I know lots of gamers irl. My brothers are MMO gamers, my G/F is a gamer, my nephew is a gamer, several of my longest friendships are with gamers, co-workers are gamers, etc. Some of us played computer games since before there were ever MMORPGs, we played D&D together, and started playing UO together, etc. We all pay attention to up-and-coming games. Most games get good hype before release, but cannot sustain success. (ie: POTBS, Vanguard, etc). Games are released too early and no matter how good they fix it later, they no longer have the momentum for success... or there simply aren't enough customers to populate a good game and make it successful, etc. So here's my point: We all agree that WAR will probably have some success when it's released... but then when I ask everyone, none of them actually plan to buy this game. Neither do I. Why not? Lots of different reasons. Mainly: none of us will jump on board unless ALL of us want to jump onboard. This game targets such a specific gaming audience, it isn't broad enough to satisfy many interests. This is a game about large-scale faction-on-faction pvp (which, if you read between the lines, means lots of instances). Not too immersive, not very community-oriented, and not really designed for those who like housing and crafting. So, when you look past the hype (as you MUST DO in MMO game releases), I don't see this being a vast mega-game like WoW is. - Phos
You dont understand what RvR means do you? I could argue with all of your points but there is no point to that. You stay with your WoW. It offers gear grind.....rep grind.....ummmmm gear grind and.......oh yea rep grind. If you feel WAR is not for you, thats cool. No game is for everyone. I think you will find in time though that WAR has alot more to offer than you give it credit for, and you and your friends will be smacking your heads asking why you didnt get it sooner.
Nope its not new. DAOC started it. Calm down guy, sorry I didnt get to reply to you as soon as you would have liked. I dont mind wasting my time on someone who doesnt understand the idea of RvR. However RvR is about the community pulling togeather to achive a goal which is why I highlighted the OP saying WAR didnt offer any community oriented options. Its the exact oposite. Mythic wants the community to grow and help eachother thus....realm vs. realm and not me vs. you.
I can only assume you dont understand any idea beyond "I'm gonna help me and mine get ours". I spose though you would rather call all thoes ex-doac players liars about how much they enjoyed Mythics RvR in that game. So whatever, you can call it a hype tool all you want. I will sit here, understanding what Mythic is trying to accomplish with there RvR system and have a blast in the game.
As a counterpoint, there's nothing wrong with a developer picking a popular aspect of gameplay and striving to deliver the best product available for that market. I mean, when a new fighting game comes out on console you don't see people pissing and moaning about how it doesn't cater to fans of real-time strategy. They just go find a real-time strategy game. Why should things be any different for MMORPGs?
Good point. I agree. But this is the very quality that boxes WAR into a niche corner that limits the spectrum of customers who might otherwise play it.
- Phos
I'm all about PVE yet I am exremely excited for WAR.
Reasons:
1. Even without playing it the world seems to draw me in. It just seems like a great place to adventure.
2. Even if there is less PVE than PVP it is still NEW pve, aka not WoW or many of the other games I have been playing.
3. I am kind of excited to try a new aspect of gaming. I played WoW for three years and did maybe 3 battlegrounds. Maybe WAR will actually get me into PVP.
4. There are just tons of small things about this game that get me all fidgety. Like your character aging and carrying "trophies".
As a counterpoint, there's nothing wrong with a developer picking a popular aspect of gameplay and striving to deliver the best product available for that market. I mean, when a new fighting game comes out on console you don't see people pissing and moaning about how it doesn't cater to fans of real-time strategy. They just go find a real-time strategy game. Why should things be any different for MMORPGs?
Good point. I agree. But this is the very quality that boxes WAR into a niche corner that limits the spectrum of customers who might otherwise play it.
- Phos
I'm all about PVE yet I am exremely excited for WAR.
Reasons:
1. Even without playing it the world seems to draw me in. It just seems like a great place to adventure.
2. Even if there is less PVE than PVP it is still NEW pve, aka not WoW or many of the other games I have been playing.
3. I am kind of excited to try a new aspect of gaming. I played WoW for three years and did maybe 3 battlegrounds. Maybe WAR will actually get me into PVP.
4. There are just tons of small things about this game that get me all fidgety. Like your character aging and carrying "trophies".
Not to bum you out but the aging thing was removed a few months ago. They said it may make it back in, but its on the backburner for a bit. The trophies are sitll in though.
As a counterpoint, there's nothing wrong with a developer picking a popular aspect of gameplay and striving to deliver the best product available for that market. I mean, when a new fighting game comes out on console you don't see people pissing and moaning about how it doesn't cater to fans of real-time strategy. They just go find a real-time strategy game. Why should things be any different for MMORPGs?
Good point. I agree. But this is the very quality that boxes WAR into a niche corner that limits the spectrum of customers who might otherwise play it.
- Phos
I'm all about PVE yet I am exremely excited for WAR.
Reasons:
1. Even without playing it the world seems to draw me in. It just seems like a great place to adventure.
2. Even if there is less PVE than PVP it is still NEW pve, aka not WoW or many of the other games I have been playing.
3. I am kind of excited to try a new aspect of gaming. I played WoW for three years and did maybe 3 battlegrounds. Maybe WAR will actually get me into PVP.
4. There are just tons of small things about this game that get me all fidgety. Like your character aging and carrying "trophies".
Not to bum you out but the aging thing was removed a few months ago. They said it may make it back in, but its on the backburner for a bit. The trophies are sitll in though.
Oh darn. Well I didnt really start paying attnetion to the game until about a month ago so Im not surprised I missed that. Still, the game seems to have a fresh take on a lot of things (or amped up versions of things already in many games, which is fine) so I am excited.
I kind of agree with the OP about holding off on buying the game. I have a lot of faith in Mythic as a company (less in EA but they seem to be getting a little smarter) but in a way I'm afraid the game will turn out to be a bust. The game seems like it will be something exciting and new. RvR is what WoW should have had for PvP rather than the battlegrounds and their current PvP. It looks like this could turn out to be a very fun game.
The only thing I disagree with the OP on is the community. RvR would only really work if there are people working together. Its one of the major things drawing to me to the game and making me think I may pick it up at launch.
I agree. New MMO titles over TIME will bring down WoW subscribers. However, I would not be surprised that it still has some followers in ten years time. Just look at Ultima Online etc.
Next really big things will no doubt be Bioware's MMO and of course what Blizzard puts out for the genre. I would not be surprised if Blizzard announces a new MMO after Diablo III is out.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
I dont think anyone seriously believe tha WAR is going to beat WoW or anything.. I think the OP have a point that WAR caters to a specific crowd (niche?) while WoW is something for everyone and a large part of why WoW is so sucesfull! But to compete with WoWs numbers you have to be able to beat them in every aspect of the game which is pretty hard if you are not Blizzard...
Look at LotrO... Turbine decided to make a more story driven and PvE oriented game and (IMO) is better than WoW when it comes to thoose things.. The game wasnt designed for the PvP and Raiding crowd so it doesnt beat WoW in thoose aspects and therefor will never be a huge game like WoW but instead will have a focused communtiy that enjoys thoose aspects which it excels in!
And then look at AoC... I think that the main reason why AoC turned out to be such a dissapointment to alot of people is because they marketed is as a game for everyone (18+).. Different crafting and guild citys so the crafters were excited... Lots of raids so the hardcore raiders were excited.. World PvP so the gankers were excited.. Large sieges and "mini-games" so the PvPers were excited... now pretty much everyone except the causals hate the game because it does neither of thoose things very well!
WAR is all about the RvR and will (probably) be the best large scale PvP MMO on the market and nothing else! If thats not what you are looking for then keep playing WoW
(I will play WAR for PvP and LotrO for PvE by the way because I want the best of both worlds )
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
This game targets such a specific gaming audience, it isn't broad enough to satisfy many interests. This is a game about large-scale faction-on-faction pvp (which, if you read between the lines, means lots of instances). Not too immersive, not very community-oriented, and not really designed for those who like housing and crafting. So, when you look past the hype (as you MUST DO in MMO game releases), I don't see this being a vast mega-game like WoW is. - Phos
Target specific audience? I thought that too last year, and even last month. I don't pvp, I'm not social so I let this game fly under my radar for a year. I was wrong, 2 weeks ago I was bored and checked in details all the info and even though I'm not the target audience this is the first MMO to be released in the past 5 years that I think will finally get me to play for months.
Lots of instances? Compared to AoC it hardly has any, compared to Wow is has a bit more
Immersive is a subjective term, it depends on your taste. Personally what gets me immersed is purpose and this game has it.
Not community oriented? Man... you are smoking something weird there, this is the most community oriented MMO to be released ever! That's actually the main reason I didn't want to play it
Housing? Well find me a recent game with it
Crafting? Actually better than wow from the video I've seen, but that's not saying much since wow system can hardly be called crafting
Nobody expect any MMO to beat wow in term of sheer number, that's extremely unlikely. But this game does have the most potential of all the mmos to be released since then to be very successful. My guess is that it will start with around 500k sub and after 1-2 years climb to 1 million at it's peak. Of course, it all depends on the launch, until then we're very much in the dark.
Unless you're going to be buying shares in Mythic Entertainment, why does everyone seem relate a good game to a successful game. I for one loved Chameleon Twist for my N64 back in the day - most people haven't even heard of it. It was, in my opinion, a good platform game; it wasn't successful. Niche markets do not ruin a game and I highly doubt from the PvE content features ( such as Public Quests and counters outside of quests aiding to future quests ) will go unnoticed.
Point B - The PvP Aspect.
I find it amusing that the PvP aspect seems to make this a 'niche' PvP game. And yet, if you look at the giant ( WoW ) the majority of its top players and its general population reside not on Normal ruleset, but on PvP ruleset? Why? A good question.
Games that bombed, such as Age of Conan - although I'm not convinced it bombed ( but I am convinced I didn't like the focus on a female chest and gore ) - note that the majority of their players are PvPers. Games like Tabula Rasa are striving now to add PvP content. I find it strange that we're sitting here viewing a game that contains, apparantly, heavy loads of both as a negative simply because it does favour one over the other.
Point C - New Kid on the Block? Or Next Big Thing!
This can only be proven on its launch. The new game factor can be both a good thing, yes it may even prove a great thing when competing with older games. But because it hasn't had the years of content added it may also be a poor thing - only a release will answer that question.
WoW will fall (note that it won't fall/ topple and be utterly destroyed never to be played again) once several titles take away from it's player base and hold them successfully. Then the WoW machine will slow down, servers will consolidate and it will reduce itself down to an EQ level (over time). WoW made the industry what it is today (in terms of 'everyone' knowing what online gaming 'is'). It's still big and strong. It will dwindle over time. That's it.
Old systems can't be revamped so much that 10 years from now, WoW will still ride the crest of the wave. If it could and they thought it would, Blizzard wouldn't be working on a new game . Right now the biggest and best factor in terms of gaming is that everything that has come out in the past 2 years has been junk. Many of the F2P games are better than the new P2P ones out. WoW is riding it's own hype because there's nothing else out there.
Will there be other non-WoW games as big as WoW in the future? Almost guaranteed. Will WAR be one maybe/maybe not. We aren't privy to Mythic's 'Game Plan'. When I say Game Plan, I mean the plan for their company. What is a successful launch to them? 1 Million RTM purchases and hold 500K consistently for a year? 2 million sales and hold 300K? Only they know. I think Mythic has played this (figuratively) very carefully in terms of planning and development. They aren't expecting to take even 50% of WoW's market before they call WAR a success.
As long as it's a success to Mythic (and the players who stay with the game) WAR will take a bite out of WoW and go happily along making money for it's parent company for a long time to come.
I'm not sure which post I was responding to here. It's early and I'm still on my first cup of coffee but there you go.
Sorry for the slight interruption, this thread can now resume normal operation i hope.
Do you feel like being funny and powerful if you delete 15 posts in a row that did not break any rules. I feel ashamed being from the same country as you are.
Well, NDA is all about selling the hype and not the game itself.
All I can say is that I've got enough information to cancel my pre-order. And it's in deep sorrow I say this, not in anyway because I'm trying to trash the game in purpose. I was really looking forward to it, but as I said in another post... you can't aim lower than a game that already exists, especially not over 3½ years later.
you can't aim lower than a game that already exists, especially not over 3½ years later.
.... you mean wow? Your kidding right? I hate Wow, i didnt even buy it until 2 years after it came out and only because it was $20. I had to force myself to play more than an hour because I hate wasting money for nothing. Warhammer is nothing like wow, do some deep research and you'll see that
WoW will fall (note that it won't fall/ topple and be utterly destroyed never to be played again) once several titles take away from it's player base and hold them successfully. Then the WoW machine will slow down, servers will consolidate and it will reduce itself down to an EQ level (over time). WoW made the industry what it is today (in terms of 'everyone' knowing what online gaming 'is'). It's still big and strong. It will dwindle over time. That's it.
I'm glad that someone else besides me understands history enough to realize what's going to happen with WoW.
This is why there isn't *A* WoW-killer. WAR could succeed in every aspect imaginable and all you're going to see is -- I know this is hard for some to believe -- both games existing in harmony.
you can't aim lower than a game that already exists, especially not over 3½ years later.
.... you mean wow? Your kidding right? I hate Wow, i didnt even buy it until 2 years after it came out and only because it was $20. I had to force myself to play more than an hour because I hate wasting money for nothing. Warhammer is nothing like wow, do some deep research and you'll see that
I would agree except either he is in beta and saw enough that he feels its like WoW (though it seems alot dont feel that way that are in beta) or he wasnt really looking forward to the game like he claims. REALLY looking forward to a game and even pre-ordering it would say he did at least some research beyond a beta video here and there. If he "all of a sudden" think its like wow after he was "really looking forward to it" and "cancled his pre-order" (saying he pre-ordered) I find it hard to believe. Like I said, thats assuming he wasnt in beta.
To each there own though. Hell, if WAR turns out to be WoW2 without rep grind, gear grind simply because gear determins how good you are then I will be happy. WoW is all about gear gear gear and nothing else IMO and thats why I hate it. It may be "dumbed down" but I had fun leveling at first. Its when it turned into a HUGE gear grind and gear really REALLY matters that I got turned off.
WoW will fall (note that it won't fall/ topple and be utterly destroyed never to be played again) once several titles take away from it's player base and hold them successfully. Then the WoW machine will slow down, servers will consolidate and it will reduce itself down to an EQ level (over time). WoW made the industry what it is today (in terms of 'everyone' knowing what online gaming 'is'). It's still big and strong. It will dwindle over time. That's it.
I'm glad that someone else besides me understands history enough to realize what's going to happen with WoW.
This is why there isn't *A* WoW-killer. WAR could succeed in every aspect imaginable and all you're going to see is -- I know this is hard for some to believe -- both games existing in harmony.
I agree with you both completely. Frankly I dont understand why some people want to see games fail so bad. Competition is healthy for any market including htis one. Its when one rules over them all that the problems start. WoW may have the most subs but there are other games out there which means competition regardless of how big one is. Look at EQ and AC. Both are still going and they have been around what? almost 10 year if not more?
Mythic have said time and again that they're not trying to beat WOW but live with WOW, you must have heard this at least once, with Paul Barnett going on about how WOW is the Beatles and WAR is Led Zepellin. They won't have the big numbers that WoW has, but that's not what they're aiming for, and it shouldn't be.
They've also said that you can go from levels 1 to 40 without doing any PvP/RvR by doing Public Quests, solo quests and dungeons. They are trying to cater to lots of different people and have said they hope all kinds of players will be able to enjoy the game in their own way. Sure, people will say it's just a WoW clone, but people forget that WoW didn't really bring much new, just took most of what had come before and adapted/polished it to make a great game.
The major diference I feel between the 2 is that fronts will be changing constantly in WAR, unlike WoW which is a very static game. You can raid Orgimmar but does the Horde lose anything if that, even all of their capital city is razed ? Not really since all the other side can do is kill all the guards, players who are flagged for PvP and the leader (ie: Thrall); whilst in WAR, if you eventually manage to kick one realm out of their city, all the ranks that the city has earned are lost and they have to start from scratch again (no more city dungeons, vendors, auction houses, quest givers) so you should feel bitter and vengeful when this does happen and want to take the fight back to them.
This I feel is the crucial difference: fighting with your realm to take over the other realm will change the world itself and open up a myriad of things to do. It's just the tip of the iceberg but is the easiest difference to get across. If you don't defend your capital city, you will not be able to hand in your quest or buy that gear you've been playing for all those days/weeks.
Well, NDA is all about selling the hype and not the game itself. All I can say is that I've got enough information to cancel my pre-order. And it's in deep sorrow I say this, not in anyway because I'm trying to trash the game in purpose. I was really looking forward to it, but as I said in another post... you can't aim lower than a game that already exists, especially not over 3½ years later.
So your saying warhammer has a NDA just so they can trick players into paying for a game just for the hype? I have played even free to play games like 2moons that had a NDA during its beta's and its not even like you had to buy the game.
I am looking for a game that can help me break free of wow... I bought age of conan and really hated the game and i regret not doing the research before hand. Now i fork over another 50 bucks in hope that warhammer will be the game for me. Only time will tell i guess... these flame threads should be removed though because in the end its always some guy ranting that wow is better...
Don't come on these forums saying you have enough information and that you want to cancel your preorder. That in itself is basically just breaking the NDA and trying to get people to steer clear of warhammer.If this isn't the game for you then just leave it be, stop trying to ruin it for the people that actually want to play warhammer.
The problem with these WoW kids(referring to how long one has played MMOs not true age), like the OP, don't understand that before WoW 200,000 subs was considered very strong. When EQ reached 500,000 subs it was a big deal. DAoC probably never reached more than 250,000 subs, but at one time was considered to be a very successful MMO. MMOs don't need millions of subs to strive. Just look at AC. That game has been under 50,000 subs forever. Somehow Turbine has managed to not only create 3 more MMOs(one a complete failure), but to invest in two big time IPs, which probably cost them a lot of cash.
So all hype aside, you're right WAR will probably never surpass WoW. That's not the reason why devs make MMOs, though. They do it to make money, and to do that they don't need 8 million subscribers. Just a couple hundred thousand, which if AoC sold 700,000 in its first month WAR will pass that easily.
People have personal preferences and it obviously is not the OP's cup of tea. However who is he? He is nobody, just another cry baby that says WAR is going to fail. Well, I won't go as far as saying im playing WAR beta becuase that would be a breech of the NDA, but I can say that WAR is going to rock and I also know first hand. Who am I? Im a nobody just like the OP, except one small difference, I have good taste in game selection. WAR is truely great and im not a fanboi, im a gamer. I play all the good games and I must say that WAR is truely epic and brings the much refreshing change that many of us are searching for. We will look no longer, we can finally stop playing WoW becuase a game is finally being released that hold the content that we seek. Character creation/customization alone is the best hands down, PvP is the best hands down, and the graphics are par with WoW if not better. So at the end of the day you have two nobody's telling you the game is great and one telling you the game blows. You can all be the judge come relase day.
Oh and I have 3 copies of CE pre-order, one for me, one for the GF and one to never open and sell later on at an inflated price.
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
At the time UO/EQ/AC launched internet wasn't a commodity, especially lines able to give enjoyable MMO experience. In that perspective the 200k+ subscribers each of them had in their heyday was IMHO surpassing even that 10 million ton behemoth. (and in the same perspective it's good to remember that wow gains at least 3/4th of it's population from localised asian client and subscription deal...)
Whatever happens WAR will be successful enough title to keep it floating. Mythic isn't new to business and after being in Euro DaoC beta back when, I think they have what it takes on making a succesful MMO. Meeting WoW sub tally isn't a goal, but getting a playebase large enough to give continuous funding for game updates is. And of course having enough subs to keep the RvR thing and teaming ingame rolling as well.
I mean "mega" from a marketing perspective... not a "quality" perspective. I respect the dissenting posts, but I'll refresh this thread in about a year when my point will have proven itself. This game will not be bigger than WoW, and it will not be better than UO was at it's height.
- Phos
I dont think any sane person believes that this game will be bigger than WoW. That MMORPG is a freak and I doubt any MMORPG in the next decade will be more popular.
And I also agree that this game seems to cater not to PvP but rather pre-defined faction based PvP (aka RvR) which in my opinion will reduce its scope even more.
But that being said, RvR seems quite popular so there will definetely be quite alot of people playing it.
I just wish they would not limit themselves to having only one type of server but also have FFA PvP servers and let the players themselves decide who to fight against and for what.
Comments
You dont understand what RvR means do you? I could argue with all of your points but there is no point to that. You stay with your WoW. It offers gear grind.....rep grind.....ummmmm gear grind and.......oh yea rep grind. If you feel WAR is not for you, thats cool. No game is for everyone. I think you will find in time though that WAR has alot more to offer than you give it credit for, and you and your friends will be smacking your heads asking why you didnt get it sooner.
Nope its not new. DAOC started it. Calm down guy, sorry I didnt get to reply to you as soon as you would have liked. I dont mind wasting my time on someone who doesnt understand the idea of RvR. However RvR is about the community pulling togeather to achive a goal which is why I highlighted the OP saying WAR didnt offer any community oriented options. Its the exact oposite. Mythic wants the community to grow and help eachother thus....realm vs. realm and not me vs. you.
I can only assume you dont understand any idea beyond "I'm gonna help me and mine get ours". I spose though you would rather call all thoes ex-doac players liars about how much they enjoyed Mythics RvR in that game. So whatever, you can call it a hype tool all you want. I will sit here, understanding what Mythic is trying to accomplish with there RvR system and have a blast in the game.
Good point. I agree. But this is the very quality that boxes WAR into a niche corner that limits the spectrum of customers who might otherwise play it.
- Phos
I'm all about PVE yet I am exremely excited for WAR.
Reasons:
1. Even without playing it the world seems to draw me in. It just seems like a great place to adventure.
2. Even if there is less PVE than PVP it is still NEW pve, aka not WoW or many of the other games I have been playing.
3. I am kind of excited to try a new aspect of gaming. I played WoW for three years and did maybe 3 battlegrounds. Maybe WAR will actually get me into PVP.
4. There are just tons of small things about this game that get me all fidgety. Like your character aging and carrying "trophies".
playing: darkfall
waiting: earthrise
Good point. I agree. But this is the very quality that boxes WAR into a niche corner that limits the spectrum of customers who might otherwise play it.
- Phos
I'm all about PVE yet I am exremely excited for WAR.
Reasons:
1. Even without playing it the world seems to draw me in. It just seems like a great place to adventure.
2. Even if there is less PVE than PVP it is still NEW pve, aka not WoW or many of the other games I have been playing.
3. I am kind of excited to try a new aspect of gaming. I played WoW for three years and did maybe 3 battlegrounds. Maybe WAR will actually get me into PVP.
4. There are just tons of small things about this game that get me all fidgety. Like your character aging and carrying "trophies".
Not to bum you out but the aging thing was removed a few months ago. They said it may make it back in, but its on the backburner for a bit. The trophies are sitll in though.
You will be suprised how balanced the content is throughout the entire game though.
(AND I MEAN SUPRISED)
Good point. I agree. But this is the very quality that boxes WAR into a niche corner that limits the spectrum of customers who might otherwise play it.
- Phos
I'm all about PVE yet I am exremely excited for WAR.
Reasons:
1. Even without playing it the world seems to draw me in. It just seems like a great place to adventure.
2. Even if there is less PVE than PVP it is still NEW pve, aka not WoW or many of the other games I have been playing.
3. I am kind of excited to try a new aspect of gaming. I played WoW for three years and did maybe 3 battlegrounds. Maybe WAR will actually get me into PVP.
4. There are just tons of small things about this game that get me all fidgety. Like your character aging and carrying "trophies".
Not to bum you out but the aging thing was removed a few months ago. They said it may make it back in, but its on the backburner for a bit. The trophies are sitll in though.
Oh darn. Well I didnt really start paying attnetion to the game until about a month ago so Im not surprised I missed that. Still, the game seems to have a fresh take on a lot of things (or amped up versions of things already in many games, which is fine) so I am excited.
playing: darkfall
waiting: earthrise
I kind of agree with the OP about holding off on buying the game. I have a lot of faith in Mythic as a company (less in EA but they seem to be getting a little smarter) but in a way I'm afraid the game will turn out to be a bust. The game seems like it will be something exciting and new. RvR is what WoW should have had for PvP rather than the battlegrounds and their current PvP. It looks like this could turn out to be a very fun game.
The only thing I disagree with the OP on is the community. RvR would only really work if there are people working together. Its one of the major things drawing to me to the game and making me think I may pick it up at launch.
Also, Steelrose, you are now one of my heroes.
Sorry for the slight interruption, this thread can now resume normal operation i hope.
I agree. New MMO titles over TIME will bring down WoW subscribers. However, I would not be surprised that it still has some followers in ten years time. Just look at Ultima Online etc.
Next really big things will no doubt be Bioware's MMO and of course what Blizzard puts out for the genre. I would not be surprised if Blizzard announces a new MMO after Diablo III is out.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
I dont think anyone seriously believe tha WAR is going to beat WoW or anything.. I think the OP have a point that WAR caters to a specific crowd (niche?) while WoW is something for everyone and a large part of why WoW is so sucesfull! But to compete with WoWs numbers you have to be able to beat them in every aspect of the game which is pretty hard if you are not Blizzard...
Look at LotrO... Turbine decided to make a more story driven and PvE oriented game and (IMO) is better than WoW when it comes to thoose things.. The game wasnt designed for the PvP and Raiding crowd so it doesnt beat WoW in thoose aspects and therefor will never be a huge game like WoW but instead will have a focused communtiy that enjoys thoose aspects which it excels in!
And then look at AoC... I think that the main reason why AoC turned out to be such a dissapointment to alot of people is because they marketed is as a game for everyone (18+).. Different crafting and guild citys so the crafters were excited... Lots of raids so the hardcore raiders were excited.. World PvP so the gankers were excited.. Large sieges and "mini-games" so the PvPers were excited... now pretty much everyone except the causals hate the game because it does neither of thoose things very well!
WAR is all about the RvR and will (probably) be the best large scale PvP MMO on the market and nothing else! If thats not what you are looking for then keep playing WoW
(I will play WAR for PvP and LotrO for PvE by the way because I want the best of both worlds
)
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Target specific audience? I thought that too last year, and even last month. I don't pvp, I'm not social so I let this game fly under my radar for a year. I was wrong, 2 weeks ago I was bored and checked in details all the info and even though I'm not the target audience this is the first MMO to be released in the past 5 years that I think will finally get me to play for months.
Lots of instances? Compared to AoC it hardly has any, compared to Wow is has a bit more
Immersive is a subjective term, it depends on your taste. Personally what gets me immersed is purpose and this game has it.
Not community oriented? Man... you are smoking something weird there, this is the most community oriented MMO to be released ever! That's actually the main reason I didn't want to play it
Housing? Well find me a recent game with it
Crafting? Actually better than wow from the video I've seen, but that's not saying much since wow system can hardly be called crafting
Nobody expect any MMO to beat wow in term of sheer number, that's extremely unlikely. But this game does have the most potential of all the mmos to be released since then to be very successful. My guess is that it will start with around 500k sub and after 1-2 years climb to 1 million at it's peak. Of course, it all depends on the launch, until then we're very much in the dark.
A few points I'd like to make guys!
Point A - The Stockmarket!
Unless you're going to be buying shares in Mythic Entertainment, why does everyone seem relate a good game to a successful game. I for one loved Chameleon Twist for my N64 back in the day - most people haven't even heard of it. It was, in my opinion, a good platform game; it wasn't successful. Niche markets do not ruin a game and I highly doubt from the PvE content features ( such as Public Quests and counters outside of quests aiding to future quests ) will go unnoticed.
Point B - The PvP Aspect.
I find it amusing that the PvP aspect seems to make this a 'niche' PvP game. And yet, if you look at the giant ( WoW ) the majority of its top players and its general population reside not on Normal ruleset, but on PvP ruleset? Why? A good question.
Games that bombed, such as Age of Conan - although I'm not convinced it bombed ( but I am convinced I didn't like the focus on a female chest and gore ) - note that the majority of their players are PvPers. Games like Tabula Rasa are striving now to add PvP content. I find it strange that we're sitting here viewing a game that contains, apparantly, heavy loads of both as a negative simply because it does favour one over the other.
Point C - New Kid on the Block? Or Next Big Thing!
This can only be proven on its launch. The new game factor can be both a good thing, yes it may even prove a great thing when competing with older games. But because it hasn't had the years of content added it may also be a poor thing - only a release will answer that question.
Mellybelly's two cents.
WoW will fall (note that it won't fall/ topple and be utterly destroyed never to be played again) once several titles take away from it's player base and hold them successfully. Then the WoW machine will slow down, servers will consolidate and it will reduce itself down to an EQ level (over time). WoW made the industry what it is today (in terms of 'everyone' knowing what online gaming 'is'). It's still big and strong. It will dwindle over time. That's it.
Old systems can't be revamped so much that 10 years from now, WoW will still ride the crest of the wave. If it could and they thought it would, Blizzard wouldn't be working on a new game . Right now the biggest and best factor in terms of gaming is that everything that has come out in the past 2 years has been junk. Many of the F2P games are better than the new P2P ones out. WoW is riding it's own hype because there's nothing else out there.
Will there be other non-WoW games as big as WoW in the future? Almost guaranteed. Will WAR be one maybe/maybe not. We aren't privy to Mythic's 'Game Plan'. When I say Game Plan, I mean the plan for their company. What is a successful launch to them? 1 Million RTM purchases and hold 500K consistently for a year? 2 million sales and hold 300K? Only they know. I think Mythic has played this (figuratively) very carefully in terms of planning and development. They aren't expecting to take even 50% of WoW's market before they call WAR a success.
As long as it's a success to Mythic (and the players who stay with the game) WAR will take a bite out of WoW and go happily along making money for it's parent company for a long time to come.
I'm not sure which post I was responding to here. It's early and I'm still on my first cup of coffee but there you go.
Do you feel like being funny and powerful if you delete 15 posts in a row that did not break any rules. I feel ashamed being from the same country as you are.
Well, NDA is all about selling the hype and not the game itself.
All I can say is that I've got enough information to cancel my pre-order. And it's in deep sorrow I say this, not in anyway because I'm trying to trash the game in purpose. I was really looking forward to it, but as I said in another post... you can't aim lower than a game that already exists, especially not over 3½ years later.
.... you mean wow? Your kidding right? I hate Wow, i didnt even buy it until 2 years after it came out and only because it was $20. I had to force myself to play more than an hour because I hate wasting money for nothing. Warhammer is nothing like wow, do some deep research and you'll see that
I'm glad that someone else besides me understands history enough to realize what's going to happen with WoW.
This is why there isn't *A* WoW-killer. WAR could succeed in every aspect imaginable and all you're going to see is -- I know this is hard for some to believe -- both games existing in harmony.
.... you mean wow? Your kidding right? I hate Wow, i didnt even buy it until 2 years after it came out and only because it was $20. I had to force myself to play more than an hour because I hate wasting money for nothing. Warhammer is nothing like wow, do some deep research and you'll see that
I would agree except either he is in beta and saw enough that he feels its like WoW (though it seems alot dont feel that way that are in beta) or he wasnt really looking forward to the game like he claims. REALLY looking forward to a game and even pre-ordering it would say he did at least some research beyond a beta video here and there. If he "all of a sudden" think its like wow after he was "really looking forward to it" and "cancled his pre-order" (saying he pre-ordered) I find it hard to believe. Like I said, thats assuming he wasnt in beta.
To each there own though. Hell, if WAR turns out to be WoW2 without rep grind, gear grind simply because gear determins how good you are then I will be happy. WoW is all about gear gear gear and nothing else IMO and thats why I hate it. It may be "dumbed down" but I had fun leveling at first. Its when it turned into a HUGE gear grind and gear really REALLY matters that I got turned off.
I'm glad that someone else besides me understands history enough to realize what's going to happen with WoW.
This is why there isn't *A* WoW-killer. WAR could succeed in every aspect imaginable and all you're going to see is -- I know this is hard for some to believe -- both games existing in harmony.
I agree with you both completely. Frankly I dont understand why some people want to see games fail so bad. Competition is healthy for any market including htis one. Its when one rules over them all that the problems start. WoW may have the most subs but there are other games out there which means competition regardless of how big one is. Look at EQ and AC. Both are still going and they have been around what? almost 10 year if not more?
Mythic have said time and again that they're not trying to beat WOW but live with WOW, you must have heard this at least once, with Paul Barnett going on about how WOW is the Beatles and WAR is Led Zepellin. They won't have the big numbers that WoW has, but that's not what they're aiming for, and it shouldn't be.
They've also said that you can go from levels 1 to 40 without doing any PvP/RvR by doing Public Quests, solo quests and dungeons. They are trying to cater to lots of different people and have said they hope all kinds of players will be able to enjoy the game in their own way. Sure, people will say it's just a WoW clone, but people forget that WoW didn't really bring much new, just took most of what had come before and adapted/polished it to make a great game.
The major diference I feel between the 2 is that fronts will be changing constantly in WAR, unlike WoW which is a very static game. You can raid Orgimmar but does the Horde lose anything if that, even all of their capital city is razed ? Not really since all the other side can do is kill all the guards, players who are flagged for PvP and the leader (ie: Thrall); whilst in WAR, if you eventually manage to kick one realm out of their city, all the ranks that the city has earned are lost and they have to start from scratch again (no more city dungeons, vendors, auction houses, quest givers) so you should feel bitter and vengeful when this does happen and want to take the fight back to them.
This I feel is the crucial difference: fighting with your realm to take over the other realm will change the world itself and open up a myriad of things to do. It's just the tip of the iceberg but is the easiest difference to get across. If you don't defend your capital city, you will not be able to hand in your quest or buy that gear you've been playing for all those days/weeks.
So your saying warhammer has a NDA just so they can trick players into paying for a game just for the hype? I have played even free to play games like 2moons that had a NDA during its beta's and its not even like you had to buy the game.
I am looking for a game that can help me break free of wow... I bought age of conan and really hated the game and i regret not doing the research before hand. Now i fork over another 50 bucks in hope that warhammer will be the game for me. Only time will tell i guess... these flame threads should be removed though because in the end its always some guy ranting that wow is better...
Don't come on these forums saying you have enough information and that you want to cancel your preorder. That in itself is basically just breaking the NDA and trying to get people to steer clear of warhammer.If this isn't the game for you then just leave it be, stop trying to ruin it for the people that actually want to play warhammer.
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The problem with these WoW kids(referring to how long one has played MMOs not true age), like the OP, don't understand that before WoW 200,000 subs was considered very strong. When EQ reached 500,000 subs it was a big deal. DAoC probably never reached more than 250,000 subs, but at one time was considered to be a very successful MMO. MMOs don't need millions of subs to strive. Just look at AC. That game has been under 50,000 subs forever. Somehow Turbine has managed to not only create 3 more MMOs(one a complete failure), but to invest in two big time IPs, which probably cost them a lot of cash.
So all hype aside, you're right WAR will probably never surpass WoW. That's not the reason why devs make MMOs, though. They do it to make money, and to do that they don't need 8 million subscribers. Just a couple hundred thousand, which if AoC sold 700,000 in its first month WAR will pass that easily.
People have personal preferences and it obviously is not the OP's cup of tea. However who is he? He is nobody, just another cry baby that says WAR is going to fail. Well, I won't go as far as saying im playing WAR beta becuase that would be a breech of the NDA, but I can say that WAR is going to rock and I also know first hand. Who am I? Im a nobody just like the OP, except one small difference, I have good taste in game selection. WAR is truely great and im not a fanboi, im a gamer. I play all the good games and I must say that WAR is truely epic and brings the much refreshing change that many of us are searching for. We will look no longer, we can finally stop playing WoW becuase a game is finally being released that hold the content that we seek. Character creation/customization alone is the best hands down, PvP is the best hands down, and the graphics are par with WoW if not better. So at the end of the day you have two nobody's telling you the game is great and one telling you the game blows. You can all be the judge come relase day.
Oh and I have 3 copies of CE pre-order, one for me, one for the GF and one to never open and sell later on at an inflated price.
At the time UO/EQ/AC launched internet wasn't a commodity, especially lines able to give enjoyable MMO experience. In that perspective the 200k+ subscribers each of them had in their heyday was IMHO surpassing even that 10 million ton behemoth. (and in the same perspective it's good to remember that wow gains at least 3/4th of it's population from localised asian client and subscription deal...)
Whatever happens WAR will be successful enough title to keep it floating. Mythic isn't new to business and after being in Euro DaoC beta back when, I think they have what it takes on making a succesful MMO. Meeting WoW sub tally isn't a goal, but getting a playebase large enough to give continuous funding for game updates is. And of course having enough subs to keep the RvR thing and teaming ingame rolling as well.
Playing: AC2
Played: UO, DaoC, Horizons, Ryzom, WAR, LotRO, Eve, VG...
I dont think any sane person believes that this game will be bigger than WoW. That MMORPG is a freak and I doubt any MMORPG in the next decade will be more popular.
And I also agree that this game seems to cater not to PvP but rather pre-defined faction based PvP (aka RvR) which in my opinion will reduce its scope even more.
But that being said, RvR seems quite popular so there will definetely be quite alot of people playing it.
I just wish they would not limit themselves to having only one type of server but also have FFA PvP servers and let the players themselves decide who to fight against and for what.
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