we live in less.
I'm going on and on now but my Basic points is don't just believe in something because you're told to.
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Talking about SWG much?
Short answer: yes
Everyone has the same evidence to look at, it's a matter of what you are willing to postulate based upon that evidence. Both sides, creation, and evolution, require leaps of faith, and anyone who tells you that one does not is simply in denial.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Anyone who says the Bible is 100% accurate or 100% factual is wrong.
Anyone who says science is 100% accurate or 100% actual is wrong.
Both hold truths as well as deceit, both are fallible, and both rely on the honesty and intelligence of ordinary men to interpret them.
Edit: I think I may have finally found an argument even Draenor will agree with.
Those who follow a religion are so often alike. They speak earnestly, but without comprehension. They call for justice when they truly mean the triumph of their god.
You already have all the answers in front of you. All the pieces are there and they fit. It should be easy to bring them back together.
Those who are not blinded by ignorance are given a similar answer to yours. A parable, you say? If I'm not mistake people have given up their lives to defending every last word in this book and he tells you "Well, it has good morales right?!" - I'm surprised he has the nerve to speak. This is where most people fail to catch the flaw. They take you for a fool, clearly, but are you? That is the real question.
The Bible is a tool and it has but one purpose: manipulation. Anyone intelligent enough to see through the lies is always thoroughly blindsided by parables. I can't say from a logical stand point that thousands of men would be willing to go to war and give their lives for a book that shows good morale stories. However, I could see people giving their lives for a book considered to be teachings of God. Would you give someone who wrote a book with parables political power? I can't say that would be a normal trend or be in anyway rational. However, I could see the followers of a book of God's decree something that might gain political power.
See where I'm going?
I hate giving all the answers..so I won't.
I do feel some solace for you, I was in the same place as you. I have to say, many never leave after they arrive where you are. Let us hope that you are not the same as the rest.
This is a joke.
Evolution does not postulate on the creation of the universe or this planet.
Evolution does not give any mention to the origin of life (that's abiogenesis, not evolution; something you'd do well to understand the difference between).
There is no leap of faith required to understand or acknowledge evolution, because if there was then it would not be a scientific theory.
There is no factual support for a creation origin. None. Saying "well how else did it get here?" is not factual support. Not knowing is not factual support.
There is plenty of evidence for the origin of the earth as a large molten mass formed by the gravitational pull of our star. There is plenty of evidence for the concept of the Big Bang (though it is certainly not perfect and scientists as a whole generally acknowledge that there will be unknowns in regards to the origins of the universe -- this is not an excuse to slap "God did it!" into the blanks).
The one in denial here is you -- for insinuating that the two concepts are somehow equal.
Science is not perfect, no. But there is no leap of faith in science. If you have to make a leap of faith, it is not science. That's the damn principle of the whole thing.
The only way to arrive at a creation origin is through logical fallacy.
Educate yourself.
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?? Science is merely the perception of the everyday phenomena that goes on around us.
Science doesnt contradict the concept of God, in any way shape or form. It might contradict religion, but by all means not God.
You would think if there were a God, in his infinite wisdom he would create life from the most basic, logic way possible. The big bang theory is great because it fulfills a philisophical concept of opposites. The universe started as a subatomic particle, then expanded to somthing bigger than we can imagine.
"God always takes the simplest way"
-Albert Einstein
Try this
Put parts of a bike in a bag, shake the bag up, and see if anything is assembled. Except its more complicated than that, put gas and dust in a bag, shake it up, and see if life is assembled. Pretty dumb huh? Even if this is the case, it would be impossible without divine intervention.
People cant prove there isnt a God. The proof i have is philosophy, trillions of testimonials, NDE, supernatural, quamtum physics, ect ect. And best of all.... L O G I C
"To one with faith, no explanation is needed, to one without, no explanation is possible"
-St. Thomas Aquintas
"A hint of philosophy brings ones mind to atheism, a depth brings his mind back to religion"
-Sir Francis Bacon
This is a joke.
Evolution does not postulate on the creation of the universe or this planet.
Evolution does not give any mention to the origin of life (that's abiogenesis, not evolution; something you'd do well to understand the difference between).
There is no leap of faith required to understand or acknowledge evolution, because if there was then it would not be a scientific theory.
There is no factual support for a creation origin. None. Saying "well how else did it get here?" is not factual support. Not knowing is not factual support.
There is plenty of evidence for the origin of the earth as a large molten mass formed by the gravitational pull of our star. There is plenty of evidence for the concept of the Big Bang (though it is certainly not perfect and scientists as a whole generally acknowledge that there will be unknowns in regards to the origins of the universe -- this is not an excuse to slap "God did it!" into the blanks).
The one in denial here is you -- for insinuating that the two concepts are somehow equal.
Science is not perfect, no. But there is no leap of faith in science. If you have to make a leap of faith, it is not science. That's the damn principle of the whole thing.
The only way to arrive at a creation origin is through logical fallacy.
Educate yourself.
sigh...oh God, not the evolution vs creation thing again.
Draenor is right. It requires faith to believe in evolution or creationism; no matter how convicted you think you are right.
I do find your last statement interesting because the more I educate myself in evolution the more I believe it is false. Now.....so this thread doesnt spin out of control that's all I will say about that in this post.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Gotta qualify your statement further for me to agree
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
This is a joke.
Evolution does not postulate on the creation of the universe or this planet.
Evolution does not give any mention to the origin of life (that's abiogenesis, not evolution; something you'd do well to understand the difference between).
There is no leap of faith required to understand or acknowledge evolution, because if there was then it would not be a scientific theory.
There is no factual support for a creation origin. None. Saying "well how else did it get here?" is not factual support. Not knowing is not factual support.
There is plenty of evidence for the origin of the earth as a large molten mass formed by the gravitational pull of our star. There is plenty of evidence for the concept of the Big Bang (though it is certainly not perfect and scientists as a whole generally acknowledge that there will be unknowns in regards to the origins of the universe -- this is not an excuse to slap "God did it!" into the blanks).
The one in denial here is you -- for insinuating that the two concepts are somehow equal.
Science is not perfect, no. But there is no leap of faith in science. If you have to make a leap of faith, it is not science. That's the damn principle of the whole thing.
The only way to arrive at a creation origin is through logical fallacy.
Educate yourself.
Lol...don't get me started kid...You don't want to debate me about this, you'll quickly find that you are the one that is not educated. I used to be an evolutionist...How could I not be seeing as how it's the only theory taught in public schools?
I know both sides of the debate, you want to post some details on why my post is a joke? I'll be glad to send you packing.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Gotta qualify your statement further for me to agree
Better?
what a loaded, ridiculous, ignorant question this thread topic is.
the people that fear or loathe god or religion, are the same people that think religion is nothing but them 'bible thumpers' from the deep south with snakes and funny dances.
gods message is a good one.
belief in god is good for societal purposes.
you can draw parallels to laws against driving while intoxicated and believing in god.
do the right thing,numbnuts.
-I will subtlety invade your psyche-
I'm torn on the subject of religion. I hate how utterly insensitive and shortsighted it can make otherwise logical and intelligent people, but on the other hand it is also responsible for most of Western civilization as we know it and some of the greatest works of charity in history.
That having been said, I will always ignore every single thing the Bible has to say. Every ounce of its parables and teachings are rooted in common sense and fundamental human compassion, things I don't need an ancient religious text to instill in me. I firmly believe that God had nothing whatsoever to do with its authoring, and therefore put about as much stock into it as I would any tale of fiction available at Barnes and Noble.
So to answer your question, no. I do not accept both science and the Bible.
Yes......fixed
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
The south....snakes and funny dances........sweet.....missed.you have been.
Ahhhhh the piano is still playing when the pastor gets up to start his sermon..haha
Right to the point.as usual.
numbnuts is that new northern nut....
Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.
Intelligent Design = when religion tries to be scientific.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Intelligent design does not have to be religious in nature, it is only a belief that this world, and everything in it, have an original designer or maker...You don't have to be religious to believe that there is a God.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Gotta qualify your statement further for me to agree
Better?
Much
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Intelligent design does not have to be religious in nature, it is only a belief that this world, and everything in it, have an original designer or maker...You don't have to be religious to believe that there is a God.
Oh I see, so aliens or the flying spaghetti monster could be the intelligent designer.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
This is a joke.
Evolution does not postulate on the creation of the universe or this planet.
Evolution does not give any mention to the origin of life (that's abiogenesis, not evolution; something you'd do well to understand the difference between).
There is no leap of faith required to understand or acknowledge evolution, because if there was then it would not be a scientific theory.
There is no factual support for a creation origin. None. Saying "well how else did it get here?" is not factual support. Not knowing is not factual support.
There is plenty of evidence for the origin of the earth as a large molten mass formed by the gravitational pull of our star. There is plenty of evidence for the concept of the Big Bang (though it is certainly not perfect and scientists as a whole generally acknowledge that there will be unknowns in regards to the origins of the universe -- this is not an excuse to slap "God did it!" into the blanks).
The one in denial here is you -- for insinuating that the two concepts are somehow equal.
Science is not perfect, no. But there is no leap of faith in science. If you have to make a leap of faith, it is not science. That's the damn principle of the whole thing.
The only way to arrive at a creation origin is through logical fallacy.
Educate yourself.
Lol...don't get me started kid...You don't want to debate me about this, you'll quickly find that you are the one that is not educated. I used to be an evolutionist...How could I not be seeing as how it's the only theory taught in public schools?
I know both sides of the debate, you want to post some details on why my post is a joke? I'll be glad to send you packing.
I find it interesting that you call me "kid." Your attempt to belittle me on basis of age when only three years separate us is amusing.
I'd also like to point out that I made multiple points, which, instead of defending against, you merely attacked me, and made some baseless claims about your understanding of the subject.
Evolution is a logical conclusion. We can observe it on the small scale through microbial analysis. We can observe it on the large scale through genetic mapping and fossils. We've even stimulated the process through selective breeding. Rejection of evolution is rejection of a blatant truth. Saying faith is required here is a cop out, a joke, and overall simply an uninformed and ignorant opinion.
Evolution does not have any mention of the origin of life, the universe, or our planet.
Divine creation is not a logical conclusion. Divine creation is a possibility, but it has nothing to do with science. God isn't falsifiable. God isn't observable (no, not just in the literal sense). They're certainly not mutually exclusive.
I'm not the kind of person to make illogical conclusions. I certainly don't deny the possibility of a god or creator. I do, however, want to make it very clear that there is a gigantic difference between a possibility and a scientific theory. Creationism is a possibility. Evolution is a scientific theory.
They are not alike.
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Wishing someone would quote my previous comment and try to debunk it......