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Remember Cryptic who your target audience is, and don't get fooled
Faxxer
Member Posts: 3,247
Teens don't give a flying crap about star trek.
30-50 yr olds do.
Teens want a fast paced star warsy or shall I say Star trekkie experience. (until they get bored in a month)
30-50 yr olds want an immersive experience that lets them build their character with an investment of time and LIVE the star trek world that Gene gave us the vision of.
Teens will drop you when the next game comes out.
30-50 yr olds are looking for agame to spend YEARS In. We like complex puzzles, not games that actually have an age listed on the side.
Teens.... are not consistent income.
30-50 yr olds have jobs and credit cards a plenty.
This 35 yr old wants a game worth playing. A game that has the OPTION to have a crew of real ppl and when my engineer logs off then an NPC can take over his station. When my ship is blown up because I went around starting a fight it had better cost me something so I will think twice about being an A$$ and have no consequences for my actions.
I would have been STo's best fanboi ever.....but now i'm very skeptical and will not blindly hand over my CC number.
Who's your target Cryptic? A coh/cov kid? or a fan of trek? Cause we're not kids anymore.
I'm calling you out! Other game companies have burned me and you aren't getting the same blind trust that I gave SOE. Time to put up or shut up. Poop or get off the pot! :P
ya, i'm in a mood today. :P
faxx
Comments
I have the same doubts as you.
Every time I visit their forums, I see more and more teenage angst and less fans.
It sounds like Sims Online: Star Trek Edition to me now
I have a feeling they wont cave in to the teens. The developer himself said hes been reading every book watching every episode and every movie of every franchise.
Hell, Perpetual didnt even do that. I give him props for that. I consider myself a trekkie but I never read all the books hes had to read so far.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
I am hoping that cryptic does something along the lines of mythic, in that they pretty much ignore the forums in general. The official forums for Star Trek Online are some of the worst I have come across since leaving WoW, SWG, and AoC. People whining about how federation vessels should get cloaking devices because it would give an unfair advantage to klingons, how the idea of a klingon vs federation war is inconceivable, blah blah blah blah blah.
I seriously believe that developers should take the approach of: "This is the game we are making whether you like it or not is entirely up to you. We hope you will like it, it's definately something that we all want to play."
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
Well said!!! I completely agree with you. The majority of teens today know next to nothing about what the world of Star Trek. If Cryptic seeks to make a good chunk of quick cash they can advertise this game in a big way and count on coin upon release. However it won't take long for subscriptions to drop when the next big game is released.
I want a challenging, mature, game that I can enjoy over the years to come and it would really be sweet to be able to explore the world of Star Trek.
This is a good post. I hope you put that in the STO forum. Believe it or not the devs do listen to what's important. It is true that the last few days more of the twitchy quick thrills type have been posting but I think it is because most of us old farts are waiting for something more significant to come out to comment on. But this post is good to rattle the cage to let them know we are still here.
Great post, OP.
I'm in that age group you described. With the age group of Star Trek in their 30s and 40s, if Cryptic caters to us with a great game based on cannon, they'll be well rewarded with years of loyal and paying customers. Besides, what Trekkie won't want to be able to live in the Star Trek universe?
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
I am a member on the official sto forum, but i like to post here... I posted another thread that someone asked me to post there....I just get so busy i forget.
I will try to post over there if i can...but feel free to help if u want ur more than welcome to copy and paste it or even post it as your own over there. I don't get bent on such things
faxx
True that yo! lol
What happens when a developer fails to acknowledge the soul of the game? When the true genre fans that know the canon inside and out are ignored. You get Star Wars Galaxies. The worst MMORPG disaster to date.
I'm pretty sure if you point that out to the developers the idea of epic failure will ring in their ears.
$OE is the most mocked gaming company ever established.
If Cryptic wants to avoid the same fate, I'm sure they will do what is right and heed the constructive critcism of their knowledgable fans; while ignoring the crying from cheap thrill seeking kiddos.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
I think you need to understand how a business works. That is the first thing to mention.
Are we Star Trek fans? Yes. Should we discriminate because of someones age? I don't think so.
How many fans of WoW are going to line up for the first sneak peak of Star Trek Online? If you don't know, I'll help you out. The answer is, not very many. I could be 15 or 50, if I respect the Star Trek universe, then why does it matter if I'm a teen or a middle aged player? Age has absolutely nothing to do with maturity. I've met plenty of older people who are complete idiots.
Cryptic simply cannot build their game around one fans opinion. As a business, they must find out what most hardcore trekkies would like and balance that with what most new players would like.. that may have never played a MMO before. Sure, they could make money with that dedicated player base (just like LOTRO), but can they draw people that may not have been all that interested in the idea of Star Trek? Games are trending away from the hardcore, from the complex. The arguement is that most people don't play games to be frustrated. Unfortunately that arguement works.. because if you're a game developer, how are you supposed to sell copoes of your game when most people think it's too hard? Why do you think WoW did so well? I hate to say it, but it was a very well made game. Easily accessable by most gamers with an internet connection that had a computer that was made any time after 1995. You could get right in and it was mind-numbingly simple to progress through most of the game.
You are going to have to taket he bad with the good. The game isn't even in alpha stages yet. There is no estimated release date, only.. it will be released sometime after Champions. You have no idea what the player environment is going to look like. I will have to agree with Cryptic here and say it's a good idea that there are no player crews. It just isn't feasible. What if the captian is gone? What if the commander isn't there? Then who is in charge? You're going to end up with NPC's anyways. This will give you every opportunity to do what you want to do in the universe. Instead of sitting there, staring at a computer terminal, competing useless puzzles. A MMO isn't supposed to be a complete borefest. You don't sell copies that way.
The other 35 year old sitting next to you could like Unreal Tournament and sending his friends pictures of fat women doing gross things that I will not mention here. So again, just because you are a certain age.. that doesn't mean you act a certain way. Also, just because you like something.. doesn't mean everyone of your age will like it.
And SOE sucks.. The only game they ever made that I tried was EQ. I quit in less than a month. I'm sorry that you got screwed. I saw that coming.
Thank you for the balance, DAS. While I mostly agree with faxx, I feel compelled to point out:
I'm only 27 years old, but I'm still a Star Trek fan. Happen to have all the movie videos, and some episodes. That's right--VHS. Also the entire Star Trek line of Micro Machines (out of the box because I wanted to play with them). For several years, I had a traditional gift a Hallmark ST ornament, and I still play the NES ST:TOS and ST:TNG games. And I played the ST:TNG opening theme for a piano recital one year.
Also, I've been playing CoX for over almost four years. I would have been playing for longer, but it debuted just after I started grad school and I knew that if I bought it in the middle of a term, I wouldn't get any homework done for the rest of the semester. My main toon is one of the founding members of his supergroup - been in since December 2005. I'm sorry you've had an unpleasant experience with CoX.
Faxx, like you, I'm hoping for a quality, honest-to-Gene Star Trek MMO and not some random space game wearing a Star Trek mask. I learned a while back to keep my expectations low to minimize disappointment. I won't be truly satisfied until I can enroll in Starfleet Academy itself. Since I don't foresee that happening anytime soon, I'll take what I can get.
-------------
The less you expect, the more you'll be surprised. Hopefully, pleasantly so.
I agree(but i would have said 'more mature fans':)) if this turns out to be star trek the kids game i'm out too
but then if they start pandering to a minority of hardcore fanbois, as in their version of star trek so their version of STO(also a prob for SOE and SWG) i'll be out too
Can I say I'm 17 and love Star trek and want the same things that you do..so don't start going around and saying all teens don't know Star Trek. I have been brought up with Star Trek, I especially love The Next Generation.
i agree with you, I want tactical space fights, not wow in space. But i don't agree with you on the crews, I still think that Player crews would be kind of useless because what would the secruity chief do when not on away missions. Its just to much of a struggle finding everybody something to do when they don't have control of the ship.
If I see them screwng this up Cryptic will have hell to pay.
Being 17 and loving trek is VERY rare. I can certainly amend my statement to say "immature" audience. Teens meaning 12-15 was what I was thinking when i wrote OP.
I also agree that a WoW fan won't touch this game, so cryptic should not TRY to bother getting them... it's like republicans campaigning in NYC....total waste of an effort... LOL.
As someone who has his own business, I can say that I know who NOT to target as my customer quite well. ...and I know exactly who to target.
faxx
It's not going to happen. Like it or not, there would be kids playing this game. Developers are not making games for hardcore fans.
Since players can create new customized alien races, be ready to see "D'Pwner race", "Coolz race" and the like. I think that the best we can do is to form alliances with mature players from now on. There are many mature players that are hardcore fans from the 60s and 70s and so on. If there is something I learn from MMOs is to join a guild of people that you can relate to.
I Agreed on some points: The target audience isn't the hard core ST Fans. That base isn't large enough to create the profits this license could generate. However, this license will follow canon material. Jack is reading all the material he can get his hands on.
But the developers said they want Star Trek to be engaging. That means that the game will take on elements one wouldn't see in Star Trek. Character delvelopement being one issue.
Besides the race names.......I need to brace myself for the ship names and decals that can be placed on them.
Someone joining a Federation guild introduces themselves:
Hi all -I am Biach of the Coolz race. This is my ship the "Pimp Mobile".
After seeing a demonstration of Champions Online and listening to the Cryptic Developers during the presentation, I'm calling the quits for Star Trek Online. It will not be the game for me and I'll briefly explain why (even with STO being in early development):
- STO will target the Console Audience over the PC audience. The PC Gaming Retail Gaming Market is dead, whereas the Console Gaming Retail Market is growing.
- Cryptic's Definition of Fun is the critical item. If their definition of fun is in aligned with yours, then that is great, but if not, you are SOL. The best way I can provide a short example would be of this:
According to Cryptic, playing Checkers is Fun, but playing Chess is not Fun. So if you like playing Checkers more so than Chess, then you should like Star Trek Online. But if you are a Chess player at heart... welp sorry.
So that will be it for me on these boards.
STO is a game of Checkers and not of Chess.
I do have confidence that Cryptic will make a good game for those who like the type of fun that City of Heroes provides.
But for those seeking more depth and level of complexity as Chess would be over Checkers, STO is very unlikely to be the MMO for you.
Enjoy
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Lighten up MAN!!! and realize you are jumping the gun.
You may have seen a presentation of CO that you did not find engaging, but remember STO is not CO. The engine may be similar, but the visual look is different. And there is no reason to think CO will be just like STO.
What exactly about STO so far makes you think it will be a truimph of chess over checkers?
How do you know Cryptic will target consoles over PC? Last I checked WOW was still a monster, and Cryptic can hope to compete with that.
There is no evidence features will be left out because consoles are being made as well.
Basically, the game is looking good. I have nothing to complain about except having some worries about the graphics, and the oversimplification that may occuer because of the console ports.
But these are worries. I have heard nothing that would warrant dropping support of this game. Cryptic has blown Perpetual out of the water with what they have shown so far.
I dunno. . . my playstyle tends to be one week hardcore, one month casual, one week hardcore, etc. The idea of being someone else's ensign instead of my own captain would never work for me. I recognize you stressed the word "option," but still. You want them to address your demands, but please recognize the demands of making a marketable game. There's a compromise in here, and in that compromise you might actually find a fun product.
Personally, I'd rather pilot a shuttle craft than man your engineering station, and not only would most players agree, but a game that's one player = one ship is a lot easier/ cheaper to code.
Also, I'm the exact same age as you, OP, and it seems most of the people posting here are in the same general range. Since the STO forum has been reopened on this site, I've seen very little of what you might call maturity.
heh you tellem man.
Oh yea, hate to say this but. this game will probably be played via legacy view. Third person 2-3 inch ship with limited zoom and then third person view for ground play. Cryptics gonna be in deep sh** on release.
I am hoping that cryptic does something along the lines of mythic, in that they pretty much ignore the forums in general. The official forums for Star Trek Online are some of the worst I have come across since leaving WoW, SWG, and AoC. People whining about how federation vessels should get cloaking devices because it would give an unfair advantage to klingons, how the idea of a klingon vs federation war is inconceivable, blah blah blah blah blah.
I seriously believe that developers should take the approach of: "This is the game we are making whether you like it or not is entirely up to you. We hope you will like it, it's definately something that we all want to play."
well said.. i agree 100% there. Companies should stick to the ideas they have for a game and ignore the childish banter and whines of "but i want to be this but i can't unless i chose that" and "Complex?? are you serious? your gonna fail if you make a complex system like that" ignore comments in forums such as this, stick to your guns.. Take Age of Conan's launch under advisement, they had great plans at the beginning but caved in to the beta players (due to majority of beta players being PvP/Raid/WoW fans), and it's usually the same people over and over again that are chosen to do beta tests as they have the past experience from it, back to AoC though, Great ideas and plans at the start, dropped in favour of simplifying things for the beta testers, now the game has lost a lot of it's players already because nothing first mentioned is actually in it. My advice to Cryptic is this.. when you do the beta test, choose from actual star trek fans and people mature enough to try YOUR game out without wanting it changed for the sake of simplicity.
one of 2 things will happen..
1. you'll make an outstanding game that everyone enjoys playing.
2. you'll change your ideas and simplify things which will lose you the trekkies and the people like what the Original poster was mentioning..
Those of us that have the means to pay REGULARLY for the game are those that will likely stick the game out and assist with feedback rather than the youth that will want you to change this and that and then leave for the "next big thing"
I agree mostly with the op on alot of points except: There are some teens who are Star Trek fans so i wouldnt classify them in a semi negative way.
I totally agree that the game needs to be kept as Star Trekkie as possible. Not catered to a bunch of ppl who know little about the ST universe and to make money.
Played : WOW, LOTRO, COH/COV, EQ2, SWG, and WAR.
Playing EVE Online and AOC.
Wtg for SW:TOR and WOD
I think alot of Companies that try MMO's don't understand that there is a huge difference in making a game like GTA and a game like SWG. When SWG came it out it was all sandbox and a brand new style to gaming. Not anymore SOE forgot they had something good to work with and went back to making the GTA style game.
Anyhow hoping Cryptic understands that the sandbox game is made for adults while the ADHD Kiddies would play their other games taht they release for the PS3/XBox/Wii/PC that would hold their attention for a couple of hours.
Put enough working content into a vastly huge play area and you will have us adults paying for years to play.
We have enough Youth, How about a Fountain of Intelligence?
Your opinions reek of poor generilizations. I am 21 years old and I would like a STO that is immersive and lets me live a second life in the Star Trek universe. I wanna find my place in the univeres and then build my character up through the years. But I would also like a fast paced ground combat system and more importantly a fast paced space combat system that gets my heart beating.
I was 18 when I started to play SWG I gave the old combat system a try and hated it, gave the new combat system a try hated it. I found love in crafting and crafted for the rest of the time I was there. And a great amount of time that was I played for atleast 2 1/2 years, thats hudnreds of dollars quite a long term investment for someone under the age of 30.
You might call me the exception to the rule but I find that life is full of exceptions and therefore try and base my opinions on logic, evidence, and thought processes instead of grossly lumping people of a simmilar age group together just because my brain cant come up with a more substantial thought.
"What is it that the gamers want from these games and why is it not given to them? We were playing these games ourselves, that's why we know it was not being done. So we moved in the opposite direction. We thought about what the users wanted, what we wanted, and why it wasn't happening and how it could happen." - Tasos Flambouras
AsiaK, I already said I wasn't meaning a specific age so much as an immature one. But.. To clarify, if cryptic wants the 12 yr old crowd for this game then us 30+ yr olds will likely find the game too simplistic to stick with, if buy at all.
But, my generalization was not based in blind guesswork, fact is the average gamer is 30 yrs old today. That's the fact.
Star trek is a 40 yr old IP. The ppl that loved TNG are now no younger than 20 yrs old. So I say making a game for TEENS is not logical. LOL
TARGET Demographic should be the age i mentioned above, not the young. YES, you also are an exception. There are plenty of them thanx to the fact that they are the kids of the above mentioned aged players lol.
SWG crafting was killed with the NGE. I played the game for over 2 yrs myself, I know how wonderful a REAL sandbox can be.
Look, I won't lie here.... I WANT STO to be the greatest game ever made. I have an idea of what I think it should look and feel like. of course it's different than every other person on here. But i BET my idea of what it should look like fits more 30+ yr olds than of 12-16 yr olds. But I got the credit cards in my wallet, so I'm telling Cryptic if they want OUR money to put up or shut up lol.
Mrhm, I am one of 30-somethings around and this is for now the only future MMO that holds interest for me. I hope it will be a great game but I will settle with decent, it is Star Trek after all. That being said I am in no mood to buy any piece of junk just because it has ST logo printed on its surface.
I am a lifer at LOTRO and that game suits me fine for my fantasy itch, I am not claiming it is the greatest thign after the sliced bread but it does work for me. After WoW and GW I am trully done with fantasy themed MMO's and unles something blows me off my feet (I doubt Warhammer has capacity to do that) I am completely done with fantasy save LOTRO. (Very well, I might get tempted to try VG free trial out of pure curiosity since I had a misfortune of seeing the product at the launch.)
That leaves me, of course, with the desire to play SF themed MMO. However I am too old and too indifferent to care about any SF IP save Star Trek and Star Wars. Star Wars went into rather unfortunate decline after poor developers decisions. That pretty much leaves just Star Trek so here's hoping for the best!