Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
What classes are overpowered in your opinion?
Jefferson81
Member Posts: 730
I'm looking forward to this game but this I would like to know so please tell me what you know.
And also, any classes that are underpowered?
Comments
none really, well there is unbalance but it is not like one class can down right kill almost every other class.
it is more like when you are fighting one class and you know you should have the advantage because of the archtypess but you dont, so it is harder for you to win.
Or another way i can describe the overpower in WAR, is that some classes vs another class in which the archtype of that class you should have the advantage you dont have.
so the answer to your question is that some classes are overpowered but none are underpowered.
(yea i know its a weird answer)
Hmm, ok.
Which classes have you played and what do you think of them?
Black Orcs and Ironbreakers are pretty tough. I wouldnt consider them OP, just extremely annoying in RvR
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
The rock, paper, scissor system?
I don't understand the reply, but I am hoping that in WAR, it will be less about having an overpowered class, and more about team play and group makeup/balance of classes that determine success.
After almost 7 years of the ups and down in Daoc, it's my opinion that Mythic knows pvp in mmorpgs better than anyone else out there. I think many people will be suprised how good pvp (or rvr if you will) will be in Warhammer after a few months.
The rock, paper, scissor system seems to be the best way to describe it. almost like tanks hurt melee, melee hurts healers, ranged hurts tanks..thats the best way to think of it in terms of advantange..and yes team play if a large role in your success.
I doubt it's going to be rock paper scissors like in WoW arena games at the higher ratings. WoW is a good game for new players to the genre, or people who don't want to think for themselves. I mean it's so brain dead easy with enemy casting bars, labeling the class of ever enemy, inspecting all gear, talents, and more... people just copy everyone else who has success and that fuels the fire for Rock Paper Scissors.
I know WAR will not have a lot of that, just like in Daoc, which was pretty raw, but highly advanced at the same time. The better players won group fights because of great teamplay, not smashing overpowered abilities as fast as possible. There are exceptions however in the days of group purge, bunker of faith, and ae stun ae mezing before they added real immunity timers, unlike WoW which has a terrible immunity system.
The rock, paper, scissor system?
it is more like a 6 way rock paper scissor system, like chosen right now no class seems to have an advantage on them even though some type of long range class should, dont make them invincable just make annoying since you just have to use the beat down method on them, if it was a black orc, i will say on vent hey bright wizard and shadow warrior kill this stink breath for me.
a bright wizard by himself is not overpowered but you have 3 or more of those dudes and they burn the place down, which is not the case for any other long range casters, does it mean they are the ultimate offence/defence? nope means everyone have to focus on killing them, instead of using the right startagy and using the advantages you are suppose to have.
another way i can explain it.
the archetypes are rock paper scissors which is like worth 60%, but then the classes another round of rock paper scissors which is worth 40%.
lets say swordmaster archtype1: rock arch2: scissors
DoKaine arch1: scissors arch2: paper
as you can see the swordmaster should win
but lets say it was the sword master vs a squid herder arch1: paper arch2: paper
the squig herder should win.
these are just rough ways i can explain it, it is not a clear cut yes that will win or that will lose, they are diffrent masteries, tactics, and specs which all go into this.
I hope it's much more complex than that. I want to see advanced group fighting tactics at the high levels with a few healers and dps on each side.
theres a lot of tactics. more so in PvP then most games Ive played. You'll have tanks hold the line and ranged dps falling behind them. (that is, once they learn not to run away from mobs like they do in WoW). Once you get in you'll see the dynamics
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
oh it is.....it is, the higher you get the more complex it is, even if you have the advantage on one class because of the way you are speced and he/she is speced it is diffrent, you have to recronize how the are playing what are the using what specs to do what.
simple example, front door of a keep, flooded with tanks and some melle dps with some physicall dps, but then you see 1 or 2 magic dps, you ahve to think is this guy using short range AoE to cover his tanks or is he speced for DoT and is going to DoT your tank classes and have his physical range dps take them or out, should you tell your white lion friend kill him who is speced for his war lion to do damage or your witch hunter friend.
honestly especially with the CE testers they do not have all this much skill yet but the guild testers are starting to get there.
it sounds complicated but playing scenarios is a very good teacher, first you start off with PUGs then you start evoling and you keep learning.
That's what I expected and now that NDA droped I got my suspicion right, fortunately!
I mean each of the 20 careers has 3 paths to choose from (20 x 3 ways to play the game sort of...), then there's also the moral build ups, masteries, etc...
So yeah I would say it sounds pretty complex.
Edit: Btw, this reminds me of the table top in some ways (and I dare to say even the pen & paper RPG) with its morale, coolness, and leadership all those took part of the game as well and could be the diference between loosing or winning. I would say that there's probably no better company than Mythic to represent the flavor of battle that Games Workshop brought up on their TT.
Cheers!
...isnt that their job?
good to hear no one is dominating at this early stage.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
The main problem i found in RvR is it was like 20 chosen + 5 zealots and they were like unstoppable
once they took the oil down on the keeep, we were pretty much dead >.<
the problem that i think will occur in the real game, is that not enough people will be attracted to the order tanks.
I've been Chaos all the way since I started playing tabletop (hell! I even did write a campain for chaos characters pen&paper RPG with the lore book Realms of Chaos ages ago...) but I wouldn't mind to play an underdog race/career...
I've seen a lot of posts concerning this, and it seems it's the main concern for future gamers, the imbalance/balance and who's the underdog, zerging and sometimes even pug, etc...
Let us see when it goes lives I'll say.
Cheers!
You will notice that at different tiers there seem to be certain OP classes and that changes through the tiers.
T1 you will see Marauders and Chosen dominating the field. Bright wizards will get the highest dps in list but this is due to their aoe output mainly.
T2 The classes balance out really nicely and the Mar and Chosen dont dominate. Melee classes on order side like the White Lion start to get better ratings. (engineers, Witch hunters and White lions). Magus at this tier comes underpowered as does squid herder.
T3 Marauders and chosen dominate, proving very hard to get down and easily cutting through a lot of other classes bar the Ironbreaker. I have seen (non shield using) Sword masters last a matter of seconds in comparison to the black orc and chosen but the BO has abilty to self heal as most Desto have. Top of the dps chart are Bright wizards but again this is due to the aoe or the Dots out put. Sometimes the Brights totally own the field if backed but a good healer.
T4 Suddenly you become aware of two deadly and some would say, OP classes. The Witch Elf and the Magus. The Witch Elf will break stealth and cut through BW, healers and most (half melee half range) classes like the engineer shadow warrior and white lion. The only time WE can be stopped is with a few outnumbering. I have been in a combat with my BW and two witch hunters an 2 of us died before the witch elf did. Magus a vortex ability that pulls all into a small area and then thats basically a wipe once that happens. You will see BW at top of ratings as normal but this is not really a good reflection of how good they are they just good AoErs but the field is dominiated.
In conclusion its basically the range is dominated by Order but melee and close quarter is dominated by desto. We dont have a real comparison to either the witch elf or the marauder and if you get chosen and black orcs as well its pretty much a game over.
Vala2008, I found it very interesting to cut it down to tiers. I makes more sense.
Now what I'd love to see is what are the underpowered classes... per tier
bright wizards in T3 are unstopable, no way one of them should be able to cut down my chosen in 3 hits.
If you want to play the overpowered class, the Bright Wizard is the way to go.
Order seems to be a little short of tanks and healers though, as once people see the BW in action, many roll one for themselves.
As a bright Wizard you will get;
Highest DPS in game
A Debuff for your own damage type, wiping out all but the highest resists
A healing debuff, making healing on your target next to useless
Mainly instant attacks on the DoT line, meaning you can stay mobile and out of trouble.
So, if you want to destroy everything, roll a BW, if you want to be a welcome addition for the longer term, then a tank or healer is always of use.
Bright Wizard. By Far the most overpowered class. Overall though Bright Wizards are the absolute most overpowered class in the game. They need to rework how their dots work and prevent so many dots stacking on a character. How is it possible to have so many DoTs that all stack on a character.
Ironbreaker. Overpowered in Tier 3.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
What people aren't telling you is BW also are the weakest or one of the weakest classes in the game.
Who will 100% die to any class that can reach them.
Also Order has way to many of them. EVERYONE wants to be the hero on order, EVERYONE wants to see the 983651056178306571362478561378 DPS at the end of a scenario.
I personally dispise BW's and refuse to heal them on my RP. I hate them for their inability to play, their attitudes (I am the pwnzor dps HEAL ME!!! uhhhhh no....) and overall just being a BW.
I was hoping it was just some fad and would pass and we would begin to get more healers and tanks in order.... but alas we will not, everyone want to be the DPS omg bbq ftw pwnzor BW.
What is going to be funny though is when mythic hits them with a big nerf stick, and half of order's player base is sitting around with level 40 useless BW's and have to reroll to be able to stand up to destruction.
But that time is rapidly approaching.
Until then I will just refuse to heal any of them till they get pissed off at dieing 100 times a scenario and reroll.
I have also ordered my entire guild NOT to heal BW in scenarios or RvR. Let them die. We only have 200 of them on a battlefield. Noone misses the ones that fall trust me.
Yep, bw is quite annoying and got some silly dps. They wear armor made of paper though and got the physique of an elderly, sick man. Also their magic is quite self-destructive. Haven't got the number on how many time my bright wizard died cause of combustion when I let it rest on 100 for too long cause a)I forgot about it or b)I want the supercrits. BW is a good example on the paper cannon mage. Their magic is even dangerous to themselfes. Oh, and dotting everything is the 'omg I pwn' kiddies way out, that get a big epeen each time they see themselfes top the dps chart. A bw only dotting in pvp is beyond useless. Atleast that's my experience with them. Havent tried my bw in t4 yet.
---
Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
The OP classes are on destruction side: the disciple of khaine, a healer wearing plate and doing fury dps , and the witch elf, who can rape an IB in a matter of seconds.
As for the mirrors unbalance, i'd say the magus is more powerful than the engineer, and more annoying in offense.
Black orcs being better than IB or BW being better than sorceress don't bother me as it all balances out in the end.
My addiction History:
>> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
>> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
>> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
I don;t consider any classes overpowered. But SW/SH need help and some classes match up poorly namely White lion is much worse than Maruader and Wtich Elf is a bit better than Witch Hunter and Black Orc is better than Swordmaster
I don't buy into the BW being over powered thing nor do I think Sorcs are as disadvantaged either, ranged disarm is really nasty against their main counter. A tank can do almost nothing disarmed.
I don't really think any class is OP, but I think Destruction is somewhat more powerful in total than Order. Its hard to say for the IB versus Chosen part though, since they are not mirrors and offer fairly different advantages. But there are like 3 or 4 important classes that Destruction has a fairly obvious advantage with.
Not that this is anything new most Closed Beta testers knew this before release.
All in all though its nothing terrible.