Because you have fun? Must be a difficult concept.
A fun but stagnate and static game should not require monthly fee in my opinion.
Vanguard is dead in development and creativity.
GU6 just rolled on the testserver.
Yes and it is a major disappointment
It seems they dont even have art direction, just check the new "heroic" models...
Luckily its dead so we dont have any discussion about heroic models.
Conformisn?
So, you enjoy the game but you just dont care if even FTP mmos hame better development?
Actually no. If you think f2p are better... dont let youself be stopped playing them. After playing f2p mmorpgs for one year I can savely say that I prefer p2p games. Even the ones which are dead.
I didnt say they are better, I said they have better development, they have, at least, art direction. If I pay for a game I would expect at least that.
We dont need to wait for War to realise if Vanguard will survive or not, we just need to check the new models, the last updates and take a look in the upcoming Everquest 2 interesting expansion.
Ah yeah. EQ2 is obviously a shining example of difference. Let me head to the EQ2 forum.... seventh thread from the start...
Looks like there are also people thinking that EQ2 is dead.
Yes, Everquest 2 is indeed a shinning example, just take a look in the amount of content, updates, quality dungeons, raids etc
You are trying to see this as just a matter of playerbase, this is not the issue... if you are trying to say Everquest 2 is dying even with an upcoming expansion, what can you say about Vanguard, a game that will NEVER expand.
But if the majority of Vanguard community share the same point of view as you Shol, I understand why SOE doesnt care about Vanguard, even the small playerbase doesnt care.
Wait... who is telling everyone VG is dead. Is that me or you?
Btw, thanks that you equal me with the small playerbase, but I really think there are more people beside me playing.
I know the game shol, you are not talking with a troll that never played Vanguard
A dead MMO is a MMO that will never expand, Vanguard will be up for a while, like Matrix online... do you think this is an example of a living MMO? A good example of a game you pay to play?
Maybe your expectations are too high?
No, what I excpect happens with almost all PTP MMORPGs.
Lets agree to disagree if this is what you expect from a MMO...
After reading some of the idiotic comments from people who don't even play VG, it definately has the best community by far.
As a game, if you don't mind a little lag in certain towns, its the best MMORPG out there.
I love this game, its amazing.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS) Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS) Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
Metalcore, I dont know if you realised but one of the main issues is exacly one of the upcoming features , the ridiculous new models, check the official forum, people are posting screenshots showing the models are worse than before.
You dont know who play and who dont play the game here, and it is ironic see you talking about how you enjoy a good community calling someone´s arguments idiotic.
Originally posted by Umbral Metalcore, I dont know if you realised but one of the main issues is exacly one of the upcoming features , the ridiculous new models, check the official forum, people are posting screenshots showing the models are worse than before. You dont know who play and who dont play the game here, and it is ironic see you talking about how you enjoy a good community calling people indiotic.
...
The whole point of the models on test is for player feed back.
Of course changing everyones appearance will led to forum comments.
I dont find the new models ridiculous, they need adjustment from player feed back.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS) Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
i have always said this game has a ton of potential, unfortunately the limited development budget, lack of support from the SOE bigwigs, and quite frankly untalented development staff that is currently running the game kills that potential. the vanguard team did a great job debuging someone else's good iea... their own ideas fall well short of the mark.
Yes Hoppy, you are right.
Vanguard time is over, it is sad see a game that could be good in the hands of untalented people.
A MMO that will never evolve has no value.
Even SWG has a better future and a better present, just check the last SWG updates, far more interesting than what we see in Vanguard´s updates in the last 6 months.
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Shame Umbral ...but son you are way off .When was the last time you played Vanguard, if it was in the last 3-4 months then you comments are one of 2 things
1. A lie
2. A statement made by someone suffering from a form of dementia
I joined Vanguard 3 months ago and play 3-5 times a week .The game rocks .There are many new players joining everyday .It offers 3 choices of level progression ..Adventure, harvesting and diplomacy. There are thousands of quests and innovative dungeons to explore .There are flying mounts and houses players can build and own. Then some say the game has bugs and the Dev’s don’t pay attention to this, the new Update GU6 is going to address over 1000 bugs ...so that statement is garbage.
You don’t have to believe me about the resurgence of the game ...so I challenge you to go to the official SonyVanguard forums and read the posts by the Newbies and people joining. Please go through several pages and look at the general posts
If you have time to run the game down you must have time to do this ...I’ll even include the link for you
Because you have fun? Must be a difficult concept.
Vanguard is dead in development and creativity.
GU6 just rolled on the testserver.
It seems they dont even have art direction, just check the new "heroic" models...
Luckily its dead so we dont have any discussion about heroic models.
So, you enjoy the game but you just dont care if even FTP mmos hame better development?
Actually no. If you think f2p are better... dont let youself be stopped playing them. After playing f2p mmorpgs for one year I can savely say that I prefer p2p games. Even the ones which are dead.
We dont need to wait for War to realise if Vanguard will survive or not, we just need to check the new models, the last updates and take a look in the upcoming Everquest 2 interesting expansion.
Ah yeah. EQ2 is obviously a shining example of difference. Let me head to the EQ2 forum.... seventh thread from the start...
Looks like there are also people thinking that EQ2 is dead.
But if the majority of Vanguard community share the same point of view as you Shol, I understand why SOE doesnt care about Vanguard, even the small playerbase doesnt care.
Wait... who is telling everyone VG is dead. Is that me or you?
Btw, thanks that you equal me with the small playerbase, but I really think there are more people beside me playing.
A dead MMO is a MMO that will never expand, Vanguard will be up for a while, like Matrix online... do you think this is an example of a living MMO? A good example of a game you pay to play?
If I would have fun playing Matrix Online I would go and pay for it.
Oh yes, people can play it, but, well, Vanguard could be more than that...
VG could be more, yes. But I learned in years of playing such games that there isnt the ideal mmorpg out. One lacks graphics, one lacks animation, the other content, next one has bad pvp, over there you see several bot infeasted and gameplay broken with hacks & exploits, back to games where the technic lacks, the GMs are a bunch of morons, the server is empty, the community is a joke, patches and expansions are full of bugs and so on. In the end the one which has everything is the holy grail youll never find.
You have to make compromises and you have to ask yourself "is it worth for me?" As long as you can say "yes!" I dont see a problem paying for a game.
Maybe your expectations are too high?
GU6 did just roll on the test server... and there is no content... its 95% bug fixes and nerfs. Pantheon you say? their recent posts imply it wont be ready for GU6 and after 2 years they get 1 new are out.
the new character models are just awful, all they really do is show the lack of talent on the dev team.
Vanguards population had a small surge when they did the free to play month, but it has gone back down. The free to play demo which they have spent their entire development budget on is so-so, and the area into which it dumps you (Veskal's) is one of the buggiest and least optimized in the game, with a typical framerate for me of around 15 (i run 30ish elsewhere as a reference.)
Have you logged in to EQ2 recently? I did during the living legacy. It too has hit the 0 growth phase, groups are near impossible to find, and new players are rare at best. i had played it shortly after relese and when i went back for this just to look people couldnt believe i was an actual "new" player coming back.
He is not referencing your ideas that the game is dead, he is referencing the blind optimism where as long as you can pay to play it the game is alive. even if its just you and 3 friends.
Unfortunately for Vanguard, in your last paragraph it has everything wrong that you describe about a whole slew of other mmo's (excepting the fairly friendly community.)
And of course in mocking him about his high standards... thats isnt what he was saying. Vanguard had TONS of potential at release. McQuaid and Co. horribly mismanaged the development and butchered the programing but the idea was great!
SOE came along and I'll admit did a great job for the first year fixing all the bugs and performance. but now that we can see where they are going to take the game now that it is possible to move forward, their direction and concepts are less than stellar.
Factional Armor, great idea... oh wait hours and hours and hours of farming to get crap after it was nerfed due to high end raider crying!
Flying Mounts cool! oh wait, a massive cockblock in NT as high end guilds chain camp all the mobs for plat coins.
Glowing sparkly ground spawns and chests, easier leveling, possible to reach max level in 3 weeks of casual playing, the list can go on and on and on.
Is the game dead? no, you're right its not. But at best it is stagnant and with no support from SOE it will always remain so.
Metalcore, I dont know if you realised but one of the main issues is exacly one of the upcoming features , the ridiculous new models, check the official forum, people are posting screenshots showing the models are worse than before.
You dont know who play and who dont play the game here, and it is ironic see you talking about how you enjoy a good community calling people indiotic.
...
The whole point of the models on test is for player feed back.
Of course changing everyones appearance will led to forum comments.
I dont find the new models ridiculous, they need adjustment from player feed back.
sorry bud but those models on test are the finished models as previewed at fan faire. they were shoved on test to check to see how the armor graphics drew on them to fix any bugs with that. They were also pushed rapidly on to test to stop the massive flame threads that were going on after FF.
It is not about gloom. If you enjoy the game, why not expect more from devs and patches? And by "more" I mean the standart MMO development, without that everyone should ask, what is happening with the monthly fee? Why pay? Vanguard is dead in development and creativity. It seems they dont even have art direction, just check the new "heroic" models... So, you enjoy the game but you just dont care if even FTP mmos have better development? We dont need to wait for War to realise if Vanguard will survive or not, we just need to check the new models, the last updates and take a look in the upcoming Everquest 2 interesting expansion. But if the majority of Vanguard community share the same point of view as you Shol, I understand why SOE doesnt care about Vanguard, even the small playerbase doesnt care. A dead MMO is a MMO that will never expand, Vanguard will be up for a while, like Matrix online... do you think this is an example of a living MMO? A good example of a game you pay to play? Oh yes, people can play it, but, well, Vanguard could be more than that...
...
Standard development like Wow has?? haha Wow gets less dev time then VG by quite a bit from what I've seen. At least if we are judging by stuff done. Anyway VG has gotten quite a lot of work in the last year and they devs are talking about adding content and have been adding content and revamping areas. I think you over exagerate when you compare it to Matrix which has had no content other then minor GM story progression events occassionally. VG has a Ton of content now more then most games and the devs have been adding content.
Could it have more and would it be more exciting with more content, and expansion, increases to level caps, implementation of AA?! You bet!! but it is far from dead or in straight maint mode. I do think the next 6 months will be significant. As the trial island launches and SoE puts some marketing into the game seeing sub growth will help speed some of these things. If it doesn't grow or looses ground then yeah without substantial investment it will fade away.
That said VG is in my opinion the best PvE oriented game on the market today and I don't see any other games coming that will compete with it that really look interesting.
Have you ever heard of the old saying "it takes money to make money"?
This is where Vanguard is right now.
First off, it is a very solid product after the last year and a half of development. I am glad to see they are starting the free trial island because it gives people a chance that are "on the fence" about the product a chance to see it shine. Secondly, he game has a ton of stigma from its poor release but it has done a complete 180 imo and this trial will give people the opportunity to see that; new players and old. SoE knows it has a great product that is very viable in the mmorpg market. By attracting new players it will, and back to the old saying, "it takes money to make money" be able to refine the game even more.
The arguement that Vanguard "is dead" and "has no player base" really isnt viable. Let the game speak for itself. Its my hope that people are not as sheepish and conformist, choosing only to play a game with a huge population even if its a game that is not as good. Vangaurd is a Great game and in my opinion offers any game currently released some VERY stiff competition. Sony is banking that its free trial will show it and I am convinced myself that with a little advertising effort in conjuntion will definitely attract new players. Let the product speak for itself - Give people the opportunity to free trial the product. gg sony.
The arguement that Vanguard "is dead" and "has no player base" really isnt viable.
What about the argument Vanguard is dead because the devs have absolute no talent when we talk about creation?
What about the argument Vanguard is dead because there will never be an expansion and after so many time the only real good content update was APW?
What about Vanguard is dead because they are incapable to create anything that is related to art, any really new monster or humanoid creature? Check the new models, check their bodies, they only have 4 packs in their six packs ultra muscular new bodies, check Everquest 2 animal races and now check the Vanguard new models...
You were in beta? Beta models were far better and expressive than the pseudo heroic new ones.
Dont tell me you belive that after the trial isle the population will grow and they will finally get more people beside debbugers to work with them.
Standard development like Wow has?? haha Wow gets less dev time then VG by quite a bit from what I've seen. At least if we are judging by stuff done. Anyway VG has gotten quite a lot of work in the last year and they devs are talking about adding content and have been adding content and revamping areas. I think you over exagerate when you compare it to Matrix which has had no content other then minor GM story progression events occassionally. VG has a Ton of content now more then most games and the devs have been adding content. Could it have more and would it be more exciting with more content, and expansion, increases to level caps, implementation of AA?! You bet!! but it is far from dead or in straight maint mode. I do think the next 6 months will be significant. As the trial island launches and SoE puts some marketing into the game seeing sub growth will help speed some of these things. If it doesn't grow or looses ground then yeah without substantial investment it will fade away. That said VG is in my opinion the best PvE oriented game on the market today and I don't see any other games coming that will compete with it that really look interesting.
I dont know Ethion, I dont play WoW, by standart Im talking about what happens with L2, EQ2, Lotro, GW, EvE etc...
A PvE game need content, you cant compare Vanguard with Everquest 2 and keep in mind both are from SOE and both have a low population.
Vanguard Devs only know how to debugger and cut travelling time in Vanguard.
Everything they added was based on aspects already created from Sigil, from dungeons walls to creatures.
If you check the new models they hyped so much, you will realise they cant even draw a muscular abs or shoulders.
They are using the Unreal 2.5 engine, trust-me , it is not hard to create good models using this engine, they just dont know how to create anything, they are just simple programers that can fix some issues, nothing more.
Everquest 2 even with ultra low population has new content all the time, this will never happen with Vanguard, as I dont belive anymore they will get more people to their team beside the arrogant Silus and his incapable friends.
Vanguard has a good core and it is a pretty good PVE game for only 3 months, nothing more, you cant say the game has tons of content if you compare to any other MMO.
Vanguard´s big world may create this illusion, but it is nothing more than an illusion.
The arguement that Vanguard "is dead" and "has no player base" really isnt viable.
What about the argument Vanguard is dead because the devs have absolute no talent when we talk about creation?
What about the argument Vanguard is dead because there will never be an expansion and after so many time the only real good content update was APW?
What about Vanguard is dead because they are incapable to create anything that is related to art, any really new monster or humanoid creature? Check the new models, check their bodies, they only have 4 packs in their six packs ultra muscular new bodies, check Everquest 2 animal races and now check the Vanguard new models...
You were in beta? Beta models were far better and expressive than the pseudo heroic new ones.
Dont tell me you belive that after the trial isle the population will grow and they will finally get more people beside debbugers to work with them.
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Im sorry, VG isnt dead because you say so. VG doesnt have full servers but its by far from being dead. Actually, thanks to AoC, its getting a push.
Your argument about the models is funny. You always complain that VG doesnt get new content and if you get new content, the content isnt worth anything. Looks to me, that whatever the devs are doing they will never satisfy you, or its at least damn hard. So you dislike the models. Ok, fair enough I dislike some of the models too. But thats hardly the end of the world or VG. Beside were talking about something on the testserver and some models seem unfinished, also they are still tweaking. Lets see what in the end will be put on live.
And about EQ2... check AoC models. Thats one of the few awesome things in this game. Check PW chars against EQ2 ones... Looks a lot better IMHO.
I wasnt in the VG beta, but those models were pretty fast culled. They look nicer on screenshots, but it seems people prefer a playable game instead of eye candy. So they went down the drain.
And about the trial island... No clue if more people will play VG but if the trial is available I definitey wont sit here typing walls of text, instead I will simply write "download the trial, check for YOURSELF, like it? Pay. Dont like? Move on".
Im sorry, VG isnt dead because you say so. VG doesnt have full servers but its by far from being dead. Actually, thanks to AoC, its getting a push. Shol, I never said anything about full servers, I dont care how many people play, for you a dead mmo is a mmo without players and servers. For me a dead mmo is a mmo without expanding content, expanding art and creation, for my standarts, Vanguard is dead now. Your argument about the models is funny. You always complain that VG doesnt get new content and if you get new content, the content isnt worth anything. Looks to me, that whatever the devs are doing they will never satisfy you, or its at least damn hard. So you dislike the models. Ok, fair enough I dislike some of the models too. But thats hardly the end of the world or VG. Beside were talking about something on the testserver and some models seem unfinished, also they are still tweaking. Lets see what in the end will be put on live. Shol, new models are not new content, they returned with the customization they removed, beta models were better, just check the official forums, every veteran player knows that. Remove old content and bring new but worse content, at least for me, is not cool. I dont know why you have the impression Im asking for too much. How much time they needed to bring these models? Months and Months, do you belive that after a couple of weeks of tweaking they will improve that? Shol, these devs dont know how to draw a muscular abs in a simple texture, Im not talking about normal mapped abs, Im talking about ultra simple textures, check the new female faces and compare with the first version of models. And about EQ2... check AoC models. Thats one of the few awesome things in this game. Check PW chars against EQ2 ones... Looks a lot better IMHO. Yes, AOC models are better than EQ2 models for sure, War models are very well done too, those War models in high res textures will be awesome and will not overload our graphic cards, you know why? Because there are artists working with Warhammer production, there are artists in AOC and even PW...well, there are some artists working with EQ2 too, but with Vanguard, well, we know the answer, there were artists with Sigil, but Sillus and his friends are a joke in this area, if they cant even create a human body, dont expect unique and impressive dungeon bosses or ordinary creatures.... I wasnt in the VG beta, but those models were pretty fast culled. They look nicer on screenshots, but it seems people prefer a playable game instead of eye candy. So they went down the drain. Today they would be playable, everyone can run Vanguard these days. Well Shol, we disagree and we will have to live with that.
I dont know Ethion, I dont play WoW, by standart Im talking about what happens with L2, EQ2, Lotro, GW, EvE etc...
I played WoW and some of the mentioned games. They are all good games in different ways.
A PvE game need content, you cant compare Vanguard with Everquest 2 and keep in mind both are from SOE and both have a low population.
I maybe dont understand, that but so far its you always pulling the EQ2 card?
Everything they added was based on aspects already created from Sigil, from dungeons walls to creatures
I dont see anything bad with that. I think Blizzard recycles Naxramas in the next expansion, Funcom used the AO combatsystem for AoC and so on... So.. yeah. *shrug*
Everquest 2 even with ultra low population has new content all the time, this will never happen with Vanguard, as I dont belive anymore they will get more people to their team beside the arrogant Silus and his incapable friends.
Why suddenly the hate? VG might not get the traditional expansionpack (+10 levels, +new zones, +new raids, +...) but there will be new content. It might take more time like in games with more developer power though.
Vanguard has a good core and it is a pretty good PVE game for only 3 months, nothing more, you cant say the game has tons of content if you compare to any other MMO.
Well, it took me 6 weeks to level a char to 50 and people say that Im not the slowest one. I still have 49 quests in my book at least 40 are for level 50 chars, so Im pretty sure I wont run out of content the next months. VG HAS tons of content, I disagree completely. Not many games offer the feature to disable xp gain so you wont outlevel content. Most games raise with every expansionpack the levelcap and soon they introduce mechanics which allow the players to level up faster in the early levels. So they encourage to burn through the content and in the same process make it void. This is pretty stupid. But this shouldnt be discussed in this thread.
Vanguard´s big world may create this illusion, but it is nothing more than an illusion.
Actually thats a compliment. If a mmorpg gives a player the illusion of a wide, open world, it did something right.
For me a dead mmo is a mmo without expanding content, expanding art and creation, for my standarts, Vanguard is dead now.
Well how about "a dead mmorpg can be recognized by no ones playing it and now new content?" If so, VG seems to be a mmorpg bursting with life. (ok, a joke, I want to make sure that nobody thinks thats dead-serious)
Shol, new models are not new content,..
Hmm, thats kinda true. Luckily we get beside the new models, a brand new starter isle, which is, I checked it out yesterday, pretty big. And we get plate bikinis!!
Remove old content and bring new but worse content, at least for me, is not cool.
I honestly would also love to have the beta models. They look awesome on screens & vids. I remember playing EQ2 and that I was kinda dissappointed that the armor & weapons in the trailers werent in the game. At that time the offical reason was performance problems. Deja vue somehow.
...do you belive that after a couple of weeks of tweaking they will improve that?
Well, I hope. Some models are improved and a lot of others will look better with different settings (for example smaller noses, wider shoulders, a slight tug at the corners of a mouth and so on...) Some I fear wont satisfy me (hulk-druid looks ridiculous, animal classes look bad atm).
...there were artists with Sigil, but Sillus and his friends are a joke in this area, if they cant even create a human body, dont expect unique and impressive dungeon bosses or ordinary creatures....
I think they do what they can. Someone wrote in this fan fare report that they dont have an animator which is kinda sad.
Today they would be playable, everyone can run Vanguard these days.
I think your rig is too good compared to the average ones. For example I dont have a problem running 20-30 fps all the time on fairly high settings (I cant run everything max though), but people coming from WoW will have a hard time running VG and as we all know WoW is kinda a benchmark for mmorpg-machines. The program still needs some good hardware I fear.
Yeah vanguard could certainly have more dev time for sure. I'd love to see more content and more stuff added and I'd love to see an expansion.
It would be great if SoE ramped up the effort on vanguard.
But it is what it is. Vanguard is still a great game and it still has a ton of content far more then most of the games on the market that have been released recently. It also has great replayability with diverse classes that actually are unique and interesting and beyond that the world is so diverse that it actually takes playing it through a couple times to get all the content.
Now today it has one raid and partheon revamp will be in soon not to mention the new Island zone. So they are in fact adding stuff to it and it isn't totally stagnant. They have spent a lot of time fixing things and that is the Right priority. All the content in the world won't matter if the game won't run on my computer. Today it isn't the same game it was at release by any measure.
Revamping the character models and redoing the models to support helms and improve performance is a nice trick and making the models look better in the process is no small job. I think you understate what they have accomplished and I'm interested to see what they accomplish in the coming months as they shift more from a fixit mode to a content development mode.
Other things you fail to see are the internal development things they are doing. One of the common themes with VG at launch was that the development tools were virtually non existant and this was also a priority. I'm sure this situation has improved substantially in the past months.
So while you can focus in on all the things that are important to you, or that soe isn't investing as much as you like or that there are not hundreds of developers or that you don't like the new character models or countless other things. One thing that is clear, you have no interest in Vanguard.
So umbral and friends enjoy ranting and I will enjoy playing I'll continue to feel optimistic about the things they are doing and the hard work the dev team is putting in. In any event I hope you are having as much fun trolling as I am playing the game.
I know this isn't really the right thread to post this in, but if anyone has an extra buddy key, please message me it or email it. raidthespade@yahoo.com Thanks
if someone has a buddy key I would be much appreciated, had been asking for a long time and no one sent me one, so, if anyone has one.... bmltavares@gmail.com
if someone has a buddy key I would be much appreciated, had been asking for a long time and no one sent me one, so, if anyone has one.... bmltavares@gmail.com
Comments
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/192836
Looks like there are also people thinking that EQ2 is dead. Wait... who is telling everyone VG is dead. Is that me or you?
Btw, thanks that you equal me with the small playerbase, but I really think there are more people beside me playing.
Maybe your expectations are too high?
No, what I excpect happens with almost all PTP MMORPGs.
Lets agree to disagree if this is what you expect from a MMO...
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After reading some of the idiotic comments from people who don't even play VG, it definately has the best community by far.
As a game, if you don't mind a little lag in certain towns, its the best MMORPG out there.
I love this game, its amazing.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
Oh for a game that is dead, check out whats coming...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otpzk0i9uYM
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
Metalcore, I dont know if you realised but one of the main issues is exacly one of the upcoming features , the ridiculous new models, check the official forum, people are posting screenshots showing the models are worse than before.
You dont know who play and who dont play the game here, and it is ironic see you talking about how you enjoy a good community calling someone´s arguments idiotic.
...
The whole point of the models on test is for player feed back.
Of course changing everyones appearance will led to forum comments.
I dont find the new models ridiculous, they need adjustment from player feed back.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
Yes Hoppy, you are right.
Vanguard time is over, it is sad see a game that could be good in the hands of untalented people.
A MMO that will never evolve has no value.
Even SWG has a better future and a better present, just check the last SWG updates, far more interesting than what we see in Vanguard´s updates in the last 6 months.
...
"after the time of dice came the day of mice "
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/192836
Looks like there are also people thinking that EQ2 is dead. Wait... who is telling everyone VG is dead. Is that me or you?
Btw, thanks that you equal me with the small playerbase, but I really think there are more people beside me playing.
You have to make compromises and you have to ask yourself "is it worth for me?" As long as you can say "yes!" I dont see a problem paying for a game.
Maybe your expectations are too high?
GU6 did just roll on the test server... and there is no content... its 95% bug fixes and nerfs. Pantheon you say? their recent posts imply it wont be ready for GU6 and after 2 years they get 1 new are out.
the new character models are just awful, all they really do is show the lack of talent on the dev team.
Vanguards population had a small surge when they did the free to play month, but it has gone back down. The free to play demo which they have spent their entire development budget on is so-so, and the area into which it dumps you (Veskal's) is one of the buggiest and least optimized in the game, with a typical framerate for me of around 15 (i run 30ish elsewhere as a reference.)
Have you logged in to EQ2 recently? I did during the living legacy. It too has hit the 0 growth phase, groups are near impossible to find, and new players are rare at best. i had played it shortly after relese and when i went back for this just to look people couldnt believe i was an actual "new" player coming back.
He is not referencing your ideas that the game is dead, he is referencing the blind optimism where as long as you can pay to play it the game is alive. even if its just you and 3 friends.
Unfortunately for Vanguard, in your last paragraph it has everything wrong that you describe about a whole slew of other mmo's (excepting the fairly friendly community.)
And of course in mocking him about his high standards... thats isnt what he was saying. Vanguard had TONS of potential at release. McQuaid and Co. horribly mismanaged the development and butchered the programing but the idea was great!
SOE came along and I'll admit did a great job for the first year fixing all the bugs and performance. but now that we can see where they are going to take the game now that it is possible to move forward, their direction and concepts are less than stellar.
Factional Armor, great idea... oh wait hours and hours and hours of farming to get crap after it was nerfed due to high end raider crying!
Flying Mounts cool! oh wait, a massive cockblock in NT as high end guilds chain camp all the mobs for plat coins.
Glowing sparkly ground spawns and chests, easier leveling, possible to reach max level in 3 weeks of casual playing, the list can go on and on and on.
Is the game dead? no, you're right its not. But at best it is stagnant and with no support from SOE it will always remain so.
The whole point of the models on test is for player feed back.
Of course changing everyones appearance will led to forum comments.
I dont find the new models ridiculous, they need adjustment from player feed back.
sorry bud but those models on test are the finished models as previewed at fan faire. they were shoved on test to check to see how the armor graphics drew on them to fix any bugs with that. They were also pushed rapidly on to test to stop the massive flame threads that were going on after FF.
Standard development like Wow has?? haha Wow gets less dev time then VG by quite a bit from what I've seen. At least if we are judging by stuff done. Anyway VG has gotten quite a lot of work in the last year and they devs are talking about adding content and have been adding content and revamping areas. I think you over exagerate when you compare it to Matrix which has had no content other then minor GM story progression events occassionally. VG has a Ton of content now more then most games and the devs have been adding content.
Could it have more and would it be more exciting with more content, and expansion, increases to level caps, implementation of AA?! You bet!! but it is far from dead or in straight maint mode. I do think the next 6 months will be significant. As the trial island launches and SoE puts some marketing into the game seeing sub growth will help speed some of these things. If it doesn't grow or looses ground then yeah without substantial investment it will fade away.
That said VG is in my opinion the best PvE oriented game on the market today and I don't see any other games coming that will compete with it that really look interesting.
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Ethion
Have you ever heard of the old saying "it takes money to make money"?
This is where Vanguard is right now.
First off, it is a very solid product after the last year and a half of development. I am glad to see they are starting the free trial island because it gives people a chance that are "on the fence" about the product a chance to see it shine. Secondly, he game has a ton of stigma from its poor release but it has done a complete 180 imo and this trial will give people the opportunity to see that; new players and old. SoE knows it has a great product that is very viable in the mmorpg market. By attracting new players it will, and back to the old saying, "it takes money to make money" be able to refine the game even more.
The arguement that Vanguard "is dead" and "has no player base" really isnt viable. Let the game speak for itself. Its my hope that people are not as sheepish and conformist, choosing only to play a game with a huge population even if its a game that is not as good. Vangaurd is a Great game and in my opinion offers any game currently released some VERY stiff competition. Sony is banking that its free trial will show it and I am convinced myself that with a little advertising effort in conjuntion will definitely attract new players. Let the product speak for itself - Give people the opportunity to free trial the product. gg sony.
This is why you didnt understand me, Im talking about the lack of talent from devs, lack of content update and development from the release till now.
Devs are good to fix technical issues, this is the only good aspec.
...
What about the argument Vanguard is dead because the devs have absolute no talent when we talk about creation?
What about the argument Vanguard is dead because there will never be an expansion and after so many time the only real good content update was APW?
What about Vanguard is dead because they are incapable to create anything that is related to art, any really new monster or humanoid creature? Check the new models, check their bodies, they only have 4 packs in their six packs ultra muscular new bodies, check Everquest 2 animal races and now check the Vanguard new models...
You were in beta? Beta models were far better and expressive than the pseudo heroic new ones.
Dont tell me you belive that after the trial isle the population will grow and they will finally get more people beside debbugers to work with them.
...
I dont know Ethion, I dont play WoW, by standart Im talking about what happens with L2, EQ2, Lotro, GW, EvE etc...
A PvE game need content, you cant compare Vanguard with Everquest 2 and keep in mind both are from SOE and both have a low population.
Vanguard Devs only know how to debugger and cut travelling time in Vanguard.
Everything they added was based on aspects already created from Sigil, from dungeons walls to creatures.
If you check the new models they hyped so much, you will realise they cant even draw a muscular abs or shoulders.
They are using the Unreal 2.5 engine, trust-me , it is not hard to create good models using this engine, they just dont know how to create anything, they are just simple programers that can fix some issues, nothing more.
Everquest 2 even with ultra low population has new content all the time, this will never happen with Vanguard, as I dont belive anymore they will get more people to their team beside the arrogant Silus and his incapable friends.
Vanguard has a good core and it is a pretty good PVE game for only 3 months, nothing more, you cant say the game has tons of content if you compare to any other MMO.
Vanguard´s big world may create this illusion, but it is nothing more than an illusion.
...
What about the argument Vanguard is dead because the devs have absolute no talent when we talk about creation?
What about the argument Vanguard is dead because there will never be an expansion and after so many time the only real good content update was APW?
What about Vanguard is dead because they are incapable to create anything that is related to art, any really new monster or humanoid creature? Check the new models, check their bodies, they only have 4 packs in their six packs ultra muscular new bodies, check Everquest 2 animal races and now check the Vanguard new models...
You were in beta? Beta models were far better and expressive than the pseudo heroic new ones.
Dont tell me you belive that after the trial isle the population will grow and they will finally get more people beside debbugers to work with them.
...
Im sorry, VG isnt dead because you say so. VG doesnt have full servers but its by far from being dead. Actually, thanks to AoC, its getting a push.
Your argument about the models is funny. You always complain that VG doesnt get new content and if you get new content, the content isnt worth anything. Looks to me, that whatever the devs are doing they will never satisfy you, or its at least damn hard. So you dislike the models. Ok, fair enough I dislike some of the models too. But thats hardly the end of the world or VG. Beside were talking about something on the testserver and some models seem unfinished, also they are still tweaking. Lets see what in the end will be put on live.
And about EQ2... check AoC models. Thats one of the few awesome things in this game. Check PW chars against EQ2 ones... Looks a lot better IMHO.
I wasnt in the VG beta, but those models were pretty fast culled. They look nicer on screenshots, but it seems people prefer a playable game instead of eye candy. So they went down the drain.
And about the trial island... No clue if more people will play VG but if the trial is available I definitey wont sit here typing walls of text, instead I will simply write "download the trial, check for YOURSELF, like it? Pay. Dont like? Move on".
VG HAS tons of content, I disagree completely. Not many games offer the feature to disable xp gain so you wont outlevel content. Most games raise with every expansionpack the levelcap and soon they introduce mechanics which allow the players to level up faster in the early levels. So they encourage to burn through the content and in the same process make it void. This is pretty stupid. But this shouldnt be discussed in this thread. Actually thats a compliment. If a mmorpg gives a player the illusion of a wide, open world, it did something right.
Well how about "a dead mmorpg can be recognized by no ones playing it and now new content?" If so, VG seems to be a mmorpg bursting with life.
Hmm, thats kinda true. Luckily we get beside the new models, a brand new starter isle, which is, I checked it out yesterday, pretty big. And we get plate bikinis!!
I honestly would also love to have the beta models. They look awesome on screens & vids. I remember playing EQ2 and that I was kinda dissappointed that the armor & weapons in the trailers werent in the game. At that time the offical reason was performance problems. Deja vue somehow.
Well, I hope. Some models are improved and a lot of others will look better with different settings (for example smaller noses, wider shoulders, a slight tug at the corners of a mouth and so on...) Some I fear wont satisfy me (hulk-druid looks ridiculous, animal classes look bad atm).
I think they do what they can. Someone wrote in this fan fare report that they dont have an animator which is kinda sad.
I think your rig is too good compared to the average ones. For example I dont have a problem running 20-30 fps all the time on fairly high settings (I cant run everything max though), but people coming from WoW will have a hard time running VG and as we all know WoW is kinda a benchmark for mmorpg-machines. The program still needs some good hardware I fear.
I know this isn't really the right thread to post this in, but if anyone has an extra buddy key, please message me it or email it.
raidthespade@yahoo.com
Thanks
Yeah vanguard could certainly have more dev time for sure. I'd love to see more content and more stuff added and I'd love to see an expansion.
It would be great if SoE ramped up the effort on vanguard.
But it is what it is. Vanguard is still a great game and it still has a ton of content far more then most of the games on the market that have been released recently. It also has great replayability with diverse classes that actually are unique and interesting and beyond that the world is so diverse that it actually takes playing it through a couple times to get all the content.
Now today it has one raid and partheon revamp will be in soon not to mention the new Island zone. So they are in fact adding stuff to it and it isn't totally stagnant. They have spent a lot of time fixing things and that is the Right priority. All the content in the world won't matter if the game won't run on my computer. Today it isn't the same game it was at release by any measure.
Revamping the character models and redoing the models to support helms and improve performance is a nice trick and making the models look better in the process is no small job. I think you understate what they have accomplished and I'm interested to see what they accomplish in the coming months as they shift more from a fixit mode to a content development mode.
Other things you fail to see are the internal development things they are doing. One of the common themes with VG at launch was that the development tools were virtually non existant and this was also a priority. I'm sure this situation has improved substantially in the past months.
So while you can focus in on all the things that are important to you, or that soe isn't investing as much as you like or that there are not hundreds of developers or that you don't like the new character models or countless other things. One thing that is clear, you have no interest in Vanguard.
So umbral and friends enjoy ranting and I will enjoy playing
I'll continue to feel optimistic about the things they are doing and the hard work the dev team is putting in. In any event I hope you are having as much fun trolling as I am playing the game.
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Ethion
Buddy key as been sent to you.
wow a thread with buddy keys? if theres one available for me id be jumping!
possible i can get one too? (i havent downloaded the game for nothing lol)
if someone has a buddy key I would be much appreciated, had been asking for a long time and no one sent me one, so, if anyone has one.... bmltavares@gmail.com
Buddy key has been sent.
Buddy key has been sent.
I would love to get a Buddy Key from someone, so I can try this game out.