My question is.. how the hell could that isildur guy not think WoW is a gankfest? That's like -all- that goes on there. Consequences for actions balances it. People who gank and grief will be hunted, I'm sure. Always ways to get people back in darkfall.
Arcturussage does not speak for the forumfall community.
We need no apologizing, as we did nothing wrong.
If you are one of the people who were some how offended by the fact that we are "hyped" about Darkfall, then you would probably get slaughtered in game and cry on the forums about how you need safezones and epic loot.
We will take your Hype meter advertising for our game, but we do not need your support MMORPG.com
The fun thing about you? Once all your little kitty friends become tire of swinging teh hammer leik in teh video they will quit. If the game is any good at that point, there will be an influx of new players. The second gen players will be more the "other" mmo crowd, and if your game wants to continue making money, they wil soften sort of liek L2.
You have always had PvP options, almost every game has a PvP server. I just can't wait to see youback here complaining both 1) How you got ganked or 2) How you got nerfed or 3) How the game is all care-bear in 6 months after release or 4) How no one plays anymore.
I played WH beta, it's not even salvageable (WoW, graphics and all). This game doesn't stand a chance. Just an opinion.
Anyone who thinks that a "PvP server" is equivalent to open PvP has no idea what they are talking about.
UO and AC Darktide showed us the potential and flaws of open PvP. The Darkfall developers are disciples of those games, and have combined the good from those games, with their own style and innovative new features.
If you don't like it, tough. The game is coming out and we will all see then.
As for representing the Darkfall community, I would say that I represent "forumfall" pretty well. I'll be nice and civil if I see nice and civil. MMORPG.com has always been hostile to Darkfall, so I am hostile to MMORPG.com
As you can see, my join date for this site is '04, yet I only have a handful of posts. My SOLE reason for being on here is to defend Darkfall. I've done so for years, and with beta coming close, I won't let the naysayers get the better of us.
Apologizing is not the in the style of Darkfall. If I could, I could kill and loot you. Unfortunately, the forums don't have those features, so my posts will have to suffice.
I only hope that the main community is more like arct and not like you.
Keeper2000: "You and others arent informing people. Just hyping. And you will be success! Many people will buy DFO on the hype and find it NOT to be what they were looking for." If this would truly be the case, then they deserve it, you do a bit more reasearch on a game before you buy it, and we are not really hiding the fact that it is FFA PvP full loot. And about the hype-meter this is how it works, don't blame the DFO community for "using it wrong" when we are only using it as it is intended to be used..
geese glad everyone will get to try before they buy
__________________________________________________ In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten
Speak for yourself, I am not apoligizing anything. When trolls come to this board and start hating on DF with their unfounded bullshit posts, then I reserve the right to flame the shit out of them. You dont see me going to other boards and start anything though.
So true.
What haters been doing here on the Darkfall board over the years is totally unforgivable. They more or less ruined the possibility to have any sort of game related discussions.
Every thread was destroyed by nay-sayers and haters. Darkfall fans were always in defence stand which in itself is nothing but amazing. Having to defend the game against the ones with no interest in it? Whats that?
So seems the bridges is burned and i wont be the one rebuilding them.
Hello, In a recent hypemeter comments and forum posts you expressed your concern about the darkfall community. I just want to let you know that there are those of us that who are not fanbois foaming at the mouth. We want to make the game a good community and want people to be able to play without getting ganked every 30 seconds by 12 year olds that think its the greatest thing in the world. Yes, all games have their rotten apples and the darkfall community seems to have a lot of bad apples, but please don't disregard the game, or the rest of the community because of the poor ones. Many people have been following this game for over 3 or 4 years, many of those years left them... us, with little information and little hope. Many found ways to pass the time, some are certainly more bitter than others. We aren't proud of this fact, but its what we had to do to pass the time. It certainly isn't an excuse, but hopefully it helps explain a few things. Again, not all of the community is bad. I, personally, hope that a lot of the community will change once the game is released and get their initial excitement and anger out of the way. Darkfall is unique. You only have your one character per server, you can't be an ass and then jump on another character. Your actions have consequences, if your are a jerk, news will spread and it will work against you. People that are known as being helpful upstanding players will be rewarded. Hopefully this will help douse the flames of some of the more severe members of the community. Only time will tell. All I ask is that you give Darkfall a chance. I truly believe that there is a little something for everyone. PvPers and "Carebears" alike can find something that appeals to them if they just give it a chance. On behalf of the civil members of the community I want you to apologize for the others. All I can offer is the hope that they will cool off once the game release and that if not, hopefully they will be the minority.
Apologize for what?
Hyping the game we like?
Dehyping the games we dont like?
Thats the purpose of the hypemeter.
If someone made alts they did wrong. And this apply also to the haters that made alts to dehype Darkfall.
The hatred towards Darkfall latest year have come from some of the most immature individuals in the history of game websites. Wasnt one thread that werent ruined by the haters and no-sayers.
These Darkfall haters dont deserve any appologize from the Darkfall fans hyping Darkfall and dehyping games they dont like.
And what about the people that is not a DF hater? Or do you think the human race is now divided only between DF lovers and DF haters.
Appologize for hyping Darkfall? You're kidding i hope. Appologize for dehyping a game i dont like? I hate all carebear games and wouldnt play them even if i got payed doing it. I dont appologize to anyone cause i have my personal taste for games. And you dont see me roam the carebear sites trolling them. A huge difference to the trolls invading Darkfall site.
I never thought the OP was apologizing to the DF trolls. I thought he was apologizing to all the people that are having a very "interesting" show of how some fanatic people can act.
Calling people fanatics cause they hype the game they like and dehype the ones they dont like is nothing but hillarious. Thats the purpose of that hypelist.
All MMO have fanatics. Dont you remember how high AoC was rated after release in here? If you are trying to show that DF is not different than other MMOs (which are full of fanatic people) you achieved your objective. Well done!!! DF community is not different than all the WAR fanbois, WoW fanbois, AoC fanbois.
Darkfall have the most loyal fans of any game arround and i salute them for it. And whats the purpose being a fan if you cant express it? What is fanatic about giving Darkfall a 10 on the hypeboard?=)
Now try to tell people to come to a FFA PvP w/full looting, which is full of fanatics too.
ROFL. The ones enjoying the game will stay, the ones that dont enjoy the game or the enviroment will of course leave. And? Your point? If they cant handle the hardcore aspects of the game or enjoy the griefings that WILL take place then Darkfall isnt a game for them. Simple as that.
Ahhh, it wont survive you say? Can you elaborate abit on that cause i dont understand abit what youre talking about? Uzik is a good representant for Darkfall community as i see it. Have a nice one
Yes, I can elaborate.
FFA PvP is not for all. Less with full looting.
True. Some will like it, some wont. And?
You and others arent informing people. Just hyping. And you will be success! Many people will buy DFO on the hype and find it NOT to be what they were looking for.
Im one of the fans that tried to contribute the most of informing about the game. Its been a never ending hill though to try to get through with all the haters and nay-sayers thats been lurking this Darkfall board. So no excuses whatsoever needed from the fans that done their best to inform on the game.
People will be able to try this game out fully for free before buying it. If they like it they buy and subscribe. If its not a game for them then they will not buy it.
Then the whines and the cancels. And in the end it will happen what happened to every single FFA PvP MMO ever released: it will mutate to a more carebear environment or die.
If they dont understand the fundamental game mechanisms in the game then either adapt or move on.
Soon you will find playing with yourself and Uzik.
If game delivers we will be playing a very successful sandbox with or without carebears. The hardcore PvP community in itself can carry the game with ease. Full loot and griefing is what alot of players seeks in a game. Its not all cup of tea of course. But isnt it nice they can go back to one of the numerous carebear games arround then?
You dont like my opinion? You think I am wrong? That not only DF will be all that is promised, without bugs and with uberness all around... but you think it will have a player base that will economically support it and that Aventurine will hold their beleives to the end?
That's your opinion. Mine is what I said. And if the DF community is like you adn Uzik... then you will just ruin the game.
I know there are asshats in all MMOs. I just hope you are the minority.
Aye youre most definetly wrong if you think the developers will need to go carebear with Darkfall. Going carebear and adapt on whining carebears will destroy the game though. Developers is hardcore PvP gamers making this game as much for themself as for the community, didnt you know that?=)
Theyre hardcore PvP:ers and will in no way make Darkfall go carebear. If game delivers and the hardcore community accept it they wont need any carebears. So carebears in Darkfall, adapt or take the highroad. Dont forget to close the door on the way out.
Heres a quote from Claus, one of the original developers of Darkfall:
"if we can recreate just a little of that first magic in UO with darkfall, my life has been
worthwhile." You think Claus would let Darkfall go carebear?=)
Good post OP. All I have to say about all the Forumfall tough talkers is they have a rude awakening coming to them if they take these attitudes into an open PvP environment. I've played enough games with similar PvP rulesets to know what is going to happen to them if they do. They are going to get ganked alot just for running their mouths in game and they will be the ones coming to the forums and whining about it. I've seen it before all too many times. They will either adapt their attitudes for the better or they will be driven out of the game as they will be on a lot of KoS lists otherwise. Don't worry about them as they will either smarten up or they will be on the wrong side of a ganking all too often, of this I have no doubt.
I accept your apology. Being someone that is interested in Darkfall solely for it's similarities to UO, I find the community to be rather discouraging. The only way to have a conversation about Darkfall with Darkfall zealots is to make a post that praises it...or, sometimes, completely bashes it. If you just want to discuss an element of the game, people will come in and just say "it's the best" or "you don't agree? you're a troll!" Simply put, discussing Darkfall here is completely worthless. It's even worse than the WAR forums. Your apology though, gives me a little hope for the community.
Your totally wrong.
All threads that have a discussion going on goes real well until a troll or no-sayer enters the thread. Thats the point when all threads here the last years have gone out of the window.
Either you havent been arround this board and experienced it or you're just trolling.
But have to say that the fans have retaken this Darkfall site and theres been alot more constructive discussions lately. Dont blame the fans for poor discussions though. Blame the troll and haters disrupting all attempts having one..
Understood OP, every game's community has it zealots, and they are difficult to deal with no matter which side they fall on.
I laughed at the post that said DFO doesn't need MMORPG.com (like its a live entity or something), but I'd point out this site has over 900,000 registered members, which is likely to be about 750K members more than DFO's final sub base. Seems like they might need a few of us over there to feed the gankers or something.
I'll tell you what hardcore fanbois, DFO is my game, not yours. It never needed you to defend it, but it sure needs my money to keep it alive. Better hope I show up, (along with people like me) or DFO won't survive as a viable game. (unless of course, you enjoy 50k subscribers, its enough to play certainly)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Speak for yourself, I am not apoligizing anything. When trolls come to this board and start hating on DF with their unfounded bullshit posts, then I reserve the right to flame the shit out of them. You dont see me going to other boards and start anything though.
You don't have to apologize, but you also can't refer to nay-sayer posts as "unfounded." Nay-sayers have more proof than any Darkfall supporter as of now. Why? Because the burden of proof lasts on those trying to prove something exists, not on the ones trying to prove it does not. Asking those who don't believe in DFO to prove it doesn't exist makes as much sense as trying to prove God doesn't exist. It is impossible to do because it is impossible to un-prove anything. What I'm saying here is that if you believe in DFO, then you're the one that has to prove that its real, not the other way around.
Until Beta starts or we get some substantial gameplay videos (featuring UI and more than just combat), we have every right to not believe in Darkfall. Where is the proof of its existence? I could write a design document about a game where you train miniature poodles, and write a developer update every two weeks, but that doesn't make the game real.
To the OP: I appreciate your maturity and understand that you're trying to help, but I warn you that it will most likely be a fruitless effort. You will be flamed by fanboys and nay-sayers alike. Still, this community has to understand that the burden rests on the believers and no one else.
I would like to thank everyone that has contributed so far. I don't have too much time to post so this wont be as long or coherent as I would like.
First, I'm not apologizing to the anti-dfo trolls that may be on these forums. This apology is for people that have been somewhat interested in the game, but turned off by the community. It is also for new people that find the game because of the hype meter.
Edit: I'm also not apologizing for any of the hype meter stuff. If it was done with only one account per person, then I am lenient with that.
Yes, with all of our glory, our hyping and de-hyping people will suddenly find out about darkfall. What then? They come to these forums, go to the darkfall forums and see nothing but children bickering and fighting. I certainly wouldn't join this community if I didn't know as much as I do about the game and haven't been following it for the past 5 years.
That is primarily who this apology is for. While you (they) may see a lot of trolling, bickering and all around d-baggery (censored to keep the mods happy.) not all of the darkfall community is like this.
Darkfall essentially has two factions: Forumfall, and the rest of the community.
Forumfall is what happened when people had to wait more than a few years for the game. They got bored, bitter and hurtful. They are easily offended if you attack darkfall and will strike back brutally to defend it. These are a majority of the people you see flaming people on the forums, fighting back against trolls on this site, and even the ones posting in this thread. These are many of the people that are interested in ganking, looting you dry, and just being genuine jerks.
Then you have the rest of the community. While many of them maybe have participated in 'forumfall' in the earlier years, the game is nearing release now. We know that community is important, and we want to bring people into our community. There are many clans in the game that focus on crafting or defending people. Many guilds have a mature atmosphere and goals.
Lets jump over to the clan forums for a second and see what we can find.
You will have to log into the darkfall site to be able to see these forums. If you don't already have an account this would be a great time to sign up, apply for the beta and just look for the polite members of the community. It can't hurt you to at least give the game a try
Here is one guilds recruitment thread. They are called Bad Boys for Life (named fondly after the will smith movie)
At least one of their members has posted in this thread. Another was responsible for the "OMG darkfall number 1 on hype meter soon!@!11" If you look at their members on this site and on darkfall you get an idea about some of their players. Not all of them are bad, or rather B@D. I have seen quite a few that are good decent people.
But for example lets take a look at another clan. This one is called Society of the Anvil.
They have a much nicer layout for their post, and clearly put time into it. They have information about the guild, and what makes them different. From the posts alone you can start to see a difference.
I am speaking on behalf of people like the anvil society. The people the understand not everyone is a pimple faced 12 year old that wants to gank and be ganked endlessly. We know that not everyone has the time to constantly be running to their body, or getting started up again every 10 minutes.
Look to these guilds for a community, look to these clans for what potential darkfall has. Try to ignore the rest of 'forumfall' as they will hopefully be a minority once the game comes out.
There were a few peoples posts I wanted to respond to, but do not have time at the moment. You may be receiving a pm from me later.
Speak for yourself, I am not apoligizing anything. When trolls come to this board and start hating on DF with their unfounded bullshit posts, then I reserve the right to flame the shit out of them. You dont see me going to other boards and start anything though.
You don't have to apologize, but you also can't refer to nay-sayer posts as "unfounded." Nay-sayers have more proof than any Darkfall supporter as of now. Why? Because the burden of proof lasts on those trying to prove something exists, not on the ones trying to prove it does not. Asking those who don't believe in DFO to prove it doesn't exist makes as much sense as trying to prove God doesn't exist. It is impossible to do because it is impossible to un-prove anything. What I'm saying here is that if you believe in DFO, then you're the one that has to prove that its real, not the other way around.
Until Beta starts or we get some substantial gameplay videos (featuring UI and more than just combat), we have every right to not believe in Darkfall. Where is the proof of its existence? I could write a design document about a game where you train miniature poodles, and write a developer update every two weeks, but that doesn't make the game real.
To the OP: I appreciate your maturity and understand that you're trying to help, but I warn you that it will most likely be a fruitless effort. You will be flamed by fanboys and nay-sayers alike. Still, this community has to understand that the burden rests on the believers and no one else.
The burden of proof lays with the people saying Darkfall is fake or a hoax. We have all the proof we need Darkfall is real, its up to the Naysayers to prove other wise.
Just like its up to the naysayers to prove God is not real, its up to the naysayers to prove that Darkfall is fake or a hoax.
As far as the naysayers having proof? I have not seen one piece of this so called proof in any post on MMORPG.com since I have been a memember.
To the OP: I think you are trying to do the right thing but it means very little, Darkfall has been under attack since forever and will be long after release. Darkfall is a game that may finally bring the MMORPG genre back from the depths it has fallen and some are scared by it.
To the Fanbois: We have every right to bash the trolls and make them eat their words, it has been a long year with all the arguements on these forums againts the naysayers. Now we finally have all the proof we need.
To anyone else: Darkfall is all about player Freedom, yes its FFA PvP with Full loot but that adds more player freedom. Darkfall is just the tool that will provide players the freedom we require.
The burden of proof lays with the people saying Darkfall is fake or a hoax. We have all the proof we need Darkfall is real, its up to the Naysayers to prove other wise.
Just like its up to the naysayers to prove God is not real, its up to the naysayers to prove that Darkfall is fake or a hoax. As far as the naysayers having proof? I have not seen one piece of this so called proof in any post on MMORPG.com since I have been a memember.
No actually, that's a logical fallacy. Go look it up, please. The burden of proof in any situation rests on the party trying to prove something into existence, not on the party trying to prove it doesn't exist. I don't want to get into an argument about theology, but if I were to theoretically not believe in God, then there is no way for me to actually prove that he doesn't exist. Anything I do can be reasoned with. For example, if I were to say "God doesn't exist because you cannot see him," you could just respond "God maybe invisible to the human eye." I cannot counter that. This creates a logical fallacy. What does this mean? Since it is literally impossible to prove something into unexistence, then you have to prove it into existence. It is a rule of language.
How does this relate to Darkfall? I cannot prove that Darkfall doesn't exist. It is impossible. This means that you have to provide the evidence of its existence. What evidence do you have? Some words by developers and 17 minutes of combat with almost no UI shown and no sandbox elements evident. That is not Darkfall. You have to provide actual concrete evidence. A beta test. A gameplay video that shows an actual sandbox game with expanded UI.
Arguing against this point merely shows your ignorance, not only in the gaming sense, but in language and logic as a whole. You must provide proof, because I cannot.
To the Fanbois: We have every right to bash the trolls and make them eat their words, it has been a long year with all the arguements on these forums againts the naysayers. Now we finally have all the proof we need.
----------------------------------------
God I hate these forums.
I would argue otherwise. Ignore the trolls, don't feed them, don't give them more to work with. Trolls live to piss people off the mroe you fight with them the better. If you DO insist on fighting the trolls, be smart about it
"are you dumb? darkfall is real and the gameplay will be awesome. you're just hurt because your game sucks."
This is not fighting the trolls, or making them eat their words. This is counter trolling, and does nothing helpful. It gives the trolls what they want, a reaction. And anyone else that sees it just things our community is a bunch of children.
If you really want to fight the trolls, have detailed posts. Write out why they are wrong, use structure, avoid personal attacks. Give them dev quotes, clips, posts, anything thats solid proof that proves your point. It wont do anything for the trolls, but at least any outside that looks at the forums will see the correct information, and might even think "Wow, look at that helpful member of the community" THAT is what we need.
That will do more to silence the trolls than anything else. Trolls don't care if theres a gameplay trailer, or beta signups. Big deal. Could easily be faked. That doesn't mean anything. You don't need to silence the trolls, or bash the trolls, you just need to show everyone else that the person IS a troll and doesn't know anything about what they're talking about by giving proof. Saying "You don't know what you're talking about, troll." is not proof.
Edit: I'm also not apologizing for any of the hype meter stuff. If it was done with only one account per person, then I am lenient with that. Good we agree. There are many clans in the game that focus on crafting or defending people. Many guilds have a mature atmosphere and goals. What is a mature athmosphere and goals? Defending people is more mature then killing them? Here is one guilds recruitment thread. They are called Bad Boys for Life (named fondly after the will smith movie)
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=67663 ROFL. No were not named afer the Will Smith movie at all. It was that kind of name the old UO guilds took in the early years. B@D is a old renowned UO guild from the Europe OSI server. A guild known both for their griefings and a guild that could back their griefings with skill. Although im sure there is many other as good clans in Darkfall. At least one of their members has posted in this thread. Another was responsible for the "OMG darkfall number 1 on hype meter soon!@!11" If you look at their members on this site and on darkfall you get an idea about some of their players. Not all of them are bad, or rather B@D. I have seen quite a few that are good decent people. He's a new member too our guild and only 16 years old, way younger then the average B@D member. Hard to have any opinion on new members but that thread certainly dont disqualify him being a member of our clan. But for example lets take a look at another clan. This one is called Society of the Anvil.
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=67636 ROFL. So you got so pissed that you had to make a comparison of the guild i represent with one of the roleplaying guilds of Darkfall? By the way why dont you give us your clan while your at it? They have a much nicer layout for their post, and clearly put time into it. They have information about the guild, and what makes them different. From the posts alone you can start to see a difference. Aye i agree they have a good layout on their application and a nice website. Better then the one we have. We dont have the skill in our guild to make such a nice website so i guess the one we have, have to do. Seems we do just fine though with the website we have. We increased the playerbase in guild alot since we started to recruit. Seems all people dont just look at the quality of websites. Some wanna join quality PvP clans it seems. I am speaking on behalf of people like the anvil society. The people the understand not everyone is a pimple faced 12 year old that wants to gank and be ganked endlessly. We know that not everyone has the time to constantly be running to their body, or getting started up again every 10 minutes. Average age in B@D is way over 20. We have none younger then 16. And i agree gank is so much fun, griefing too. Add competitive PvP with those and its a blast. Might not be something all enjoy but isnt it good we have different taste's? Would be really boring if all were roleplaying guilds like Anvil. We dont roleplay much in B@D you see. Look to these guilds for a community, look to these clans for what potential darkfall has. Try to ignore the rest of 'forumfall' as they will hopefully be a minority once the game comes out. There's alot of roleplayers like Anvil in Darkfall which is good. There will most likely be more people with B@D playstyle so have no fears, we will do just fine with the alliances we already made and the ones to come.
It's a forum like all others. Maybe a bit less moderated though. The DF forums are not much better, I am sick to death from trolls who hate the game for the sake of hating and from l33t kiddies waiting to pwn and shouting carebears to all they see.
I didn't read all the pages. But what I'm going to say is one thing. The community does matter. If a name comes out of a game being full of griefers and gankers, of people with no respect to each other, even if it is the greatest game in the world, it'll turn out to be a failure.
I personally think the game's graphics is a bit old, compared to what I saw in AoC and what WAR will *hopefully* be. The combat seems nice and fast-paced, it might be truely awesome. But if even part of the community sucks and the game turns to be a thriving spot full of griefers, then few of the mature community will stay long.
And as we all know, MMO games live from the subscription fee. So a plea to all DF fans - don't kill the game before it's out.
To the Fanbois: We have every right to bash the trolls and make them eat their words, it has been a long year with all the arguements on these forums againts the naysayers. Now we finally have all the proof we need.
---------------------------------------- God I hate these forums. I would argue otherwise. Ignore the trolls, don't feed them, don't give them more to work with. Trolls live to piss people off the mroe you fight with them the better. If you DO insist on fighting the trolls, be smart about it "are you dumb? darkfall is real and the gameplay will be awesome. you're just hurt because your game sucks."
This is not fighting the trolls, or making them eat their words. This is counter trolling, and does nothing helpful. It gives the trolls what they want, a reaction. And anyone else that sees it just things our community is a bunch of children. If you really want to fight the trolls, have detailed posts. Write out why they are wrong, use structure, avoid personal attacks. Give them dev quotes, clips, posts, anything thats solid proof that proves your point. It wont do anything for the trolls, but at least any outside that looks at the forums will see the correct information, and might even think "Wow, look at that helpful member of the community" THAT is what we need. That will do more to silence the trolls than anything else. Trolls don't care if theres a gameplay trailer, or beta signups. Big deal. Could easily be faked. That doesn't mean anything. You don't need to silence the trolls, or bash the trolls, you just need to show everyone else that the person IS a troll and doesn't know anything about what they're talking about by giving proof. Saying "You don't know what you're talking about, troll." is not proof.
The problem is we cannot have a good discussion on these boards because the naysayers show up and ruin the thread, derails it. You have to fight fire with fire, have we learned nothing in history at all?
Its a great theroy indeed to fight evil with goodness but that is not how the real world works. You fight evil with Evil, that is how you beat it, History has show this over and over.
How does this relate to Darkfall? I cannot prove that Darkfall doesn't exist. It is impossible. This means that you have to provide the evidence of its existence. What evidence do you have? Some words by developers and 17 minutes of combat with almost no UI shown and no sandbox elements evident. That is not Darkfall. You have to provide actual concrete evidence. A beta test. A gameplay video that shows an actual sandbox game with expanded UI. Arguing against this point merely shows your ignorance, not only in the gaming sense, but in language and logic as a whole. You must provide proof, because I cannot.
Thank you stormreaver for being an example. Now folks. This person, is NOT a troll. He's not bashing the game, he's just stating that a gameplayer trailer doesn't mean anything. And he's right. Anyone with some know how could take a game like RUNE, change some models, make a map or two and create a 17 minute long video.
I'm not saying that this is the case. I don't think thats the case at all. But he is not unfounded in his opinion.
To counteract this, we talk to him. Stormreaver, Friend, I understand that you are uneasy about the game. I can see how someone would find it hard to believe in darkfall from a few words from the devs and a gameplay video (we restate why he is untrusting and unbelieving). However, isn't that how all games start out? A few devs saying that they're working on a game?
Yes, for a game like darkfall that has been in development for a while, it is harder to believe it actually exists. Lets look at World of Warcraft. According to Wikipedia (not the best source, but good enough for this argumnet). "Blizzard Entertainment announced World of Warcraft on September 2, 2001" and wasn't released until "November 23, 2004"
So say it took about 3 years for the game to be released from when it was announced. However, factor in that Blizzard is considerably larger than Aventurine, they have been making games longer, and they had at least 3 games worth of backstory, locations, and characters to draw from for the game. That alone can easily explain a large portion of the time difference. Add to that the fact that we don't know how much work, time, effort and money went into WoW before it was even announced. Anyone that is familiar with Blizzard and their business knows that they generally dont announce things until it is in a position to be shown off. Look at D3 and SC2. When they were announced they had some pretty good looking gameplay following with them.
Darkfall on the other hand announced the game as they were starting from the ground up. I believe there are interviews of them talking about working on the network architecture back in 2001-2002. Something that needed to be done before they could even start working on the game itself. Again something that adds a considerable amount of time to the process.
You also mentioned the lack of UI in the video. If you look at the pictures on many of the darkfall websites their are screenshots of the UI. In the video there are also short scenes that show the UI as well. Darkfall is suppose to have a minimalistic UI. There isn't much there on purpose as they want you to feel a part of the game.
A common argument is that the UI could have easily been photoshoped/edited in. Sadly, I have no way to disprove this until people start getting into beta, so for this argument all I can do is say, "just wait an see."
If information like this still does not convince you (or trolls) please let me know why. What makes you catious or unbelieving? Many games have very similar set ups for their games. They show gameplay videos, or just have a few screenshots, yet people trust and believe in the games. Some games just have cinematic trailers on their website that doesn't show anything about gameplay, yet people follow it.
What makes darkfall so different that people jump all over it?
It is very admirable for "one" person to speak on behalf of the whole community and try to apologize for something that has not happened yet.
i have read many forums on Darkfall and many threads and YES, I have read many that go like this, "man i can't wait to gank those dam noobs" or, "my clan is going to pillage and plunder anything and anyone we see" noticed the word "clan" which means "many" so after reading this, I feel very discouraged, as so many potential players, who actually want to explore the greatness of the game by him or herself without worrying about getting a knife in the back and loosing some of your stuff.
FIRST of all, looking at this game my first question is " why should we pay a subscription for this" there are already some PVP MMO's that are quiet good, look original OP i'm sorry this game is gonna FLOP ok, it is outdated, and fine if you guys want to have a small community so be it, because that's what is going too be, a small community of gankers running around for 2 or 3 years until you get tired of it? where's the dungeon element of it? is there one? where's the adventure? no, dont think so im staying away, good luck with your Ganking community
To the Fanbois: We have every right to bash the trolls and make them eat their words, it has been a long year with all the arguements on these forums againts the naysayers. Now we finally have all the proof we need.
---------------------------------------- God I hate these forums. I would argue otherwise. Ignore the trolls, don't feed them, don't give them more to work with. Trolls live to piss people off the mroe you fight with them the better. If you DO insist on fighting the trolls, be smart about it "are you dumb? darkfall is real and the gameplay will be awesome. you're just hurt because your game sucks."
This is not fighting the trolls, or making them eat their words. This is counter trolling, and does nothing helpful. It gives the trolls what they want, a reaction. And anyone else that sees it just things our community is a bunch of children. If you really want to fight the trolls, have detailed posts. Write out why they are wrong, use structure, avoid personal attacks. Give them dev quotes, clips, posts, anything thats solid proof that proves your point. It wont do anything for the trolls, but at least any outside that looks at the forums will see the correct information, and might even think "Wow, look at that helpful member of the community" THAT is what we need. That will do more to silence the trolls than anything else. Trolls don't care if theres a gameplay trailer, or beta signups. Big deal. Could easily be faked. That doesn't mean anything. You don't need to silence the trolls, or bash the trolls, you just need to show everyone else that the person IS a troll and doesn't know anything about what they're talking about by giving proof. Saying "You don't know what you're talking about, troll." is not proof.
The problem is we cannot have a good discussion on these boards because the naysayers show up and ruin the thread, derails it. You have to fight fire with fire, have we learned nothing in history at all?
Its a great theroy indeed to fight evil with goodness but that is not how the real world works. You fight evil with Evil, that is how you beat it, History has show this over and over.
Aye thats how it works. arcturussage is as i see it living up in the clouds or he isnt aware of what the climate of this site used to be and still is. This Darkfall site have been more or less destroyed by the Darkfall haters and no-sayers.
Whats good to see last weeks is that there been more constructive threads.
The burden of proof lays with the people saying Darkfall is fake or a hoax. We have all the proof we need Darkfall is real, its up to the Naysayers to prove other wise.
Just like its up to the naysayers to prove God is not real, its up to the naysayers to prove that Darkfall is fake or a hoax. As far as the naysayers having proof? I have not seen one piece of this so called proof in any post on MMORPG.com since I have been a memember.
No actually, that's a logical fallacy. Go look it up, please. The burden of proof in any situation rests on the party trying to prove something into existence, not on the party trying to prove it doesn't exist. I don't want to get into an argument about theology, but if I were to theoretically not believe in God, then there is no way for me to actually prove that he doesn't exist. Anything I do can be reasoned with. For example, if I were to say "God doesn't exist because you cannot see him," you could just respond "God maybe invisible to the human eye." I cannot counter that. This creates a logical fallacy. What does this mean? Since it is literally impossible to prove something into unexistence, then you have to prove it into existence. It is a rule of language.
How does this relate to Darkfall? I cannot prove that Darkfall doesn't exist. It is impossible. This means that you have to provide the evidence of its existence. What evidence do you have? Some words by developers and 17 minutes of combat with almost no UI shown and no sandbox elements evident. That is not Darkfall. You have to provide actual concrete evidence. A beta test. A gameplay video that shows an actual sandbox game with expanded UI.
Arguing against this point merely shows your ignorance, not only in the gaming sense, but in language and logic as a whole. You must provide proof, because I cannot.
How is that a logical arguement? It is impossiable for me to prove Darkfall exist so the burden of proof is on proving its real? Seriously please think about that and tell me that has any logic to it at all.
The burden of proof always lies on both sides, never on one side. You must prove it does not exist and I must prove it does exist. Just like in the American court system, You must prove I did the crime, while I must prove I did not do the crime. Its simple logic.
With any good debate the burden of proof is on both sides. If it is impossiable to proof that Darkfall exist then logically Darkfall does exist. How hard is that to understand?
I have developer logs, Video's, Screenshots, Beta sign up pages, a publisher as my proof. You only have your opinion as proof. Logic againt states that I have the proof and you do not..... Their for its on you to disprove my proof which you cannot.
It is very admirable for "one" person to speak on behalf of the whole community and try to apologize for something that has not happened yet.
i have read many forums on Darkfall and many threads and YES, I have read many that go like this, "man i can't wait to gank those dam noobs" or, "my clan is going to pillage and plunder anything and anyone we see" noticed the word "clan" which means "many" so after reading this, I feel very discouraged, as so many potential players, who actually want to explore the greatness of the game by him or herself without worrying about getting a knife in the back and loosing some of your stuff.
FIRST of all, looking at this game my first question is " why should we pay a subscription for this" there are already some PVP MMO's that are quiet good, look original OP i'm sorry this game is gonna FLOP ok, it is outdated, and fine if you guys want to have a small community so be it, because that's what is going too be, a small community of gankers running around for 2 or 3 years until you get tired of it? where's the dungeon element of it? is there one? where's the adventure? no, dont think so im staying away, good luck with your Ganking community
Well as far as your dungeon element, it is as far as we understand very dynamic. When you find a dungeon their will be a differenet monster hiding in that dungeon each time you go to clear it.
The adventure? That is what is great about Darkfall, its like the pick your own adventure books.... Your only limitation on your adventure is your creativity as Darkfall is all about player freedom and choice. Yes PvP will be a big part of the world but so will PvE... I will bet their will be players that do very little PvP in Darkfall.
Comments
My question is.. how the hell could that isildur guy not think WoW is a gankfest? That's like -all- that goes on there. Consequences for actions balances it. People who gank and grief will be hunted, I'm sure. Always ways to get people back in darkfall.
The fun thing about you? Once all your little kitty friends become tire of swinging teh hammer leik in teh video they will quit. If the game is any good at that point, there will be an influx of new players. The second gen players will be more the "other" mmo crowd, and if your game wants to continue making money, they wil soften sort of liek L2.
You have always had PvP options, almost every game has a PvP server. I just can't wait to see youback here complaining both 1) How you got ganked or 2) How you got nerfed or 3) How the game is all care-bear in 6 months after release or 4) How no one plays anymore.
I played WH beta, it's not even salvageable (WoW, graphics and all). This game doesn't stand a chance. Just an opinion.
Anyone who thinks that a "PvP server" is equivalent to open PvP has no idea what they are talking about.
UO and AC Darktide showed us the potential and flaws of open PvP. The Darkfall developers are disciples of those games, and have combined the good from those games, with their own style and innovative new features.
If you don't like it, tough. The game is coming out and we will all see then.
As for representing the Darkfall community, I would say that I represent "forumfall" pretty well. I'll be nice and civil if I see nice and civil. MMORPG.com has always been hostile to Darkfall, so I am hostile to MMORPG.com
As you can see, my join date for this site is '04, yet I only have a handful of posts. My SOLE reason for being on here is to defend Darkfall. I've done so for years, and with beta coming close, I won't let the naysayers get the better of us.
Apologizing is not the in the style of Darkfall. If I could, I could kill and loot you. Unfortunately, the forums don't have those features, so my posts will have to suffice.
I only hope that the main community is more like arct and not like you.
If not, DF wont survive.
im ussally nice
geese glad everyone will get to try before they buy
Speak for yourself, I am not apoligizing anything.
When trolls come to this board and start hating on DF with their unfounded bullshit posts, then I reserve the right to flame the shit out of them.
You dont see me going to other boards and start anything though.
Khael[SUN]
SUN - peekayin since pong
Webdeveloper on:
http://www.guildofsun.com
http://www.bloodmonarchy.com
Thank you OP, very well put.
__________________________________________________
In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten
So true.
What haters been doing here on the Darkfall board over the years is totally unforgivable. They more or less ruined the possibility to have any sort of game related discussions.
Every thread was destroyed by nay-sayers and haters. Darkfall fans were always in defence stand which in itself is nothing but amazing. Having to defend the game against the ones with no interest in it? Whats that?
So seems the bridges is burned and i wont be the one rebuilding them.
Have a nice one
Apologize for what?
Hyping the game we like?
Dehyping the games we dont like?
Thats the purpose of the hypemeter.
If someone made alts they did wrong. And this apply also to the haters that made alts to dehype Darkfall.
The hatred towards Darkfall latest year have come from some of the most immature individuals in the history of game websites. Wasnt one thread that werent ruined by the haters and no-sayers.
These Darkfall haters dont deserve any appologize from the Darkfall fans hyping Darkfall and dehyping games they dont like.
And what about the people that is not a DF hater? Or do you think the human race is now divided only between DF lovers and DF haters.
Appologize for hyping Darkfall? You're kidding i hope. Appologize for dehyping a game i dont like? I hate all carebear games and wouldnt play them even if i got payed doing it. I dont appologize to anyone cause i have my personal taste for games. And you dont see me roam the carebear sites trolling them. A huge difference to the trolls invading Darkfall site.
I never thought the OP was apologizing to the DF trolls. I thought he was apologizing to all the people that are having a very "interesting" show of how some fanatic people can act.
Calling people fanatics cause they hype the game they like and dehype the ones they dont like is nothing but hillarious. Thats the purpose of that hypelist.
All MMO have fanatics. Dont you remember how high AoC was rated after release in here? If you are trying to show that DF is not different than other MMOs (which are full of fanatic people) you achieved your objective. Well done!!! DF community is not different than all the WAR fanbois, WoW fanbois, AoC fanbois.
Darkfall have the most loyal fans of any game arround and i salute them for it. And whats the purpose being a fan if you cant express it? What is fanatic about giving Darkfall a 10 on the hypeboard?=)
Now try to tell people to come to a FFA PvP w/full looting, which is full of fanatics too.
ROFL. The ones enjoying the game will stay, the ones that dont enjoy the game or the enviroment will of course leave. And? Your point? If they cant handle the hardcore aspects of the game or enjoy the griefings that WILL take place then Darkfall isnt a game for them. Simple as that.
Have a nice one
Yes, I can elaborate.
FFA PvP is not for all. Less with full looting.
True. Some will like it, some wont. And?
You and others arent informing people. Just hyping. And you will be success! Many people will buy DFO on the hype and find it NOT to be what they were looking for.
Im one of the fans that tried to contribute the most of informing about the game. Its been a never ending hill though to try to get through with all the haters and nay-sayers thats been lurking this Darkfall board. So no excuses whatsoever needed from the fans that done their best to inform on the game.
People will be able to try this game out fully for free before buying it. If they like it they buy and subscribe. If its not a game for them then they will not buy it.
Then the whines and the cancels. And in the end it will happen what happened to every single FFA PvP MMO ever released: it will mutate to a more carebear environment or die.
If they dont understand the fundamental game mechanisms in the game then either adapt or move on.
Soon you will find playing with yourself and Uzik.
If game delivers we will be playing a very successful sandbox with or without carebears. The hardcore PvP community in itself can carry the game with ease. Full loot and griefing is what alot of players seeks in a game. Its not all cup of tea of course. But isnt it nice they can go back to one of the numerous carebear games arround then?
You dont like my opinion? You think I am wrong? That not only DF will be all that is promised, without bugs and with uberness all around... but you think it will have a player base that will economically support it and that Aventurine will hold their beleives to the end?
That's your opinion. Mine is what I said. And if the DF community is like you adn Uzik... then you will just ruin the game.
I know there are asshats in all MMOs. I just hope you are the minority.
Aye youre most definetly wrong if you think the developers will need to go carebear with Darkfall. Going carebear and adapt on whining carebears will destroy the game though. Developers is hardcore PvP gamers making this game as much for themself as for the community, didnt you know that?=)
Theyre hardcore PvP:ers and will in no way make Darkfall go carebear. If game delivers and the hardcore community accept it they wont need any carebears. So carebears in Darkfall, adapt or take the highroad. Dont forget to close the door on the way out.
Heres a quote from Claus, one of the original developers of Darkfall:
"if we can recreate just a little of that first magic in UO with darkfall, my life has been
worthwhile." You think Claus would let Darkfall go carebear?=)
Good post OP. All I have to say about all the Forumfall tough talkers is they have a rude awakening coming to them if they take these attitudes into an open PvP environment. I've played enough games with similar PvP rulesets to know what is going to happen to them if they do. They are going to get ganked alot just for running their mouths in game and they will be the ones coming to the forums and whining about it. I've seen it before all too many times. They will either adapt their attitudes for the better or they will be driven out of the game as they will be on a lot of KoS lists otherwise. Don't worry about them as they will either smarten up or they will be on the wrong side of a ganking all too often, of this I have no doubt.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
Your totally wrong.
All threads that have a discussion going on goes real well until a troll or no-sayer enters the thread. Thats the point when all threads here the last years have gone out of the window.
Either you havent been arround this board and experienced it or you're just trolling.
But have to say that the fans have retaken this Darkfall site and theres been alot more constructive discussions lately. Dont blame the fans for poor discussions though. Blame the troll and haters disrupting all attempts having one..
Have a nice one
Understood OP, every game's community has it zealots, and they are difficult to deal with no matter which side they fall on.
I laughed at the post that said DFO doesn't need MMORPG.com (like its a live entity or something), but I'd point out this site has over 900,000 registered members, which is likely to be about 750K members more than DFO's final sub base. Seems like they might need a few of us over there to feed the gankers or something.
I'll tell you what hardcore fanbois, DFO is my game, not yours. It never needed you to defend it, but it sure needs my money to keep it alive. Better hope I show up, (along with people like me) or DFO won't survive as a viable game. (unless of course, you enjoy 50k subscribers, its enough to play certainly)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You don't have to apologize, but you also can't refer to nay-sayer posts as "unfounded." Nay-sayers have more proof than any Darkfall supporter as of now. Why? Because the burden of proof lasts on those trying to prove something exists, not on the ones trying to prove it does not. Asking those who don't believe in DFO to prove it doesn't exist makes as much sense as trying to prove God doesn't exist. It is impossible to do because it is impossible to un-prove anything. What I'm saying here is that if you believe in DFO, then you're the one that has to prove that its real, not the other way around.
Until Beta starts or we get some substantial gameplay videos (featuring UI and more than just combat), we have every right to not believe in Darkfall. Where is the proof of its existence? I could write a design document about a game where you train miniature poodles, and write a developer update every two weeks, but that doesn't make the game real.
To the OP: I appreciate your maturity and understand that you're trying to help, but I warn you that it will most likely be a fruitless effort. You will be flamed by fanboys and nay-sayers alike. Still, this community has to understand that the burden rests on the believers and no one else.
I would like to thank everyone that has contributed so far. I don't have too much time to post so this wont be as long or coherent as I would like.
First, I'm not apologizing to the anti-dfo trolls that may be on these forums. This apology is for people that have been somewhat interested in the game, but turned off by the community. It is also for new people that find the game because of the hype meter.
Edit: I'm also not apologizing for any of the hype meter stuff. If it was done with only one account per person, then I am lenient with that.
Yes, with all of our glory, our hyping and de-hyping people will suddenly find out about darkfall. What then? They come to these forums, go to the darkfall forums and see nothing but children bickering and fighting. I certainly wouldn't join this community if I didn't know as much as I do about the game and haven't been following it for the past 5 years.
That is primarily who this apology is for. While you (they) may see a lot of trolling, bickering and all around d-baggery (censored to keep the mods happy.) not all of the darkfall community is like this.
Darkfall essentially has two factions: Forumfall, and the rest of the community.
Forumfall is what happened when people had to wait more than a few years for the game. They got bored, bitter and hurtful. They are easily offended if you attack darkfall and will strike back brutally to defend it. These are a majority of the people you see flaming people on the forums, fighting back against trolls on this site, and even the ones posting in this thread. These are many of the people that are interested in ganking, looting you dry, and just being genuine jerks.
Then you have the rest of the community. While many of them maybe have participated in 'forumfall' in the earlier years, the game is nearing release now. We know that community is important, and we want to bring people into our community. There are many clans in the game that focus on crafting or defending people. Many guilds have a mature atmosphere and goals.
Lets jump over to the clan forums for a second and see what we can find.
You will have to log into the darkfall site to be able to see these forums. If you don't already have an account this would be a great time to sign up, apply for the beta and just look for the polite members of the community. It can't hurt you to at least give the game a try
Here is one guilds recruitment thread. They are called Bad Boys for Life (named fondly after the will smith movie)
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=67663
At least one of their members has posted in this thread. Another was responsible for the "OMG darkfall number 1 on hype meter soon!@!11" If you look at their members on this site and on darkfall you get an idea about some of their players. Not all of them are bad, or rather B@D. I have seen quite a few that are good decent people.
But for example lets take a look at another clan. This one is called Society of the Anvil.
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=67636
They have a much nicer layout for their post, and clearly put time into it. They have information about the guild, and what makes them different. From the posts alone you can start to see a difference.
I am speaking on behalf of people like the anvil society. The people the understand not everyone is a pimple faced 12 year old that wants to gank and be ganked endlessly. We know that not everyone has the time to constantly be running to their body, or getting started up again every 10 minutes.
Look to these guilds for a community, look to these clans for what potential darkfall has. Try to ignore the rest of 'forumfall' as they will hopefully be a minority once the game comes out.
There were a few peoples posts I wanted to respond to, but do not have time at the moment. You may be receiving a pm from me later.
You don't have to apologize, but you also can't refer to nay-sayer posts as "unfounded." Nay-sayers have more proof than any Darkfall supporter as of now. Why? Because the burden of proof lasts on those trying to prove something exists, not on the ones trying to prove it does not. Asking those who don't believe in DFO to prove it doesn't exist makes as much sense as trying to prove God doesn't exist. It is impossible to do because it is impossible to un-prove anything. What I'm saying here is that if you believe in DFO, then you're the one that has to prove that its real, not the other way around.
Until Beta starts or we get some substantial gameplay videos (featuring UI and more than just combat), we have every right to not believe in Darkfall. Where is the proof of its existence? I could write a design document about a game where you train miniature poodles, and write a developer update every two weeks, but that doesn't make the game real.
To the OP: I appreciate your maturity and understand that you're trying to help, but I warn you that it will most likely be a fruitless effort. You will be flamed by fanboys and nay-sayers alike. Still, this community has to understand that the burden rests on the believers and no one else.
The burden of proof lays with the people saying Darkfall is fake or a hoax. We have all the proof we need Darkfall is real, its up to the Naysayers to prove other wise.
Just like its up to the naysayers to prove God is not real, its up to the naysayers to prove that Darkfall is fake or a hoax.
As far as the naysayers having proof? I have not seen one piece of this so called proof in any post on MMORPG.com since I have been a memember.
To the OP: I think you are trying to do the right thing but it means very little, Darkfall has been under attack since forever and will be long after release. Darkfall is a game that may finally bring the MMORPG genre back from the depths it has fallen and some are scared by it.
To the Fanbois: We have every right to bash the trolls and make them eat their words, it has been a long year with all the arguements on these forums againts the naysayers. Now we finally have all the proof we need.
To anyone else: Darkfall is all about player Freedom, yes its FFA PvP with Full loot but that adds more player freedom. Darkfall is just the tool that will provide players the freedom we require.
Sooner or Later
No actually, that's a logical fallacy. Go look it up, please. The burden of proof in any situation rests on the party trying to prove something into existence, not on the party trying to prove it doesn't exist. I don't want to get into an argument about theology, but if I were to theoretically not believe in God, then there is no way for me to actually prove that he doesn't exist. Anything I do can be reasoned with. For example, if I were to say "God doesn't exist because you cannot see him," you could just respond "God maybe invisible to the human eye." I cannot counter that. This creates a logical fallacy. What does this mean? Since it is literally impossible to prove something into unexistence, then you have to prove it into existence. It is a rule of language.
How does this relate to Darkfall? I cannot prove that Darkfall doesn't exist. It is impossible. This means that you have to provide the evidence of its existence. What evidence do you have? Some words by developers and 17 minutes of combat with almost no UI shown and no sandbox elements evident. That is not Darkfall. You have to provide actual concrete evidence. A beta test. A gameplay video that shows an actual sandbox game with expanded UI.
Arguing against this point merely shows your ignorance, not only in the gaming sense, but in language and logic as a whole. You must provide proof, because I cannot.
---------------------------
Said by someone above me:
To the Fanbois: We have every right to bash the trolls and make them eat their words, it has been a long year with all the arguements on these forums againts the naysayers. Now we finally have all the proof we need.
----------------------------------------
God I hate these forums.
I would argue otherwise. Ignore the trolls, don't feed them, don't give them more to work with. Trolls live to piss people off the mroe you fight with them the better. If you DO insist on fighting the trolls, be smart about it
"are you dumb? darkfall is real and the gameplay will be awesome. you're just hurt because your game sucks."
This is not fighting the trolls, or making them eat their words. This is counter trolling, and does nothing helpful. It gives the trolls what they want, a reaction. And anyone else that sees it just things our community is a bunch of children.
If you really want to fight the trolls, have detailed posts. Write out why they are wrong, use structure, avoid personal attacks. Give them dev quotes, clips, posts, anything thats solid proof that proves your point. It wont do anything for the trolls, but at least any outside that looks at the forums will see the correct information, and might even think "Wow, look at that helpful member of the community" THAT is what we need.
That will do more to silence the trolls than anything else. Trolls don't care if theres a gameplay trailer, or beta signups. Big deal. Could easily be faked. That doesn't mean anything. You don't need to silence the trolls, or bash the trolls, you just need to show everyone else that the person IS a troll and doesn't know anything about what they're talking about by giving proof. Saying "You don't know what you're talking about, troll." is not proof.
It's a forum like all others. Maybe a bit less moderated though. The DF forums are not much better, I am sick to death from trolls who hate the game for the sake of hating and from l33t kiddies waiting to pwn and shouting carebears to all they see.
I didn't read all the pages. But what I'm going to say is one thing. The community does matter. If a name comes out of a game being full of griefers and gankers, of people with no respect to each other, even if it is the greatest game in the world, it'll turn out to be a failure.
I personally think the game's graphics is a bit old, compared to what I saw in AoC and what WAR will *hopefully* be. The combat seems nice and fast-paced, it might be truely awesome. But if even part of the community sucks and the game turns to be a thriving spot full of griefers, then few of the mature community will stay long.
And as we all know, MMO games live from the subscription fee. So a plea to all DF fans - don't kill the game before it's out.
The problem is we cannot have a good discussion on these boards because the naysayers show up and ruin the thread, derails it. You have to fight fire with fire, have we learned nothing in history at all?
Its a great theroy indeed to fight evil with goodness but that is not how the real world works. You fight evil with Evil, that is how you beat it, History has show this over and over.
Sooner or Later
Thank you stormreaver for being an example. Now folks. This person, is NOT a troll. He's not bashing the game, he's just stating that a gameplayer trailer doesn't mean anything. And he's right. Anyone with some know how could take a game like RUNE, change some models, make a map or two and create a 17 minute long video.
I'm not saying that this is the case. I don't think thats the case at all. But he is not unfounded in his opinion.
To counteract this, we talk to him. Stormreaver, Friend, I understand that you are uneasy about the game. I can see how someone would find it hard to believe in darkfall from a few words from the devs and a gameplay video (we restate why he is untrusting and unbelieving). However, isn't that how all games start out? A few devs saying that they're working on a game?
Yes, for a game like darkfall that has been in development for a while, it is harder to believe it actually exists. Lets look at World of Warcraft. According to Wikipedia (not the best source, but good enough for this argumnet). "Blizzard Entertainment announced World of Warcraft on September 2, 2001" and wasn't released until "November 23, 2004"
So say it took about 3 years for the game to be released from when it was announced. However, factor in that Blizzard is considerably larger than Aventurine, they have been making games longer, and they had at least 3 games worth of backstory, locations, and characters to draw from for the game. That alone can easily explain a large portion of the time difference. Add to that the fact that we don't know how much work, time, effort and money went into WoW before it was even announced. Anyone that is familiar with Blizzard and their business knows that they generally dont announce things until it is in a position to be shown off. Look at D3 and SC2. When they were announced they had some pretty good looking gameplay following with them.
Darkfall on the other hand announced the game as they were starting from the ground up. I believe there are interviews of them talking about working on the network architecture back in 2001-2002. Something that needed to be done before they could even start working on the game itself. Again something that adds a considerable amount of time to the process.
You also mentioned the lack of UI in the video. If you look at the pictures on many of the darkfall websites their are screenshots of the UI. In the video there are also short scenes that show the UI as well. Darkfall is suppose to have a minimalistic UI. There isn't much there on purpose as they want you to feel a part of the game.
A common argument is that the UI could have easily been photoshoped/edited in. Sadly, I have no way to disprove this until people start getting into beta, so for this argument all I can do is say, "just wait an see."
If information like this still does not convince you (or trolls) please let me know why. What makes you catious or unbelieving? Many games have very similar set ups for their games. They show gameplay videos, or just have a few screenshots, yet people trust and believe in the games. Some games just have cinematic trailers on their website that doesn't show anything about gameplay, yet people follow it.
What makes darkfall so different that people jump all over it?
To the Original OP
It is very admirable for "one" person to speak on behalf of the whole community and try to apologize for something that has not happened yet.
i have read many forums on Darkfall and many threads and YES, I have read many that go like this, "man i can't wait to gank those dam noobs" or, "my clan is going to pillage and plunder anything and anyone we see" noticed the word "clan" which means "many" so after reading this, I feel very discouraged, as so many potential players, who actually want to explore the greatness of the game by him or herself without worrying about getting a knife in the back and loosing some of your stuff.
FIRST of all, looking at this game my first question is " why should we pay a subscription for this" there are already some PVP MMO's that are quiet good, look original OP i'm sorry this game is gonna FLOP ok, it is outdated, and fine if you guys want to have a small community so be it, because that's what is going too be, a small community of gankers running around for 2 or 3 years until you get tired of it? where's the dungeon element of it? is there one? where's the adventure? no, dont think so im staying away, good luck with your Ganking community
The problem is we cannot have a good discussion on these boards because the naysayers show up and ruin the thread, derails it. You have to fight fire with fire, have we learned nothing in history at all?
Its a great theroy indeed to fight evil with goodness but that is not how the real world works. You fight evil with Evil, that is how you beat it, History has show this over and over.
Aye thats how it works. arcturussage is as i see it living up in the clouds or he isnt aware of what the climate of this site used to be and still is. This Darkfall site have been more or less destroyed by the Darkfall haters and no-sayers.
Whats good to see last weeks is that there been more constructive threads.
Lets hope its here to stay.
Have a nice one
No actually, that's a logical fallacy. Go look it up, please. The burden of proof in any situation rests on the party trying to prove something into existence, not on the party trying to prove it doesn't exist. I don't want to get into an argument about theology, but if I were to theoretically not believe in God, then there is no way for me to actually prove that he doesn't exist. Anything I do can be reasoned with. For example, if I were to say "God doesn't exist because you cannot see him," you could just respond "God maybe invisible to the human eye." I cannot counter that. This creates a logical fallacy. What does this mean? Since it is literally impossible to prove something into unexistence, then you have to prove it into existence. It is a rule of language.
How does this relate to Darkfall? I cannot prove that Darkfall doesn't exist. It is impossible. This means that you have to provide the evidence of its existence. What evidence do you have? Some words by developers and 17 minutes of combat with almost no UI shown and no sandbox elements evident. That is not Darkfall. You have to provide actual concrete evidence. A beta test. A gameplay video that shows an actual sandbox game with expanded UI.
Arguing against this point merely shows your ignorance, not only in the gaming sense, but in language and logic as a whole. You must provide proof, because I cannot.
How is that a logical arguement? It is impossiable for me to prove Darkfall exist so the burden of proof is on proving its real? Seriously please think about that and tell me that has any logic to it at all.
The burden of proof always lies on both sides, never on one side. You must prove it does not exist and I must prove it does exist. Just like in the American court system, You must prove I did the crime, while I must prove I did not do the crime. Its simple logic.
With any good debate the burden of proof is on both sides. If it is impossiable to proof that Darkfall exist then logically Darkfall does exist. How hard is that to understand?
I have developer logs, Video's, Screenshots, Beta sign up pages, a publisher as my proof. You only have your opinion as proof. Logic againt states that I have the proof and you do not..... Their for its on you to disprove my proof which you cannot.
What you got next?
Sooner or Later
Well as far as your dungeon element, it is as far as we understand very dynamic. When you find a dungeon their will be a differenet monster hiding in that dungeon each time you go to clear it.
The adventure? That is what is great about Darkfall, its like the pick your own adventure books.... Your only limitation on your adventure is your creativity as Darkfall is all about player freedom and choice. Yes PvP will be a big part of the world but so will PvE... I will bet their will be players that do very little PvP in Darkfall.
Sooner or Later
whole lot of energy being wasted here.
this thread also.