i have seen SW play thier class VERY badly, my girlfriends goes around the mountain up the hill near Kaine's alter and just rain down shots, and never makes anyone (or try not to) get close to her unless they are below 25% health where she can kill them off with her sword skills. She always use the 100 feet range they have.
yea, that has a name, is called "ranged farming". is the "right" but boring way to play a rvr game with chockepoints.
SW is a squisy class and have to play that way and i forgot to mention solo kills. SM 2, SW 5
in scenarios it is very hard to get a solo kill.
a squid herder can run and shoot a SW have to stand stil, they do have a mastry path though in which they can shoot shoot shoot and by the time the person gets close and you switch to swords you can finish them off *meaning any class* but to do that you need to start with the 90~100ft range.
to say they are UP i have to sya that is not true, if a squiad herder had the dps power of a SW with his run and shoot trait that would be OP.
If you will play WAR, I advice you to try them. You may like them.
EDIT: remember these are all opinions and most of them (including mine) are based on the first tiers. Each person will have different opinions about different classes. If you check all the threads, you will see people saying that the OP or UP classes are these or that... and each person think some different... just opinions for now.
How can you put a Brightwizard in above average, and a soceress below average? First off, soceresses have MUCH better single target nuking powers (1v1, sorceresses kick BW butt) and secondly, just because they are slightly under played, doesn't mean they are below average!
I am not talking about 1v1 sorceress vs. BW which will happen maybe once in a week.
Ranged caster DPSs shine in big groups. BW has better AoE. They make much more damage compared to Sorceress, and it's what matters in RvR.
Why do you think people do not play Sorceress and tons of people play BW then? Also Sorceress looks much more cooler if you are taking that into account (dark elf chick vs. a clown looking thing).
You're absolutely right. I've been playing a sorceress for most of my time in Beta (almost a year now), and I'm finally shelving it. I was planning to play it on launch, but it's already becoming the whipping boy of WAR. Dev confirmed an incoming nerf (total removal actually) of the 50% crit damage increase tactic. That means that the sorc, which was more or less completely dependent on hoping she'd get some big crits, is now reduced back to doing 500 or 600 damage on a 6K health target in Tier 4.
Lame Lame Lame.
I'll be rolling a Witch Elf on release. Having way more fun actually taking out the enemy healers than sitting there on my sorc tickling a few people and getting annihilated whenever any tank or melee wants to kill me. Oh yeah, and I don't have to nearly kill myself to kill someone else. Yeah, that's a perk too.
You think there's hardly any sorcs now, just wait till next patch when that tactic is gone. It'll be like "Oh look, that guy is playing a sorc, neat!"
The DoK is generally seen as superior at higher tiers of gameplay compared to WP. Plus all the DoK I see usually have damn good survivability. Next the BW bit. They do a ton of damage but they lack survivability if they are by themselves. with so little hp and defenses a BW can potentially get creamed quickly. Also just to let you know, but Sorc is actually superior to BW in terms of DD and AoE at the moment. Plus they have a silence and disarm spell whereas BW only has a silence and no disarm. This doesn't mean BW sucks because they don't, it just means Sorc is better slightly.
I was playing hide and seek with my Sorceress. Because if I don't hide, if I don't use the terrain or something, all the melee and their mother were coming after me, the reason is that I am a free kill when they get close to me. Yes, BW has exactly the same survivability (which sucks for both) but don't tell me the Sorceress AoE is much better than a BW because it's not.
What rank are we talking here because I'm mainly referencing Rank 40 BW and Sorc. Plus the +50 crit damage tactic for Sorc is one huge factor why they do more damage then BW.
Have you even been paying attention to the closed beta boards?
Considering you've played a rank 40, I'm assuming you're also an Elder tester, you should have full access to those boards where a Dev confirmed the 50% crit damage tactic is "going bye bye" next patch.
I seriously do not understand these posts. For anyone that has been in the beta for long period of time there is an understanding that each month has a class flavor. So far Mythic has been very good at balancing and we are now very close to a great set-up of classes with balance between DPS, mitigation and utility.
The four classes I was worried about before we got a class update ('incoming changes next patches up to release') were Magus, Engineer, WE and WH. If they pull off those changes those classes will also be up to par with the rest.
... 1. Ironbreaker: I think it is the best tank in the game. Give them a healer and they just wont die even when 3-4 people are attacking him. It's DPS also shines. I had heard that they have an OP skill called Earthshatter or something which increases their DPS a lot (which would be looked at I guess). Consider heavy balancing on this class imo. 2. Warrior Priest: Much better than it's counter class DoK. Has better survivability and also a great healer for duo-crushing with another tank. 3. Bright Wizard: This class is really nasty if it is behind the lines. Solo? Meh, he can not do much, but put a few BW behind the lines and he will destroy the whole destruction army or will force them to stay back. Much more powerful compared to the Sorceress in Destruction.
I don't play as order, but I do fight them. I have not problem taking on any order tank or warrior priest. I love taking on warrior priest, I see a look of shock in their face as my chosen beats the life out of them.
Now bright wizard I have a problem with. Mostly because destruction doesn't know how to fight them.
Destruction most OP: 1. Shaman: Very good DPS, very good healing, very good debuff/buffs (stealing intelligence, stealing action points), but squishy. They have slightly less healing compared to Zealots, however they have about triple the damage, or maybe more. They have the coolest tools in their arsenal to eliminate opponents (debuffs etc.). Very fun ranged healer/DPS hybrid (if you are on the same side of course). 2. (?) Black Orcs: Very good tanks, good DPS. 3. (?) Chosen: Same with Black Orcs. I guess Chosen is more DPS oriented compared to Black Orcs and has slightly less survivability, but I might be wrong. I have played one upto level 15, most of your team mates will be Chosen if you go Destruction (probably because of the looks+armor).
Shaman are not OP at all. Good healers bad damage. Their damage does not even compare to range DPS classes.
I'll will give you that destruction has good tanks, but order has better healing and range. You nerf descto tanks, we will have nothing.
My main in the betas is a Shaman. Their damage is triple the amount of Zealots. Their healing is slightly below Zealot. If you think a DPS specced Shaman's DPS sucks, then it's because you haven't fought against them yet.
duh shamens from the get go are higher DPS then the Zealots (which take a more traditial rout as healers)
But i agree that the shamens dmg seems to be a lot greater then their arch mage counter part....
Coming from an elder who has tested out pretty much every class at pretty much every level interval. I'll say that Disciple of Khaine is much better than Warrior Priest, they do more damage due to using two weapons and white damage being about 30-40%of overall, and the WP's higher armor does not make up for the difference, they are supposed to be the 'defensive' version but they still get destroyed in the same amount of time =/= not too useful in RvR. Still a strong and fun class nonetheless
Shaman is definitely OP at the moment and is the best healer on either side, the Archmage, their mirror class, doesn't even come close to the strength. GSS needs a nerf, bad.
Marauder is one of the top OP Chaos classes due to its Tentacle grab, which you can use to grab people off keep walls which has no mirror in Order(barring White Lion's Fetch, but slightly different mechanic). Not to mention is extremely sick AoE capabilities(and the sick looking mutated arm).
Squig Herder needs love, too low damage, pets limited utility. Weakest ranged class at the moment.
Chosen is extremely strong in RvR and PvE and close to being overpowered with their Auras and mitigation plus damage capabilities.
Black Orc is extremely fun, they can take a beating and have excellent damage capability. The other tanks should be balanced around this level of power. Need to make the plans better, besides being only a few you'll be using constantly because they are the best skills, should be a choice because they are all strong.
Magus need help, period. Their pets are weak, their spells aren't amazing on their own, but their debuffs are nice, they are very meh without their pets being buffed/changed.
Witch Elf, very well done class, stronger than its mirror the Witch Hunter, they did very well balancing the class, only gripe is some skills are damn near useless and there is no point to them.
Sorc is in the same boat with BW, except slightly better off due to the crit tactic, which might be getting removed so not sure. Still too squishy, not enough damage to make use of it and a funky mechanic
Zealot is the RP mirror, not as strong as RP, but decent, needs a buff as all other healers to be brought in line with Shaman power.
|Choppa| Fun class, extremely overpowered burst damage mechanic.(Oh wait not in, well thats probably the reason it got dropped >.>)
Engineer is pretty weak, but the Grenadier line is very potent with support and teams well with healers and a Bright Wizard, because of the Acid Grenade debuff. The Tinkerer line is the weakest and needs to be adjusted and the Marksmanship is just weaker than i believe it should be, and turrets need some kind of lovin.
Shadow Warrior is a really strong class at the moment, if you spec Skirmish, you get a toughness buff and you can spam a chain-critting aoe arrow(through tactics) and continue to kite. Suffice to say its extremely strong in PvE and does well in PvP. If you spec the Scout line, its more boring yes, but you can do a huge amount of damage, its just a little boring spamming the same 2 skills over and over.
BW is fun, bad for solo, but pretty strong in a group setting, as is Sorc, but most casters are underpowered at this point, i have no doubt it will be balanced soon. Too squishy and lackluster AoE comparatively.
IB's are the ultimate tank, yes, but they are the weakest in the DD department to make up for it, for RvR and all-around utility, SM/Chosen/Black Orc.
SM is strong, but you have to spec the Hoeth line, it has 2 tactic AoEs that deal spirit damage, ignoring armor which go well with the Spirit debuff thats also an AoE. I thoroughly enjoyed this class, just wish the trees were tweaked to be more balanced, stronger tank all around than IB, but weaker than both Chaos tanks.
Witch Hunter is definitely in need of some help, they can pull off some serious damage, but they are so squishy that its likely not to even matter in RvR. Incognito helps but its too weak to justify their lack of survivability or damage. Still one of the coolest looking characters at endgame.
Archmage needs Help, weaker than Shaman, a very meh healer at this point. Ranked below WP and RP for healing utility, has slightly more damage.
Rune Priest, very strong class, lacking in the damage department, but one of the better healers, probably second to shaman, but above Archmage and WP.
White Lion i haven't had too much experience with, but the pet needs to be less forgettable, and less of a penalty when it dies, you really can't kill someone without it.
All in all, the classes are balanced for a game that hasn't released and had years to balance performance due to mass player feedback(*cough*WoW*cough*) But i think its in great shape and even in that other game the classes aren't completely balanced, i think we're headed in a great direction.
P.S. Play Order!
P.S.S No really, please? Going to need a lot of help.
The DoK is generally seen as superior at higher tiers of gameplay compared to WP. Plus all the DoK I see usually have damn good survivability. Next the BW bit. They do a ton of damage but they lack survivability if they are by themselves. with so little hp and defenses a BW can potentially get creamed quickly. Also just to let you know, but Sorc is actually superior to BW in terms of DD and AoE at the moment. Plus they have a silence and disarm spell whereas BW only has a silence and no disarm. This doesn't mean BW sucks because they don't, it just means Sorc is better slightly.
I was playing hide and seek with my Sorceress. Because if I don't hide, if I don't use the terrain or something, all the melee and their mother were coming after me, the reason is that I am a free kill when they get close to me. Yes, BW has exactly the same survivability (which sucks for both) but don't tell me the Sorceress AoE is much better than a BW because it's not.
What rank are we talking here because I'm mainly referencing Rank 40 BW and Sorc. Plus the +50 crit damage tactic for Sorc is one huge factor why they do more damage then BW.
Have you even been paying attention to the closed beta boards?
Considering you've played a rank 40, I'm assuming you're also an Elder tester, you should have full access to those boards where a Dev confirmed the 50% crit damage tactic is "going bye bye" next patch.
I'm referencing what the OP's thoughts on the current class balance, and not referencing what is going to be removed or added.
Can tanks pvp effectively with a shield and 1h or do they have to use a 2h? Black Orc is of interest to me and plan on trying that class first. It drives me crazy in other games that I can't use shields and be worth a darn. Shields should be just as much an offensive weapon as a defensive one.
Are Mythic generaly getting it right when they balance stuff. In the past they have tended to over compensate. I hate it when you end up playing a different class than when you started out.
Comments
thank you for the post.
Purpose in life is not to gain things, but experience. - Rover64dd
yea, that has a name, is called "ranged farming". is the "right" but boring way to play a rvr game with chockepoints.
SW is a squisy class and have to play that way and i forgot to mention solo kills. SM 2, SW 5
in scenarios it is very hard to get a solo kill.
a squid herder can run and shoot a SW have to stand stil, they do have a mastry path though in which they can shoot shoot shoot and by the time the person gets close and you switch to swords you can finish them off *meaning any class* but to do that you need to start with the 90~100ft range.
to say they are UP i have to sya that is not true, if a squiad herder had the dps power of a SW with his run and shoot trait that would be OP.
They don't shower hehe
Imo, they don't stink but I have a cold.
If you will play WAR, I advice you to try them. You may like them.
EDIT: remember these are all opinions and most of them (including mine) are based on the first tiers. Each person will have different opinions about different classes. If you check all the threads, you will see people saying that the OP or UP classes are these or that... and each person think some different... just opinions for now.
I am not talking about 1v1 sorceress vs. BW which will happen maybe once in a week.
Ranged caster DPSs shine in big groups. BW has better AoE. They make much more damage compared to Sorceress, and it's what matters in RvR.
Why do you think people do not play Sorceress and tons of people play BW then? Also Sorceress looks much more cooler if you are taking that into account (dark elf chick vs. a clown looking thing).
You're absolutely right. I've been playing a sorceress for most of my time in Beta (almost a year now), and I'm finally shelving it. I was planning to play it on launch, but it's already becoming the whipping boy of WAR. Dev confirmed an incoming nerf (total removal actually) of the 50% crit damage increase tactic. That means that the sorc, which was more or less completely dependent on hoping she'd get some big crits, is now reduced back to doing 500 or 600 damage on a 6K health target in Tier 4.
Lame Lame Lame.
I'll be rolling a Witch Elf on release. Having way more fun actually taking out the enemy healers than sitting there on my sorc tickling a few people and getting annihilated whenever any tank or melee wants to kill me. Oh yeah, and I don't have to nearly kill myself to kill someone else. Yeah, that's a perk too.
You think there's hardly any sorcs now, just wait till next patch when that tactic is gone. It'll be like "Oh look, that guy is playing a sorc, neat!"
I was playing hide and seek with my Sorceress. Because if I don't hide, if I don't use the terrain or something, all the melee and their mother were coming after me, the reason is that I am a free kill when they get close to me. Yes, BW has exactly the same survivability (which sucks for both) but don't tell me the Sorceress AoE is much better than a BW because it's not.
What rank are we talking here because I'm mainly referencing Rank 40 BW and Sorc. Plus the +50 crit damage tactic for Sorc is one huge factor why they do more damage then BW.
Have you even been paying attention to the closed beta boards?
Considering you've played a rank 40, I'm assuming you're also an Elder tester, you should have full access to those boards where a Dev confirmed the 50% crit damage tactic is "going bye bye" next patch.
I seriously do not understand these posts. For anyone that has been in the beta for long period of time there is an understanding that each month has a class flavor. So far Mythic has been very good at balancing and we are now very close to a great set-up of classes with balance between DPS, mitigation and utility.
The four classes I was worried about before we got a class update ('incoming changes next patches up to release') were Magus, Engineer, WE and WH. If they pull off those changes those classes will also be up to par with the rest.
I don't play as order, but I do fight them. I have not problem taking on any order tank or warrior priest. I love taking on warrior priest, I see a look of shock in their face as my chosen beats the life out of them.
Now bright wizard I have a problem with. Mostly because destruction doesn't know how to fight them.
Shaman are not OP at all. Good healers bad damage. Their damage does not even compare to range DPS classes.
I'll will give you that destruction has good tanks, but order has better healing and range. You nerf descto tanks, we will have nothing.
My main in the betas is a Shaman. Their damage is triple the amount of Zealots. Their healing is slightly below Zealot. If you think a DPS specced Shaman's DPS sucks, then it's because you haven't fought against them yet.
duh shamens from the get go are higher DPS then the Zealots (which take a more traditial rout as healers)
But i agree that the shamens dmg seems to be a lot greater then their arch mage counter part....
Coming from an elder who has tested out pretty much every class at pretty much every level interval. I'll say that Disciple of Khaine is much better than Warrior Priest, they do more damage due to using two weapons and white damage being about 30-40%of overall, and the WP's higher armor does not make up for the difference, they are supposed to be the 'defensive' version but they still get destroyed in the same amount of time =/= not too useful in RvR. Still a strong and fun class nonetheless
Shaman is definitely OP at the moment and is the best healer on either side, the Archmage, their mirror class, doesn't even come close to the strength. GSS needs a nerf, bad.
Marauder is one of the top OP Chaos classes due to its Tentacle grab, which you can use to grab people off keep walls which has no mirror in Order(barring White Lion's Fetch, but slightly different mechanic). Not to mention is extremely sick AoE capabilities(and the sick looking mutated arm).
Squig Herder needs love, too low damage, pets limited utility. Weakest ranged class at the moment.
Chosen is extremely strong in RvR and PvE and close to being overpowered with their Auras and mitigation plus damage capabilities.
Black Orc is extremely fun, they can take a beating and have excellent damage capability. The other tanks should be balanced around this level of power. Need to make the plans better, besides being only a few you'll be using constantly because they are the best skills, should be a choice because they are all strong.
Magus need help, period. Their pets are weak, their spells aren't amazing on their own, but their debuffs are nice, they are very meh without their pets being buffed/changed.
Witch Elf, very well done class, stronger than its mirror the Witch Hunter, they did very well balancing the class, only gripe is some skills are damn near useless and there is no point to them.
Sorc is in the same boat with BW, except slightly better off due to the crit tactic, which might be getting removed so not sure. Still too squishy, not enough damage to make use of it and a funky mechanic
Zealot is the RP mirror, not as strong as RP, but decent, needs a buff as all other healers to be brought in line with Shaman power.
|Choppa| Fun class, extremely overpowered burst damage mechanic.(Oh wait not in, well thats probably the reason it got dropped >.>
)
Engineer is pretty weak, but the Grenadier line is very potent with support and teams well with healers and a Bright Wizard, because of the Acid Grenade debuff. The Tinkerer line is the weakest and needs to be adjusted and the Marksmanship is just weaker than i believe it should be, and turrets need some kind of lovin.
Shadow Warrior is a really strong class at the moment, if you spec Skirmish, you get a toughness buff and you can spam a chain-critting aoe arrow(through tactics) and continue to kite. Suffice to say its extremely strong in PvE and does well in PvP. If you spec the Scout line, its more boring yes, but you can do a huge amount of damage, its just a little boring spamming the same 2 skills over and over.
BW is fun, bad for solo, but pretty strong in a group setting, as is Sorc, but most casters are underpowered at this point, i have no doubt it will be balanced soon. Too squishy and lackluster AoE comparatively.
IB's are the ultimate tank, yes, but they are the weakest in the DD department to make up for it, for RvR and all-around utility, SM/Chosen/Black Orc.
SM is strong, but you have to spec the Hoeth line, it has 2 tactic AoEs that deal spirit damage, ignoring armor which go well with the Spirit debuff thats also an AoE. I thoroughly enjoyed this class, just wish the trees were tweaked to be more balanced, stronger tank all around than IB, but weaker than both Chaos tanks.
Witch Hunter is definitely in need of some help, they can pull off some serious damage, but they are so squishy that its likely not to even matter in RvR. Incognito helps but its too weak to justify their lack of survivability or damage. Still one of the coolest looking characters at endgame.
Archmage needs Help, weaker than Shaman, a very meh healer at this point. Ranked below WP and RP for healing utility, has slightly more damage.
Rune Priest, very strong class, lacking in the damage department, but one of the better healers, probably second to shaman, but above Archmage and WP.
White Lion i haven't had too much experience with, but the pet needs to be less forgettable, and less of a penalty when it dies, you really can't kill someone without it.
All in all, the classes are balanced for a game that hasn't released and had years to balance performance due to mass player feedback(*cough*WoW*cough*) But i think its in great shape and even in that other game the classes aren't completely balanced, i think we're headed in a great direction.
P.S. Play Order!
P.S.S No really, please? Going to need a lot of help.
I was playing hide and seek with my Sorceress. Because if I don't hide, if I don't use the terrain or something, all the melee and their mother were coming after me, the reason is that I am a free kill when they get close to me. Yes, BW has exactly the same survivability (which sucks for both) but don't tell me the Sorceress AoE is much better than a BW because it's not.
What rank are we talking here because I'm mainly referencing Rank 40 BW and Sorc. Plus the +50 crit damage tactic for Sorc is one huge factor why they do more damage then BW.
Have you even been paying attention to the closed beta boards?
Considering you've played a rank 40, I'm assuming you're also an Elder tester, you should have full access to those boards where a Dev confirmed the 50% crit damage tactic is "going bye bye" next patch.
I'm referencing what the OP's thoughts on the current class balance, and not referencing what is going to be removed or added.
Can tanks pvp effectively with a shield and 1h or do they have to use a 2h? Black Orc is of interest to me and plan on trying that class first. It drives me crazy in other games that I can't use shields and be worth a darn. Shields should be just as much an offensive weapon as a defensive one.
You can PvP just fine with 1h and Sheild, more survivability but less damage. Depends on your mastery.
Bump because this is the only discussion going on like this right now, and it shouldn't be on page 10.
BW is OP, end of story......those things hurt.
Eagerly waiting for Warhammer Online.
Hates SOE, and Blizzard
Finally over the fact Blackguards were removed from WAR
Thanks Seaka interesting post.
Are Mythic generaly getting it right when they balance stuff. In the past they have tended to over compensate. I hate it when you end up playing a different class than when you started out.