Thank you for all the aweesome replies. I'm primarily a pve player, but I've really gotten into pvp because of AV in Wow. I'm keeping my eye on Warhammer because if Lake Wintergrasp (wotlk) doesn't pan out, I'll probably want to play a more pvp oriented game. I'm not completely thrilled with the way it sounds so far though. Your team finally works though and captures the enemy city.. and then it just resets? If it takes months and months to do this, then it would be fine.. but if you put a ton of work into beating down the enemy, and then they just lose and start over.. I dunno.. it just doesn't seem to be worth losing all the pve in wow. Thanks again for all the mature, helpful replies.
The enemy will probably be back with a vengeance..
also, at a later date, we should expect the other capitals to be added.. and we can have fun trying to sack new cities.
I wish people would stop comparing or trying to compare anything in War with AV... Av was always flawed and sucked since its release. War will probably be innovative and far more superior when it comes to creativity. Than ANYTHING in WoW.
WAR will add nothing to the Genre just another clone. People will be dissapointed as it contains all the Game killing features other recent games contain.
Raids/Universal Banks/ Poor design and cheap endgame/ Limited levels / limited world size/ dumbed down quest systems and content that need no thought or effort follow the yellow arrow now....
WAR will be no better. just glorified arena games. The current genre is dead barring a few decent releases(Sadly nothing decent has released for 4 years on my reconning). It has all become just too simple and that doesnt constitute a good game. But just a pleasant mindless wander.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I have a serious question, myself: "What the hell is 'post endgame'?" How can there be gameplay left after what has already been deemed the end of the game? Anyway, if I were to answer the question posed literally, post-endgame there is logging out, canceling your subscription, wondering why you spent two years on your ass playing a game, then making a sandwich and forgetting about such a silly thought. However, if you are simply asking what the endgame is... City sieges, controlling keeps in RvR, trying to get your RR (Renown Rank) to 80 (good luck!), high-end PvE raids, killing racial leaders when cities are captured (think uber raid boss difficulty), unlocking more ToK achievements which yield tangible rewards (tactics, etc.), mastering your chosen crafting skill, getting better gear, etc. Due to the dynamic nature of RvR, the endgame is as much fun as the effort you put into it. If you do not care about beating the other realm, you will not get as much out of it. If, however, it pisses you off when your city is captured, or when you lose a keep, well, it will be a ton of fun.
I don't know the correct term.. so I created ' post end-game'. Put it like this.. the current endgame being discussed is where you beat back the opposing side, you enter their city and kill their king. That is endgame. Now my question is " Ok, well what happens after that? How do they expand past that". What do you do once you've completed that? What is the next big goal.
In wow.. endgame was Molten Core.. there was a very distinct 'king' of MC. Once players go through MC and killed the King... Blizzard added more content... and a harder 'King' to kill... and so on and so on. I just don't see what the goal will be in Warhammer after you've captured your opponents major city and killed his king. What I keep hearing is that basically everything 'resets' and you do it again.
One guess is that they could go the easy way and add more PvE content. I know that it's not the focus of the game but it's easy to implement. And keeps people occupied.
I feel your consern, don't know if it will be fun for to long. But then again have never played anything like this. And the timeline is something like 1 month so might not get to repetetive, plus guarding your fort or taking down one may be fun. Love the idea. Let's hope NDA drops soon.
Unless they have already used up every last drop of lore, I'm certain that expansions will include new lands to explore and control in RvR.
Also, they still have 4 other cities to include. That alone should keep you busy for a while.
I don't know how they are going to do it, but I applaud them for NOT being a raiding-end-game MMO. Killing a raid boss 10 times, each time taking 4-6 hours, just for a piece of gear sounds like suckage to me.
Originally posted by Azrile In wow.. endgame was Molten Core.. there was a very distinct 'king' of MC. Once players go through MC and killed the King... Blizzard added more content... and a harder 'King' to kill... and so on and so on. I just don't see what the goal will be in Warhammer after you've captured your opponents major city and killed his king. What I keep hearing is that basically everything 'resets' and you do it again.
Not to be a wow basher but you just basicly said it yourself, in Wow the endgame is a forced raid where you kill a strong boss. Then, they just add another stronger boss and stronger dungeons for content. The reward? Slightly better equipment. If you despise raiding then your screwed.
In warhammer from what I've read, the endgame is multi-tiered, you are not forced to raid, you can defend your own kingdom or invade the ennemys. Then you end up in a "small raid" against the king. If you win, you get a couple of hard dungeons and new quests along with multiples bonuses.
The difference? Purpose for one, you know why your doing it in Warhammer, because your part of a kingdom and you need to save it and expend. In Wow? you do it for loot alone
I'm not saying that it's much better, but it is for some people like me. Plus the fact that it's mostly against other players keep things fresh and unexpected. And one of the reason I got bored with Wow in under 3 weeks was because there was only a couple of battlegrounds, War has 20 I think
In warhammer from what I've read, the endgame is multi-tiered, you are not forced to raid, you can defend your own kingdom or invade the ennemys. Then you end up in a "small raid" against the king. If you win, you get a couple of hard dungeons and new quests along with multiples bonuses. Taking the King has nothing to do with a Win. You can only go after the king after you've beaten the enemy down in the street brawl instances and beaten certain pve objectives. The king is like icing on the cake the final nail in the coffin. IT also has nothing to do with the time with which you hold the city. Your side can beat on the king as much as they want (once YOUR group has won an encounter with the king YOU can't fight him again until the next Siege but the rest of your realm can keep trying. The king is not an exclusive piece of content he's for everyone to try) until the enemy takes the city back its not just "handed over' You have to FIGHT to get it back. I keep trying to figure out where you guys are getting this information because its not true taking the King doesn't END the siege and you have to WIN first to even get to him. City captures (not the fight) can last from 12 to 24 hours the actual amount hasn't been determined but its enough so that people who log on AFTER the Siege can go tear up the City and experience the content. They want everyone to have a fair chance at trying everything in the game. The difference? Purpose for one, you know why your doing it in Warhammer, because your part of a kingdom and you need to save it and expend. In Wow? you do it for loot alone
I'm not saying that it's much better, but it is for some people like me. Plus the fact that it's mostly against other players keep things fresh and unexpected. And one of the reason I got bored with Wow in under 3 weeks was because there was only a couple of battlegrounds, War has 20 I think
Anyway I agree big time PvE raiders will NOT like WAR there's no way going around it. They're to happily catered to in games like EQ2 & WoW where in WAR they're not catered too at all they're treated as 'equal' to everyone else.
This is basically why I started the thread. I just can't get my head around how it all works. And again.. all I have is WOW to compare it to (which is probably a problem).
In Wow, you kill a boss to make yourself stronger, so you can kill the next boss that the developers add.
In War.. you kill other players to make your team stronger, so you can kill the same players easier?
This is basically why I started the thread. I just can't get my head around how it all works. And again.. all I have is WOW to compare it to (which is probably a problem). In Wow, you kill a boss to make yourself stronger, so you can kill the next boss that the developers add. In War.. you kill other players to make your team stronger, so you can kill the same players easier?
See? The selfish attitude of WoW has rubbed off on you. In WAR it's not just about yourself. You kill other players to make your team (realm) stronger, that's true. You do it so that your capital city becomes bigger and fancier, so that you gain more areas to PvE in, so that you have more keeps to siege, etc. Now on the individual level, you do get some gear so technically you might be able to kill the players easier. But it's not nearly as gear dependant as WoW, so if the player you killed before has gotten some skill, it might not be easier to kill him again, even if you've gotten better gear. Cut out the second part, the main focus of the game is realm advancement and realm pride.
To clear things up, it might seem repetitive to you because things do reset. But sacking the enemy's capital is NOT going to be a weekly thing. There's not much of a linear progression feeling as in WoW, which is what you decribed. Your goal is to siege the enemy's capital, but there's no "ultimate goal" beyond that I suppose. That's it, that's the highest achievement. Expansions might add some PvE things but they're not going to add some ulterior goal...unless Mythic surprises us.
Man trying to explain it got me a little confused too, haha.
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Ugh, please don't use that strong red anymore, my eyes hurt
I never said it meant the end, where did you get that? I only shortened my answer because I'm not an expert on all the details
I like red you can't stop me from using red. You'll just have to deal with it HEhe hehEHHEHhehe
Now anyway if you look at your post you said directly what opens up when a side WINS right after talkinga bout the King so anyone that has decent reading comprehension is going to assume right off the bat you mean that in order to win you must beat the King.
In order to WIN you must Seige & do PvP and i think some PvE but mostly PvP. THEN you get access to PQ's that give you access to the KING. So you have to WIN first to go after him in a final coup de grace.
Even when writing in short hand you have to be careful about the order & presentation of your words otherwise people who don't think the same way as you are going to misunderstand.
Comments
The enemy will probably be back with a vengeance..
also, at a later date, we should expect the other capitals to be added.. and we can have fun trying to sack new cities.
WAR will add nothing to the Genre just another clone. People will be dissapointed as it contains all the Game killing features other recent games contain.
Raids/Universal Banks/ Poor design and cheap endgame/ Limited levels / limited world size/ dumbed down quest systems and content that need no thought or effort follow the yellow arrow now....
WAR will be no better. just glorified arena games. The current genre is dead barring a few decent releases(Sadly nothing decent has released for 4 years on my reconning). It has all become just too simple and that doesnt constitute a good game. But just a pleasant mindless wander.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I don't know the correct term.. so I created ' post end-game'. Put it like this.. the current endgame being discussed is where you beat back the opposing side, you enter their city and kill their king. That is endgame. Now my question is " Ok, well what happens after that? How do they expand past that". What do you do once you've completed that? What is the next big goal.
In wow.. endgame was Molten Core.. there was a very distinct 'king' of MC. Once players go through MC and killed the King... Blizzard added more content... and a harder 'King' to kill... and so on and so on. I just don't see what the goal will be in Warhammer after you've captured your opponents major city and killed his king. What I keep hearing is that basically everything 'resets' and you do it again.
One guess is that they could go the easy way and add more PvE content. I know that it's not the focus of the game but it's easy to implement. And keeps people occupied.
I feel your consern, don't know if it will be fun for to long. But then again have never played anything like this. And the timeline is something like 1 month so might not get to repetetive, plus guarding your fort or taking down one may be fun. Love the idea. Let's hope NDA drops soon.
Unless they have already used up every last drop of lore, I'm certain that expansions will include new lands to explore and control in RvR.
Also, they still have 4 other cities to include. That alone should keep you busy for a while.
I don't know how they are going to do it, but I applaud them for NOT being a raiding-end-game MMO. Killing a raid boss 10 times, each time taking 4-6 hours, just for a piece of gear sounds like suckage to me.
Not to be a wow basher but you just basicly said it yourself, in Wow the endgame is a forced raid where you kill a strong boss. Then, they just add another stronger boss and stronger dungeons for content. The reward? Slightly better equipment. If you despise raiding then your screwed.
In warhammer from what I've read, the endgame is multi-tiered, you are not forced to raid, you can defend your own kingdom or invade the ennemys. Then you end up in a "small raid" against the king. If you win, you get a couple of hard dungeons and new quests along with multiples bonuses.
The difference? Purpose for one, you know why your doing it in Warhammer, because your part of a kingdom and you need to save it and expend. In Wow? you do it for loot alone
I'm not saying that it's much better, but it is for some people like me. Plus the fact that it's mostly against other players keep things fresh and unexpected. And one of the reason I got bored with Wow in under 3 weeks was because there was only a couple of battlegrounds, War has 20 I think
Anyway I agree big time PvE raiders will NOT like WAR there's no way going around it. They're to happily catered to in games like EQ2 & WoW where in WAR they're not catered too at all they're treated as 'equal' to everyone else.
Ugh, please don't use that strong red anymore, my eyes hurt
I never said it meant the end, where did you get that? I only shortened my answer because I'm not an expert on all the details
This is basically why I started the thread. I just can't get my head around how it all works. And again.. all I have is WOW to compare it to (which is probably a problem).
In Wow, you kill a boss to make yourself stronger, so you can kill the next boss that the developers add.
In War.. you kill other players to make your team stronger, so you can kill the same players easier?
See? The selfish attitude of WoW has rubbed off on you. In WAR it's not just about yourself. You kill other players to make your team (realm) stronger, that's true. You do it so that your capital city becomes bigger and fancier, so that you gain more areas to PvE in, so that you have more keeps to siege, etc. Now on the individual level, you do get some gear so technically you might be able to kill the players easier. But it's not nearly as gear dependant as WoW, so if the player you killed before has gotten some skill, it might not be easier to kill him again, even if you've gotten better gear. Cut out the second part, the main focus of the game is realm advancement and realm pride.
To clear things up, it might seem repetitive to you because things do reset. But sacking the enemy's capital is NOT going to be a weekly thing. There's not much of a linear progression feeling as in WoW, which is what you decribed. Your goal is to siege the enemy's capital, but there's no "ultimate goal" beyond that I suppose. That's it, that's the highest achievement. Expansions might add some PvE things but they're not going to add some ulterior goal...unless Mythic surprises us.
Man trying to explain it got me a little confused too, haha.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
hmm... yes but unlike wow there are other reasons
You kill players to gain levels, to gain ranks, to get loot, to improve the standing of your faction. For everything really. Let me put it this way
Wow :
To Level = you do quest
To get loot = you raid
Warhammer:
To level = you do whatever you want
to get loot = you do whatever you want (someone correct me if im wrong)
In action it looks like this
Wow:
Player 1 = Dude, want to kill some hordes? (or get some loot)
Player 2 = Nah, I want to get my level 40 tonight, I have to do quests
Warhammer:
Player 1 = Dude, want to destroy a keep?
Player 2 = Sure, I might get my level 40 at the same time
I like red you can't stop me from using red. You'll just have to deal with it HEhe hehEHHEHhehe
Now anyway if you look at your post you said directly what opens up when a side WINS right after talkinga bout the King so anyone that has decent reading comprehension is going to assume right off the bat you mean that in order to win you must beat the King.
In order to WIN you must Seige & do PvP and i think some PvE but mostly PvP. THEN you get access to PQ's that give you access to the KING. So you have to WIN first to go after him in a final coup de grace.
Even when writing in short hand you have to be careful about the order & presentation of your words otherwise people who don't think the same way as you are going to misunderstand.
Gl finishing both RvR and PvE end-game...especially PvE because ToK will take you years to complete and you can't do it all on any one character.
Purpose in life is not to gain things, but experience. - Rover64dd