Age of Conan needs to be taken very delicately. A lot of people feel that the developers lied and were pretty much mischevious about a lot of things. Rather it remains true or not is open for debate but the fact is a LOT of people are bitter against funcom.
I can't think of many games that don't have a trove of angy people claiming they have been lied to and nearly had their lives destroyed by the "evil developers." We really see this with almost every single game that launches and is covered here. I have been here a long time and I can tell you it is the same pattern, over and over and over.
Again, Avery is just another community member here, he has no special privledges and when he posts - it is not part of the correspondence program. We might just do away with the special titles to end the confusion. The main reason we had the titles is so that when they posted in their own comment threads on their articles you would know the author was replying to your questsions. It was also our hope that these correspondents might become some kind of "mentor" for the game they represent helping out new players with questions and such. We were not looking to have them hunted down like witches.
I mean, don't you think that 100 other hardcore fans or "fanbois" have posted false or stretched information on this website to get people to play their favorite game? Do you expect MMORPG.com to fact check everyones posts and ban people who post false information?
If you ban people who call them on it then I expect you to ban people who instigate as well.
You know that in cases of Assault there are special circumstances for provoking the assault with various sorts of speech?
This is not that different. Yet if someone comes in and lies you will ban the people who flame instead of the person who instigated it. Yet they are both culpable.
If someone comes in and posts false information and then gets a bunch of people riled up, aren't they trolling? Aren't trolls sometimes banned?
Are you really surprised that people are going after him after multiple PR trolls? This isn't random you know.
Also I don't agree with you; AoC is a special case. While you are correct about the cycle. I think that AoC really does come extremely close to a real scam in many ways. Whereas the other games are generally a case poorly managed expectations. Also there have been a couple cases that games really were dishonest, Mourning for example. I consider AoC almost as bad as Mourning myself. Dismissing it out of hand simply because some people regularly get hysterical is actually doing the same thing they do.
Do you expect MMORPG.com to fact check everyones posts and ban people who post false information?
I do expect mmorpg.com to fact check, before or if questions arise - after, all information posted by official mmorpg.com writers/editors/admins/game corr's.
And yes I do mean if Fireball does 10002 damage or 1002 damage in your spellguide.
- if Boss X is immune to fire and not frost as stated in the dungeonguide.
- if Server Y, due to the success of the game, is suddenly FULL or if it is not in your serverguide.
- if Feature Z in the game is working as advertised by the devs or not in your FAQ.
Correspondents are not official staff members. They are fans and regular site members like you that we ask to contribute articles to give resources to players. When they post in the forums it is not part of their role as a correspondent.
I'm not sure how to be more clear on that.
Yes, we do want only facts in the articles they submit to us - a guide is useless if it is not accurate of course. But what these users post in the boards is their business, and we are not going to follow them around and police their comments just because they contribute to our correspondents program.
Yeah I know, but its still confusing. They post as members in some parts of the forums and as corr's in another part. They have an "official"-looking title and avatar.
Maybe they could have these titles and avatars only when they post their guides and in the comment-threads about their articles?
"Yes, we do want only facts in the articles they submit to us - a guide is useless if it is not accurate of course."
To be fair i've only read the one AoC-guide so far. The one about the upcoming pvp-changes. A little more than "only facts" in that one But I know its a new feature here and things will change as time goes by so I wont bash around on that specific article.
I think the idea of having a game correspondent is fine. However, so far the choice for AoC in Dom doesn't seem to be a good fit.
He may be a very nice guy, who knows, but his grammar, spelling, and overall attitude on the forums is a far cry from someone I would personally want representing my site. Like I said, he is probably a very nice person but he does not seem to be right for the position he is in. I am basing this on his numerous posts on this forum.
Call me crazy or nuts, but every thread Ive read that was started by a Game Corresponder gets locked. It seems like if someone reacts negatively to a game correspondent, the thread gets lock. I don't know...I would suggest maybe some training for those in the new positions? Maybe? Some suggestions.....well...one really BE NEUTRAL. If a game correspodent whips out "shady" stuff that is a advertisement for the game...that is not corresponding. That is call Advertisement. To be a successful correspondent you need to provide factual information about the game (not just AoC...but any game....I just say it here since people are lock happy here a lot) and to provide factual information about the game. You cannot be a successful Game Correspondent if you are
A Fanboi A Griever
You have to be in the middle. Neutral. Your job is to provide news concerning the game and be a support catalyst for ingame walk throughs, etc. Not to promote Funcom. If one acts like a PR for a very "touchy subject of AoC" then you're going to get flames. If you are neutral and deliver factual information and helpful information, you wont get flamed. Just a thought.
This coming from an obvious Political shill. I mean do you really think your mad plan to have Cobra Commander take over the US executive branch will really work? What kind of nefarious plot is this a part of to get him elected. Are you trying to start some kind of new cobra political party with this?
Note: I am joking. Don't ban me for calling him a shill.
well the thing about being a political shill is that you would know the game better then anyone. would have the best grasp on telling the public what to believe as the truth. so them coming here to call out a lesser shill on his amateur games is quite welcome in my books.
Call me crazy or nuts, but every thread Ive read that was started by a Game Corresponder gets locked. It seems like if someone reacts negatively to a game correspondent, the thread gets lock. I don't know...I would suggest maybe some training for those in the new positions? Maybe? Some suggestions.....well...one really BE NEUTRAL. If a game correspodent whips out "shady" stuff that is a advertisement for the game...that is not corresponding. That is call Advertisement. To be a successful correspondent you need to provide factual information about the game (not just AoC...but any game....I just say it here since people are lock happy here a lot) and to provide factual information about the game. You cannot be a successful Game Correspondent if you are
A Fanboi A Griever
You have to be in the middle. Neutral. Your job is to provide news concerning the game and be a support catalyst for ingame walk throughs, etc. Not to promote Funcom. If one acts like a PR for a very "touchy subject of AoC" then you're going to get flames. If you are neutral and deliver factual information and helpful information, you wont get flamed. Just a thought.
This coming from an obvious Political shill. I mean do you really think your mad plan to have Cobra Commander take over the US executive branch will really work? What kind of nefarious plot is this a part of to get him elected. Are you trying to start some kind of new cobra political party with this?
Note: I am joking. Don't ban me for calling him a shill.
well the thing about being a political shill is that you would know the game better then anyone. would have the best grasp on telling the public what to believe as the truth. so them coming here to call out a lesser shill on his amateur games is quite welcome in my books.
Nice try, Zartan, but I can see through your disguises.
I think the problem here is a question of perception.
It can be explained all day long that when a member with the "Correspondent" title posts in the regular forums, they are no better than any other member.
The problem that could arise is people will see that title and immediately apply a degree of authority to it. "Oh, they're a correspondent. I don't see (m)any others with that title, so they must have some weight around here".
Let's look at it another way... Many people will see someone wearing a badge, immediately think "cop", and adjust their behavior, (many, not all :-p), even if they're doing nothing wrong. In reality, the person is "Head of Security" for some store and has no authority at all outside that store's parking lot. To someone who doesn't know better, the badge implies meaningful authority. A title can very well do the same... even if only on a mmorpg community site.
And so anything they say is going to be read with increased scrutiny by people, whether it's "correspondent material" or a normal post. This is especially likely as time goes on and this entire thread, and others like it, are forgotten.
And as they were granted that title by MMORPG.com, they will be perceived as representing MMORPG.com... Maybe not to the mmorpg.com staff... but certainly to people who will come here.
So when you have someone like Avery who has an active history of spinning like a top in support of AoC, no matter what the issue, it immediately makes him look like a shill. By extension, it's going to appear that his behavior is supported by MMORPG.com as, after all, y'all granted him a unique title.
Personally, as he is a representative of MMORPG.com, voluntary or otherwise, he should be held to a higher standard when ever he posts, because, no matter what the intent is, the *perception* is going to be that he's not "just another member" at mmorpg.com... It's going to be that he is a "staff member", and hence, more important.
It's a matter of perception.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Age of Conan needs to be taken very delicately. A lot of people feel that the developers lied and were pretty much mischevious about a lot of things. Rather it remains true or not is open for debate but the fact is a LOT of people are bitter against funcom.
I can't think of many games that don't have a trove of angy people claiming they have been lied to and nearly had their lives destroyed by the "evil developers." We really see this with almost every single game that launches and is covered here. I have been here a long time and I can tell you it is the same pattern, over and over and over.
Again, Avery is just another community member here, he has no special privledges and when he posts - it is not part of the correspondence program. We might just do away with the special titles to end the confusion. The main reason we had the titles is so that when they posted in their own comment threads on their articles you would know the author was replying to your questsions. It was also our hope that these correspondents might become some kind of "mentor" for the game they represent helping out new players with questions and such. We were not looking to have them hunted down like witches.
I mean, don't you think that 100 other hardcore fans or "fanbois" have posted false or stretched information on this website to get people to play their favorite game? Do you expect MMORPG.com to fact check everyones posts and ban people who post false information?
I wouldn't get rid of the special titles just because of this. These guys deserve the recognition for the time and effort they go through. I think the main problem is that many people were just a little confused by the whole "correspondent" thing. Perhaps just tweak the job title to "Gameplay Advisor" or something. Or just make a good description of what the correspondent is, that they are just gamers who play the game and are here to help others who play the game, and just make it a sticky that people can be referred to.The main thing is to just remove the misconception that the correspondents are dev flunkies for whatever game they are assigned to.
Yeah, Correspondent gives the idea that they are "emissaries" of the game in question. Zorvan is right - change the name to something more appropiate.
I think the problem here is a question of perception. It can be explained all day long that when a member with the "Correspondent" title posts in the regular forums, they are no better than any other member. The problem that could arise is people will see that title and immediately apply a degree of authority to it. "Oh, they're a correspondent. I don't see (m)any others with that title, so they must have some weight around here". Let's look at it another way... Many people will see someone wearing a badge, immediately think "cop", and adjust their behavior, (many, not all :-p), even if they're doing nothing wrong. In reality, the person is "Head of Security" for some store and has no authority at all outside that store's parking lot. To someone who doesn't know better, the badge implies meaningful authority. A title can very well do the same... even if only on a mmorpg community site. And so anything they say is going to be read with increased scrutiny by people, whether it's "correspondent material" or a normal post. This is especially likely as time goes on and this entire thread, and others like it, are forgotten. And as they were granted that title by MMORPG.com, they will be perceived as representing MMORPG.com... Maybe not to the mmorpg.com staff... but certainly to people who will come here. So when you have someone like Avery who has an active history of spinning like a top in support of AoC, no matter what the issue, it immediately makes him look like a shill. By extension, it's going to appear that his behavior is supported by MMORPG.com as, after all, y'all granted him a unique title. Personally, as he is a representative of MMORPG.com, voluntary or otherwise, he should be held to a higher standard when ever he posts, because, no matter what the intent is, the *perception* is going to be that he's not "just another member" at mmorpg.com... It's going to be that he is a "staff member", and hence, more important. It's a matter of perception.
This post sums up the problem very clearly. Thank you
giving these guys these titles just make it look like they are mmorpg.com employees. not funcoms. when in reality they have been fucom shills. but i think that idea just like all the other ideas from funcom fail.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by Die_Scream
I think it's obvious Amazing Avery is a FC plant. Whether paid or not, he is the forums biggest fanboy of AoC and as such, it brings disrepute to MMORPG.com. I'm a little outraged that MMORPG allowed themselves to become an extension of a development house PR. For shame MMORPG, I assume as a GC, Avery is getting his monthly sub paid by this site too? For shame.
Hi Die_Scream, just because you don't see eye to eye with me with the fact I enjoy the game on the whole, I do resent you or anyone else calling me a shill. You guys mean it in a negative way and to be really honest it's just not the case. Everyone who know's everyone has checked that and confirmed I don't work for Funcom.
I will not be paid by mmorpg.com for my Age of Conan subscription. And I am definately not being paid by Funcom.
Originally posted by Die_Scream
After the brutal censoring of the AoC official forums, I don't mind telling you I'm mighty suspicious of Famine posting here, then Amazing Avery being "promoted to GC". This board should be free of corporate meddling.
Actually mmorpg.com asked me if I was interested in being an in-game correspondent way back on June 23rd this year. Every game on this site can have devs post on there, in fact I believe its encouraged.
Originally posted by Arthousesig
If Avery is posting outright lies about AOC on the forum, are we allowed to call him out on it?
I know for a fact I have never posted lies, if you disagree with any of my correspondent articles please feel free to leave feedback and your opinion's on topic in a constructive manner.
Originally posted by thundera
If this is truly the case why is Avery posting stuff like the fury server fiasco which has absolutely no value beyond pr trying to sway opinions?
A fan can still post on the boards, its not about trying to sway opinons, if thats the case then censorship should be equally given to those people who post they dislike the game to get others not to play. Fury server "fiasco" as you put it was posted on IGN Age of Conan minisite in the latest news section and is still there. Its relevant concurrent news, just like NPD sales charts which get released for periods 3 weeks past. The news had not been posted here for discussion, and was in line with the general theme of topics on the front page here.
Originally posted by Arthousesig
I don't know this Avery guy but as Correspondent he has made 2 threads that I can see: a) a post about Fury server being full, a topic that has no insight or value to the players of AOC but has the familiar ring of a "this game is so popular!" Funcom PR release -- and one that is based on also familiar purposely falsified data b) a post that "boobies are coming back to AOC", which is also of dubious value and contains little insight apart from the pubescent libidinous priorities of the person posting it
At worst, you got a paid funcom employee or shill doing PR. At best, you got an unpopular fanboy with no credibility who is writing drivel on topics that are of no interest or value to the AOC-playing community. When that's your best case scenario, it might be time to consider another guy.
If you don't know me, then I have a large post history fo review. The boobies post mixed with patch notes, was relevant again due to the topics floating around with mature content removal. As a subscriber to the game, it was information addressing those with concerns who don't play the game anymore when things might of been different and to put my opinion, just like anyone elses on the boards. You act like I have done something wrong when in all fairness i don't think I have, you already seem familar with myself and I equally feel that your brand new here, but someone else with a name change.
Originally posted by Admin
Correspondents are not official staff members. They are fans and regular site members like you that we ask to contribute articles to give resources to players. When they post in the forums it is not part of their role as a correspondent. I'm not sure how to be more clear on that. Yes, we do want only facts in the articles they submit to us - a guide is useless if it is not accurate of course. But what these users post in the boards is their business, and we are not going to follow them around and police their comments just because they contribute to our correspondents program.
Thank you for making this stand out Admin.
Originally posted by WSIMike Personally, as he is a representative of MMORPG.com, voluntary or otherwise, he should be held to a higher standard when ever he posts, because, no matter what the intent is, the *perception* is going to be that he's not "just another member" at mmorpg.com... It's going to be that he is a "staff member", and hence, more important. It's a matter of perception.
I think the above covers your objections, hold my forthcoming correspondent articles to a higher standard by all means. I have been active here for a while and regularly post, I enjoy talking about the game and debating finer points with fellow gamers. I am just another member at mmorpg.com, all be it one who enjoys the game on the whole in said games section, posting own opinions at hand.
At the end of the day, judge my articles with your own opinions when presented here. I haven't even posted any yet and feel that people are mis-understood on what I will be doing here and making grand assumptions and I have no benefit of doubt.
Just want to add too, that in the past I was also asked to write for tentonhamer.com paid very nicely but turned it down. Not there is nothing bad there, just this is my home, I like the debates here and the name calling. Seriously though, I understand completely why a lot of you feel pissed off with AoC and hope to address that in public light, and there is no perks for this position, including wages or paid game subs.
wow i could say so much about this last post but i wont break it down. it should be quite obvious. for the reason being i dont want this thread locked. has been quite interesting to read. all i can say is this is the best way to insert shills into the forums...right out in the open. that is the best way to hide things. the cia use this tactic all the time. just because we are told they are not shills even though their title says it all....
dont you see avery, giving you the benefit of the doubt would be no different then giving funcom the benefit of the doubt again after we just got the shaft and bought into the whole hype thing. we were manipulated to believe lies. im sorry but i certainly wont allow myself to be told to drink more coolade. how is that not getting through to you correspondances? this position has crossed the line of a regular member and an admitted shill no matter if we are told you guys work for free for mmorpg.com. you are all still trying to manipulate the general public to believe more lies. im sorry but as you can see the "vocal minority" are just not going to take the shaft some more
I think it's obvious Amazing Avery is a FC plant. Whether paid or not, he is the forums biggest fanboy of AoC and as such, it brings disrepute to MMORPG.com. I'm a little outraged that MMORPG allowed themselves to become an extension of a development house PR. For shame MMORPG, I assume as a GC, Avery is getting his monthly sub paid by this site too? For shame.
Amazing Avery has been here for a long time as a poster, and as a supporter of Age of Conan, that's true. No one is denying that, but how can you judge him as a correspondent or article writer until you've actually seen it? Some people are actually able to keep their personal feelings aside and focus on the actual task. You don't know that Avery isn't one of those people.
In the end, I am the one who decides what articles get published and what articles don't. If he writes "advertisement" (and I'm confident that he won't, to be honest), then the articles won't be published. That goes for any and all correspondents or other writers as well.
Bottom line: I'm not going to fire someone before they have submitted their first article.
wow i could say so much about this last post but i wont break it down. it should be quite obvious. for the reason being i dont want this thread locked. has been quite interesting to read. all i can say is this is the best way to insert shills into the forums...right out in the open. that is the best way to hide things. the cia use this tactic all the time. just because we are told they are not shills even though their title says it all....
dont you see avery, giving you the benefit of the doubt would be no different then giving funcom the benefit of the doubt again after we just got the shaft and bought into the whole hype thing. we were manipulated to believe lies. how is that not getting through to you correspondances? this position has crossed the line of a regular member and an admitted shill no matter if we are told you guys work for free for mmorpg.com. you are all still trying to manipulate the general public to believe more lies. im sorry but as you can see the "vocal minority" are just not going to take the shaft some more
I will pay more attention to, and consider the suggestions, recommendations and opinions of my fellow gamers that have no stock in FunCom, or MMORPG.com, or have any type of official representation of such Companies/Websites any day of the week.
Also, consider this: It is possible to be a shill, and not even realize it.
wow i could say so much about this last post but i wont break it down. it should be quite obvious. for the reason being i dont want this thread locked. has been quite interesting to read. all i can say is this is the best way to insert shills into the forums...right out in the open. that is the best way to hide things. the cia use this tactic all the time. just because we are told they are not shills even though their title says it all....
dont you see avery, giving you the benefit of the doubt would be no different then giving funcom the benefit of the doubt again after we just got the shaft and bought into the whole hype thing. we were manipulated to believe lies. how is that not getting through to you correspondances? this position has crossed the line of a regular member and an admitted shill no matter if we are told you guys work for free for mmorpg.com. you are all still trying to manipulate the general public to believe more lies. im sorry but as you can see the "vocal minority" are just not going to take the shaft some more
I will pay more attention to, and consider the suggestions, recommendations and opinions of my fellow gamers that have no stock in FunCom, or MMORPG.com, or have any type of official representation of such Companies/Websites any day of the week.
Also, consider this: It is possible to be a shill, and not even realize it.
those are the people who are still drinking the coolade. it is easy to tell that avery does not drink the coolade either which leads me to believe what his job is here on the forums. alot of people at release and just before were big time shills and did not know it. they believed the hype machine and regret it and feel they recieved the shaft. anyone else is already on their third glass as we speak.
It just seems too convenient that the biggest and one of the more enduring AoC "fanboi" here has become the Correspondent. Though at the same time it shouldn't be surprising. Avery, you can make well thought-out posts, so I'm sure you'll be careful enough to give us the facts, not promote or defend the game. You can do that when you're just posting on the forums regularly, but you need to make sure you don't use your title as some kind of bonus in that case - i.e. "Whose the game correspondent here? Don't you think I'd know more about this than you?"
I'm sure you'd never say that outright but you can imply it which is also bad.
As long as he does that I really don't see the problem with game correspondents in general. Enigma is 100% right, and I think they're useful for people who are playing the game. They're not meant to promote or demote the game, if the player gains interest in the game through one of their write-ups then that's their decision.
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by Ascension08
It just seems too convenient that the biggest and one of the more enduring AoC "fanboi" here has become the Correspondent. Though at the same time it shouldn't be surprising. Avery, you can make well thought-out posts, so I'm sure you'll be careful enough to give us the facts, not promote or defend the game. You can do that when you're just posting on the forums regularly, but you need to make sure you don't use your title as some kind of bonus in that case - i.e. "Whose the game correspondent here? Don't you think I'd know more about this than you?" I'm sure you'd never say that outright but you can imply it which is also bad. As long as he does that I really don't see the problem with game correspondants. Enigma is 100% right.
I hope you know me well enough that as much as a fan of the game I am, at times I can be objective and also wouldn't do anything as use a title in an un-fitting way. Infact the title can go, I enjoy writing about Age of Conan and appreciate being asked to do a bit more for the people that are interested in an orderly fashion. Regardless of difference on opinion on many facets of Age of Conan with many regulars here I'm not the type of person to do that.
Keep those eyes peeled for my first article coming hopefully in a week or so.
It just seems too convenient that the biggest and one of the more enduring AoC "fanboi" here has become the Correspondent. Though at the same time it shouldn't be surprising. Avery, you can make well thought-out posts, so I'm sure you'll be careful enough to give us the facts, not promote or defend the game. You can do that when you're just posting on the forums regularly, but you need to make sure you don't use your title as some kind of bonus in that case - i.e. "Whose the game correspondent here? Don't you think I'd know more about this than you?" I'm sure you'd never say that outright but you can imply it which is also bad. As long as he does that I really don't see the problem with game correspondants. Enigma is 100% right.
i hope you know me well enough that as much as a fan of the game I am, at times I can be objective and also wouldn't do anything as use a title in an un-fitting way. Infact the title can go, I enjoy writing about Age of Conan and appreciate being asked to do a bit more for the people that are interested in an orderly fashion.
Keep those eyes peeled for my first article coming hopefully in a week or so.
Hehe yeah we've argued a few times but as Zorvan and others said you do the work so you deserve the title. I didn't think you'd use it in an un-fitting way.
-------------------------------------- A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
I think it's obvious Amazing Avery is a FC plant. Whether paid or not, he is the forums biggest fanboy of AoC and as such, it brings disrepute to MMORPG.com. I'm a little outraged that MMORPG allowed themselves to become an extension of a development house PR. For shame MMORPG, I assume as a GC, Avery is getting his monthly sub paid by this site too? For shame.
Hey, here's a thought. I know it's totally out there and all, but why don't you wait and see what he has to offer before flying off the handle and making fun little assumptions.
Amazing Avery has been here for a long time as a poster, and as a supporter of Age of Conan, that's true. No one is denying that, but how can you judge him as a correspondent or article writer until you've actually seen it? Some people are actually able to keep their personal feelings aside and focus on the actual task. You don't know that Avery isn't one of those people.
In the end, I am the one who decides what articles get published and what articles don't. If he writes "advertisement" (and I'm confident that he won't, to be honest), then the articles won't be published. That goes for any and all correspondents or other writers as well.
Bottom line: I'm not going to fire someone before they have submitted their first article.
Sorry if you were talking about, lemme just pull out someone i know to be pretty hefty pro-WoW person but is fairly reasonable, Pappy13 and WoW I might be inclined to say a reserved Ok we will see.
But no not in this case. But good luck with that. I consider my skepticism and distrust well and repeatedly jusitified and see no good or compelling reason to do what you say or reconsider conclusions I reached a number of months ago that have been nothing but repeatedly confirmed. And yes I do not believe the two areas are completely separate and yes I have quite a bit of confidence in my ability and methods of judging these things; they have been quite successful.
I don't know that Avery isn't one of these people? I don't know that he is one either and have plenty of contributing factors to indicate that it is highly unlikely that he is. Why should i give him credit that was exhausted? Nope sorry I'm not running a charity here.
I think it's obvious Amazing Avery is a FC plant. Whether paid or not, he is the forums biggest fanboy of AoC and as such, it brings disrepute to MMORPG.com. I'm a little outraged that MMORPG allowed themselves to become an extension of a development house PR. For shame MMORPG, I assume as a GC, Avery is getting his monthly sub paid by this site too? For shame.
Amazing Avery has been here for a long time as a poster, and as a supporter of Age of Conan, that's true. No one is denying that, but how can you judge him as a correspondent or article writer until you've actually seen it? Some people are actually able to keep their personal feelings aside and focus on the actual task. You don't know that Avery isn't one of those people.
In the end, I am the one who decides what articles get published and what articles don't. If he writes "advertisement" (and I'm confident that he won't, to be honest), then the articles won't be published. That goes for any and all correspondents or other writers as well.
Bottom line: I'm not going to fire someone before they have submitted their first article.
1/16/07 doesnt qualify for a long time poster imo. 3300+ posts since the beginning of 07, you couldnt pay me to put that much work into that many posts in defense of AoC. Well then again, if I got a free trip out of it and a bunch of other perks I might be able to put in some man hours in.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by Arcken
1/16/07 doesnt qualify for a long time poster imo. 3300+ posts since the beginning of 07, you couldnt pay me to put that much work into that many posts in defense of AoC. Well then again, if I got a free trip out of it and a bunch of other perks I might be able to put in some man hours in.
Thats a little un-called for don't you think?
How about a fan just like any other of the thousands of entrants, who spent a whole month constructing a Video FAQ to enter into a competion to a game that he is interested in and ends up winning.
I put a lot of time and effort into my entry to better help the community and FYI it was well received.
I feel I don't have to defend AoC, I feel that people have to come up with better arguments to justify the misinformation they like to spread without ever stepping foot in game.
Its about posting your thoughts with your own opinion, and I just do that. Somethings I like, others I don't so much with the game, fact is I talk about both.
Notwithstanding all the community Q& A and follow up work I done after the trip.
1/16/07 doesnt qualify for a long time poster imo. 3300+ posts since the beginning of 07, you couldnt pay me to put that much work into that many posts in defense of AoC. Well then again, if I got a free trip out of it and a bunch of other perks I might be able to put in some man hours in.
Thats a little un-called for don't you think?
How about a fan just like any other of the thousands of entrants, who spent a whole month constructing a Video FAQ to enter into a competion to a game that he is interested in and ends up winning.
I put a lot of time and effort into my entry to better help the community and FYI it was well received.
I feel I don't have to defend AoC, I feel that people have to come up with better arguments to justify the misinformation they like to spread without ever stepping foot in game.
Its about posting your thoughts with your own opinion, and I just do that. Somethings I like, others I don't so much with the game, fact is I talk about both.
Notwithstanding all the community Q& A and follow up work I done after the trip.
you always pull out the "this or that player has never stepped in game" card. how would you know he hasnt? just cause he disagrees with you means he never played this game? because they assumably never played so what they are saying is a lie. yet the writing is on the wall and is quite obvious they are being quite truthfull. for people that have not stepped foot in the game, they sure know a hell of alot about what is really going on in the game cause i have played this and what they say is certainly not to far off from the truth i see as well...
1/16/07 doesnt qualify for a long time poster imo. 3300+ posts since the beginning of 07, you couldnt pay me to put that much work into that many posts in defense of AoC. Well then again, if I got a free trip out of it and a bunch of other perks I might be able to put in some man hours in.
Thats a little un-called for don't you think?
How about a fan just like any other of the thousands of entrants, who spent a whole month constructing a Video FAQ to enter into a competion to a game that he is interested in and ends up winning.
I put a lot of time and effort into my entry to better help the community and FYI it was well received.
I feel I don't have to defend AoC, I feel that people have to come up with better arguments to justify the misinformation they like to spread without ever stepping foot in game.
Its about posting your thoughts with your own opinion, and I just do that. Somethings I like, others I don't so much with the game, fact is I talk about both.
Notwithstanding all the community Q& A and follow up work I done after the trip.
you always pull out the "this or that player has never stepped in game" card. how would you know he hasnt? just cause he disagrees with you means he never played this game? because they assumably never played so what they are saying is a lie. yet the writing is on the wall and is quite obvious they are being quite truthfull. for people that have not stepped foot in the game, they sure know a hell of alot about what is really going on in the game cause i have played this and what they say is certainly not to far off from the truth i see as well...
I'd say it was a general statement , It defintely wasn't directed at the poster he was replying to , That is obvious.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
I agree. Dont take away their titles. There are some who really deserve it.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
I can't think of many games that don't have a trove of angy people claiming they have been lied to and nearly had their lives destroyed by the "evil developers." We really see this with almost every single game that launches and is covered here. I have been here a long time and I can tell you it is the same pattern, over and over and over.
Again, Avery is just another community member here, he has no special privledges and when he posts - it is not part of the correspondence program. We might just do away with the special titles to end the confusion. The main reason we had the titles is so that when they posted in their own comment threads on their articles you would know the author was replying to your questsions. It was also our hope that these correspondents might become some kind of "mentor" for the game they represent helping out new players with questions and such. We were not looking to have them hunted down like witches.
I mean, don't you think that 100 other hardcore fans or "fanbois" have posted false or stretched information on this website to get people to play their favorite game? Do you expect MMORPG.com to fact check everyones posts and ban people who post false information?
If you ban people who call them on it then I expect you to ban people who instigate as well.
You know that in cases of Assault there are special circumstances for provoking the assault with various sorts of speech?
This is not that different. Yet if someone comes in and lies you will ban the people who flame instead of the person who instigated it. Yet they are both culpable.
If someone comes in and posts false information and then gets a bunch of people riled up, aren't they trolling? Aren't trolls sometimes banned?
Are you really surprised that people are going after him after multiple PR trolls? This isn't random you know.
Also I don't agree with you; AoC is a special case. While you are correct about the cycle. I think that AoC really does come extremely close to a real scam in many ways. Whereas the other games are generally a case poorly managed expectations. Also there have been a couple cases that games really were dishonest, Mourning for example. I consider AoC almost as bad as Mourning myself. Dismissing it out of hand simply because some people regularly get hysterical is actually doing the same thing they do.
I do expect mmorpg.com to fact check, before or if questions arise - after, all information posted by official mmorpg.com writers/editors/admins/game corr's.
And yes I do mean if Fireball does 10002 damage or 1002 damage in your spellguide.
- if Boss X is immune to fire and not frost as stated in the dungeonguide.
- if Server Y, due to the success of the game, is suddenly FULL or if it is not in your serverguide.
- if Feature Z in the game is working as advertised by the devs or not in your FAQ.
Correspondents are not official staff members. They are fans and regular site members like you that we ask to contribute articles to give resources to players. When they post in the forums it is not part of their role as a correspondent.
I'm not sure how to be more clear on that.
Yes, we do want only facts in the articles they submit to us - a guide is useless if it is not accurate of course. But what these users post in the boards is their business, and we are not going to follow them around and police their comments just because they contribute to our correspondents program.
Yeah I know, but its still confusing. They post as members in some parts of the forums and as corr's in another part. They have an "official"-looking title and avatar.
Maybe they could have these titles and avatars only when they post their guides and in the comment-threads about their articles?
"Yes, we do want only facts in the articles they submit to us - a guide is useless if it is not accurate of course."
To be fair i've only read the one AoC-guide so far. The one about the upcoming pvp-changes. A little more than "only facts" in that one
But I know its a new feature here and things will change as time goes by so I wont bash around on that specific article.
Good luck. Nice site btw
I think the idea of having a game correspondent is fine. However, so far the choice for AoC in Dom doesn't seem to be a good fit.
He may be a very nice guy, who knows, but his grammar, spelling, and overall attitude on the forums is a far cry from someone I would personally want representing my site. Like I said, he is probably a very nice person but he does not seem to be right for the position he is in. I am basing this on his numerous posts on this forum.
Tecmo Bowl.
This coming from an obvious Political shill. I mean do you really think your mad plan to have Cobra Commander take over the US executive branch will really work? What kind of nefarious plot is this a part of to get him elected. Are you trying to start some kind of new cobra political party with this?
Note: I am joking. Don't ban me for calling him a shill.
well the thing about being a political shill is that you would know the game better then anyone. would have the best grasp on telling the public what to believe as the truth. so them coming here to call out a lesser shill on his amateur games is quite welcome in my books.
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This coming from an obvious Political shill. I mean do you really think your mad plan to have Cobra Commander take over the US executive branch will really work? What kind of nefarious plot is this a part of to get him elected. Are you trying to start some kind of new cobra political party with this?
Note: I am joking. Don't ban me for calling him a shill.
well the thing about being a political shill is that you would know the game better then anyone. would have the best grasp on telling the public what to believe as the truth. so them coming here to call out a lesser shill on his amateur games is quite welcome in my books.
Nice try, Zartan, but I can see through your disguises.
I'd vote for Cobra Commander. He has some pretty good ideas.
woot! I got another follower!
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
I think the problem here is a question of perception.
It can be explained all day long that when a member with the "Correspondent" title posts in the regular forums, they are no better than any other member.
The problem that could arise is people will see that title and immediately apply a degree of authority to it. "Oh, they're a correspondent. I don't see (m)any others with that title, so they must have some weight around here".
Let's look at it another way... Many people will see someone wearing a badge, immediately think "cop", and adjust their behavior, (many, not all :-p), even if they're doing nothing wrong. In reality, the person is "Head of Security" for some store and has no authority at all outside that store's parking lot. To someone who doesn't know better, the badge implies meaningful authority. A title can very well do the same... even if only on a mmorpg community site.
And so anything they say is going to be read with increased scrutiny by people, whether it's "correspondent material" or a normal post. This is especially likely as time goes on and this entire thread, and others like it, are forgotten.
And as they were granted that title by MMORPG.com, they will be perceived as representing MMORPG.com... Maybe not to the mmorpg.com staff... but certainly to people who will come here.
So when you have someone like Avery who has an active history of spinning like a top in support of AoC, no matter what the issue, it immediately makes him look like a shill. By extension, it's going to appear that his behavior is supported by MMORPG.com as, after all, y'all granted him a unique title.
Personally, as he is a representative of MMORPG.com, voluntary or otherwise, he should be held to a higher standard when ever he posts, because, no matter what the intent is, the *perception* is going to be that he's not "just another member" at mmorpg.com... It's going to be that he is a "staff member", and hence, more important.
It's a matter of perception.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I can't think of many games that don't have a trove of angy people claiming they have been lied to and nearly had their lives destroyed by the "evil developers." We really see this with almost every single game that launches and is covered here. I have been here a long time and I can tell you it is the same pattern, over and over and over.
Again, Avery is just another community member here, he has no special privledges and when he posts - it is not part of the correspondence program. We might just do away with the special titles to end the confusion. The main reason we had the titles is so that when they posted in their own comment threads on their articles you would know the author was replying to your questsions. It was also our hope that these correspondents might become some kind of "mentor" for the game they represent helping out new players with questions and such. We were not looking to have them hunted down like witches.
I mean, don't you think that 100 other hardcore fans or "fanbois" have posted false or stretched information on this website to get people to play their favorite game? Do you expect MMORPG.com to fact check everyones posts and ban people who post false information?
I wouldn't get rid of the special titles just because of this. These guys deserve the recognition for the time and effort they go through. I think the main problem is that many people were just a little confused by the whole "correspondent" thing. Perhaps just tweak the job title to "Gameplay Advisor" or something. Or just make a good description of what the correspondent is, that they are just gamers who play the game and are here to help others who play the game, and just make it a sticky that people can be referred to.The main thing is to just remove the misconception that the correspondents are dev flunkies for whatever game they are assigned to.
Yeah, Correspondent gives the idea that they are "emissaries" of the game in question. Zorvan is right - change the name to something more appropiate.
This post sums up the problem very clearly. Thank you
giving these guys these titles just make it look like they are mmorpg.com employees. not funcoms. when in reality they have been fucom shills. but i think that idea just like all the other ideas from funcom fail.
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Hi Die_Scream, just because you don't see eye to eye with me with the fact I enjoy the game on the whole, I do resent you or anyone else calling me a shill. You guys mean it in a negative way and to be really honest it's just not the case. Everyone who know's everyone has checked that and confirmed I don't work for Funcom.
I will not be paid by mmorpg.com for my Age of Conan subscription. And I am definately not being paid by Funcom.
Actually mmorpg.com asked me if I was interested in being an in-game correspondent way back on June 23rd this year. Every game on this site can have devs post on there, in fact I believe its encouraged.
I know for a fact I have never posted lies, if you disagree with any of my correspondent articles please feel free to leave feedback and your opinion's on topic in a constructive manner.
A fan can still post on the boards, its not about trying to sway opinons, if thats the case then censorship should be equally given to those people who post they dislike the game to get others not to play. Fury server "fiasco" as you put it was posted on IGN Age of Conan minisite in the latest news section and is still there. Its relevant concurrent news, just like NPD sales charts which get released for periods 3 weeks past. The news had not been posted here for discussion, and was in line with the general theme of topics on the front page here.
If you don't know me, then I have a large post history fo review. The boobies post mixed with patch notes, was relevant again due to the topics floating around with mature content removal. As a subscriber to the game, it was information addressing those with concerns who don't play the game anymore when things might of been different and to put my opinion, just like anyone elses on the boards. You act like I have done something wrong when in all fairness i don't think I have, you already seem familar with myself and I equally feel that your brand new here, but someone else with a name change.
Thank you for making this stand out Admin.
I think the above covers your objections, hold my forthcoming correspondent articles to a higher standard by all means. I have been active here for a while and regularly post, I enjoy talking about the game and debating finer points with fellow gamers. I am just another member at mmorpg.com, all be it one who enjoys the game on the whole in said games section, posting own opinions at hand.
At the end of the day, judge my articles with your own opinions when presented here. I haven't even posted any yet and feel that people are mis-understood on what I will be doing here and making grand assumptions and I have no benefit of doubt.
Just want to add too, that in the past I was also asked to write for tentonhamer.com paid very nicely but turned it down. Not there is nothing bad there, just this is my home, I like the debates here and the name calling. Seriously though, I understand completely why a lot of you feel pissed off with AoC and hope to address that in public light, and there is no perks for this position, including wages or paid game subs.
wow i could say so much about this last post but i wont break it down. it should be quite obvious. for the reason being i dont want this thread locked. has been quite interesting to read. all i can say is this is the best way to insert shills into the forums...right out in the open. that is the best way to hide things. the cia use this tactic all the time. just because we are told they are not shills even though their title says it all....
dont you see avery, giving you the benefit of the doubt would be no different then giving funcom the benefit of the doubt again after we just got the shaft and bought into the whole hype thing. we were manipulated to believe lies. im sorry but i certainly wont allow myself to be told to drink more coolade. how is that not getting through to you correspondances? this position has crossed the line of a regular member and an admitted shill no matter if we are told you guys work for free for mmorpg.com. you are all still trying to manipulate the general public to believe more lies. im sorry but as you can see the "vocal minority" are just not going to take the shaft some more
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Amazing Avery has been here for a long time as a poster, and as a supporter of Age of Conan, that's true. No one is denying that, but how can you judge him as a correspondent or article writer until you've actually seen it? Some people are actually able to keep their personal feelings aside and focus on the actual task. You don't know that Avery isn't one of those people.
In the end, I am the one who decides what articles get published and what articles don't. If he writes "advertisement" (and I'm confident that he won't, to be honest), then the articles won't be published. That goes for any and all correspondents or other writers as well.
Bottom line: I'm not going to fire someone before they have submitted their first article.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
I will pay more attention to, and consider the suggestions, recommendations and opinions of my fellow gamers that have no stock in FunCom, or MMORPG.com, or have any type of official representation of such Companies/Websites any day of the week.
Also, consider this: It is possible to be a shill, and not even realize it.
I will pay more attention to, and consider the suggestions, recommendations and opinions of my fellow gamers that have no stock in FunCom, or MMORPG.com, or have any type of official representation of such Companies/Websites any day of the week.
Also, consider this: It is possible to be a shill, and not even realize it.
those are the people who are still drinking the coolade. it is easy to tell that avery does not drink the coolade either which leads me to believe what his job is here on the forums. alot of people at release and just before were big time shills and did not know it. they believed the hype machine and regret it and feel they recieved the shaft. anyone else is already on their third glass as we speak.
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It just seems too convenient that the biggest and one of the more enduring AoC "fanboi" here has become the Correspondent. Though at the same time it shouldn't be surprising. Avery, you can make well thought-out posts, so I'm sure you'll be careful enough to give us the facts, not promote or defend the game. You can do that when you're just posting on the forums regularly, but you need to make sure you don't use your title as some kind of bonus in that case - i.e. "Whose the game correspondent here? Don't you think I'd know more about this than you?"
I'm sure you'd never say that outright but you can imply it which is also bad.
As long as he does that I really don't see the problem with game correspondents in general. Enigma is 100% right, and I think they're useful for people who are playing the game. They're not meant to promote or demote the game, if the player gains interest in the game through one of their write-ups then that's their decision.
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A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
I hope you know me well enough that as much as a fan of the game I am, at times I can be objective and also wouldn't do anything as use a title in an un-fitting way. Infact the title can go, I enjoy writing about Age of Conan and appreciate being asked to do a bit more for the people that are interested in an orderly fashion. Regardless of difference on opinion on many facets of Age of Conan with many regulars here I'm not the type of person to do that.
Keep those eyes peeled for my first article coming hopefully in a week or so.
i hope you know me well enough that as much as a fan of the game I am, at times I can be objective and also wouldn't do anything as use a title in an un-fitting way. Infact the title can go, I enjoy writing about Age of Conan and appreciate being asked to do a bit more for the people that are interested in an orderly fashion.
Keep those eyes peeled for my first article coming hopefully in a week or so.
Hehe yeah we've argued a few times but as Zorvan and others said you do the work so you deserve the title. I didn't think you'd use it in an un-fitting way.
--------------------------------------
A human and an Elf get captured by Skaven. The rat-men are getting ready to shoot the first hostage with Dwarf-made guns when he yells, "Earthquake!" The naturally nervous Skaven run and hide from the imaginary threat. He escapes. The Skaven regroup and bring out the Elf. Being very smart, the Elf has figured out what to do. When the Skaven get ready to shoot, the Elf, in order to scare them, yells, "Fire!"
Order of the White Border.
Hey, here's a thought. I know it's totally out there and all, but why don't you wait and see what he has to offer before flying off the handle and making fun little assumptions.
Amazing Avery has been here for a long time as a poster, and as a supporter of Age of Conan, that's true. No one is denying that, but how can you judge him as a correspondent or article writer until you've actually seen it? Some people are actually able to keep their personal feelings aside and focus on the actual task. You don't know that Avery isn't one of those people.
In the end, I am the one who decides what articles get published and what articles don't. If he writes "advertisement" (and I'm confident that he won't, to be honest), then the articles won't be published. That goes for any and all correspondents or other writers as well.
Bottom line: I'm not going to fire someone before they have submitted their first article.
Sorry if you were talking about, lemme just pull out someone i know to be pretty hefty pro-WoW person but is fairly reasonable, Pappy13 and WoW I might be inclined to say a reserved Ok we will see.
But no not in this case. But good luck with that. I consider my skepticism and distrust well and repeatedly jusitified and see no good or compelling reason to do what you say or reconsider conclusions I reached a number of months ago that have been nothing but repeatedly confirmed. And yes I do not believe the two areas are completely separate and yes I have quite a bit of confidence in my ability and methods of judging these things; they have been quite successful.
I don't know that Avery isn't one of these people? I don't know that he is one either and have plenty of contributing factors to indicate that it is highly unlikely that he is. Why should i give him credit that was exhausted? Nope sorry I'm not running a charity here.
Amazing Avery has been here for a long time as a poster, and as a supporter of Age of Conan, that's true. No one is denying that, but how can you judge him as a correspondent or article writer until you've actually seen it? Some people are actually able to keep their personal feelings aside and focus on the actual task. You don't know that Avery isn't one of those people.
In the end, I am the one who decides what articles get published and what articles don't. If he writes "advertisement" (and I'm confident that he won't, to be honest), then the articles won't be published. That goes for any and all correspondents or other writers as well.
Bottom line: I'm not going to fire someone before they have submitted their first article.
1/16/07 doesnt qualify for a long time poster imo. 3300+ posts since the beginning of 07, you couldnt pay me to put that much work into that many posts in defense of AoC. Well then again, if I got a free trip out of it and a bunch of other perks I might be able to put in some man hours in.
Thats a little un-called for don't you think?
How about a fan just like any other of the thousands of entrants, who spent a whole month constructing a Video FAQ to enter into a competion to a game that he is interested in and ends up winning.
I put a lot of time and effort into my entry to better help the community and FYI it was well received.
I feel I don't have to defend AoC, I feel that people have to come up with better arguments to justify the misinformation they like to spread without ever stepping foot in game.
Its about posting your thoughts with your own opinion, and I just do that. Somethings I like, others I don't so much with the game, fact is I talk about both.
Notwithstanding all the community Q& A and follow up work I done after the trip.
Thats a little un-called for don't you think?
How about a fan just like any other of the thousands of entrants, who spent a whole month constructing a Video FAQ to enter into a competion to a game that he is interested in and ends up winning.
I put a lot of time and effort into my entry to better help the community and FYI it was well received.
I feel I don't have to defend AoC, I feel that people have to come up with better arguments to justify the misinformation they like to spread without ever stepping foot in game.
Its about posting your thoughts with your own opinion, and I just do that. Somethings I like, others I don't so much with the game, fact is I talk about both.
Notwithstanding all the community Q& A and follow up work I done after the trip.
you always pull out the "this or that player has never stepped in game" card. how would you know he hasnt? just cause he disagrees with you means he never played this game? because they assumably never played so what they are saying is a lie. yet the writing is on the wall and is quite obvious they are being quite truthfull. for people that have not stepped foot in the game, they sure know a hell of alot about what is really going on in the game cause i have played this and what they say is certainly not to far off from the truth i see as well...
Head Joint SoundCloud Page
https://soundcloud.com/headjointambient1
Thats a little un-called for don't you think?
How about a fan just like any other of the thousands of entrants, who spent a whole month constructing a Video FAQ to enter into a competion to a game that he is interested in and ends up winning.
I put a lot of time and effort into my entry to better help the community and FYI it was well received.
I feel I don't have to defend AoC, I feel that people have to come up with better arguments to justify the misinformation they like to spread without ever stepping foot in game.
Its about posting your thoughts with your own opinion, and I just do that. Somethings I like, others I don't so much with the game, fact is I talk about both.
Notwithstanding all the community Q& A and follow up work I done after the trip.
you always pull out the "this or that player has never stepped in game" card. how would you know he hasnt? just cause he disagrees with you means he never played this game? because they assumably never played so what they are saying is a lie. yet the writing is on the wall and is quite obvious they are being quite truthfull. for people that have not stepped foot in the game, they sure know a hell of alot about what is really going on in the game cause i have played this and what they say is certainly not to far off from the truth i see as well...
I'd say it was a general statement , It defintely wasn't directed at the poster he was replying to , That is obvious.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson