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HELLO...What happened
Vineyard
Member Posts: 180
in Everquest II
What happened to the thread I started, "Please tell me why"? I had just posted, then when I went back to the General Discussion page....it was gone. Where did it go? Why is it gone?
Comments
I saw your post and then I posted as well LOL
Here's my post
(I believe that this post HERE was the last posted on the now deleted thread)
There are several types of discussions going on here and on the forum. Some are posting OPINIONS, some of those OPINIONS are POSITIVE and some are NEGATIVE. Those who are looking forward to the game and hope for the BEST are upset with those who attack both the game's potential and Sony's ability to deal with game/customer issues.
Then we have people who "claim" to be BETA testers...some of which have been very informative and helpful to the EQ2 community here. Even those who bring up issues that they feel need to be worked on. All while still abiding by the NDA...
While OTHER who also "claim" to be a/or were a BETA tester go into a bit deeper specifics and basically BASH the game and their experience as a tester.
So...now we have to TRY and sift through all these vastly different views and make SOME sense of it all?
SO...the only people who ACTUALLY have a somewhat valid take on the game are the true testers. And they arent suppose to be saying much. With in that small circle, some will like what they see and others won't. It's just like the REAL game will be. Some will love it...others will HATE it?
And those with ONLY OPINIONS...have only THAT, OPINION.
Until the game goes live and released we ALL need to take comments with a "grain of salt" and HOPE for the BEST!
That's my opinion...nothing anyone says here is going to make me NOT TRY the game and see what I think for myself. You will ALWAYS have both those who will not like it at all and those who just want to harass and bash something just to get a rise out of others.
All we can do is WAIT... and hope that we will enjoy a game that many people have worked very HARD to make both enjoyable and exciting and new!
I truely hope for the BEST, and I'm thinking I will LIKE many things about the game. But that is my own wishfull hoping! LOL
Best Regards 2 ALL,
RA
ps - sorry 'bout posting a quote that was against the forum rules, at the time I wasn't sure what the guideline actually was. I am now fully aware and there will be no further issue
"It'll be dark soon."
"Aye...that it will."
User who posted: Vineyard
Date/Time: 10/06/04 - 3:06PM
Category: Everquest II
Forum: General Discussion
Topic: Please tell me why
Yeah, I was looking for that post as well today.
me too...
stranger and stranger....
<looks under the rug>
nope not there....but where?
Everything born must die. All that is, will come to ruin. This is the essence of Doom. So sayeth the Doomsayer.
________________________________
Everything born must die. All that is, will come to ruin. This is the essence of Doom. So sayeth the Doomsayer.
Vineyard, from what i can tell your thread was removed due to its content. Alone 7 posts had to be deleted including one of you own for violating the Rules of Conduct.
Your opening post places judgement on other members that was the caused of the majority of what was deleted.
In essence the thread was a EQ2 v WoW thread which Staff have repeatedly stated will not be tolerated any further at mmorpg.com due to the constant heated debates that arise from such a topic. There is no need for further discussion in relation to the two games because pf the above and that it has been "done to death" already. Review previous topics regarding these titles for any further related opinions.
- Malkavian
"When you find yourself sinking into Madness, dive" - Malkavian Proverb
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
Forum Stalker
Malkavian@mmorpg.com
"When you find yourself sinking into Madness, dive"
I knew I should have saved the post I made in that thread to notepad. Shame I had made a lovely post addressing the accusations Tomb had directed at me.
But to summarize, I went back 8 pages here, and aside from one thread were I told, I think it was Enigma225 that he needed therapy for saying he hoped I burned after saying I didn't feel the game was ready for release. I also said that some people posting that they would just die if they weren't able to play the game RIGHT NOW!!!11! needed to get their ADHD looked at. Never called anyone mindless, or sheep as Tombs claimed I had. But by all means, link to a post I made doing so. Or something were I just mindlessly bash the game. Hell, I defended the game in the thread LordChaos2 made just bashing the game, shame it was deleted, not that that would have stopped people. I've replied to people who claim to have watched their friend that's in beta play the game, and go on to say there is no lag, no bugs, etc. I have asked them to back up their claims, and yes I've given examples that prove them wrong, though I'd have to check, I don't think any were deleted for breaking NDA. Never got any follow up out of them. Oddly enough, Enigma225 is one of those people. He has also started two other threads about getting the game released now, or Nov 15th. I've stated that, given SOE's track record, I have my reservations about them learning from EQ, and SWG. I don't think that means I have an anti-SOE agenda, simply means I don't delude myself as far as what their actions have been in the past. Hell, I played EQ forever. I like the game, same goes for SWG, and somewhat for Planetside, which is a good game, but I'm not going to pay to play when I can play UT2k4 for BF:1942 for free. But my enjoyment of those games does not blind me to the fact that SOE made some whopper mistakes with both games, or that both games didn't have some major flaws.
I don't think I've expressed a preferrence for WoW over EQ2, or vice versa. If anything, I said they were both good games, and both were fun, though in different ways. And yet someone managed to turn that into me bashing EQ2, and being a hatefilled ass. Liking a game does not require me to kiss the devs, or anyone elses for that matter, last I checked. I can like a game overall, and still have issues with certain aspects of it. Like my opinion of the feel of the zones and/or graphics in EQ2
But I'm too busy to concentrate on this now, so I'll leave off here. But like I said, if you can find a post I made here saying you people were mindless sheep, by all means link it, quote it, whatever. I make enough posts at 4 and 5 in the morning when I'm barely conscious so it's possible that I could have, but like I said, I went back 8 pages and didn't find anything, deleted posts nothwithstanding, though I don't recall having done so there either.
Here ya go:
Well, semantics aside. You are technically correct, though I will stand by what I said in this instance.
I have seen plenty of posts across many games, from Asheron's Call, to um... <insert game with a Z name here> where people have said things like If X is not fixed immediately I'm going to quit, yada yada. And then a few weeks later they are back making the same post, as just one example. I haven't seen that here, and I suppose I could have made that more clear that I was pointing towards official game forums. So I duly apologize if anyone had the impression I meant that to be directed towards the people here.
To be topical, the most notorious one I can think of was Furor of FoH giving SOE an ultimatum that he, and his guild would take their ball and go home if the Rathe Council wasn't fixed in two weeks time. I don't remember the exact outcome, but I believe it was 'fixed' right at the 14 day mark, as I know FoH made it into PoTime, and defeated Quarm, etc.
On to the sycophants. Yes, it's pretty snarky, and as such I apologize for giving offence. I guess I shouldn't post here after reading the beta forums. But, in my defense, I can't think of a better description for the people that suck up to the devs constantly, and will defend a game, any game, no matter what. Again, not saying there are people here doing that, neccesarily, though I'd say some people come close to defending a game no matter what.
I mean, I enjoyed Everquest immensely when I played it, but I was more than aware that it had it's shortcomings. Like I said earlier, I might enjoy a game, but I don't let that blind me to it's flaws. I like EQ2 overall, despite what many may think, but there are still things I find to be... not fun in the game. Or things that I feel have potential but need tweaking. And there are some things that are just flat out broken at this time. Thus my opinion that they should hold off and keep working, and release after the end of the year. They listened to the fans, and more importantly the shareholders, and released SWG before it was ready. And they are still trying to catch up what is it, a year and half after release. The premise of the game has me pretty stoked when I first heard about it. Having seen Star Wars before it became Episode IV: A New Hope, and ESB being the first movie I got to see by myself, I was having little paroxysms of geek joy when I first heard about SWG. I saw the screenshots, and was practically drooling. However, what was promised and talked about by the devs, what the screenshots portrayed and what was released to the public were two totally different things. And I think I wasn't the only one that felt... let down by what we got. And I think SWG's sales, and subscription numbers reflect that. Horizons was another game that sounded very interesting. But during beta, it was evident to many testers that something was amiss. But any time someone mentioned the lag, or lack of content, or one of the multitude of other problems, the small core of rabid beta testers that would slather the devs with praise if they so much as said hi would leap all over whoever dared question that Horizons might not be the center of the Universe. And they would say things like "It's beta", or my personal favorite, "The devs have an internal build that fixes all the lag issues, and the bugs, and has all the content". Which if that was the case, what the hell were we doing? But I think everyone knows how that story ends.
Recently, I've seen the same situations surrounding EQ2. People calling for it to be released now, that they don't care about bugs, etc. And they are very vocal about it. And anytime people bring up the lag issues, or bugs, or suggest that some aspect of gameplay may not be fun, they get shut down by that same core of fans that can't see past their fanhood to see that maybe these people have a valid point. So rather than having an intelligent discussion, people are told yet again, "it's beta", or that the devs have a fully functional internal build that solves all the problems, or they're told that it was discussed two years ago by the people that followed the game from the first time some dev uttered the word Everquest 2. So they had a hand, however small, in shaping certain elements of gameplay, and of course they find them fun. Like when they defended people not being able to heal someone not in their group. However, the community of healers, myself included, and others spoke out against it, saying it didn't add anything fun to the game. And seeing as you can't heal someone in a locked encounter, and they get no xp/loot after breaking the encounter, there was no reason why we shouldn't be able to heal someone, and it got changed. For the better in my opinion.
This seems to be turning into a novel, so for the sake of anyone actually reading it, I'll end here...
for now
Admitedly, I don't remember any WoW vs EQ2 bickering in the thread. However, I think much of the problem comes from everyone having a different version of what bashing is. Now some, like Djin for example, clearly are just making uninformed posts about EQ2 in an attempt to rile people up. LordChaos2's thread, which was also deleted, was borderline in my opinion. Some of it I could see someone saying it was just mindless bashing, some of it was, although poorly presented, valid critisism. My posts discussing my opinions on EQ2, while you might say it's bashing simply because it's pointing out something wrong with EQ2, I see it as a critisism of something I see as wrong, in the hopes that an intelligent discussion of the issue could occur, and hopefully something good come of it. Like the issue I mention earlier with healing. And that's the difference. Making a polite, intelligent post vs. making a post that says EQ2 is teh sux n if u r buy teh gaem ur retarted!11!!!2122@ lolz, which invariably leads to a downward spiral of pointless flame posts back and forth. Something many people, myself included, have indulged in.
And that's why I think the thread got deleted. As Malk said, there were 7 posts deleted. The one you made, which to your credit, you apologized for, and the ones that were in reply. While I bemoan the loss of my post, it was probably for the best in a way.
No worries, I don't take it personal.
Except that chucklehead that told me to burn. That one chapped my ass a bit.
Other than that, it's all shits and grins here, until the next wave of games release. Then the forums will be dead for a month or two. Till we all come back to bitch about how game X was a disapointment, and how upcoming game Y will be the one that gets it right, and the process starts all over again. 
But I agree, while the thread had a rocky start, it was turned around nicely when I made my reply around 5 am, and I hadn't seen a reply when I hit the sack at 9am or so, and it was gone when I got up, so I don't know if something was posted after me, that caused the delete, or what.
And M.A.S.H. was the best. I remember watching the final episode as a kid. I was actually kinda sad. Same as I was when Colonel Blake's chopper went down on his way to Seoul to go home. They just don't make shows like that anymore. Which is a shame. Closest I've come is NYPD Blue, and Law and Order. Though, I have to be carefull watching SVU, as it makes me want to go pummell a sex offender.
For some reason people pick a game and then heatedly defend it and attack the other like they are two high school football teams competing on a Friday night.
Listen up folks.
We all like mmorpgs or we wouldn't spend our free time here or in game. It is in our best interest for both games to be successful.
Why?
Competition. Because neither is "the only game in town" we will get BETTER QUALITY and customer service from BOTH. In addition, we have other companies down the pipe who think they can enter this genre and do EVEN BETTER. You might think EQ2 takes too long and is too laggy but WoW is perfect and I might think WoW is too cartoony and not hard enough. Choices are a good thing not a bad thing. Why try to bash the game you think you won't like when it is in our interest for them both to be pretty good?
So this explains why recently there has been so much activity here...
I thought it was just me. No thrilling game to play right now... I guess I'll go read some forums. WIll I be here Nov 16th? probably not 
/still not sure which big new game I want to buy and try
Explorer 66%
Socializer 60%
Achiever 40%
Killer 33%
Vanguard is one I'm really curious about. When I played EQ, it had something ephemeral about it. Nothing I could put my finger on, but I played that game like it was a religion. I know many others did as well.
For some it was their first online game, but I came from years of mudding, NWN on AOL, and Sierras Shadows of Yserbius, so I was used to online games, albeit nothing that massive. I thought maybe it was the graphics, but I've played plenty of games with better graphics since, and none has had that... thing.
So I went into both WoW and EQ2 hoping they could capture that whatever. While many people say WoW is too easy, and I have to agree, I think, in a way, that was part of the appeal to me. I didn't have to pour blood sweat and tears into the game like I did in EQ. While I might not be as attached to the game, I had fun while playing, and at the end of the day, that's what counts. EQ2... What can I say, I like the game. It's in some ways different from EQ than what I expected, but, strangely enough, it's more like EQ in some ways than I expected. But as good as the game may be, I still didn't find that magical feeling. So I look to Vanguard with no small interest, and I wonder, as I'm sure many others that where there during there for the Golden Age of Everquest.
Will Brad and Co be able to make lightning strike twice? Will they be able to remake the magic that made Everquest what it was for many of us? I truly hope they do, but I feel tremendous pity for the Devs there, as they will be under scrutiny unlike anything even the EQ2 devs have to put up with. And peoples expectations for that game are going to be all but impossible to match, so I can almost hear the bitching from here.
Then there is still the monkeywrench that Guild Wars will throw into the works. D&D Online sounds interesting, but I think it's doomed to failure, same as Middle Earth Online. I mean, you're talking about fans with decades of preconceptions about what D&D is and isn't. Same with ME. I feel sorry for the thrashing Turbine is going to get for both games, assuming they aren't cancelled, as seems to be the trend lately. Imperator is one I'm keeping an eye on personally, just because I prefer Sci Fi to Fantasy, which in the MMO genre has been done to death, while Sci Fi games, esp. cyberpunk has hardly been touched.
I am one of those with years and years and years ( oh christ I feel old now ) of D&D preconceptions. My mind has a VERY detailed vision of the game, same as everyone else I'll wager. There is absolutely no way in hell that Turbine could ever cover everything all of us has in our heads. But, hey, I wish them all the luck in the world, god knows they will need it. I have yet to look into Imperator or Guild Wars but have heard alot of good things about both.
I know what you meant about that "thing" original EQ had. I could never put my finger on it either ( I did put a toe on it once though and had to get a shot to clear up the resulting infection ). There just seemed to be something ethereal and magical about what was going on.
First, id advise not talking down to a Senior Mod. Especially me. 2nd, in your previous topic your comments were directed at WoW Fans actions in EQ2 Forums. Naturally this brought backlash concerning your very topic. Next time, generalise instead. There was no need to mention the 2 games to make your point.
- Malkavian
"When you find yourself sinking into Madness, dive" - Malkavian Proverb
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
Forum Stalker
Malkavian@mmorpg.com
"When you find yourself sinking into Madness, dive"
Hey "Vineyard" (and everyone)
What was your feeling on Bioware's Neverwinter Nights? (I know it's not a mmog but I'm curious)
I played "a bit" of P&P D&D in my early teens and enjoyed it...so for me NWN's was a fun journey back to the genera!
RA
"It'll be dark soon."
"Aye...that it will."