Good, now I got you to admit you are trolling, you have no credibility on this subject. Next.
Do you think people will respect you or think you are cool with this kind of attitude? I feel like you need more off forum conversation time.
If you actually followed this thread and still want to back that guy up, go for it.
nobody is backing anyone up. i think it's the fact you trolls have been in this forum all day saying how horrible the game is, YET YOU ARE STILL IN THESE FORUMS AT 12:00 at night EST. still posting. i don't see how you cannot like the game you been hanging out in the WAR forums all day like a fanboy. are you lying to yourselves or something? and im immature. at least i like the game, i have a reason to be here.
hmm no response, no quotes, did you not realize you been flamming the game and it's 12:00 time to go to work tomorrow. keep it coming we can talk WAR all night, im off tommorow, lol
In fact, people that think this game will just be "meh" and nothing special are definitely louder right now. I'd have to say your posts are non sequitur at this point, so maybe you're the troll.
That's a blatant lie. Not even considering the preview weekend is still going and the servers are jammed full of players who aren't on the forums talking about how much fun they have had all weekend. You guys are by far the minority. Just because you kick and scream and enjoy trolling the forums and telling people why they can't possibly be having fun when they are doesn't mean you are the majority. It just means you are the most annoying.
Good, now I got you to admit you are trolling, you have no credibility on this subject. Next.
Do you think people will respect you or think you are cool with this kind of attitude? I feel like you need more off forum conversation time.
If you actually followed this thread and still want to back that guy up, go for it.
nobody is backing anyone up. i think it's the fact you trolls have been in this forum all day saying how horrible the game is, YET YOU ARE STILL IN THESE FORUMS AT 12:00 at night EST. still posting. i don't see how you cannot like the game you been hanging out in the WAR forums all day like a fanboy. are you lying to yourselves or something? and im immature. at least i like the game, i have a reason to be here.
You just want to imagine they are trolls. Just because someone doesn't agree that this game is "awesome" doesn't mean they are trolling. In fact, people that think this game will just be "meh" and nothing special are definitely louder right now. I'd have to say your posts are non sequitur at this point, so maybe you're the troll.
there it is. i never said in this post the game is awesome and if you dont agree.... i said this is NOT A REVIEW, it's a guy saying he is bored with a game after 5 months. isn't that normal? i get bored with games after five months too. doesnt mean the game sucks cause im done playing it. i thought you read all the post? or was that the other goblin. if you can honestly read what the OP said and agree that that is a review, then you never been to igb or gamespots website. a reviews talks about aspects of the game, ehat they liked and what the didnt like. this posster is way off.
In fact, people that think this game will just be "meh" and nothing special are definitely louder right now. I'd have to say your posts are non sequitur at this point, so maybe you're the troll.
That's a blatant lie. Not even considering the preview weekend is still going and the servers are jammed full of players who aren't on the forums talking about how much fun they have had all weekend. You guys are by far the minority. Just because you kick and scream and enjoy trolling the forums and telling people why they can't possibly be having fun when they are doesn't mean you are the majority. It just means you are the most annoying.
What I meant was that, out of the people voicing their opinions on these forums (that have actually played the fucking game), the vocal majority believe this game will be "okay."
You just want to imagine they are trolls. Just because someone doesn't agree that this game is "awesome" doesn't mean they are trolling. In fact, people that think this game will just be "meh" and nothing special are definitely louder right now. I'd have to say your posts are non sequitur at this point, so maybe you're the troll.
It will always be this way. Even if someone makes a well structured post like the OP, it will still come across to some as trolling.
In fact, people that think this game will just be "meh" and nothing special are definitely louder right now. I'd have to say your posts are non sequitur at this point, so maybe you're the troll.
That's a blatant lie. Not even considering the preview weekend is still going and the servers are jammed full of players who aren't on the forums talking about how much fun they have had all weekend. You guys are by far the minority. Just because you kick and scream and enjoy trolling the forums and telling people why they can't possibly be having fun when they are doesn't mean you are the majority. It just means you are the most annoying.
What I meant was that, out of the people voicing their opinions on these forums (that have actually played the fucking game), the vocal majority believe this game will be "okay."
What the hell is wrong with that!?!?! Do you want the next Messiah of MMOs? Go wait for Darkfall! People are having fun in an "okay" game. Just because you can't doesn't mean it's the game's fault.
WAR is WAR. They won't stray too far from the original concept (they do listen to people but there's a balance between saying "okay we'll change whatever you want" and "no, that'd destroy the integrity of the game. We can't do that.")
I've seen people say they have fun with one or more parts of WAR, so it's only an "okay" game. Who cares? If it only lasts you a few months, don't force yourself to play. Come back a little later when it's more polished and has more content, and, who knows, maybe some of the things you were complaining about will be fixed.
In fact, people that think this game will just be "meh" and nothing special are definitely louder right now. I'd have to say your posts are non sequitur at this point, so maybe you're the troll.
That's a blatant lie. Not even considering the preview weekend is still going and the servers are jammed full of players who aren't on the forums talking about how much fun they have had all weekend. You guys are by far the minority. Just because you kick and scream and enjoy trolling the forums and telling people why they can't possibly be having fun when they are doesn't mean you are the majority. It just means you are the most annoying.
What I meant was that, out of the people voicing their opinions on these forums (that have actually played the fucking game), the vocal majority believe this game will be "okay."
What I meant was that is a blatant lie. Anyone with a half a brain could dig around right now and figure that out for themselves.
Overview I've been apart of the WAR beta program since september 2007. Going in, I had very high expectations for warhammer online; I was truly convinced that WAR was going to change the face of the current generation of MMO's and begin the new era of things to come. That said, my intial reaction to the game back almost a year ago was very positive; the framework was solid and the game was genuinely fun to play. After having played the game for a solid 5 months, the new (or "shiney") factor had started to wear; gameplay began to feel very generic, and less immersive.
Why I lost Interest My experience playing MMO's is extensive; I began with EverQuest in 1999 and ever since, I've been extremely passionate about MMO's, having played nearly every semi-popular to popular MMO on the market. I've been around long enough to have seen MMO games change and evolve, and WAR just hasn't changed or evolved in it's gameplay mechanics; we've all already played this game, even if we haven't physically played it yet. This was a most disappointing realization to come to, especially since I had such high hopes for WAR. WAR offers a very similar experience to games we've all played before.
The game you've played before While all the hype says that systems like RvR, and Public Quests are so revolutionary, I'm here to tell you they absolutely are not. Once upon a time, RvR was revolutionary; the glory days of DAoC were a most memorable experience, but the RvR system in WAR while still quite similiar, primarily consists of glorfied instanced battlegrounds, or what they like to call "Scenerios". Open world PvP in WAR is about capturing keeps (and hopefully at some point city sieging), though more than often turns into a gate camping session, where opposing forces are at a stand still. Public Quests are static, and recycle themselves once the event ends. While I commend Mythic on some-what thinking outside of the box here, but it's not a big enough difference from your normal quest grind to classify it as "revolutionary" or "innovative". The idea behind the public quest system was to try and provide a breath of fresh air from your normal solo quest grind, and give players a reason to work together without tacking on forced grouping; this is only scratching the surface, and to truly be innovative in this respect requires a system that's much more dynamic. So, with those two systems out of the way, being that they've been hyped as being "so different", "revolutionary", or "Innovative", lets look at what we have left.
Questing in WAR Head over to quest NPC, accept quest, go kill 10 rats, and return for a 5 gold reward. This is what disappoints me the most; this is not fun, it's mind numbing and extremely generic. Questing in WAR is the primary character progression method, otherwise you're leveling up in battlegrounds or on the open pvp field. A non-social environment This is not a social game, it's a mutli-user single player experience. With it's emphasis on hack n' slash combat, here you're just another passenger on a train along for the ride (and watch out, because Chuck Norris might just be sitting beside you). Guilds are the extent of a social environment in WAR.
Conclusion If you're looking for a single-serving game with an emphasis on combat and PvP, then this game is definitely for you. If you're looking for a fresh new MMO experience, WAR is likely not going to deliver.
Please note: This is my opinion on the current state of WAR, and my reason for posting this here is to provide a basis for a constructive conversation. Please take flames elsewhere, if you disagree with what is posted here, please relay your thoughts in a constructive and non-aggressive manner.
, if you called that well structure, i feel sorry for you. for a well structured review go to gamespot or ign, you would be suprised how "well structured " a review can be.
"That said, my intial reaction to the game back almost a year ago was very positive; the framework was solid and the game was genuinely fun to play. After having played the game for a solid 5 months, the new (or "shiney") factor had started to wear; gameplay began to feel very generic, and less immersive."
Good, now I got you to admit you are trolling, you have no credibility on this subject. Next.
Do you think people will respect you or think you are cool with this kind of attitude? I feel like you need more off forum conversation time.
If you actually followed this thread and still want to back that guy up, go for it.
nobody is backing anyone up. i think it's the fact you trolls have been in this forum all day saying how horrible the game is, YET YOU ARE STILL IN THESE FORUMS AT 12:00 at night EST. still posting. i don't see how you cannot like the game you been hanging out in the WAR forums all day like a fanboy. are you lying to yourselves or something? and im immature. at least i like the game, i have a reason to be here.
You just want to imagine they are trolls. Just because someone doesn't agree that this game is "awesome" doesn't mean they are trolling. In fact, people that think this game will just be "meh" and nothing special are definitely louder right now. I'd have to say your posts are non sequitur at this point, so maybe you're the troll.
there it is. i never said in this post the game is awesome and if you dont agree.... i said this is NOT A REVIEW, it's a guy saying he is bored with a game after 5 months. isn't that normal? i get bored with games after five months too. doesnt mean the game sucks cause im done playing it. i thought you read all the post? or was that the other goblin. if you can honestly read what the OP said and agree that that is a review, then you never been to igb or gamespots website. a reviews talks about aspects of the game, ehat they liked and what the didnt like. this posster is way off.
That's great, you never said the game was awesome in this post, because my statement was only aimed within this thread. Sweet. Guess what? Regardless of what you've specifically said in this thread, my statement still holds true since it encompasses all threads and...
Originally posted by medafor
WAR is very good, there is nothing the game does bad at current state.
From: Your fucking thread
Eat it.
I SAID I DIDNT SAY THAT IN THIS THREAD. read my post before you go digging through my history of post. and i still didnt say it was awesome, LMFAO, nice try. stop man your playing yourself, i can talk , i like the game, you said you don't like it so you are....trolling.
, if you called that well structure, i feel sorry for you. for a well structured review go to gamespot or ign, you would be suprised how "well structured " a review can be. "That said, my intial reaction to the game back almost a year ago was very positive; the framework was solid and the game was genuinely fun to play. After having played the game for a solid 5 months, the new (or "shiney") factor had started to wear; gameplay began to feel very generic, and less immersive." yeah that well structured.
It's just a perspective from someone who is past the 'newness' phase and can give honest insight without any bias clouding his judgment.
Overview I've been apart of the WAR beta program since september 2007. Going in, I had very high expectations for warhammer online; I was truly convinced that WAR was going to change the face of the current generation of MMO's and begin the new era of things to come. That said, my intial reaction to the game back almost a year ago was very positive; the framework was solid and the game was genuinely fun to play. After having played the game for a solid 5 months, the new (or "shiney") factor had started to wear; gameplay began to feel very generic, and less immersive.
Why I lost Interest My experience playing MMO's is extensive; I began with EverQuest in 1999 and ever since, I've been extremely passionate about MMO's, having played nearly every semi-popular to popular MMO on the market. I've been around long enough to have seen MMO games change and evolve, and WAR just hasn't changed or evolved in it's gameplay mechanics; we've all already played this game, even if we haven't physically played it yet. This was a most disappointing realization to come to, especially since I had such high hopes for WAR. WAR offers a very similar experience to games we've all played before.
The game you've played before While all the hype says that systems like RvR, and Public Quests are so revolutionary, I'm here to tell you they absolutely are not. Once upon a time, RvR was revolutionary; the glory days of DAoC were a most memorable experience, but the RvR system in WAR while still quite similiar, primarily consists of glorfied instanced battlegrounds, or what they like to call "Scenerios". Open world PvP in WAR is about capturing keeps (and hopefully at some point city sieging), though more than often turns into a gate camping session, where opposing forces are at a stand still. Public Quests are static, and recycle themselves once the event ends. While I commend Mythic on some-what thinking outside of the box here, but it's not a big enough difference from your normal quest grind to classify it as "revolutionary" or "innovative". The idea behind the public quest system was to try and provide a breath of fresh air from your normal solo quest grind, and give players a reason to work together without tacking on forced grouping; this is only scratching the surface, and to truly be innovative in this respect requires a system that's much more dynamic. So, with those two systems out of the way, being that they've been hyped as being "so different", "revolutionary", or "Innovative", lets look at what we have left.
Questing in WAR Head over to quest NPC, accept quest, go kill 10 rats, and return for a 5 gold reward. This is what disappoints me the most; this is not fun, it's mind numbing and extremely generic. Questing in WAR is the primary character progression method, otherwise you're leveling up in battlegrounds or on the open pvp field. A non-social environment This is not a social game, it's a mutli-user single player experience. With it's emphasis on hack n' slash combat, here you're just another passenger on a train along for the ride (and watch out, because Chuck Norris might just be sitting beside you). Guilds are the extent of a social environment in WAR.
Conclusion If you're looking for a single-serving game with an emphasis on combat and PvP, then this game is definitely for you. If you're looking for a fresh new MMO experience, WAR is likely not going to deliver.
Please note: This is my opinion on the current state of WAR, and my reason for posting this here is to provide a basis for a constructive conversation. Please take flames elsewhere, if you disagree with what is posted here, please relay your thoughts in a constructive and non-aggressive manner.
Translation: Hello, I've been playing MMO's since 1999. I'm bored of them now. Bye.
Good, now I got you to admit you are trolling, you have no credibility on this subject. Next.
Do you think people will respect you or think you are cool with this kind of attitude? I feel like you need more off forum conversation time.
If you actually followed this thread and still want to back that guy up, go for it.
nobody is backing anyone up. i think it's the fact you trolls have been in this forum all day saying how horrible the game is, YET YOU ARE STILL IN THESE FORUMS AT 12:00 at night EST. still posting. i don't see how you cannot like the game you been hanging out in the WAR forums all day like a fanboy. are you lying to yourselves or something? and im immature. at least i like the game, i have a reason to be here.
You just want to imagine they are trolls. Just because someone doesn't agree that this game is "awesome" doesn't mean they are trolling. In fact, people that think this game will just be "meh" and nothing special are definitely louder right now. I'd have to say your posts are non sequitur at this point, so maybe you're the troll.
there it is. i never said in this post the game is awesome and if you dont agree.... i said this is NOT A REVIEW, it's a guy saying he is bored with a game after 5 months. isn't that normal? i get bored with games after five months too. doesnt mean the game sucks cause im done playing it. i thought you read all the post? or was that the other goblin. if you can honestly read what the OP said and agree that that is a review, then you never been to igb or gamespots website. a reviews talks about aspects of the game, ehat they liked and what the didnt like. this posster is way off.
That's great, you never said the game was awesome in this post, because my statement was only aimed within this thread. Sweet. Guess what? Regardless of what you've specifically said in this thread, my statement still holds true since it encompasses all threads and...
Originally posted by medafor
WAR is very good, there is nothing the game does bad at current state.
From: Your fucking thread
Eat it.
I SAID I DIDNT SAY THAT IN THIS THREAD. read my post before you go digging through my history of post. and i still didnt say it was awesome, LMFAO, nice try. stop man your playing yourself, i can talk , i like the game, you said you don't like it so you are....trolling.
Sigh, your posts are not worth reading.
Here's a carrot for you to chase: Find where I said I didn't like the game. Go ahead.
ill be the better man and stop this ranting . "sigh, your post are not worth reading", then stop reading them for crying out loud. im done.
You're just bored of MMO's in general. Your post is worthless based on an assumption! I'm going to reiterate the same thing everyone else is because I'm in denial!
I think I figured out why all modern MMO's are so similar. Normal people just aren't creative enough to come up with their own ideas and, sadly, normal people probably design MMO's.
The new bandwagon: You're just bored of MMO's in general. Your post is worthless based on an assumption! I'm going to reiterate the same thing everyone else is because I'm in denial! I think I figured out why all modern MMO's are so similar. Normal people just aren't creative enough to come up with their own ideas and, sadly, normal people probably design MMO's.
Wtf do you expect Warhammer, an MMORPG, to be!? No-one gives a shit about someone who is basically saying "this is an MMO", what's the point?
Most people are here because they're interested in the PvP Warhammer has to offer, I know it's the reason I'm here! Do I expect this game to be anything else but an MMO? No. Only a moron would think so.
I want to play Warhammer because I'm bored of the PvP WoW has to offer, I'm bored of playing AV, WSG, EotS and AB over and over again. I'm sure down the line I'll get bored of what Warhammer has to offer, but at least for now they're offering something new - I want RvR!
The OP claimed this to be a review of Warhammer, which it isn't - by far.
Oh, and he also mentions the social part of the game? Yes, let's stop killing each for a few minutes so we can have a nice conversation about current events. What does he want, a tea party?
The new bandwagon: You're just bored of MMO's in general. Your post is worthless based on an assumption! I'm going to reiterate the same thing everyone else is because I'm in denial! I think I figured out why all modern MMO's are so similar. Normal people just aren't creative enough to come up with their own ideas and, sadly, normal people probably design MMO's.
Wtf do you expect Warhammer, an MMORPG, to be!? No-one gives a shit about someone who is basically saying "this is an MMO", what's the point?
Most people are here because they're interested in the PvP Warhammer has to offer, I know it's the reason I'm here! Do I expect this game to be anything else but an MMO? No. Only a moron would think so.
I want to play Warhammer because I'm bored of the PvP WoW has to offer, I'm bored of playing AV, WSG, EotS and AB over and over again. I'm sure down the line I'll get bored of what Warhammer has to offer, but at least for now they're offering something new - I want RvR!
The OP claimed this to be a review of Warhammer, which it isn't - by far.
Oh, and he also mentions the social part of the game? Yes, let's stop killing each for a few minutes so we can have a nice conversation about current events. What does he want, a tea party?
The new bandwagon: You're just bored of MMO's in general. Your post is worthless based on an assumption! I'm going to reiterate the same thing everyone else is because I'm in denial! I think I figured out why all modern MMO's are so similar. Normal people just aren't creative enough to come up with their own ideas and, sadly, normal people probably design MMO's.
Wtf do you expect Warhammer, an MMORPG, to be!? No-one gives a shit about someone who is basically saying "this is an MMO", what's the point?
Most people are here because they're interested in the PvP Warhammer has to offer, I know it's the reason I'm here! Do I expect this game to be anything else but an MMO? No. Only a moron would think so.
I want to play Warhammer because I'm bored of the PvP WoW has to offer, I'm bored of playing AB, WSG, EotS and AB over and over again. I'm sure down the line I'll get bored of what Warhammer has to offer, but at least for now they're offering something new - I want RvR!
The OP claimed this to be a review of Warhammer, which it isn't - by far.
Just so we're clear:
-RvR is not "new"
-The original post is a review, even if you don't want to admit it
Just out of curiosity, what are you looking forward to besides the RvR?
Well at least you got a good 5 months out of it before it got old to you. Public quests are very innovative and are a very socialized factor to the gameplay. If nothing else it gets you involved with other players. Also I haven't spent one minute RvR'ing in the game without having a small organized group and we worked together, had fun, and dominated the playing field and objectives. It was an extremely social experience. I found that those that wanted a 'single serving game' experience could have it, but were easily beaten in RvR. It is good for a game to offer this, but there are social experiences everywhere if you look for them. There has never been an MMO that is this much fun and action packed from the start. There is not another MMO where I can roll up 4 characters in the course of 20 hours and be having an insanely fun time with all 4 of them. Normally I would have to invest at least 50 hours per character if not hundreds to even get close to this level of entertainment. (My opinion) I agree there is a lot in common with other MMO's but that is how the World works. Things migrate or change slowly they don't just pop up out of the blue with some new and innovative design. It's a shame because those that do are truly revolutionary. I agree that WAR isn't revolutionary but it doesn't have to be to be fun. I can't wait for a revolutionary MMO to come out with a huge budget, low bugs, and a honest dev team but that is the type of thing that happens once or twice in a decade. We have to work with what we have. Most MMO players life span in a game is less than 5 months so I would say that this game does something right if it kept you interested for that long. I wonder if you would have started your 5 months at release instead of in a beta build how long you would have lasted. Anyways, thanks for the review.
I like to think of the social aspect to WAR as being very single-serving. You communicate with your group/party just enough to succeed in whatever it is you're all trying to accomplish.
Like in other games, I'm sure we've all grouped with other players to do an instance, but how often do you end up making a personal friend through that experience? In my case, not very often; they're just another body to deal and take damage.
I think the core problem lies in the lack of emotional attachment; when a game is too easy, or not challenging enough there is very little critical thinking required in whatever the group/party/team is trying to accomplish. Thus, players rarely end up bonding with one another, because it's just another task that they will likely do again; the special factor is gone.
I will never fault a game for this. When it comes to social aspect of MMO's its purly on the player base. Its not the games fault the average gamer wants to "Get in, get what is good for ME, and get out". People used to be willing to go out of there way to help a stranger. Now you only find that in guilds or tight groups of friends. Thats a social problem that isnt a problem of the game but the gamers themself.
Well at least you got a good 5 months out of it before it got old to you. Public quests are very innovative and are a very socialized factor to the gameplay. If nothing else it gets you involved with other players. Also I haven't spent one minute RvR'ing in the game without having a small organized group and we worked together, had fun, and dominated the playing field and objectives. It was an extremely social experience. I found that those that wanted a 'single serving game' experience could have it, but were easily beaten in RvR. It is good for a game to offer this, but there are social experiences everywhere if you look for them. There has never been an MMO that is this much fun and action packed from the start. There is not another MMO where I can roll up 4 characters in the course of 20 hours and be having an insanely fun time with all 4 of them. Normally I would have to invest at least 50 hours per character if not hundreds to even get close to this level of entertainment. (My opinion) I agree there is a lot in common with other MMO's but that is how the World works. Things migrate or change slowly they don't just pop up out of the blue with some new and innovative design. It's a shame because those that do are truly revolutionary. I agree that WAR isn't revolutionary but it doesn't have to be to be fun. I can't wait for a revolutionary MMO to come out with a huge budget, low bugs, and a honest dev team but that is the type of thing that happens once or twice in a decade. We have to work with what we have. Most MMO players life span in a game is less than 5 months so I would say that this game does something right if it kept you interested for that long. I wonder if you would have started your 5 months at release instead of in a beta build how long you would have lasted. Anyways, thanks for the review.
I like to think of the social aspect to WAR as being very single-serving. You communicate with your group/party just enough to succeed in whatever it is you're all trying to accomplish.
Like in other games, I'm sure we've all grouped with other players to do an instance, but how often do you end up making a personal friend through that experience? In my case, not very often; they're just another body to deal and take damage.
I think the core problem lies in the lack of emotional attachment; when a game is too easy, or not challenging enough there is very little critical thinking required in whatever the group/party/team is trying to accomplish. Thus, players rarely end up bonding with one another, because it's just another task that they will likely do again; the special factor is gone.
I will never fault a game for this. When it comes to social aspect of MMO's its purly on the player base. Its not the games fault the average gamer wants to "Get in, get what is good for ME, and get out". People used to be willing to go out of there way to help a stranger. Now you only find that in guilds or tight groups of friends. Thats a social problem that isnt a problem of the game but the gamers themself.
The DAoC community is still pretty good and willing to help strangers out... From what I've seen last time I checked - a month ago. Hoping that sense of comeradery remains in the game. And that's one of the things that I'm looking forward to if it's actually in the game.
The new bandwagon: You're just bored of MMO's in general. Your post is worthless based on an assumption! I'm going to reiterate the same thing everyone else is because I'm in denial! I think I figured out why all modern MMO's are so similar. Normal people just aren't creative enough to come up with their own ideas and, sadly, normal people probably design MMO's.
Wtf do you expect Warhammer, an MMORPG, to be!? No-one gives a shit about someone who is basically saying "this is an MMO", what's the point?
Most people are here because they're interested in the PvP Warhammer has to offer, I know it's the reason I'm here! Do I expect this game to be anything else but an MMO? No. Only a moron would think so.
I want to play Warhammer because I'm bored of the PvP WoW has to offer, I'm bored of playing AB, WSG, EotS and AB over and over again. I'm sure down the line I'll get bored of what Warhammer has to offer, but at least for now they're offering something new - I want RvR!
The OP claimed this to be a review of Warhammer, which it isn't - by far.
Just so we're clear:
-RvR is not "new"
-The original post is a review, even if you don't want to admit it
Just out of curiosity, what are you looking forward to besides the RvR?
Other than the RvR? I know you asked him but I will tell you what I'm interested in since your just trolling and will argue with anyone that posts anything good about WAR.
I'm looking forward to the ToK. Its not exactly new, but adds alot to this type of system that hasnt been done before.
I'm looking forward to the various PQ's (lets hope the loot system is changed). Argue all you want but these are new and innovative and it wouldnt suprise me if they become a norm for new MMO's.
I'm looking forward to the living guilds and cities. While not 100% new, there are some inovative aspects to them.
I'm looking forward to a fresh IP. Warhammer is by no means new, but its a frew new IP to the MMO market.
I'm looking forward to watching the game grow. As much as trolls like you would love to see an MMO fail personally I like seeing where a game starts at launch and where it goes.
And most of all I'm looking forward to the game going live, so I can get ingame and start working on a character and not have time to go to boards and see all these pathetic trolls try to be smart and fail horribly at it.
The DAoC community is still pretty good and willing to help strangers out... From what I've seen last time I checked - a month ago. Hoping that sense of comeradery remains in the game. And that's one of the things that I'm looking forward to if it's actually in the game.
I hope it is to. All I was saying is its not a games fault for antisocial behavior. Its the people themself. Yes a game can miss the boat on "RP" aspects but the OP wasnt talking RP he was talking social. The OP brings up things like the game being "easy" and just grouping up to get a piece of armor ect. and not forming a friendship with thoes he grouped with. Thats a result of society getting more and more all about the "me". It has nothing to do with how hard/easy a game is or what social "tools" the game offers.
While I realize noone around here cares, as so many seem completely sucked in by the WAR hype, but after playing in the Closed Beta for a few months, I have to agree with every point the OP made.
It's not a bad game. It;s a fun game. What is in it is reasonably polished, and functions pretty much as advertised. It certainly does not have any of the issues that other games such as AoC and Vanguard had. And it is fun. At least for a reasonable period of time.
But it feels like a very generic game. I tend to describe it as the illegitimate bastard child of WoW and DAoC. WoW's UI , gameplay and to some degree PvE in conjunction with DAoC's RvR.
Now this might seem like a great mix. And someday it might be that. But currently It seems to be very very conservatively designed. The classes are kind of bland and derivative. Nothing that we have never seen before.
The PvE while there, does not have alot of replay value. After you level one races class you have no desire to do it again.Once you run through it 6x (each race has their own PvE experience) you will not want to do it again... ever. Frankly if PvE is your thing, WoW and LoTRo both do it better and use lots of innovative tricks. granted WoWs are the innovative tricks from a few years back that eceryone else is attampting to build on and improve, but LoTRo also has some really neat ideas, They use instancing in some amazing ways. Rather than just doing dungeons, or using them for crowd control, they subtley use them to tell and advance their story. In part the LoTRo outside instances can let you live through and participate in events that you never could in the past. But I digress. Now Matter how you cut it WoW or LoTRo have better PvE.
The RVR - OK once again RvR can be great fun. You can group up and have at it in Battlegrounds... oops Im sorry Scenarios. And keep queueing and queueing to earn Honor... im sorry again RP's in order to buy personal rep boosts that you use to buy better buffs and faction gear. Others have described WAR's RvR far better then I can, But I will add this provisio. DAoC's still the master at RvR. WAR is DAoC RvR done Lite.
Once again this is opinion, from someone who has actually played the game.
Final grumble which most will ignore. Graphics, Art Model, designs. The world looks decent, if having a confining feel to it. The Graphics and character custemization is real slim, much less then you would want in a Social aspect game. The grphics options are intentionaly so low to insure that everybody looks the same, thereby reducing server load in large rvr groups. And even beyond, that the character models have a very dead feel to them. Similar to, but even moreso then DAoC's character models.
We will not speak of the horrible mess of spell effects graphics, they would appear to be simply DAoC graphics, But not the flashy pretty Albion ones.
So, while the thread was being derailed, I think a lot of you missed several key points.
#1 -- I never once claimed that WAR was a bad game.
#2 -- The title is called "WAR review; a player's perspective", meaning my personal perspective of Warhammer online. ie: my personal feelings on the game's presentation.
#3 -- I never once said that the game wasn't fun, on the contrary in fact "That said, my intial reaction to the game back almost a year ago was very positive; the framework was solid and the game was genuinely fun to play."
What I was trying to articulate here guys is the fact that WAR does not bring anything new to the table, which is fine for people who want a similar experience to that of WoW, or [insert clone]. There is nothing wrong with this statement, there is a fundamental reason why WoW changed the way MMO's were played, of which I'm sure we're all aware of.
My disappointment of WAR comes from my personal yearning for something new and different; I don't want to experience the same things from a game I played prior when I pick up a new game, in fact the reasoning behind purchasing a "new" game is to find a new experience, is it not?
--
"Translation: Hello, I've been playing MMO's since 1999. I'm bored of them now. Bye.
P.S. No-one would be my friend in Warhammer."
"Oh, and he also mentions the social part of the game? Yes, let's stop killing each for a few minutes so we can have a nice conversation about current events. What does he want, a tea party?"
Could you be anymore oblivious and ignorant? You of all people in this thread should understand what a "Massively Multiplayer Online Game" is, coming from a background in EVE Online. If you've forgotten, maybe you should click the link in your signature and review what the EVE Online FAQ says. To be more precise how about you review sections: 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, and 1.11.
No one's asking for a tea party to discuss current events, or begging for one's friendship. MMO's are about community, an evolving society, and player-to-player interaction, otherwise it's nothing more than Counterstrike, or Team Fortress 2 where you all look the same and the entire premise of the game is centered around combat -- oh wait, that sounds awfully familiar, doesn't it?
You know damn well what I meant iCeh, and don't even try to play stupid.
Comments
Do you think people will respect you or think you are cool with this kind of attitude? I feel like you need more off forum conversation time.
If you actually followed this thread and still want to back that guy up, go for it.
nobody is backing anyone up. i think it's the fact you trolls have been in this forum all day saying how horrible the game is, YET YOU ARE STILL IN THESE FORUMS AT 12:00 at night EST. still posting. i don't see how you cannot like the game you been hanging out in the WAR forums all day like a fanboy. are you lying to yourselves or something? and im immature. at least i like the game, i have a reason to be here.
hmm no response, no quotes, did you not realize you been flamming the game and it's 12:00 time to go to work tomorrow. keep it coming we can talk WAR all night, im off tommorow, lol
That's a blatant lie. Not even considering the preview weekend is still going and the servers are jammed full of players who aren't on the forums talking about how much fun they have had all weekend. You guys are by far the minority. Just because you kick and scream and enjoy trolling the forums and telling people why they can't possibly be having fun when they are doesn't mean you are the majority. It just means you are the most annoying.
Do you think people will respect you or think you are cool with this kind of attitude? I feel like you need more off forum conversation time.
If you actually followed this thread and still want to back that guy up, go for it.
nobody is backing anyone up. i think it's the fact you trolls have been in this forum all day saying how horrible the game is, YET YOU ARE STILL IN THESE FORUMS AT 12:00 at night EST. still posting. i don't see how you cannot like the game you been hanging out in the WAR forums all day like a fanboy. are you lying to yourselves or something? and im immature. at least i like the game, i have a reason to be here.
You just want to imagine they are trolls. Just because someone doesn't agree that this game is "awesome" doesn't mean they are trolling. In fact, people that think this game will just be "meh" and nothing special are definitely louder right now. I'd have to say your posts are non sequitur at this point, so maybe you're the troll.
there it is. i never said in this post the game is awesome and if you dont agree.... i said this is NOT A REVIEW, it's a guy saying he is bored with a game after 5 months. isn't that normal? i get bored with games after five months too. doesnt mean the game sucks cause im done playing it. i thought you read all the post? or was that the other goblin. if you can honestly read what the OP said and agree that that is a review, then you never been to igb or gamespots website. a reviews talks about aspects of the game, ehat they liked and what the didnt like. this posster is way off.
That's a blatant lie. Not even considering the preview weekend is still going and the servers are jammed full of players who aren't on the forums talking about how much fun they have had all weekend. You guys are by far the minority. Just because you kick and scream and enjoy trolling the forums and telling people why they can't possibly be having fun when they are doesn't mean you are the majority. It just means you are the most annoying.
What I meant was that, out of the people voicing their opinions on these forums (that have actually played the fucking game), the vocal majority believe this game will be "okay."
damn conan really screwed it up for every mmo coming out. lol. the expectation level has soared since. lmfao. lets just blame it on funcom.
It will always be this way. Even if someone makes a well structured post like the OP, it will still come across to some as trolling.
That's a blatant lie. Not even considering the preview weekend is still going and the servers are jammed full of players who aren't on the forums talking about how much fun they have had all weekend. You guys are by far the minority. Just because you kick and scream and enjoy trolling the forums and telling people why they can't possibly be having fun when they are doesn't mean you are the majority. It just means you are the most annoying.
What I meant was that, out of the people voicing their opinions on these forums (that have actually played the fucking game), the vocal majority believe this game will be "okay."
What the hell is wrong with that!?!?! Do you want the next Messiah of MMOs? Go wait for Darkfall! People are having fun in an "okay" game. Just because you can't doesn't mean it's the game's fault.
WAR is WAR. They won't stray too far from the original concept (they do listen to people but there's a balance between saying "okay we'll change whatever you want" and "no, that'd destroy the integrity of the game. We can't do that.")
I've seen people say they have fun with one or more parts of WAR, so it's only an "okay" game. Who cares? If it only lasts you a few months, don't force yourself to play. Come back a little later when it's more polished and has more content, and, who knows, maybe some of the things you were complaining about will be fixed.
That's a blatant lie. Not even considering the preview weekend is still going and the servers are jammed full of players who aren't on the forums talking about how much fun they have had all weekend. You guys are by far the minority. Just because you kick and scream and enjoy trolling the forums and telling people why they can't possibly be having fun when they are doesn't mean you are the majority. It just means you are the most annoying.
What I meant was that, out of the people voicing their opinions on these forums (that have actually played the fucking game), the vocal majority believe this game will be "okay."
What I meant was that is a blatant lie. Anyone with a half a brain could dig around right now and figure that out for themselves.
"That said, my intial reaction to the game back almost a year ago was very positive; the framework was solid and the game was genuinely fun to play. After having played the game for a solid 5 months, the new (or "shiney") factor had started to wear; gameplay began to feel very generic, and less immersive."
yeah thats very well structured.
Do you think people will respect you or think you are cool with this kind of attitude? I feel like you need more off forum conversation time.
If you actually followed this thread and still want to back that guy up, go for it.
nobody is backing anyone up. i think it's the fact you trolls have been in this forum all day saying how horrible the game is, YET YOU ARE STILL IN THESE FORUMS AT 12:00 at night EST. still posting. i don't see how you cannot like the game you been hanging out in the WAR forums all day like a fanboy. are you lying to yourselves or something? and im immature. at least i like the game, i have a reason to be here.
You just want to imagine they are trolls. Just because someone doesn't agree that this game is "awesome" doesn't mean they are trolling. In fact, people that think this game will just be "meh" and nothing special are definitely louder right now. I'd have to say your posts are non sequitur at this point, so maybe you're the troll.
there it is. i never said in this post the game is awesome and if you dont agree.... i said this is NOT A REVIEW, it's a guy saying he is bored with a game after 5 months. isn't that normal? i get bored with games after five months too. doesnt mean the game sucks cause im done playing it. i thought you read all the post? or was that the other goblin. if you can honestly read what the OP said and agree that that is a review, then you never been to igb or gamespots website. a reviews talks about aspects of the game, ehat they liked and what the didnt like. this posster is way off.
That's great, you never said the game was awesome in this post, because my statement was only aimed within this thread. Sweet. Guess what? Regardless of what you've specifically said in this thread, my statement still holds true since it encompasses all threads and...
From: Your fucking thread
Eat it.
I SAID I DIDNT SAY THAT IN THIS THREAD. read my post before you go digging through my history of post. and i still didnt say it was awesome, LMFAO, nice try. stop man your playing yourself, i can talk , i like the game, you said you don't like it so you are....trolling.
It's just a perspective from someone who is past the 'newness' phase and can give honest insight without any bias clouding his judgment.
Translation: Hello, I've been playing MMO's since 1999. I'm bored of them now. Bye.
P.S. No-one would be my friend in Warhammer.
-iCeh
Do you think people will respect you or think you are cool with this kind of attitude? I feel like you need more off forum conversation time.
If you actually followed this thread and still want to back that guy up, go for it.
nobody is backing anyone up. i think it's the fact you trolls have been in this forum all day saying how horrible the game is, YET YOU ARE STILL IN THESE FORUMS AT 12:00 at night EST. still posting. i don't see how you cannot like the game you been hanging out in the WAR forums all day like a fanboy. are you lying to yourselves or something? and im immature. at least i like the game, i have a reason to be here.
You just want to imagine they are trolls. Just because someone doesn't agree that this game is "awesome" doesn't mean they are trolling. In fact, people that think this game will just be "meh" and nothing special are definitely louder right now. I'd have to say your posts are non sequitur at this point, so maybe you're the troll.
there it is. i never said in this post the game is awesome and if you dont agree.... i said this is NOT A REVIEW, it's a guy saying he is bored with a game after 5 months. isn't that normal? i get bored with games after five months too. doesnt mean the game sucks cause im done playing it. i thought you read all the post? or was that the other goblin. if you can honestly read what the OP said and agree that that is a review, then you never been to igb or gamespots website. a reviews talks about aspects of the game, ehat they liked and what the didnt like. this posster is way off.
That's great, you never said the game was awesome in this post, because my statement was only aimed within this thread. Sweet. Guess what? Regardless of what you've specifically said in this thread, my statement still holds true since it encompasses all threads and...
From: Your fucking thread
Eat it.
I SAID I DIDNT SAY THAT IN THIS THREAD. read my post before you go digging through my history of post. and i still didnt say it was awesome, LMFAO, nice try. stop man your playing yourself, i can talk , i like the game, you said you don't like it so you are....trolling.
Sigh, your posts are not worth reading.
Here's a carrot for you to chase: Find where I said I didn't like the game. Go ahead.
ill be the better man and stop this ranting . "sigh, your post are not worth reading", then stop reading them for crying out loud. im done.
The new bandwagon:
You're just bored of MMO's in general. Your post is worthless based on an assumption! I'm going to reiterate the same thing everyone else is because I'm in denial!
I think I figured out why all modern MMO's are so similar. Normal people just aren't creative enough to come up with their own ideas and, sadly, normal people probably design MMO's.
Wtf do you expect Warhammer, an MMORPG, to be!? No-one gives a shit about someone who is basically saying "this is an MMO", what's the point?
Most people are here because they're interested in the PvP Warhammer has to offer, I know it's the reason I'm here! Do I expect this game to be anything else but an MMO? No. Only a moron would think so.
I want to play Warhammer because I'm bored of the PvP WoW has to offer, I'm bored of playing AV, WSG, EotS and AB over and over again. I'm sure down the line I'll get bored of what Warhammer has to offer, but at least for now they're offering something new - I want RvR!
The OP claimed this to be a review of Warhammer, which it isn't - by far.
Oh, and he also mentions the social part of the game? Yes, let's stop killing each for a few minutes so we can have a nice conversation about current events. What does he want, a tea party?
-iCeh
Wtf do you expect Warhammer, an MMORPG, to be!? No-one gives a shit about someone who is basically saying "this is an MMO", what's the point?
Most people are here because they're interested in the PvP Warhammer has to offer, I know it's the reason I'm here! Do I expect this game to be anything else but an MMO? No. Only a moron would think so.
I want to play Warhammer because I'm bored of the PvP WoW has to offer, I'm bored of playing AV, WSG, EotS and AB over and over again. I'm sure down the line I'll get bored of what Warhammer has to offer, but at least for now they're offering something new - I want RvR!
The OP claimed this to be a review of Warhammer, which it isn't - by far.
Oh, and he also mentions the social part of the game? Yes, let's stop killing each for a few minutes so we can have a nice conversation about current events. What does he want, a tea party?
Thank You!!!!!!!!!
Wtf do you expect Warhammer, an MMORPG, to be!? No-one gives a shit about someone who is basically saying "this is an MMO", what's the point?
Most people are here because they're interested in the PvP Warhammer has to offer, I know it's the reason I'm here! Do I expect this game to be anything else but an MMO? No. Only a moron would think so.
I want to play Warhammer because I'm bored of the PvP WoW has to offer, I'm bored of playing AB, WSG, EotS and AB over and over again. I'm sure down the line I'll get bored of what Warhammer has to offer, but at least for now they're offering something new - I want RvR!
The OP claimed this to be a review of Warhammer, which it isn't - by far.
Just so we're clear:
-RvR is not "new"
-The original post is a review, even if you don't want to admit it
Just out of curiosity, what are you looking forward to besides the RvR?
I like to think of the social aspect to WAR as being very single-serving. You communicate with your group/party just enough to succeed in whatever it is you're all trying to accomplish.
Like in other games, I'm sure we've all grouped with other players to do an instance, but how often do you end up making a personal friend through that experience? In my case, not very often; they're just another body to deal and take damage.
I think the core problem lies in the lack of emotional attachment; when a game is too easy, or not challenging enough there is very little critical thinking required in whatever the group/party/team is trying to accomplish. Thus, players rarely end up bonding with one another, because it's just another task that they will likely do again; the special factor is gone.
I will never fault a game for this. When it comes to social aspect of MMO's its purly on the player base. Its not the games fault the average gamer wants to "Get in, get what is good for ME, and get out". People used to be willing to go out of there way to help a stranger. Now you only find that in guilds or tight groups of friends. Thats a social problem that isnt a problem of the game but the gamers themself.
I like to think of the social aspect to WAR as being very single-serving. You communicate with your group/party just enough to succeed in whatever it is you're all trying to accomplish.
Like in other games, I'm sure we've all grouped with other players to do an instance, but how often do you end up making a personal friend through that experience? In my case, not very often; they're just another body to deal and take damage.
I think the core problem lies in the lack of emotional attachment; when a game is too easy, or not challenging enough there is very little critical thinking required in whatever the group/party/team is trying to accomplish. Thus, players rarely end up bonding with one another, because it's just another task that they will likely do again; the special factor is gone.
I will never fault a game for this. When it comes to social aspect of MMO's its purly on the player base. Its not the games fault the average gamer wants to "Get in, get what is good for ME, and get out". People used to be willing to go out of there way to help a stranger. Now you only find that in guilds or tight groups of friends. Thats a social problem that isnt a problem of the game but the gamers themself.
The DAoC community is still pretty good and willing to help strangers out... From what I've seen last time I checked - a month ago. Hoping that sense of comeradery remains in the game. And that's one of the things that I'm looking forward to if it's actually in the game.
Wtf do you expect Warhammer, an MMORPG, to be!? No-one gives a shit about someone who is basically saying "this is an MMO", what's the point?
Most people are here because they're interested in the PvP Warhammer has to offer, I know it's the reason I'm here! Do I expect this game to be anything else but an MMO? No. Only a moron would think so.
I want to play Warhammer because I'm bored of the PvP WoW has to offer, I'm bored of playing AB, WSG, EotS and AB over and over again. I'm sure down the line I'll get bored of what Warhammer has to offer, but at least for now they're offering something new - I want RvR!
The OP claimed this to be a review of Warhammer, which it isn't - by far.
Just so we're clear:
-RvR is not "new"
-The original post is a review, even if you don't want to admit it
Just out of curiosity, what are you looking forward to besides the RvR?
Other than the RvR? I know you asked him but I will tell you what I'm interested in since your just trolling and will argue with anyone that posts anything good about WAR.
I'm looking forward to the ToK. Its not exactly new, but adds alot to this type of system that hasnt been done before.
I'm looking forward to the various PQ's (lets hope the loot system is changed). Argue all you want but these are new and innovative and it wouldnt suprise me if they become a norm for new MMO's.
I'm looking forward to the living guilds and cities. While not 100% new, there are some inovative aspects to them.
I'm looking forward to a fresh IP. Warhammer is by no means new, but its a frew new IP to the MMO market.
I'm looking forward to watching the game grow. As much as trolls like you would love to see an MMO fail personally I like seeing where a game starts at launch and where it goes.
And most of all I'm looking forward to the game going live, so I can get ingame and start working on a character and not have time to go to boards and see all these pathetic trolls try to be smart and fail horribly at it.
I hope it is to. All I was saying is its not a games fault for antisocial behavior. Its the people themself. Yes a game can miss the boat on "RP" aspects but the OP wasnt talking RP he was talking social. The OP brings up things like the game being "easy" and just grouping up to get a piece of armor ect. and not forming a friendship with thoes he grouped with. Thats a result of society getting more and more all about the "me". It has nothing to do with how hard/easy a game is or what social "tools" the game offers.
While I realize noone around here cares, as so many seem completely sucked in by the WAR hype, but after playing in the Closed Beta for a few months, I have to agree with every point the OP made.
It's not a bad game. It;s a fun game. What is in it is reasonably polished, and functions pretty much as advertised. It certainly does not have any of the issues that other games such as AoC and Vanguard had. And it is fun. At least for a reasonable period of time.
But it feels like a very generic game. I tend to describe it as the illegitimate bastard child of WoW and DAoC. WoW's UI , gameplay and to some degree PvE in conjunction with DAoC's RvR.
Now this might seem like a great mix. And someday it might be that. But currently It seems to be very very conservatively designed. The classes are kind of bland and derivative. Nothing that we have never seen before.
The PvE while there, does not have alot of replay value. After you level one races class you have no desire to do it again.Once you run through it 6x (each race has their own PvE experience) you will not want to do it again... ever. Frankly if PvE is your thing, WoW and LoTRo both do it better and use lots of innovative tricks. granted WoWs are the innovative tricks from a few years back that eceryone else is attampting to build on and improve, but LoTRo also has some really neat ideas, They use instancing in some amazing ways. Rather than just doing dungeons, or using them for crowd control, they subtley use them to tell and advance their story. In part the LoTRo outside instances can let you live through and participate in events that you never could in the past. But I digress. Now Matter how you cut it WoW or LoTRo have better PvE.
The RVR - OK once again RvR can be great fun. You can group up and have at it in Battlegrounds... oops Im sorry Scenarios. And keep queueing and queueing to earn Honor... im sorry again RP's in order to buy personal rep boosts that you use to buy better buffs and faction gear. Others have described WAR's RvR far better then I can, But I will add this provisio. DAoC's still the master at RvR. WAR is DAoC RvR done Lite.
Once again this is opinion, from someone who has actually played the game.
Final grumble which most will ignore. Graphics, Art Model, designs. The world looks decent, if having a confining feel to it. The Graphics and character custemization is real slim, much less then you would want in a Social aspect game. The grphics options are intentionaly so low to insure that everybody looks the same, thereby reducing server load in large rvr groups. And even beyond, that the character models have a very dead feel to them. Similar to, but even moreso then DAoC's character models.
We will not speak of the horrible mess of spell effects graphics, they would appear to be simply DAoC graphics, But not the flashy pretty Albion ones.
nm - wrong topic, please delete
So, while the thread was being derailed, I think a lot of you missed several key points.
#1 -- I never once claimed that WAR was a bad game.
#2 -- The title is called "WAR review; a player's perspective", meaning my personal perspective of Warhammer online. ie: my personal feelings on the game's presentation.
#3 -- I never once said that the game wasn't fun, on the contrary in fact "That said, my intial reaction to the game back almost a year ago was very positive; the framework was solid and the game was genuinely fun to play."
What I was trying to articulate here guys is the fact that WAR does not bring anything new to the table, which is fine for people who want a similar experience to that of WoW, or [insert clone]. There is nothing wrong with this statement, there is a fundamental reason why WoW changed the way MMO's were played, of which I'm sure we're all aware of.
My disappointment of WAR comes from my personal yearning for something new and different; I don't want to experience the same things from a game I played prior when I pick up a new game, in fact the reasoning behind purchasing a "new" game is to find a new experience, is it not?
--
"Translation: Hello, I've been playing MMO's since 1999. I'm bored of them now. Bye.
P.S. No-one would be my friend in Warhammer."
"Oh, and he also mentions the social part of the game? Yes, let's stop killing each for a few minutes so we can have a nice conversation about current events. What does he want, a tea party?"
Could you be anymore oblivious and ignorant? You of all people in this thread should understand what a "Massively Multiplayer Online Game" is, coming from a background in EVE Online. If you've forgotten, maybe you should click the link in your signature and review what the EVE Online FAQ says. To be more precise how about you review sections: 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, and 1.11.
No one's asking for a tea party to discuss current events, or begging for one's friendship. MMO's are about community, an evolving society, and player-to-player interaction, otherwise it's nothing more than Counterstrike, or Team Fortress 2 where you all look the same and the entire premise of the game is centered around combat -- oh wait, that sounds awfully familiar, doesn't it?
You know damn well what I meant iCeh, and don't even try to play stupid.
obviously anyone who says anything bad about WAR is a troll because the game is perfect in every way.
and the people who defend the game by insulting the OP are perfectly reasonable, and couldn't be considered as bad or as worse than trolls...