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Now that I think about it, WAR is actually a COH clone
Well I used to word clone to make fun of people and be sarcastic.
But WAR really does "borrow" alot from COH . Originally I was going with Guild Wars but that i think about it. It is more like COH where everyone has stamina. Only people who don't know what they are talking about think its like WoW.
Here is how it is like COH:
1) a fairly large action resource that regnerates at a moderate speed. Of all the previous MMO WAR combat is definitely closest to COH no question.
2) a number of CC effects most notably Knockdown and especially knockback are movement, position and animation based.
3) Auto exemplar in PvP. COH was the first to use this and Bolster is EXACTLy the same thing. The only difference is WAR gives people who are above the bolster level an edge and COH makes everyone exactly the same level
4) class design is much more similar to COH although far more locked down. Tanks that have damage you have to watch. Blasting support types (Defenders to Arhcamge shamn engineer magus). An egineer is just a traps Corruptor. The hybrid and special class mechanics is straight out of the City of Villains playbook.
Yep I was talking to someone in game during OB and they mentioned this. The more i think about the more it makes sense.
The whole WoW clone meme is rather sad. Shows how set into a mental rut many people are. When you look at it in detail it makes very little sense especially when there are games that have twice as many basic game mechanic similarlities.
Now if only the WAR had the huge build varitity of COH. Of course the balance would probably suck then.
Although in general there is a decent number of classes and good customization. But nothing like COH
Comments
It's not so much that it's not at all like WoW, it's just that in the design aspect, they're more closely connected, mainly because Warcraft was the offspring of Warhammer originally. Mythic looked at the good in many MMO's, and implemented or improved up them, and removed most of the bad.
This is also what WoW did originally. However WoW also kept a lot of the bad stuff, like raiding for example.
What Mythic has done, is added much more variety to gameplay, improved on even the things WoW improved upon originally, removed the bad from WoW and other games, and drew upon many ideas from their own game Dark Age of Camelot when it came to the PvP.
Mythic copied no games - they continued the trend of improving the good, removing the bad, and enhancing the overall experience with new features.
I'd have to think on this a bit, I hated CoH and quit pretty quickly so I can't remember the systems that well.
Making characters was fun though!
It's not so much that it's not at all like WoW, it's just that in the design aspect, they're more closely connected, mainly because Warcraft was the offspring of Warhammer originally. Mythic looked at the good in many MMO's, and implemented or improved up them, and removed most of the bad.
This is also what WoW did originally. However WoW also kept a lot of the bad stuff, like raiding for example.
What Mythic has done, is added much more variety to gameplay, improved on even the things WoW improved upon originally, removed the bad from WoW and other games, and drew upon many ideas from their own game Dark Age of Camelot when it came to the PvP.
Mythic copied no games - they continued the trend of improving the good, removing the bad, and enhancing the overall experience with new features.
WoW and WAR are only connected in the same terms all fantasy MMORPGs are: similar themes, similar looks, whatever. WAR is, I believe, the next step in the evolutionary scale, and borrowing stuff from very forward-thinking designs of games such as CoH, like the OP suggests, was a very good idea.
Very nice of you to point it out, by the way. I viewed the bolster thing as a direct reference to CoH's auto-exemplar/sidekick. As for the hybrids, it's clear as well. It's not "copying" per se, just like music of the same genre can't be reduced to a hell of copying; it's just... "influence".
Little correction/addition here, the bolster does not give a lvl 4 the skills of a lvl 8 and neither does their gear become better. So you still somewhat have an edge against lower lvl chars even if you are below the bolster lvl.
@OP
That does make sense... hadn't thought about that one myself. Apart from the world itself which is very much Guildwars.
Actually, I think the whole truth is that WO:AR borrowed good parts from a wide range of MMORPG, which they reinterpretted and added their own improvements to. What you're talking about in terms of City of Heroes similarities is a very small part of this.
As you can see by my XFire profile, I'm no CoH newb. (I think I passed CoH newb about 1000 hours ago. Now I'm CoH pathetically burned out.)
.....God i hate when people say games are clones.
Uhh... what?
i loved city of heroes, i thought it was a great game. i can see how you may see WAR as similar to COH. but Mythic went through a great deal to make this game, nothing like any MMO to date.
Its has "some" of the same things other mmo's have, but not many. WAR is WAR, no a copy, not a borrow.
thanks
It's not so much that it's not at all like WoW, it's just that in the design aspect, they're more closely connected, mainly because Warcraft was the offspring of Warhammer originally. Mythic looked at the good in many MMO's, and implemented or improved up them, and removed most of the bad.
This is also what WoW did originally. However WoW also kept a lot of the bad stuff, like raiding for example.
What Mythic has done, is added much more variety to gameplay, improved on even the things WoW improved upon originally, removed the bad from WoW and other games, and drew upon many ideas from their own game Dark Age of Camelot when it came to the PvP.
Mythic copied no games - they continued the trend of improving the good, removing the bad, and enhancing the overall experience with new features.
I get to differ. Whiel I agree that anyone saying Mythic, who created DAOC, copied WoW is a moron. It is also true that Mythic has moved away from EQ-lineage games with its combat.
DAOC was and is an EQ-linage game. I am not saying the copied EQ. That is an equally silly thing. Because the mechanics in EQ were 15 years old before EQ was ever released.
The games that have fast regne IN COMBAT are very very few. Namely COH and Guild Wars.
What does this offer? Constant combat ability and extra tactical considerations.
Now conisder how important this is for PvP.
Mythic is smart of full of people who play other games. They saw how Guild Wars worked. They looked at the extended egagements in Guild Wars and they saw the light. They realized how primitive EQ style (and therefore WoW style) action resources are when put into a PvP context.
If you do not really want BOOM HEAD shot! type 2 hit kills then you have to start thinking about this if you wanre REAL tactics.
Clearly Guild Wars taugh them something. Whether they "copied" COH or merely messed with stuff and un-intentionally wound up with something very similar to COH.
Now if we examine the knockback issue this is VERY peculiar to COH. Other less 3D oriented games do not do this. You just fall down they do not have knockbacks that actually change your position. Even more notable is that WAR has Knockback magnitude just like COH.
And if this does not convince you. Only COH has real flying combat. WAR is the only game besides COH and Neocron that I know that has REAL flying units, not fake units that hover but real flying units. You can see harpies flying around and changing their z-axis right from the get go. And they will attack you and patrol from this z-axis.
When you look the very exceptional standout difference of games like COH. There are a set of feature that almost NO EQ-linage game has. There are also certain design and game mechanics philosophies there that are generally absent. Many of these WAR has adopted.
COH PvP is not that great. It has a lot of problem. But certain parts of it are unique and very good. It is more dynamic and more "3D".
It is quite clear that Mythic has learned some lessons from these other games. These games that are stand out non EQ-lineage games.
And when it comes to PvP they have learned the biggest lesson most important lesson. Mana that regens only out of combat leads to a stale battlefield.
To beleive that they came up with this on their own instead of looking as game like Guild Wars and COh is hoghly unlikely. Especially since Guild Wars is the best match play online RPG on the market and has sold more than 2 million boxes.
They would be fools to ignore that. Most likely a large protion of their developers have played Guild Wars. It fairly likely they have tried COH out of curiosity at least.
The biggest thing you start to realize, especially if you play a CC class is that knockbacks and snares and roots are 90% of the CC. As a tank the best CC you can do to help out someone getting killed by melee dps is to knock them back and then block them and snare them. Give you healer time to heal himself put a guard on hm.
There is only one game where this sort of stuff happens. That is CoH. Play a Storm summoner and you will see just how powerful it is.
Knockback/down is a common and very significant form of mitigation in CoH. Further other games do not want to have the physic involed with it so they never implement it. But CoX already had real flight so knockback was possible and less of an issue.
Note WoW has flying mounts but not real physic or flying combat of any real sort. It is not the same thing.
Mythic has realized that stuns and other CC that make people helpless have problems, they are fairly uncommon. They exist but are rare and the ability to chain them is very rare.
But they needed some thing besides just basic snares and roots. They take a page from CoH and added REAL knockback. A way to control and change another person's position. Rahter than simply keep him in a certain place. I beleive AoC did this as well to some extent.
The part where it becomes quite clear is that WAR shares stuff that only these two games have really done. It has surface things that appear rather EQ-lineage. But when you get down to the nitty gritty of the actual mechanics it has very little with WoW and whole lot with COH.
Heck WoW still has skills that stay at the same effectiveness as when you buy them just like EQ. I mean that is super primitive. Even LOTRO has skills that scale with level like CoH did.
WAR had to do that or their bolster mechanic wouldn't work. CoX is the exemplar pioneer and still has possiblly the best exemplar system. Do you really think Mythic didn't do a little reconaisance?
But even more persuasive is that CoX actually uses the system in PvP. EQ2 has an exemplar system. They do not use it in PvP, even though they could have. They just put level limits on zones.
A decent exemplar system using WoW mechanics would suck. Because WoW's mechanics are primitive. They advanced nothing of EQ. They streamlined it but advanced nothing. The way they do not advance skills is so primitive that not even the most clone-like of all the WoW-clones, LOTRO, did not continue to use that system. Because its cumbersome, awkward and lacks any ability for reuse or expansion. It is a terrible system.
OP forgot #5: The Tome of Knowledge is an upgraded version of the Badge system.
Let me guess, you saw the Bright Wizard in the cinematic use something similar to the Fire Blaster ability "Fire Breath" and thought "OMG that reminds me of CoH." Afterwards causing you to look for ways the games were similar to each other so that you could come tell us about it.
STOP WHINING!
I think it's a Pacman clone.
lol you wrote a lot.
made some good points though.
for that i clap
As Isaid in the first sentence I used clone to be sarcastic. But it should be fairly persuasive to anyone actually not ignorant or an idiot that the core mechanics of WAR share more in common with COX than they do with WoW.
Clearly WAR has used a number of paradigms as examples. But people who say its a WoW clone are true fools. I don't think you can name one core combat mechanics that is not closer to CoH than it is to WoW. Other than the global cooldown, which CoX does not have and can be important for certain builds namely Dark Melee.
Does anyone truly believe that CoH is a WoW clone? No that is silly and impossible.
Does anyone believe that the combat system is not one of the fundamental pillars of the game? No that is silly and impossible.
Clearly WAR is not a CoX clone. The two play fairly difference and power choice alone for progression is fiarly different. But they share far more than WAR and WoW. And the stuff they do share actually core parts of the game.
Apparently having a persistent world with many quests makes you a WoW clone. Oh yeah and an interface that has black metallic looking frames. Of course quests like WoW's existed in Diablo 2 and a tons of other action RPGs and a persistent open world existed in DAOC and games before it.
I am tired of this retarded argument. If people want to claim Mythic stole something then get it right. Give credit to the proper games.
I am sure they borrowed from many games. I know it. They would stupid not to. And this is the normal progression of ALL industries. Imitation is the sincerist form of lfattery and all that.
But get it right seriously people. If you think WoW is the game WAR is the most similar to well you are missing the boat. And you doing so really really badly.
WAR is a DOAC world with some action RPG style questing and masteries added in with substantial borrowing in core game mechanics and class design from NON-EQ lineage games.
I mean seriously do you think tactics come from WoW? Is anyone that retarded? That is pure guild wars. If it was even borrowed at all.
No I saw a witch hunter squat and look like he was straining taking a really big dump and I tought:
"OMG Witch hunters are just like stalkers using assasin's strike!"
Yeah, um... don't do that. You're right this thread is fubar, but this move is why.
I'll tell you a little thing about message boards: most of the participants are lousy readers. They saw the subject, they read a little bit of your message, and "I was kidding about that clone thing" was never noticed.
Yeah, um... don't do that. You're right this thread is fubar, but this move is why.
I'll tell you a little thing about message boards: most of the participants are lousy readers. They saw the subject, they read a little bit of your message, and "I was kidding about that clone thing" was never noticed.
I know that is what I wanted them to do. Notice no one tries to defend the thesis that it is a WoW clone. Because as long as it is a clone (ie. an insult) the idiots are happy.
Instead you get the same kneejerk responses of anyone who simply dislikes clone or want to defend WAR. And then you get sprinkle of people who may actually RTFA.
Clearly very few people actually beleive the premise that it is a WoW clone or they would have to take apart this argument since CoX is not anywhwer close to a WoW clone and lettting the premise stand would undermine their own.
The two premises are mutually exclusive if they ceded this point they would inherently be calling themselves a liar. Yet none of them do. Because they are fools and liars.
If they truly believed this was a WoW clone they would attack this premise as vicsously as they could and would think its the height of stupidity.
No I saw a witch hunter squat and look like he was straining taking a really big dump and I tought:
"OMG Witch hunters are just like stalkers using assasin's strike!"
Atleast I got the OMG part right!
STOP WHINING!
War is nothing new or innovative, tooo bad. Seems like it copys a few game ideas. I do like the choise of careers
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
war is nothing new or inovative? are you mad man? have you lost your mind? are you some kind of uber noob?!
It's not so much that it's not at all like WoW, it's just that in the design aspect, they're more closely connected, mainly because Warcraft was the offspring of Warhammer originally. Mythic looked at the good in many MMO's, and implemented or improved up them, and removed most of the bad.
This is also what WoW did originally. However WoW also kept a lot of the bad stuff, like raiding for example.
What Mythic has done, is added much more variety to gameplay, improved on even the things WoW improved upon originally, removed the bad from WoW and other games, and drew upon many ideas from their own game Dark Age of Camelot when it came to the PvP.
Mythic copied no games - they continued the trend of improving the good, removing the bad, and enhancing the overall experience with new features.
They missed a lot of bad then. You know, that whole out dated class/level system. Instanced PvP. Horribly boring quests. Absolutely no death penalty.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
Now, now, just because a marked lack of reading comprehension or tolerance for critical thinking can be found on the typical forum doesn't mean it's right to entrap them. If nothing else, it's displaying a poor example. Trolling is trolling no matter how much thought you put into it.
I think we all know that Warhammer Online borrows more from World of Warcraft than any other MMORPG. But then, World of Warcraft was poured into a foundation that many MMORPG developers, Mythic included, were responsible for laying. Frankly, it's hard to say where WoW began and all the other MMORPGs left off... what few differences I can find really aren't that flattering to Blizzard, their main contribution was just to streamline, make casual-accessible, and assure stability.
The thing that really excites me about Warhammer Online is that it's one thing to imitate, it's another thing to understand what you're imitating and do it better. Mythic has done just that, throwing their net wide over some of the best MMORPGs of our time in the process. I think that alone is the reason why I was willing to purchase a Warhammer Online account long after I was bored of the typical Diku-derivative MMORPG.
i remember being attacked by a vulture out of nowhere in chaos chapter two lol
i remember being attacked by a vulture out of nowhere in chaos chapter two lol
DAoC also had mobs that moved around on all three axis.
Dragonflies and such would go up a good ways and come down at an angle as you pulled them.
STOP WHINING!
Good!! I love the way CoX plays, it is the only other account I keep active...I love how they recently tweaked Stalkers. I will always keep my CoX account along with my WAR accounts....what i have already canceled and will never resubscribe to is WoW. The developers as so damn biased towards the alliance and druids it is disgusting. They even mention their favorites in their own forums and their constant disdain for other classes is obvious in the lack of responses in those class forums and the manner in which those few responses are made.....such bias and unprofessionalism....I am amazed but not surprised.