I would first of all like to thank you for this thread. We have had over 20 applications come in today, and a few were the result of this thread I'm sure.
That being said, I'd like to address a few points that you have brought up.
1. We're not accepting any and all applications. In fact, we're denying a lot of applicants that many other guilds would love to have. The fact of the matter is that we're getting 10-20 applicants every single day, and have been for quite a while now. Our applicants are some of the most experienced and hard core players that I have ever seen. Are we going to have some bad eggs at launch? Sure we are. Are we going to work quickly and weed out those bad eggs? Of course we are. Are we going to tolerate "lolipop theives", griefers, moochers, and the like? Not in the least little bit. We are going to promote, maintain, and constantly reward execeptional MMO etiquette and behavior. If someone has a bad experience with a member of our guild, I can guarantee you that our officers will not reply with "you deserved it" or "oh well". We take these matters very seriously.
2. We are constantly working to improve and maintain a solid guild structure. We will have separate teams, multiple class officers, recruiting officers, PVE team leads, PVP team leads, Race Leads, and assistant GMs to properly handle our large numbers. We will have a heirarchal grievance process, as well as defined officer roles. With a solid guild structure, we will be able to maintain order and in the process, become the largest and most effective fighting force on our server. We have multiple ventrillo servers available to accomodate our needs, including a 100 person main server. This was actually purchased by guild member donations which we have already had literally hundreds of dollars donated towards so that we will be able to properly maintain them. None of this was asked for I might add, it was all donated by players who know that Divinity will be their family while in game.
3. Warhammer is not WOW, DAOC, SWG, LOTRO or any other MMO. It is called WAR for a reason. With a guild our size, not only will our guild ranks grow exponentially, we will always have the option to break into equally sized, and jointly powerful guilds if the need arises. There is a reason that Destruction guilds hve been asking us to go to their servers. They want competition. It's a known fact that Destro guilds are out-numbering alliance 3:2, and by some estimates 2:1. If you are playing on an Open RvR server, would you rather have 200 people in your corner, or 40? If you are trying to defend your guild protected keep, would you rather have 40 people spread out over 24 hours, protecting it, or 200 people from multiple time zones, and varying play times protecting your precious living quarters?
Once again, thanks for this thread. I'm not one to get into heated debates. I just wanted to let you know that we have already thought about most of the points that you bring up. Our guild will be the home and kindleing flame of some of the best friendships, and fiercest warriors that this game will know.
I'm just glad that I will be able to be a small part in one of the best armies on the Order side.
If you have any questions, or comments, please feel free to message me. If you would like to apply to the guild, please do so. When doing so, please take your time with your application. We expect and enjoy well thought out applications from mature and well rounded players.
I have a question about your guild, are you taking classes into consideration? If your accpeting people without asking if they know a class they want to play, you may be screwed. Having 20-30 Warrior Priest and only 5-10 healers and 1-3 tanks, could be a problem. Just using those becasue WP seems to be the most wannabe played class on the forums and tanks on Order side seem to be little to none.
I have a question about your guild, are you taking classes into consideration? If your accpeting people without asking if they know a class they want to play, you may be screwed. Having 20-30 Warrior Priest and only 5-10 healers and 1-3 tanks, could be a problem. Just using those becasue WP seems to be the most wannabe played class on the forums and tanks on Order side seem to be little to none.
Right now we have a pretty even amount of every class, and WP, WL and IB are head by 1 or 2. But this is before OB and launch and this could all change. And let me remind you that each class have 3 paths so WP can be a healer or a DPS machine.
I have a question about your guild, are you taking classes into consideration? If your accpeting people without asking if they know a class they want to play, you may be screwed. Having 20-30 Warrior Priest and only 5-10 healers and 1-3 tanks, could be a problem. Just using those becasue WP seems to be the most wannabe played class on the forums and tanks on Order side seem to be little to none.
Right now we have a pretty even amount of every class, and WP, WL and IB are head by 1 or 2. But this is before OB and launch and this could all change. And let me remind you that each class have 3 paths so WP can be a healer or a DPS machine.
Hmm. I heard some people saying that specs wouldnt really matter in the end they would just give you a little edge on what ever you choose.
I think everyone is too quick to judge these guys. We are still dealing with an unreleased game, half of those members won't even join in game to begin with. This same thing happened to me in a guild for a release of EQ2. Had like 200 members pre game and about 50 once the game started. They are on the right track. So when they own your face, don't be jealous, but I'm sure half of you noobs will come back on here and whine and complain about how Divinity pwnt your noob Dark elf.
You're being a bit naïve if you think the guild you mentioned will be the only large guild to have a monopoly on all servers or server. It just won't happen because sooner or later the player community will organise to counter them. The balance of power will shift on servers between guilds though the games life span.
Megachurches or knitting circles...........When it comes down to it, the only thing that matters is that a Guild doesn't take itself too friggan seriously. it's a game, afterall....
I think everyone is too quick to judge these guys. We are still dealing with an unreleased game, half of those members won't even join in game to begin with. This same thing happened to me in a guild for a release of EQ2. Had like 200 members pre game and about 50 once the game started. They are on the right track. So when they own your face, don't be jealous, but I'm sure half of you noobs will come back on here and whine and complain about how Divinity pwnt your noob Dark elf. <modedit>
What you don't get is that we have about 50 members in closed beta. And well over 100 of us going into Open Beta along with Headstart. Are guild master has been in CB for like a year and know everything about this game. I really don't think you can have more of an advantage as a guild as we at divinity do. Most of you people are crazy thinking your getting anything done with less then 50 people in this game. To take a keep you probably need around 100-200 people. WAR is ment to have huge guilds that battle each other. Personally i think it will improve the gameplay vastly.
And there is no such thing as dominant large guilds in competitive games.
I will repeat... NO SUCH THING.
it goes against male nature, and these games are made up of mostly males.
Being elite means a small group of highly skilled indivituals. YOu cant be elite having open applications and welcome to all classes. THATS NOT ELITE.
And any guild that is actually large and has good players? Same thing that happens in every game. the best players.... we ALWAYS find eachother. Then we ALWAYS form the best groups comprised of the classes that have the best synergy and we roll over countless amounts of normal players.
this causes people in our guild to resent us because we dont include them in our dominance. But if we included you.... we wouldnt be elite and it would slow down our process.
This divide usually causes us to break off into our own guild. Once the elite break off there will always be a group that leaves as copycats to try and do the same thing by themselves. Losing this many quality players makes most guilds fold.
Hell, even in the description it says what I just did.
"the guild that formed after retribution broke up"
Wow was filled with large guilds until making smaller elite teams of 10 people was better for arena and raiding progress.
DAoC was dominated by zerg guilds in the beginng. I was in the #1 ranked guild from opening of the game until the 2nd year. We had 200 ACTIVE members. and everyone of us LOVED to zerg. this guild fell apart when the best players realised we could earn more points/money/respect by playing with better players in smaller groups.
What you don't get is that we have about 50 members in closed beta. And well over 100 of us going into Open Beta along with Headstart. Are guild master has been in CB for like a year and know everything about this game. I really don't think you can have more of an advantage as a guild as we at divinity do. Most of you people are crazy thinking your getting anything done with less then 50 people in this game. To take a keep you probably need around 100-200 people. WAR is ment to have huge guilds that battle each other. Personally i think it will improve the gameplay vastly.
OK.
Im old... like REALLY old.
I am not a young gamer and I do not have uber skills and I am too old to play 30 hours of gaming a week.
In saying this I am placing an open challenge to "divinity" as a guild.
My guild will have a higher points per player average than your guild by the end of year two of this game.
This is a friendly throwing down of the gauntlet and done with much love.
I have free CE of this game but wont be playing head start. My guild will never be more than 30 people... ever. I plan to have ONE main group and 11 active day to day players. I have been in CB and was even in ALPHA and the quests and classes are not even the same as they were six WEEKS ago, much less 12 months ago so thats not much of an advantage.
What you don't get is that we have about 50 members in closed beta. And well over 100 of us going into Open Beta along with Headstart. Are guild master has been in CB for like a year and know everything about this game. I really don't think you can have more of an advantage as a guild as we at divinity do. Most of you people are crazy thinking your getting anything done with less then 50 people in this game. To take a keep you probably need around 100-200 people. WAR is ment to have huge guilds that battle each other. Personally i think it will improve the gameplay vastly.
OK.
Im old... like REALLY old.
I am not a young gamer and I do not have uber skills and I am too old to play 30 hours of gaming a week.
In saying this I am placing an open challenge to "divinity" as a guild.
My guild will have a higher points per player average than your guild by the end of year two of this game.
This is a friendly throwing down of the gauntlet and done with much love.
I have free CE of this game but wont be playing head start. My guild will never be more than 30 people... ever. I plan to have ONE main group and 11 active day to day players. I have been in CB and was even in ALPHA and the quests and classes are not even the same as they were six WEEKS ago, much less 12 months ago so thats not much of an advantage.
Hasani
AKA Bishopx "pvp healer"
Hi Kraiden,
I'm not sure why you're even posting here as the thread is about large guilds and their impact on Warhammer online, not about 30 member guilds or about Divinity. Maybe you should post in the Divinity guild recruitment if thats a discussion youd like to have? or possibly PM anyone you'd like to talk to in Divinity i'm sure they'd love to have a nice conversation with you.
To the rest of the community:
This is an interesting topic and discussion going on here, and I think it’s very healthy for the community to talk about!
I wanted to share a post I made on War-rvr.com that someone posted on our guild recruitment thread I think is important for people to know (keep in mind its out of date, and all the numbers are much higher now, but it gives you a good idea of where we are coming from): This has to do with Divinity, but also answers the "big guild" question a bit
>>>> Begin Snip >>>>>
quote from Christopher Scott on War-RvR.com
Why would anyone want to be in a guild with 150 members? Other than a guild tag chances are nobody is ever going to know more than 10% of the people in the guild..
<<< End Quote>>>
What a great question Christopher, and well taken!
To answer it is simply this: Not everyone would want to be here!
We don't cater to everyone's needs and taste, but obviously we cater to many. Our organizational structure is set up so we can handle well beyond this mark, and into the 600 range. Our officers are preparing for that. There is a reason people are flocking to our guild. People that are both casual and hardcore, and people that are in the 20's 30's and 40's. It's because we have a sound structure in place, and the structure is built to handle an army.
This is a game of armies (we have over 20 in closed beta, and over 70 with CE's on top of that), and we know what it takes to succeed as a force in this game. We have many players that were in (and led) #1 guilds both in DAoC and in WoW, and we're carefully planning to make sure we accomplish that goal in WAR as well.
Some people like the atmosphere a smaller guild makes, and I absolutely respect that, but we are preparing for battle, and we are gathering our forces to take and hold the top keeps in the game. We have over 30 people who have already left their guilds to come here, around 40 that are coming just from word of mouth, and we are ready for them provided they have the skills we are looking for.
This isn't a zerg guild. We turn down many applications. This is a group of some of the most mature, dedicated people I’ve ever been a part of, and we are here to be a force.
I appreciate how you view us, and others will view us the same way. This is why there are 100's of guilds out there to choose from, but if you have what it takes and you want to be a part of something special I hope you'll give Divinity a try. You'll be glad you did.
Remember, I as the GM have the exact same voice as every other member of the guild. Our officer structure is set up to be a support structure not an enforcement structure. We vote on all important decisions of the game, and I have the exact same power of vote as anyone else in the guild. We have constructive discussions on the topics at hand, and we vote. You may not always win with your vote, but at least you know you have a voice and your vote counts which is more than 90% of the guilds out there can say.
I have no "friends" as officers, and we've only filled 6 spots of our eventual 26 spot support structure. The guild will be voting on most of these positions as well! I came and made this guild because there's a demand for something different out there! The time of tyrannical GMs and officers is fading fast, and we have a new breed of MMO'er looking for something better. I'm trying to provide that for them.
This guild doesn't live and die by the GM like most guilds, it breathes by it's members.
Thanks for the input again, and if you have any other questions I’d love to answer them!
-Gyn
>>>>>>> end snip >>>>>>>
Maybe that puts some things into perspective. That's what's great about the internet. There's so much diversity and different viewpoints on so many topics its amazing, and I try to take what people have to say no matter if its negative or positive and learn from it.
We have an amazing guild and amazing people in it, and i'm sure there are 100's of other guilds out there with amazing people in them as well. Will we lose people? Absolutely, i'm expecting 15-25% in fact immediately at release, but that percentage wont change outside of Divinity either.. many many 100's of guilds will have that loss as well, it's just a matter of if you are prepared for it or not. You don't lose people just because they don't like the guild (and that will happen too, like I stated before this guild isn't for everyone and I don't expect it to be!), you lose them for many reasons! People want to roll destruction instead of order, friends/family go to other guilds, server types are wrong from what people really want to be on, or maybe they lost interest in the game.. the list goes on and on.
Just like all the other guilds out there, we're trying to create something special that will build long-standing relationships and friendships for years to come. Are we the enemy because we happen to have more people than a lot of other guilds? I'm not sure why, there will be millions of players, a couple hundred is just a drop in the bucket. We're building this structure to form these relationships quite simply to have fun. After all it's a game isn't it? That's what where here for.. if you're not having fun, and your not enjoying the guild you're in why bother playing at all? Why bother staying in the guild?
I can't cater to everyone out there, and i'm not trying. What i'm trying to do is keep a quality of life up for the guild members i'm able to cater to via strong structure and organization (and of course some humor!) so they can be provided with the best possible gaming experience that I'm able to deliver. It's my duty as a GM, and it's the reason I formed the guild in the first place.
Thanks for the great discussion here, and I wish absolutely every guild out there the best of luck with years and years of success. I'm excited for release, and i'm sure you all are as well!
-Gyn
>>> Gynthazi <<< "Every man is a divinity in disguise, a God playing the fool." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
I'm not sure why you're even posting here as the thread is about large guilds and their impact on Warhammer online, not about 30 member guilds or about Divinity. Maybe you should post in the Divinity guild recruitment if thats a discussion youd like to have? or possibly PM anyone you'd like to talk to in Divinity i'm sure they'd love to have a nice conversation with you.
To the rest of the community:
This is an interesting topic and discussion going on here, and I think it’s very healthy for the community to talk about!
Well greetings to you fellow gamer!
Well, food for thought is the point of my post. bigger isnt always better. I have been around long enough on the mmorpg scene to see this happen over and over again. So I just posted from my experience. DAOC was created for large rvr as well. The keep structure is the same keep structure and the grouping size was actually larger...... and it still turned into elites finding eachother
UO actually became a FUN game, when us elite players started player killing the "carebears"
And even wow... the game that encouraged you to steamroll over computer controlled dragons for game progression .... eventually became a place where smaller groups began to excel.
So I dont think overly large guilds will have any major impact on the game, as I think in any competitive game you cant find a way for the players who are elite from breaking off.
The game also has a feature of alliances just like DAOC did. so smaller guilds will band together and do things. DAoC in the end wasnt about how well your GUILD was run, but how well one leader got all of the elite groups to work together inside of the alliance.
honestly, there's more big guilds than Divinity, and hopefully they're all on one server, and if not, hopefully they're all on a large server so they can have serious competition
Description: Divinity guild has been in many games, but this one specifically is named after the original divinity created on DAoC mordred after Retribution broke up. Divinity will be fighting on the side of ORDER, and will be heavily active in everything RvR and PvP related. We will set up weekly PvE Raids, RvR Raids, and PvP practice sessions in smaller groups. Divinity is looking for mature, well-versed MMOers that love online gaming, and more specifically the art of pkilling. If you are a team player, and want to join a solid group of people that are going to be living Warhammer Online for the next few years, stop by our guild and post an application!"
Now i'm all for order....
but if there are legions of them doing Organized RvR from day one the other side on that server is not gonna have a chance.
you honestly shouldnt have to worry about something like this, Divinity sounds like a idiot zerger guild where the people playing dont even know what they are doing, just mindlessly smashing their head against the keyboard hoping to win, sure, there will be a couple good playing in the guild, that is inevitable, but for the most part the others will drop like stones in pvp so there isnt much need to worry unless you are hopelessly outnumbered but there are always other people to help....E.g swg, a game with possibly the lowest population of a "major" mmorpg (not so major now, is it? ). When i played the nge there pvp'ing again some rebels a lot of times they would outnumber us (mainly because a lot of the people had the carbear, rp, noob vision of "YAY IM GOING TO BE A JEDI MASTER LIKE LUKE!!!WEEEE!!!!") i would just stop fighting them, hit up some friends, friends of friends, etc and before i knew it, we had equal numbers and were beating the crap out of the rebs....
so yeah, build friendships with a lot of people so when you need to, you can take out the zerger guilds
Of all my years of gaming sense the MUD's, best guilds are always med size. The ulimate guilds were never guilds to begin with but Alliances, it has been said here before, an Alliance with multiple 30 man guilds will do x10 better then a guild with all those numbers. You have the human factor and when numbers get that big allot of people disagree.
However in an Alliance, smaller guilds get along better because again as said, people know each other better and get along better. It is just the way of things.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Actually the top guilds in the height of every pvp games time was always a small guild.
EVERYONE thats played DAoC knows who BADLAM is.
That core group was 5 people.
FIVE
My Guild was ranked number one overall. We had nightly zergs of 40 members and ran our alliance... but when we looked at the daily and weekly totals, out 300 man guild was getting out earned in points by bedlam every week.
In WoW the top guilds are now the smaller groups/guilds that have formed as a result of the arena system. but wow isnt a pvp game at all so lets not count it.
UO was also about small packs of PK'er teams formed into a "clan"
Call of Duty 4 best teams are small... and thats a shooter... but its more of a team based pvp game than WOW is... so I will throw it in as well.
you also have to remember. the main portion of people playing this game will have come from daoc. In DAoC, eventhough the game was based around large groups we all had the mentality of making small elitist groups.
Actually the top guilds in the height of every pvp games time was always a small guild.
EVERYONE thats played DAoC knows who BADLAM is.
That care group was 5 people.
FIVE
My Guild was ranked number one overall. We had nightly zergs of 40 members and ran our alliance... but when we looked at the daily and weekly totals, out 300 man guild was getting out earned in points by bedlam every week.
In WoW the top guilds are now the smaller groups/guilds that have formed as a result of the arena system. but wow isnt a pvp game at all so lets not count it. UO was also about small packs of PK'er teams formed into a "clan" Call of Duty 4 best teams are small... and thats a shooter... but its more of a team based pvp game than WOW is... so I will throw it in as well.
you also have to remember. the main portion of people playing this game will have come from daoc. In DAoC, eventhough the game was based around large groups we all had the mentality of making small elitist groups.
Most players are gonna be coming from other MMOs most likely WoW
WoW-10mill DAOC- 250k where do you think most players will come from?
No such thing as luck, just believing in it is what makes it real to you and really...thats all you need.
I just love watching these google video clips of 8 man daoc elite groups killing 30 and 40 people.... before toa.
So just think about it, with equal gear and equal level you are killing 3-5 times as many other players at the same time... because your simply a better group of players.
guilds like bedlam even rerolled to other realms and player opposite classes and climbed BACK to the top again..... you never saw guilds on wow reroll. It was not a game noted for player skill. war is SO different from wow I dont see the wow players as being any type of threat.
So far in beta the wow players are actually not liking war and are falling behind in point totals in pvp combat... and usually its someone who used to play daoc who are the top in points according to what they are saying on other sites.
Were did you even think to throw in CoD4 into a MMO discussion? Shit some people are just stupid as hell. Obviously you idiots think its impossible to get quality with quantity.
"Too Large" as a guild size is very subjective and depends on both the game and the structure of the guild in question.
It's too early for anyone to know what's a logistically practical number of members in a guild to run with.
There's a "natural law" of membership when it comes to guild size -- it will correct itself if it's too large, whether from people going inactive (one of the most common issues), others who don't follow the guild's creed and members who form cliques and break off to form their own smaller guilds.
So no, don't worry about one guild taking over the server -- a guild can only control one keep at a time in WAR anyway, so they're not taking anything away from you.
Description: Divinity guild has been in many games, but this one specifically is named after the original divinity created on DAoC mordred after Retribution broke up. Divinity will be fighting on the side of ORDER, and will be heavily active in everything RvR and PvP related. We will set up weekly PvE Raids, RvR Raids, and PvP practice sessions in smaller groups. Divinity is looking for mature, well-versed MMOers that love online gaming, and more specifically the art of pkilling. If you are a team player, and want to join a solid group of people that are going to be living Warhammer Online for the next few years, stop by our guild and post an application!"
Now i'm all for order....
but if there are legions of them doing Organized RvR from day one the other side on that server is not gonna have a chance.
So come here and cry about it on forums.
Really...if you got issues with this devolp a organized resistance.
Don't try to cry the game into shackling the ability for players to make a impact on the game.
O and 230 strong.....that's a decent enough amount, but considering I've been in alliances in EVE with THOUSANDS, I don't think this is some ultimate game owning power unless the majority on this game are a bunch of pansies { Mod Edit }
Actually the top guilds in the height of every pvp games time was always a small guild.
EVERYONE thats played DAoC knows who BADLAM is.
That core group was 5 people.
FIVE
My Guild was ranked number one overall. We had nightly zergs of 40 members and ran our alliance... but when we looked at the daily and weekly totals, out 300 man guild was getting out earned in points by bedlam every week.
In WoW the top guilds are now the smaller groups/guilds that have formed as a result of the arena system. but wow isnt a pvp game at all so lets not count it. UO was also about small packs of PK'er teams formed into a "clan" Call of Duty 4 best teams are small... and thats a shooter... but its more of a team based pvp game than WOW is... so I will throw it in as well.
you also have to remember. the main portion of people playing this game will have come from daoc. In DAoC, eventhough the game was based around large groups we all had the mentality of making small elitist groups.
I must first say, that I'm rather surprised by your posts considering you are a staff member here. I will always listen to what other people have to say, and will always respect their opinions and try my best to view any topic from their eyes. However, I feel that your opinions seem rather closed minded, and you don't seem willing to even consider other player's opinions. To me, this is what I forum staff member should be striving to do. Once again, that's just my opinion.
I'm not sure where you are getting your information about DAOC players owning in pvp. If so, that's great! We have close to 50 members who are former DAOC players, including our GM, and a large majority of our core players. I'm not at liberty to talk about the Closed Beta, but I will gladldy do so once NDA is dropped. I will say that we're definately ready for game launch.
As a former WoW player, I must disagree with your claims however, but that is all I can say, due to the fact that I won't break NDA to give examples of my personal experience in game. Once again, I respect your opinion, but speculation is not what I'm here for. As a staff member, I would expect you to refrain from throwing out pure speculative "stats" that could damage a players opinion of a highly anticpated game pre launch. If you had factual evidence, that would be different.
Believe me, I am all for small guilds. Even as a member of a large guild, I have always loved interacting and forming friendships with smaller guilds. Divinity will be helping these smaller guilds any time we can, and we understand that they can be our largest allies in the fight against Destruction. I do find it rather odd that you would include COD 4 as part of your argument. I''ve been in one of the top COD4 core groups since release. I don't see any correlation at all, other than it requires teamwork and high playtime gamers who know their teammate's preferred actions and thoughts just as well as the teammate does.
That being said, I know that you are speaking of large guilds in general. Once again, as a staff member, I would have expected you to post your opinions on a forum that doesn't directly name a guild who's players and officers are working hard to develop a great opportunity for fellow gamers to have fun. It is in poor taste in my opinion. You argue that the only way to be successful is to have a small group of "core players". If you go to our website, read our forum posts, and look at our guild structure, you will see that this is exactly what we will have in place. We will have very small teams, who will interact with, get to know on a very personal basis, and fight with their respective teams on a daily basis. Divinity as a whole will be there for support, and will provide the large numbers that we will need for certain encounters. It will also limit the backlash from a core member leaving.
Anyway, I decided to post on this site with an Open Mind, and all I ask is that you do the same. I would also ask that in the future, if you have something negative to say about our guild, or our guild structure, you put yourself in the shoes of players who are working hard to make this work. We know that we will be successful, and I have no doubts that you will as well. I do however think it's rather pointless to "throw down the gauntlet" and challenge each other to see who will have the most points in two years, when we should all be here to have a good time. By the way, two years is an awfully long time
I will respond to any of your further posts via PM, as I do not feel that this discussion is productive for the game that I am looking forward to more so than any other game I have played.
Comments
I would first of all like to thank you for this thread. We have had over 20 applications come in today, and a few were the result of this thread I'm sure.
That being said, I'd like to address a few points that you have brought up.
1. We're not accepting any and all applications. In fact, we're denying a lot of applicants that many other guilds would love to have. The fact of the matter is that we're getting 10-20 applicants every single day, and have been for quite a while now. Our applicants are some of the most experienced and hard core players that I have ever seen. Are we going to have some bad eggs at launch? Sure we are. Are we going to work quickly and weed out those bad eggs? Of course we are. Are we going to tolerate "lolipop theives", griefers, moochers, and the like? Not in the least little bit. We are going to promote, maintain, and constantly reward execeptional MMO etiquette and behavior. If someone has a bad experience with a member of our guild, I can guarantee you that our officers will not reply with "you deserved it" or "oh well". We take these matters very seriously.
2. We are constantly working to improve and maintain a solid guild structure. We will have separate teams, multiple class officers, recruiting officers, PVE team leads, PVP team leads, Race Leads, and assistant GMs to properly handle our large numbers. We will have a heirarchal grievance process, as well as defined officer roles. With a solid guild structure, we will be able to maintain order and in the process, become the largest and most effective fighting force on our server. We have multiple ventrillo servers available to accomodate our needs, including a 100 person main server. This was actually purchased by guild member donations which we have already had literally hundreds of dollars donated towards so that we will be able to properly maintain them. None of this was asked for I might add, it was all donated by players who know that Divinity will be their family while in game.
3. Warhammer is not WOW, DAOC, SWG, LOTRO or any other MMO. It is called WAR for a reason. With a guild our size, not only will our guild ranks grow exponentially, we will always have the option to break into equally sized, and jointly powerful guilds if the need arises. There is a reason that Destruction guilds hve been asking us to go to their servers. They want competition. It's a known fact that Destro guilds are out-numbering alliance 3:2, and by some estimates 2:1. If you are playing on an Open RvR server, would you rather have 200 people in your corner, or 40? If you are trying to defend your guild protected keep, would you rather have 40 people spread out over 24 hours, protecting it, or 200 people from multiple time zones, and varying play times protecting your precious living quarters?
Once again, thanks for this thread. I'm not one to get into heated debates. I just wanted to let you know that we have already thought about most of the points that you bring up. Our guild will be the home and kindleing flame of some of the best friendships, and fiercest warriors that this game will know.
I'm just glad that I will be able to be a small part in one of the best armies on the Order side.
If you have any questions, or comments, please feel free to message me. If you would like to apply to the guild, please do so. When doing so, please take your time with your application. We expect and enjoy well thought out applications from mature and well rounded players.
Jim
Coming at you soon with an Army that would make baby Sigmar cry!
http://divinityguild.org
I have a question about your guild, are you taking classes into consideration? If your accpeting people without asking if they know a class they want to play, you may be screwed. Having 20-30 Warrior Priest and only 5-10 healers and 1-3 tanks, could be a problem. Just using those becasue WP seems to be the most wannabe played class on the forums and tanks on Order side seem to be little to none.
Currently restarting World of Warcraft
Right now we have a pretty even amount of every class, and WP, WL and IB are head by 1 or 2. But this is before OB and launch and this could all change. And let me remind you that each class have 3 paths so WP can be a healer or a DPS machine.
Right now we have a pretty even amount of every class, and WP, WL and IB are head by 1 or 2. But this is before OB and launch and this could all change. And let me remind you that each class have 3 paths so WP can be a healer or a DPS machine.
Hmm. I heard some people saying that specs wouldnt really matter in the end they would just give you a little edge on what ever you choose.
Currently restarting World of Warcraft
I couldn't tell ya since im not in beta, and if i was i couldn't tell ya anyway
I think everyone is too quick to judge these guys. We are still dealing with an unreleased game, half of those members won't even join in game to begin with. This same thing happened to me in a guild for a release of EQ2. Had like 200 members pre game and about 50 once the game started. They are on the right track. So when they own your face, don't be jealous, but I'm sure half of you noobs will come back on here and whine and complain about how Divinity pwnt your noob Dark elf.
<modedit>
Pat "Hulk" Kolson
You're being a bit naïve if you think the guild you mentioned will be the only large guild to have a monopoly on all servers or server. It just won't happen because sooner or later the player community will organise to counter them. The balance of power will shift on servers between guilds though the games life span.
Megachurches or knitting circles...........When it comes down to it, the only thing that matters is that a Guild doesn't take itself too friggan seriously. it's a game, afterall....
What you don't get is that we have about 50 members in closed beta. And well over 100 of us going into Open Beta along with Headstart. Are guild master has been in CB for like a year and know everything about this game. I really don't think you can have more of an advantage as a guild as we at divinity do. Most of you people are crazy thinking your getting anything done with less then 50 people in this game. To take a keep you probably need around 100-200 people. WAR is ment to have huge guilds that battle each other. Personally i think it will improve the gameplay vastly.
There is no such thing as large "elite" guilds.
And there is no such thing as dominant large guilds in competitive games.
I will repeat... NO SUCH THING.
it goes against male nature, and these games are made up of mostly males.
Being elite means a small group of highly skilled indivituals. YOu cant be elite having open applications and welcome to all classes. THATS NOT ELITE.
And any guild that is actually large and has good players? Same thing that happens in every game. the best players.... we ALWAYS find eachother. Then we ALWAYS form the best groups comprised of the classes that have the best synergy and we roll over countless amounts of normal players.
this causes people in our guild to resent us because we dont include them in our dominance. But if we included you.... we wouldnt be elite and it would slow down our process.
This divide usually causes us to break off into our own guild. Once the elite break off there will always be a group that leaves as copycats to try and do the same thing by themselves. Losing this many quality players makes most guilds fold.
Hell, even in the description it says what I just did.
"the guild that formed after retribution broke up"
Wow was filled with large guilds until making smaller elite teams of 10 people was better for arena and raiding progress.
DAoC was dominated by zerg guilds in the beginng. I was in the #1 ranked guild from opening of the game until the 2nd year. We had 200 ACTIVE members. and everyone of us LOVED to zerg. this guild fell apart when the best players realised we could earn more points/money/respect by playing with better players in smaller groups.
same thing will happen in war, its human nature.
OK.
Im old... like REALLY old.
I am not a young gamer and I do not have uber skills and I am too old to play 30 hours of gaming a week.
In saying this I am placing an open challenge to "divinity" as a guild.
My guild will have a higher points per player average than your guild by the end of year two of this game.
This is a friendly throwing down of the gauntlet
I have free CE of this game but wont be playing head start. My guild will never be more than 30 people... ever. I plan to have ONE main group and 11 active day to day players. I have been in CB and was even in ALPHA and the quests and classes are not even the same as they were six WEEKS ago, much less 12 months ago so thats not much of an advantage.
Hasani
AKA Bishopx "pvp healer"
OK.
Im old... like REALLY old.
I am not a young gamer and I do not have uber skills and I am too old to play 30 hours of gaming a week.
In saying this I am placing an open challenge to "divinity" as a guild.
My guild will have a higher points per player average than your guild by the end of year two of this game.
This is a friendly throwing down of the gauntlet
I have free CE of this game but wont be playing head start. My guild will never be more than 30 people... ever. I plan to have ONE main group and 11 active day to day players. I have been in CB and was even in ALPHA and the quests and classes are not even the same as they were six WEEKS ago, much less 12 months ago so thats not much of an advantage.
Hasani
AKA Bishopx "pvp healer"
Hi Kraiden,
I'm not sure why you're even posting here as the thread is about large guilds and their impact on Warhammer online, not about 30 member guilds or about Divinity. Maybe you should post in the Divinity guild recruitment if thats a discussion youd like to have? or possibly PM anyone you'd like to talk to in Divinity i'm sure they'd love to have a nice conversation with you.
To the rest of the community:
This is an interesting topic and discussion going on here, and I think it’s very healthy for the community to talk about!
I wanted to share a post I made on War-rvr.com that someone posted on our guild recruitment thread I think is important for people to know (keep in mind its out of date, and all the numbers are much higher now, but it gives you a good idea of where we are coming from): This has to do with Divinity, but also answers the "big guild" question a bit
>>>> Begin Snip >>>>>
quote from Christopher Scott on War-RvR.com
Why would anyone want to be in a guild with 150 members? Other than a guild tag chances are nobody is ever going to know more than 10% of the people in the guild..
<<< End Quote>>>
What a great question Christopher, and well taken!
To answer it is simply this: Not everyone would want to be here!
We don't cater to everyone's needs and taste, but obviously we cater to many. Our organizational structure is set up so we can handle well beyond this mark, and into the 600 range. Our officers are preparing for that. There is a reason people are flocking to our guild. People that are both casual and hardcore, and people that are in the 20's 30's and 40's. It's because we have a sound structure in place, and the structure is built to handle an army.
This is a game of armies (we have over 20 in closed beta, and over 70 with CE's on top of that), and we know what it takes to succeed as a force in this game. We have many players that were in (and led) #1 guilds both in DAoC and in WoW, and we're carefully planning to make sure we accomplish that goal in WAR as well.
Some people like the atmosphere a smaller guild makes, and I absolutely respect that, but we are preparing for battle, and we are gathering our forces to take and hold the top keeps in the game. We have over 30 people who have already left their guilds to come here, around 40 that are coming just from word of mouth, and we are ready for them provided they have the skills we are looking for.
This isn't a zerg guild. We turn down many applications. This is a group of some of the most mature, dedicated people I’ve ever been a part of, and we are here to be a force.
I appreciate how you view us, and others will view us the same way. This is why there are 100's of guilds out there to choose from, but if you have what it takes and you want to be a part of something special I hope you'll give Divinity a try. You'll be glad you did.
Remember, I as the GM have the exact same voice as every other member of the guild. Our officer structure is set up to be a support structure not an enforcement structure. We vote on all important decisions of the game, and I have the exact same power of vote as anyone else in the guild. We have constructive discussions on the topics at hand, and we vote. You may not always win with your vote, but at least you know you have a voice and your vote counts which is more than 90% of the guilds out there can say.
I have no "friends" as officers, and we've only filled 6 spots of our eventual 26 spot support structure. The guild will be voting on most of these positions as well! I came and made this guild because there's a demand for something different out there! The time of tyrannical GMs and officers is fading fast, and we have a new breed of MMO'er looking for something better. I'm trying to provide that for them.
This guild doesn't live and die by the GM like most guilds, it breathes by it's members.
Thanks for the input again, and if you have any other questions I’d love to answer them!
-Gyn
>>>>>>> end snip >>>>>>>
Maybe that puts some things into perspective. That's what's great about the internet. There's so much diversity and different viewpoints on so many topics its amazing, and I try to take what people have to say no matter if its negative or positive and learn from it.
We have an amazing guild and amazing people in it, and i'm sure there are 100's of other guilds out there with amazing people in them as well. Will we lose people? Absolutely, i'm expecting 15-25% in fact immediately at release, but that percentage wont change outside of Divinity either.. many many 100's of guilds will have that loss as well, it's just a matter of if you are prepared for it or not. You don't lose people just because they don't like the guild (and that will happen too, like I stated before this guild isn't for everyone and I don't expect it to be!), you lose them for many reasons! People want to roll destruction instead of order, friends/family go to other guilds, server types are wrong from what people really want to be on, or maybe they lost interest in the game.. the list goes on and on.
Just like all the other guilds out there, we're trying to create something special that will build long-standing relationships and friendships for years to come. Are we the enemy because we happen to have more people than a lot of other guilds? I'm not sure why, there will be millions of players, a couple hundred is just a drop in the bucket. We're building this structure to form these relationships quite simply to have fun. After all it's a game isn't it? That's what where here for.. if you're not having fun, and your not enjoying the guild you're in why bother playing at all? Why bother staying in the guild?
I can't cater to everyone out there, and i'm not trying. What i'm trying to do is keep a quality of life up for the guild members i'm able to cater to via strong structure and organization (and of course some humor!) so they can be provided with the best possible gaming experience that I'm able to deliver. It's my duty as a GM, and it's the reason I formed the guild in the first place.
Thanks for the great discussion here, and I wish absolutely every guild out there the best of luck with years and years of success. I'm excited for release, and i'm sure you all are as well!
-Gyn
>>> Gynthazi <<<
"Every man is a divinity in disguise, a God playing the fool." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
Hi Kraiden,
I'm not sure why you're even posting here as the thread is about large guilds and their impact on Warhammer online, not about 30 member guilds or about Divinity. Maybe you should post in the Divinity guild recruitment if thats a discussion youd like to have? or possibly PM anyone you'd like to talk to in Divinity i'm sure they'd love to have a nice conversation with you.
To the rest of the community:
This is an interesting topic and discussion going on here, and I think it’s very healthy for the community to talk about!
Well greetings to you fellow gamer!
Well, food for thought is the point of my post. bigger isnt always better. I have been around long enough on the mmorpg scene to see this happen over and over again. So I just posted from my experience. DAOC was created for large rvr as well. The keep structure is the same keep structure and the grouping size was actually larger...... and it still turned into elites finding eachother
UO actually became a FUN game, when us elite players started player killing the "carebears"
And even wow... the game that encouraged you to steamroll over computer controlled dragons for game progression .... eventually became a place where smaller groups began to excel.
So I dont think overly large guilds will have any major impact on the game, as I think in any competitive game you cant find a way for the players who are elite from breaking off.
The game also has a feature of alliances just like DAOC did. so smaller guilds will band together and do things. DAoC in the end wasnt about how well your GUILD was run, but how well one leader got all of the elite groups to work together inside of the alliance.
I feel the same will happen in WAR
honestly, there's more big guilds than Divinity, and hopefully they're all on one server, and if not, hopefully they're all on a large server so they can have serious competition
you honestly shouldnt have to worry about something like this, Divinity sounds like a idiot zerger guild where the people playing dont even know what they are doing, just mindlessly smashing their head against the keyboard hoping to win, sure, there will be a couple good playing in the guild, that is inevitable, but for the most part the others will drop like stones in pvp so there isnt much need to worry unless you are hopelessly outnumbered but there are always other people to help....E.g swg, a game with possibly the lowest population of a "major" mmorpg (not so major now, is it?
). When i played the nge there pvp'ing again some rebels a lot of times they would outnumber us (mainly because a lot of the people had the carbear, rp, noob vision of "YAY IM GOING TO BE A JEDI MASTER LIKE LUKE!!!WEEEE!!!!") i would just stop fighting them, hit up some friends, friends of friends, etc and before i knew it, we had equal numbers and were beating the crap out of the rebs....
so yeah, build friendships with a lot of people so when you need to, you can take out the zerger guilds
Of all my years of gaming sense the MUD's, best guilds are always med size. The ulimate guilds were never guilds to begin with but Alliances, it has been said here before, an Alliance with multiple 30 man guilds will do x10 better then a guild with all those numbers. You have the human factor and when numbers get that big allot of people disagree.
However in an Alliance, smaller guilds get along better because again as said, people know each other better and get along better. It is just the way of things.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Actually the top guilds in the height of every pvp games time was always a small guild.
EVERYONE thats played DAoC knows who BADLAM is.
That core group was 5 people.
FIVE
My Guild was ranked number one overall. We had nightly zergs of 40 members and ran our alliance... but when we looked at the daily and weekly totals, out 300 man guild was getting out earned in points by bedlam every week.
In WoW the top guilds are now the smaller groups/guilds that have formed as a result of the arena system. but wow isnt a pvp game at all so lets not count it.
UO was also about small packs of PK'er teams formed into a "clan"
Call of Duty 4 best teams are small... and thats a shooter... but its more of a team based pvp game than WOW is... so I will throw it in as well.
you also have to remember. the main portion of people playing this game will have come from daoc. In DAoC, eventhough the game was based around large groups we all had the mentality of making small elitist groups.
Most players are gonna be coming from other MMOs most likely WoW
WoW-10mill DAOC- 250k where do you think most players will come from?
No such thing as luck, just believing in it is what makes it real to you and really...thats all you need.
Im on nobodies' side but my own.
I just love watching these google video clips of 8 man daoc elite groups killing 30 and 40 people.... before toa.
So just think about it, with equal gear and equal level you are killing 3-5 times as many other players at the same time... because your simply a better group of players.
guilds like bedlam even rerolled to other realms and player opposite classes and climbed BACK to the top again..... you never saw guilds on wow reroll. It was not a game noted for player skill. war is SO different from wow I dont see the wow players as being any type of threat.
So far in beta the wow players are actually not liking war and are falling behind in point totals in pvp combat... and usually its someone who used to play daoc who are the top in points according to what they are saying on other sites.
Were did you even think to throw in CoD4 into a MMO discussion? Shit some people are just stupid as hell. Obviously you idiots think its impossible to get quality with quantity.
"Too Large" as a guild size is very subjective and depends on both the game and the structure of the guild in question.
It's too early for anyone to know what's a logistically practical number of members in a guild to run with.
There's a "natural law" of membership when it comes to guild size -- it will correct itself if it's too large, whether from people going inactive (one of the most common issues), others who don't follow the guild's creed and members who form cliques and break off to form their own smaller guilds.
So no, don't worry about one guild taking over the server -- a guild can only control one keep at a time in WAR anyway, so they're not taking anything away from you.
Could someone send me a link to a beginners guide in DAoC? i thought i would check it out real quick before WAR starts
So come here and cry about it on forums.
Really...if you got issues with this devolp a organized resistance.
Don't try to cry the game into shackling the ability for players to make a impact on the game.
O and 230 strong.....that's a decent enough amount, but considering I've been in alliances in EVE with THOUSANDS, I don't think this is some ultimate game owning power unless the majority on this game are a bunch of pansies { Mod Edit }
SHOHADAKU
I must first say, that I'm rather surprised by your posts considering you are a staff member here. I will always listen to what other people have to say, and will always respect their opinions and try my best to view any topic from their eyes. However, I feel that your opinions seem rather closed minded, and you don't seem willing to even consider other player's opinions. To me, this is what I forum staff member should be striving to do. Once again, that's just my opinion.
I'm not sure where you are getting your information about DAOC players owning in pvp. If so, that's great! We have close to 50 members who are former DAOC players, including our GM, and a large majority of our core players. I'm not at liberty to talk about the Closed Beta, but I will gladldy do so once NDA is dropped. I will say that we're definately ready for game launch.
As a former WoW player, I must disagree with your claims however, but that is all I can say, due to the fact that I won't break NDA to give examples of my personal experience in game. Once again, I respect your opinion, but speculation is not what I'm here for. As a staff member, I would expect you to refrain from throwing out pure speculative "stats" that could damage a players opinion of a highly anticpated game pre launch. If you had factual evidence, that would be different.
Believe me, I am all for small guilds. Even as a member of a large guild, I have always loved interacting and forming friendships with smaller guilds. Divinity will be helping these smaller guilds any time we can, and we understand that they can be our largest allies in the fight against Destruction. I do find it rather odd that you would include COD 4 as part of your argument. I''ve been in one of the top COD4 core groups since release. I don't see any correlation at all, other than it requires teamwork and high playtime gamers who know their teammate's preferred actions and thoughts just as well as the teammate does.
That being said, I know that you are speaking of large guilds in general. Once again, as a staff member, I would have expected you to post your opinions on a forum that doesn't directly name a guild who's players and officers are working hard to develop a great opportunity for fellow gamers to have fun. It is in poor taste in my opinion. You argue that the only way to be successful is to have a small group of "core players". If you go to our website, read our forum posts, and look at our guild structure, you will see that this is exactly what we will have in place. We will have very small teams, who will interact with, get to know on a very personal basis, and fight with their respective teams on a daily basis. Divinity as a whole will be there for support, and will provide the large numbers that we will need for certain encounters. It will also limit the backlash from a core member leaving.
Anyway, I decided to post on this site with an Open Mind, and all I ask is that you do the same. I would also ask that in the future, if you have something negative to say about our guild, or our guild structure, you put yourself in the shoes of players who are working hard to make this work. We know that we will be successful, and I have no doubts that you will as well. I do however think it's rather pointless to "throw down the gauntlet" and challenge each other to see who will have the most points in two years, when we should all be here to have a good time. By the way, two years is an awfully long time
I will respond to any of your further posts via PM, as I do not feel that this discussion is productive for the game that I am looking forward to more so than any other game I have played.
With all respect,
Jim
Http://divinityguild.org
Coming at you soon with an Army that would make baby Sigmar cry!
http://divinityguild.org
read through all previous posts before you reply,
its only common sense.