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Why is forced overtime still legal?
xDarc
Member Posts: 211
I knew salaried workers got screwed over all sorts of ways and there wasnt any laws to protect them... but this week I came to find out the 40 hour work week that most of the civilized world believes in is a myth here in America.
It turns out there is no cap as to how many hours an employer can schedule an employee over the age of 16, under federal law. There is no law on it, and no protection from employer discipline if you decline to work, say, 80 hours a week.
This is happening where I work right now where I'm having to work 52 hours a week. I am told if I do not do it they will move me to another facility as far away as possible and demote as close as they can to minimum wage so that I will quit.
There are instances where lawsuits are won for salaried employees without compensation, or for people who's long OT hours endanger them... which is why they dont fire people outright... but they could even do that if they wanted to.
Im not even the one getting it the worst. Apparently one guy worked 80 hours this week. One guy worked an 8 hour shift, got 4 hours off, and had to come back for another 8 hour shift... I've asked my boss about getting a part timer(s) to fill all these holes but he said the company is against hiring part timers. I dont know WTF that is about.
To hire someone here, you must pass a criminal background check, credit history check, drug test, both urine and hair, and then they hire this company to bug the shit out of all your references and investigate your entire past. There's little chance of a new hire actually making it out here to help out any time soon.
If you search around the web- there are lots of forced overtime horror stories. People have jobs that can endanger themselves and others from working too many hours. I believe that train crash happened during a 12 hour shift for the engineer, and the news brought up labor law reform briefly...
It's a quality of life issue. I mean you are making money sure, but life is too short to work so much all the god damn time. It just feels like slavery. Work when I say, as much as I say, or lose your job.
Comments
No one is forcing you. Just get a job where you don't have to work 52 hrs per week. Problem solved. Unless of course you are a slave, and someone claims to own you. That is illegal.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Sometimes people don't like to quit their jobs, because you see, it can sometimes be kind of difficult to get a new one. Especially in a recession.
So, though it may be that simple for you Fisher, some people aren't that fortunate.
------------------------------
"Capitalism is currently working as intended."
Sometimes people don't like to quit their jobs, because you see, it can sometimes be kind of difficult to get a new one. Especially in a recession.
So, though it may be that simple for you Fisher, some people aren't that fortunate.
One, when were we in a recession? Do you know what a recession is? A recession is defined as two consecutive quarters of negative growth. When did we have that?
Unemployment and inflation are still at historically low levels.
We are PROBABLY about to experience recession due to the sub-prime mortgage fiasco, but we haven't had one in a long time.
Two, read the title and the OP. No one is FORCING him. I know people don't like to quit jobs. That has nothing to do with what is being discussed. This is about FORCE. No one is forcing him to do overtime.
fishermage.blogspot.com
Just because someone isnt physically twisting my arm it doesnt mean im not being forced.
If I dont do what they say I lose my job. How is that not being forced?
If someone came up to you and said, do what I say or i cut off your pinky, are you being forced to do anything? Are you going to start with your high falutin' bullshit about how cutting off your pinky will not force you to do anything- that your free will is an abstract or an absolute and cannot be broken? That there is always choice?
Welcome to the real world Mr. 9 Fingers.
Maybe we should call it "under duress overtime" or "coercive overtime" for all the people who like to wax philosophical.
It's forced freaking overtime- get over yourself. Most people need a job a hell of a lot more than a digit.
Welcome to America, the land of $4/gallon gasoline, housing foreclosures, and job loss to foreign countries.
Expect this to continue, as employers are competing with Chinese and Indian workers that make $2/hr. They can either move your job offshore, or work you enough hours to be competitive with foreign workers making $2/hr. Take your pick, do you want a slow death through cancer, or polio?
Always remember, unions bad, employers good. If your employer wants 80 hours per week, give then 120. I'm sure they will recognize your dedication and commitment and your desire to "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" and reward you accordingly. Rather than criticize your employer, you should be grateful you have a job. Remember, the wealthy create jobs. Thank a wealthy person today.
See, America is great, the fundamentals of the economy are sound, the American worker has a strong back, and you have freedom to chose. The only reason people are unemployed is because they chose to be unemployed.
....and I say to myself, what a wonderful world.
Yes because it would be so much better if the goverment told us how to live.
People are free to ask and do as they will. Don't like if you could always move to a country that doesn't offer freedom.
you need to get hurt on the job.
and than sue.
claim you were overly tired
from forced OT.
get that fucker on recording threatening you,
if you do not comply to his OT demands.
i hear backs and heads are good injuries.
________________________________________
do you get time + half for your OT?
what state do you live in?
something does not sound right,
but that could be because im in NY and
we do have labor laws here.
-I will subtlety invade your psyche-
Why do you think movies like are so popular?
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch
Maybe we should enact a 35 hour work week?
The 35-hour working week is a measure adopted first in France, in February 2000, under Prime Minister Lionel Jospin's Plural Left * government; it was pushed by then Minister of Labour Martine Aubry. The previous legal duration of the workweek was 39 hours, which had been established by François Mitterrand, also a member of the Socialist Party. The 35-hour working week was already in the Socialist Party's 1981 electoral program
On December 22, 2004, the French Parliament extended the maximum number of overtime hours per year from 180 to 220;
*The Gauche Plurielle (French for Plural Left) was a left-wing coalition in France, composed of the Socialist Party (Parti socialiste or PS), the French Communist Party (Parti communiste français or PCF), the Greens, the Left Radical Party (Parti radical de gauche or PRG), and the Citizens' Movement
1970 hours Maximum in France with free healthcare or an unlimited amount you are "forced" to work in the US and no free healthcare: Wow why doesn't the Goverment step in and address this injustice.
Actually, if someone isn't physically twisting your arm, or physicaly threatening you in any way, you are not being forced, as in the case of the OP -- no one is forcing him.
The cutting off of pinky nonsense is an argument for ME, not for the OP. You come along and imply, if it isn't physical, it can still be force, Then you use a physical example in an attempt to prove your point. Weak.
Oh, and thanks for the childish "get over yourself" crap, as well as the childish Mr. 9 fingers, and so on. It's not forced overtime and nothing you said proves that it is, which is why I guess you have to resort to your snide remarks
This isn't about what people "need" and it isn't philosophical, it's about vocabulary and the proper use of the language to make one's point.
fishermage.blogspot.com
I have to agree with everyone else. No one is forcing you to work. You can go elsewhere. It is your choice to make the money or take a lower paying job.
Edit: I agree with the below post. Always check your contract. While I don't mind working an extra couple hours per week, I do not have too. My contract states I am to work 2,080 hours/year. Nothing more, nothing less.
OP, look over the contract you signed when you first signed up. There may be things there that protect you... or don't. Also, get the threat recorded, either through email or record it via a recording device. Threatening to transfer/cut you because you won't put in more hours can be argued as harrassment.
Otherwise... if you really can't get another job, speak to a health professional. If they say that you should not physically work the number of hours, that can be a point you bring up, either to the boss or in court.
Really everything depends on what you want to do. You can sue, you can deal with it and put in a few more hours (don't believe what people say though about being "lucky" that you have a job. No one should have to put their health or sanity at risk for a job), or you can find a new job.
Your definition of "force" is inaccurate and somewhat naive. Employers are largely free to make whatever demands they want so long as the employee's wellbeing is looked after and they are appopriately compensated. If the employer demands that you work 52 hours per week or more and you refuse to acknowledge that demand, your recourse is to find another job.
Your finger analogy is grossly irrelevant, too. One scenario involves choosing to work or not work, and the other involves threatend bodily harm that you apparently cannot just walk away from. Why are we even playing such a ridiculous game of dissimilarities?
You are obviously unhappy, so quit and work somewhere else. Trust me, the people in the world who have actual problems, including those who experience real forced labor under tyrannical regimes, would laugh at what you consider a grave issue.
Go talk to your HR department. HR will let you know what is, and is not, legally required. Don't just trust your immediate supervisor on worker's rights issues. Your immediate supervisoer will tell you whatever is necessary to get productivity.
i worked in the food industry last year, and had an issue with being forced to work hours that i was not scheduled to work.
on a particular sunday, i had made plans to go to the mall with my mom, knowing that i would be the first to be cut for the day, expecting i would be off around 2 or 3 (as was standard for sunday morning workers), it was just enough time to get in some shopping with mom before the early sunday mall closing (who i hadn't seen in eons due to us both being so busy in work).
so 3 o'clock came, and i still wasn't cut (no reason for it since the restaurant was totally dead). but no big deal, just wait til 4 for the official end of my shift, and i'll still have a couple hours to enjoy with my mom.
4 o'clock came around, but i still wasn't allowed to leave.
the general manger in training (who was the only manager on site atm) told me i had to stay til the next server came in for her shift, and he began to be quite rude with me after i had done some minor protesting. (i knew the next server wasn't going to show since the gm-trainee had actually been quite rude with her the previous night and they had made quite a scene.)
i made it perfectly clear that i had plans and i needed to leave, since it was the end of my shift.
i knew for a fact that it was not my responsibility and was not required by any contract for me to cover someone else's shift if i did not want to, and hours of arguing went by, with the gm trainee finally saying that if i left it meant my job.
so it was almost 7 when i finally got fed up with arguing, left the restaurant, and left the job for good, and in the end still missed out on my day to spend with my mom.
next day, one of the regular managers calls me up asking why i hadn't shown up for my shift that day. i explained what had happened, and he was totally shocked and offered my job back. so i told him i'd come in for my shift and take my job back as long as the gm-trainee wasn't there. he basically said "sorry to hear that, but, he's not going anywhere." so that was the end of that.
it stinks, cause it was a nice place to work, i really liked all the people, except for that one asshole. i even tried to collect unemployment insurance for losing my job unlawfully, but i hadn't been working there for long enough so i wasn't eligible. how lame.
war is peace
freedom is slavery
ignorance is strength
big brother is watching you
Well if you want to get downright technical about it, no one can ever force you to do anything. If someone puts a gun to your head, you can choose to be shot in the head. If someone physically tries to move you to force you to move, you can choose to resist.
Still- most regular joes outside of an MMORPG.com forum, where posters often have their head lodged in an undisclosed location, would agree that a real threat with consequences attached to it would translate into being forced.
So in conclusion of this thread, only a handful of us "peasants" seem to think there's a real issue with employers having no cap on hours they can schedule you for, and no protection from disciplinary action should you refuse to work them... Because who does this really affect besides people working in hospitals, food service, retail outlets, service departments, offices and manual labor? Right?
I'm so sick of the posters here. Going back to the shadows now.
if you're so sick of the posters here... why do you even bother making posts?
war is peace
freedom is slavery
ignorance is strength
big brother is watching you
So basically, what you seem to be saying is that as long as I don't physically injure or threaten to injure someone then I'm not forcing them? So If I tell my secretary to bring her sixteen year old daughter to my house tonight for three way sex or she's fired, then I'm not a rapist? Wow.... just wow...
Well actually... that no longer becomes an issue of forcing and is now sexual harassment.
And the OP is being forced to do something... make a tough decision. That's life though.
Welcome to life.
Welcome to America, the land of $4/gallon gasoline, housing foreclosures, and job loss to foreign countries.
Expect this to continue, as employers are competing with Chinese and Indian workers that make $2/hr. They can either move your job offshore, or work you enough hours to be competitive with foreign workers making $2/hr. Take your pick, do you want a slow death through cancer, or polio?
Always remember, unions bad, employers good. If your employer wants 80 hours per week, give then 120. I'm sure they will recognize your dedication and commitment and your desire to "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" and reward you accordingly. Rather than criticize your employer, you should be grateful you have a job. Remember, the wealthy create jobs. Thank a wealthy person today.
See, America is great, the fundamentals of the economy are sound, the American worker has a strong back, and you have freedom to chose. The only reason people are unemployed is because they chose to be unemployed.
....and I say to myself, what a wonderful world.
Because when Obama starts taxing them more they wil just say ok to lost profits? No. Wealthy do make jobs. Taxes WILL NOT hurt their profits it will move jobs to Asia even faster.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
Dude don't be that way about it.
I actually applaud you for working. We need more people like you, and don't think you are the only one, i have not had a pay raise in 12 years, i made 15 dollars an hour in 96 and am still making 15 dollars an hour.
I do the jobs Americans don't want you know /rollseyes hard phsical labor in the hot summer sun. Painting carpentry drywall, remodeling and such.
You don't think i wonder why i still do it?
I do it because i like to be self reliant, i do not want the Goverment to take care of me,feed me clothe me,shelter me. You get the point don't you? I do it because it is the right thing to do, why should i be a burden upon my fellow Americans when i can provide for myself?
And even without a pay raise,it is still better than sucking at the teat of the American welfare system, at least i am free to decide who i work for.
And i am still able to save 1000 dollars a month.
But It is kind of hard to take you seriously when you post this:
xDarc wrote:
I've seen worse than you have. Unemployment here in Michigan is over 8%. I have lived in and around Detroit. I move quite frequently as I am constantly finding myself out of work. The job I just got... our company got bought out by HP and they're going to cut 24,600 jobs in the next 3 years.
And then three days later you are posting about working "TOO MANY HOURS"
So are you glad, to have a job or not? You should be sucking it up and making as much money as possible, and saving your money for the day when the Economy crashes and you will be able to ensure your own success and survival. I sure wouldn't be waiting for the Goverment to provide anything, i believe Katrina proved that, you are on your own to make a success out of yourself.
Start leaving soldier of fortune magazines around prominently.
If you are not being responded to directly, you are probably on my ignore list.
xdarc, you live in michigan?
i thought that was a democratic stronghold?
im surprised at what i read:
http://blog.laborlawtalk.com/2006/11/24/michigan-mandatory-overtime-laws/
"Under the Michigan mandatory overtime laws, an employer may legally require an employee to work overtime. The employer may require an employee to work 20 or more hours in a single day, or 70 or more hours in a week. An employer may legally require employees to work on Saturdays, Sundays and holidays, even if the employee is normally off on those days. In addition, if an employee refuses, the employer may legally discipline or even fire them. However, the employer does have to pay overtime in most cases."
And in all honesty. i do agree with mandatory overtime being unfair. that paragraph above is, in my conservative republican opinion, GROSS.
20 or more hours in a single day? 70 in a single week?
fuck that state and/or fuck that job.
-I will subtlety invade your psyche-
hehe.
-I will subtlety invade your psyche-
Welcome to America, the land of $4/gallon gasoline, housing foreclosures, and job loss to foreign countries.
Expect this to continue, as employers are competing with Chinese and Indian workers that make $2/hr. They can either move your job offshore, or work you enough hours to be competitive with foreign workers making $2/hr. Take your pick, do you want a slow death through cancer, or polio?
Always remember, unions bad, employers good. If your employer wants 80 hours per week, give then 120. I'm sure they will recognize your dedication and commitment and your desire to "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" and reward you accordingly. Rather than criticize your employer, you should be grateful you have a job. Remember, the wealthy create jobs. Thank a wealthy person today.
See, America is great, the fundamentals of the economy are sound, the American worker has a strong back, and you have freedom to chose. The only reason people are unemployed is because they chose to be unemployed.
....and I say to myself, what a wonderful world.
Because when Obama starts taxing them more they wil just say ok to lost profits? No. Wealthy do make jobs. Taxes WILL NOT hurt their profits it will move jobs to Asia even faster.
Wealthy do NOT make jobs. INVESTMENT CREATES JOBS.
Investment comes from many sources, to include pension funds, 401Ks, mutual funds, and your Aunt Gertie's savings account.
What you have blindly bought into is the arguement that only the wealthy should be capable of investment. It is exactly that sort of logic that is squeezing the middle class out of the investment picture and pushing them down the economic ladder.