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AoC Correspondent: Relations with Funcom
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No, there's absolutely NO doubt about that.
But since you have decided to grace the forums here, perhaps you'd like to discuss the moderation habits of some of your staff, such as Lufkin, in an open forum where players discussing moderation of your forums CANNOT be banned for it.?
Well, I hope we can help show that it does matter to us. I know you always think otherwise but that's really a challenge I know I'm willing to take.
As for your question, I never openly discuss private matters on the public. If you do have any issues then please send me a message and I will look into it (this includes wrongful suspensions too). Moderation discussion on the other hand is a very common forum rule to have. Nothing will ever be gained in discussing why a thread was moderated when everything can be solved by poking the moderator privately in a message. Nonetheless, feedback on that is also key too.
Mass deletion of threads solely because they shine a bad light on AoC or Funcom is not a private matter, since many of those poosts have been linked here before the mods had chances to delete them; so they are publically known already. I suggest you want your forums and moderation to remain a "private matter", then you better take away ALL forum access without subscription.
Thread after thread has been linked and shown here highlighting the incompetence and irrationality of your pretty boy Lufkin, and all you'll say is you don't discuss these thing publically? Then I suggest you get Lufkin and others like him out of the publics eye.
Oh, and thanks for confirming the same spin, denial, and avoidance will be used by you here as on the official forums. I'd say the need for you to be here is dwindling fast.
I'm done, I'll let your currently paying customers have the floor, now.
No, there's absolutely NO doubt about that.
But since you have decided to grace the forums here, perhaps you'd like to discuss the moderation habits of some of your staff, such as Lufkin, in an open forum where players discussing moderation of your forums CANNOT be banned for it.?
Well, I hope we can help show that it does matter to us. I know you always think otherwise but that's really a challenge I know I'm willing to take.
As for your question, I never openly discuss private matters on the public. If you do have any issues then please send me a message and I will look into it (this includes wrongful suspensions too). Moderation discussion on the other hand is a very common forum rule to have. Nothing will ever be gained in discussing why a thread was moderated when everything can be solved by poking the moderator privately in a message. Nonetheless, feedback on that is also key too.
This is just plain and untter bull. My friend who privately messaged the moderator in regards to his moderation way ended up being banned from using the forums altogther. So please do not come here and blatently lie that pming you would provide reason for moderation.
Doubts? Steps for improving or enhancing communications?
No offense but I see absolutely no reason to be optimistic about any forms of communication from FC. If the official forums have proven anything at all, it's that the devs have absolutely no desire to communicate with their clientele nor do they care to.
If they want "improved" or "enhanced" communications, they must first be communicative. And quite frankly, the spin from FC has reached new levels that I've never seen in a company before. Some of the rhetoric I've seen from FC is on par with the political system in the U.S.
You go tell the devs to talk to us directly, otherwise it's all just empty words and broken promises.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
I would post my concerns about the game.. but according to the EE interview.. I must be completely wrong and the only one experiencing it. Famine.. your company;s lies have just been too great, and too often repeated for anyone to take anything you guys say seriously.
If I were in your shoes (and I'm being completely honest here). I would simply post patch notes and then comment on why you are changing stuff. I would not ask for feedback directly (but of course you should read comments). I would not promise anything. I would do a month or two of doing that.. just showing what you are changing/adding. No hype at all.
I would get those two idiots out of the public eye. Even people who actually like the game and tolerate the bugs are getting annoyed with those two clowns acting like things are going good. At best, you have people who are tolerating the game... with luck, you can hold onto them when Warhammer launches. But those players who are tolerating the game aren't going to stick around if they think that YOU think the game is good... because that doesn't show enough desperation on your part. The problem I have with the latest interview is that as a player.. I don't feel that things are going to get fixed (becasue everything is great now!!!)
But seriously. I am long gone and would never come back. The 'fix' to the female weapon speed just shows such bad judgement that I could never trust that devopment team with my time.
Famine,
Here is my moving forward and enhanced communication, I would like my $49.99 dollars back, you can keep what I paid in taxes and shipping.
Have a great day,
-Schonk
If the upset customers/playerbase on these forums were to make a statement to FC with the wallets, i.e. cancel their accounts, I guarantee that FC will start talking about anything and everything with you all.
I'm sure some of you have stopped your subscriptions and good on you! The rest of you need to do so as well. I did. But I would be willing to come back if FC will start being honest and stop the crap they have been pulling in the forums and in the game.
I can already tell that they are being beaten down by mass cancellations to send these guys here to try and make amends. I have yet to see this kind of knee-jerk reaction from another developer yet.
However, FC is obviously still getting more money from MMO players than they should be, because Famine and co. are still refusing to be honest about what the customers are trying to say and trying to get fixed. I guess the screws need to be tightened on FC a bit more!
Dom and FC-Famine,
I am not going to talk about the quality of the game here, I am just going to talk about community relations.
I have noticed that at least last night, not every negative post was being deleted off of the Official AoC message boards. That is a good start, but much more needs to be done.
I think you guys should go farther and put up an official apology to the people that post there for treating them like crap. (not for the game itself, but for how they have been treated on the forums).
I would suggest in your apology letter to the community, that you state all posts will remain live as long as there is no swearing or personal attacks. And stand by that. The first few weeks will be tough because alot of people are VERY VERY upset, not just at the quality of the game, but how they are being treated on the forums.
It is probably way too late to do any good, but you have to start somewhere with damage control. A bit of goodwill, an end to the banning, closing of all negative posts, and general disdain that is being showed toward the customer can start the healing process. The censorship and banning has gotten people so upset that it has increased the level of animosity to new heights. A new approach to the official forums is definately needed. If you feel this is not possible. You should just shut them down, which would all but be admitting defeat.
You guys (funcom) have to understand, your official message boards is your link to the player base. That is the way people are going to percieve the company image more than any marketing, interviews, etc... What people want from a gaming company is honesty and respect. It doesn't go the opposite way. The consumer is paying the bills, and they are/feel/should be entitled to be able to speak their opinion, within reason of course. Within reason does not include silencing all critics.
You guys (Funcom) have dug yourselves a massive hole, not just with the quality of the game and the horrendous patches, but with the lack of respect that has been showed to the community at large via your own forums.
Good luck,
Gbooste
EXACTLY! I commend you for braving forums that you can't control, but unless you are willing to answer questions and concerns we have, what do you hope to accomplish here?
I already sent letters, emails, PMs regarding the exploitation of your raid content. Nothing happened. I went through the proper channels and at the end of the day you left legit players who aren't willing to cheat to win to hang out to dry! One of these guilds has been banned from its previous MMOs for cheating and exploiting *cough* Ebonlore *cough*, and nobody at Funcom seems to care. Why should I waste anymore time pleading on deaf ears?
Also are you going to answer to the mysterious Undocumented Patch Notes that you slip into every patch that often times contains massive stealth nerfs? It is honestly insulting to me as a customer that you think nobody is going to notice a 60% damage reduction among other massive things.
All of the above shows a trend of dishonestly and poor ethics. If I ran my family business the way your service is handled in Age of Conan, I would be out of business.
TwitchTV Partnered Streamer
MMORPG.com Spotlight Blog Writer
Co-Leader of Inquisition
Youtube Channel
Thanks for the feedback Ghettobooste and others, it's well appreciated on that note too.
Glen ''Famine'' Swan
Senior Assistant Community Manager - Funcom
I really dont care at this point dont think ill be going back there anytime soon.
Dom,
I appreciate your willingness to try something to help the game and community.
I don't see what the point of it is, however. If they can't glean what the game's problems are - and there are a ton - from the voluminous number of posts on FC's own forums, then FC is not only collectively blind, but stupid as well.
Seriously, the issues have been posted time and again, on this board, as well as on the official AoC board. Reading them, really reading them, is all that's necessary. The players have given the answers, FC needs to listen.
Sorry, I'm with the others on this. Having a correspondent on these boards smacks of a pitiful gesture by FC, with any recommendations being sent from us to you, to Funcom, to the trash can.
To Glen,
Exactly what training in public relations or customer service are your forum moderators either provided with, or expected to have, as they take positions that represent FC in such a public way. That's not exactly private information, is it? You seem to have a more polished manner in your communication skills, but unfortunately many of your compatriots on the AoC forums do not.
Ultimately, as someone else has already pointed out, the only way that FC is going to start really listening is hitting them where it hurts most - their profits. Unsubscribing is that only thing that will affect them, and the only thing that might get them to listen.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
This is very interesting. I ve never seen a company do this. There is so much damage done to this game/company, that i beleive for many it will never, no matter what you do bring them back. Some maybe, but i ll be on the never and , IMO anyways much better games on the horizon to go to anyways. I commend you for trying, but i don t think it will do any good at all. As an above poster said, start with an appoligy and see frm there. Oh well IMO anyways it s a losing battle, and this should have never been needed at all.
Your forum moderation defiintely is a topic of interest around here .However , It's not the only issue we want you to explain. I for one would like to know when to expect important aspects to the gameplay , Like Mid range content , the pvp/fugitive system ,Seige fixes and the fabled Legendary seige system.
With no definitive time frame given in regard to a single one of these issues , How do you expect to keep people subscibed ,Or even interested in your product ? Soon, Sometime and the Furture aren't time frames btw their guesses .This is what causes such a lack of confidence in your studio, At some point you have to start offering something of substance besides promises or hype.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Put this in your feedback....
{ Mod Edit }
So what are you going to do about this?
TwitchTV Partnered Streamer
MMORPG.com Spotlight Blog Writer
Co-Leader of Inquisition
Youtube Channel
Good luck your going to need it and an extra thick skin as well.The logic is bordering on the "swg vets"imho.
What is your physical limit?
I am certain that you folks at Funcom know well enough what the issues are. Asking people for feedback at this point (since you already have a several month plan in action) is simply meant to help people vent and attempt to create an image of "listening" to the players. Much like SOE has been doing for years on end.
Honestly it is not like you are going to have someone write something that turns out to be some earth shattering news to you. Even if that unlikely event did happen, I do not think your company is in any position to act upon any eye opening news. Your hands are plenty busy sticking fingers in the dike.
Good luck though.
Thanks for doing this, Dominisi.
Any new information that you can give us will be much better than PR filled press releases that we get right now. Anything without sugarcoating will do.
A good place to start. Explain this A GM cybors with a player How did this happen? Do you even train your employees?
You failed to mention that you won't respond to private messages about moderation either. I was banned with a "no reason specified" and have yet to get an explanation though I've emailed support and pmed you several times. I'm not the only one who has had that experience with your customer service either.
At any rate I do want to see better communication from FC and to improve the game to a point where I feel it's worth my $15 again. You could make a lot of headway by simply answering the following:
1.) Why are fixes like the female animation speed given to paying customers in piece-meal causing glaring bugs and imbalances? You guys have done this since day one with everything from class fixes to ding sounds.
2.) Why is the test-live server not getting issues that are making it to the production server like the Villas bug or gem imbalance? Or are they getting there but not being caught by your paid QA and the players?
3.) When will explanation on skills be released to the public? You guys have been dangling that carrot for months.
4.) Why are you not tracking bugs in one sticky so that new players will know what has been submitted already?
5.) Will you guys be merging servers?
That's a very good point, governments use this technique to "burn up" energy and harsh feelings so that the masses think they're making a difference when the outlet is only provided to create the illusion of fairness, openness, and transparency.
The only problem with using this technique is that it has to be a captive audience in order for it to work, which a software company is not. We choose to participate if we want to, we're not forced to by being a taxpayer.
Until devs get their hands dirty, it's all just a circus sideshow as they try to patch things long enough for accounts to expire and all the while hoping that enough new customers sign up to keep the half-broken machine sputtering along for as long as possible.
The more game companies choose this route, the more transparent it will be to people and in turn, less and less customers will be willing to fork over hard earned money to be abused.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Ok you asked for some constructive feedback... So I'm going to say why I hit /cancel and try to do it in a logical/constructive way.. without flames etc or *drama* (this isn't TNT after all).
First off I finally decided to play a Necromancer when the game went live. I saw a LOT of negative feedback on the class but *I* enjoyed it.
My only real issue was the power cost of spells during Tier advancement. This was easily solved by just using Tier 1 spells. As increased Tiers offered almost no benefit but cost a lot more power.
Of course this removed the feeling of *advancing* as you leveled but I liked the class still.
When Funcom fixed the power costs I was very happy. The damage etc was also incrased on the higher tiers.. all was well.. and there was much rejoicing.
Then the next thing I see is that damage is going to be increased... oh no... I started having visions of my beloved warlock in WoW. I loved that class at launch and when it was made "over powered" and flavor of the month I never played it again.
So I actually stopped playing my Necro.. it was like deja vu.
I heard the rumors of having more pets at lower levels etc.. it just all sounded bad.
Then suddenly necro damaged was nerfed (majorly) as they were now deemed a pet class (with pets that did almost no damage after the changes as well).
I did log in after this and my level 60+ spells were hitting for less than when I was using Tier 1 spells due to the power issue at the start of this post.
Now the point of this ramble?
It really seemed that there was no direction, no thought process to changes, no testing... and somebody had absolutely no clue what they were doing.
I'm not trying to label anyone as this (see last sentence). I am just saying this is the feeling that started to come into my mind. This more or less was happening acrossed all the classes.. and some of the other changes really just made this seem to be the case.
I've been playing MMO's since Ultima Online (unless you want to call beta testing habitat on quantum link an MMO.. which some do I guess). I've been on this ride many times and really don't want to do it anymore.
I'm not sure how they can fix this... but I would be more than willing to come back to AoC IF..
1) I see changes in a positive way for the players.
2) The changes I see make sense
3) There seems to be a plan with some logical thought put behind it.. that is stated to the players AND stuck to.
At the end of the day.. players pay the bills.. not NPC's... Nerf and Balance are two words that pretty much result in my hitting "cancel" every time.
And if you read this ramble.. you know I was happy with my necro to begin with.. I never wanted it to be over powered.. but many changes that were made... left me feeling like I was weaker than the day I rolled onto Tortage... and that is NOT feeling like I have adanced.
Anyway.. thanks for posting (that's Domi AND Famine...) nobody should be angry with either of you.. I'm a game player.. I want EVERY game to be fun and awesome.. it doesn't do me any good for a game to fail or not be as good as it could be... That's what I wanted AoC to be.. a great/fun product...
The development direction or feeling that there was no direction at all... is a major barrier for me at this time.
Honestly, I think MMORPG should just make a new forum called "AoC Burn Victims" and set it up just like the SWG Vet haven.
FC has no intention of listening to anything we here at MMORPG have to say, hell they can't even listen to the people who pay their bills.
Players will not get a straight answer to any question nor anything that resembles change to AoC.
I don't even know why threads are made on this matter.
Open up and new rant forum in AoC community, and watch the hatred fly for years to come.
Hell we can even team up with the SWG Vet community once a year and have some kick ass party/convention.
We can call it Retardevcon.
That will work! See you all at RetardevCON 09!
(see what I did there I merged retard and dev and stuck con on the end... little cheesy but it will work for now... It works for Blizzard and Comics it can work for Retarded Devs also!)
You failed to mention that you won't respond to private messages about moderation either. I was banned with a "no reason specified" and have yet to get an explanation though I've emailed support and pmed you several times. I'm not the only one who has had that experience with your customer service either.
At any rate I do want to see better communication from FC and to improve the game to a point where I feel it's worth my $15 again. You could make a lot of headway by simply answering the following:
1.) Why are fixes like the female animation speed given to paying customers in piece-meal causing glaring bugs and imbalances? You guys have done this since day one with everything from class fixes to ding sounds.
2.) Why is the test-live server not getting issues that are making it to the production server like the Villas bug or gem imbalance? Or are they getting there but not being caught by your paid QA and the players?
3.) When will explanation on skills be released to the public? You guys have been dangling that carrot for months.
4.) Why are you not tracking bugs in one sticky so that new players will know what has been submitted already?
5.) Will you guys be merging servers?
That's a great start!
1) The animation issues were not intended of course. It's very tricky to go back in and resolve it but we were set out to fix any imbalance there that was shown. We have said many times before that if there is an imbalance aka BUG then we would fix it. However on the other hand we do need to increase the communication on such things more and more. As you might of seen, we have been adding more detail patch notes on what's coming in and why. We will be improving that step more and more.
2) Simple answer, we can't address everything in one update. This is something we will also be improving on the testlive community. We have a new testlive coordinator in place now (recent) that will help ensure those get attention. I will also be heading over to help out with ensuring that those get directed to the developer more than before.
3) We will be going over the top concerns and bugs reported in the official community soon. This will relate to help explain the feats and skills mentioned above. This is also something I want to convey to Dom here as well. So reports that come in on this being bugged or is this working as it was designed can be filtered to not only the official community but also communities like MMORPG.
4) There are actually a big thread on these now. I have replied to it a few times with QA updates. You can find it in the sticky thread on top threads of concern. It should be getting an update here pretty soon.
5) Merging servers is something I have no information on now. Stuff of that nature will be mentioned to all in a announcement however.
Thanks,
Glen ''Famine'' Swan
Senior Assistant Community Manager - Funcom
Hah Famine. You where utterly worthless in AO's forums and you aint more than an annoying pr-speck in this one. You will get ripped apart trying your usual dribble around here as the mmorpg.com forum users are merciless in their critique.
This is AO all over again. Back when AO was in bughell and just recently released, your mods cleaned the official forums for any negative posts/threads made and mass banned users from it. Seems Funcom haven't learned a thing after AO.
---
Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
Thank you! Answers 2 - 5 are decent. You completely side stepped question 1 though. Why is your patching policy allowing "half fixes" to get into the game causing grief for players until the next patch? Just because you are telling us that you're doing half the fixes doesn't actually make it right.
In almost every MMO I've played(the good ones) fixes are rolled in as a complete package rather than being inserted bit by bit over 4 weeks. It's sloppy...