That is just it joining a party in a PQ is sort of contradicting if you join a group. I never said that I had a desire to be in small groups or large ones. I have been in both. Not even sure what your taking issue with from what I posted. I like the fact in War you can solo or go right into warbands. For the most part though you can solo about any quest on the tiers I am on. I even grouped up in some of the quests, but you can still doing it on your own. Everything was in a response to the idea that wow made people solo. War tends promote it too and I don't think that is a bad thing as people are making it. I am sure in upper tiers which I am looking forward to there will be more need for grouping if not more team work on a larger scale. Don't get me wrong love this game and want to see more mass combat . To be frank if I wanted play this game for pve and small dungeons I would be playing wow. I am looking for more the mass combat and rvr aspects of the game.
I personally mostly do PQs and Scenarios. Why? I love scenarios. It's that simple, they are even battles that can be taken in 15 minute chunks and then you can go do something else in between. Why do I do pqs in between? Because i want cool looking gear with good stats so that I can do better in scenarios. I also do all the regular quests as well because i enjoy WAR lore, and I plan to do more world RvR when i can but sadly i outleveled most of my guild due to the ungodly ammount of xp you get from scenarios. (Got 22k plus victory bonus in one last night)
Anti-Sanctus Chaotica. This is Ranghar from The Phoenix Guard. We run into you guys quite often. See you destruction loving psychopaths on the battlefield =p
I look forward to it. Here's an entertaining pic i found of our Keep Defense last night...
Ok here it goes again. If it was not AOC players coming around saying that bad reviews on forums killed their game now its annoying players or wow forced everyone to solo. This is starting to get insane here. I have played several games, Wow, lotR, Aoc, Tabula, and now War. I have played them solo and in groups. Out of all of them I have grouped more in wow than have in any game. Infact I think War makes it far more easier to just solo all the quests. I have done several PQs and not once did I see the need to join a group. The players there fought and did what we had to do defeat the bosses that came up. To me I thought the whole idea of PQs was to not force you to group. I have played wow for years and my mains have grouped up several times. I will say mostly with friends or guild mates. There many of times I group up with other people to do quests. The thing is once you lvled up several alts it easy to solo. Though I do not have high lvls in War, I went through one class to lvl to 8th to get the hang of it. Then I tried another class and I find it even easier to solo things besides PQs but even then to actually form a party I don't see the need. Those do Pqs at least on my server we work as a team some run around on their own but for the most part we work together with out needing to party up. PVP is almost the same. Whether open or scenarios we work together till we beaten to a pulp by destruction lol. I think the more popular something gets the more "annoying people" it attracts. New games are a prime target for these type of people. Though I really believe "annoying" or elitist players force more people to solo than anything. I am sure the deeper one gets into war the more grouping you will start to see.
Well, what confuses the hell out of me....If you are 'working together to complete a PQ' or 'working together to beat a scenario' how is that not grouping? Is it just not grouping because they arn't in the group window talking in group chat. A GROUP of players working together to do anything is a group. When there are 100 people trying to take a keep, and you are helping them do it, you are part of a group of players working to beat an objective. I just don't really get it. You don't have to FORM a group of players to do something. You just walk up and become a part of one, and I think that offers an amazing chance to get to know people who will often ask you to do other things with them in the future.
My point about PQs was in response to another post where he was complaining that people were not joining a party to do the PQ. My thought was that was the reason for the PQ so people did not have to party up. I like PQs and I like War just it promotes soloing just as much those who were complaining about wow.
Also, if people do not join up for PQs they will place last in the influence gained and get a crappy reward. Unless they are way over leveled in which case they would win anyway.
Agreed the community is the worst part of the game so far. Solo mind set is unreal in this game.
Hell people won't even form a party in a PQ when they are all doing the same shit anyway. It is craziness how everyone seems to think that soloing is this game is the right path.
WAR wasn't designed for solo play, it was designed for large scale team play and warbands.
Oh well.... back to the drawing board I guess.
The solo-only mindset doesn't surprise me at all... It's what most of the post-WoW mmo players were demanding/crying/whining/begging for in every MMO I've followed since WoW came out.
There goes your console/single-player "beat the game by yourself" mindset, come to full fruition.
I've seen it unfolding since WoW launched and could see where it was going. I said as much and was flamed back then. Looks like I was more right than wrong. That doesn't make me special... It was right out in the open and one needed only pay attention to how things were progressing to see where it was all heading.
It's gone like this:
- First players didn't want grouping to be necessary for all of the content on the way to end game. They wanted *some* soloability to fill in when they couldn't or didn't want to find groups.
They got it, and it was good enough for them. For a while.
- Before long, they complained of not having enough soloable content and the idea of some of the more "key" content requiring a group suddenly became offensive to them. They demanded it be more soloable, or more soloable alternatives be added.
They got it, and it was good enough for them. For a while.
- After a while, people started complaining if there was *any* group-centric content in the game. They argued that they should be able to solo to end-game if they so chose, and felt that only raids should require a group.
They mostly got their way and it was good enough for them. For a while.
- Not too long ago, I saw people actually beginning to argue for raid content to be more soloable because it's unfair to be forced to group to take on an epic battle like that.
We might be seeing the beginnings of that being delivered with public quests.
It's to the point now where you can log in, never say a word to another player if you don't want to and still do just fine.
And now the backlash begins... Those who actually do enjoy grouping - at least some of the time - are wondering what the hell happened to parties and why so many people seem to solo all the time.
In a nutshell... the post-WoW community got what they asked for. And now it's become a bitter pill to swallow for some.
QFT
This is basically EXACTLY what has happened and this will only get worse in time.
- Not too long ago, I saw people actually beginning to argue for raid content to be more soloable because it's unfair to be forced to group to take on an epic battle like that. We might be seeing the beginnings of that being delivered with public quests.
The problem I have with this statement is that grouping was a MEANS to accomplish a difficult, or supposed-to-be-difficult task. It was a MECHANIC, and until PQ's, the only mechanic available to instill a sense of epic accomplishment.
Put it this way - If it were possible to go back to the early days of WoW, when Onyxia was the big baddie on the block, and just walk into an instance where people were already fighting, would it have been a BAD thing?
The nice thing about PQ's is, you still NEED other people to accomplish said tasks, but the MECHANIC of how it's done is, in my opinion, greatly improved. No longer do I have to wait 4 hours for everyone who attempted the previous instance run with me to come online, manage all the groups and invites, ensure everyone is stocked with consumables needed, arrive at said instance, and have EVERYONE available for the upteen hours it will take to complete it.
Now, I just show up. If someone is there, then things go swimmingly. Someone in the PQ leaves? No problem. The PQ doesn't end for everyone. And you still want to HELP others, even if they're not in your group, guild or warband, because if you don't, they're going to die, and you won't be able to complete the PQ. And best of all, if you STILL for some reason want to wait and form raids or warbands to do a PQ, that option is still there. Nothing stops you from doing it.
I prefer this mechanic over the old one. By far. Now it's on my time, I don't inconvenience anyone else, and I still get to meet people or go with premade groups if I want to.
I don't really see the downside here, but that's just me.
Agreed the community is the worst part of the game so far. Solo mind set is unreal in this game.
Hell people won't even form a party in a PQ when they are all doing the same shit anyway. It is craziness how everyone seems to think that soloing is this game is the right path.
WAR wasn't designed for solo play, it was designed for large scale team play and warbands.
Oh well.... back to the drawing board I guess.
The solo-only mindset doesn't surprise me at all... It's what most of the post-WoW mmo players were demanding/crying/whining/begging for in every MMO I've followed since WoW came out.
There goes your console/single-player "beat the game by yourself" mindset, come to full fruition.
I've seen it unfolding since WoW launched and could see where it was going. I said as much and was flamed back then. Looks like I was more right than wrong. That doesn't make me special... It was right out in the open and one needed only pay attention to how things were progressing to see where it was all heading.
It's gone like this:
- First players didn't want grouping to be necessary for all of the content on the way to end game. They wanted *some* soloability to fill in when they couldn't or didn't want to find groups.
They got it, and it was good enough for them. For a while.
- Before long, they complained of not having enough soloable content and the idea of some of the more "key" content requiring a group suddenly became offensive to them. They demanded it be more soloable, or more soloable alternatives be added.
They got it, and it was good enough for them. For a while.
- After a while, people started complaining if there was *any* group-centric content in the game. They argued that they should be able to solo to end-game if they so chose, and felt that only raids should require a group.
They mostly got their way and it was good enough for them. For a while.
- Not too long ago, I saw people actually beginning to argue for raid content to be more soloable because it's unfair to be forced to group to take on an epic battle like that.
We might be seeing the beginnings of that being delivered with public quests.
It's to the point now where you can log in, never say a word to another player if you don't want to and still do just fine.
And now the backlash begins... Those who actually do enjoy grouping - at least some of the time - are wondering what the hell happened to parties and why so many people seem to solo all the time.
In a nutshell... the post-WoW community got what they asked for. And now it's become a bitter pill to swallow for some.
QFT
This is basically EXACTLY what has happened and this will only get worse in time.
Search out a fun, good guild. Problem solved. I can log on and get into a group at any time of the day or night 24/7. Certainly makes the game more rewarding and fun overall for me personally. If you're the type of player that wants to be grouped most of the time i would think you would have already taken this step.
Edit: Just wanted to add this- We also group with non guildies but its always more fun with people you know.
My point about PQs was in response to another post where he was complaining that people were not joining a party to do the PQ. My thought was that was the reason for the PQ so people did not have to party up. I like PQs and I like War just it promotes soloing just as much those who were complaining about wow.
And I was saying to me that is grouping. But, 90% of the time there is an open warband at the PQs you can join. Just hit the 'open parties list' then hit 'join party' and you are in one. You are right about it being the point, It allows you to complete an objective without sitting around in the capital and begging for a party for an hour. If you want small team parties go do the dungeons. I don't really care for dungeons, but try doing them without a group, hah.
EDIT: Forced grouping leaves some players out. I remember in DAOC that a lot of people didn't get invited to RvR groups for whatever reason. Being able to take part by just 'showing up' is a good thing, not a problem. It doesn't mean you shouldn't socialize, it just means you don't have to rely on other people to have a good time.
Well I like both aspects that War is using. That you can solo as well as group up. Almost all the quests I have ran across that are pve or in pve areas can be soloed . As for socializing have numerous times helped out people do their quests by showing them were it is or staying around to help fight off some of the mobs for them. I like the open RVR aspects to War. I can either join up with groups or just wander into the zones on my own and participate in the RvR. As for dungeons and pve like that not why I got the game. I was drawn more to the RvR and more of a mass pvp aspects. I agree I don't like having to rely on others to have a good time but I do socialize and help other players out. Even watch their backs. My main complaint was those people who are totally against people soloing things and were annoyed that someone would not accept an invite while in a PQ. lol that just seemed to contradict the idea of a PQ. That is just my take. Oh well.
I personally mostly do PQs and Scenarios. Why? I love scenarios. It's that simple, they are even battles that can be taken in 15 minute chunks and then you can go do something else in between. Why do I do pqs in between? Because i want cool looking gear with good stats so that I can do better in scenarios. I also do all the regular quests as well because i enjoy WAR lore, and I plan to do more world RvR when i can but sadly i outleveled most of my guild due to the ungodly ammount of xp you get from scenarios. (Got 22k plus victory bonus in one last night)
Anti-Sanctus Chaotica. This is Ranghar from The Phoenix Guard. We run into you guys quite often. See you destruction loving psychopaths on the battlefield =p
I look forward to it. Here's an entertaining pic i found of our Keep Defense last night...
Always entertaining to look at something from someone else's point of view.
We are currently one guild rank behind you guys, but for some reason most our people are pvping tier 2 with alts still, heh. They all got addicted to Mourkain because not many people were around to get tier 3 to pop.
a time machine to go back and delete WoW and a better group UI is what I think we need.
Gte a bloody grip, more peopel from aco, eq2, lotro ddo etc probably play war atm than they play wow. Soe get a bloody grip.. How about asking dont these players get it. Or are all these games immune to criticism? Infact hell does nobody form those games play war? Gte a dman grip. This site has degenrated so far into anarchy and misinformation, its now ok to spew total crpa as fact on this site.
- Not too long ago, I saw people actually beginning to argue for raid content to be more soloable because it's unfair to be forced to group to take on an epic battle like that. We might be seeing the beginnings of that being delivered with public quests.
The problem I have with this statement is that grouping was a MEANS to accomplish a difficult, or supposed-to-be-difficult task. It was a MECHANIC, and until PQ's, the only mechanic available to instill a sense of epic accomplishment.
Put it this way - If it were possible to go back to the early days of WoW, when Onyxia was the big baddie on the block, and just walk into an instance where people were already fighting, would it have been a BAD thing?
The nice thing about PQ's is, you still NEED other people to accomplish said tasks, but the MECHANIC of how it's done is, in my opinion, greatly improved. No longer do I have to wait 4 hours for everyone who attempted the previous instance run with me to come online, manage all the groups and invites, ensure everyone is stocked with consumables needed, arrive at said instance, and have EVERYONE available for the upteen hours it will take to complete it.
Now, I just show up. If someone is there, then things go swimmingly. Someone in the PQ leaves? No problem. The PQ doesn't end for everyone. And you still want to HELP others, even if they're not in your group, guild or warband, because if you don't, they're going to die, and you won't be able to complete the PQ. And best of all, if you STILL for some reason want to wait and form raids or warbands to do a PQ, that option is still there. Nothing stops you from doing it.
I prefer this mechanic over the old one. By far. Now it's on my time, I don't inconvenience anyone else, and I still get to meet people or go with premade groups if I want to.
I don't really see the downside here, but that's just me.
Thus why I said "might be".... It might be. It might not be. Who knows what the next logical step would be.
Don't get me wrong... I find PQ's to be a lot of fun in and of themselves. Looking at them from the bigger picture, though... they allow people to play among a group... but still play solo. You can run in, do your thing and still never say a word to the many people around you.
I've said "Congrats!" and "Good job!" to those around me when they've won the chest at the end... One or two others have ever done the same. Most just keep silent and go about doing their thing.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Agreed the community is the worst part of the game so far. Solo mind set is unreal in this game.
Hell people won't even form a party in a PQ when they are all doing the same shit anyway. It is craziness how everyone seems to think that soloing is this game is the right path.
WAR wasn't designed for solo play, it was designed for large scale team play and warbands.
Oh well.... back to the drawing board I guess.
The solo-only mindset doesn't surprise me at all... It's what most of the post-WoW mmo players were demanding/crying/whining/begging for in every MMO I've followed since WoW came out.
There goes your console/single-player "beat the game by yourself" mindset, come to full fruition.
I've seen it unfolding since WoW launched and could see where it was going. I said as much and was flamed back then. Looks like I was more right than wrong. That doesn't make me special... It was right out in the open and one needed only pay attention to how things were progressing to see where it was all heading.
It's gone like this:
- First players didn't want grouping to be necessary for all of the content on the way to end game. They wanted *some* soloability to fill in when they couldn't or didn't want to find groups.
They got it, and it was good enough for them. For a while.
- Before long, they complained of not having enough soloable content and the idea of some of the more "key" content requiring a group suddenly became offensive to them. They demanded it be more soloable, or more soloable alternatives be added.
They got it, and it was good enough for them. For a while.
- After a while, people started complaining if there was *any* group-centric content in the game. They argued that they should be able to solo to end-game if they so chose, and felt that only raids should require a group.
They mostly got their way and it was good enough for them. For a while.
- Not too long ago, I saw people actually beginning to argue for raid content to be more soloable because it's unfair to be forced to group to take on an epic battle like that.
We might be seeing the beginnings of that being delivered with public quests.
It's to the point now where you can log in, never say a word to another player if you don't want to and still do just fine.
And now the backlash begins... Those who actually do enjoy grouping - at least some of the time - are wondering what the hell happened to parties and why so many people seem to solo all the time.
In a nutshell... the post-WoW community got what they asked for. And now it's become a bitter pill to swallow for some.
QFT
This is basically EXACTLY what has happened and this will only get worse in time.
Search out a fun, good guild. Problem solved. I can log on and get into a group at any time of the day or night 24/7. Certainly makes the game more rewarding and fun overall for me personally. If you're the type of player that wants to be grouped most of the time i would think you would have already taken this step.
Edit: Just wanted to add this- We also group with non guildies but its always more fun with people you know.
I've tried that, actually. I've asked people about their guilds, are they recruiting, etc... They didn't even acknowledge I was there... and I'd asked them in /say, in /tell, etc.
They were simply too busy with doing their own thing to be bothered answering.
Perhaps I've just had really bad luck, but that's the experience I've had so far.
That said... guilds notwidthstanding, once upon a time, I could log in to any MMO I was playing, almost any time, and find people not only willing, but eager to group up and do things in a party. 'Groups' equaled 'Fun' to them. And if not, they were at least *social* for the most part.
Hell, I've been in guilds in other games over the past few years where the members barely even talked to each other.
The mindset has drastically changed over the past several yeas.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Agreed the community is the worst part of the game so far. Solo mind set is unreal in this game.
Hell people won't even form a party in a PQ when they are all doing the same shit anyway. It is craziness how everyone seems to think that soloing is this game is the right path.
WAR wasn't designed for solo play, it was designed for large scale team play and warbands.
Oh well.... back to the drawing board I guess.
The solo-only mindset doesn't surprise me at all... It's what most of the post-WoW mmo players were demanding/crying/whining/begging for in every MMO I've followed since WoW came out.
There goes your console/single-player "beat the game by yourself" mindset, come to full fruition.
I've seen it unfolding since WoW launched and could see where it was going. I said as much and was flamed back then. Looks like I was more right than wrong. That doesn't make me special... It was right out in the open and one needed only pay attention to how things were progressing to see where it was all heading.
It's gone like this:
- First players didn't want grouping to be necessary for all of the content on the way to end game. They wanted *some* soloability to fill in when they couldn't or didn't want to find groups.
They got it, and it was good enough for them. For a while.
- Before long, they complained of not having enough soloable content and the idea of some of the more "key" content requiring a group suddenly became offensive to them. They demanded it be more soloable, or more soloable alternatives be added.
They got it, and it was good enough for them. For a while.
- After a while, people started complaining if there was *any* group-centric content in the game. They argued that they should be able to solo to end-game if they so chose, and felt that only raids should require a group.
They mostly got their way and it was good enough for them. For a while.
- Not too long ago, I saw people actually beginning to argue for raid content to be more soloable because it's unfair to be forced to group to take on an epic battle like that.
We might be seeing the beginnings of that being delivered with public quests.
It's to the point now where you can log in, never say a word to another player if you don't want to and still do just fine.
And now the backlash begins... Those who actually do enjoy grouping - at least some of the time - are wondering what the hell happened to parties and why so many people seem to solo all the time.
In a nutshell... the post-WoW community got what they asked for. And now it's become a bitter pill to swallow for some.
QFT
This is basically EXACTLY what has happened and this will only get worse in time.
Search out a fun, good guild. Problem solved. I can log on and get into a group at any time of the day or night 24/7. Certainly makes the game more rewarding and fun overall for me personally. If you're the type of player that wants to be grouped most of the time i would think you would have already taken this step.
Edit: Just wanted to add this- We also group with non guildies but its always more fun with people you know.
I've tried that, actually. I've asked people about their guilds, are they recruiting, etc... They didn't even acknowledge I was there... and I'd asked them in /say, in /tell, etc.
They were simply too busy with doing their own thing to be bothered answering.
Perhaps I've just had really bad luck, but that's the experience I've had so far.
That said... guilds notwidthstanding, once upon a time, I could log in to any MMO I was playing, almost any time, and find people not only willing, but eager to group up and do things in a party. 'Groups' equaled 'Fun' to them. And if not, they were at least *social* for the most part.
Hell, I've been in guilds in other games over the past few years where the members barely even talked to each other.
The mindset has drastically changed over the past several yeas.
Every member of my guild is from DAOC. You just have to find one of the old school guilds if you want the old school mindset We rarely do anything not as a group, and we don't house an elitist attitude.
Also, I would recommend a roleplaying server. We rolled on Phoenix Throne with the intention of avoiding most of the kiddies, and it has worked so far. *knocks on wood*.
I talked to a few people in a party today doing a PQ and was blown away by their conversation. Two of them pretty much said all they do is grind PQs over and over to get influence to get gear and then all they do other than that is sit and wait to get into scenarios so they can get in "some real PVP action". Seriously! They seem so warped/misguided on "best gear = best in PvP and PvP=path to endgame" that is was shocking. I tried to suggest they get into some quests, explore a bit for tome unlocks (which do lead to tome tactics!), etc. but they acted like that a foriegn concept. Then I mention open RvR and it was like I was insane to them. Is this really just an effect of WOW's play mechanics or what? I thought the WOW factor was really just seeing folks pole dancing and bunny hoping in battles, but this goes even further......like missing the whole game!
You make it sound as if those features only can be found in a person who have played wow. GG
a time machine to go back and delete WoW and a better group UI is what I think we need.
Gte a bloody grip, more peopel from aco, eq2, lotro ddo etc probably play war atm than they play wow. Soe get a bloody grip.. How about asking dont these players get it. Or are all these games immune to criticism? Infact hell does nobody form those games play war? Gte a dman grip. This site has degenrated so far into anarchy and misinformation, its now ok to spew total crpa as fact on this site.
What you say?
Man I was thinking the same thing.......what the heck did he say? it's like....he's here but his mind is trying to do something else lol
I think the OP's statement was directed to the fact that until WOW came about teamplay, grouping, and the such were much more in play.
WoW brought about the age of leetomgbbqftw and everyone solo grinding to max, BGing for points over teamplay and arena in 2,3 or 5 for gearz.
It is a WoW specific problem as opposed to other games who encourage team play. WoW encourages solo play and solo mindset.
In essence WoW is to blame for a lot of the way new age players interact with each other. Agreed more WAR players came from other games NOT wow, but even those players prolly started in wow and have always and only know the solo mentality.
Or you could put it this way: Blizzard figured out that most gamers don't want to wait around for 30-60 minutes to get into a group, only to find out that they are all a bunch of ninja-looting schmucks, or have to leave to do their homework 15 minutes later.
So they were smart, and made the game more solo friendly, while at the same time keeping plenty of group content in the game.
____________________________________________ im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
- Not too long ago, I saw people actually beginning to argue for raid content to be more soloable because it's unfair to be forced to group to take on an epic battle like that. We might be seeing the beginnings of that being delivered with public quests. ...
...
This is the most bassackwards thing I've read in a long time. Public quests are a way to encourage group play, not provide a way around it. The fact that it doesn't take all day to get involved in a public quest and actually finish it doesn't make it any less of a group experience.
____________________________________________ im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
a time machine to go back and delete WoW and a better group UI is what I think we need.
If WoW wasn't created, and WAR still came out, then WAR would be a completely different game. Truth be dat.
Doubt it, War is WAY more DAOC based than WOW.
I think it was a mistake to put in scenarios given the WOWboys fetish with them. I am already hearing reports of empty RVR zones. FORCE the n00bs to play RVR only, they'll learn to love it with time.
Then again, these reports may be false. The trolling on this forum is unprecedented.
So this post is taking a shot at WoW players for whatever lame reason, and we now see between 3 launch areas for WAR 500k players, wonder how many he is meeting that are from WoW or perhaps he met people from other games and just wanted to blame WoW since that is the cool thing to do lately.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
Ex- wow players probably wont get warhammer untill they reach midgame.
Theres no grinding pve untill endgame, followed by grinding to aquire the best gear or become a useless gimp. Its a big change of mindset to go from this to warhammers style.
Also its a huge midset change going from a solo type game to a teambased game. I see a lot of wow players ( i ask lots of people in game if they are a wow player) in PQ's and open field RvR acting like its a solo killing spree, then bitching if we dont win.
Another huge midset change that the wow player is going to have to go through is the fact that getting killed in RvR isnt such a big deal, either is losing the RvR battle. All it means is you gotta work toghether to find a way to win. Constantly losing and finding a way to overcome that is what i find so fun.
I think its going to take, for an ex wow player to get warhammer, a guild to straighten them out, get them in the right midset to succeed in warhammer. Also i think once they learn how to play the team based RvR right they are going to love the complexity and good feeling they get when you steamroll more enemy players than you have on your tight knit team.
In my opinion its a great feeling of accomplishment than the typical 1vs1 pvp win or to run up to someone and gank them. Using a strategy and having it work to your advantage when outnumbers is a really fun thing.
I talked to a few people in a party today doing a PQ and was blown away by their conversation. Two of them pretty much said all they do is grind PQs over and over to get influence to get gear and then all they do other than that is sit and wait to get into scenarios so they can get in "some real PVP action". Seriously! They seem so warped/misguided on "best gear = best in PvP and PvP=path to endgame" that is was shocking. I tried to suggest they get into some quests, explore a bit for tome unlocks (which do lead to tome tactics!), etc. but they acted like that a foriegn concept. Then I mention open RvR and it was like I was insane to them. Is this really just an effect of WOW's play mechanics or what? I thought the WOW factor was really just seeing folks pole dancing and bunny hoping in battles, but this goes even further......like missing the whole game!
I've been trying to tell people for a couple years that WoW has created a generation of brainwashed gamers. WoW is the only game they've probably played, and it's had a HEAVY influence on their game views (as if they deserve one since I wouldn't call them "gamers."
I've played with numerous people who refuse to try any other game/mmo. And when they do they usually hate it because "it's not WoW."
Oh well, I've been taking a break from mmos anyway, playing through the Call of Duty series right now. w00t!
That's the way these things go. However your friends are well informed because most MMO's do in fact suck. Some are MMO's are pretty good, but compared to Warcraft they just don't hold up. I'd call it sticking with what they like more than "brainwashed".
No one is making us play Warcraft. People do actually like the game, unbelievable as that is.
Comments
That is just it joining a party in a PQ is sort of contradicting if you join a group. I never said that I had a desire to be in small groups or large ones. I have been in both. Not even sure what your taking issue with from what I posted. I like the fact in War you can solo or go right into warbands. For the most part though you can solo about any quest on the tiers I am on. I even grouped up in some of the quests, but you can still doing it on your own. Everything was in a response to the idea that wow made people solo. War tends promote it too and I don't think that is a bad thing as people are making it. I am sure in upper tiers which I am looking forward to there will be more need for grouping if not more team work on a larger scale. Don't get me wrong love this game and want to see more mass combat . To be frank if I wanted play this game for pve and small dungeons I would be playing wow. I am looking for more the mass combat and rvr aspects of the game.
Anti-Sanctus Chaotica. This is Ranghar from The Phoenix Guard. We run into you guys quite often. See you destruction loving psychopaths on the battlefield =p
I look forward to it. Here's an entertaining pic i found of our Keep Defense last night...
http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stumpwaterm014au4.jpg
Always entertaining to look at something from someone else's point of view.
Well, what confuses the hell out of me....If you are 'working together to complete a PQ' or 'working together to beat a scenario' how is that not grouping? Is it just not grouping because they arn't in the group window talking in group chat. A GROUP of players working together to do anything is a group. When there are 100 people trying to take a keep, and you are helping them do it, you are part of a group of players working to beat an objective. I just don't really get it. You don't have to FORM a group of players to do something. You just walk up and become a part of one, and I think that offers an amazing chance to get to know people who will often ask you to do other things with them in the future.
My point about PQs was in response to another post where he was complaining that people were not joining a party to do the PQ. My thought was that was the reason for the PQ so people did not have to party up. I like PQs and I like War just it promotes soloing just as much those who were complaining about wow.
Also, if people do not join up for PQs they will place last in the influence gained and get a crappy reward. Unless they are way over leveled in which case they would win anyway.
The solo-only mindset doesn't surprise me at all... It's what most of the post-WoW mmo players were demanding/crying/whining/begging for in every MMO I've followed since WoW came out.
There goes your console/single-player "beat the game by yourself" mindset, come to full fruition.
I've seen it unfolding since WoW launched and could see where it was going. I said as much and was flamed back then. Looks like I was more right than wrong. That doesn't make me special... It was right out in the open and one needed only pay attention to how things were progressing to see where it was all heading.
It's gone like this:
- First players didn't want grouping to be necessary for all of the content on the way to end game. They wanted *some* soloability to fill in when they couldn't or didn't want to find groups.
They got it, and it was good enough for them. For a while.
- Before long, they complained of not having enough soloable content and the idea of some of the more "key" content requiring a group suddenly became offensive to them. They demanded it be more soloable, or more soloable alternatives be added.
They got it, and it was good enough for them. For a while.
- After a while, people started complaining if there was *any* group-centric content in the game. They argued that they should be able to solo to end-game if they so chose, and felt that only raids should require a group.
They mostly got their way and it was good enough for them. For a while.
- Not too long ago, I saw people actually beginning to argue for raid content to be more soloable because it's unfair to be forced to group to take on an epic battle like that.
We might be seeing the beginnings of that being delivered with public quests.
It's to the point now where you can log in, never say a word to another player if you don't want to and still do just fine.
And now the backlash begins... Those who actually do enjoy grouping - at least some of the time - are wondering what the hell happened to parties and why so many people seem to solo all the time.
In a nutshell... the post-WoW community got what they asked for. And now it's become a bitter pill to swallow for some.
QFT
This is basically EXACTLY what has happened and this will only get worse in time.
A MMO world without wowers *sigh* good old times
The problem I have with this statement is that grouping was a MEANS to accomplish a difficult, or supposed-to-be-difficult task. It was a MECHANIC, and until PQ's, the only mechanic available to instill a sense of epic accomplishment.
Put it this way - If it were possible to go back to the early days of WoW, when Onyxia was the big baddie on the block, and just walk into an instance where people were already fighting, would it have been a BAD thing?
The nice thing about PQ's is, you still NEED other people to accomplish said tasks, but the MECHANIC of how it's done is, in my opinion, greatly improved. No longer do I have to wait 4 hours for everyone who attempted the previous instance run with me to come online, manage all the groups and invites, ensure everyone is stocked with consumables needed, arrive at said instance, and have EVERYONE available for the upteen hours it will take to complete it.
Now, I just show up. If someone is there, then things go swimmingly. Someone in the PQ leaves? No problem. The PQ doesn't end for everyone. And you still want to HELP others, even if they're not in your group, guild or warband, because if you don't, they're going to die, and you won't be able to complete the PQ. And best of all, if you STILL for some reason want to wait and form raids or warbands to do a PQ, that option is still there. Nothing stops you from doing it.
I prefer this mechanic over the old one. By far. Now it's on my time, I don't inconvenience anyone else, and I still get to meet people or go with premade groups if I want to.
I don't really see the downside here, but that's just me.
The solo-only mindset doesn't surprise me at all... It's what most of the post-WoW mmo players were demanding/crying/whining/begging for in every MMO I've followed since WoW came out.
There goes your console/single-player "beat the game by yourself" mindset, come to full fruition.
I've seen it unfolding since WoW launched and could see where it was going. I said as much and was flamed back then. Looks like I was more right than wrong. That doesn't make me special... It was right out in the open and one needed only pay attention to how things were progressing to see where it was all heading.
It's gone like this:
- First players didn't want grouping to be necessary for all of the content on the way to end game. They wanted *some* soloability to fill in when they couldn't or didn't want to find groups.
They got it, and it was good enough for them. For a while.
- Before long, they complained of not having enough soloable content and the idea of some of the more "key" content requiring a group suddenly became offensive to them. They demanded it be more soloable, or more soloable alternatives be added.
They got it, and it was good enough for them. For a while.
- After a while, people started complaining if there was *any* group-centric content in the game. They argued that they should be able to solo to end-game if they so chose, and felt that only raids should require a group.
They mostly got their way and it was good enough for them. For a while.
- Not too long ago, I saw people actually beginning to argue for raid content to be more soloable because it's unfair to be forced to group to take on an epic battle like that.
We might be seeing the beginnings of that being delivered with public quests.
It's to the point now where you can log in, never say a word to another player if you don't want to and still do just fine.
And now the backlash begins... Those who actually do enjoy grouping - at least some of the time - are wondering what the hell happened to parties and why so many people seem to solo all the time.
In a nutshell... the post-WoW community got what they asked for. And now it's become a bitter pill to swallow for some.
QFT
This is basically EXACTLY what has happened and this will only get worse in time.
Search out a fun, good guild. Problem solved. I can log on and get into a group at any time of the day or night 24/7. Certainly makes the game more rewarding and fun overall for me personally. If you're the type of player that wants to be grouped most of the time i would think you would have already taken this step.
Edit: Just wanted to add this- We also group with non guildies but its always more fun with people you know.
And I was saying to me that is grouping. But, 90% of the time there is an open warband at the PQs you can join. Just hit the 'open parties list' then hit 'join party' and you are in one. You are right about it being the point, It allows you to complete an objective without sitting around in the capital and begging for a party for an hour. If you want small team parties go do the dungeons. I don't really care for dungeons, but try doing them without a group, hah.
EDIT: Forced grouping leaves some players out. I remember in DAOC that a lot of people didn't get invited to RvR groups for whatever reason. Being able to take part by just 'showing up' is a good thing, not a problem. It doesn't mean you shouldn't socialize, it just means you don't have to rely on other people to have a good time.
Well I like both aspects that War is using. That you can solo as well as group up. Almost all the quests I have ran across that are pve or in pve areas can be soloed . As for socializing have numerous times helped out people do their quests by showing them were it is or staying around to help fight off some of the mobs for them. I like the open RVR aspects to War. I can either join up with groups or just wander into the zones on my own and participate in the RvR. As for dungeons and pve like that not why I got the game. I was drawn more to the RvR and more of a mass pvp aspects. I agree I don't like having to rely on others to have a good time but I do socialize and help other players out. Even watch their backs. My main complaint was those people who are totally against people soloing things and were annoyed that someone would not accept an invite while in a PQ. lol that just seemed to contradict the idea of a PQ. That is just my take. Oh well.
Anti-Sanctus Chaotica. This is Ranghar from The Phoenix Guard. We run into you guys quite often. See you destruction loving psychopaths on the battlefield =p
I look forward to it. Here's an entertaining pic i found of our Keep Defense last night...
http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stumpwaterm014au4.jpg
Always entertaining to look at something from someone else's point of view.
We are currently one guild rank behind you guys, but for some reason most our people are pvping tier 2 with alts still, heh. They all got addicted to Mourkain because not many people were around to get tier 3 to pop.
Ranghar LoD
Lords of Death
Gte a bloody grip, more peopel from aco, eq2, lotro ddo etc probably play war atm than they play wow. Soe get a bloody grip.. How about asking dont these players get it. Or are all these games immune to criticism? Infact hell does nobody form those games play war? Gte a dman grip. This site has degenrated so far into anarchy and misinformation, its now ok to spew total crpa as fact on this site.
What you say?
The problem I have with this statement is that grouping was a MEANS to accomplish a difficult, or supposed-to-be-difficult task. It was a MECHANIC, and until PQ's, the only mechanic available to instill a sense of epic accomplishment.
Put it this way - If it were possible to go back to the early days of WoW, when Onyxia was the big baddie on the block, and just walk into an instance where people were already fighting, would it have been a BAD thing?
The nice thing about PQ's is, you still NEED other people to accomplish said tasks, but the MECHANIC of how it's done is, in my opinion, greatly improved. No longer do I have to wait 4 hours for everyone who attempted the previous instance run with me to come online, manage all the groups and invites, ensure everyone is stocked with consumables needed, arrive at said instance, and have EVERYONE available for the upteen hours it will take to complete it.
Now, I just show up. If someone is there, then things go swimmingly. Someone in the PQ leaves? No problem. The PQ doesn't end for everyone. And you still want to HELP others, even if they're not in your group, guild or warband, because if you don't, they're going to die, and you won't be able to complete the PQ. And best of all, if you STILL for some reason want to wait and form raids or warbands to do a PQ, that option is still there. Nothing stops you from doing it.
I prefer this mechanic over the old one. By far. Now it's on my time, I don't inconvenience anyone else, and I still get to meet people or go with premade groups if I want to.
I don't really see the downside here, but that's just me.
Thus why I said "might be".... It might be. It might not be. Who knows what the next logical step would be.
Don't get me wrong... I find PQ's to be a lot of fun in and of themselves. Looking at them from the bigger picture, though... they allow people to play among a group... but still play solo. You can run in, do your thing and still never say a word to the many people around you.
I've said "Congrats!" and "Good job!" to those around me when they've won the chest at the end... One or two others have ever done the same. Most just keep silent and go about doing their thing.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
The solo-only mindset doesn't surprise me at all... It's what most of the post-WoW mmo players were demanding/crying/whining/begging for in every MMO I've followed since WoW came out.
There goes your console/single-player "beat the game by yourself" mindset, come to full fruition.
I've seen it unfolding since WoW launched and could see where it was going. I said as much and was flamed back then. Looks like I was more right than wrong. That doesn't make me special... It was right out in the open and one needed only pay attention to how things were progressing to see where it was all heading.
It's gone like this:
- First players didn't want grouping to be necessary for all of the content on the way to end game. They wanted *some* soloability to fill in when they couldn't or didn't want to find groups.
They got it, and it was good enough for them. For a while.
- Before long, they complained of not having enough soloable content and the idea of some of the more "key" content requiring a group suddenly became offensive to them. They demanded it be more soloable, or more soloable alternatives be added.
They got it, and it was good enough for them. For a while.
- After a while, people started complaining if there was *any* group-centric content in the game. They argued that they should be able to solo to end-game if they so chose, and felt that only raids should require a group.
They mostly got their way and it was good enough for them. For a while.
- Not too long ago, I saw people actually beginning to argue for raid content to be more soloable because it's unfair to be forced to group to take on an epic battle like that.
We might be seeing the beginnings of that being delivered with public quests.
It's to the point now where you can log in, never say a word to another player if you don't want to and still do just fine.
And now the backlash begins... Those who actually do enjoy grouping - at least some of the time - are wondering what the hell happened to parties and why so many people seem to solo all the time.
In a nutshell... the post-WoW community got what they asked for. And now it's become a bitter pill to swallow for some.
QFT
This is basically EXACTLY what has happened and this will only get worse in time.
Search out a fun, good guild. Problem solved. I can log on and get into a group at any time of the day or night 24/7. Certainly makes the game more rewarding and fun overall for me personally. If you're the type of player that wants to be grouped most of the time i would think you would have already taken this step.
Edit: Just wanted to add this- We also group with non guildies but its always more fun with people you know.
I've tried that, actually. I've asked people about their guilds, are they recruiting, etc... They didn't even acknowledge I was there... and I'd asked them in /say, in /tell, etc.
They were simply too busy with doing their own thing to be bothered answering.
Perhaps I've just had really bad luck, but that's the experience I've had so far.
That said... guilds notwidthstanding, once upon a time, I could log in to any MMO I was playing, almost any time, and find people not only willing, but eager to group up and do things in a party. 'Groups' equaled 'Fun' to them. And if not, they were at least *social* for the most part.
Hell, I've been in guilds in other games over the past few years where the members barely even talked to each other.
The mindset has drastically changed over the past several yeas.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Hey Mike come to Sylvania server and help us build up the engineer corps.
We might can have an impact... maybe...
The solo-only mindset doesn't surprise me at all... It's what most of the post-WoW mmo players were demanding/crying/whining/begging for in every MMO I've followed since WoW came out.
There goes your console/single-player "beat the game by yourself" mindset, come to full fruition.
I've seen it unfolding since WoW launched and could see where it was going. I said as much and was flamed back then. Looks like I was more right than wrong. That doesn't make me special... It was right out in the open and one needed only pay attention to how things were progressing to see where it was all heading.
It's gone like this:
- First players didn't want grouping to be necessary for all of the content on the way to end game. They wanted *some* soloability to fill in when they couldn't or didn't want to find groups.
They got it, and it was good enough for them. For a while.
- Before long, they complained of not having enough soloable content and the idea of some of the more "key" content requiring a group suddenly became offensive to them. They demanded it be more soloable, or more soloable alternatives be added.
They got it, and it was good enough for them. For a while.
- After a while, people started complaining if there was *any* group-centric content in the game. They argued that they should be able to solo to end-game if they so chose, and felt that only raids should require a group.
They mostly got their way and it was good enough for them. For a while.
- Not too long ago, I saw people actually beginning to argue for raid content to be more soloable because it's unfair to be forced to group to take on an epic battle like that.
We might be seeing the beginnings of that being delivered with public quests.
It's to the point now where you can log in, never say a word to another player if you don't want to and still do just fine.
And now the backlash begins... Those who actually do enjoy grouping - at least some of the time - are wondering what the hell happened to parties and why so many people seem to solo all the time.
In a nutshell... the post-WoW community got what they asked for. And now it's become a bitter pill to swallow for some.
QFT
This is basically EXACTLY what has happened and this will only get worse in time.
Search out a fun, good guild. Problem solved. I can log on and get into a group at any time of the day or night 24/7. Certainly makes the game more rewarding and fun overall for me personally. If you're the type of player that wants to be grouped most of the time i would think you would have already taken this step.
Edit: Just wanted to add this- We also group with non guildies but its always more fun with people you know.
I've tried that, actually. I've asked people about their guilds, are they recruiting, etc... They didn't even acknowledge I was there... and I'd asked them in /say, in /tell, etc.
They were simply too busy with doing their own thing to be bothered answering.
Perhaps I've just had really bad luck, but that's the experience I've had so far.
That said... guilds notwidthstanding, once upon a time, I could log in to any MMO I was playing, almost any time, and find people not only willing, but eager to group up and do things in a party. 'Groups' equaled 'Fun' to them. And if not, they were at least *social* for the most part.
Hell, I've been in guilds in other games over the past few years where the members barely even talked to each other.
The mindset has drastically changed over the past several yeas.
Every member of my guild is from DAOC. You just have to find one of the old school guilds if you want the old school mindset
We rarely do anything not as a group, and we don't house an elitist attitude.
http://realmwar.warhammeronline.com/realmwar/GuildInfo.war?id=34&server=166
Also, I would recommend a roleplaying server. We rolled on Phoenix Throne with the intention of avoiding most of the kiddies, and it has worked so far. *knocks on wood*.
Ranghar LoD
Lords of Death
You make it sound as if those features only can be found in a person who have played wow. GG
URL="http://www.darkfallonline.com/"]IMG]http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l1/rwp80/Darkfall Ad Banners/DFadsigbanner5.jpg[/IMG][/url]
Gte a bloody grip, more peopel from aco, eq2, lotro ddo etc probably play war atm than they play wow. Soe get a bloody grip.. How about asking dont these players get it. Or are all these games immune to criticism? Infact hell does nobody form those games play war? Gte a dman grip. This site has degenrated so far into anarchy and misinformation, its now ok to spew total crpa as fact on this site.
What you say?
Man I was thinking the same thing.......what the heck did he say? it's like....he's here but his mind is trying to do something else lol
Or you could put it this way: Blizzard figured out that most gamers don't want to wait around for 30-60 minutes to get into a group, only to find out that they are all a bunch of ninja-looting schmucks, or have to leave to do their homework 15 minutes later.
So they were smart, and made the game more solo friendly, while at the same time keeping plenty of group content in the game.
____________________________________________
im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
...
This is the most bassackwards thing I've read in a long time. Public quests are a way to encourage group play, not provide a way around it. The fact that it doesn't take all day to get involved in a public quest and actually finish it doesn't make it any less of a group experience.
____________________________________________
im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good
If WoW wasn't created, and WAR still came out, then WAR would be a completely different game. Truth be dat.
Doubt it, War is WAY more DAOC based than WOW.
I think it was a mistake to put in scenarios given the WOWboys fetish with them. I am already hearing reports of empty RVR zones. FORCE the n00bs to play RVR only, they'll learn to love it with time.
Then again, these reports may be false. The trolling on this forum is unprecedented.
Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice.
So this post is taking a shot at WoW players for whatever lame reason, and we now see between 3 launch areas for WAR 500k players, wonder how many he is meeting that are from WoW or perhaps he met people from other games and just wanted to blame WoW since that is the cool thing to do lately.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
WoW players stay the hell in your game.. Im absolutely not missing you. I'd be happy if you play more wow with the new expansion
I'm sure they'll eventually make it auto group on PQ entering. Idk. Wow ruined MMOs forever x 1000
Ex- wow players probably wont get warhammer untill they reach midgame.
Theres no grinding pve untill endgame, followed by grinding to aquire the best gear or become a useless gimp. Its a big change of mindset to go from this to warhammers style.
Also its a huge midset change going from a solo type game to a teambased game. I see a lot of wow players ( i ask lots of people in game if they are a wow player) in PQ's and open field RvR acting like its a solo killing spree, then bitching if we dont win.
Another huge midset change that the wow player is going to have to go through is the fact that getting killed in RvR isnt such a big deal, either is losing the RvR battle. All it means is you gotta work toghether to find a way to win. Constantly losing and finding a way to overcome that is what i find so fun.
I think its going to take, for an ex wow player to get warhammer, a guild to straighten them out, get them in the right midset to succeed in warhammer. Also i think once they learn how to play the team based RvR right they are going to love the complexity and good feeling they get when you steamroll more enemy players than you have on your tight knit team.
In my opinion its a great feeling of accomplishment than the typical 1vs1 pvp win or to run up to someone and gank them. Using a strategy and having it work to your advantage when outnumbers is a really fun thing.
I've been trying to tell people for a couple years that WoW has created a generation of brainwashed gamers. WoW is the only game they've probably played, and it's had a HEAVY influence on their game views (as if they deserve one since I wouldn't call them "gamers."
I've played with numerous people who refuse to try any other game/mmo. And when they do they usually hate it because "it's not WoW."
Oh well, I've been taking a break from mmos anyway, playing through the Call of Duty series right now. w00t!
That's the way these things go. However your friends are well informed because most MMO's do in fact suck. Some are MMO's are pretty good, but compared to Warcraft they just don't hold up. I'd call it sticking with what they like more than "brainwashed".
No one is making us play Warcraft. People do actually like the game, unbelievable as that is.
This is such an ignorant statement. How many thousands of people currently playing WAR would have gotten into mmorpgs if WoW had never existed?
Hopefully fewer enuff to get rid of mass market, which ruined mmorpgs entirely.
Hell, mass market ruins/ruined everything, not just mmos
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