Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
WAR's Market is Casuals
fingis
Member Posts: 207
1. Easy to learn pvp. No complex pvp features like stealth, fear, mind control, charge, blink, feign death, and so on.
2. Easy pve. No group quests. Quests are simple fedex or kill X items.
3. No preparation. Don't need to harvest for food or drink. Consumables are limited.
4. Twink gear is easy to come by. Gear is a huge part of the game but, if you know where to buy it, you can get gear easily. No need to group up to farm that boss for those boots.
4a. No need to make decisions about gear. There is only one set of uber gear to grind for. There are no complicated stats like haste or resilience.
4b. Simplified talent trees.
5. Travel is minimal or instant. The 'hearth stone' equivalent doesn't have a cool down. That eliminates time traveled to half.
Some say WoW is EQ dumbed down. WAR is WoW dumbed down.
Is this what the masses want?
Comments
Apparently, yes.
As noble as Mythic might want their cause to appear, their aim is to make money. Catering for the casual market is going to be much more profitable than pandering to niche tastes.
exactly. the time for no_life nerds has come and gone my friend.
You are forgeting the fun factor. War seems able to provide it and thats what is important isnt it?
PS: a lot of quests in war are actually surprinsingly orginal and with a fine 'fresh' scent on them. not just kill and gut rolecalls.
You'd think somone could possbily come up with fresh points to discuss, but if you check on Fingis and his previous posts you'll see that all of them voice the same worn-out complaints. Some even claim he'll buy the game; but most are lamentations of a child who was raised on WoW and wishes his next game to be the incarnation of WoW. Not to insinuate that WoW is dead by any means, I wish it well...it needs to take some of its old subbers back. They are getting annoying in-game and on the forums.
------------------
Originally posted by javac
well i'm 35 and have a PhD in science, and then 10 years experience in bioinformatics... you?
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/218865/page/8
Yep, some people have lives and must work in order to survive. We dont want second jobs, we want to enjoy a game in the setting we like.
No pointless wastes of time.
Oh and there are group quests, you just dont have to spend 6 hrs to find someone to do them with you. The gear is also simplistic at the moment as its only open beta/ release......when i played wow the gear was simple too.
Talents trees could be better, but wait and see how it progresses through the games life.
Travelling is better, sorry but sitting on a windrider flying along just dont do it for some people mate, wastes minutes of your life away. When i think about how much time i played wow and spent on windriders...
Im liking WAR so far in OB, its something fresh and doesnt feel like a failiure like VG,AoC etc..
My ideal MMORPG will never exist...UO is dead and gone..so i will play whatever is fun.
No stealth? Really, how much have you been playing? Both Witch Hunters and Witch Elfs can stealth, and I think Engineers had some sort of camouflage skill dont remember what that actually was though
you think this game is trying to be a mmoRPG it is not that at all
it is a version of the WarHammer IP made to be a action MMO.
best way to explane how this game is made would be to take the table top game boards that people take hours to make and place one miniature at one end and walk him around, in no way is this game a hard core RPG and if you think it is going in you will be mistaken and angry like most of you that are posting negative reviews here.
this is not the 1st warhammer game ever made, look at other video games they made they are RTS real time or trun base, this game is like a singler unite RTS style game, only real way i can explane how i think the game feels to me
exactly. the time for no_life nerds has come and gone my friend.
You are forgeting the fun factor. War seems able to provide it and thats what is important isnt it?
PS: a lot of quests in war are actually surprinsingly orginal and with a fine 'fresh' scent on them. not just kill and gut rolecalls.
What fun factor? Sorry, one of the biggest let downs for me of WAR is its lack of complexity and challenge. "Fun Factor" is an opinion, so nobody is "forgetting" anything.
exactly. the time for no_life nerds has come and gone my friend.
You are forgeting the fun factor. War seems able to provide it and thats what is important isnt it?
PS: a lot of quests in war are actually surprinsingly orginal and with a fine 'fresh' scent on them. not just kill and gut rolecalls.
What fun factor? Sorry, one of the biggest let downs for me of WAR is its lack of complexity and challenge. "Fun Factor" is an opinion, so nobody is "forgetting" anything.
Hey if putting your nuts in a vise is fun for you go ahead and do it but I think the guy you're quoting is saying casual games are fun and I agree with him. I wouldn't go as far as saying windriders are a long travel time cause compared to other games they're nothing but in general most of the players don't want to play a game that blatantly wastes their time.
Your still trolling WaR ?, and still obviously haven't played it enough to remark on much of anything you say .
1. You bring those same things up every time is that all you think pvp is, some of those type skills are in game in some form. The pvp in war has a lot more complex tactics than just that and i do not see much need for many things you listed , and before you ask no im not going to explain it to you , play the game more, i have seen s lot in the 20 levels we have .
2. If your talking npc given quests i have found both Epic and group quests , epic being long chain quests that span multiple chapters , i found some group quests in IC for the sacellium Dungeons there , lv 13-15-17 Dungeons . Other than that just about all the final stages of PQ's and a lot of the second stages are group quests , specialy the ones you get into once your in chapter 8-9 area's you realy need a group for the later stages.
4.4a Iv seen a bit of rare gear from named champ's out in the world and random drop's that are as good as the rr/pq gear , in the sacellium dungeons iv seen items better than the 14rr gear and some items that were part of a multi item set so yes there are other things than just the pq/rr gear to hunt for that is as good or better.
5. The only insta travel so far is from one warcamp to another that you have been to , and the book that takes you to the rally master does have a cool down , was like 30 min to an hour cant remember . I just got my mount and it comes in very handy already, no travel isn't super long , but it feels good .
All this is based on the first 20 levels of the game , the starter level's and as is with most mmorpg's most of the "cool" stuff comes later in the game .
That's one of the things I'm liking about this game. Not much time wasted on anything. What I would like to see though is that the things that are considered a waste of time in most MMOs were actually converted or changed in design to be fun, rather then removing them completely. I myself, though, don't know many solutions to this problem.
who isn't casual these days..i have more important things to do than play video games, i play for fun and not to be leet or hardcore..enjoy a game for what it is. In war i can have fun from level 1, no other mmo provides this. fun is what its all about at the end of the day.
_______
|___
\_______/
=
|X| \*........*/ |X|
|X|_________|X|
You wouldn't understand
Not much use responding to fingis with any kind of reason. He will just ignore it and rehash the same worn out crap over and over and over. He will ignore anything remotely reasonable and pick out some random post that has nothing to do with his post and try to spin it. He says he will play the game, but continues to troll the boards day in and day out.
Besides what other have said, and not even trying to talk any sense into fingis anymore all I will say is that most of the players I know in WAR are pretty hardcore, and have plans to take 2-3 chars to cap as fast as possible and participate in end game RvR. Since fingis probably hasn't been past T1 based on all of his posts he wouldn't know anything about this though. The game is casual friendly and I like that, but there are many thousands of hardcore players that have already spent hundreds of hours in beta and are gearing up for launch. I guess fingis just wants to get back to grinding endlessly for gear that will always be surpassed by new seasons and expansions and fighting that has no impact on the World.
All your numerical points - You have no effing clue, though
for honesty in choosing your avatar.
The final question - Yes. My mass wants this.
Yep, fingis is the worst of trolls and just posts this same nonsense every week even though people have already proven most of what he says wrong.
i have had more fun at lvl 5 in war than i did at max level in wow. war is just plain fun, simple.
This sums up WAR pretty well. It's not a bad thing though, it's easy to use it as a filler MMO, something to play inbetween raid nights.
This sums up WAR pretty well. It's not a bad thing though, it's easy to use it as a filler MMO, something to play inbetween raid nights.
I guess some people will see it as that. I can't imagine going back to raiding though.
I'm glad WAR is very casual-friendly. It's nice to be able to jump into PVP right away and know that you can actually contribute something meaningful in every battle.
Waiting for Fallen Earth, World of Darkness, Old Republic, FFXIV
How on earth can you call wow complicated? it's easy so 13 year olds can play it and learn the genre
Here's to OP: I wrote this a while back, but by the time I'd finished, I couldn't post 'cuz the site wouldn't respond.
First of all, your 'complex' features include a few I'd like to see gone, and you're dead wrong about at least one. One of the things Mythic wanted to do with RvR was make it so you couldn't just get stunlocked for the rest of your life, or lose control of your character; at -all times-, you are in control of your character. No running around feared, no standing around and swaying on your feet from a pair of rogues endlessly stunning you. That stuff was bullshit, it's why I hated WoW PvP, and I welcome the loss. Also, stealth definitely exists. Learn to research.
Secondly... no group quests? Are you out of your mind? Public Quests take big groups of people to finish a lot of the time, and the hidden lairs (yes, they're hidden, you need to -find them-) have big beasties which require much cooperation. PvE quests are -all- fedex and kill-this quests; the group quests just tend to be kill-this quests in great numbers or with non-soloable bad guys.
Consumables WERE limited, and have very recently been buffed. Food or drink are outmoded concepts anyway; they're looking to reduce downtime, which is awesome; having to sit between pulls and drink is damn near as tedious as having to make camp to memorize spells; it didn't go from old-school D&D into more than one MMO because it -wasn't fun-.
Twink gear is now no longer easy to come by. Most of the early RvR gear one can pick up from Renown merchants is now free of extra stats at low levels and scales much more easily with PvE gear. I find myself playing Public Quests for upgrades to weapons and armor now, and filling in the blanks with RvR gear thanks to its ease of purchase.
Of course there's a need to make decisions about gear. Every level has several sets of gear one can come by, and each of them is tailored to a different playstyle. Personally, I look for heavy Strength and Weapon Skill items on my Witch Hunter; I'm paper-thin most of the time, but my Talisman Making allows me to fill in that gap by buffing my resistances and Toughness.
I agree that talent trees are simplified, but it's because they're not talent trees. They're essentially meters that you fill with spare abilities and tactics to be found as you level up. The thing about this, however, is that each ability which is not a Core ability is tied to one of these trees, and each ability, by the point invested, is buffed. You can decide "Okay, I use Absolution a lot" and then you go to buff Absolution and realize that Razor Strike is in a different tree, and it's your main Accusation-adding ability. There are decisions to be made here; the fact that it looks simple doesn't mean that it is, and needless layers of complexity only muddle things up. There's just as much customization here as there is in WoW.
Travel is not minimal. You have to walk a lot of places, either to a Warcamp to catch a flight, or back and forth in general. If you're complaining about the Book of Binding being an instant-cooldown hearthstone, it's obviously been a while since you played. They made it that way so that beta testers could get the fuck around and spend more time testing the mechanics and balance and less time strolling through big fields. The Book of Binding now has a one-hour cooldown, just like its cousin in Azeroth.
WoW was not EQ dumbed down. I dislike WoW these days, but I always defend it on this point; WoW is an iteration of EQ with parts which are not adding value for the player cut or changed to be more fun and less of a hassle. WoW's always-succeeding crafting system seemed very strange to me at the beginning, but once you start burning through Pristine Hides of the Beast (forgive me, it's been a while since I played, I don't know what the big crafting drops are anymore) you start to appreciate that design decision. Do you want to burn a thousand-gold object because you didn't roll high enough? No one does. It adds a little danger, but who the fuck wants to raid for hours on end to get another one just because a low roll ruined a unique item?
WAR is not WoW dumbed-down, either. A lot of folks are saying that WAR's race and class restrictions are terrible, but that's how the Warhammer universe works. You don't get Tyranid Space Marines, you don't get human Ironbreakers, you don't get some dwarf in a dress twirling around with a greatsword. Their classes were set years before WAR was even conceived thanks to the immense amount of lore Games Workshop had worked out.
I'm going to add here that attracting casual gamers is, in fact, a way for companies to make extra money on the same thing. Opening things up to the point where folks who aren't hardcore players can hop in and enjoy themselves is a pretty good thing, so long as it doesn't sacrifice gameplay for those of us who have been doing this a long time and appreciate solid design decisions and entertaining gameplay. I think WAR has both, despite the fact that it's easy enough for my girlfriend to hop in and play, and I've been enjoying figuring out how I should work my gear and maxing my stats where I want them to be. If the fact that this game can be played by a layman means that you've got layman dirt sullying your I Are Hardcore Gamarz, You All Failz feeling, then you should make like a dinosaur and turn the fuck into oil. Preferably quiet oil.
TL:DR; You should play the game at release instead of judging it by -closed beta content-, and also you should think before you open your God-forsaken mouth.
This sums up WAR pretty well. It's not a bad thing though, it's easy to use it as a filler MMO, something to play inbetween raid nights.
lol raid nights...you obviously haven't played war if you think its a dumbed down wow..firstly its an rvr game and secondly its more fun than wow could ever be..raiding is the most boring thing you can do with a keyboard. you are obviously still chasing blizzards carrot on a stick. good luck with that.
gah i hate when someone takes a long post, quotes it, then disects it comment by comment...
That being said, its easy to jump into pvp, but to be GOOD at rvr you must use teamwork. The fact you say that rvr isnt complex leads me to believe that your simply not using your mind in it, and are definatly not good at the rvr scenarios.
Group quests are called public quests, and you do them with whoevers around you, you really dont need to gruop with them, but youll need their help to complete them, PQ's offer some pretty good equipment rewards if you do them enough.
I agree that the best gear is availible though means other than camping bosses. You can get the best gear simply by participating in RvR scenarios and killing players, if you want.
The skill trees seem like they are not complex, but when you factor in renoun points (renoun stat upgrade trees) and mastery points, characters will have diffrent strong suits than others in their class. Also theres no chance of gimping your character, as you can reset everything.
Saying war is wow dumbed down tells me you really didnt get into the game much. It might seem dumbed down, but from what you have posted, you have no strategies, no tactics, and just went though war like you where playing wow, just pve'ing with no plan.
This game you need a good strategy, and you need to utelize every skill you get to be really good, especially in rvr.
My guess is that you played war to level 10 or under, and RvR'ed with no strategy, other than spamming attack skills, hell i did the same untill level 8ish, when i started to think about what i was doing and how i could improve. Im one of the few bright wizards ive seen able to tank several melee dps's until back up arrived and live, and i was able, in a group of 4, to take down a full destruction party in open field rvr, you need teamwork and strategies to do that.