The other option is to create a huge game world with lots of empty space in between just to appease those who want it to be seamless (who would then be complaining that it takes 4 hours of walking through empty/unfinished lands to get to the other pairings. 2) Game Mechanics. The zones are formatted in a way to create pairings, the ability to take control of a zone, and server performance. All for the sake of making a RvR game fair and stable. I'm sure they would have wanted to create a seamless world if possible, but it wasn't a priority over say, something minor like the entire game mechanics.
Just a thought, WAR has mounts. Thus open space between zones to travel along wouldnt be so bad. The other note comes from travel by air, so walking really isnt that big of an issue.
The problem with your other point, that while its attempt is to create and funnel players towards less confusing pvp, is that it destroys a bit of the exploration that goes along with this genre. More importantly, the way its set up, any race can go to another races map, thus its not really about racial pairings anymore because they allow this.
I go to the Chaos map and find myself around Greenskins and Darkelves who are doing the same thing I am doing for example. When pvping in that zone I am not fighting just Empire but dwarves and high elves as well.
While racial pairing makes for some pve named mobs, the illusion of race vs race in that zone is shattered by the fact that all the races are in all the places doing all the things because its easy and accessible to do.
Just so you know, I spent four hours last night exploring the Nordic lands.. I have never felt more thrilled exploring in my life. The forests are so thick and atmospheric with occasional beams of light coming through the dark thicket. There's troll valleys that feel like you're in the book the Hobbit and I reached areas that will be unlocked come release for further exploration. As I went deeper and deeper into the lands, I encountered others who were doing battle with the denzions of the world. I helped slay a very strange lythancropic clan in a wood thicket, then the sorceress and huge armored chosen one, and a few others followed me further into the deep dark forests I mentioned. We found a village and alerted militia men running about trying to stop us from entering. The greatest thing about this game is for any given distance, you see an amazing place teaming with life and atmosphere and you usually find out the place you have just entered to explore is actually part of a PQ that you can take part in taking over that village you saw that drew your attention to the area. I don't think I've encountered more beautiful landscapes in my gaming life.
Just so you know, I spent four hours last night exploring the Nordic lands.. I have never felt more thrilled exploring in my life. The forests are so thick and atmospheric with occasional beams of light coming through the dark thicket. There's troll valleys that feel like you're in the book the Hobbit and I reached areas that will be unlocked come release for further exploration. As I went deeper and deeper into the lands, I encountered others who were doing battle with the denzions of the world. I helped slay a very strange lythancropic clan in a wood thicket, then the sorceress and huge armored chosen one, and a few others followed me further into the deep dark forests I mentioned. We found a village and alerted militia men running about trying to stop us from entering. The greatest thing about this game is for any given distance, you see an amazing place teaming with life and atmosphere and you usually find out the place you have just entered to explore is actually part of a PQ that you can take part in taking over that village you saw that drew your attention to the area. I don't think I've encountered more beautiful landscapes in my gaming life.
Now these are posts to my liking. Thanks for sharing this with us.
I don't understand why people want all MMOs to be the same.
and I really don't understand people who start bashing an MMO because it's not to their liking. honestly, if you think WoW is better - then stick with it, just don't go around and say that all games should be more like WoW.
a big persistent world does NOT mean the game is a sandbox. sandbox, at least for me, is a game where you're hardly ever limited by unchangeable choices. WoW, for example, has many limitations. a class system is always a limitation, not being able to manually choose attributes is a limitation, etc...
further more, I think WAR just needs more polish, more content, more customization (it didn't even launch yet so it got time). it is good as it is; it aims for a certain crowd; people who want an MMO with focus on PVP, but on a bigger scale than usual.
making the world more open would barely change a thing.
The sad reality about WoW is that for all its huge seamless(ish) world - because you teleport between continents - most of it sees very little action outside of the designated levels for each zone.
The reason is because WoW put in place all sorts of mechanisms (endless spawning guards) to stop pvp in areas they don't want, and did not put in any rewards for killing faction leaders and so forth.
So yes, WoW's world is more seamless. But in reality most people at endgame stick in a pretty small area.
That said, I do wish that WAR was not so zoned, but I guess its the way they cope with the computing demands at today's technology.
Lol guys, cmon. OP is an obvious troll and wow fanboy. He keeps comparing wow, a 4 year old game, to a game that is still in beta (btw, wow was pretty bad and small in beta). Stop fueling the fire, this OP has never played this game and it's pretty obvious due to the things hes been saying. Stop responding to the obvious troll.
In fact, you guys are the trolls and not him. The go back to WoW statement has been the downfall of many MMO's lately.
Matrix Online fanbois > go back to WoW
Auto Assault fanbois > go back to WoW
Asheron's Call fanbois > go back to WoW
Vanguard fanbois > go back to WoW
Tabula Rasa fanbois > go back to WoW
Age of Conan fanbois > go back to WoW
You see a possible trend here? I do.
Have a nice day.
The original post is a troll. If you don't knwo what troll means.. Then STFU.. because you clearly do not.
The biggest problem with every game that's come out, is the WoW fanbois jump in and say "This isn't WoW" Then bitch and moan about how they want it to play like WoW.. This game ISN'T WoW. I'm sorry you've only experienced WoW.. and know nothing of any other game that came out before.
Asheron's Call folks saying STFU and go back to WoW? I think you are stupid. I have meant 0 people saying "I can't do this.. like I can in WoW".. won't happen. AC is too low tech to hold anybody from WoW's attention.
For the Record, this is a troll post. I'm adding to it.
I don't want to get too involved in this pissfest of a thread, but I did want to address a few things regarding the game being "seamless". 1) The lore. WAR is based on the Warhammer IP. The whole world/map hasn't been created, its only a partial subset of the entire world. The zones aren't actually next to each other. Making the Elf pairing next to the Empire/Chaos pairing doesn't make sense and does not fit the lore. The other option is to create a huge game world with lots of empty space in between just to appease those who want it to be seamless (who would then be complaining that it takes 4 hours of walking through empty/unfinished lands to get to the other pairings. 2) Game Mechanics. The zones are formatted in a way to create pairings, the ability to take control of a zone, and server performance. All for the sake of making a RvR game fair and stable. I'm sure they would have wanted to create a seamless world if possible, but it wasn't a priority over say, something minor like the entire game mechanics. I've also ran across multiple zones in tier 4 without a loading screen, its the travelling to different pairings that always triggers it.
That's bull.
It's how the zones are designed and put together into creating a gameworld.
How I hate Norrath being divided in many zones. SOE did a great job in the overall desing and layout of Norrath.
The zones in EverQuest 2 actually make sense and are trully connected to eachother to create a real virtual world called Norrath.
Even tho it's all divided into zones, it's still seamlessly connected without any gaps.
Funcom killed the immersion factor in Age of Conan by have a huge map called Hyboria and just plunged some small and even tiny zones here and there on the map, spread out all over the world map.
If you have to divide your MMO into zones for the sake of performance and instancing, then you can still design and layout the zones in a way that makes sense and give you a feel of immersion by logical and seamless connected zones.
I haven't seen WAR yet, as I am one of those unfortunate CE Pre-Order EU customers who got screwed over by GOA and the Mythic-GOA communication debacle.
All I hope is that Mythic followed the path in how SOE layed out the zones in EQ2 rather then the horrible Funcom path of just plunging some zones here and there on teh world map.
Cheers
You are missing the point.
The difference is that you are basing your opinions on A) made up game lore like EQ's and primarily PVE games. If you have made up lore, you then have the ability to base the lore AROUND map/zone design. There is a huge difference.
Its like saying, hey I want to create a game that is focused on Canada, Mexico and Italy. How do you make something like that seamless? You can redraw the map and shape of all the countries making them their own continent, or you can fill in the empty voids between them with massive amounts of content that would end up being bigger than what the three areas you wanted to create in the first place.
If you are making a game from scratch, with its lore, and everything else and not making it seamless, you are very much correct. Its stupid not to. But in the case of WAR, I can't see how you could make the game seamless without major breaks in the lore, or making miles and miles of bland computer genned content.
When I look at the warhammer map, I just don't see how it can be done unless you want to disregard that map.
This is the same as AoC (warhammer is) its not big its confined and A to B to C... I wont buy it. I want sand box, not possible console products. Smells like, looks like...I call it s**t. Its totally linear there isnt a world just lvls... it sucks in 2008. For real mmos.
Comparing Warhammer to Aoc is like comparing a nice new Corvette to a smoking volkswagon bug that need a paint job LOL.
Wahammers preview weekend was way more polished than AOC is today after 3 months of patches and the fact I dont have to run through a portal every time i enter a new area is great, couldnt stand that in AOC.
There's a limit about instances in the world, if its so instances like AoC than it breaks all the fun. imagine you and your guildies are in the same area but you can't see each other because the zone you are in is full.
So he's in the same area but different zone....
Why people keep using WoW is because its the most played game, so most of us will know what we are talking about when we use the example. People have to play that game first to hate it.
Does it matter to me if its too instances? YES!!! that's what the forum is for! For me to ask question, gather info regarding somethings that i dont know, and to bring it to a better perspective ( in this case by using WoW) so that the majority of you understand what im talking about....
Other than the instanced scenarios WAR is setup almost exactly like EQ so bit confused by what your complaints are. There are a couple group instanced dungeons but most are open, there is some zoning but the world zones aren't instanced at all.
Lots of people replying while not having a clue, lots of people posting about something the OP didn't ask for. Lets rephrase the question in a way that even people with an IQ of 14 (e-thugs) can understand;
When traveling through the world, are you hopping from instance to instance and zoning in and out of areas/cities the whole time or does it "feel" to be an actual world/environment which you move through without constantly being annoyed/interfered by zoning?
WOW does this quite well, as long as you stay on the continent and don't go into an instance it's the same area. No zoning or loading so you get a feel for the world. AoC is very bad regarding this, it feels like Guildwars and totally destroys the effect of being in a believable world.
Other than the instanced scenarios WAR is setup almost exactly like EQ so bit confused by what your complaints are. There are a couple group instanced dungeons but most are open, there is some zoning but the world zones aren't instanced at all.
Thank you very much. Im not complaining, just wana get some answer regarding how the world is separate by instance. I think keeper said it best by this:
"When you cross from one map to the other there is a second of lag but no loading screen at all (of course depending on how many people are around and such). When you travel between racial conflict zone (between the land of Chaos vs Empire and Elves and Greenies vs Stunties) you do have a loading screen. When you pass from one tier to another, you have a loading screen (remember each tier has 2 maps but passing throught them doesnt need loading screen; it's when you go from tier 1 to tier 2 and so on). When you travel to the main city, you have a loading screen. That are the loading screen points that I recall now."
I dont mind RvR that is instance, actually im expecting it, just not too much for the rest of the world. Eg, i wana run from Ori to Thunder Buff without loading screen, which its not the case in War...
Can you in WAR fly freely over a continent and land anywhere you want in that continent to quest and have adventures or do some open world PvP at any time anywhere you want?
Uh, yeah it's called a flight master. Instead we dont have to wait 8 minutes to go to the next place lmao. From lvl 1 you can go to a warcamp and ride to another tier. You do not have to quest in the DE zone if you are a DE. The best part is, if you chose to quest DE for T1, you can easily go to Greenskin for Tier 2 or Choas for Tier 3. So this "omg you are on a narrow path" thing is blown out of porportion. You are only as limited as you would like to keep yourself.
I get where your coming from it does feel like there is a set path that you go down...not to great for immersion why can't we get an open world like mass effect even yeah it has loading screens but what I am saying is you are free to go where you want when you want ya know like a massive world to level in.
Thats what EQ AO DaoC AC where, but now we're heading down this trail of ... A B C ....War is as bad if not worse than AoC. I want a world....to much consoles not enough expanding....WoW is big cause its big...making something smaller and faster is great for NASA but not good for MMOs (guild wars, hellgate AoC and now Warhammer)... Im really sad about this.
EQ to my knowledge has always been bigger than WoW. And the big reason that games are made the way they are is to try and encompass as many playstyles as possible. A lot of us veteran gamers dont have the luxury of spending 10 to 12 hours a day playing anymore. Im kinda glad people with lives are kept in mind when developing games.
If you didnt like AoC you wont like War....
{ Mod Edit }
OK that's to much , i hate AoC and i love War , serious i understand the linear leveling problem you are speaking of , and i don't like it either .But It's probably for me , one of the only flaw to a great game . Opinion like .. *you didn't like AoC you will dislike War * Just prove to me that you where a fanboi of another game . Peoples should look at your pass post to see of which one.
This is the worst troll I've seen about this game yet.
I've discovered some freakin awesome stuff by going off the beaten path. If you think it is linear, it is because you haven't played the game or you never left the path because you are afraid of the nasties that live in the forest.
I've found hidden mountain bluffs that you can only get to if you use your brains when jumping from rock to rock and in turn there is a whole new valley of cool MOBs there. I even found a pack of level 23 Yetis near an area primarily for level 12s and 13s. You'd have to be adventurous to get to them but they are there.
I found quest givers on the tops of mountains with really simple quests that give 2k XP for doing something like, "Pick up that bag over there and bring it to me" (the bag is 10 feet away, lazy dwarf). The caves are also amazing. I sometimes wandered down into a cave for what seemed like an hour and when I finally got out, I was like, "Wow...this isn't even where I entered!"
Oh! And then there was islands! Where there is a lot of water, there are these islands and on the islands there are unique MOBs, treasure chests, tome unlocks and all sorts of cool stuff.
Comments
Just a thought, WAR has mounts. Thus open space between zones to travel along wouldnt be so bad. The other note comes from travel by air, so walking really isnt that big of an issue.
The problem with your other point, that while its attempt is to create and funnel players towards less confusing pvp, is that it destroys a bit of the exploration that goes along with this genre. More importantly, the way its set up, any race can go to another races map, thus its not really about racial pairings anymore because they allow this.
I go to the Chaos map and find myself around Greenskins and Darkelves who are doing the same thing I am doing for example. When pvping in that zone I am not fighting just Empire but dwarves and high elves as well.
While racial pairing makes for some pve named mobs, the illusion of race vs race in that zone is shattered by the fact that all the races are in all the places doing all the things because its easy and accessible to do.
Just so you know, I spent four hours last night exploring the Nordic lands.. I have never felt more thrilled exploring in my life. The forests are so thick and atmospheric with occasional beams of light coming through the dark thicket. There's troll valleys that feel like you're in the book the Hobbit and I reached areas that will be unlocked come release for further exploration. As I went deeper and deeper into the lands, I encountered others who were doing battle with the denzions of the world. I helped slay a very strange lythancropic clan in a wood thicket, then the sorceress and huge armored chosen one, and a few others followed me further into the deep dark forests I mentioned. We found a village and alerted militia men running about trying to stop us from entering. The greatest thing about this game is for any given distance, you see an amazing place teaming with life and atmosphere and you usually find out the place you have just entered to explore is actually part of a PQ that you can take part in taking over that village you saw that drew your attention to the area. I don't think I've encountered more beautiful landscapes in my gaming life.
------------------------------
'Cry Havoc, and Let Loose the Dogs of WARRRRR!!!'
Now these are posts to my liking. Thanks for sharing this with us.
I don't understand why people want all MMOs to be the same.
and I really don't understand people who start bashing an MMO because it's not to their liking. honestly, if you think WoW is better - then stick with it, just don't go around and say that all games should be more like WoW.
a big persistent world does NOT mean the game is a sandbox. sandbox, at least for me, is a game where you're hardly ever limited by unchangeable choices. WoW, for example, has many limitations. a class system is always a limitation, not being able to manually choose attributes is a limitation, etc...
further more, I think WAR just needs more polish, more content, more customization (it didn't even launch yet so it got time). it is good as it is; it aims for a certain crowd; people who want an MMO with focus on PVP, but on a bigger scale than usual.
making the world more open would barely change a thing.
The sad reality about WoW is that for all its huge seamless(ish) world - because you teleport between continents - most of it sees very little action outside of the designated levels for each zone.
The reason is because WoW put in place all sorts of mechanisms (endless spawning guards) to stop pvp in areas they don't want, and did not put in any rewards for killing faction leaders and so forth.
So yes, WoW's world is more seamless. But in reality most people at endgame stick in a pretty small area.
That said, I do wish that WAR was not so zoned, but I guess its the way they cope with the computing demands at today's technology.
I beg to differ: http://i309.photobucket.com/albums/kk395/babsala/livingirl.jpg
Cheers
In fact, you guys are the trolls and not him. The go back to WoW statement has been the downfall of many MMO's lately.
Matrix Online fanbois > go back to WoW
Auto Assault fanbois > go back to WoW
Asheron's Call fanbois > go back to WoW
Vanguard fanbois > go back to WoW
Tabula Rasa fanbois > go back to WoW
Age of Conan fanbois > go back to WoW
You see a possible trend here? I do.
Have a nice day.
The original post is a troll. If you don't knwo what troll means.. Then STFU.. because you clearly do not.
The biggest problem with every game that's come out, is the WoW fanbois jump in and say "This isn't WoW" Then bitch and moan about how they want it to play like WoW.. This game ISN'T WoW. I'm sorry you've only experienced WoW.. and know nothing of any other game that came out before.
Asheron's Call folks saying STFU and go back to WoW? I think you are stupid. I have meant 0 people saying "I can't do this.. like I can in WoW".. won't happen. AC is too low tech to hold anybody from WoW's attention.
For the Record, this is a troll post. I'm adding to it.
Currently playing Real Life..
http://i36.tinypic.com/2uyod3k.gif
For all your stalking needs..
http://www.plurk.com/Random_
I beg to differ: http://i309.photobucket.com/albums/kk395/babsala/livingirl.jpg
Cheers
nice one
)
well, we all have free access to RL yet we're here! makes you wonder
That's bull.
It's how the zones are designed and put together into creating a gameworld.
How I hate Norrath being divided in many zones. SOE did a great job in the overall desing and layout of Norrath.
The zones in EverQuest 2 actually make sense and are trully connected to eachother to create a real virtual world called Norrath.
Even tho it's all divided into zones, it's still seamlessly connected without any gaps.
Funcom killed the immersion factor in Age of Conan by have a huge map called Hyboria and just plunged some small and even tiny zones here and there on the map, spread out all over the world map.
If you have to divide your MMO into zones for the sake of performance and instancing, then you can still design and layout the zones in a way that makes sense and give you a feel of immersion by logical and seamless connected zones.
I haven't seen WAR yet, as I am one of those unfortunate CE Pre-Order EU customers who got screwed over by GOA and the Mythic-GOA communication debacle.
All I hope is that Mythic followed the path in how SOE layed out the zones in EQ2 rather then the horrible Funcom path of just plunging some zones here and there on teh world map.
Cheers
You are missing the point.
The difference is that you are basing your opinions on A) made up game lore like EQ's and
primarily PVE games. If you have made up lore, you then have the ability to base the lore AROUND map/zone design. There is a huge difference.
Its like saying, hey I want to create a game that is focused on Canada, Mexico and Italy. How do you make something like that seamless? You can redraw the map and shape of all the countries making them their own continent, or you can fill in the empty voids between them with massive amounts of content that would end up being bigger than what the three areas you wanted to create in the first place.
If you are making a game from scratch, with its lore, and everything else and not making it seamless, you are very much correct. Its stupid not to. But in the case of WAR, I can't see how you could make the game seamless without major breaks in the lore, or making miles and miles of bland computer genned content.
When I look at the warhammer map, I just don't see how it can be done unless you want to disregard that map.
Comparing Warhammer to Aoc is like comparing a nice new Corvette to a smoking volkswagon bug that need a paint job LOL.
Wahammers preview weekend was way more polished than AOC is today after 3 months of patches and the fact I dont have to run through a portal every time i enter a new area is great, couldnt stand that in AOC.
There's a limit about instances in the world, if its so instances like AoC than it breaks all the fun. imagine you and your guildies are in the same area but you can't see each other because the zone you are in is full.
So he's in the same area but different zone....
Why people keep using WoW is because its the most played game, so most of us will know what we are talking about when we use the example. People have to play that game first to hate it.
Does it matter to me if its too instances? YES!!! that's what the forum is for! For me to ask question, gather info regarding somethings that i dont know, and to bring it to a better perspective ( in this case by using WoW) so that the majority of you understand what im talking about....
RIP Orc Choppa
Other than the instanced scenarios WAR is setup almost exactly like EQ so bit confused by what your complaints are. There are a couple group instanced dungeons but most are open, there is some zoning but the world zones aren't instanced at all.
Lots of people replying while not having a clue, lots of people posting about something the OP didn't ask for. Lets rephrase the question in a way that even people with an IQ of 14 (e-thugs) can understand;
When traveling through the world, are you hopping from instance to instance and zoning in and out of areas/cities the whole time or does it "feel" to be an actual world/environment which you move through without constantly being annoyed/interfered by zoning?
WOW does this quite well, as long as you stay on the continent and don't go into an instance it's the same area. No zoning or loading so you get a feel for the world. AoC is very bad regarding this, it feels like Guildwars and totally destroys the effect of being in a believable world.
Thank you very much. Im not complaining, just wana get some answer regarding how the world is separate by instance. I think keeper said it best by this:
"When you cross from one map to the other there is a second of lag but no loading screen at all (of course depending on how many people are around and such). When you travel between racial conflict zone (between the land of Chaos vs Empire and Elves and Greenies vs Stunties) you do have a loading screen. When you pass from one tier to another, you have a loading screen (remember each tier has 2 maps but passing throught them doesnt need loading screen; it's when you go from tier 1 to tier 2 and so on). When you travel to the main city, you have a loading screen. That are the loading screen points that I recall now."
I dont mind RvR that is instance, actually im expecting it, just not too much for the rest of the world. Eg, i wana run from Ori to Thunder Buff without loading screen, which its not the case in War...
yap, sorry for the confusion...
RIP Orc Choppa
So open your eyes...
Can you in WAR fly freely over a continent and land anywhere you want in that continent to quest and have adventures or do some open world PvP at any time anywhere you want?
Uh, yeah it's called a flight master. Instead we dont have to wait 8 minutes to go to the next place lmao. From lvl 1 you can go to a warcamp and ride to another tier. You do not have to quest in the DE zone if you are a DE. The best part is, if you chose to quest DE for T1, you can easily go to Greenskin for Tier 2 or Choas for Tier 3. So this "omg you are on a narrow path" thing is blown out of porportion. You are only as limited as you would like to keep yourself.
Thats what EQ AO DaoC AC where, but now we're heading down this trail of ... A B C ....War is as bad if not worse than AoC. I want a world....to much consoles not enough expanding....WoW is big cause its big...making something smaller and faster is great for NASA but not good for MMOs (guild wars, hellgate AoC and now Warhammer)... Im really sad about this.
EQ to my knowledge has always been bigger than WoW. And the big reason that games are made the way they are is to try and encompass as many playstyles as possible. A lot of us veteran gamers dont have the luxury of spending 10 to 12 hours a day playing anymore. Im kinda glad people with lives are kept in mind when developing games.
If you didnt like AoC you wont like War....
{ Mod Edit }
OK that's to much , i hate AoC and i love War , serious i understand the linear leveling problem you are speaking of , and i don't like it either .But It's probably for me , one of the only flaw to a great game . Opinion like .. *you didn't like AoC you will dislike War * Just prove to me that you where a fanboi of another game . Peoples should look at your pass post to see of which one.
This is the worst troll I've seen about this game yet.
I've discovered some freakin awesome stuff by going off the beaten path. If you think it is linear, it is because you haven't played the game or you never left the path because you are afraid of the nasties that live in the forest.
I've found hidden mountain bluffs that you can only get to if you use your brains when jumping from rock to rock and in turn there is a whole new valley of cool MOBs there. I even found a pack of level 23 Yetis near an area primarily for level 12s and 13s. You'd have to be adventurous to get to them but they are there.
I found quest givers on the tops of mountains with really simple quests that give 2k XP for doing something like, "Pick up that bag over there and bring it to me" (the bag is 10 feet away, lazy dwarf). The caves are also amazing. I sometimes wandered down into a cave for what seemed like an hour and when I finally got out, I was like, "Wow...this isn't even where I entered!"
Oh! And then there was islands! Where there is a lot of water, there are these islands and on the islands there are unique MOBs, treasure chests, tome unlocks and all sorts of cool stuff.
WAR is not linear. Only to people afraid of MOBs.