I know what it means but I want to know how people are using it in this context.
I don't get comments like how can 3 ever beat a zerg? I just don't get why people are asking about this.
You know what? While 3 can't beat a zerg (mass number of uncoordinated players roaming in a pack), in the original days of DAOC a well coordinated team of two or three eight man groups could easily destroy a 50 person zerg through the use of the vicious crowd control spells the game had.
Heck, you could find yourself stunned, rooted etc for the entire fight (literally minutes) and the attacking group would pick everyone off one by one.
Mythic decided that mechanic wasn't much fun for the losers, so from what I understand they took most of it out.
If so, this should actually make the zergs more powerful as compared to the coordinated groups, but still, as mentioned, use of voice chat and good healing to dps mix should still win the day if the numbers aren't too one sided.
I suspect 20 vs 100 is a losing proposition (as it should be). Half the challenge of open world PVP is in avoiding the zerg and killing targets of opportunity, while not dying yourself.
People seem to forget these days, PVP combat doesn't always have to be fair.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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With a small nucleus team though, greater numbers can be beaten or at least denied the objective as the Beta was recent (and I doubt this will change). Of course folks have to work together and occasionally you are still going to die but thats 'taking one for the team', if you win in the end.
Yes it will definitely be a zerg tactic oriented game because there is no significant death penalty so there is no fear of dying and failing in combat.
Zerging, is the act of repeatedly attacking, dying, respawning, and reattacking in quick succession, especially with larger groups wether in PVE or PVP, in order to win in battle by overwhelming numbers. It's considered a sissy way to accomplish the goal because it involves no talent or skill or planning and only is possible because developers have designed a sissy game which doesn't hold players accountable for losing in battle.
Originally posted by memoir For those living out in a cage these last 2 years, PvP is now all about crowd control
pvp in WoW may be, pvp in eve is about fleet tactics and positioning (or nanos), pvp in planetside was all about heavy armour, pvp in AO was all about alphastrike, pvp in SWG was all about eyeshot.
listing a bunch of WoW CC stuff does not make you an authority on what makes good pvp. if you like the pvp in WoW so much (as you seem to) then go play that, it sounds perfect from what you describe.
Sure, some things like splitting groups and going for different objectives or trying to form an ambush or flanking are pointing a little into the direction of tactics.
But true tactical decisions, where things like weather conditions, vegetation, elevation, supply, speed, mobility come into play just don't apply to a game like WAR. And you know what? - It's SO good it is this way, because the game would not be half the fun if you have to apply real war tactical decisions...
In Germany we have this strange thing called military duty, were every young adult has to serve some months in the army. You get to know the basics of tactical infantry warfare and I tell you, it's NOT fun, it's basically what you would call - in any game - basecamping, camping, sniping and exploiting. So good thing its NOT even remotely there in WAR.
Only one of the three RVR areas in each tier has Zerg battles going on, but the rest are usually small scale skirmishes. Small guilds or organized players can dominate here, and I have never had more fun in a GAME, not just MMO, than when I organized a small party and even though Order was outnumbered 2:1 we took the entire Zone, snuck around and took objectives, avoided the zerg blob, and dominated everyone we saw even if there were many more players than us.
Zerg again only happens in one RVR area in each tier out of 3. So actually at any time you are playing there will only be one or maybe two Zerg battles you can join, and they are still fun. Stop trolling.
As I see a zerg is bassicly a rush of a large un-organized group, those will always fail against an organized group unless they are outnumbered by A LOT. Stupid example but sorry wow just springs out, a well organized team of 5 to 10 people can hold of a bunch of 40 in a battleground. Maybe because there are more idiots playing that game dunno, but hey war will have a larger player base then the average MMO so expect lot's of idiots there aswell.
In the end it all boils down to: are you having fun. Even in loosing a battlefield you can have loads of fun battles. How the tactics or fights will be: guess we'll see on release. Even after release things can change, for the worse or better...
I am not in beta, but from what I read and see in videos, the impression that the WAR PVP is mostly a Zerg results from the shortage of crowd control. Correct me if I am wrong, but I saw most non-melee apparently didnt have any useful stuns, roots or other attacks a.k.a. crowd control. Added the fact there is practically no stealth - another crowd control possibility - the logical result IS Zerg. Sure, good healers can compensate a bit, when when you dont have to fear to be backstabbed by invisible chars nor fear to be rooted or stunned any serious amound PLUS no death penality you make Zerg the only logical way people will fight. Its working as intended.
To make a tactical PVP, you would have to implement everything Mythic said right away they didnt want, like sneak classes, slow combat asf. I can imagine it is fun for 3-4 months and then people leave because its always the same. I dont expect WAR to be a bad game at all, but everything I hear and read sounds like a fast food game to me.
So when armies went to war back in the olden days, you would laugh at the side with the most knights cause they were "zerging"?
Zerg is not terminology from WOW, it is an MMORPG term in general, it started way before WoW even saw the light of day.
thats not how the world works mate, if it was in WoW, then blizzard invented it and every game from now until the heat death of the universe HAS to have it in or its a missing feature. However if it is included, then said game is simply a WoW clone.
WoW had zerging, therefore WoW invented zerging, as there is zerging in WAR, it is just a wowclone but wow pvp was better because there was less zerging.
Originally posted by Xennith Originally posted by TdogSkal Originally posted by Raserei Zerg.... funniest terminology from WOW...
So when armies went to war back in the olden days, you would laugh at the side with the most knights cause they were "zerging"?
Zerg is not terminology from WOW, it is an MMORPG term in general, it started way before WoW even saw the light of day.
thats not how the world works mate, if it was in WoW, then blizzard invented it and every game from now until the heat death of the universe HAS to have it in or its a missing feature. However if it is included, then said game is simply a WoW clone. WoW had zerging, therefore WoW invented zerging, as there is zerging in WAR, it is just a wowclone but wow pvp was better because there was less zerging.
any questions?
Sorry i just have to point out the one flaw in your post...all gamers know that the term "Zerging" was not invented in WoW...sure it was invented by Blizzard, but it was invented in Starcraft wayyyyyyy back online.
Yeah, zerg refers to an old Starcraft tactic that comes about because the Zerg player can build up their infantry numbers much more cheaply and quickly than the Protoss or Terran players. They then send those numbers against the other team. An experienced player would have some simple defenses setup and beat the onslaught, but it caught inexperienced players unaware, especially at the start of the game. It simply means using numbers to overrun someone else, just wearing something down.
As far as the tactics working in War. Think of it this way. If you have a couple of people who get beat the first time around by a coordinated group, what's gonna happen to that same couple of people when they come rushing back? They're going to get picked off one by one because the rest of their group folds and gets their asses handed to them. They're going to have to regroup if they want any chance of beating the other team. The only place where zerging might have an effect, really, is if you're fighting them right next to their spawn point. The health and action point regen is far too fast for zerging to be a valid tactic, unless, of course, the other group is uncoordinated and simply using numbers, and then they might be able to wear the other team down, depending on how badly they outnumber them.
I'll give an example. I was a Chaos Zealot with some Chosen, Marauders, Sorcerers, Witch's, and some other Zealots. Those are the ones I remember anyway. We had quite a few people in the area and it was a town. We were over by Order's entry area into the RvR zone. We were lvl 7-11, I was 9 and the guards were lvl 20. Everytime we aggroed the Order NPC guards, we'd die horribly and quick. So we stayed back and sniped from hills and such, darting in to blast off a couple of spells and such. Order kept trying to rush and kept getting beat back. They broke through a couple of times, but then got beat back again. But one thing stands in my memory. There was a team of 3 guys, an engineer, an ironbreaker and a witch hunter. They came around from behind and broke through the lines and shredded our team a fair amount. The problem was, their team didn't support them, so that our numbers took them down, plus their lack of a healer. But they weakened us enough so that when their teammates finally attacked, they broke through. Of course, they couldn't withstand our counterattack and got pushed back to their lines. They also weren't using their cannons like they should have.
So when armies went to war back in the olden days, you would laugh at the side with the most knights cause they were "zerging"?
Actually its from Starcraft. One strategy was to build a shitload of zerglings and just rush the enemy base. They were cheap and fast to build so you got huge numbers very fast, hence the phrase zerging someone.
Hmm I can tell you for a fact that this game is not simply just a zerg and I can also tell you for a fact that you don't have to be part of a group to have any success in pvp.
With the short time I've played in CB there are other options available. I'll give you my example, I play a Maurauder (melee DPS) and I've found it quite enjoyable to sneak away from the pack. You can sneak behind the enemies lines and play havoc with their healers and casters or something else I used to great affect is to hide behind some hills by a road and ambush stragglers. This was often done solo, and every now and then a kind healer would come and help me, healer = god mode and despite having killed 1 guy and 4 of his buddies jumping in, I managed to kill another before I died.
Much of my pvp experience was with the 'pack' and one can think of it as 2 large forces attacking with ranged often with tanks in the midst being healed, there is a lot of probing attacks and this is where heals are important, cut of the weak links and eventually you got yourself an all-in brawl. Numbers often determine things here but the initial probing is quite fun.
I think people who aren't expecting zerg-like tactics to be used are looking for the wrong game tbh. If you can't handle this type of game look elsewhere. That is the nature of the game but like many MMOs there are little things which can make it fun. And as I demonstrated above you can go solo with success, don't be too quick to dismiss this game as some skilless zergfest.
Although my expericence is short with this game and I've only used the one melee dps class that is how its been for me so far, and I look forward to further test it, I still need a bigger picture of pvp to make an ultimate decision but so far its been fairly good.
In whatever zone is currently hottest (generally defaults to chaos vs empire) you usually have a big zerg vs zerg going on at one of the keeps. There are also smaller warbands running around capturing targets elsewhere. You can generally choose which style of play you want.
Because the tactics I've heard people mention just make me laugh... It seems that the only real tactic of getting anything done is to zerg here or zerg there ..... Would love to hear some other opinions with actual practical tactics...
Yes ZERG will rule all, except a well organized VoIP wargroup(s).
Etymology:New Latin tactica, from Greek taktik?, from feminine of taktikos
Date:1640
1 : a device for accomplishing an end
2 : a method of employing forces in combat
Reading through this post it seems a lot of people have no idea what "tactics" actually are. Going after the healer first is a tactic, flanking is a tactic, ambushing is a tactic, baiting is a tactic, hell even zerging is a tactic. What are you guys looking for? This is not an RTS.
It's a Jeep thing. . . _______ |___| \_______/ = |||||| = |X| \*........*/ |X| |X|_________|X| You wouldn't understand
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Why don't people ever read post history
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence.
Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
You know what? While 3 can't beat a zerg (mass number of uncoordinated players roaming in a pack), in the original days of DAOC a well coordinated team of two or three eight man groups could easily destroy a 50 person zerg through the use of the vicious crowd control spells the game had.
Heck, you could find yourself stunned, rooted etc for the entire fight (literally minutes) and the attacking group would pick everyone off one by one.
Mythic decided that mechanic wasn't much fun for the losers, so from what I understand they took most of it out.
If so, this should actually make the zergs more powerful as compared to the coordinated groups, but still, as mentioned, use of voice chat and good healing to dps mix should still win the day if the numbers aren't too one sided.
I suspect 20 vs 100 is a losing proposition (as it should be). Half the challenge of open world PVP is in avoiding the zerg and killing targets of opportunity, while not dying yourself.
People seem to forget these days, PVP combat doesn't always have to be fair.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
With a small nucleus team though, greater numbers can be beaten or at least denied the objective as the Beta was recent (and I doubt this will change). Of course folks have to work together and occasionally you are still going to die but thats 'taking one for the team', if you win in the end.
Yes it will definitely be a zerg tactic oriented game because there is no significant death penalty so there is no fear of dying and failing in combat.
Zerging, is the act of repeatedly attacking, dying, respawning, and reattacking in quick succession, especially with larger groups wether in PVE or PVP, in order to win in battle by overwhelming numbers. It's considered a sissy way to accomplish the goal because it involves no talent or skill or planning and only is possible because developers have designed a sissy game which doesn't hold players accountable for losing in battle.
pvp in WoW may be, pvp in eve is about fleet tactics and positioning (or nanos), pvp in planetside was all about heavy armour, pvp in AO was all about alphastrike, pvp in SWG was all about eyeshot.
listing a bunch of WoW CC stuff does not make you an authority on what makes good pvp. if you like the pvp in WoW so much (as you seem to) then go play that, it sounds perfect from what you describe.
The term tactical can just not be applied here.
Sure, some things like splitting groups and going for different objectives or trying to form an ambush or flanking are pointing a little into the direction of tactics.
But true tactical decisions, where things like weather conditions, vegetation, elevation, supply, speed, mobility come into play just don't apply to a game like WAR. And you know what? - It's SO good it is this way, because the game would not be half the fun if you have to apply real war tactical decisions...
In Germany we have this strange thing called military duty, were every young adult has to serve some months in the army. You get to know the basics of tactical infantry warfare and I tell you, it's NOT fun, it's basically what you would call - in any game - basecamping, camping, sniping and exploiting. So good thing its NOT even remotely there in WAR.
meridion
Actually, I first saw the term Zerging used in DAoC.
Only one of the three RVR areas in each tier has Zerg battles going on, but the rest are usually small scale skirmishes. Small guilds or organized players can dominate here, and I have never had more fun in a GAME, not just MMO, than when I organized a small party and even though Order was outnumbered 2:1 we took the entire Zone, snuck around and took objectives, avoided the zerg blob, and dominated everyone we saw even if there were many more players than us.
Zerg again only happens in one RVR area in each tier out of 3. So actually at any time you are playing there will only be one or maybe two Zerg battles you can join, and they are still fun. Stop trolling.
I do believe it originated from Starcraft (zergling; to zerg someone, back in 1998).
As I see a zerg is bassicly a rush of a large un-organized group, those will always fail against an organized group unless they are outnumbered by A LOT. Stupid example but sorry wow just springs out, a well organized team of 5 to 10 people can hold of a bunch of 40 in a battleground. Maybe because there are more idiots playing that game dunno, but hey war will have a larger player base then the average MMO so expect lot's of idiots there aswell.
In the end it all boils down to: are you having fun. Even in loosing a battlefield you can have loads of fun battles. How the tactics or fights will be: guess we'll see on release. Even after release things can change, for the worse or better...
I am not in beta, but from what I read and see in videos, the impression that the WAR PVP is mostly a Zerg results from the shortage of crowd control. Correct me if I am wrong, but I saw most non-melee apparently didnt have any useful stuns, roots or other attacks a.k.a. crowd control. Added the fact there is practically no stealth - another crowd control possibility - the logical result IS Zerg. Sure, good healers can compensate a bit, when when you dont have to fear to be backstabbed by invisible chars nor fear to be rooted or stunned any serious amound PLUS no death penality you make Zerg the only logical way people will fight. Its working as intended.
To make a tactical PVP, you would have to implement everything Mythic said right away they didnt want, like sneak classes, slow combat asf. I can imagine it is fun for 3-4 months and then people leave because its always the same. I dont expect WAR to be a bad game at all, but everything I hear and read sounds like a fast food game to me.
Probably the most widely used and most successful tactic ever used in all historical wars was zerging.
The most widely reknown battles are those where the outnumbered (tech being roughly comparable) beat the zerg, because it happens so very rarely.
The skill is using the zerg throughout the war to win the right battles.
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
Zerg is not terminology from WOW, it is an MMORPG term in general, it started way before WoW even saw the light of day.
Sooner or Later
Zerg is not terminology from WOW, it is an MMORPG term in general, it started way before WoW even saw the light of day.
thats not how the world works mate, if it was in WoW, then blizzard invented it and every game from now until the heat death of the universe HAS to have it in or its a missing feature. However if it is included, then said game is simply a WoW clone.
WoW had zerging, therefore WoW invented zerging, as there is zerging in WAR, it is just a wowclone but wow pvp was better because there was less zerging.
any questions?
Zerg is not terminology from WOW, it is an MMORPG term in general, it started way before WoW even saw the light of day.
thats not how the world works mate, if it was in WoW, then blizzard invented it and every game from now until the heat death of the universe HAS to have it in or its a missing feature. However if it is included, then said game is simply a WoW clone.
WoW had zerging, therefore WoW invented zerging, as there is zerging in WAR, it is just a wowclone but wow pvp was better because there was less zerging.
any questions?
Sorry i just have to point out the one flaw in your post...all gamers know that the term "Zerging" was not invented in WoW...sure it was invented by Blizzard, but it was invented in Starcraft wayyyyyyy back online.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rush_(computer_and_video_games)
(read the first 3 sentences lol)
*facepalm*
i suggest you get your sarcasm detector fixed.
i suggest you show sarcasm in a post for once...or just get ur facts straight....
Yeah, zerg refers to an old Starcraft tactic that comes about because the Zerg player can build up their infantry numbers much more cheaply and quickly than the Protoss or Terran players. They then send those numbers against the other team. An experienced player would have some simple defenses setup and beat the onslaught, but it caught inexperienced players unaware, especially at the start of the game. It simply means using numbers to overrun someone else, just wearing something down.
As far as the tactics working in War. Think of it this way. If you have a couple of people who get beat the first time around by a coordinated group, what's gonna happen to that same couple of people when they come rushing back? They're going to get picked off one by one because the rest of their group folds and gets their asses handed to them. They're going to have to regroup if they want any chance of beating the other team. The only place where zerging might have an effect, really, is if you're fighting them right next to their spawn point. The health and action point regen is far too fast for zerging to be a valid tactic, unless, of course, the other group is uncoordinated and simply using numbers, and then they might be able to wear the other team down, depending on how badly they outnumber them.
I'll give an example. I was a Chaos Zealot with some Chosen, Marauders, Sorcerers, Witch's, and some other Zealots. Those are the ones I remember anyway. We had quite a few people in the area and it was a town. We were over by Order's entry area into the RvR zone. We were lvl 7-11, I was 9 and the guards were lvl 20. Everytime we aggroed the Order NPC guards, we'd die horribly and quick. So we stayed back and sniped from hills and such, darting in to blast off a couple of spells and such. Order kept trying to rush and kept getting beat back. They broke through a couple of times, but then got beat back again. But one thing stands in my memory. There was a team of 3 guys, an engineer, an ironbreaker and a witch hunter. They came around from behind and broke through the lines and shredded our team a fair amount. The problem was, their team didn't support them, so that our numbers took them down, plus their lack of a healer. But they weakened us enough so that when their teammates finally attacked, they broke through. Of course, they couldn't withstand our counterattack and got pushed back to their lines. They also weren't using their cannons like they should have.
if you cant identify the sarcasm here then im amazed you can remember how to breathe.
if you cant identify the sarcasm here then im amazed you can remember how to breathe.
Seriously I saw it from skimming your post.
Actually its from Starcraft. One strategy was to build a shitload of zerglings and just rush the enemy base. They were cheap and fast to build so you got huge numbers very fast, hence the phrase zerging someone.
---
Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
Hmm I can tell you for a fact that this game is not simply just a zerg and I can also tell you for a fact that you don't have to be part of a group to have any success in pvp.
With the short time I've played in CB there are other options available. I'll give you my example, I play a Maurauder (melee DPS) and I've found it quite enjoyable to sneak away from the pack. You can sneak behind the enemies lines and play havoc with their healers and casters or something else I used to great affect is to hide behind some hills by a road and ambush stragglers. This was often done solo, and every now and then a kind healer would come and help me, healer = god mode and despite having killed 1 guy and 4 of his buddies jumping in, I managed to kill another before I died.
Much of my pvp experience was with the 'pack' and one can think of it as 2 large forces attacking with ranged often with tanks in the midst being healed, there is a lot of probing attacks and this is where heals are important, cut of the weak links and eventually you got yourself an all-in brawl. Numbers often determine things here but the initial probing is quite fun.
I think people who aren't expecting zerg-like tactics to be used are looking for the wrong game tbh. If you can't handle this type of game look elsewhere. That is the nature of the game but like many MMOs there are little things which can make it fun. And as I demonstrated above you can go solo with success, don't be too quick to dismiss this game as some skilless zergfest.
Although my expericence is short with this game and I've only used the one melee dps class that is how its been for me so far, and I look forward to further test it, I still need a bigger picture of pvp to make an ultimate decision but so far its been fairly good.
O_o o_O
In whatever zone is currently hottest (generally defaults to chaos vs empire) you usually have a big zerg vs zerg going on at one of the keeps. There are also smaller warbands running around capturing targets elsewhere. You can generally choose which style of play you want.
Yes ZERG will rule all, except a well organized VoIP wargroup(s).
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|X| \*........*/ |X|
|X|_________|X|
You wouldn't understand