If a game keeps you playing, its doing something BETTER than the game that bores you in 10 minutes. How artistic it appears is meaningless. How it keeps you playing is meaningless. What it looks like is meaningless. If you keep playing, its FUN or entertaining and if its fun, its doing exactly what its designed to do. I guess some games are designed to be art. Luckily, I can't enjoy just playing art. I enjoy playing fun games.
10/10...
Saying you want to design a game to be fun and actually doing it are two completely different things. I don't think people realize how difficult it is to design and make a game, let alone maintaining and balancing it.
If a game keeps you playing, its doing something BETTER than the game that bores you in 10 minutes. How artistic it appears is meaningless. How it keeps you playing is meaningless. What it looks like is meaningless. If you keep playing, its FUN or entertaining and if its fun, its doing exactly what its designed to do. I guess some games are designed to be art. Luckily, I can't enjoy just playing art. I enjoy playing fun games.
10/10...
Saying you want to design a game to be fun and actually doing it are two completely different things. I don't think people realize how difficult it is to design and make a game, let alone maintaining and balancing.
You are correct my son. People tell me all the time that they can do my job better than me. They tell me they could be the King. But everytime they put on the crown and step up to the plate to hit the ball...they always miss, they always strike out. Afterwards they tell me they had no idea how difficult it was to be the king. They tell me they had no idea how hard my job was. They give me back my crown and weep at my feet, I console them, I tell them its okay. You'll have your chance to shine someday I tell them. You will have your chance to glow. In the meantime, I suggest you start paying you dues, so when the time comes to shine, you will shine, and you will shine as bright as the brightest star in the galaxy.
So an indie developer of a game with limited appeal, based around 1 creative gimmick, an art style I found more odd than pretty and some rather lousy old school platforming elements thinks WOW has problems? /golf clap I applaud him for making Braid, but not for his soapbox. Some people need to keep tjheir mouths shut. Its like when Bruce Springstein or U2 start going off on the WAR and the evil USA, when they should just shut up and sing...its also ironic that the country they revile lets them sing in the 1st place;) He sounds like a hippie making fun of the ignorant masses and consumerism. He can continue to make "artistic" games and I can continue not buying them, because IMO, Braid isn't worth the money and WOW, COD4 and Crysis are.
I dont see anything wrong with giving his own opinions.. we are living in an open society no?
i dont know anything about U2 or what not going on about the war but your next statement disturbs me..you say that its ironic that the country they revile lets them sing in the first place.. just to be sure ITS THE united states we are talking about yes? then I believe that United States is supposedly the "land of the free" and it is widely known for its freedom of speech and the likes.. so whats so ironic about a man or grp in making use of his rights? to expect a country to not allow this kinda song or speech that makes them look bad is a totalitarian regime..
Originally posted by KingCarebear Originally posted by Vegetta IM no WOW fan by any means but that guy is just a overblown treehugger HE strikes me as the same sort of person that would protest a toy store for selling violent toys... His big beef is games should be art and have a message tied in to teach morale fibre..yadda yadda yadda... Art is subjective and really boils down to the users perception - not the perception of a liberal dbag...
Vegetta, my son, you are a wise little rabbit. A wise little rabbit indeed. Tell me my sayain child, how is your family? How is Bulma doing? Is she well? Do you still love her? What about Trunks? How is he doing these days? And how about little Bra, is she growing up well, has she become a strong young lady? From reading your post, I see you still have the fire in your heart. You are still the baddest man in the game. Keep doing what you do my child, keep standing strong. KingCarebear Lord of the DragonBalls
lol all i can say is omgwtfbbq seriously get over yourself - nobody cares that some tree huger is mad because wow makes people game like asshats or that mmos are ruining art, morality and are socially bankrupt...
So an indie developer of a game with limited appeal, based around 1 creative gimmick, an art style I found more odd than pretty and some rather lousy old school platforming elements thinks WOW has problems? /golf clap I applaud him for making Braid, but not for his soapbox. Some people need to keep tjheir mouths shut. Its like when Bruce Springstein or U2 start going off on the WAR and the evil USA, when they should just shut up and sing...its also ironic that the country they revile lets them sing in the 1st place;) He sounds like a hippie making fun of the ignorant masses and consumerism. He can continue to make "artistic" games and I can continue not buying them, because IMO, Braid isn't worth the money and WOW, COD4 and Crysis are.
I dont see anything wrong with giving his own opinions.. we are living in an open society no?
i dont know anything about U2 or what not going on about the war but your next statement disturbs me..you say that its ironic that the country they revile lets them sing in the first place.. just to be sure ITS THE united states we are talking about yes? then I believe that United States is supposedly the "land of the free" and it is widely known for its freedom of speech and the likes.. so whats so ironic about a man or grp in making use of his rights? to expect a country to not allow this kinda song or speech that makes them look bad is a totalitarian regime..
Excellent rebuttle my child, an excellent rebuttle indeed. Joser my boy, what is your response?
IM no WOW fan by any means but that guy is just a overblown treehugger
HE strikes me as the same sort of person that would protest a toy store for selling violent toys...
His big beef is games should be art and have a message tied in to teach morale fibre..yadda yadda yadda...
Art is subjective and really boils down to the users perception - not the perception of a liberal dbag...
Vegetta, my son, you are a wise little rabbit. A wise little rabbit indeed. Tell me my sayain child, how is your family? How is Bulma doing? Is she well? Do you still love her? What about Trunks? How is he doing these days? And how about little Bra, is she growing up well, has she become a strong young lady?
From reading your post, I see you still have the fire in your heart. You are still the baddest man in the game. Keep doing what you do my child, keep standing strong.
KingCarebear
Lord of the DragonBalls
lol all i can say is omgwtfbbq seriously get over yourself - nobody cares that some tree huger is mad because wow makes people game like asshats or that mmos are ruining art, morality and are socially bankrupt...
My child, I believe you are mistaken, there are people in this world who do care about MMO's and their affect on society as a whole. There are people, like Mr. Blow, who want to save the world one game at a time. What is so distasteful about hugging trees my young little pup? On the surface you may be laughing, but deep down your crying boy, you're crying for affection, you're crying for love, you're crying for Braid. You are crying for a hug, and finally, you are crying for a Blow.
Btw, how many of of u, people, asked yourself a question - Wth is Braid
Braid is logic/platformer with probably the only thing new to genre - Implementation of Blow's own view of time . There're decent music and visuals but those are not from the art of gamecraft. THAT'S IT!
IF that man ever creates an mmo with many interesting but ballanced classes, without artificaly prolonged gameplay , but still long enough to have a reason to study that game , form clan, call friends, make new friends & stuff, then I'll say "WOW! That puppy had finaly grown enouth to be barking at an elephant!", but that's just as possible as Care-for-bear, the Lord of nonsense and summoner of stoping irritating the hell out of me, while still posting in the same manner he does .
And for now, there only two possible reasons for Blow's words:
1. Wind blows inside Blow's head...
2. Blow's trying to make a name and market his Braid.
And while it works quite well, I'll never respect a human who's gaining attention this way.
Now a bit on what he's saying - If it were for just "carrot on a stick", it would be possible to make an mmorpg with let's say 3 classes, 99 levels, automatic stat rising and skill gaining, and one set of equipment per tier (in other words enough attributes to be called and rpg),no trace of decent gameplay at all, no plot elements whatsoever and nice sound & visuals (which Blow uses as well), and gain money with it.
On side note i've seen 1-2 men made non-comercials better that that (single ofcause,1-2 men can't run a server), so not much work is needed. Question - Why there're no such mmorpgs? Is it hard to spend a day or two coding this junk? No! It's damn easy, but noone would play that. Why? The answer is ... [drumbeat] ... Gameplay! ... Duh...
The reason there no breathtaking innovative mmos is commerce. It's easy for a tallented Artist to draw with soul, it's easy for a tallented author write a novel , it's not hard for an asshole-for-mouth-and-guess-what-for-head to implement his view of time into a puzzle either.
Now go ahead and try to code an AI capable for implementing and changing strategy for combat system not yet studied, or a world that lives it's own life, or an item system able to support vast crafting/inventing... a list can go on and on, just ask gamers what they want from mmo and u'll get a "to do" list worthy of god's attention, and impossible for others . Even an average mmo of our time takes lots of money to be made, and making a brakethrough will take even more, and in the end u'll find out that some gamers don't like your setting, others don't like your pvp, third group want differnt trading sistem, fourth don't like your visuals, fifth don't like your subcription type... so you've ruined your company by making a high budget game that not every gamer liked.
So devs gave up and are making "pop", cause that's what sells . Only few are relatively succesfull with their brave experiments = . And Blow is not one of them=.
Oh, I almost forgot this topic here is for , so let's not get to much... Umm... So... somebody blow up that Blow guy already! - here, is that what u expected when u started this topic?
P.S. Don't call me your child, u'll ignite a fuse leading to something u don't normaly want to blow up...I can be quite a when , and the only thing holding me back in such case is that i don't want a .
Btw, how many of of u, people, asked yourself a question - Wth is Braid Braid is logic/platformer with probably the only thing new to genre - Implementation of Blow's own view of time . There're decent music and visuals but those are not from the art of gamecraft. THAT'S IT! IF that man ever creates an mmo with many interesting but ballanced classes, without artificaly prolonged gameplay , but still long enough to have a reason to study that game , form clan, call friends, make new friends & stuff, then I'll say "WOW! That puppy had finaly grown enouth to be barking at an elephant!", but that's just as possible as Care-for-bear, the Lord of nonsense and summoner of stoping irritating the hell out of me, while still posting in the same manner he does . And for now, there only two possible reasons for Blow's words: 1. Wind blows inside Blow's head... 2. Blow's trying to make a name and market his Braid. And while it works quite well, I'll never respect a human who's gaining attention this way. Now a bit on what he's saying - If it were for just "carrot on a stick", it would be possible to make an mmorpg with let's say 3 classes, 99 levels, automatic stat rising and skill gaining, and one set of equipment per tier (in other words enough attributes to be called and rpg),no trace of decent gameplay at all, no plot elements whatsoever and nice sound & visuals (which Blow uses as well), and gain money with it. On side note i've seen 1-2 men made non-comercials better that that (single ofcause,1-2 men can't run a server), so not much work is needed. Question - Why there're no such mmorpgs? Is it hard to spend a day or two coding this junk? No! It's damn easy, but noone would play that. Why? The answer is ... [drumbeat] ... Gameplay! ... Duh... The reason there no breathtaking innovative mmos is commerce. It's easy for a tallented Artist to draw with soul, it's easy for a tallented author write a novel , it's not hard for an asshole-for-mouth-and-guess-what-for-head to implement his view of time into a puzzle either. Now go ahead and try to code an AI capable for implementing and changing strategy for combat system not yet studied, or a world that lives it's own life, or an item system able to support vast crafting/inventing... a list can go on and on, just ask gamers what they want from mmo and u'll get a "to do" list worthy of god's attention, and impossible for others . Even an average mmo of our time takes lots of money to be made, and making a brakethrough will take even more, and in the end u'll find out that some gamers don't like your setting, others don't like your pvp, third group want differnt trading sistem, fourth don't like your visuals, fifth don't like your subcription type... so you've ruined your company by making a high budget game that not every gamer liked. So devs gave up and are making "pop", cause that's what sells . Only few are relatively succesfull with their brave experiments = . And Blow is not one of them=. Oh, I almost forgot this topic here is for , so let's not get to much... Umm... So... somebody blow up that Blow guy already! - here, is that what u expected when u started this topic? P.S. Don't call me your child, u'll ignite a fuse leading to something u don't normaly want to blow up...I can be quite a when , and the only thing holding me back in such case is that i don't want a .
Reianor my boy, I love you. I love your pretty pictures. And I love you darling colors. What you wrote was extremely entertaining. I loved it. I really did. I always will. I am sorry I am annoying you my boy, but I just can't help it, I just can' t help being myself, I just can't help being the King.
Maybe someday you will learn to love me the same way I love Braid. Right now you love WoW and I completely understand your love for the game. As you stated so eloquently and colorfully, the game does what it is suppose to do, it entertains you(and others) and that is all that matters. It doesn't matter if it is devoid of art or emotion. It doesn't matter if all it offers is a carrot on a stick. The game is making you happy and there is nothing Mr. Blow or anyone else can do about it....YET.
I'm sure in time you and others will change your tune. But in the meantime, I believe I am content with letting you all sing your tune of tunes. You all deserve to be happy. You deserve to be glad. And I would never in my life want to make you mad.
You really showed me something today Mr. Reianor. You really made your papa proud. Keep dancing my boy, keep dancing and singing your song!!!
Most of the "hardcore" that ONLY play games online don't have any friends in real life
Erm you do know part of the reason WoW is popular is because of it's 'recruit a friend' scheme, its clever marketing encouraging friends to play together. I really doubt many hardcore players lack friends, that is just being bigoted without a shred of evidence.
I edited for emphasis since you seem to have been ignoring the qualifying clause of that statement. Be honest, Which do you enjoy more?:
1) playing Halo split-screen with friends.
2) playing Halo over Xbox Live.
I'm betting that most of you are going to pick door number one. The rest of you are probably playing locked games with people that you already know in real life.
Judging from the behavior of most players in public games, I'm drawing the conclusion that that no one in their right mind would be able stay within 50 feet of these people without submitting to the primal urge to kick the little bastards directly in the balls. Of course, this isn't just an XBox Live thing as any CS:S player or Barrens chat veteran can attest.
So in conclusion, people that ONLY play games online are incapable of having any kind of real life social network due to being complete douche bags.
Show just how much u know about gaming... There was one HUGE reason why FPS didn't make it into PSX favored genre - mp problems. Split screen is second worse implementaition type of mp I've ever seen and can remember atm (1st being "limited player options" type like in some old sega game where one player was moving a robot and the other was shooting based on that same robot's location and direction (all in overtop view)). Every single console/pc game with mp worth mentioning had some way off leting people play without dividing or loosing parts of the screen. (like hot seat or "single screen"). Well, there're probably a few exeptions, where single screen is not that important, but those definitly aren't shooters. I tryed split screens many times in many games - no self respecting gamer would use those when there's a network alternative avaliable for the same game.
Who the fuck are you to set the standard of what constitutes a "self respecting gamer?" You're like some fratboy asshole that boldly states how only the desperate date fat chicks. Guess What? Some people dig fat chicks and some people don't have issues with split screens. We've had TVs and computer monitors larger than 32" for a long time now and at 720p I don't think anyone is squinting at the screen to see what's going on.
YOU have an issue with split screen games, not everyone. To be completely honest, I don't think anyone would have remembered Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Twisted Metal, Wipeout or Mario Kart if they had been online only. Yeah, I know that the interweb was a new-fangled thingamabob back then, but hypothetically speaking...
Ever had a decent mmorpg clan? I guess not... Nor did u get in a decent party... Yes, there are assholes playing mmos, there're assholes "showing off" their "assholeness" by throwing "lol! nOOb!" at unsuspecting victims, there're even assholes accusing online players of being assholes right here in this topic :P , but there are normal players as well, and the fact that they don't prove their existence on world chats over and over like assholes do, doesn't mean they don't exist. And the fact that u're offending gamers just cause they play over net, only shows that u're not far from those assholes.
ooooooo! the redundant rebuttal that doesn't actually cancel out the original statement! I actually just write this off as you taking a personal affront to my comments which says more about you than me.
The ones who's behavoir u disapprove, behave so out of frustration caused by real life. And here u are acting as an asshole out of frustration caused by them. And u're at least as guilty of their behavior as those who u're accusing along with them are guilty of yours. So how come u think u're any better?
Are games an escape from real life or an extension of real life? That's an important question and the primary separation point from "hardcore" gamers and the rest of humanity. I'm not frustrated anymore. I abandoned online gaming and have been quite a bit happier ever since.
Also u have a funny definition there about only plaing games online... just how far that "only" stretches? That's an easy way to offend people and then "innocently" state "I only meant people who play online 24 hours a day, and didn't mean those who do [whatever was mentionted in response]."
I mean people that won't play a game unless it is played online. People who won't play single-player, local co-op, local MP and won't touch a game that doesn't offer online play and / or ignore any offline features of a game. Does that clarify?
I just want you to know... I didn't intend to respond to this...
I was just going to walk away and get back to my life...
I'm not strong enough to resist the urge to flame.... I'm sorry...
Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe So in conclusion, people that ONLY play games online are incapable of having any kind of real life social network due to being complete douche bags.
Yeah, cause we all know having social disorders, having troubles making new firends, or being overly nervous around new people has nothing to do with it...nope, they're just douchebags according to you.
Um... Am I the only person here that thinks the term "social disorder" sounds like a politically correct way of saying "potential serial rapist?"
Seriously, acting like an asshole in public is still acting like an asshole in public. BTW, the internet is a public place.
Originally posted by KingCarebear Thank you for your kind words my son. I would be more inclined to write more, but as you know, I am the King of this land. I am the Carebear. I must do my job to ensure there is peace and harmony on this forum and all the forums. Once my son has been released from his prison of prisons, he shall play the role of writer, and write his song of songs. KingCarebear Lord of the Breast
Pass me the waste basket, I have to throw up. King Carebear just has that effect on me.
Look, I have played EQ 2 ever since launch, and have yet to have any character hit level cap. I feel no Pavlovian system of rewards that keep me ringing the bell.
I come home from work sometimes and just want to kill something, so I log in, join a group, and go lay waste to the land for about an hour or two. Until I've blown off steam and can actually be calm and rational with the fam.
On weekends the fam sleeps late, I am an early riser. So I cool my heals either crafting, or, if I'm more awake and bored, I go out gathering, trying to work my toon into deep shit where every mob is orange and red just to see if I can gather and not get killed.
Rather than run their treadmill, I set my own goals and objectives. You have no idea how many times I see a group advertise for a certain dungeon which I need, and I pass it by because it doesn't fit in with what I feel like doing. So I don't kill the mob boss today, so what. He'll was there yesterday, he'll be there tomorrow, the next day, the next week, the next month, the next year. No hurry. There's always another group, and always another boss to slay.
Son, if I make you that sick I suggest you come to my room so I can give ya some of my carebear medicine. Than, after you have taken your medicine we can play a game of Braid. Than, after we finish playing you and I can get on our knees and pray to the good lord for making such a great game. Than, after we finish praying to the good lord for making such a great game we can go to Jonathan Blow's house and blow Jonathan Blow.....
I'm kidding sonny, daddy's only kidding. I would never allow you to do something so vile and vulgar.
KingCarebear
Lord of the Flowers
Uhhh................................................ummm.....ya I'm not even going to bother saying something. I don't need any hugs or kisses from you!
Originally posted by KingCarebear Thank you for your kind words my son. I would be more inclined to write more, but as you know, I am the King of this land. I am the Carebear. I must do my job to ensure there is peace and harmony on this forum and all the forums. Once my son has been released from his prison of prisons, he shall play the role of writer, and write his song of songs. KingCarebear Lord of the Breast
Pass me the waste basket, I have to throw up. King Carebear just has that effect on me.
Look, I have played EQ 2 ever since launch, and have yet to have any character hit level cap. I feel no Pavlovian system of rewards that keep me ringing the bell.
I come home from work sometimes and just want to kill something, so I log in, join a group, and go lay waste to the land for about an hour or two. Until I've blown off steam and can actually be calm and rational with the fam.
On weekends the fam sleeps late, I am an early riser. So I cool my heals either crafting, or, if I'm more awake and bored, I go out gathering, trying to work my toon into deep shit where every mob is orange and red just to see if I can gather and not get killed.
Rather than run their treadmill, I set my own goals and objectives. You have no idea how many times I see a group advertise for a certain dungeon which I need, and I pass it by because it doesn't fit in with what I feel like doing. So I don't kill the mob boss today, so what. He'll was there yesterday, he'll be there tomorrow, the next day, the next week, the next month, the next year. No hurry. There's always another group, and always another boss to slay.
Son, if I make you that sick I suggest you come to my room so I can give ya some of my carebear medicine. Than, after you have taken your medicine we can play a game of Braid. Than, after we finish playing you and I can get on our knees and pray to the good lord for making such a great game. Than, after we finish praying to the good lord for making such a great game we can go to Jonathan Blow's house and blow Jonathan Blow.....
I'm kidding sonny, daddy's only kidding. I would never allow you to do something so vile and vulgar.
KingCarebear
Lord of the Flowers
Uhhh................................................ummm.....ya I'm not even going to bother saying something. I don't need any hugs or kisses from you!
Oh son, I think you are mistaken, I think you do need my hugs. I think you do need my kisses. You've got the look of the devil. You've got the face of hell.
First of all, it's not about WoW - it was merely cited, probably because it's the one with the most notoriety.
Parents must adapt to society's changes - games are not a trend anymore they have become part of our lives. Now those games have elements of addiction - unless the law makes devs create their games in a particular way, they're going to keep following good old capitalism, even if it involveshooking their players to their virtual worlds.
A broader discussion is needed. Meanwhile, parents, "deal".
Btw, how many of of u, people, asked yourself a question - Wth is Braid Braid is logic/platformer with probably the only thing new to genre - Implementation of Blow's own view of time . There're decent music and visuals but those are not from the art of gamecraft. THAT'S IT! IF that man ever creates an mmo with many interesting but ballanced classes, without artificaly prolonged gameplay , but still long enough to have a reason to study that game , form clan, call friends, make new friends & stuff, then I'll say "WOW! That puppy had finaly grown enouth to be barking at an elephant!", but that's just as possible as Care-for-bear, the Lord of nonsense and summoner of stoping irritating the hell out of me, while still posting in the same manner he does . And for now, there only two possible reasons for Blow's words: 1. Wind blows inside Blow's head... 2. Blow's trying to make a name and market his Braid. And while it works quite well, I'll never respect a human who's gaining attention this way. Now a bit on what he's saying - If it were for just "carrot on a stick", it would be possible to make an mmorpg with let's say 3 classes, 99 levels, automatic stat rising and skill gaining, and one set of equipment per tier (in other words enough attributes to be called and rpg),no trace of decent gameplay at all, no plot elements whatsoever and nice sound & visuals (which Blow uses as well), and gain money with it. On side note i've seen 1-2 men made non-comercials better that that (single ofcause,1-2 men can't run a server), so not much work is needed. Question - Why there're no such mmorpgs? Is it hard to spend a day or two coding this junk? No! It's damn easy, but noone would play that. Why? The answer is ... [drumbeat] ... Gameplay! ... Duh... The reason there no breathtaking innovative mmos is commerce. It's easy for a tallented Artist to draw with soul, it's easy for a tallented author write a novel , it's not hard for an asshole-for-mouth-and-guess-what-for-head to implement his view of time into a puzzle either. Now go ahead and try to code an AI capable for implementing and changing strategy for combat system not yet studied, or a world that lives it's own life, or an item system able to support vast crafting/inventing... a list can go on and on, just ask gamers what they want from mmo and u'll get a "to do" list worthy of god's attention, and impossible for others . Even an average mmo of our time takes lots of money to be made, and making a brakethrough will take even more, and in the end u'll find out that some gamers don't like your setting, others don't like your pvp, third group want differnt trading sistem, fourth don't like your visuals, fifth don't like your subcription type... so you've ruined your company by making a high budget game that not every gamer liked. So devs gave up and are making "pop", cause that's what sells . Only few are relatively succesfull with their brave experiments = . And Blow is not one of them=. Oh, I almost forgot this topic here is for , so let's not get to much... Umm... So... somebody blow up that Blow guy already! - here, is that what u expected when u started this topic? P.S. Don't call me your child, u'll ignite a fuse leading to something u don't normaly want to blow up...I can be quite a when , and the only thing holding me back in such case is that i don't want a .
Reianor my boy, I love you. I love your pretty pictures. And I love you darling colors. What you wrote was extremely entertaining. I loved it. I really did. I always will. I am sorry I am annoying you my boy, but I just can't help it, I just can' t help being myself, I just can't help being the King.
Maybe someday you will learn to love me the same way I love Braid. Right now you love WoW and I completely understand your love for the game. As you stated so eloquently and colorfully, the game does what it is suppose to do, it entertains you(and others) and that is all that matters. It doesn't matter if it is devoid of art or emotion. It doesn't matter if all it offers is a carrot on a stick. The game is making you happy and there is nothing Mr. Blow or anyone else can do about it....YET.
I'm sure in time you and others will change your tune. But in the meantime, I believe I am content with letting you all sing your tune of tunes. You all deserve to be happy. You deserve to be glad. And I would never in my life want to make you mad.
You really showed me something today Mr. Reianor. You really made your papa proud. Keep dancing my boy, keep dancing and singing your song!!!
KingCarebear
Lord of the Worlds
Relaxing... taking a deep breath... breathing out a stream of fire in Carebear's direction...
I wasn't kidding about a fuse...
But I'll try to stay calm... for now...
And yes I know u can't help annoying people :P
The day I "learn to love" "care from bear" is the day I'll march to the closest madhose on my own, and I realy hope that day would never come... There's a phrase in Russia "Bear service" which means "help" no one asked for, that eventualy lead to horrible consequence. That's just the kind of "care" u're providing. :P
Well, "gramps", I dunno how u can "understand my love for WoW" when I'm not even playing it... (nor any other mmo atm), nor do I understand why u adore that blow guy and his ingenious brain ... erm... I mean braid of cause... (omg! how could I mix those two thing... they have so little in common... wait, do they have anything in common???... oh, yes... spelling...) But there's one thing u're right about - happyness is when one thinks he's happy. And no blow in the head is gonna change that truth. So, if u love playing a game which takes 1 man who can code + 1 man who can compose + 1 man who can draw(and those don't nessesary have to be tallented people) + 1 man who has a messed up view of time and enough guts to spout foul speech on a topic he has no clue about to make and sell, then so be it, but don't expect other people to abandon what u persive as a "quest for a carrot on a stick" for something that's not even worth a @#$% on a stick, where stick is only used for delivery.
On side note - I don't sing - imho 98+% of time singing only spoils music it goes with (if the music is decent it in the first place), and I'm definitely not from those other 2-%. Nor do I dance, I don't even consider that being an art - Hard? maybe sometimes... Beautiful? Pleasant? Entertaining? Never! Well I'm not saying everyone should drop it, that's just my opinion... But what would a bear know about dancing or singing anyway...
Oh and my father doesn't even know how to launch an internet browser... Not to mention the fact that he can't initiate internet connection or even start up PC. Add here the fact that he doesn't even have a PC to begin with... So he definitely wasn't browsing mmorpg.com forums... Nor did I see him in person since my last post. So how come I made him proud all of a sudden?
And the last question for this post - What exactly did I show u?
It's no surprise to me that a person who made an indie game that has been defined as "art" would try to turn "games as art" into a selling strategy.
However, his criticism of WoW as being exploitive is true. MMORPGs are set up to delay players from reaching their goals as much as possible but still give enough incentives to prevent them from walking away. Think of the old arcade games and we'll see the same thing; give players enough of an incentive to keep feeding quarters into the machine.
I resubed to WoW because some people at work started playing it. A month ago I ran Kara with them for the 1st time. It took 7 hours and all the bosses were killed. I was the only leather wearer in group so I got a lot of the loot - I can't play WoW anymore; the spell is broken. The time it took out weighed the emotion I received getting the items, in fact, I walked away that night with a very bad headache. I knew of WoWs exploitive nature and I accepted it - most people who play WoW are aware of it; but i've lost my incentive - it was not fun.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
It's no surprise to me that a person who made an indie game that has been defined as "art" would try to turn "games as art" into a selling strategy. However, his criticism of WoW as being exploitive is true. MMORPGs are set up to delay players from reaching their goals as much as possible but still give enough incentives to prevent them from walking away. Think of the old arcade games and we'll see the same thing; give players enough of an incentive to keep feeding quarters into the machine. I resubed to WoW because some people at work started playing it. A month ago I ran Kara with them for the 1st time. It took 7 hours and all the bosses were killed. I was the only leather wearer in group so I got a lot of the loot - I can't play WoW anymore; the spell is broken. The time it took out weighed the emotion I received getting the items, in fact, I walked away that night with a very bad headache. I knew of WoWs exploitive nature and I accepted it - most people who play WoW are aware of it; but i've lost my incentive - it was not fun.
My son, what you say is true. You are wise beyond your years. I am glad you have learned from your experiences and learned from your flawed ways. You are now on the path to greatness my son. You are on your way to the promise land. I suggest you have a little talk with your brother(Reianor) and guide him to the light. Guide him to Braid.
I don't believe his ways were ever "flawed". He had fun playing a game and then didn't like it anymore or became burnt out on it. It happens with all games weather you learn something from them or not. As long as you had some fun playing the game thas what matters. That doesn't mean I don't think it would be a good idea to try and teach something useful in games, but in the end gaming is consumer driven and companies will do what makes them the most money. I played EQ for five years and I have been playing WoW for a while now off and on. I have had some fun times in both games regardless of the fact that it doesn't really do anything for me other then to explore a fake world and kill some fake creatures.
It's no surprise to me that a person who made an indie game that has been defined as "art" would try to turn "games as art" into a selling strategy. However, his criticism of WoW as being exploitive is true. MMORPGs are set up to delay players from reaching their goals as much as possible but still give enough incentives to prevent them from walking away. Think of the old arcade games and we'll see the same thing; give players enough of an incentive to keep feeding quarters into the machine. I resubed to WoW because some people at work started playing it. A month ago I ran Kara with them for the 1st time. It took 7 hours and all the bosses were killed. I was the only leather wearer in group so I got a lot of the loot - I can't play WoW anymore; the spell is broken. The time it took out weighed the emotion I received getting the items, in fact, I walked away that night with a very bad headache. I knew of WoWs exploitive nature and I accepted it - most people who play WoW are aware of it; but i've lost my incentive - it was not fun.
My son, what you say is true. You are wise beyond your years. I am glad you have learned from your experiences and learned from your flawed ways. You are now on the path to greatness my son. You are on your way to the promise land. I suggest you have a little talk with your brother(Reianor) and guide him to the light. Guide him to Braid.
KingCarebear
Lord of the Lights
I do not own the Xbox 360 and will not quest for one as its current value, alas, mine eyes are shunned from your light. Eternal darkness! No, not simply eternal darkness, but an awareness of your light which makes the darkness darker and so I am also damned... Eternal darkness and damnation - you've brought them both to me!
You monster!
I've heard good things about Braid but it's not worth 250 dollars when I could just play:
It's no surprise to me that a person who made an indie game that has been defined as "art" would try to turn "games as art" into a selling strategy. However, his criticism of WoW as being exploitive is true. MMORPGs are set up to delay players from reaching their goals as much as possible but still give enough incentives to prevent them from walking away. Think of the old arcade games and we'll see the same thing; give players enough of an incentive to keep feeding quarters into the machine. I resubed to WoW because some people at work started playing it. A month ago I ran Kara with them for the 1st time. It took 7 hours and all the bosses were killed. I was the only leather wearer in group so I got a lot of the loot - I can't play WoW anymore; the spell is broken. The time it took out weighed the emotion I received getting the items, in fact, I walked away that night with a very bad headache. I knew of WoWs exploitive nature and I accepted it - most people who play WoW are aware of it; but i've lost my incentive - it was not fun.
My son, what you say is true. You are wise beyond your years. I am glad you have learned from your experiences and learned from your flawed ways. You are now on the path to greatness my son. You are on your way to the promise land. I suggest you have a little talk with your brother(Reianor) and guide him to the light. Guide him to Braid.
KingCarebear
Lord of the Lights
I do not own the Xbox 360 and will not quest for one as its current value, alas, mine eyes are shunned from your light. Eternal darkness! No, not simply eternal darkness, but an awareness of your light which makes the darkness darker and so I am also damned... Eternal darkness and damnation - you've brought them both to me!
You monster!
I've heard good things about Braid but it's not worth 250 dollars when I could just play:
I am sorry my son, but I believe you are mistaken. The game you call Braid is not $250(at least I don't think it is). The last I heard, the game was a mere 12 dollars and 50 cents.
If I am wrong. If it is I who is the man who is mistaken, than I shall do you the honor of eating your hat.
I don't believe his ways were ever "flawed". He had fun playing a game and then didn't like it anymore or became burnt out on it. It happens with all games weather you learn something from them or not. As long as you had some fun playing the game thas what matters. That doesn't mean I don't think it would be a good idea to try and teach something useful in games, but in the end gaming is consumer driven and companies will do what makes them the most money. I played EQ for five years and I have been playing WoW for a while now off and on. I have had some fun times in both games regardless of the fact that it doesn't really do anything for me other then to explore a fake world and kill some fake creatures.
My darling young boy. You are such a precious poster. I love your honesty and your bravery to be yourself. Someday you will see the light, and someday we shall see eye to eye. Now run along now my little soldier, go play with your toys. Go play with the boys.
Most of the "hardcore" that ONLY play games online don't have any friends in real life
Erm you do know part of the reason WoW is popular is because of it's 'recruit a friend' scheme, its clever marketing encouraging friends to play together. I really doubt many hardcore players lack friends, that is just being bigoted without a shred of evidence.
I edited for emphasis since you seem to have been ignoring the qualifying clause of that statement. Be honest, Which do you enjoy more?:
1) playing Halo split-screen with friends.
2) playing Halo over Xbox Live.
I'm betting that most of you are going to pick door number one. The rest of you are probably playing locked games with people that you already know in real life.
Judging from the behavior of most players in public games, I'm drawing the conclusion that that no one in their right mind would be able stay within 50 feet of these people without submitting to the primal urge to kick the little bastards directly in the balls. Of course, this isn't just an XBox Live thing as any CS:S player or Barrens chat veteran can attest.
So in conclusion, people that ONLY play games online are incapable of having any kind of real life social network due to being complete douche bags.
Show just how much u know about gaming... There was one HUGE reason why FPS didn't make it into PSX favored genre - mp problems. Split screen is second worse implementaition type of mp I've ever seen and can remember atm (1st being "limited player options" type like in some old sega game where one player was moving a robot and the other was shooting based on that same robot's location and direction (all in overtop view)). Every single console/pc game with mp worth mentioning had some way off leting people play without dividing or loosing parts of the screen. (like hot seat or "single screen"). Well, there're probably a few exeptions, where single screen is not that important, but those definitly aren't shooters. I tryed split screens many times in many games - no self respecting gamer would use those when there's a network alternative avaliable for the same game.
Who the fuck are you to set the standard of what constitutes a "self respecting gamer?" You're like some fratboy asshole that boldly states how only the desperate date fat chicks. Guess What? Some people dig fat chicks and some people don't have issues with split screens. We've had TVs and computer monitors larger than 32" for a long time now and at 720p I don't think anyone is squinting at the screen to see what's going on.
YOU have an issue with split screen games, not everyone. To be completely honest, I don't think anyone would have remembered Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Twisted Metal, Wipeout or Mario Kart if they had been online only. Yeah, I know that the interweb was a new-fangled thingamabob back then, but hypothetically speaking...
Ever had a decent mmorpg clan? I guess not... Nor did u get in a decent party... Yes, there are assholes playing mmos, there're assholes "showing off" their "assholeness" by throwing "lol! nOOb!" at unsuspecting victims, there're even assholes accusing online players of being assholes right here in this topic :P , but there are normal players as well, and the fact that they don't prove their existence on world chats over and over like assholes do, doesn't mean they don't exist. And the fact that u're offending gamers just cause they play over net, only shows that u're not far from those assholes.
ooooooo! the redundant rebuttal that doesn't actually cancel out the original statement! I actually just write this off as you taking a personal affront to my comments which says more about you than me.
The ones who's behavoir u disapprove, behave so out of frustration caused by real life. And here u are acting as an asshole out of frustration caused by them. And u're at least as guilty of their behavior as those who u're accusing along with them are guilty of yours. So how come u think u're any better?
Are games an escape from real life or an extension of real life? That's an important question and the primary separation point from "hardcore" gamers and the rest of humanity. I'm not frustrated anymore. I abandoned online gaming and have been quite a bit happier ever since.
Also u have a funny definition there about only plaing games online... just how far that "only" stretches? That's an easy way to offend people and then "innocently" state "I only meant people who play online 24 hours a day, and didn't mean those who do [whatever was mentionted in response]."
I mean people that won't play a game unless it is played online. People who won't play single-player, local co-op, local MP and won't touch a game that doesn't offer online play and / or ignore any offline features of a game. Does that clarify?
I just want you to know... I didn't intend to respond to this...
I was just going to walk away and get back to my life...
I'm not strong enough to resist the urge to flame.... I'm sorry...
That depends on how one persives the term gamer. Basicly I persive "gamer" as someone who boot's up his [insert gaming device here] not to hang out, but to enjoy the game and do his best against it's chalenges. Now, split screen doesn't help even a bit with this. If u use split screen when u have opportunity to use any form of network (unless u're paying chess by mail with a delay... then again chess don't need split screen...) u're using it to hang out (unless u prefer playing with one half of the screen avaliable to full screen). On the other hand when something similar is happening right next to your half of the screen it's distracting. Imagine watching a movie on one part of the screen while having another movie on the other - even if u have no interest in one of them, watching the other wont be that pleasant. It doesn' matter how big is your whole screen unless your part of the screen covers your etire view range including it's "bordering" part. I guess u don't have a screen that big. So u're basicly sacrificing comfort and efficiency of playing for having your friend next to u. And u call yourself a gamer? The fact that one's visiting gym doesn't make one bodybuilder, the fact that one's singing in bathroom doesn't make one a singer. And i'm not even talking about professionals here. Being someone classified by action requires sertain level of devotion. There's a word for those who play but don't take gaming seriously - casual. And while it's being extened to "casual gamer", those words don't mach. Kinda like "old youngster"... And no, I'm not mixing "hardcore gamer" with just "gamer", those are even thurther...
Actual gamers remember Twisted Metal's mp not as an opportunity to hang out but as an opportunity to play with another human, and that (playing with another human) just as well can be done over net. I'm not stating noone prefers split screen, I'm stating that those who do, aren't gamers. Game club? maybe if talking is needed more then TS server can provide... (and even then home + net give more comfort then live talk) Split screen? Naaah...
In other words if we translate that to your comparison to to fat women, and there was a term for people who are into slim ones - I'm not calling those who aren't desperate or stating they have no self respect, they just don't fit into that term. More then that, if they're stating that preffering slim women is some kind of abnormality they just don't know much about it. Does it still look to u like I'm the one offending u?
I don't get it - u're saying that most online gamers should get a kick in...[see your own statement]... And u expect gamers to sit by and listen? Maybe I didn't make myself clear? It's not most, it's some. You know, I tend to encounter many assholes irl. How would u feel if I state - most people leading active social life are assholes blah-blah-blah... What would that say about me? That I judge many people by actions of few, and dare to take offence to those I don't even know. That's exactly how u look with your statement. But I don't run around rl entertainment establishments telling people who vist them, that most of them are assholes. And here you are, on mmo related site's forums calling most of its visitors bastards. So, "who the fuck are u" (your own phrase) to offend people u don't know?
So, great!, u are no longer frustrated, and more than that - u abandoned online gaming. May I ask what urge led you to coming to an mmo related site to offend online gamers? That frustration I mentioned, while being a sorry excuse, was still "some kind of" excuse. And, according to you, you don't have even that.
From my exp. people who offend others in online games mostly have no offline life (not in reverse though), so I think for them it's games as escapism + offence out of frustration (sorriest excuse, but most common reason nevertheless). There're still people who play games and lead a social life. Person's position on casual-hardcore "scale" imho is determined not by how much time is being spent playing, but rather how games are played, what matters for person playing, and what games he/she preffers. There're players for whom games are like competitive sport, there're those for whom it's "skill perfection+procces enjoyment" sport, others treat them like some kind of lite entertainment (this just screams "casual"), for others it's just a time sink (from my exp. those are mostly cheaters, who have nothing else to do at the time they're "playing"), for some it's extention of real life, some went as deep as to sink there, and there's probably something I missed here. There's also a question of what games, how much skill they need and how much skill a person has... umm... let's make it shorter - it's not just a question of escapism with a bit of adjustment, more than that, escapisms has probably the least to do with it. So if player calls himself "hardcore" just for spending all his time playing, and has no other reason, then he's probably just an escapist seeking to pat his wounded sence of self respect.
So, as far as i know, game escapists are people unhappy with rl, seeking shelter in virtual worlds. While they aren't "100% hardcore" they mostly aren't casual either (who can forget rl playing puzzle/barbie adventure/some other casual game?). Currently game industry, they rely so much on, is leaning towards massive "casual entertainment" production, affecting even mmos. Casuals, being used to being successfull irl, want the same success in virtual, while spending a minor portion of their time and even less effort, and keep complaining about "bad kids" offending them. And devs tend to do their bidding ("rest" systems anyone? disballanced cash shops?). So if people came to your "last resort" and try to turn it into "tourists resort" while complaining that "locals aren't friendly", how would u feel?
Let me translate that into rl. Imagine your director "hireing" someone and telling u "this is Pete, he barely had any exp. in our busyness and he's gonna work 8 times less then u, but since he gave me that nice +15 dragonslayer I'm gonna pay him more than I pay u, he'll be your boss, and if we need to turn loose some workers it's not gonna be him either", next you come to your favored cafe and find out it'll soon be turned into a game club, and when u come home you find out that your wife took kids and left, leaving a note - "sorry, you're fun and all, but i love Jack, he's lazy as hell, has the worst job imaginable, and is complete log in bed, but he's so a good at playing Wii...". While all that is as likely to happen as it is possible for a human to survive a direct hit by a tactical nuke, something like that is happening to escapists - all they hold dear in their life is being taken form them in favor of others (who perform horribly in it) because of their achievements in something escapists can't compete in. So u still expect them all to be friendly?
And about clarified description - ever seen such a gamer? Sounds more like net thing to me, than like gaming... Also the more time spend playing the more people tend to look for oponents of their level of skill, and online games are best option for that. There still SP (or rather VS PC) games enjoyable after that much playing, but people tend to become more picky in that.
There're also people trying to hide behind the net, who are just too shy and ugly (or think themselve to be) to show themselve in person. So how come those can't be the "mithical oline-only gamers"?
"I just want you to know... I didn't intend to respond to this...
I was just going to walk away and get back to my life...
I'm not strong enough to resist the urge to flame.... I'm sorry..."
Yeah, yeah... u're all white and fluffy... And u "accidently" came to mmorpg.com forums after "abandoning" online gaming and started accusing "most players in public games" of being bastards, who noone can stand... blah-blah-blah... and then a "bad gamer" "made u flame"... Well, duh! If we all here agreed with your accusations, there would have been nothing to flame...
That depends on how one persives (perceives) the term gamer. Basicly I persive "gamer" as someone who boot's up his [insert gaming device here] not to hang out, but to enjoy the game and do his best against it's chalenges. I think you need to clarify that as video gamer. Here are some quick definitions of the word game: 1 a (1): activity engaged in for diversion or amusement : play 3 a (1): a physical or mental competition conducted according to rules with the participants in direct opposition to each other (2): any activity undertaken or regarded as a contest involving rivalry, strategy, or struggle A gamer would be said to be someone that plays games. Anything from solitaire to World of Warcaft. Thing is, most games, especially multiplayer games, are social in nature. If you go to the park to play one on one basketball with whoever is there, you may intend to just play basketball, but you still end up "hanging out." Now, split screen doesn't help even a bit with this. If u use split screen when u have opportunity to use any form of network (unless u're paying chess by mail with a delay... then again chess don't need split screen...) u're using it to hang out (unless u prefer playing with one half of the screen avaliable to full screen). If you're playing a multiplayer game, you're socializing whether you're aware of it or not. And you keep implying that people that play games socially are "not gamers" or are playing games "wrong." Again, who the fuck are you to be declaring these things? Who made you the Grand Overseer of All That Is Gaming? Get over yourself already. Back to the split screen thing, There are hella number of people that don't mind. In the Navy, most shops have an XBox with Halo 2 slotted and people jump in and out of an ongoing four-player , split screen deathmatch in between various tasks. Most college dorms, where almost everyone has an internet connection, have consoles set up in common rooms with people playing split screen or local games of Halo 3, Guitar Hero, Madden, Soul Calibur 4, etc. Playing a game online, even against friends loses a considerable amount of interaction (going back to the phone sex analogy). Seriously, if you don't communicate with the other players, what's the difference between playing online and playing a really well build bot? I've done LAN parties, and they're a blast, but they're a major pain in the ass. Of course developers love networked games since it means everyone needs to buy their own copy of the software AND the hardware needed to run it. Somewhere along the line, the industry spent a lot of money to promote online gaming and the hardcore crowd swallowed the whole sales pitch. On the other hand when something similar is happening right next to your half of the screen it's distracting. Imagine watching a movie on one part of the screen while having another movie on the other - even if u have no interest in one of them, watching the other wont be that pleasant. But there isn't another movie on the rest of the screen, it's the same game. You can make the same argument about multiple monitors in the same room as well. Why don't you just admit that you don't have any friends and bow out now? There's nothing wrong with being a hermit if that's your thing. Just stop expecting everyone else that plays games to be the same way. It doesn' matter how big is your whole screen unless your part of the screen covers your etire view range including it's "bordering" part. I guess u don't have a screen that big. So u're basicly sacrificing comfort and efficiency of playing for having your friend next to u. And u call yourself a gamer? If I'm playing someone that's in the same house as me, I shouldn't have to spend twice as much to play the same damn game. It's different when your friend is all the way across town, but if you're playing with a roommate, your spouse, your kids, or just a guest, networking is a gainourmous waste of cash. The fact that one's visiting gym doesn't make one bodybuilder, the fact that one's singing in bathroom doesn't make one a singer. And i'm not even talking about professionals here. Being someone classified by action requires sertain level of devotion. There's a word for those who play but don't take gaming seriously - casual. And while it's being extened to "casual gamer", those words don't mach. Kinda like "old youngster"... And no, I'm not mixing "hardcore gamer" with just "gamer", those are even thurther... </sarcasm> WE'RE NOT WORTHYYYYYY!!!!!!! Actual gamers remember Twisted Metal's mp not as an opportunity to hang out but as an opportunity to play with another human, how is that different from "hanging out" again? and that (playing with another human) just as well can be done over net. With lag, cheaters, and offensive remarks as an added bonus huh? I'm not stating noone prefers split screen, I'm stating that those who do, aren't gamers. What was your name again?... Cause for a second I almost thought you were someone important enough to making these kinds of public announcements. Game club? maybe if talking is needed more then TS server can provide... (and even then home + net give more comfort then live talk) Split screen? Naaah... In other words if we translate that to your comparison to to fat women, and there was a term for people who are into slim ones - I'm not calling those who aren't desperate or stating they have no self respect, they just don't fit into that term. More then that, if they're stating that preffering slim women is some kind of abnormality they just don't know much about it. Does it still look to u like I'm the one offending u? It's never looked like you were offending me. It's looked like you were putting on heirs that aren't yours and never have been. If anyone's being offended here, it's you. I don't get it - u're saying that most online gamers should get a kick in...[BALLS!]... And u expect gamers to sit by and listen? Nope, I stated that asshats in public should be taken out behind the woodshed and beaten like redheaded step children. The fact that we can't use negative re-enforcement on these people is the reason they act so fucked up online. Maybe I didn't make myself clear? It's not most, it's some. You know, I tend to encounter many assholes irl. How would u feel if I state - most people leading active social life are assholes blah-blah-blah... What would that say about me? That I judge many people by actions of few, and dare to take offence to those I don't even know. Quick story: Last year I attended an offline Halo 3 tournament. I tried to get some of my friends to go but they all said the same thing, "I fucking hate those little kids on XBox Live!" I get the same kind of reply when I try to get them to attend some of the bigger LAN parties in this area. The racist, homophobic, misogynic, loudmouth is becoming a stereotype of online gamers and it didn't materialize out of thin air. That's exactly how u look with your statement. But I don't run around rl entertainment establishments telling people who vist them, that most of them are assholes. And here you are, on mmo related site's forums calling most of its visitors bastards. So, "who the fuck are u" (your own phrase) to offend people u don't know? The only people that would get offend by my first post are people that fit the description I offered. Most of the people on this site don't fit that description and won't get offended because it doesn't apply to them. So, great!, u are no longer frustrated, and more than that - u abandoned online gaming. May I ask what urge led you to coming to an mmo related site to offend online gamers? That frustration I mentioned, while being a sorry excuse, was still "some kind of" excuse. And, according to you, you don't have even that. If you look to your left, you'll notice my post count. Once upon a time, I spent quite a bit of time here. Then I played all the way through Bioshock one weekend and something snapped. I fucking hated Bioshock and as I deconstructed the why of my hate I realized that things I disliked the most were the things that hardcore gamers screamed for the most. At that point I realized that the problem with the gaming industry was hardcore gamers. I posted about it. I blogged about it. After venting, I realized that I was spending entirely too much time online, so I took a month off with no internet at all. I was much happier. I got to sleep earlier, woke up earlier, cleaned my house, lost 15 pounds, played video games more often, got reacquainted with the people around me in real life and so on. I mostly just use the internet to check my email and play games on Gametap anymore and I've been very pointedly avoiding the forums. Then I decided to see if MMORPG.com had changed at all (it hasn't) when I found this thread. Some of Blow's statements coincided with my own conclusions about what's currently wrong with the gaming industry so I thought I'd reply with my two cents and then walk away. Unfortunately, I like to fence verbally so I got suckered into this little discussion we're having. From my exp. people who offend others in online games mostly have no offline life That is exactly what I was getting at in my original post. The addendum to that is that most of those same people only play online because no one associate with them in real life.
I had to quit reading this thread pages ago. All the red font on a dark background is blinding and near impossible to read. Kind of bums me out, because I'm sure I missed some good things, but guys....seriously.....red font is not a good choice in posts, unless you are highlighting a very FEW words. Best to choose something easier on the eyes like a light orange. It still makes your highlighted words stand out without blinding people.
Yes the player is getting pleasure, but not from the gameplay. I partially agree with Blow's statements. The rewards in an MMO are completely arbitrary and could literally be labeled as anything (see the carrot on stick example above). MMO players will keep playing just to get said reward. In other kinds of games, the pleasure is taken from the action of actually playing the game. So, as far as using rewards as a substitute for meaningful play or, worse yet, as a way of padding and prolonging play, Blow is right on the money. Where I disagree is the fact that most MMO players are more hooked on the community than the game. Most of the "hardcore" that only play games online don't have any friends in real life (mainly because they're assholes) so they plug into MMOs in order to get, at the very least, the simulacrum of social interaction. It's kind of like a virgin calling a phone sex line; not even remotely as good as the real thing, but it scratches the itch. In this regard, the MMO is giving the player exactly what they're looking for by providing a social space online. But yeah, I agree that the case for exploitation largely depends on the so called victim. If you're a compulsive collector, then you're being exploited. If you're a shut in that can't make friends in real life (or just don't like to bath), then you're getting what you pay for
That's because 90% of societies raise their citizen on the idea if you work hard, you'll be rewarded. This is why you have so many players doing quests for rewards and try to use gear or professions in ways they weren't meant to like giving themselves an advantage in pvp by twinking.
But the rewards aren't the only thing that brings players, but the fact you can easily make a name for yourself being doing something extraordinary. Check out Swifty Warrior's PvP videos to get idea of what I'm talking about or read the countless Class FAQs within the forums.
It's the media attention that the game gets that makes the community so popular and why people are drawn to it or drawn back to it.
Right now, you could make an MMORPG with all the elements you like, but it would be still garbage when compared to WoW if you're not getting media attention andyou can't make a name for yourself within that community.
I had to quit reading this thread pages ago. All the red font on a dark background is blinding and near impossible to read. Kind of bums me out, because I'm sure I missed some good things, but guys....seriously.....red font is not a good choice in posts, unless you are highlighting a very FEW words. Best to choose something easier on the eyes like a light orange. It still makes your highlighted words stand out without blinding people.
She's right boys, lady girlgeek is right indeed. Red font is not a good choice in post. Red font is the font of the devil. Red font is bad. You boys and girls aren't bad, right? No, of course you are not bad, you children have good hearts with good minds and I know you can do better. I know you can do well.
I suggest you follow the advice of the lovely girlgeek and change the color of your font. Stop writing in red. STOP WRITING IN THE COLOR OF THE DEVIL!!!
Comments
10/10...
Saying you want to design a game to be fun and actually doing it are two completely different things. I don't think people realize how difficult it is to design and make a game, let alone maintaining and balancing it.
10/10...
Saying you want to design a game to be fun and actually doing it are two completely different things. I don't think people realize how difficult it is to design and make a game, let alone maintaining and balancing.
You are correct my son. People tell me all the time that they can do my job better than me. They tell me they could be the King. But everytime they put on the crown and step up to the plate to hit the ball...they always miss, they always strike out. Afterwards they tell me they had no idea how difficult it was to be the king. They tell me they had no idea how hard my job was. They give me back my crown and weep at my feet, I console them, I tell them its okay. You'll have your chance to shine someday I tell them. You will have your chance to glow. In the meantime, I suggest you start paying you dues, so when the time comes to shine, you will shine, and you will shine as bright as the brightest star in the galaxy.
KingCarebear
Lord of the Stars
I dont see anything wrong with giving his own opinions.. we are living in an open society no?
i dont know anything about U2 or what not going on about the war but your next statement disturbs me..you say that its ironic that the country they revile lets them sing in the first place.. just to be sure ITS THE united states we are talking about yes? then I believe that United States is supposedly the "land of the free" and it is widely known for its freedom of speech and the likes.. so whats so ironic about a man or grp in making use of his rights? to expect a country to not allow this kinda song or speech that makes them look bad is a totalitarian regime..
Vegetta, my son, you are a wise little rabbit. A wise little rabbit indeed. Tell me my sayain child, how is your family? How is Bulma doing? Is she well? Do you still love her? What about Trunks? How is he doing these days? And how about little Bra, is she growing up well, has she become a strong young lady?
From reading your post, I see you still have the fire in your heart. You are still the baddest man in the game. Keep doing what you do my child, keep standing strong.
KingCarebear
Lord of the DragonBalls
lol all i can say is omgwtfbbq seriously get over yourself - nobody cares that some tree huger is mad because wow makes people game like asshats or that mmos are ruining art, morality and are socially bankrupt...
I dont see anything wrong with giving his own opinions.. we are living in an open society no?
i dont know anything about U2 or what not going on about the war but your next statement disturbs me..you say that its ironic that the country they revile lets them sing in the first place.. just to be sure ITS THE united states we are talking about yes? then I believe that United States is supposedly the "land of the free" and it is widely known for its freedom of speech and the likes.. so whats so ironic about a man or grp in making use of his rights? to expect a country to not allow this kinda song or speech that makes them look bad is a totalitarian regime..
Excellent rebuttle my child, an excellent rebuttle indeed. Joser my boy, what is your response?
KingCareBear
Lord of the Bands
Vegetta, my son, you are a wise little rabbit. A wise little rabbit indeed. Tell me my sayain child, how is your family? How is Bulma doing? Is she well? Do you still love her? What about Trunks? How is he doing these days? And how about little Bra, is she growing up well, has she become a strong young lady?
From reading your post, I see you still have the fire in your heart. You are still the baddest man in the game. Keep doing what you do my child, keep standing strong.
KingCarebear
Lord of the DragonBalls
lol all i can say is omgwtfbbq seriously get over yourself - nobody cares that some tree huger is mad because wow makes people game like asshats or that mmos are ruining art, morality and are socially bankrupt...
My child, I believe you are mistaken, there are people in this world who do care about MMO's and their affect on society as a whole. There are people, like Mr. Blow, who want to save the world one game at a time. What is so distasteful about hugging trees my young little pup? On the surface you may be laughing, but deep down your crying boy, you're crying for affection, you're crying for love, you're crying for Braid. You are crying for a hug, and finally, you are crying for a Blow.
KingCarebear
Lord of the Trees
Btw, how many of of u, people, asked yourself a question - Wth is Braid
Braid is logic/platformer with probably the only thing new to genre - Implementation of Blow's own view of time
. There're decent music and visuals but those are not from the art of gamecraft. THAT'S IT! 
IF that man ever creates an mmo with many interesting but ballanced classes, without artificaly prolonged gameplay
, but still long enough to have a reason to study that game 
, form clan, call friends, make new friends & stuff, then I'll say "WOW! 
That puppy had finaly grown enouth to be barking at an elephant!", but that's just as possible as 
Care-for-bear, the Lord of nonsense
and summoner of 
stoping irritating the hell out of me
, while still posting in the same 
manner he does 
.
And for now, there only two possible reasons for Blow's words:
1. Wind blows inside Blow's head...
2. Blow's trying to make a name and market his Braid.
And while it works quite well, I'll never respect a human who's gaining attention this way.
Now a bit on what he's saying - If it were for just "carrot on a stick"
, it would be possible to make an mmorpg with let's say 3 classes, 99 levels, automatic stat rising and skill gaining, and one set of equipment per tier (in other words enough attributes to be called and rpg),no trace of decent gameplay at all
, no plot elements whatsoever and nice sound & visuals (which Blow uses as well), and gain money with it.
On side note i've seen 1-2 men made non-comercials better that that
(single ofcause,1-2 men can't run a server), so not much work is needed. Question - Why there're no such mmorpgs? Is it hard to spend a day or two coding this junk? No! It's damn easy, but noone would play that
. Why? The answer is ... [drumbeat] ...
Gameplay! 
... Duh...
The reason there no breathtaking innovative mmos is commerce
. It's easy for a tallented 
Artist to draw with soul, it's easy for a tallented author write a novel 
, it's not hard for an asshole-for-mouth-and-guess-what-for-head to implement his view of time into a puzzle either
.
Now go ahead and try to code an AI capable for implementing and changing strategy for combat system not yet studied
, or a world that lives it's own life
, or an item system able to support vast crafting/inventing
... a list can go on and on, just ask gamers what they want from mmo and u'll get a "to do" list worthy of god's attention, and impossible for others 
. Even an average mmo of our time takes lots of money to be made
, and making a brakethrough will take even more
, and in the end u'll find out that some gamers don't like your setting
, others don't like your pvp
, third group want differnt trading sistem
, fourth don't like your visuals
, fifth don't like your subcription type
... so you've ruined your company by making a high budget game that not every gamer liked
.
So devs gave up
and are making "pop", cause that's what sells 
. Only few are relatively succesfull with their brave experiments
= 
. And Blow is not one of them
=
.
Oh, I almost forgot this topic here is for
, so let's not get
to much... Umm... So... somebody blow up that Blow guy already!
- here, is that what u expected when u started this topic?
P.S. Don't call me your child, u'll ignite a fuse leading to something u don't normaly want to blow up...
I can be quite a 
when 
, and the only thing holding me back in such case is that i don't want a 
.
Reianor my boy, I love you. I love your pretty pictures. And I love you darling colors. What you wrote was extremely entertaining. I loved it. I really did. I always will. I am sorry I am annoying you my boy, but I just can't help it, I just can' t help being myself, I just can't help being the King.
Maybe someday you will learn to love me the same way I love Braid. Right now you love WoW and I completely understand your love for the game. As you stated so eloquently and colorfully, the game does what it is suppose to do, it entertains you(and others) and that is all that matters. It doesn't matter if it is devoid of art or emotion. It doesn't matter if all it offers is a carrot on a stick. The game is making you happy and there is nothing Mr. Blow or anyone else can do about it....YET.
I'm sure in time you and others will change your tune. But in the meantime, I believe I am content with letting you all sing your tune of tunes. You all deserve to be happy. You deserve to be glad. And I would never in my life want to make you mad.
You really showed me something today Mr. Reianor. You really made your papa proud. Keep dancing my boy, keep dancing and singing your song!!!
KingCarebear
Lord of the Worlds
Erm you do know part of the reason WoW is popular is because of it's 'recruit a friend' scheme, its clever marketing encouraging friends to play together. I really doubt many hardcore players lack friends, that is just being bigoted without a shred of evidence.
I edited for emphasis since you seem to have been ignoring the qualifying clause of that statement. Be honest, Which do you enjoy more?:
1) playing Halo split-screen with friends.
2) playing Halo over Xbox Live.
I'm betting that most of you are going to pick door number one. The rest of you are probably playing locked games with people that you already know in real life.
Judging from the behavior of most players in public games, I'm drawing the conclusion that that no one in their right mind would be able stay within 50 feet of these people without submitting to the primal urge to kick the little bastards directly in the balls. Of course, this isn't just an XBox Live thing as any CS:S player or Barrens chat veteran can attest.
So in conclusion, people that ONLY play games online are incapable of having any kind of real life social network due to being complete douche bags.
Show just how much u know about gaming... There was one HUGE reason why FPS didn't make it into PSX favored genre - mp problems. Split screen is second worse implementaition type of mp I've ever seen and can remember atm (1st being "limited player options" type like in some old sega game where one player was moving a robot and the other was shooting based on that same robot's location and direction (all in overtop view)). Every single console/pc game with mp worth mentioning had some way off leting people play without dividing or loosing parts of the screen. (like hot seat or "single screen"). Well, there're probably a few exeptions, where single screen is not that important, but those definitly aren't shooters. I tryed split screens many times in many games - no self respecting gamer would use those when there's a network alternative avaliable for the same game.
Who the fuck are you to set the standard of what constitutes a "self respecting gamer?" You're like some fratboy asshole that boldly states how only the desperate date fat chicks. Guess What? Some people dig fat chicks and some people don't have issues with split screens. We've had TVs and computer monitors larger than 32" for a long time now and at 720p I don't think anyone is squinting at the screen to see what's going on.
YOU have an issue with split screen games, not everyone. To be completely honest, I don't think anyone would have remembered Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Twisted Metal, Wipeout or Mario Kart if they had been online only. Yeah, I know that the interweb was a new-fangled thingamabob back then, but hypothetically speaking...
Ever had a decent mmorpg clan? I guess not... Nor did u get in a decent party... Yes, there are assholes playing mmos, there're assholes "showing off" their "assholeness" by throwing "lol! nOOb!" at unsuspecting victims, there're even assholes accusing online players of being assholes right here in this topic :P , but there are normal players as well, and the fact that they don't prove their existence on world chats over and over like assholes do, doesn't mean they don't exist. And the fact that u're offending gamers just cause they play over net, only shows that u're not far from those assholes.
ooooooo! the redundant rebuttal that doesn't actually cancel out the original statement! I actually just write this off as you taking a personal affront to my comments which says more about you than me.
The ones who's behavoir u disapprove, behave so out of frustration caused by real life. And here u are acting as an asshole out of frustration caused by them. And u're at least as guilty of their behavior as those who u're accusing along with them are guilty of yours. So how come u think u're any better?
Are games an escape from real life or an extension of real life? That's an important question and the primary separation point from "hardcore" gamers and the rest of humanity. I'm not frustrated anymore. I abandoned online gaming and have been quite a bit happier ever since.
Also u have a funny definition there about only plaing games online... just how far that "only" stretches? That's an easy way to offend people and then "innocently" state "I only meant people who play online 24 hours a day, and didn't mean those who do [whatever was mentionted in response]."
I mean people that won't play a game unless it is played online. People who won't play single-player, local co-op, local MP and won't touch a game that doesn't offer online play and / or ignore any offline features of a game. Does that clarify?
I just want you to know... I didn't intend to respond to this...
I was just going to walk away and get back to my life...
I'm not strong enough to resist the urge to flame.... I'm sorry...
Yeah, cause we all know having social disorders, having troubles making new firends, or being overly nervous around new people has nothing to do with it...nope, they're just douchebags according to you.
Um... Am I the only person here that thinks the term "social disorder" sounds like a politically correct way of saying "potential serial rapist?"
Seriously, acting like an asshole in public is still acting like an asshole in public. BTW, the internet is a public place.
Pass me the waste basket, I have to throw up. King Carebear just has that effect on me.
Look, I have played EQ 2 ever since launch, and have yet to have any character hit level cap. I feel no Pavlovian system of rewards that keep me ringing the bell.
I come home from work sometimes and just want to kill something, so I log in, join a group, and go lay waste to the land for about an hour or two. Until I've blown off steam and can actually be calm and rational with the fam.
On weekends the fam sleeps late, I am an early riser. So I cool my heals either crafting, or, if I'm more awake and bored, I go out gathering, trying to work my toon into deep shit where every mob is orange and red just to see if I can gather and not get killed.
Rather than run their treadmill, I set my own goals and objectives. You have no idea how many times I see a group advertise for a certain dungeon which I need, and I pass it by because it doesn't fit in with what I feel like doing. So I don't kill the mob boss today, so what. He'll was there yesterday, he'll be there tomorrow, the next day, the next week, the next month, the next year. No hurry. There's always another group, and always another boss to slay.
Son, if I make you that sick I suggest you come to my room so I can give ya some of my carebear medicine. Than, after you have taken your medicine we can play a game of Braid. Than, after we finish playing you and I can get on our knees and pray to the good lord for making such a great game. Than, after we finish praying to the good lord for making such a great game we can go to Jonathan Blow's house and blow Jonathan Blow.....
I'm kidding sonny, daddy's only kidding. I would never allow you to do something so vile and vulgar.
KingCarebear
Lord of the Flowers
Uhhh................................................ummm.....ya I'm not even going to bother saying something. I don't need any hugs or kisses from you!
Pass me the waste basket, I have to throw up. King Carebear just has that effect on me.
Look, I have played EQ 2 ever since launch, and have yet to have any character hit level cap. I feel no Pavlovian system of rewards that keep me ringing the bell.
I come home from work sometimes and just want to kill something, so I log in, join a group, and go lay waste to the land for about an hour or two. Until I've blown off steam and can actually be calm and rational with the fam.
On weekends the fam sleeps late, I am an early riser. So I cool my heals either crafting, or, if I'm more awake and bored, I go out gathering, trying to work my toon into deep shit where every mob is orange and red just to see if I can gather and not get killed.
Rather than run their treadmill, I set my own goals and objectives. You have no idea how many times I see a group advertise for a certain dungeon which I need, and I pass it by because it doesn't fit in with what I feel like doing. So I don't kill the mob boss today, so what. He'll was there yesterday, he'll be there tomorrow, the next day, the next week, the next month, the next year. No hurry. There's always another group, and always another boss to slay.
Son, if I make you that sick I suggest you come to my room so I can give ya some of my carebear medicine. Than, after you have taken your medicine we can play a game of Braid. Than, after we finish playing you and I can get on our knees and pray to the good lord for making such a great game. Than, after we finish praying to the good lord for making such a great game we can go to Jonathan Blow's house and blow Jonathan Blow.....
I'm kidding sonny, daddy's only kidding. I would never allow you to do something so vile and vulgar.
KingCarebear
Lord of the Flowers
Uhhh................................................ummm.....ya I'm not even going to bother saying something. I don't need any hugs or kisses from you!
Oh son, I think you are mistaken, I think you do need my hugs. I think you do need my kisses. You've got the look of the devil. You've got the face of hell.
KingCarebear
Lord of the ants
First of all, it's not about WoW - it was merely cited, probably because it's the one with the most notoriety.
Parents must adapt to society's changes - games are not a trend anymore they have become part of our lives. Now those games have elements of addiction - unless the law makes devs create their games in a particular way, they're going to keep following good old capitalism, even if it involveshooking their players to their virtual worlds.
A broader discussion is needed. Meanwhile, parents, "deal".
Reianor my boy, I love you. I love your pretty pictures. And I love you darling colors. What you wrote was extremely entertaining. I loved it. I really did. I always will. I am sorry I am annoying you my boy, but I just can't help it, I just can' t help being myself, I just can't help being the King.
Maybe someday you will learn to love me the same way I love Braid. Right now you love WoW and I completely understand your love for the game. As you stated so eloquently and colorfully, the game does what it is suppose to do, it entertains you(and others) and that is all that matters. It doesn't matter if it is devoid of art or emotion. It doesn't matter if all it offers is a carrot on a stick. The game is making you happy and there is nothing Mr. Blow or anyone else can do about it....YET.
I'm sure in time you and others will change your tune. But in the meantime, I believe I am content with letting you all sing your tune of tunes. You all deserve to be happy. You deserve to be glad. And I would never in my life want to make you mad.
You really showed me something today Mr. Reianor. You really made your papa proud. Keep dancing my boy, keep dancing and singing your song!!!
KingCarebear
Lord of the Worlds
Relaxing... taking a deep breath... breathing out a stream of fire in Carebear's direction...
I wasn't kidding about a fuse...
But I'll try to stay calm... for now...
And yes I know u can't help annoying people :P
The day I "learn to love" "care from bear" is the day I'll march to the closest madhose on my own, and I realy hope that day would never come... There's a phrase in Russia "Bear service" which means "help" no one asked for, that eventualy lead to horrible consequence. That's just the kind of "care" u're providing. :P
Well, "gramps", I dunno how u can "understand my love for WoW" when I'm not even playing it... (nor any other mmo atm), nor do I understand why u adore that blow guy and his ingenious brain ... erm... I mean braid of cause... (omg! how could I mix those two thing... they have so little in common... wait, do they have anything in common???... oh, yes... spelling...) But there's one thing u're right about - happyness is when one thinks he's happy. And no blow in the head is gonna change that truth. So, if u love playing a game which takes 1 man who can code + 1 man who can compose + 1 man who can draw(and those don't nessesary have to be tallented people) + 1 man who has a messed up view of time and enough guts to spout foul speech on a topic he has no clue about to make and sell, then so be it, but don't expect other people to abandon what u persive as a "quest for a carrot on a stick" for something that's not even worth a @#$% on a stick, where stick is only used for delivery.
On side note - I don't sing - imho 98+% of time singing only spoils music it goes with (if the music is decent it in the first place), and I'm definitely not from those other 2-%. Nor do I dance, I don't even consider that being an art - Hard? maybe sometimes... Beautiful? Pleasant? Entertaining? Never! Well I'm not saying everyone should drop it, that's just my opinion... But what would a bear know about dancing or singing anyway...
Oh and my father doesn't even know how to launch an internet browser... Not to mention the fact that he can't initiate internet connection or even start up PC. Add here the fact that he doesn't even have a PC to begin with... So he definitely wasn't browsing mmorpg.com forums... Nor did I see him in person since my last post. So how come I made him proud all of a sudden?
And the last question for this post - What exactly did I show u?
It's no surprise to me that a person who made an indie game that has been defined as "art" would try to turn "games as art" into a selling strategy.
However, his criticism of WoW as being exploitive is true. MMORPGs are set up to delay players from reaching their goals as much as possible but still give enough incentives to prevent them from walking away. Think of the old arcade games and we'll see the same thing; give players enough of an incentive to keep feeding quarters into the machine.
I resubed to WoW because some people at work started playing it. A month ago I ran Kara with them for the 1st time. It took 7 hours and all the bosses were killed. I was the only leather wearer in group so I got a lot of the loot - I can't play WoW anymore; the spell is broken. The time it took out weighed the emotion I received getting the items, in fact, I walked away that night with a very bad headache. I knew of WoWs exploitive nature and I accepted it - most people who play WoW are aware of it; but i've lost my incentive - it was not fun.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
My son, what you say is true. You are wise beyond your years. I am glad you have learned from your experiences and learned from your flawed ways. You are now on the path to greatness my son. You are on your way to the promise land. I suggest you have a little talk with your brother(Reianor) and guide him to the light. Guide him to Braid.
KingCarebear
Lord of the Lights
I don't believe his ways were ever "flawed". He had fun playing a game and then didn't like it anymore or became burnt out on it. It happens with all games weather you learn something from them or not. As long as you had some fun playing the game thas what matters. That doesn't mean I don't think it would be a good idea to try and teach something useful in games, but in the end gaming is consumer driven and companies will do what makes them the most money. I played EQ for five years and I have been playing WoW for a while now off and on. I have had some fun times in both games regardless of the fact that it doesn't really do anything for me other then to explore a fake world and kill some fake creatures.
My son, what you say is true. You are wise beyond your years. I am glad you have learned from your experiences and learned from your flawed ways. You are now on the path to greatness my son. You are on your way to the promise land. I suggest you have a little talk with your brother(Reianor) and guide him to the light. Guide him to Braid.
KingCarebear
Lord of the Lights
I do not own the Xbox 360 and will not quest for one as its current value, alas, mine eyes are shunned from your light. Eternal darkness! No, not simply eternal darkness, but an awareness of your light which makes the darkness darker and so I am also damned... Eternal darkness and damnation - you've brought them both to me!
You monster!
I've heard good things about Braid but it's not worth 250 dollars when I could just play:
http://games.yahoo.com/free-games/wink-the-game
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
My son, what you say is true. You are wise beyond your years. I am glad you have learned from your experiences and learned from your flawed ways. You are now on the path to greatness my son. You are on your way to the promise land. I suggest you have a little talk with your brother(Reianor) and guide him to the light. Guide him to Braid.
KingCarebear
Lord of the Lights
I do not own the Xbox 360 and will not quest for one as its current value, alas, mine eyes are shunned from your light. Eternal darkness! No, not simply eternal darkness, but an awareness of your light which makes the darkness darker and so I am also damned... Eternal darkness and damnation - you've brought them both to me!
You monster!
I've heard good things about Braid but it's not worth 250 dollars when I could just play:
http://games.yahoo.com/free-games/wink-the-game
I am sorry my son, but I believe you are mistaken. The game you call Braid is not $250(at least I don't think it is). The last I heard, the game was a mere 12 dollars and 50 cents.
If I am wrong. If it is I who is the man who is mistaken, than I shall do you the honor of eating your hat.
KingCarebear
Lord of the Cents
My darling young boy. You are such a precious poster. I love your honesty and your bravery to be yourself. Someday you will see the light, and someday we shall see eye to eye. Now run along now my little soldier, go play with your toys. Go play with the boys.
KingCarebear
Lord of the Toys
Erm you do know part of the reason WoW is popular is because of it's 'recruit a friend' scheme, its clever marketing encouraging friends to play together. I really doubt many hardcore players lack friends, that is just being bigoted without a shred of evidence.
I edited for emphasis since you seem to have been ignoring the qualifying clause of that statement. Be honest, Which do you enjoy more?:
1) playing Halo split-screen with friends.
2) playing Halo over Xbox Live.
I'm betting that most of you are going to pick door number one. The rest of you are probably playing locked games with people that you already know in real life.
Judging from the behavior of most players in public games, I'm drawing the conclusion that that no one in their right mind would be able stay within 50 feet of these people without submitting to the primal urge to kick the little bastards directly in the balls. Of course, this isn't just an XBox Live thing as any CS:S player or Barrens chat veteran can attest.
So in conclusion, people that ONLY play games online are incapable of having any kind of real life social network due to being complete douche bags.
Show just how much u know about gaming... There was one HUGE reason why FPS didn't make it into PSX favored genre - mp problems. Split screen is second worse implementaition type of mp I've ever seen and can remember atm (1st being "limited player options" type like in some old sega game where one player was moving a robot and the other was shooting based on that same robot's location and direction (all in overtop view)). Every single console/pc game with mp worth mentioning had some way off leting people play without dividing or loosing parts of the screen. (like hot seat or "single screen"). Well, there're probably a few exeptions, where single screen is not that important, but those definitly aren't shooters. I tryed split screens many times in many games - no self respecting gamer would use those when there's a network alternative avaliable for the same game.
Who the fuck are you to set the standard of what constitutes a "self respecting gamer?" You're like some fratboy asshole that boldly states how only the desperate date fat chicks. Guess What? Some people dig fat chicks and some people don't have issues with split screens. We've had TVs and computer monitors larger than 32" for a long time now and at 720p I don't think anyone is squinting at the screen to see what's going on.
YOU have an issue with split screen games, not everyone. To be completely honest, I don't think anyone would have remembered Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Twisted Metal, Wipeout or Mario Kart if they had been online only. Yeah, I know that the interweb was a new-fangled thingamabob back then, but hypothetically speaking...
Ever had a decent mmorpg clan? I guess not... Nor did u get in a decent party... Yes, there are assholes playing mmos, there're assholes "showing off" their "assholeness" by throwing "lol! nOOb!" at unsuspecting victims, there're even assholes accusing online players of being assholes right here in this topic :P , but there are normal players as well, and the fact that they don't prove their existence on world chats over and over like assholes do, doesn't mean they don't exist. And the fact that u're offending gamers just cause they play over net, only shows that u're not far from those assholes.
ooooooo! the redundant rebuttal that doesn't actually cancel out the original statement! I actually just write this off as you taking a personal affront to my comments which says more about you than me.
The ones who's behavoir u disapprove, behave so out of frustration caused by real life. And here u are acting as an asshole out of frustration caused by them. And u're at least as guilty of their behavior as those who u're accusing along with them are guilty of yours. So how come u think u're any better?
Are games an escape from real life or an extension of real life? That's an important question and the primary separation point from "hardcore" gamers and the rest of humanity. I'm not frustrated anymore. I abandoned online gaming and have been quite a bit happier ever since.
Also u have a funny definition there about only plaing games online... just how far that "only" stretches? That's an easy way to offend people and then "innocently" state "I only meant people who play online 24 hours a day, and didn't mean those who do [whatever was mentionted in response]."
I mean people that won't play a game unless it is played online. People who won't play single-player, local co-op, local MP and won't touch a game that doesn't offer online play and / or ignore any offline features of a game. Does that clarify?
I just want you to know... I didn't intend to respond to this...
I was just going to walk away and get back to my life...
I'm not strong enough to resist the urge to flame.... I'm sorry...
That depends on how one persives the term gamer. Basicly I persive "gamer" as someone who boot's up his [insert gaming device here] not to hang out, but to enjoy the game and do his best against it's chalenges. Now, split screen doesn't help even a bit with this. If u use split screen when u have opportunity to use any form of network (unless u're paying chess by mail with a delay... then again chess don't need split screen...) u're using it to hang out (unless u prefer playing with one half of the screen avaliable to full screen). On the other hand when something similar is happening right next to your half of the screen it's distracting. Imagine watching a movie on one part of the screen while having another movie on the other - even if u have no interest in one of them, watching the other wont be that pleasant. It doesn' matter how big is your whole screen unless your part of the screen covers your etire view range including it's "bordering" part. I guess u don't have a screen that big. So u're basicly sacrificing comfort and efficiency of playing for having your friend next to u. And u call yourself a gamer? The fact that one's visiting gym doesn't make one bodybuilder, the fact that one's singing in bathroom doesn't make one a singer. And i'm not even talking about professionals here. Being someone classified by action requires sertain level of devotion. There's a word for those who play but don't take gaming seriously - casual. And while it's being extened to "casual gamer", those words don't mach. Kinda like "old youngster"... And no, I'm not mixing "hardcore gamer" with just "gamer", those are even thurther...
Actual gamers remember Twisted Metal's mp not as an opportunity to hang out but as an opportunity to play with another human, and that (playing with another human) just as well can be done over net. I'm not stating noone prefers split screen, I'm stating that those who do, aren't gamers. Game club? maybe if talking is needed more then TS server can provide... (and even then home + net give more comfort then live talk) Split screen? Naaah...
In other words if we translate that to your comparison to to fat women, and there was a term for people who are into slim ones - I'm not calling those who aren't desperate or stating they have no self respect, they just don't fit into that term. More then that, if they're stating that preffering slim women is some kind of abnormality they just don't know much about it. Does it still look to u like I'm the one offending u?
I don't get it - u're saying that most online gamers should get a kick in...[see your own statement]... And u expect gamers to sit by and listen? Maybe I didn't make myself clear? It's not most, it's some. You know, I tend to encounter many assholes irl. How would u feel if I state - most people leading active social life are assholes blah-blah-blah... What would that say about me? That I judge many people by actions of few, and dare to take offence to those I don't even know. That's exactly how u look with your statement. But I don't run around rl entertainment establishments telling people who vist them, that most of them are assholes. And here you are, on mmo related site's forums calling most of its visitors bastards. So, "who the fuck are u" (your own phrase) to offend people u don't know?
So, great!, u are no longer frustrated, and more than that - u abandoned online gaming. May I ask what urge led you to coming to an mmo related site to offend online gamers? That frustration I mentioned, while being a sorry excuse, was still "some kind of" excuse. And, according to you, you don't have even that.
From my exp. people who offend others in online games mostly have no offline life (not in reverse though), so I think for them it's games as escapism + offence out of frustration (sorriest excuse, but most common reason nevertheless). There're still people who play games and lead a social life. Person's position on casual-hardcore "scale" imho is determined not by how much time is being spent playing, but rather how games are played, what matters for person playing, and what games he/she preffers. There're players for whom games are like competitive sport, there're those for whom it's "skill perfection+procces enjoyment" sport, others treat them like some kind of lite entertainment (this just screams "casual"), for others it's just a time sink (from my exp. those are mostly cheaters, who have nothing else to do at the time they're "playing"), for some it's extention of real life, some went as deep as to sink there, and there's probably something I missed here. There's also a question of what games, how much skill they need and how much skill a person has... umm... let's make it shorter - it's not just a question of escapism with a bit of adjustment, more than that, escapisms has probably the least to do with it. So if player calls himself "hardcore" just for spending all his time playing, and has no other reason, then he's probably just an escapist seeking to pat his wounded sence of self respect.
So, as far as i know, game escapists are people unhappy with rl, seeking shelter in virtual worlds. While they aren't "100% hardcore" they mostly aren't casual either (who can forget rl playing puzzle/barbie adventure/some other casual game?). Currently game industry, they rely so much on, is leaning towards massive "casual entertainment" production, affecting even mmos. Casuals, being used to being successfull irl, want the same success in virtual, while spending a minor portion of their time and even less effort, and keep complaining about "bad kids" offending them. And devs tend to do their bidding ("rest" systems anyone? disballanced cash shops?). So if people came to your "last resort" and try to turn it into "tourists resort" while complaining that "locals aren't friendly", how would u feel?
Let me translate that into rl. Imagine your director "hireing" someone and telling u "this is Pete, he barely had any exp. in our busyness and he's gonna work 8 times less then u, but since he gave me that nice +15 dragonslayer I'm gonna pay him more than I pay u, he'll be your boss, and if we need to turn loose some workers it's not gonna be him either", next you come to your favored cafe and find out it'll soon be turned into a game club, and when u come home you find out that your wife took kids and left, leaving a note - "sorry, you're fun and all, but i love Jack, he's lazy as hell, has the worst job imaginable, and is complete log in bed, but he's so a good at playing Wii...". While all that is as likely to happen as it is possible for a human to survive a direct hit by a tactical nuke, something like that is happening to escapists - all they hold dear in their life is being taken form them in favor of others (who perform horribly in it) because of their achievements in something escapists can't compete in. So u still expect them all to be friendly?
And about clarified description - ever seen such a gamer? Sounds more like net thing to me, than like gaming... Also the more time spend playing the more people tend to look for oponents of their level of skill, and online games are best option for that. There still SP (or rather VS PC) games enjoyable after that much playing, but people tend to become more picky in that.
There're also people trying to hide behind the net, who are just too shy and ugly (or think themselve to be) to show themselve in person. So how come those can't be the "mithical oline-only gamers"?
"I just want you to know... I didn't intend to respond to this...
I was just going to walk away and get back to my life...
I'm not strong enough to resist the urge to flame.... I'm sorry..."
Yeah, yeah... u're all white and fluffy... And u "accidently" came to mmorpg.com forums after "abandoning" online gaming and started accusing "most players in public games" of being bastards, who noone can stand... blah-blah-blah... and then a "bad gamer" "made u flame"... Well, duh! If we all here agreed with your accusations, there would have been nothing to flame...
I had to quit reading this thread pages ago. All the red font on a dark background is blinding and near impossible to read. Kind of bums me out, because I'm sure I missed some good things, but guys....seriously.....red font is not a good choice in posts, unless you are highlighting a very FEW words. Best to choose something easier on the eyes like a light orange. It still makes your highlighted words stand out without blinding people.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
That's because 90% of societies raise their citizen on the idea if you work hard, you'll be rewarded. This is why you have so many players doing quests for rewards and try to use gear or professions in ways they weren't meant to like giving themselves an advantage in pvp by twinking.
But the rewards aren't the only thing that brings players, but the fact you can easily make a name for yourself being doing something extraordinary. Check out Swifty Warrior's PvP videos to get idea of what I'm talking about or read the countless Class FAQs within the forums.
It's the media attention that the game gets that makes the community so popular and why people are drawn to it or drawn back to it.
Right now, you could make an MMORPG with all the elements you like, but it would be still garbage when compared to WoW if you're not getting media attention andyou can't make a name for yourself within that community.
She's right boys, lady girlgeek is right indeed. Red font is not a good choice in post. Red font is the font of the devil. Red font is bad. You boys and girls aren't bad, right? No, of course you are not bad, you children have good hearts with good minds and I know you can do better. I know you can do well.
I suggest you follow the advice of the lovely girlgeek and change the color of your font. Stop writing in red. STOP WRITING IN THE COLOR OF THE DEVIL!!!
KingCareBear
Lord of the Pink