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what REAL PvP looks like (AoC vs WAR)
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I wanted to like War but seriously, circle strafe-circle strafe nice pvp
The following statement is false
The previous statement is true
I must add, WARs graphics does look better than i expected in that vid.
That said, i see people mention "real" and "tactical" . First off, did i see collision detection there in the WAR vid, Nope? That dude is running right through the target AND pet/cat/tiger. Same thing WoW does...
At least i know AoC is real enough to have collision detection...even though it might be annoying and add to the whole problematic engine-processing required it's still "real" and requires some "tactics" to get "around" . It is amusing to walk into people and actually block their path
...i see "tactics" and "real" all over that concept..is it just me?
However i do know WAR will most probably be large-scale where these things might be trivial. This is why i have a pet-peeve with the particular vid, which show none of that. It shows small scale PvP....and i surely hope THAT is not the "tactical" PvP we're gonna get....
I'm sure 1vs1 or even 5vs5 PvP is not actually Warhammers claim to fame here is it?
There is a colision system..
He was doing alot more than it looks. His video has horrible quality and he was only doing 1v1. I dont know his level nore could i have seen if he had any Tactics or any Moral abilites.
But thats fine pass on WAR from bad video quality.
I hate youtube...... that video actually has VERY good quality.... but when youtube finished "processing it" if became horrible.
if you can link me a better site please do so....I will happily repost there so you guys can go to fullscreen and actually SEE things clearly
I haven't played AOC, but that videos pvp looked like a lot of fun (at least by my standards, as I like faster paced pvp). Playing the WAR ob, its pvp is ok, but it kind of got boring for me after a short while. Every time I went out to siege, the battles always ended up just being a big mexican standoff where each side just stood a big distance away from eachother, just waiting for someone to make a move (which only happened when a few people had the balls to go on the offensive and make martyrs of themselves to get their side rolling, and most of the time I had to be one of those guys). It basically equaled out to whoever had the biggest zerg wins and then the loosing side respawns and comes back after 5 seconds and it all happens over again. Senarios kind of ended up the same way for me too. Fun at first (reminded me a lot of Team Fortress 2). But again, nobody wants to be the guy leading the charge because they don't want to be the first one to get stomped (not even Chosen). The combat was a bit too slow for me as well. Hit one hot key, then the next, then the next, then start over again (no different than most mmos I've ever played though). By the time you finnish one person off, you dont have enough juice for the next guy (i guess that's why you regen your energy in a few seconds, but a few seconds is all it takes to get smoked by a mob of people as well).Don't get me wrong, it's not like this is any worse than any other mass pvp or rvr mmo out there. It has it's fun moments and it's easy to get into and the pvp is accessible to anyone, but it just kind of lost it's luster pretty fast in my eyes.
Live by your own rules, keep an open mind yourself.
Anyway. How can a video show how pvp looks like. Most PvP video regardless of game, kind of looks the same. The biggest difference is how the game looks. For all I know one could post a PvE video and name it PvP.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
I'll see your pepsi and raise you a coke.
Damn, who invited RC!!!
in other words, looks like most everything else...
It is funny how Warhammer is so much more polished than AoC is after 4 months of patches and War had working massive PVP in beta closed beta something AoC still cant get right.
Guess thats why Avery and Proteus are so worked up over Warhammer. Some of the blatant lies they have been posting makes me think Erling himself writes the material for them.
It would seem Avery and Proteus are making a last ditch attempt to hold the few subs AoC still has by posting more Failcom lies.
Participate in your first open RvR / Keep Siege and you will no doubt say what everyone I've met in Open Beta has said: OMG! I can't believe this is so fun!!
WAR has far more variety of things to do that AoC and it will absolutely be the best game for people that enjoy any form of PvP. Period. After playing both AoC and WAR. I can say that the gameplay, stability, class balance, and fun factor of WAR greatly surpasses AoC. Anyone that decides to give the two games a fair shot will more likely than stick with WAR.
WAR is not at all about grinding out levels just to hopefully participate in some fun stuff at max level. In WAR you hit the ground running from day 1 and exp flys in no matter what you're doing!
Now this video kicks ass. Compared to the above WAR video, it's a completely different level of gameplay
Shows the gifference between both games: WAR is a cartoon game (I don't see myself wanting to RPG in a cartoon game) while AoC is aiming for a different setting.
@OP
O cool, killing a guy by running around him, yes, thats real PvP *rolleyes*
My opinion is both are fun - however, for different reasons. I really like the battlefield/frontlines:fow like aspects of WAR. I love the fact it's design encourages mass PVP, I also like the fact that the engine runs it very well. However I am already getting bored with it. Much like I do with battlefield after an amount of time playing. There's only so many times I can run into the zerg before the novelty wears off.
AOC on the other hand seems to play much more like an RPG, maybe it's the atmosphere. Maybe it's the story lines and dialogue systems. I simply can play AOC for a greater length of time without growing bored.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Im still trying out warhammer, maybe i'll post the video where there is no line of sight, minimal C.D. and fire balls that travel through solid 50ft of rock and other terrain?
PvP XP in 5 days for AoC, no auto targetting, cone shaped spells and heals, better AoE effects, positional attacks, every class can stealth, mounted combat anywhere, smooth animations, siege weapons that can be moved and made by the player, Siege cities all player crafted, no population imbalance concerns, can PvP against people of any race or class, PvP teams that you can create and not created by the computer, better spell effects, fatalities, no 3 second delay in melee weapon swings, every class stamina controlled sprinting, snares and many other regular pvp additions.
War offers tried and tested PvP in a different skin with minimal note worthy additions in my opinion. Its good, but old.
I like war's pvp overall, and both games have their merits in this area. As a player my preferance is with the style presented in AoC. If what comes next week enhances that, then thats even better.
Thanks for posting the war vid makes for clearer perspectives in the bigger picture.
LOL you talk about the problems. Should we start once more down the AOC problem path? You really shouold just avoid responding to threads like this. Just brings your blind fanboyism to the forefront.
So lets see. New game with a few bugs that will be addressed or broken game that was missing half of its features at launch? Hmm.
Oh BTW. HOws that PvP patch coming months after release?
Fungerer som det skal
I think only one company mentioned being revolutionary. If revolutionary means broken and incomplete then consider it a success.
Personally while i would enjoy some out of the box thinking that worked , its not on the horizon so Ill play something that has potential, is run by people who don't lie at every opportunity and happily cruise along.
Fungerer som det skal
I think only one company mentioned being revolutionary. If revolutionary means broken and incomplete then consider it a success.
Personally while i would enjoy some out of the box thinking that worked , its not on the horizon so Ill play something that has potential, is run by people who don't lie at every opportunity and happily cruise along.
To be fair, I can't say that Mythic hasn't been sugarcoating their PR about OB. They've had quite a few problems, on top of that MJ kinda berated players in a blog about the EU fiasco. Does that mean anything to the quality of the product? No, at least not really. However, don't expect any company to not sugarcoat in PR, which in layman's terms is simply lying to save face.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I wish eve had pvp instead it has:
1) be minign or trading, get ganked by 4 guys all in ships that could solo you.
2) fly out to xx location get ready to pvp , engage enemy click orbit turn on all your reps and weapons. Now in real life go make a some food because, it doesn't get any more involved than that. After awhile one of the two sides will win and gratz you just watch pain dry, or something akin to it.
3) There is option 3 use drone, because drone are better than ships and all the time invested in them. (Heck id just fly around as a pack a drone if it was an option)
Now I like Eve i think its economy is freaking amazing , i love its advancement system, but its combat is thee worse in any known or even hardly known mmo (And well combat happens to be part of pvp). Asian grind games often have a better combat system than eve does. SWG JTLS STILL has better combat than eve (even if the rest of the game is trash).
Honestly , if CCP wanted to make eve 4 times bigger than it already is, it would work on a new server with a new combat system. (And let people mission together, and equally benifit, ie get group missions). Imagine Eve with a real combat system in place, could be rpg style, space sim (this would be the coolest), or other ;and it can still utilize all the the very cool items it has now, but make them effect gameplay and let the player actually control his toon.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Well first of all, there will be circle strafing in WAR no matter what server you play on. A lot of the classes have positional attacks which require them to be behind or to the side. So far I have not seen many spells that completely lock someone in place so there will be a fair amount of circle dizzy players until they do something to calm the players down.
On the topic of the video, it was an "ok" video, but it doesn't do WAR RvR justice.
STOP WHINING!
I dont get why people keep trying to compare war to other game and keep trying to say its the same old stuff... THE ONLY GAME OUT THERE LIKE WAR IS DAoC (and its vastly diffrent from that in that you dont need to pve to be good)
All other games are not completely RvR focused, and none have the RvR system that war does.
No other game can you level soley on RvR.
Eve might have good pvp, but i didnt like the log off and level system, i didnt like spaceship battles, and i didnt like the fact that 90% of the players can wipe me out without me having a fighting chance.
AoC, im sure after some time, will be a great game for flashy graphics and 1vs1 pvp...i have faith that funcom will eventually pull off an AO style game, they are just slow, but still its a diffrent style of game from war...completely.
I even see comparisons of war and wow/lotro, these games are pve games, end of story...even with pvp expansions you will have to pve to be any good.
So compare the grpahics ect, the combat the RvR the scenarios, the public quests, are all unique to war and offer a style of gameplay that is completely diffrent for any game out.
Now that being said war isnt going to be everyones cup of tea. But all this comparing apples to oranges is geting ridiculous.
Anyone who has played war for 15 levels will know that war is a diffrent breed from the rest. its not an everquest clone. So like it or hate it, you have to admit, its a diffrent type of game.
yes.... but AoC can AIM all day long.... they have YET to HIT something....
rofl
I kept and open mind, but vidio killed the last doubt in me - this PVP is not half as interesting as in AOC. It's very linear and kinda static. In AOC you can have 30% of health while your enemy has 100 and still win, and in here it look more predictable - it is result of simplified combat. That's why AOC's combat was heading in right direction. It's not perfect, but i won't agree to anything less from now on.
First of all I have to say that, depending on some classes, circle strafing is a legit tactic. If you are a clothy and you stand there to get beat on then you deserve it. In WoW I will break LOS by running behind and in AOC my Barbarian beat a ranger 20 levels higher than him because I decided not to stand there and be shot at.
Having done some RvR today (and spent some time watching a clan member play at a much higher level than I managed as I was late in to OB) I will say one thing about WAR PvP - I am LOVING the mass battles. Some one here said it was like old SWG and I suppose that is true - although my rig was duff at the time and base takedown battles got a bit flick-booky. It reminds me more of old Alterac Valley - back before the days of riding past each other - to the time of fighting to your last breath over every single last piece of territory. I love engaging in huge and glorious battles with dozens of others.
In WOW people rarely bother - PvP is only a means to an end rather than something engaged in for pure fun.
In AOC the graphics - while pretty - demand too much from user PCs and the servers themselves and the lag anf FPS just made it a pointless exercise for me. I remember seeing Erling talk about players fighting in sieges - 100s at a time. This will never happen as the technology won't support it.
I don't know how big WAR battles will be but even in OB which was HEAVING today I did not lag or suffer a drop in frame rate. I fought in some nice running battles on my Witch Hunter and the one person who used the phrase "ffs noobs" was roundly and swiftly treated to a verbal kicking which made me smile.
People may make their own mind up on what they expect from their PvP. I know I want my big battles.
Everyone who doesn't know real PVP in EVE says that. And every old player will tell you that EVE's combat system is the most advanced not only among MMOs, but there's hardly offline game with so many parameters involved.
But it all requires skill and brain.
Because you "set orbit and go to eat" - you die all the time. Do not mix your poor skill with game mechanics. Good PVPer click all the time, changing course and orbit to be in better position for firing/hiting oponent.
If you didn't know there's transversal and angular speeds involved, not to mention ton of other parameters. You can ignore them and die, but then why you're unhappy that some ppl can solo you - there's a reason for that.
What i like about AOC compared to eve is that it's all about your skills. It doesn't even matter how much health you got - you can still win by pullung clever combination of combos...
I kept and open mind, but vidio killed the last doubt in me - this PVP is not half as interesting as in AOC. It's very linear and kinda static. In AOC you can have 30% of health while your enemy has 100 and still win, and in here it look more predictable - it is result of simplified combat. That's why AOC's combat was heading in right direction. It's not perfect, but i won't agree to anything less from now on.
Exactly Alexander, thats how I see it. AoC set a benchmark, I like wars approach in some ways but 3 second swing time in auto attack on my White Lion... just too long. Its not my cuppa tea. The constant hit from side or back promote Circle Strafing which is what we see in the initial post video. I hate that, all need in the jumping video's now.
This thread is was brought about by AoC haters to incite flames: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/201327 "We can kick each others asses in game then come here and post youtube links on the AoC forums so the guys there can see what they are missing
" - pure troll.
I kept and open mind, but vidio killed the last doubt in me - this PVP is not half as interesting as in AOC. It's very linear and kinda static. In AOC you can have 30% of health while your enemy has 100 and still win, and in here it look more predictable - it is result of simplified combat. That's why AOC's combat was heading in right direction. It's not perfect, but i won't agree to anything less from now on.
Exactly Alexander, thats how I see it. AoC set a benchmark, I like wars approach in some ways but 3 second swing time in auto attack on my White Lion... just too long. Its not my cuppa tea. The constant hit from side or back promote Circle Strafing which is what we see in the initial post video. I hate that, all need in the jumping video's now.
This thread is was brought about by AoC haters to incite flames: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/201327 "We can kick each others asses in game then come here and post youtube links on the AoC forums so the guys there can see what they are missing
" - pure troll.
I just find it funny that the game you call a benchmark, is the same exact game were people are screaming 1 shot. This is not to say I don't enjoy Age of Conan's combat. But there was or could have been better alternatives to how they did there combat also. I honestly do not see any difference in any combat out there besides speed. You can only do combat on a keyboard in so many ways. And if you think about it, it all boils down to hitting a key. Maybe in a different order, or faster speed. Age of Conan's combat is good, but I actually enjoy a slower paced combat when it comes to RPG's. I enjoy a faster combat when playing an FPS.
Actually AoC did set a benchmark but its for the worst game ever released as a retail product. And lets not forget the patches with more bugs than the patch fixes. Then theres the total lack of depth and overall massive boredom feel the game has.
Overall AoC has set the benchmark for what a MMO should not be.
Thanks Funcom for giving the community and other developers a wake up call.