Marketing & Dangerous Territory

gamaray · August 2008

As a big fan of MMORPG and all the help they've given me when looking for quality data on a game title, they're policing of the forums and new relationship with Funcom is disturbing.

I'm still a subscriber to AOC, I'm still a gamer looking forward to an upcoming gaming title, still looking at past game titles. Are you now contracted to introduce and manipulate these forums for the client?

If you received an email, or just caught wind of your volunteer's difficulty with a frustrated AOC customer base. Did you then decide to come clean up the mess, delete and micromanage a thread or threads? One and done style?

Is "Game Correspondent" in the contract now? Does their capacity allow them to inject opinion and engage in discourse? Will they police the community? Because it just happened.

Coming in and correcting your demographic is bad mojo, as well as an advertising no-no they try to teach you while pursuing a marketing degree. At least at a decent University.

Aren't you happy this new strategy is off to a good start? Contacting management and asking all those questions, and looking for clarity?

This new strategy will obligate you to manipulate and alter the true pulse of the community.

This forum, while not exemplary, has been a community far more polished than this titles Official forums. Now, two months since launch, multiple staff writers including managers have introduced themselves and begun to alter and police.

This AOC forum was an accurate gauge of the titles perception within the MMO community. These forums have had somewhat of a safe haven or off limits from the gaming corp. advertising campaign or "homepage". Is the homepage and this titles dedicated pages not enough? Are the forums under contract too?

Funcom representatives are now present. So what's it going to be?

It's reached a crossroads and "buyer beware" is heading towards "we don't care".

Very dangerous to the consumers. Rather than delete, just make it known now. Are the forums under contract?

Qwelluis · August 2008

Ya know...I was just reading a couple threads and refreshed to general and thought the same thing. About the new pressence of AOC representatives, the influx and participation of staff writers, management included.

The really cool thing about these forums, at least what I perceived, was similar to your safe haven thing. Always thought this was free of the "Official" advertising. We tee off on one another, argue and label one another..troll, fanboy or whatnot.

At the end of the day, when the smoke clears..we're all consumers, we're all fellow gamers who make up the server population on these titles.

They're marketing and our ignorance tend to lead us into a division, where we end up representing titles for the gaming companies.

I too am interested..where are we headed here? We fight amugst ourselves, are we now combating an extended marketing campaign here. Has some sort of adjustment with these sites and the corps been done?

Cause this forum just received one and FC reps have appeared..very dubious stuff..we'll see I reckon

Edit.. Also, that FC Correspondent avatar thing. If they start a thread, inject themselves into one started by a regular..they're on their own, open prey, not to be saved by managment or staff writers.

You want to carry the FC flag and take a position for or against a participants opinion? Well, shed your frail skin, man up and keep it here, in house of sorts. Hopefully they'll do so and let the merits of the product that's being promoted stand on it's own..Without being saved by the bell..whithout managment, fellow staff writers and even a FC forum moderator coming to the rescue...Sad indeed..very perplexed by this stratigy.

Mathos · August 2008

time will tell

Die_Scream · August 2008

Are you saying we have FC moles in our midst? I thought Domenisi was just a regulare poster who applied for, and got the correspondent job.

Has there been any proof of infiltration by the FC operatives?

AmazingAvery · August 2008

Originally posted by gamaray

As a big fan of MMORPG and all the help they've given me when looking for quality data on a game title, they're policing of the forums and new relationship with Funcom is disturbing.
I'm still a subscriber to AOC, I'm still a gamer looking forward to an upcoming gaming title, still looking at past game titles. Are you now contracted to introduce and manipulate these forums for the client?
If you received an email, or just caught wind of your volunteer's difficulty with a frustrated AOC customer base. Did you then decide to come clean up the mess, delete and micromanage a thread or threads? One and done style?
Is "Game Correspondent" in the contract now? Does their capacity allow them to inject opinion and engage in discourse? Will they police the community? Because it just happened.
Coming in and correcting your demographic is bad mojo, as well as an advertising no-no they try to teach you while pursuing a marketing degree. At least at a decent University.
Aren't you happy this new strategy is off to a good start? Contacting management and asking all those questions, and looking for clarity?
This new strategy will obligate you to manipulate and alter the true pulse of the community.
This forum, while not exemplary, has been a community far more polished than this titles Official forums. Now, two months since launch, multiple staff writers including managers have introduced themselves and begun to alter and police.
This AOC forum was an accurate gauge of the titles perception within the MMO community. These forums have had somewhat of a safe haven or off limits from the gaming corp. advertising campaign or "homepage". Is the homepage and this titles dedicated pages not enough? Are the forums under contract too?
Funcom representatives are now present. So what's it going to be?
It's reached a crossroads and "buyer beware" is heading towards "we don't care".
Very dangerous to the consumers. Rather than delete, just make it known now. Are the forums under contract?

Just a couple of points here:

Funcom have had a presence on the forums here with regards to AoC for over a year now and also more recently a blog pre launch.

There is no "new" relantionship or Funcom policing.

Believe it or not.... many Funcom employee's read these fourms from all development area's. There is no modification by any Funcom employee, apart to edit one's own post, from one's wish to make one of course.

There is no "contract", "micromanage", "manipulation", nor jurisdiction or policing of threads here by Funcom or volunteer "In game correspondents".

The enforcement of how a thread goes is detirmined by the "report" tool and the moderators of mmorpg.com

Funcom employee's have posted here of their own free will before in the past - this is nothing new.

I think you are looking for something that is not there and reading too much into 2 locked threads today.

If you enjoy these forums for the relaxed approach and gauge of the community in total with regards to Age of Conan, I invite you to still stick around and see what happens.

I don't think anything has changed with the appointment of "In Game correspondents" infact if people really want to see whats going on with Age of Conan, these forums will continue to provide the reader with even more elaborate and interesting topics for discussion. Not to mention periodic main articles giving rise for discussion and current events for the interested party to catch up on game news in Age of Conan, whether your a current subscriber or generally interested. All of this is already here from the current regulars here, "In Game Correspondents" are just here to provide additional ongoing topics about the game they play.

Die_Scream · August 2008

Although I completely disagree with you Amazing Avery in almost everything regarding AoC and FC, that was a good post.

Any MMO company would be fools not to have people scanning game forums on a regular basis to guage word of mouth. Just makes sense.

Vesavius · August 2008

Shills have existed on this site for a long long time, some paid, some just allowed inside access to testing etc in return for their loyalty to Funcom (and other companies).

At least FC are now being open about their sponsored official mouthpieces, though make no mistake tht the others are still here.

Unfinished · August 2008

Grasping at straws at this point, FunCom needs to realize the perception of them is based on their actions. If they want some good will, they better learn how to show some.

Silly to come here trying to put out fires, when they have more than they can handle on their own boards.

AranStormah · August 2008

Forums are only worth as much as their freedom of speech. That's what's made this site so popular and worth visiting ahead of official forums for sake of player opinions.

Granted, the number of sore, non-subscribing vets here will always paint certain MMOs as darker than they usually are, but that's something most of the regulars are aware of. It's when you read the story from both sides of the spectrum that you get a proper sense of the game.

Censorship has no place here outside of eliminating personal attacks or real life frauds and such.

Xasapis · August 2008

I really don't see what the OP is talking about. Am I blind or he sees things that are not there?

What I'm trying to say is that I haven't noticed a change in how these forums operate. The only visible difference is the name of the game that is smacked the most. It seems that the game is currently AoC. Give it a couple months and the tides of hate will shift to a fresh target.

Imjin · August 2008

Originally posted by AmazingAvery

Originally posted by gamaray

As a big fan of MMORPG and all the help they've given me when looking for quality data on a game title, they're policing of the forums and new relationship with Funcom is disturbing.
I'm still a subscriber to AOC, I'm still a gamer looking forward to an upcoming gaming title, still looking at past game titles. Are you now contracted to introduce and manipulate these forums for the client?
If you received an email, or just caught wind of your volunteer's difficulty with a frustrated AOC customer base. Did you then decide to come clean up the mess, delete and micromanage a thread or threads? One and done style?
Is "Game Correspondent" in the contract now? Does their capacity allow them to inject opinion and engage in discourse? Will they police the community? Because it just happened.
Coming in and correcting your demographic is bad mojo, as well as an advertising no-no they try to teach you while pursuing a marketing degree. At least at a decent University.
Aren't you happy this new strategy is off to a good start? Contacting management and asking all those questions, and looking for clarity?
This new strategy will obligate you to manipulate and alter the true pulse of the community.
This forum, while not exemplary, has been a community far more polished than this titles Official forums. Now, two months since launch, multiple staff writers including managers have introduced themselves and begun to alter and police.
This AOC forum was an accurate gauge of the titles perception within the MMO community. These forums have had somewhat of a safe haven or off limits from the gaming corp. advertising campaign or "homepage". Is the homepage and this titles dedicated pages not enough? Are the forums under contract too?
Funcom representatives are now present. So what's it going to be?
It's reached a crossroads and "buyer beware" is heading towards "we don't care".
Very dangerous to the consumers. Rather than delete, just make it known now. Are the forums under contract?

Just a couple of points here:

Funcom have had a presence on the forums here with regards to AoC for over a year now and also more recently a blog pre launch.

There is no "new" relantionship or Funcom policing.

Believe it or not.... many Funcom employee's read these fourms from all development area's. There is no modification by any Funcom employee, apart to edit one's own post, from one's wish to make one of course.

There is no "contract", "micromanage", "manipulation", nor jurisdiction or policing of threads here by Funcom or volunteer "In game correspondents".

The enforcement of how a thread goes is detirmined by the "report" tool and the moderators of mmorpg.com

Funcom employee's have posted here of their own free will before in the past - this is nothing new.

I think you are looking for something that is not there and reading too much into 2 locked threads today.

If you enjoy these forums for the relaxed approach and gauge of the community in total with regards to Age of Conan, I invite you to still stick around and see what happens.

I don't think anything has changed with the appointment of "In Game correspondents" infact if people really want to see whats going on with Age of Conan, these forums will continue to provide the reader with even more elaborate and interesting topics for discussion. Not to mention periodic main articles giving rise for discussion and current events for the interested party to catch up on game news in Age of Conan, whether your a current subscriber or generally interested. All of this is already here from the current regulars here, "In Game Correspondents" are just here to provide additional ongoing topics about the game they play.

I am constantly amazed by your inside information. Does it come from "Knowing" , wishing or just a byproduct of the puppy dog getting a bone tossed his way?

Xasapis · August 2008

Would you find it weird if posts resorting to personal attacks and insults disappear? I personally call it good moderation.

Buccaneer · August 2008

Originally posted by Xasapis

I really don't see what the OP is talking about. Am I blind or he sees things that are not there?
What I'm trying to say is that I haven't noticed a change in how these forums operate. The only visible difference is the name of the game that is smacked the most. It seems that the game is currently AoC. Give it a couple months and the tides of hate will shift to a fresh target.

I have to agree. The only thing I've seen recently is two locked threads. One turned into a flamefest and needed locking and the other was an I'm sorry post for the original locked thread. Amazing how the conspiracy theories come out just because a FC employee posts here.

Rudydog · August 2008

I truely dont think mmorpg would stoop to such lengths for advertising? Surely not.... surely...

Would truely be a sad day as i have trusted this website for such a long time with how independent the reviews are with the cross culture of giving the discerning public its own chance to rate products alongside mmorpg's. Always good to compare both points of view.

Must admit it feels somewhat weird having correspondents in the forum channel. Woudnt they be better left to the general news/reporting section and of the website?

Interesting take on the open forums side of things, just hope it doesnt boil down to some sort of weird sponsorship deal.

Time will tell, i put my trust in the guys at mmorpg where im sure their integrity is worth much more than any ad campaign.

bcrankshaw · August 2008

I really think some people are missing the big picture here .The fact that Funcom is investing time in a presence on MMORPG tells us 2 things

1.They care what the people say on this forum

2.They realize they need to do some serious marketing on the issues that most of the community has around AOC

Either reason is a good thing ,I think that at least Funcom is looking at ways they can improve the game and the perception.It doesn't matter if Avery or Dom or whoever works or doesn't work for Funcom.At least here we can engage in debate with people and raise constructive complaints without being banned .I say this is the perfect forum for this type of debate .I firmly believe MMORPG is neutral in this whole AOC representation and is merely facilitating peoples views both good and bad

Later

Arthousesig · August 2008

Originally posted by bcrankshaw

I really think some people are missing the big picture here .The fact that Funcom is investing time in a presence on MMORPG tells us 2 things
1.They care what the people say on this forum
2.They realize they need to do some serious marketing on the issues that most of the community has around AOC
Either reason is a good thing ,I think that at least Funcom is looking at ways they can improve the game and the perception.It doesn't matter if Avery or Dom or whoever works or doesn't work for Funcom.At least here we can engage in debate with people and raise constructive complaints without being banned .I say this is the perfect forum for this type of debate .I firmly believe MMORPG is neutral in this whole AOC representation and is merely facilitating peoples views both good and bad
Later

I would agree with this, but they have been censoring any negative feedback from players on their own US and EU boards.

So they're not here to "discuss the game" or they would be doing that on their own forums - they're just here to do PR

bcrankshaw · August 2008

Originally posted by Arthousesig

Originally posted by bcrankshaw

I really think some people are missing the big picture here .The fact that Funcom is investing time in a presence on MMORPG tells us 2 things
1.They care what the people say on this forum
2.They realize they need to do some serious marketing on the issues that most of the community has around AOC
Either reason is a good thing ,I think that at least Funcom is looking at ways they can improve the game and the perception.It doesn't matter if Avery or Dom or whoever works or doesn't work for Funcom.At least here we can engage in debate with people and raise constructive complaints without being banned .I say this is the perfect forum for this type of debate .I firmly believe MMORPG is neutral in this whole AOC representation and is merely facilitating peoples views both good and bad
Later

I would agree with this, but they have been censoring any negative feedback from players on their own US and EU boards.

So they're not here to "discuss the game" or they would be doing that on their own forums - they're just here to do PR

Okay Arth I agree Funcom on there own boards are allowing Mods to unnecessarily ban posts they don't like ..however these aren't there boards .So here the guys who represent Funcom are doing it with the standing that there will be no unreasonable censorship.I think they want to engage in debate ...I still think its a positive step in the right direction.Maybe from this the message will filter back to official Funcom boards about how unhappy people are about the way Mods are treating paying customers .Surly this is a good step ?

Unknown · August 2008

Originally posted by Buccaneer

Originally posted by Xasapis

I really don't see what the OP is talking about. Am I blind or he sees things that are not there?
What I'm trying to say is that I haven't noticed a change in how these forums operate. The only visible difference is the name of the game that is smacked the most. It seems that the game is currently AoC. Give it a couple months and the tides of hate will shift to a fresh target.

I have to agree. The only thing I've seen recently is two locked threads. One turned into a flamefest and needed locking and the other was an I'm sorry post for the original locked thread. Amazing how the conspiracy theories come out just because a FC employee posts here.

Look its logically impossible to prove a negative statement.

So there is no reason not to believe this isn't a conspiracy ...

Sabotagex · August 2008

OP's probably pissed that they came and chopped up a couple threads and gave a short lived transformation to the forums. Which is somewhat true, I see a few threads that got whacked up. Nice gems in them as well. Hit refresh, so their gone now..

I've oft wondered if the forums were under the advertising umbrella.."Officially" And I agree, if not now, they will be in the near future. Asking to have that question answered is bold. The staff, fc peeps and management coming in to re-adjust, correct and explain things should have been avoided, perhaps more training and experienced personnel are required before unleashing FC reps in the forums, or injecting themselves into legitimate discussion.

Compelling thread and I've enjoyed reading so far, hope it stays on point.

Originally posted by Gamaray

I'll try to make it terse.

If we're to calculate why these two avatars have arrived, it's fairly simple to deduce that someone void of critical thinking skills at Funcom tossed this inept idea during a meeting, perhaps the cubicle variety? Although, unclear if our beloved MMORPG.COM was informed prior to their arrival, to iron out some pseudo board rules and not complicate their advertising contract.

It's certainly not some backdoor unauthorized tour through this advertising site message board. Since the first avatar already disclosed the "doorway to developer" message to be delivered to us."Corrospondant" must be evaluated as a Funcom representative. For now at least.

These two Funcom Avatars are not here to be friends, nor to make our existing AOC experience a good one. It has only one objective and that is to reinforce the product to persuade the potential consumers that visit here. It's really a feeble attempt that borders embarrassment.

Needless to say, we're headed into some deceptive marketing tactics that the consumer will not benefit from and advertising sites will be forced to adopt.

It's often joked that a particular avatar is acting as an agent for a gaming title, with it's sole purpose to persuade and attract the consumer to their product. Although the false avatar campaigns have taken place, you can expect them to become more prominent, more aggressive and far more polished then ever before.

The strategy that is being discussed includes, false avatars that engage in scripted discussion on consumer message boards. These include multiple avatar personalities that will create, post and engage in a positive, constructive, reassuring and persuasive script, with it's sole purpose to attract the consumer.

The only loser, as this type of marketing escalates, is us....the Consumer. For an existing advertising site to allow, introduce or welcome their client into their forums should be considered an error. Unless of course, it's acting as an extension of their current advertising contract. Sadly, the contracts will soon, within the next fiscal year, include such an option. What does this mean for us gaming geeks that enjoy discourse here, rather than the titles Official Forums? We lose

These gaming sites are exiting infancy and approaching their pubescent stages, as they mature we will get more data on title releases and we'll enjoy more traffic on the message boards. It will, without question, come at a price for us gamers. We'll either have to be (monetarily) subscribed or be completely dipped into a sea of marketing deception. Very very curious as to which tactic or strategy is adopted, because it is quite compelling.
We've got one avatar, a moderator on a poorly moderated and formatted forum. Who's focus and performance could very well be evaluated as poor, now engaged on another forum, in what only can be identified taking an argumentative and aggressive stance towards existing and potential consumers here. The calculation for it's existence here is academic and it's focus should be it's official site and duty, where existing customers are neglected. Donning corporate colors is ultra sad.

The (OP) first avatar, now claiming to be the doorway to the developers, while taking the role of a martyr, should now be scrapped. Forget the internet credibility myth and scrap that avatar, make another and be the warrior optimist and never flinch in that role.

Both, unaware or refusing to acknowledge the unending power of humility their posts should be exhibiting. They're simply whipping boys at this point, targets of a frustrated player base. Something that should have been calculated a little deeper before their introduction. Two avatars reduced to fodder.

Funcom is the gift that keeps on giving..The entertainment level continues to rise with each blunder.

gamaray · August 2008

Avery, your points were not parallel to the post you quoted. No where was it inferred that Funcom will ever moderate these forums directly. The introduction of game correspondents constitutes a new approach and new strategy here.

Your privy to the advertising sites and their clients contractual agreements? Your familiar with the scripted message board avatars and the situation it places both parties in? Speculation aside..Yes or no?

Yes, gaming companies have and will always try to obtain the pulse of the community by visiting forums. Covert participation exists, where the marketing and advertising extends onto the consumer forums.

Gaming/MMORPG brethren,

I'll start with the obvious and pardon me for doing so. I'm sure many missed the midnight landscape change last night.

We're visitors and participants on this advertising sites message board, where existing/potential subscribers engage one another. Nothing could be more obvious, yes?

What isn't transparent for the posters and readers is whether all the avatars that engage one another are independent consumers. Biased opinion or assertion (fanboy and troll labels aside). We're all here, out of the reach of the gaming company policy in regards to criticism and review.

Yes, a contract exists between MMORPG and the gaming companies. My question was specific and speculation by fellow board members wasn't my intent. Are the message boards under the advertising contract. Does MMORPG allow gaming company false avatars to engage us here? To alter and misrepresent the landscape through participation. If not, I'm sure clauses exist that either prohibit or limit participation and language. If not that either, it will change and quite soon.

The tactic of false avatars that extend beyond the scope of their respective advertising agreement exists. This is an issue that will be addressed very soon by both parties. It's a situation that continues to escalate. It's also delectate in nature because of all the scenarios that manifest from such a practice.

If MMORPG discovers a gaming company operating false avatars within it's community, operating outside of the contractual agreement. What should be their action? What route is taken to admonish? Delete and ban only?

The gaming sites would lose and are currently losing revenue if they allowed this practice.

To suggest "gaming correspondent" isn't new and MMORPG doesn't have a ruleset. The correspondent avatar has introduced itself to the community...that Is new. It's participation has attracted staff writers, managing editor and a Funcom moderator already. Views and retort are deleted, discussions locked.

When a visitor asks "How is a particular game"? "Should I buy this particular game"? It's nice to think the responses are legitimate, independent board members. It's also nice to think the OP is an individual consumer, not some scripted inquiry. Because some are, with an entire thread scripted with a few innocent posters sprinkled in.

Gotta cut this off for a meeting..I'm only bringing this up because a family member operates a marketing firm that utilizes this tactic for different consumer products. Not gaming product...YET. But future clients are on the horizon. With a call I can expound on the entire message board marketing campaigns for the future, without revealing the provider or client.

I'm not mad, nor outraged. This practice is expected, I'm simply curious. And I did find the entire introduction, response and route a few threads took disturbing. The Funcom insertion onto the forums and the lack of focus and quality on their own "Official" forums and the humiliating nature of their strategy, entertaining.

MoLoK_ · August 2008

Grats to the new title Blacksac, sorry, Avery! You had one before too. It was: "Funcom's mmorpg.com correspondant". I have known for some time that you get paid by Funcom, not in cash, but you get paid in perks, inside information, probably a free subscription, they will invite you to have a preview at the expansion in 2010 etc. Its really a no-brainer.

Smart now to go out and be semi-official but with a twist! You represent this page and not Funcom! I admire you for that move, one of the smartest you could have made.

The fact that Funcom is trying to control this page (not with mods but with information) is just another sign of them being DESPERATE for subs. You think Famine would post here if things were going well for AoC?

Theocritus · August 2008

As soon as Warhammer launches no one will even remember AoC........It will eventually end up in the bad game graveyard with Dark and Light, Fury, Horizons, Hellgate:London, etc etc etc

AmazingAvery · August 2008

Originally posted by Imjin

Originally posted by AmazingAvery

Originally posted by gamaray

As a big fan of MMORPG and all the help they've given me when looking for quality data on a game title, they're policing of the forums and new relationship with Funcom is disturbing.
I'm still a subscriber to AOC, I'm still a gamer looking forward to an upcoming gaming title, still looking at past game titles. Are you now contracted to introduce and manipulate these forums for the client?
If you received an email, or just caught wind of your volunteer's difficulty with a frustrated AOC customer base. Did you then decide to come clean up the mess, delete and micromanage a thread or threads? One and done style?
Is "Game Correspondent" in the contract now? Does their capacity allow them to inject opinion and engage in discourse? Will they police the community? Because it just happened.
Coming in and correcting your demographic is bad mojo, as well as an advertising no-no they try to teach you while pursuing a marketing degree. At least at a decent University.
Aren't you happy this new strategy is off to a good start? Contacting management and asking all those questions, and looking for clarity?
This new strategy will obligate you to manipulate and alter the true pulse of the community.
This forum, while not exemplary, has been a community far more polished than this titles Official forums. Now, two months since launch, multiple staff writers including managers have introduced themselves and begun to alter and police.
This AOC forum was an accurate gauge of the titles perception within the MMO community. These forums have had somewhat of a safe haven or off limits from the gaming corp. advertising campaign or "homepage". Is the homepage and this titles dedicated pages not enough? Are the forums under contract too?
Funcom representatives are now present. So what's it going to be?
It's reached a crossroads and "buyer beware" is heading towards "we don't care".
Very dangerous to the consumers. Rather than delete, just make it known now. Are the forums under contract?