Would You Play This Game?

salris44 · May 2008

After reading through the games features and some of the Q&A, I must say, I am very impressed. It is something different at last, and it looks very interesting. The whole game just seems amazing.

My question is this- would you play this game? It is unique, which is good, but I can also see problems getting the game published (my only concern).

What do you guys think?

pencilrick · May 2008

Much of it looks good. My only concern is the "instancing" and the "personal story". If too many folks are off in instances following quests, then the world might seem kind of empty.

I always liked seeing other players in a world, all doing their own thing. And I think intancing definitely has a place in MMO's, but as a necessary evil, not a desired feature. You intance so folks won't camp the boss mob or because hardware constraints won't hold the player load. But by itself, instancing is not a plus.

However, the game does talk lots about player freedom and different play styles, so I will definitely follow it.

mike470 · May 2008

Originally posted by pencilrick

Much of it looks good. My only concern is the "instancing" and the "personal story". If too many folks are off in instances following quests, then the world might seem kind of empty.
I always liked seeing other players in a world, all doing their own thing. And I think intancing definitely has a place in MMO's, but as a necessary evil, not a desired feature. You intance so folks won't camp the boss mob or because hardware constraints won't hold the player load. But by itself, instancing is not a plus.
However, the game does talk lots about player freedom and different play styles, so I will definitely follow it.

Well remember, the only time you go out instancing is when you follow your own personal story and when you enter your own personal guild hall (I believe). There are many other things to do outside of instancing, such as gambling, do some PVP in the arena, and do anything else that involves social interaction.

The only time when you are instancing is doing quests...everything else involving social interaction is done in the 900,000,000 sq kilometer world. Once it is time to do that quest, then you can get a group of up to 8 people and play.

Personally, I have never grouped for questing in a larger group than 8 people.

Jatar · May 2008

Originally posted by pencilrick

Much of it looks good. My only concern is the "instancing" and the "personal story". If too many folks are off in instances following quests, then the world might seem kind of empty.
I always liked seeing other players in a world, all doing their own thing. And I think intancing definitely has a place in MMO's, but as a necessary evil, not a desired feature. You intance so folks won't camp the boss mob or because hardware constraints won't hold the player load. But by itself, instancing is not a plus.
However, the game does talk lots about player freedom and different play styles, so I will definitely follow it.

I understand your point about liking to see other players occasionally. There are places in the game where there is a lot of social interaction. However, you are correct, while out questing you and your group will be in a massive instance of the entire world, which means you will not be seeing the occasonal other player wandering by.

However, in exchange for this one loss, you will instead be given the opportunity to affect the world in ways you cannot in an area with other players. Quest will be tailored to your character and companions. The stories you take part in are changed by the actions you take. What you do may affect the entire world. There are no camping problems, no collecting 30 rat tail quests, no poping monsters. There are live events, ongoing history, passing time and more. All this in exchange for not seeing another live player run by while on a quest.

We feel the trade off is worth all the gains. When you want to socialize, there are places to do so, when you want to quest, there are options far exceeding what other typical MMO games have to offer. We hope to offer the best of both worlds.

pencilrick · May 2008

Hope it works. My 9 years of experience playing MMO's tells me that players take the path of least resistance.

Giving a player easy direction (i.e., quest instructions) and good experience (few things beat quest experience) could mean that everyone will be hiding out in quests.

Maybe if the quests can be fewer; like every 5 levels or so.

But if quests are plentiful and the easiest path to level; 80% of the folks will be doing just that, even if they don't really enjoy the quest grind.

Something to think about while this game is still in design stages. In fact, hopefully the alpha or beta will be flexible enough to allow for major redesign if they find everyone disappearing into instances.

mike470 · May 2008

Originally posted by pencilrick

Hope it works. My 9 years of experience playing MMO's tells me that players take the path of least resistance.
Giving a player easy direction (i.e., quest instructions) and good experience (few things beat quest experience) could mean that everyone will be hiding out in quests.
Maybe if the quests can be fewer; like every 5 levels or so.
But if quests are plentiful and the easiest path to level; 80% of the folks will be doing just that, even if they don't really enjoy the quest grind.
Something to think about while this game is still in design stages. In fact, hopefully the alpha or beta will be flexible enough to allow for major redesign if they find everyone disappearing into instances.

But how is this any different from a town being empty from everyone out raiding? For a second, imagine questing like rading here.

Now, everyone is out raiding, which means they are all outside of town. They went out with a group of five people to go training, and they went far away from the town. Now it is a very biusy raiding day, so nobody is in the town and they are all out training. Once they have all completed training, they go back into town, socialize, PVP etc.

My point is, it is just like leaving town to go out and train (except you are doing challenging quests). There will be a balance of people questing and people socializing in town.

**NOTE- I was in no way saying the quests are like raiding, I was just using it as an example.

Jatar · June 2008

Originally posted by pencilrick

Hope it works. My 9 years of experience playing MMO's tells me that players take the path of least resistance.
Giving a player easy direction (i.e., quest instructions) and good experience (few things beat quest experience) could mean that everyone will be hiding out in quests.
Maybe if the quests can be fewer; like every 5 levels or so.
But if quests are plentiful and the easiest path to level; 80% of the folks will be doing just that, even if they don't really enjoy the quest grind.
Something to think about while this game is still in design stages. In fact, hopefully the alpha or beta will be flexible enough to allow for major redesign if they find everyone disappearing into instances.

I think you may be missing the point of our game design. Our intention is to make a different kind of game than you have played in your nine years of experience. The game is about quests, but not like what you are used to in other typical MMO games. Everyone WILL be disappearing into Reflected Worlds with groups of friends and teams of Guild members. Players can join or leave your group at nearly any time. Between Quest advancement you can go hang out with even more players (more than your group) to socialize, rearm, get entertainment of various sorts, do research, and so on. But your story is not a single quest, it is ongoing.

Your statement of "Maybe if the quests can be fewer; like every 5 levels or so." makes no sense in our game world. Let's look at this in terms of Lord of the Rings (which I assume you know the story). You are Aragorn, and what you are saying is that while in the middle of chasing down the orcs who took the two hobbits, you decide you are going on vacation for several months. You're not going to try to rescue the hobbits, you are going to miss out on the battle at Helms Deep, skip the paths of the dead, and fail to save Gondor... you are going on a 'break' and will come see how things are going in the world after you do some random monster killing to strengthen up your skills. Too bad if Sauron rules the world by the time you think you want to get back into the Quest to destroy the ring and defeat him.

You see, unlike other MMO games you might have played, in Citadel of Sorcery time is moving on, your story is moving on, time does not stand still and let you 'do an occasonal quest'. Your character's life is one continuous quest. Quests in Citadel of Sorcery are not a series of simple unconnected tasks, they are the sequential story of your character's life, and time is moving on. This is a game about the unique epic story of your character's life, you can't take 'time outs'.

All ths being said, I don't really expect you (or almost any MMO veteran) to understand our game at this point. You are seeing it from the viewpoint of all the other MMO games you have played, and we have little in common with what they call 'Quests'. You cannot choose to 'level up' by 'grinding'. Your character progresses because your personal story progresses.

Our game may or may not be your cup of tea, but regardless, it will be different from what you have played. The good news is, if you want to play more of the same game you have been playing for nine years, there are lots and lots of clones out there to play. In those other games you can see lots of players pass by collecting their 25 wolf tails while you collect your 25 wolf tails. Meanwhile, I''ll be playing Citadel of Sorcery, living through my own epic quest where the choices I make, the actions I take, all change the outcome of my quests and the future of the world.

I'm sure there are a few people who will join me.

Jesse01 · June 2008

Originally posted by Jatar

I understand your point about liking to see other players occasionally. There are places in the game where there is a lot of social interaction. However, you are correct, while out questing you and your group will be in a massive instance of the entire world, which means you will not be seeing the occasonal other player wandering by.

However, in exchange for this one loss, you will instead be given the opportunity to affect the world in ways you cannot in an area with other players. Quest will be tailored to your character and companions. The stories you take part in are changed by the actions you take. What you do may affect the entire world. There are no camping problems, no collecting 30 rat tail quests, no poping monsters. There are live events, ongoing history, passing time and more. All this in exchange for not seeing another live player run by while on a quest.
We feel the trade off is worth all the gains. When you want to socialize, there are places to do so, when you want to quest, there are options far exceeding what other typical MMO games have to offer. We hope to offer the best of both worlds.

So, if we won't be randomly running into other players while out questing, how will guilds grow and pick up groups form? Grouping with someone while out questing has been one of the main ways I've gotten to know people in game and how I've gotten invited to guilds. How will these social dynamics be handled in CoS? While I'm very excited about many of this games features, at the moment it seems like a non-massively multiplayer game with social hubs (eg. cities) being the only place where large amounts of people can interact.

Jatar · June 2008

Originally posted by Jesse01

Originally posted by Jatar

I understand your point about liking to see other players occasionally. There are places in the game where there is a lot of social interaction. However, you are correct, while out questing you and your group will be in a massive instance of the entire world, which means you will not be seeing the occasonal other player wandering by.

However, in exchange for this one loss, you will instead be given the opportunity to affect the world in ways you cannot in an area with other players. Quest will be tailored to your character and companions. The stories you take part in are changed by the actions you take. What you do may affect the entire world. There are no camping problems, no collecting 30 rat tail quests, no poping monsters. There are live events, ongoing history, passing time and more. All this in exchange for not seeing another live player run by while on a quest.
We feel the trade off is worth all the gains. When you want to socialize, there are places to do so, when you want to quest, there are options far exceeding what other typical MMO games have to offer. We hope to offer the best of both worlds.

So, if we won't be randomly running into other players while out questing, how will guilds grow and pick up groups form? Grouping with someone while out questing has been one of the main ways I've gotten to know people in game and how I've gotten invited to guilds. How will these social dynamics be handled in CoS? While I'm very excited about many of this games features, at the moment it seems like a non-massively multiplayer game with social hubs (eg. cities) being the only place where large amounts of people can interact.

You are correct, but we believe there is plenty of time for interaction between players when not grouped up actively pursuing their personal quest storyline. I can't predict if you personally will find that to be true since everyone is different. Yet we believe there is a large market of players seeking better game play. It is for these people that we are making a different kind of game. Those who wish to meet people will have places to go to do that very thing, while players who already belong to a guild or get together with friends for the evening to have a real in depth exciting adventure will have that available to them. In other MMO games I have played I only get the first choice.

Jesse01 · June 2008

Originally posted by Jatar
You are correct, but we believe there is plenty of time for interaction between players when not grouped up actively pursuing their personal quest storyline. I can't predict if you personally will find that to be true since everyone is different. Yet we believe there is a large market of players seeking better game play. It is for these people that we are making a different kind of game. Those who wish to meet people will have places to go to do that very thing, while players who already belong to a guild or get together with friends for the evening to have a real in depth exciting adventure will have that available to them. In other MMO games I have played I only get the first choice.

Thanks for the reply Jatar. I'm definitely one of those who is looking for better game play, and I understand that trade offs are necessary when you're doing something as different and unique as CoS. I hope my post didn't come across as a jab at the game, I'm just trying to clarify my understanding of it. I can't wait to learn more!

By the way, there haven't been any news updates on the CoS website since mid April. Are you planning to release new info anytime soon?

mike470 · June 2008

Originally posted by Jesse01

Originally posted by Jatar
You are correct, but we believe there is plenty of time for interaction between players when not grouped up actively pursuing their personal quest storyline. I can't predict if you personally will find that to be true since everyone is different. Yet we believe there is a large market of players seeking better game play. It is for these people that we are making a different kind of game. Those who wish to meet people will have places to go to do that very thing, while players who already belong to a guild or get together with friends for the evening to have a real in depth exciting adventure will have that available to them. In other MMO games I have played I only get the first choice.

Thanks for the reply Jatar. I'm definitely one of those who is looking for better game play, and I understand that trade offs are necessary when you're doing something as different and unique as CoS. I hope my post didn't come across as a jab at the game, I'm just trying to clarify my understanding of it. I can't wait to learn more!

By the way, there haven't been any news updates on the CoS website since mid April. Are you planning to release new info anytime soon?

They only report milestones and bugs.

But in April, Jatar did state a milestone was coming up soon..

Also, I'm sure as the game gets closer to release there will be more constant updates, as well as forums getting added. Also, if you would like to learn more, I reccommend you read the FAQ, it's filled with helpful information.

Jatar · June 2008

Originally posted by Jesse01

Thanks for the reply Jatar. I'm definitely one of those who is looking for better game play, and I understand that trade offs are necessary when you're doing something as different and unique as CoS. I hope my post didn't come across as a jab at the game, I'm just trying to clarify my understanding of it. I can't wait to learn more!

By the way, there haven't been any news updates on the CoS website since mid April. Are you planning to release new info anytime soon?

No problem, we know there are a lot of questions on people's minds about how this new game will work and what the changes will affect. I'm glad you are interested in trying the game, maybe we can share an adventure or two when that time comes.

As for news, I believe that the next post should come out soon, but we like to note important changes in the progress and truthfully, there are two areas currently worthy of news, yet both are not quite there yet. Once either (or both) reach a news worthy state we'll post about them on the web site. I know that's kind of vague and cryptic, but... that's all I can say

How about I just give you some personal observation? The quest designs are progressing nicely. We're working within the new system that was created not too long ago and adding more and more quests. Each one sounds so interesting that I want to play them myself and see how my choices lead to various outcomes.

But writing them is not an easy task. It's not like writing a book where you think of a good story and write it down. Each of our quests has to work with the quest generator, which takes a single human created storyline( that requires the writer to follow certain guidelines) and modifies it into thousands of variations. These variations are then modified at game time to work within a player's personal story rather than be an unconnected episode. I can't really tell you more, and some of it is very technical anyway, but I can tell you that even if I wrote the quest myself, I could play it and not know exactly how it would go, what my choices would bring next, etc.

mike470 · June 2008

Jatar, after reading your post, I felt like I was watching a movie, and at the end something happens which hints towards the sequel. Just like when books leave a cliffhanger..it drives me crazy!

Can't...take..the...suspension....must...know...more...

dafuzzle · June 2008

Originally posted by mike470

Jatar, after reading your post, I felt like I was watching a movie, and at the end something happens which hints towards the sequel. Just like when books leave a cliffhanger..it drives me crazy!
Can't...take..the...suspension....must...know...more...

Patience mike, only time will tell

Jatar · June 2008

To put a period on this, the news was posted. The main two areas of news were about the new animation pipeline and the Artificial Intelligence net.

Both are still not finished However, they do have progress.

Jatar · July 2008

Back on topic though...

Would I play this game?

Well, it seems odd for one of the members of the team to post a reply to this thread, but... YES!

The thing is, Citadel of Sorcery is being designed so that no one can post walk throughs on the net. Or a different way of putting it, even if I wrote a quest I could still play it and have fun, and be surprised by what came next. Sure, I might know the flavor of the quest (if I wrote it) but I would still not know all the details of what was happening until it happened.

Of course, I'm not writing all the quests (who could?) So it is likely that there will be MANY quests I can play just like everyone else. And I can tell you, I AM looking forward to getting on a quest with some friends and seeing where it takes me.

I was reading the design on one just the other day... you see, there was this egg.... well, not a real egg, it was egg shaped, man made, valuable... I think, mysterious, yes, everyone wanted the damn thing... hell, the Tyvens were going ape $#|+ over the thing (you know Tyvens, they have a thing for eggs). There was this master thief, and this NASTY grim spirit...

Anyway... it sounded exciting, and well, amusing all at the same time. Can't wait to play that one and see what happens in the end.

mike470 · July 2008

Originally posted by Jatar

Back on topic though...
Would I play this game?
Well, it seems odd for one of the members of the team to post a reply to this thread, but... YES!
The thing is, Citadel of Sorcery is being designed so that no one can post walk throughs on the net. Or a different way of putting it, even if I wrote a quest I could still play it and have fun, and be surprised by what came next. Sure, I might know the flavor of the quest (if I wrote it) but I would still not know all the details of what was happening until it happened.
Of course, I'm not writing all the quests (who could?) So it is likely that there will be MANY quests I can play just like everyone else. And I can tell you, I AM looking forward to getting on a quest with some friends and seeing where it takes me.
I was reading the design on one just the other day... you see, there was this egg.... well, not a real egg, it was egg shaped, man made, valuable... I think, mysterious, yes, everyone wanted the damn thing... hell, the Tyvens were going ape $#|+ over the thing (you know Tyvens, they have a thing for eggs). There was this master thief, and this NASTY grim spirit...
Anyway... it sounded exciting, and well, amusing all at the same time. Can't wait to play that one and see what happens in the end.

Reading this makes me want to play CoS even more...Which I didn't know was even possible

I look forward to doing quests as interesting as that one in CoS.

SwampRob · July 2008

It sounds very promising. I tip my hat for some of the innovations in the game. I do have some concerns:

If everyone has a deep and possibly lengthy personal mission (which sounds great), won't that make it difficult to recruit others to help you with yours? How necessary will it be to get those others to complete your quest? Will it be soloable? How much of the game will be?

From the screenshots, the graphics look great. How high-end a system will be required to run the game?

Best of luck in your MMO.

mike470 · July 2008

Originally posted by SwampRob
   If everyone has a deep and possibly lengthy personal mission (which sounds great), won't that make it difficult to recruit others to help you with yours?
I believe it is always possible to have someone join your group.   People can jump on your personal story and help you out, and it will have an afefct on the overall outcome. This not only changes your story, but also your partners' story as well.
How necessary will it be to get those others to complete your quest?  Will it be soloable?    How much of the game will be?
The WHOLE game is solable. You are never forced to group, and can always solo your own personal quests. You have to option o group, but your WHOLE personal story can be soloed.
    From the screenshots, the graphics look great.   How high-end a system will be required to run the game?
I don't believe the system reqs will be too high, but I am not posistive.
Best of luck in your MMO.

I'll answer what I can.

Celimah · July 2008

Absolutely. I am pretty bored with everything else I have played and am looking for more depth.

adel · July 2008

I really can not wait to play this Game. I have been following since the first article was posted on mmorpg.com

must have read the q&A about 20 times hoping to find something different:) but I love the basis of the gave. I get to have my own Epic story while at the same time I can play a supporting role in some elses epic story. And as they affect my story i affect theirs. I The possibilites boggle the mind.

I for one am looking forward to a chance to group w/ Jatar.

That should be a contest win a oppertunity to group w/ Jatar and 7 winners get to go on a very special quest.

noobzor · August 2008

i to have been whating for a long time but i found this game like this.

one day i was bourd so i went on the internet and typed MMORPG.COM and it brought me to this site. i then looked at the game list and the first cool sounding one was Citidal of Scorcery.

and about the quest thing im not sure if that would be fair for the late coming players but it would be interesting.

Hypermiike · August 2008

I will definitely play this game! I've noticed the game awhile ago and I believe I've read everything I can possibly read about this game at least twice! One question pops into my mind though... Me and my best friend want to be like a duo of heros in the game is this possible to group on everything or mostly everything? By the way this game is making me twitch....*twitch*....*twitch*....*twitch*....

mike470 · August 2008

Originally posted by Hypermiike
One question pops into my mind though... Me and my best friend want to be like a duo of heros in the game is this possible to group on everything or mostly everything?

You can group for questing, crafting, minigames, and many other activities. In CoS you always have the option to group with players to do activities; although you are never forced to. So yes, you can both group on activities like quests, crafting, minigames, and more. But, say your friend is offline, then you can still do all of those things because in COS you can both solo and group - it's your choice.

So yes.

feralamour · September 2008

Everything I've read so far has me in awe. This is everything I've ever wanted to do to a game or server. Dynamic environments, dynamic quest system, dynamic everything.

Love it.

toddze · September 2008

I would be willing to try it. The Dev posting here kind of makes it sound fun. I actually commend that a member of the Dev team posts on their game.

I dont mean to rain on anybodies parade but I have heard this MMO changing great revolution story before. There has always been some implementation flaw or something to ruin the entire game. I have learned my lesson in the past about getting excited about a revolutionary game. I hope, I truly do that some company can pull it off.

What I am extremely weary about is all the instances. I think an MMO should just trash any idea of an instance. The dev however said it’s a different type, but I just cant buy into an instance being beneficial (I like competition). To me it sounds more like an online single RPG with spots put together for social get togethers.

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