Alfar of Nagast , pointy eared malicous blue people ( Not dark elves!)
"No trace of kindness exists in the world of the alfar, a race whose minds were shattered and then erratically rebuilt by a cruel and insane deity. To the alfar, pleasure is derived from the suffering of others, and the only impulse that can override their urge to torture and destroy, is a marrow-seated need to please their god-king."
Mirdain of Mirendil, pointy eared sophisticated pale people that live in a forest clad homeland( Not high elves!)
"The mirdain are a sophisticated and cultured people, who tend to prefer diplomacy to warfare, and subtlety to brute force. Theirs is an empire of influence and trade, and of intelligence networks which extend like sinuous branches from their forest-clad homeland."
I don't care if he's a troll or not - he brings up a good point. As I said, I believe that, while the lore behind 'fantasy' has always been a genre, Tolkien pretty much constructed a formula for fantasy settings that nearly all fantasy games strictly adhere to. One could argue that other Authors were similarly influental; Robert Howard (Conan), C.S. Lewis, and so forth. The genre was more diverse before the 1950's; Oz was considered a fantasy realm circa 1900, providing a watermark to compare modern fantasy settings to.
The ultimate solution to every problem: more space marines.
Originally posted by originalegg *looks at post history* *troll identified* And the races listed for darkfall are not accurate. *moves on*
*looks at originalegg knowing that he would be here given its a darkfall post*
*realizes that originalegg is the troll and walks away* *looks at his feet* OOOO a shiny quarter!!!! *totally forgot why he wrote this post in the first place for he realized that Originalegg isnt that important to waste anymore time on* *moves on*
(also check your pms - call me a troll as you want...but the people i call trolls get their threads locked and usually end up getting banned. 3 locked and 2 banned today gg)
edit: and yea there is a point to the op, but they way he presented it with conveiniently forgeting what darkfall's races are is not the way to start a thread if you want a serious discussion. A wolfman-esque race is definitely a little different. Wether the qualities of some of the other races are similar to say dark or high elves...they have made the effort to differentiate them so they really arent just using the same old. its a fantasy genre, get use to it.
I don't care if he's a troll or not - he brings up a good point. As I said, I believe that, while the lore behind 'fantasy' has always been a genre, Tolkien pretty much constructed a formula for fantasy settings that nearly all fantasy games strictly adhere to. One could argue that other Authors were similarly influental; Robert Howard (Conan), C.S. Lewis, and so forth. The genre was more diverse before the 1950's; Oz was considered a fantasy realm circa 1900, providing a watermark to compare modern fantasy settings to.
Yep, Tolkien coalesced much of western myth into literature and Robert Howard basically single-handedly invented the action-based Sword and Sorcery genre. Spot on.
And Gary Gygax codified it all into roleplaying games.
Writers and RPG designers have all pretty much just copied these guys ever since.
Edit: I tend to dismiss C. S. Lewis as more of a fantasy hack. In my view, he was mainly just writing thinly-veiled Christian propaganda for kids.
I didn't forget the races in darkfall, I just didn't mention the wolf-man race, or the same "vulmane" race in vanguard. Though I've only seen it in vanguard so I would say the idea is still fresh. Still, that's the only unique race in darkfall. Slapping a new name on some elves isn't going to change much for me. As far as "its a fantasy genre, get use to it.", I can think of about fifty other usable fantasy races off the top of my head. While they can't remove anything from the standard package as someone might go on a killing spree because they can't play a dwarf. I think for every staple race they have they should have at least one original one. Daoc managed to do it.
Someone actually started a thread that began with the intent of humor, and others continued that intent?! Wow, these forums are making a change for the better!
Yes, the standard races in MMOs are beginning to be "BLAH" but they have been expanded and changed before. Just learn to live with it like the rest of us have...Even though elves are happy tree-huggers and dwarves fart, far too often...
------------------------------- It's honestly like everyone logs onto WoW, and games like WoW, just to masturbate. Everyone plays by themselves, and when they don't, they get what they want and get off. ------------------------------- Originally posted by atziluth... Ah yes when the unreasonable are faced with reason they must resort to personal attacks...When you are ready to move up from the kids table you can talk with the grown ups.
I think the reason they have the same types of races in fantasy games is because they are almost human so it allows you to identify with your character. If you could play a giant talking lobster or something like that I bet it wouldn't be a very popular choice.
They could make more effort to invent some other bipedal nearly human type races like the squid faces in wow but I guess people just want what they already know.
The forums must be pretty jaded if all valid points/criticism levied at not only DF, but most contemporaneous fantasy MMOs (add EQ2 and to some extent WoW to the mix) are considered trolling. He didn't mention all of DF's races, but he also didn't mention all the races in Vanguard, as they weren't relevant to his point. You can't deny what he said at face value, even if you don't agree with his opinion. He's not posting it to bait, anger or create controversy, at least the OP didn't convey that intention. I'm starting to believe that some people around here just use troll and "person whose opinions and views I disagree with" interchangeably.
On the topic at hand: Personally I'm not really tired of those races, but I honestly would like to see more exotic ones. There was a project I followed that promised, among many other features, a myriad of playable races, including dragons, gryphons, dopplegangers, etc. And the mechanics behind some of them, while incredibly impractical, seemed interesting. In the end it just ended up being vaporware, not to my surprise, but I'd really like to see stuff like implemented in a game, albeit toned down for reality.
I wouldn't consider myself a troll since I plan on playing both games. I'm just wondering if anyone else is as tired of the "staple races" as I am.
No
Are you being serious Aragon? As much as I hear the talk of generic MMO's being thrown around. I would have thought you'd be one of the people, against staple races. Please note I am not saying Darkfall has staple races. My comment was in reference to fantasy MMO's in general.
Very interesting, even now you still manage to throw curve balls, Aragon.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
Well, Warhammer FB has never made any intention to dismiss the fact that they use the "staple races" as their bread and butter. In fact their diversity tends toward the "evil" races, in that they have Dark Elves, but they also have (or used to) Chaos Dwarves, Chaos Daemons, Beastmen, Lizardmen, Skaven (Ratmen), Undead, Chaos (Basicly Norsemen), and recently added Ogres (which arn't exaclty "evil" but more neutral in the common sense of the term.)
The "Good" Races have a little diversity, but humans are split into two "races" The Empire, basically Teutonic based, and the Bretonnians, Crusader based on the French. Then there are the Wood Elves, which are mentioned by Tolkien as well.
Most of the "Staple" races in Fantasy based MMO's are going to be led by these 5 races, and if you ever played Ultima 1-3 before Ultima Online, these races were a part of those games as well. This isn't new to MMO games. It's not new to Video Games, it's been around for over Fifty years, so to say something like, "here we go again." or "I'm tired of these." is just the youthful generation's way of saying, "I want something else." without actually producing anything themself.
Look, if you want something new, invent it. Otherwise, stop complaining about something because it exists.
Darkfall did create the werewolf like race, but are they the first to do this? well not if you think about it. But at least they're including something "new" for all you people who want to say, "Stop doing the same thing over again."
Yes, I love the "Staple" races, and I like something new too. But hell even Star Trek had Humans and Elves! (Yea, Vulcans are Elves and Romulans are Dark Elves, deal with it.)
*looks at post history* *troll identified* And the races listed for darkfall are not accurate. *moves on*
Races are actually very accurate. I just went to the site. Looked at the races, and saw the same exact thing, but with night elf and high elf renamed. Oh and theres a wolfman, nice. Also read your other rabid aggressively condescending posts as painful as that was, where you would lay out what you like to call "troll bait" and wait for anyone to question your insane rambling about "sandboxes". Here someone points out that fantasy games are falling into a redundant pattern and you pounce with your inquisition as if you were handed a divine right to silence anyone who doesn't immediately agree with you. Your actually proud of being a low rent narc on an internet forum, its pitiful. The sole intention of a forum is to promote discussion, your post history is raving fanboism for darkfall. Granted I think it has potential, but its mildly insane to assume that its just going to be good, based on a few screenshots of elves and some youtube videos of a dev saying "its not gonna be like wow" coincidently what every other game post wow has said. Your post about having saved 50 bucks on aoc is just a sad attempt to anger already disenfranchised aoc players, your a hypocrite, a loser, and a blight on civilization. Ahem, that being said toilken races are not revolutionary, capture the flag is warcraft thievery , no matter what you call the flag. And fantasy in definition is not limited to any structured formula. Dwarves and elves are just getting boring , they both don't exist, which means at some point some guy said, uhh this should be a fantasy race. SO why cant they perform this ritual once again and come up with something original. Lucas came up with wookiees on the toilet , these guys just need to atempt to invent...
Darkfall can name them what they want, but they are still High Elf, Dark Elf, Human, Dwarf and Orc.
But, these are the staple of pretty much every Fantasy game, book, whatever for a very long time. People really would miss them if they werent there. I often see people complaining about Humans being in Fantasy games but in reality Human is usually one of the highest played races.
I like it when something different is thrown in like Lizardmen , Frogmen, Trolls, Ogres, Wolfmen, Undead, etc etc. But even when those newer races are thrown in you will still see Elves (Dark and Light) , Humans and Dwarves being played more then them in alot of cases. They are familiar and anyone who knows anything about fantasy knows something about those races.
Just because the list of Races for Darkfall is Human, Elf (light and dark), Dwarf, Orc, Wolf doesnt mean that they will never add more races later in the games life. It seems that they are doing thier races correctly, with different abilities, factions, starting areas and hopefully languages and that is what i really care about.
Originally posted by Jokerkaaos Originally posted by Jsteiner I don't care if he's a troll or not - he brings up a good point. As I said, I believe that, while the lore behind 'fantasy' has always been a genre, Tolkien pretty much constructed a formula for fantasy settings that nearly all fantasy games strictly adhere to. One could argue that other Authors were similarly influental; Robert Howard (Conan), C.S. Lewis, and so forth. The genre was more diverse before the 1950's; Oz was considered a fantasy realm circa 1900, providing a watermark to compare modern fantasy settings to.
Yep, Tolkien coalesced much of western myth into literature and Robert Howard basically single-handedly invented the action-based Sword and Sorcery genre. Spot on.
And Gary Gygax codified it all into roleplaying games.
Writers and RPG designers have all pretty much just copied these guys ever since.
Edit: I tend to dismiss C. S. Lewis as more of a fantasy hack. In my view, he was mainly just writing thinly-veiled Christian propaganda for kids.
Well noone really use D&D ruleset anymore, most fantasy games make their own system.
well, personally I'm tired not only of the same ol' racial fantasy stereotype, but of fantasy settings in general; I'd like a MMO set in a true medieval setting with no flash n'bang nonsense magic (something like M&B).
Comments
I blame Tolkien.
The ultimate solution to every problem: more space marines.
*looks at post history*
*troll identified*
And the races listed for darkfall are not accurate.
*moves on*
---sig---
Click this for lulz: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/173737/page/6
DF has wolfmen also, hehe.
indeed
Alfar of Nagast , pointy eared malicous blue people ( Not dark elves!)
"No trace of kindness exists in the world of the alfar, a race whose minds were shattered and then erratically rebuilt by a cruel and insane deity. To the alfar, pleasure is derived from the suffering of others, and the only impulse that can override their urge to torture and destroy, is a marrow-seated need to please their god-king."
Mirdain of Mirendil, pointy eared sophisticated pale people that live in a forest clad homeland( Not high elves!)
"The mirdain are a sophisticated and cultured people, who tend to prefer diplomacy to warfare, and subtlety to brute force. Theirs is an empire of influence and trade, and of intelligence networks which extend like sinuous branches from their forest-clad homeland."
*checks if everything originalegg posted is true*
*realises it is, and that we're dealing with a troll*
*moves on while whistling and feeling sorry for the troll*
I don't care if he's a troll or not - he brings up a good point. As I said, I believe that, while the lore behind 'fantasy' has always been a genre, Tolkien pretty much constructed a formula for fantasy settings that nearly all fantasy games strictly adhere to. One could argue that other Authors were similarly influental; Robert Howard (Conan), C.S. Lewis, and so forth. The genre was more diverse before the 1950's; Oz was considered a fantasy realm circa 1900, providing a watermark to compare modern fantasy settings to.
The ultimate solution to every problem: more space marines.
I wouldn't consider myself a troll since I plan on playing both games. I'm just wondering if anyone else is as tired of the "staple races" as I am.
The problem is that people would miss those races if they weren't there.
*looks at originalegg knowing that he would be here given its a darkfall post*
*realizes that originalegg is the troll and walks away*
*looks at his feet* OOOO a shiny quarter!!!!
*totally forgot why he wrote this post in the first place for he realized that Originalegg isnt that important to waste anymore time on*
*moves on*
lol someone has a crush on me
(also check your pms - call me a troll as you want...but the people i call trolls get their threads locked and usually end up getting banned. 3 locked and 2 banned today gg)
edit: and yea there is a point to the op, but they way he presented it with conveiniently forgeting what darkfall's races are is not the way to start a thread if you want a serious discussion. A wolfman-esque race is definitely a little different. Wether the qualities of some of the other races are similar to say dark or high elves...they have made the effort to differentiate them so they really arent just using the same old. its a fantasy genre, get use to it.
---sig---
Click this for lulz: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/173737/page/6
Yep, Tolkien coalesced much of western myth into literature and Robert Howard basically single-handedly invented the action-based Sword and Sorcery genre. Spot on.
And Gary Gygax codified it all into roleplaying games.
Writers and RPG designers have all pretty much just copied these guys ever since.
Edit: I tend to dismiss C. S. Lewis as more of a fantasy hack. In my view, he was mainly just writing thinly-veiled Christian propaganda for kids.
I didn't forget the races in darkfall, I just didn't mention the wolf-man race, or the same "vulmane" race in vanguard. Though I've only seen it in vanguard so I would say the idea is still fresh. Still, that's the only unique race in darkfall. Slapping a new name on some elves isn't going to change much for me. As far as "its a fantasy genre, get use to it.", I can think of about fifty other usable fantasy races off the top of my head. While they can't remove anything from the standard package as someone might go on a killing spree because they can't play a dwarf. I think for every staple race they have they should have at least one original one. Daoc managed to do it.
Its no secret we all are pretty bored with those races. But there a few MMOs that tryed something else, Saga of Ryzom for example.
And i still thinks that most players choose human after all, and that they have in Darkfall.
Someone actually started a thread that began with the intent of humor, and others continued that intent?! Wow, these forums are making a change for the better!
Yes, the standard races in MMOs are beginning to be "BLAH" but they have been expanded and changed before. Just learn to live with it like the rest of us have...Even though elves are happy tree-huggers and dwarves fart, far too often...
-------------------------------
It's honestly like everyone logs onto WoW, and games like WoW, just to masturbate. Everyone plays by themselves, and when they don't, they get what they want and get off.
-------------------------------
Originally posted by atziluth...
Ah yes when the unreasonable are faced with reason they must resort to personal attacks...When you are ready to move up from the kids table you can talk with the grown ups.
I think the reason they have the same types of races in fantasy games is because they are almost human so it allows you to identify with your character. If you could play a giant talking lobster or something like that I bet it wouldn't be a very popular choice.
They could make more effort to invent some other bipedal nearly human type races like the squid faces in wow but I guess people just want what they already know.
No
The forums must be pretty jaded if all valid points/criticism levied at not only DF, but most contemporaneous fantasy MMOs (add EQ2 and to some extent WoW to the mix) are considered trolling. He didn't mention all of DF's races, but he also didn't mention all the races in Vanguard, as they weren't relevant to his point. You can't deny what he said at face value, even if you don't agree with his opinion. He's not posting it to bait, anger or create controversy, at least the OP didn't convey that intention. I'm starting to believe that some people around here just use troll and "person whose opinions and views I disagree with" interchangeably.
On the topic at hand: Personally I'm not really tired of those races, but I honestly would like to see more exotic ones. There was a project I followed that promised, among many other features, a myriad of playable races, including dragons, gryphons, dopplegangers, etc. And the mechanics behind some of them, while incredibly impractical, seemed interesting. In the end it just ended up being vaporware, not to my surprise, but I'd really like to see stuff like implemented in a game, albeit toned down for reality.
No
Are you being serious Aragon? As much as I hear the talk of generic MMO's being thrown around. I would have thought you'd be one of the people, against staple races. Please note I am not saying Darkfall has staple races. My comment was in reference to fantasy MMO's in general.
Very interesting, even now you still manage to throw curve balls, Aragon.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
Well, Warhammer FB has never made any intention to dismiss the fact that they use the "staple races" as their bread and butter. In fact their diversity tends toward the "evil" races, in that they have Dark Elves, but they also have (or used to) Chaos Dwarves, Chaos Daemons, Beastmen, Lizardmen, Skaven (Ratmen), Undead, Chaos (Basicly Norsemen), and recently added Ogres (which arn't exaclty "evil" but more neutral in the common sense of the term.)
The "Good" Races have a little diversity, but humans are split into two "races" The Empire, basically Teutonic based, and the Bretonnians, Crusader based on the French. Then there are the Wood Elves, which are mentioned by Tolkien as well.
Most of the "Staple" races in Fantasy based MMO's are going to be led by these 5 races, and if you ever played Ultima 1-3 before Ultima Online, these races were a part of those games as well. This isn't new to MMO games. It's not new to Video Games, it's been around for over Fifty years, so to say something like, "here we go again." or "I'm tired of these." is just the youthful generation's way of saying, "I want something else." without actually producing anything themself.
Look, if you want something new, invent it. Otherwise, stop complaining about something because it exists.
Darkfall did create the werewolf like race, but are they the first to do this? well not if you think about it. But at least they're including something "new" for all you people who want to say, "Stop doing the same thing over again."
Yes, I love the "Staple" races, and I like something new too. But hell even Star Trek had Humans and Elves! (Yea, Vulcans are Elves and Romulans are Dark Elves, deal with it.)
Races are actually very accurate. I just went to the site. Looked at the races, and saw the same exact thing, but with night elf and high elf renamed. Oh and theres a wolfman, nice. Also read your other rabid aggressively condescending posts as painful as that was, where you would lay out what you like to call "troll bait" and wait for anyone to question your insane rambling about "sandboxes". Here someone points out that fantasy games are falling into a redundant pattern and you pounce with your inquisition as if you were handed a divine right to silence anyone who doesn't immediately agree with you. Your actually proud of being a low rent narc on an internet forum, its pitiful. The sole intention of a forum is to promote discussion, your post history is raving fanboism for darkfall. Granted I think it has potential, but its mildly insane to assume that its just going to be good, based on a few screenshots of elves and some youtube videos of a dev saying "its not gonna be like wow" coincidently what every other game post wow has said. Your post about having saved 50 bucks on aoc is just a sad attempt to anger already disenfranchised aoc players, your a hypocrite, a loser, and a blight on civilization. Ahem, that being said toilken races are not revolutionary, capture the flag is warcraft thievery , no matter what you call the flag. And fantasy in definition is not limited to any structured formula. Dwarves and elves are just getting boring , they both don't exist, which means at some point some guy said, uhh this should be a fantasy race. SO why cant they perform this ritual once again and come up with something original. Lucas came up with wookiees on the toilet , these guys just need to atempt to invent...
Darkfall can name them what they want, but they are still High Elf, Dark Elf, Human, Dwarf and Orc.
But, these are the staple of pretty much every Fantasy game, book, whatever for a very long time. People really would miss them if they werent there. I often see people complaining about Humans being in Fantasy games but in reality Human is usually one of the highest played races.
I like it when something different is thrown in like Lizardmen , Frogmen, Trolls, Ogres, Wolfmen, Undead, etc etc. But even when those newer races are thrown in you will still see Elves (Dark and Light) , Humans and Dwarves being played more then them in alot of cases. They are familiar and anyone who knows anything about fantasy knows something about those races.
Just because the list of Races for Darkfall is Human, Elf (light and dark), Dwarf, Orc, Wolf doesnt mean that they will never add more races later in the games life. It seems that they are doing thier races correctly, with different abilities, factions, starting areas and hopefully languages and that is what i really care about.
Yep, Tolkien coalesced much of western myth into literature and Robert Howard basically single-handedly invented the action-based Sword and Sorcery genre. Spot on.
And Gary Gygax codified it all into roleplaying games.
Writers and RPG designers have all pretty much just copied these guys ever since.
Edit: I tend to dismiss C. S. Lewis as more of a fantasy hack. In my view, he was mainly just writing thinly-veiled Christian propaganda for kids.
Well noone really use D&D ruleset anymore, most fantasy games make their own system.
Khael[SUN]
SUN - peekayin since pong
Webdeveloper on:
http://www.guildofsun.com
http://www.bloodmonarchy.com
For the record, Vanguard has like... hmm 16+ races? You mentioned none of the others. Good job at being a troll.
Also, this is just typical of fantasy, like others said, blame Tolkien for being such a genius and trend setter.
Darkfall Travelogues!
well, personally I'm tired not only of the same ol' racial fantasy stereotype, but of fantasy settings in general; I'd like a MMO set in a true medieval setting with no flash n'bang nonsense magic (something like M&B).
Just because something is called an Elf doesn't eman it is an Elf. It's more the genre thats an issue.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel