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How long until a good MMORPG comes out?
IamMike
Member Posts: 8
Before you jump in and start yelling at me because of the title of this form take a minute to consider the following. PVP in most MMO's today is unrewarding and frankly pretty boring after a couple of years, months, weeks, or days depending on your attention span and how long you can put up with being unrewarded. I make the contention that in the current environment that you could switch from playing an mmo to an fps and get the same reward.
To give you a little bit of my history... I played Ultima Online(UO) about a million years ago. To be more specific I played in '98 and '99 on a few servers (Pacific, Abyss, and Siege Perilous). For those of you who played UO, I had many characters as well ranging from a 7x-GM perma red to a pack mule miner/smith. I played non-stop PVP for hours and hours, and for those of you who didn't play UO, I made tons of in-game cash. UO, when I played, allowed you to loot bodies of anyone weather you killed them or not, you could steal from other players backpacks, you could loot houses, you could have a guild war in town, and you could do those dungeon crawls and do all that PVM (PVE) stuff.
Now games don't allow for you to make your own decisions about how you are going to play. They have put on the little kid gloves and now there isn't a game that I have found that would be fun for me. EA has ruined ultima and no one seems to have put out a game. I challenge you to name a game that allows true Free For All Player vs Player (FFAPVP) with loot. I can go play Call of Duty 4 for an hour if I want to just kill other players. I can play Civ 4 for 8 hours if I want to build something better than someone else. I can't find an MMO that is good.
CHALLENGE:
LIST ONE GAME THAT HAS:
Loot dead players (take the all stuff they are carring on their person)
A housing system ( a place to put your stuff and to show off)
FFAPVP (Can I fight all over the world, or just some stupid battle ground)
More than 4 people playing at a time (I would like it to be a game that other people are playing, or there is really no point.)
Comments
Here's an idea:
Go play a MMORPG from 10 years ago... most of them are still online.
or EVE... that's like 5 years ago...
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
Playing a game from 10 years ago sounds great, but it isn't realistic. The games have changed over time and they don't do the things that I am asking for. EVE looks good, but it isn't what I am looking for...
Follow the challenge.
I don't want to repeat myself, but the game you are seeking might be Darkfall. There are a lot of people talking about how this game is vaporware... but if we are lucky this game will see the daylight and everyone of us looking for a more challenging game will dance in the streets. The only thing that scares me is the so called FFAPVP... I'm all for it "in theory" but in practice I hope the consequences of being a coward ganker are harsh or else this could ruin the game.
I have stopped waiting for the old style great MMO. There is WAR now, it's not an MMORPG like we were used to, it's a MMO game, not as much a world, seems to be DaOC + WOW + TF2 combined with intelligence. Lots of grouping with public quests and RvR, and I love grouping as much as I hate questing alone. Seems it will be fun, for what the people is saying now that the NDA is lifted, so I'm going to play that.
September 23rd, 2008.
OP, I accept your challenge. The game you're looking for is Mortal Online. The CEO of StarVault, the company developing it, is the hugest fan of UO and wants to make a game in the same spirit with today's technology.
And damn, I'm waiting for some new info on it from GC 08...
You go back and them old games just don't play well anymore because they're sooo dated and clumsy. However you want the challenge and mechanics of the old mmorpgs but done with a modern engine and polished up with nice interfaces.
I just want SWG pre cu back tbh.
EVE
Asherons Call - Darktide server
Shadowbane
Lineage 2 (looting limited to random item drop, housing limited to guild halls and castles that can be sieged and taken away)
Planetside (minus the housing)
WWIIO - no housing
Coming soon
WAR
Earthrise
Maybe some others
Do I get a prize now?
Ultima Online Siege Perilous shard.
Gives you all you asked for.
That's what i was going to say, you mind reader you...
-------------------------
"Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"
Member Since March 2004
EVE
Asherons Call - Darktide server
Shadowbane
Lineage 2 (looting limited to random item drop, housing limited to guild halls and castles that can be sieged and taken away)
Planetside (minus the housing)
WWIIO - no housing
Coming soon
WAR
Earthrise
Maybe some others
Do I get a prize now?
the lack of fallen earth on that list makes me sad
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
In UO you could escape a red guy chasing you, most of the time, if you kept your eyes open. In Everquest clones you can never escape, so therefore PvP is hated.
EVE
Asherons Call - Darktide server
Shadowbane
Lineage 2 (looting limited to random item drop, housing limited to guild halls and castles that can be sieged and taken away)
Planetside (minus the housing)
WWIIO - no housing
Coming soon
WAR
Earthrise
Maybe some others
Do I get a prize now?
the lack of fallen earth on that list makes me sad
Yup and i am damn glad it isnt gona be FFA PVP. Earthrise is it tho.
EVE (requires you to geek it out in a guild if you want to own any structures and make your mark on the world, real time skill training means you will never catch up to those who are subscribed longer then you.)
Asherons Call - Darktide server Never played it.
Shadowbane (Grind to max level, then geek it out in a guild if you want to make your mark on the world and PVP, see: Eve Online)
Lineage 2 (looting limited to random item drop, housing limited to guild halls and castles that can be sieged and taken away) (Never played it, but I bet there are a select few areas you can put "castles or guild halls" on.)
Planetside (minus the housing) At least you feel like you own a base when it's on your side, and you don't have to geek it out in a guild to do it either.
WWIIO - no housing My favorite game.
Coming soon (uh huh)
WAR
Earthrise
Maybe some others
Do I get a prize now?
That's what i was going to say, you mind reader you...
I have standards man. Hey I played UO for a month or two back in the 20th century but damnit I just spent over $100 on a video card, and damnit I have standards. I draw a line somewhere, and usually it is at 2 seconds per frame, 2D graphics, and servers that aren't run by "the company".
starquest online has every thing you asked for it doesnt have the graphics of most of the MMO's today but a dead player or NPC can be stripped down to their underwear and there are no "safe zones" except for earth where combat is disabled but as soon as you hop in a ship you can shot anything thats there except the planets and stars you can engage any ship station or person on any ship station or system we have houses that are player owned but people tedd to show off all their stuff on their ships
Hmm.... I wonder how long until Star Trek Online comes out... *hint hint*
An entirely subjective list of what makes a good MMO.
I for one would not appreciate 6 months of full-time grinding being looted from me because I went AFK for 10 seconds.
There's far more people in favour of "safe" PvP than world-PvP. Server distribution shows this.
How long is unknown, but I can give you the tilte of it, KOTOR 3.
UO is terrible...the graphics are so bad it isnt even funny........In your poll the only 2 MMos that were really around 10 years ago was UO and EQ1......There were a couple others but they were very minor (and no Im not counting games like Diablo 2 as a MMO).........While you may have loved the freedon that UO offered I hated the game......I was a big fan of the Ultima series but thought UO was flat out awful.......It had some interesting ideas but the combat was so horrible that it just wasnt enjoyable.......Id take just about any MMO today over UO.....EQ1 was a great game but had too many expansions and too many of its players left for EQ2/WoW........
Your biggest problem is that your looking for PVP in a mmorpg game.PVP is NOTHING about fairness ,but more so about ganking or guarantee kills by out leveling your opponent.A game would break all molds and have to be a FPS game within a MMORPG game to have any credibility.It wouldn't be a mmorpg anymore but instead would be a sort of multigame.Perhaps that is the next term for gaming genres.
You keep mentioning MMORPG but at the same time all you seem worried about is FFAPVP and looting pvp,then what?sell pvp loot?wear pvp loot?then if it's you who gets killed and lose everything,what will you do?walk around looking for PVP with no gear? lol.PVP belongs in first person shooters.I realize there is a lot of players who can't cut it in FPS games,but trying to gank easier opponents in a MMO is not the way to feed your ego or build up your skills.Skills in PVP are such things as map movement/map knowledge/weapon choices/unpredictability/reading your opponents pros and cons ect ect.IN MMO's a mage is a mage there is nothing to predict there,a tank is a tank once again nothing there,you pretty much know exactly what the other guy brings ,so there is no skills there.Maps in MMO's are NEVER made to enhance player skills.Weapons in MMO's are all about stats and damage ,they have nothing to do with making choices.
As long as you keep looking for PVP qualities in a MMORPG game you will never be satisfied.Join unrealtournament/quake/half life/COD games like that enhance player skills.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
WWIIONLINE and PLANETSIDE is the only fair MMOPVP, however there is an alternative nobody has tried yet.
Alternative: MMORTS. Real Time Strategy. Take Medieval Total War for example, each unit has a captain and 40-150 units. You can play the captain, and your NPC's will be the equivalent to leveling, except better. Would you rather show of a castle and an army, or do emotes /flex in front of total strangers to show off your 1337 loot?
Say for example in a MMORTS you run into another player that has twice the power of you (equivalent twice the level in an Everquest clone). You have 50 guys in your army, your enemy has 100. You most likely will not win the battle, but you can damage the resources of your enemy. There would be no ganking, because there would be immediate retribution in all PVP battles.
Wizardry -
I realize that you have some pretty strong view points, but I am going to have to say that you are very very wrong about what I want and from what I can gather from this one post you have made is that you have no idea what MMO-PVP should be.
I would like to point out that while I built maxed out straight pvp characters for the sole purpose of killing every player that came my way. At the same time I ran characters that were in the mid 90s in tatics and swords or fencing with about a 70-80 in magery and 60-80 in healing/anatomy and would take down characters that had much better stats/skills. How is that possible you may ask with you current view of MMORPG combat. The answer is I was a better player. I understood the weapons in the game, the armour, and the accessories (such as bandages and potions).
To get the to the point I belive that in a good MMO that PVP is balanced and can be regulated. If you look at Diablo 2 (which isn't an MMO) the pvp in that game was all about who shoots first. Character's hit points are not in line with monster hit points nor are they in line with the amount of damage that a character can dish out. It typically ends in one or two shots unless the character is specifically geared toward pvp. This is not the type of game that I am talking about nor is it the type of game play that a MMO should have for PVP combat. I can tell you dozens stories of my combat experiences in UO if you need them to understand what I am talking about.
Currently I play and have played games such as COD4, Halo 2/3, Bioshock, Mass Effect, Viva pinata, GTA, you know just the normal Xbox 360 stuff. I don't play MMOs anymore because I can't find anything that will fill the void of what UO used to be. I remember times where I could start off with my rogue with nothing on other than a death robe at the begining of the day and by the time I was done playing I would have amassed a large collection of various loot. Other dyas I could finish out with nothing, who knew when I started. I would be able to have brilliant quests just doing all sorts of stuff, but when you play a grandmaster theif the world is your oyster (actually I think I was at 99.6 in stealing, but I had 100 stealth...)
I would be able to play a game like World of Warcraft for about two weeks or whatever time it took me to become comfortable with the system. After that I would most likely be bored with the game. I think that PVP without loot is very much like kissing your hot sister. Sure she is hot, but she's your sister man. What I mean to say is that it is a vapid existance in which you gain no reward that is tangeble nor can you gain true fullfillment.
To quote Andrew Ryan,"Is a man not entitled to the sweat from his brow?"
Honestly folks to every past and present MMO-PVP'er who is reading this one big question..
Do you feel rewarded by PVP in an MMO if you don't get any loot?
Think about the question and I will phrase it differently.
If your avatar fights another living person's avatar for 1 - 5 mintues should you get better loot than from a monster?
You can answer it either way that it is phrased, but just think about your answer carefully and answer honestly, maybe even include your experiences with PVP in MMOs.
Boundless Planet
Beyond protocol
SAGA
Ballerium
Dreamlords
Mankind
Shattered Galaxy
Time of Defiance
Project Visitor
Just to name a few. Plenty of people have tried them. Now you can too
Wurm Online is exactly what yu are looking for.
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In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten