Oh I have been in plenty of closed betas, probably more times than you had breakfest, don't you worry about that. It's pretty fun you already tried to dismiss that before I even mentioned it just to keep your own assumption alive. It's pretty sad you have to attack the poster first in order to get your point across.
"But I'm sure you'll shoot back with some quickly made-up BS about being a programmer, or being a closed beta tester for a ton of games."
Called it!
Since you couldn't really respond intelligently to any of the detailed information i wrote about betas, hardware tests, etc, I'll take the above (and the other 2 paragraphs not worth of mention) as "I have nothing, I desparately need to just stop talking but I can't control myself enough to actually do it".
Ofcourse you called it, it was an extremely poor attempt at trying to attack my credibility.You first claim that I have never been involved in beta and then quickly add "But i'm sure you'll say you have" to take away my chance to argue that I do, in fact, have been part of betas. It's the lowest form of debate. Thats like me walking up to a microsoft employee and say to him "Well you'll come up with some quickly made-up bs about being a software developer" and then when he answers "Well I happen to be a software developer" I yell "OMGZ, CALLED IT!!!11".
detailed information? Sorry, but what detailed information? All you did was mention a procedure that i'm sure is being used by some software developer, but the cold, hard, undeniable fact is that you have no idea how Adventurine is going to test their hardware. You don't even know what kind of hardware they are testing, heck, you don't even know what beta or alpha stage they are in.
Oh god he's still talking!
Thanks for the Sunday morning entertainment...there's nothing like watching some poor ignorant fool make an ass of himself over a video game. Making statements like "I've been in many closed betas, more times than you've had breakfast" are a 100% BS indicator. That's fine, though, what really counts for you is whats in your own head, and I'm sure there you've been in them all. *head pat*
I don't know what kind of hardware they're testing? Let's think about that long and hard for a moment. Although i'm sure you're still drawing a blank there, I think other readers will have no problem understanding what kind of hardware they might be looking at.
Overall...a few months ago, alot of the OMG DF LOLOLOL arguments had a decent amount of merit. But here's what's happened in the past few months, and the DF troll responses to each:
Aventurine announces upcoming video. Trolls: haha video won't happen!
Video comes out: LOL! Just a video, the game is vaporware still!
Beta is announced: OMG WTF, no way the beta will ever actually happen!
-> Initial round of beta begins: LOLZ its not a real beta! *(pay attention here)
...fast forward into the near future:
Full closed beta begins: Uh...um sure uh GODZ N HEROES DIED IN CB HAHA
Open beta begins and ends: Er....
Release date announced, subscription plans & launch events revealed: Um...uh...
DF released: HAHA ITS ALL A CONSPIRACY, EVERYBODY PLAYING DF IS LYING, THERE IS NO GAME, ITS JUST A TRICK, LOLOLOLOLololol.....
---
I think we see the logic operating here. Its an unfortunate fact that many people aren't mature enough to simply stop speaking when they have no ground to stand on and skulk away. Actually, for the rest of us, it really is priceless, because we get to not only watch people eat their words every few weeks, but we get too laugh as they immediately set themselves up again.
Why did you type all that? Seriously? You didn't back up your argument AT ALL. In your previous post you at least TRIED to back up the argument, the argument was flawed but at least you tried. Now you're just trying to grasp at flaws.
Personally, I think Darkfall will eventually release. People will then realise that the game is not even half of what its promised to be and then continue to flame it on the forums for months. thats exactly the reason why minimal effort is done to actually show off the game. There have been how many actual gameplay footage videos release? 1 or 2? all looked like they were developed with realmcrafter.
You want to talk logic? here is logic. It took Blizzard 4 ~ 5 years, hundreds of developers and millions of dollars get WoW where it was at launch, a world that can be populated by about 2k people at a time. Adventurine has only a few developers and barely any funds yet promises a world large enough to populate at least ten thousand players, hundreds of skills and prestige classes and lots of other stuff that other similar games such as Dark & Light, Irth and Mourning have promised. All those launched, turned out to be only half of what was promised and eventually crashed and burned, and I don't see ANY reason why darkfall will be any different.
the cold hard fact is that you need years of dedicated, a big team and a good amount of funds to create such an ambitious mmorpg, and Adventurine only has the dedication.
Why did you type all that? Seriously? You didn't back up your argument AT ALL. In your previous post you at least TRIED to back up the argument, the argument was flawed but at least you tried. Now you're just trying to grasp at flaws. Personally, I think Darkfall will eventually release. People will then realise that the game is not even half of what its promised to be and then continue to flame it on the forums for months. thats exactly the reason why minimal effort is done to actually show off the game. There have been how many actual gameplay footage videos release? 1 or 2? all looked like they were developed with realmcrafter.
I can see you're winding down here (which is a good thing, trust me, since you've added nothing useful here, and most of us are dumber for having been exposed to you). And thanks for following exactly the reasoning path I laid out (LOLZ GAME VIDEO! LOLZ NOT A REAL BETA!).
There's really nothing left to argue. I gave you a straightforward and easy-to-understand description of a hardware & playtesting beta, explained why a benchmarking program would not be sufficient for testing, identified that, as trolls usually do, you would toss out some BS about being a beta testing expert, and described the agonizingly flawed reasoning path that you and other DF trolls are clearly following.
The sum total of what you could give me: "I've been in more closed betas than times you've had breakfast". Claiming that you've been in over ten thousand CBs doesn't exactly scream credibility.
There's really nowhere else to go. It would be like arguing with a cow at this point--it clearly wouldn't get it, and I'd be wasting my time.
In the future, once we find out that yes, as logic would predict, the hardware test involves a GEE WHIZ REAL GAME CLIENT you'll come up with more nonsense about the next phase of beta.
Until then, unless you have something intelligent, experienced and thoughful to say about betas & software development...try as hard as you can to not embarass yourself further.
Why did you type all that? Seriously? You didn't back up your argument AT ALL. In your previous post you at least TRIED to back up the argument, the argument was flawed but at least you tried. Now you're just trying to grasp at flaws. Personally, I think Darkfall will eventually release. People will then realise that the game is not even half of what its promised to be and then continue to flame it on the forums for months. thats exactly the reason why minimal effort is done to actually show off the game. There have been how many actual gameplay footage videos release? 1 or 2? all looked like they were developed with realmcrafter.
I can see you're winding down here (which is a good thing, trust me, since you've added nothing useful here, and most of us are dumber for having been exposed to you). And thanks for following exactly the reasoning path I laid out (LOLZ GAME VIDEO! LOLZ NOT A REAL BETA!).
There's really nothing left to argue. I gave you a straightforward and easy-to-understand description of a hardware & playtesting beta, explained why a benchmarking program would not be sufficient for testing, identified that, as trolls usually do, you would toss out some BS about being a beta testing expert, and described the agonizingly flawed reasoning path that you and other DF trolls are clearly following.
The sum total of what you could give me: "I've been in more closed betas than times you've had breakfast". Claiming that you've been in over ten thousand CBs doesn't exactly scream credibility.
There's really nowhere else to go. It would be like arguing with a cow at this point--it clearly wouldn't get it, and I'd be wasting my time.
In the future, once we find out that yes, as logic would predict, the hardware test involves a GEE WHIZ REAL GAME CLIENT you'll come up with more nonsense about the next phase of beta.
Until then, unless you have something intelligent, experienced and thoughful to say about betas & software development...try as hard as you can to not embarass yourself further.
Still attacking the poster instead of the point I see. The cold hard fact of the matter is that you haven't posted anything about darkfalls beta test. you have described one routine of which you have absolutely no evidence at all adventurine is actually using, in fact the cold harsh reality is that you know nothing about the Darkfall beta. You probably realised this are you then continued to attack me instead of the points I made, this is what is called a troll.
I can destroy your entire agument right now:
Show me EVIDENCE that Darkfall is indeed testing the way you say it will, and show me exactly what part of hardware Adventurine is testing, and what kind of testing client they will use. Do they just need to know what specs the game will run on? Don't need anything else but a benchmark for that. thats just one example of what they COULD be doing.
The problem with you is that you're acting like Adventurine has given us a whole list of information about their test. They haven't, all they have said is "There will be a hardware test, no playtesting". Thats it.
But please, keep attacking me some more like a little child would do. Don't worry you'll have plenty of time, you won't be playing Darkfall any time soon.
Why did you type all that? Seriously? You didn't back up your argument AT ALL. In your previous post you at least TRIED to back up the argument, the argument was flawed but at least you tried. Now you're just trying to grasp at flaws.
Personally, I think Darkfall will eventually release. People will then realise that the game is not even half of what its promised to be and then continue to flame it on the forums for months. thats exactly the reason why minimal effort is done to actually show off the game. There have been how many actual gameplay footage videos release? 1 or 2? all looked like they were developed with realmcrafter.
You want to talk logic? here is logic. It took Blizzard 4 ~ 5 years, hundreds of developers and millions of dollars get WoW where it was at launch, a world that can be populated by about 2k people at a time. Adventurine has only a few developers and barely any funds yet promises a world large enough to populate at least ten thousand players, hundreds of skills and prestige classes and lots of other stuff that other similar games such as Dark & Light, Irth and Mourning have promised. All those launched, turned out to be only half of what was promised and eventually crashed and burned, and I don't see ANY reason why darkfall will be any different.
the cold hard fact is that you need years of dedicated, a big team and a good amount of funds to create such an ambitious mmorpg, and Adventurine only has the dedication.
Oh, so the innovation process no longer exists? A few people with a new way of doing things must fail?
It does not require a huge team to make a game. It just requires more time. As to funds, there are ways around that. A smaller team at a lower pay grade will do wonders for minimizing costs. Also, there are loans and other such techniques that allow small companies to compete.
Also, STOP taking advantage of the NDA and saying that there is no evidence. For one, the number of people on the df forums dropped by half between the start of the beta and the announcement that it had started. Untill the NDA is removed that is all you are going to get.
I am a skeptical supporter of DF. I am not a fanboi nor a troll. I seek the truth in every discussion, and I am truly sorry if I mistakenly state a fallacy.
Why did you type all that? Seriously? You didn't back up your argument AT ALL. In your previous post you at least TRIED to back up the argument, the argument was flawed but at least you tried. Now you're just trying to grasp at flaws.
Personally, I think Darkfall will eventually release. People will then realise that the game is not even half of what its promised to be and then continue to flame it on the forums for months. thats exactly the reason why minimal effort is done to actually show off the game. There have been how many actual gameplay footage videos release? 1 or 2? all looked like they were developed with realmcrafter.
You want to talk logic? here is logic. It took Blizzard 4 ~ 5 years, hundreds of developers and millions of dollars get WoW where it was at launch, a world that can be populated by about 2k people at a time. Adventurine has only a few developers and barely any funds yet promises a world large enough to populate at least ten thousand players, hundreds of skills and prestige classes and lots of other stuff that other similar games such as Dark & Light, Irth and Mourning have promised. All those launched, turned out to be only half of what was promised and eventually crashed and burned, and I don't see ANY reason why darkfall will be any different.
the cold hard fact is that you need years of dedicated, a big team and a good amount of funds to create such an ambitious mmorpg, and Adventurine only has the dedication.
Oh, so the innovation process no longer exists? A few people with a new way of doing things must fail?
It does not require a huge team to make a game. It just requires more time. As to funds, there are ways around that. A smaller team at a lower pay grade will do wonders for minimizing costs. Also, there are loans and other such techniques that allow small companies to compete.
Yes it DOES require a huge team to create a project as big as an MMORPG. You have to create content that basicly lasts for years and preferably forever. You can NOT create content worth of years with just a handful of people in a couple of years, its impossible. if it was possible, then Blizzard and NCsoft (just to name a few) wouldn't hire such big teams in the first place.
Yes it DOES require a huge team to create a project as big as an MMORPG. You have to create content that basicly lasts for years and preferably forever. You can NOT create content worth of years with just a handful of people in a couple of years, its impossible. if it was possible, then Blizzard and NCsoft (just to name a few) wouldn't hire such big teams in the first place.
Not when you are creating content that is independant of lvls for a pvp focused game. Also, the monsters are not strewn everywhere in spesific spawn locations with specific numbers. This is actually easier to code then the way most MMOs handle monster spawns.
I am a skeptical supporter of DF. I am not a fanboi nor a troll. I seek the truth in every discussion, and I am truly sorry if I mistakenly state a fallacy.
Yes it DOES require a huge team to create a project as big as an MMORPG. You have to create content that basicly lasts for years and preferably forever. You can NOT create content worth of years with just a handful of people in a couple of years, its impossible. if it was possible, then Blizzard and NCsoft (just to name a few) wouldn't hire such big teams in the first place.
Not when you are creating content that is independant of lvls for a pvp focused game. Also, the monsters are not strewn everywhere in spesific spawn locations with specific numbers. This is actually easier to code then the way most MMOs handle monster spawns.
According to the website, the game has hundreds of different skills. Because this leaves endless possibilities, this actually takes even MORE work as its even harder to balance something like that. From what I understand the spawns will be dynamic which requires aw hole lot of balancing.
Then ofcourse there is the world which is apparently large enough to support 10k players at least. This is impossible to do with a small team unless its just flat land or randomly generated content because the world required for that would have to be huge. If randomly generated sounds familar to you then you have probably experienced Dark & light which promised the exact same thing.
According to the website, the game has hundreds of different skills. Because this leaves endless possibilities, this actually takes even MORE work as its even harder to balance something like that. From what I understand the spawns will be dynamic which requires aw hole lot of balancing.
Then ofcourse there is the world which is apparently large enough to support 10k players at least. This is impossible to do with a small team unless its just flat land or randomly generated content because the world required for that would have to be huge. If randomly generated sounds familar to you then you have probably experienced Dark & light which promised the exact same thing.
Yes the game has hundreds of skills. No they do not need to balance much beyond the truly overpowered because the skills are not part of a class system. In one of the developer journals they discuss the fact that dynamic spawns are, in fact, easier to program. Why would dynamic spawns require more balancing then static? They are not bound by having to make monsters killable by all players of x lvl but easily killing all players of y lvl.
Why would the land be impossible to hand craft on this scale? It just takes more time... time gained from the lack of the class/instance/static spawn time sinks.
I am a skeptical supporter of DF. I am not a fanboi nor a troll. I seek the truth in every discussion, and I am truly sorry if I mistakenly state a fallacy.
Still attacking the poster instead of the point I see. The cold hard fact of the matter is that you haven't posted anything about darkfalls beta test. you have described one routine of which you have absolutely no evidence at all adventurine is actually using, in fact the cold harsh reality is that you know nothing about the Darkfall beta. You probably realised this are you then continued to attack me instead of the points I made, this is what is called a troll.
I can destroy your entire agument right now: Show me EVIDENCE that Darkfall is indeed testing the way you say it will, and show me exactly what part of hardware Adventurine is testing, and what kind of testing client they will use. But please, keep attacking me some more like a little child would do. Don't worry you'll have plenty of time, you won't be playing Darkfall any time soon.
I'll quote again what I said, let's see if you can actually respond to it this time:
There's really nothing left to argue. I gave you a straightforward and easy-to-understand description of a hardware & playtesting beta, explained why a benchmarking program would not be sufficient for testing, identified that, as trolls usually do, you would toss out some BS about being a beta testing expert, and described the agonizingly flawed reasoning path that you and other DF trolls are clearly following.
The sum total of what you could give me: "I've been in more closed betas than times you've had breakfast". Claiming that you've been in over ten thousand CBs doesn't exactly scream credibility.
OK, one more time, i'll hold your hand and explain:
What part of hardware is Aventurine testing? That doesn't even make any sense. I'm going to assume that you are trying, but unable to phrase the question properly as "What kind of hardware is Aventurine testing?"
Do you REALLY need to ask this? What kind of hardware would a developer want to test in a closed beta? What kind of hardware in YOUR COMPUTER is most responsible for gaming performance, or the source of most engine-related bugs? I guarantee you 80% of the people reading this can answer that in about 2 seconds. We'll leave it open to see if it dawns on you any time soon.
In fact, the question itself is faulty: Aventurine wants to test AS MUCH AS THEY POSSIBLY CAN, as many configurations on as many computers as possible. A beta is about MASS PARTICIPATION. Even if they were (illogically) trying to test one kind of configuration, they could probably produce it in their office. They are after the near-infinite number of possible hardware & software combinations in the market. Asking for "kind" is the least relevant or reasonable thing to be asking. That you are stuck on this means that you additionally know very little about computer themselves, which further indicates that you are way, way, WAY out of your league here.
Show me EVIDENCE that Darkfall is indeed testing the way you say it will / and what kind of testing client they will use. Again, for somebody that has been, as you claim, in so many betas (over 10,000! Credible!), you seem to draw a blank on what an early beta really is. I will put this as simply as possible:
This is how betas are done! While it is remotely possible that Aventurine will come up with some completely bizarre and unique way to run an early CB, logic and probability dictates that they will be using a real game client, one that may have feature missing / disabled, may have stubs in place of functions, may have some geographical limitations, will have a number of gameplay-related bugs...but it is a playable game that is a recognizable near-ancestor to what will be shipped in the box when the game is released. They will not test using a benchmark, except maybe as a one-time pass for initial data collection, or to get a quick, aggregate measurement of how some significant change affects everybody (i.e., how does tweaking this shader affect the overall average FPS of players using an NVIDIA 9XXX card. But it won't reveal if that change produces a graphical artifiact every time a player goes near water with >4 dynamic lights active and uses a spell with particle effect #XXX).
I really can't come up with a more straightforward way to explain this to you. Again, its like arguing with an animal or inanimate object--it wastes the time of everybody and everything involved.
I have no doubt that once some details (remember, NDA will imit what specifics we know) emerge from CB, you will backpedal, latch onto the next phase of beta, and start crapping out BS about that too. That's OK, because that's what trolls do.
Please, feel free to reply if you can say something relevant and intelligent. Unfortunately, I'm sure you'll be compelled to do so anyway with more disorganized and stunted nonsense.
Still attacking the poster instead of the point I see. The cold hard fact of the matter is that you haven't posted anything about darkfalls beta test. you have described one routine of which you have absolutely no evidence at all adventurine is actually using, in fact the cold harsh reality is that you know nothing about the Darkfall beta. You probably realised this are you then continued to attack me instead of the points I made, this is what is called a troll.
I can destroy your entire agument right now: Show me EVIDENCE that Darkfall is indeed testing the way you say it will, and show me exactly what part of hardware Adventurine is testing, and what kind of testing client they will use. But please, keep attacking me some more like a little child would do. Don't worry you'll have plenty of time, you won't be playing Darkfall any time soon.
I have no evidence for my claims whatsoever, here is a bunch of things I made up and some insults
I took the liberty of editing your posts so people won't have to go through a wall of text.
There isn't much point in discussing with you since you bring no evidence to the table whatsoever and you just insult other people who don't buy your own assumptions.
You can keep jumping up and down as much as you want, the undeniable fact is that you have no idea how adventurine will test.
According to the website, the game has hundreds of different skills. Because this leaves endless possibilities, this actually takes even MORE work as its even harder to balance something like that. From what I understand the spawns will be dynamic which requires aw hole lot of balancing. Then ofcourse there is the world which is apparently large enough to support 10k players at least. This is impossible to do with a small team unless its just flat land or randomly generated content because the world required for that would have to be huge. If randomly generated sounds familar to you then you have probably experienced Dark & light which promised the exact same thing.
This is like a parade of bad reasoning:
1. Dynamic spawns can be handled mathematically (I am almost 100% certain you will have no idea what i'm trying to tell you here). A static spawn is just that--static--and has to be set up and balanced in advance, then examined and tweaked (many times) later. A dynamic spawn is designed to change automatically, and its easier to tweak a formula than to re-design the spawns in an entire area.
2. Large worlds / small team etc. etc. -- I'm betting you've never played EVE (one again, as you did before, you'll trot out some BS about having played it for five years and how your an expert and more...predictable). Their team is a bit larger, and the environment they are working with is different (space has no terrain, but with 5000+ systems, many having unique landmarks, DYNAMIC spawns, stations, NPC factions & traffic, etc) but the "small team can't do it" argument doesn't really fly anymore. Most game (and software) development teams are not enormous. The trick is to bring in just enough people with expertise in the necessary areas to cover all the needed aspects of development.
I took the liberty of editing your posts so people won't have to go through a wall of text. There isn't much point in discussing with you since you bring no evidence to the table whatsoever and you just insult other people who don't buy your own assumptions. You can keep jumping up and down as much as you want, the undeniable fact is that you have no idea how adventurine will test.
That's fine, i can just re-state what was said, as I said, it went over your head. The problem is, threads involve a HISTORY of posts, so really obvious BS doesn't work:
Somehow, the following equates to "I have no evidence for my claims whatsoever, here is a bunch of things I made up and some insults"
* * * * * * * *
"What part of hardware is Aventurine testing?" That doesn't even make any sense. I'm going to assume that you are trying, but unable to phrase the question properly as "What kind of hardware is Aventurine testing?"
Do you REALLY need to ask this? What kind of hardware would a developer want to test in a closed beta? What kind of hardware in YOUR COMPUTER is most responsible for gaming performance, or the source of most engine-related bugs? I guarantee you 80% of the people reading this can answer that in about 2 seconds. We'll leave it open to see if it dawns on you any time soon.
In fact, the question itself is faulty: Aventurine wants to test AS MUCH AS THEY POSSIBLY CAN, as many configurations on as many computers as possible. A beta is about MASS PARTICIPATION. Even if they were (illogically) trying to test one kind of configuration, they could probably produce it in their office. They are after the near-infinite number of possible hardware & software combinations in the market. Asking for "kind" is the least relevant or reasonable thing to be asking. That you are stuck on this means that you additionally know very little about computer themselves, which further indicates that you are way, way, WAY out of your league here.
"Show me EVIDENCE that Darkfall is indeed testing the way you say it will / and what kind of testing client they will use" Again, for somebody that has been, as you claim, in so many betas (over 10,000! Credible!), you seem to draw a blank on what an early beta really is. I will put this as simply as possible:
This is how betas are done! While it is remotely possible that Aventurine will come up with some completely bizarre and unique way to run an early CB, logic and probability dictates that they will be using a real game client, one that may have feature missing / disabled, may have stubs in place of functions, may have some geographical limitations, will have a number of gameplay-related bugs...but it is a playable game that is a recognizable near-ancestor to what will be shipped in the box when the game is released. They will not test using a benchmark, except maybe as a one-time pass for initial data collection, or to get a quick, aggregate measurement of how some significant change affects everybody (i.e., how does tweaking this shader affect the overall average FPS of players using an NVIDIA 9XXX card. But it won't reveal if that change produces a graphical artifiact every time a player goes near water with >4 dynamic lights active and uses a spell with particle effect #XXX)."
Ouch. I can just keep quoting this too, it doesn't get any clearer than this. When you can acutally ADDRESS anything I said, we can continue.
As I do not believe I have said anything insulting yet:
1. Dynamic spawns can be handled mathematically (I am almost 100% certain you will have no idea what i'm trying to tell you here). A static spawn is just that--static--and has to be set up and balanced in advance, then examined and tweaked (many times) later. A dynamic spawn is designed to change automatically, and its easier to tweak a formula than to re-design the spawns in an entire area.
2. Large worlds / small team etc. etc. -- I'm betting you've never played EVE (one again, as you did before, you'll trot out some BS about having played it for five years and how your an expert and more...predictable). Their team is a bit larger, and the environment they are working with is different (space has no terrain, but with 5000+ systems, many having unique landmarks, DYNAMIC spawns, stations, NPC factions & traffic, etc) but the "small team can't do it" argument doesn't really fly anymore. Most game (and software) development teams are not enormous. The trick is to bring in just enough people with expertise in the necessary areas to cover all the needed aspects of development.
Now: lets here these arguments
I am a skeptical supporter of DF. I am not a fanboi nor a troll. I seek the truth in every discussion, and I am truly sorry if I mistakenly state a fallacy.
The folks at Darkfall have made a small announcement about the current status of their beta test. Currently they are letting testers in based on hardware configurations so they can test how Darkfall runs on different machines.
Hello, this is a small update on our current activities: Since September the 22nd we've been running tests to make sure that Darkfall runs properly on a variety of hardware configurations. Any external people are being selected strictly by their hardware configuration and are selected and let in gradually. Absolutely no other criteria come into play other than hardware. Also, we are not playtesting. If you are selected for this hardware test you will be notified by email to the address associated with your Darkfall community forum account. Once we've concluded this phase, we will gradually allow more people in based on various other criteria associated with the testing needs. We may not announce the start of every phase. All the testing up to the open beta phase is protected by NDA.
I like that way of thinking,it gets away from the usual crap i see with testing.usually it is just a pile of BS bribing to get people interested and the players that do test 99% of them are only there to get some free playtime.
The problem i still see here is ...do i really believe there is any testing at all going on?Ya i'm a skeptic until proof is on the table.Talk is cheap and in the MMO community i have seen tons of it.The other problem i see here is ...will there be any legit testing other than just seeing if the game actually works on vista/any 64 bit platform/linux/windows pre xp or just xp.I mean does there UI work properly is movement satisfactory does the combat system work or is it a failure,so many things to look for.
I have still yet to hear anything about there staff working on this game,there is no way this late in the release state that a small 5 person staff could make any drastic changes if any at all.This leads me to believe the testing will be strictly to see if the game runs at all.Man alive it is such a HUGE chore to make a decent complete game for the MMORPG genre that they have to have some secret staff from somewhere helping them on this game.If it is just those same 5 guys,there is no way i could expect a decent game beyond a map generator/spotted mobs/a few npc's giving quests and nothing more..We will see i hope for the best of course as a small time developer competing against the giant 300+ staff developers would be beyond great for MMo's.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Aventurine has been increasing the size of their staff slowly over the past year. Also, the beta is coming in phases that will not be individually announced. Hope that clears things up Wizardry.
Edit: Also, the sudden decrease in forumfallers on-line is all the proof we have of actual testing being done, thanks to the NDA.
I am a skeptical supporter of DF. I am not a fanboi nor a troll. I seek the truth in every discussion, and I am truly sorry if I mistakenly state a fallacy.
You really have to love self anointed experts. When it comes down to it, you have no expertise and no knowledge of whatever Adventurine is doing. Since you have proven nothing, all most of us can do is assume you just like to troll for the fun of it, you certainly have not produced one verifiable fact yet. All you can do is quote euphemisms from a web site that everyone knows has consistently provided disinformation over a long period of time.
Again, it is time for Adventurine to put up or shut up, hopefully along with you no expertise experts too.
You really have to love self anointed experts. When it comes down to it, you have no expertise and no knowledge of whatever Adventurine is doing. Since you have proven nothing, all most of us can do is assume you just like to troll for the fun of it, you certainly have not produced one verifiable fact yet. All you can do is quote euphemisms from a web site that everyone knows has consistently provided disinformation over a long period of time. Again, it is time for Adventurine to put up or shut up, hopefully along with you no expertise experts too.
Don't really have to be an expert to say "well, this is how betas are generally done, so it its 99% likely that Aventurine is going to do the same thing".
Not sure why that is so hard to understand. Then again, DF trolls are famous for their crippled though proceses.
BTW, you need to review what a euphemism is. Definition from wikipedia: "A euphemism is a substitution of an agreeable or less offensive expression in place of one that may offend or suggest something unpleasant to the listener."
So, saying "All you can do is quote euphemisms from a web site that everyone knows has consistently provided disinformation over a long period of time." is completely nonsensical. While I understand the temptation of using big words to sound smart, please make sure the ones you choose actually make sense in the context you use them in, otherwise it really just backfires.
Oh I have been in plenty of closed betas, probably more times than you had breakfest,
I can guarantee for sure you've played in more closed betas than everyone else has had "breakfest." But breakfast, well, that's another story. Considering I for one have lived 28 years and had breakfast every day for the last 25 of them, I think you'd be hard pressed to have played in over 8000 closed betas. But, you were talking about "breakfest" right? Silly me.
Still attacking the poster instead of the point I see. The cold hard fact of the matter is that you haven't posted anything about darkfalls beta test. you have described one routine of which you have absolutely no evidence at all adventurine is actually using, in fact the cold harsh reality is that you know nothing about the Darkfall beta. You probably realised this are you then continued to attack me instead of the points I made, this is what is called a troll.
I can destroy your entire agument right now: Show me EVIDENCE that Darkfall is indeed testing the way you say it will, and show me exactly what part of hardware Adventurine is testing, and what kind of testing client they will use. But please, keep attacking me some more like a little child would do. Don't worry you'll have plenty of time, you won't be playing Darkfall any time soon.
I have no evidence for my claims whatsoever, here is a bunch of things I made up and some insults
I took the liberty of editing your posts so people won't have to go through a wall of text.
There isn't much point in discussing with you since you bring no evidence to the table whatsoever and you just insult other people who don't buy your own assumptions.
You can keep jumping up and down as much as you want, the undeniable fact is that you have no idea how adventurine will test.
this is what you guys resort too when your wrong and you know it
Oh I have been in plenty of closed betas, probably more times than you had breakfest,
I can guarantee for sure you've played in more closed betas than everyone else has had "breakfest." But breakfast, well, that's another story. Considering I for one have lived 28 years and had breakfast every day for the last 25 of them, I think you'd be hard pressed to have played in over 8000 closed betas. But, you were talking about "breakfest" right? Silly me.
Oh I have been in plenty of closed betas, probably more times than you had breakfest,
I can guarantee for sure you've played in more closed betas than everyone else has had "breakfest." But breakfast, well, that's another story. Considering I for one have lived 28 years and had breakfast every day for the last 25 of them, I think you'd be hard pressed to have played in over 8000 closed betas. But, you were talking about "breakfest" right? Silly me.
honesty goes a long way, as does a history of honesty. the opposite is even more true -untruths and lies aren't soon forgotten.
so all the forum-angst and nerd-rage aside... if the fanbois wouldn't start and keep on with "oh you guys are vaporware trolls" because of one video released in about a decade; then, most of the anti-DF threads going on, wouldn't even happen.
it's a very "meh" video, at best. the hardware testing thing, with no playtesting, is definitely an alpha testing thing. i mean, going from nothing to something in 7+ years, it IS something; but that's all it is... just another 'something' in a long line of somethings.
once the game is on shelves and up and running and people can play it... then get excited and nerd-fanboi-rage over it.
until then -- it's never "our game vs your game", as everyone can buy whatever game they so choose. unless you are actively involved in the creation and maintenance of a game, it is NOT your game, all you CAN do is cheer from the sidelines.
and we all know that we go to a game to watch that loud fan in the stadium blah blah blahing, instead of watching the game itself. right?
keep yourself in context...
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Yay!..well i for one see this as a great step forward. ANd together with many on this forum will celebrate. What I dont understand is all of the negativity.....If I wasnt interested in a game there is NO WAY I would be on its forums....life is way too short for that crap.
Anyway....keep the good news coming DF...there are many of us watching and waiting with bated breath
honesty goes a long way, as does a history of honesty. the opposite is even more true -untruths and lies aren't soon forgotten.
so all the forum-angst and nerd-rage aside... if the fanbois wouldn't start and keep on with "oh you guys are vaporware trolls" because of one video released in about a decade; then, most of the anti-DF threads going on, wouldn't even happen.
it's a very "meh" video, at best. the hardware testing thing, with no playtesting, is definitely an alpha testing thing. i mean, going from nothing to something in 7+ years, it IS something; but that's all it is... just another 'something' in a long line of somethings. once the game is on shelves and up and running and people can play it... then get excited and nerd-fanboi-rage over it.
until then -- it's never "our game vs your game", as everyone can buy whatever game they so choose. unless you are actively involved in the creation and maintenance of a game, it is NOT your game, all you CAN do is cheer from the sidelines. and we all know that we go to a game to watch that loud fan in the stadium blah blah blahing, instead of watching the game itself. right? keep yourself in context...
Uh, yeah, this thread is a news thread about the beginning of darkfall beta, not the video.
Definitions of Alpha Testing on the Web:
• Simulated or actual operational testing at an in-house site not otherwise involved with the software developers.
www.system-testing.ch/glossary_swt.htm
• Testing conducted internally by the manufacturer, alpha testing takes a new product through a protocol of testing procedures to verify product functionality and capability.
www.wrightcolor.com/a.htm
• is simulated or actual operational testing by potential users/customers or an independent test team at the developers' site. ...
• This is a process that can be used in the rendering pipeline to decide whether a pixel is declared visible, and therefore written to the frame buffer (or any other target surface).
www.yougamers.com/dictionary/1/
• User testing of a completed information system using simulated data.
www.cbu.edu/~lschmitt/I351/glossary.htm
• In software development, testing is usually required before release to the general public. This phase of development is known as the alpha phase. Testing during this phase is known as alpha testing. In the first phase of alpha testing, developers test the software using white box techniques. ...
• Testing of a software product or system conducted at the developer’s site by the end user.
qatraining.org/manual_Testing.aspx
• The first stage testing of new products or new additions to existing products. Alpha testing is done under the control of the developer; whereas, Beta Testing can sometimes be done with a real application of the product at a customer site in exchange for a benefit to that customer.
www.activecall.com/jargon.htm
• A process where, as an application approaches full functionality, it is often made available to a carefully selected subset of sophisticated users ...
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/alpha testing
alpha testing - Testing of software at the developer's site by the customer. The stage before beta testing.
Note that the third definition is actually discussing beta testing (the end of the link)
Definitions of Beta Testing on the Web:
• Testing of a rerelease of a software product conducted by customers.
www.aptest.com/glossary.html
• Operational testing at a site not otherwise involved with the software developers.
www.gerrardconsulting.com/bs7925_1/terms.html
• comes after alpha testing. Versions of the software, known as beta versions, are released to a limited audience outside of the programming team. ...
www.goldthinks.com/en/wiki/Beta_testing.html
• Testing conducted at one or more customer sites by the end-user of a software product or system . This is usually a "friendly" user and the testing is conducted before the system is made generally available.
• Operational testing by potential and/or existing users/customers at an external
swarna.blogster.com/important_concepts_software
• The second-stage test-version of a newly developed piece of hardware and/or software, which is distributed free to a limited sample of users so that they can subject it to daily use and report any problems to the manufacturer. ...
www.wrightcolor.com/b.htm
• User testing of a completed information system using real data in the real user environment.
www.cbu.edu/~lschmitt/I351/glossary.htm
• is a stage in the design and development process of computer software and hardware that uses people outside a company, called “beta testers,” to be sure that products function properly for typical end-users outside the firm (Berkshire Encyclopedia of Human-Computer Interaction, V.2, p. 828).
• The second stage of new product testing. (DLS does Alpha Testing, TST does Beta Testing.)
www.activecall.com/jargon.htm
beta testing - Testing a pre-release (potentially unreliable) version of a piece of software by making it available to selected users. This term derives from early 1960s terminology for product cycle checkpoints, first used at IBM but later standard throughout the industry.
"Alpha test" was the unit, module, or component test phase; "Beta Test" was initial system test. These themselves came from earlier A- and B-tests for hardware. The A-test was a feasibility and manufacturability evaluation done before any commitment to design and development. The B-test was a demonstration that the engineering model functioned as specified. The C-test (corresponding to today's beta) was the B-test performed on early samples of the production design.
An item "in beta test" is thus mostly working but still under test. In the Real World, systems (hardware or software) often go through two stages of release testing: Alpha (in-house) and Beta (out-house?). Beta releases are generally made available to a small number of lucky (or unlucky), trusted customers.
So you still want to claim this is an alpha test. Well I hate to break it to you but the definitions don't match up.
Finally: who ever said this thread was our game v. your game. This thread is about the df beta. No other game has been a major part of this thread.
I am a skeptical supporter of DF. I am not a fanboi nor a troll. I seek the truth in every discussion, and I am truly sorry if I mistakenly state a fallacy.
So you still want to claim this is an alpha test. Well I hate to break it to you but the definitions don't match up. Finally: who ever said this thread was our game v. your game. This thread is about the df beta. No other game has been a major part of this thread.
See, you just did something that is totally inapplicable here with these people--you posted factual information to back up an argument.
This causes a short-circuit in the DF troll's brain. Often resulting in a flurry of ill-conceived, poorly thought out and disasteroulsly organized posts. Sometimes causing explosive nerd rage leading to grossly impossible claims, such as being in thousands of betas.
Comments
"But I'm sure you'll shoot back with some quickly made-up BS about being a programmer, or being a closed beta tester for a ton of games."
Called it!
Since you couldn't really respond intelligently to any of the detailed information i wrote about betas, hardware tests, etc, I'll take the above (and the other 2 paragraphs not worth of mention) as "I have nothing, I desparately need to just stop talking but I can't control myself enough to actually do it".
Ofcourse you called it, it was an extremely poor attempt at trying to attack my credibility.You first claim that I have never been involved in beta and then quickly add "But i'm sure you'll say you have" to take away my chance to argue that I do, in fact, have been part of betas. It's the lowest form of debate. Thats like me walking up to a microsoft employee and say to him "Well you'll come up with some quickly made-up bs about being a software developer" and then when he answers "Well I happen to be a software developer" I yell "OMGZ, CALLED IT!!!11".
detailed information? Sorry, but what detailed information? All you did was mention a procedure that i'm sure is being used by some software developer, but the cold, hard, undeniable fact is that you have no idea how Adventurine is going to test their hardware. You don't even know what kind of hardware they are testing, heck, you don't even know what beta or alpha stage they are in.
Oh god he's still talking!
Thanks for the Sunday morning entertainment...there's nothing like watching some poor ignorant fool make an ass of himself over a video game. Making statements like "I've been in many closed betas, more times than you've had breakfast" are a 100% BS indicator. That's fine, though, what really counts for you is whats in your own head, and I'm sure there you've been in them all. *head pat*
I don't know what kind of hardware they're testing? Let's think about that long and hard for a moment. Although i'm sure you're still drawing a blank there, I think other readers will have no problem understanding what kind of hardware they might be looking at.
Overall...a few months ago, alot of the OMG DF LOLOLOL arguments had a decent amount of merit. But here's what's happened in the past few months, and the DF troll responses to each:
Aventurine announces upcoming video. Trolls: haha video won't happen!
Video comes out: LOL! Just a video, the game is vaporware still!
Beta is announced: OMG WTF, no way the beta will ever actually happen!
-> Initial round of beta begins: LOLZ its not a real beta! *(pay attention here)
...fast forward into the near future:
Full closed beta begins: Uh...um sure uh GODZ N HEROES DIED IN CB HAHA
Open beta begins and ends: Er....
Release date announced, subscription plans & launch events revealed: Um...uh...
DF released: HAHA ITS ALL A CONSPIRACY, EVERYBODY PLAYING DF IS LYING, THERE IS NO GAME, ITS JUST A TRICK, LOLOLOLOLololol.....
---
I think we see the logic operating here. Its an unfortunate fact that many people aren't mature enough to simply stop speaking when they have no ground to stand on and skulk away. Actually, for the rest of us, it really is priceless, because we get to not only watch people eat their words every few weeks, but we get too laugh as they immediately set themselves up again.
Why did you type all that? Seriously? You didn't back up your argument AT ALL. In your previous post you at least TRIED to back up the argument, the argument was flawed but at least you tried. Now you're just trying to grasp at flaws.
Personally, I think Darkfall will eventually release. People will then realise that the game is not even half of what its promised to be and then continue to flame it on the forums for months. thats exactly the reason why minimal effort is done to actually show off the game. There have been how many actual gameplay footage videos release? 1 or 2? all looked like they were developed with realmcrafter.
You want to talk logic? here is logic. It took Blizzard 4 ~ 5 years, hundreds of developers and millions of dollars get WoW where it was at launch, a world that can be populated by about 2k people at a time. Adventurine has only a few developers and barely any funds yet promises a world large enough to populate at least ten thousand players, hundreds of skills and prestige classes and lots of other stuff that other similar games such as Dark & Light, Irth and Mourning have promised. All those launched, turned out to be only half of what was promised and eventually crashed and burned, and I don't see ANY reason why darkfall will be any different.
the cold hard fact is that you need years of dedicated, a big team and a good amount of funds to create such an ambitious mmorpg, and Adventurine only has the dedication.
I can see you're winding down here (which is a good thing, trust me, since you've added nothing useful here, and most of us are dumber for having been exposed to you). And thanks for following exactly the reasoning path I laid out (LOLZ GAME VIDEO! LOLZ NOT A REAL BETA!).
There's really nothing left to argue. I gave you a straightforward and easy-to-understand description of a hardware & playtesting beta, explained why a benchmarking program would not be sufficient for testing, identified that, as trolls usually do, you would toss out some BS about being a beta testing expert, and described the agonizingly flawed reasoning path that you and other DF trolls are clearly following.
The sum total of what you could give me: "I've been in more closed betas than times you've had breakfast". Claiming that you've been in over ten thousand CBs doesn't exactly scream credibility.
There's really nowhere else to go. It would be like arguing with a cow at this point--it clearly wouldn't get it, and I'd be wasting my time.
In the future, once we find out that yes, as logic would predict, the hardware test involves a GEE WHIZ REAL GAME CLIENT you'll come up with more nonsense about the next phase of beta.
Until then, unless you have something intelligent, experienced and thoughful to say about betas & software development...try as hard as you can to not embarass yourself further.
I can see you're winding down here (which is a good thing, trust me, since you've added nothing useful here, and most of us are dumber for having been exposed to you). And thanks for following exactly the reasoning path I laid out (LOLZ GAME VIDEO! LOLZ NOT A REAL BETA!).
There's really nothing left to argue. I gave you a straightforward and easy-to-understand description of a hardware & playtesting beta, explained why a benchmarking program would not be sufficient for testing, identified that, as trolls usually do, you would toss out some BS about being a beta testing expert, and described the agonizingly flawed reasoning path that you and other DF trolls are clearly following.
The sum total of what you could give me: "I've been in more closed betas than times you've had breakfast". Claiming that you've been in over ten thousand CBs doesn't exactly scream credibility.
There's really nowhere else to go. It would be like arguing with a cow at this point--it clearly wouldn't get it, and I'd be wasting my time.
In the future, once we find out that yes, as logic would predict, the hardware test involves a GEE WHIZ REAL GAME CLIENT you'll come up with more nonsense about the next phase of beta.
Until then, unless you have something intelligent, experienced and thoughful to say about betas & software development...try as hard as you can to not embarass yourself further.
Still attacking the poster instead of the point I see. The cold hard fact of the matter is that you haven't posted anything about darkfalls beta test. you have described one routine of which you have absolutely no evidence at all adventurine is actually using, in fact the cold harsh reality is that you know nothing about the Darkfall beta. You probably realised this are you then continued to attack me instead of the points I made, this is what is called a troll.
I can destroy your entire agument right now:
Show me EVIDENCE that Darkfall is indeed testing the way you say it will, and show me exactly what part of hardware Adventurine is testing, and what kind of testing client they will use. Do they just need to know what specs the game will run on? Don't need anything else but a benchmark for that. thats just one example of what they COULD be doing.
The problem with you is that you're acting like Adventurine has given us a whole list of information about their test. They haven't, all they have said is "There will be a hardware test, no playtesting". Thats it.
But please, keep attacking me some more like a little child would do. Don't worry you'll have plenty of time, you won't be playing Darkfall any time soon.
Why did you type all that? Seriously? You didn't back up your argument AT ALL. In your previous post you at least TRIED to back up the argument, the argument was flawed but at least you tried. Now you're just trying to grasp at flaws.
Personally, I think Darkfall will eventually release. People will then realise that the game is not even half of what its promised to be and then continue to flame it on the forums for months. thats exactly the reason why minimal effort is done to actually show off the game. There have been how many actual gameplay footage videos release? 1 or 2? all looked like they were developed with realmcrafter.
You want to talk logic? here is logic. It took Blizzard 4 ~ 5 years, hundreds of developers and millions of dollars get WoW where it was at launch, a world that can be populated by about 2k people at a time. Adventurine has only a few developers and barely any funds yet promises a world large enough to populate at least ten thousand players, hundreds of skills and prestige classes and lots of other stuff that other similar games such as Dark & Light, Irth and Mourning have promised. All those launched, turned out to be only half of what was promised and eventually crashed and burned, and I don't see ANY reason why darkfall will be any different.
the cold hard fact is that you need years of dedicated, a big team and a good amount of funds to create such an ambitious mmorpg, and Adventurine only has the dedication.
Oh, so the innovation process no longer exists? A few people with a new way of doing things must fail?
It does not require a huge team to make a game. It just requires more time. As to funds, there are ways around that. A smaller team at a lower pay grade will do wonders for minimizing costs. Also, there are loans and other such techniques that allow small companies to compete.
Also, STOP taking advantage of the NDA and saying that there is no evidence. For one, the number of people on the df forums dropped by half between the start of the beta and the announcement that it had started. Untill the NDA is removed that is all you are going to get.
I am a skeptical supporter of DF. I am not a fanboi nor a troll. I seek the truth in every discussion, and I am truly sorry if I mistakenly state a fallacy.
Why did you type all that? Seriously? You didn't back up your argument AT ALL. In your previous post you at least TRIED to back up the argument, the argument was flawed but at least you tried. Now you're just trying to grasp at flaws.
Personally, I think Darkfall will eventually release. People will then realise that the game is not even half of what its promised to be and then continue to flame it on the forums for months. thats exactly the reason why minimal effort is done to actually show off the game. There have been how many actual gameplay footage videos release? 1 or 2? all looked like they were developed with realmcrafter.
You want to talk logic? here is logic. It took Blizzard 4 ~ 5 years, hundreds of developers and millions of dollars get WoW where it was at launch, a world that can be populated by about 2k people at a time. Adventurine has only a few developers and barely any funds yet promises a world large enough to populate at least ten thousand players, hundreds of skills and prestige classes and lots of other stuff that other similar games such as Dark & Light, Irth and Mourning have promised. All those launched, turned out to be only half of what was promised and eventually crashed and burned, and I don't see ANY reason why darkfall will be any different.
the cold hard fact is that you need years of dedicated, a big team and a good amount of funds to create such an ambitious mmorpg, and Adventurine only has the dedication.
Oh, so the innovation process no longer exists? A few people with a new way of doing things must fail?
It does not require a huge team to make a game. It just requires more time. As to funds, there are ways around that. A smaller team at a lower pay grade will do wonders for minimizing costs. Also, there are loans and other such techniques that allow small companies to compete.
Yes it DOES require a huge team to create a project as big as an MMORPG. You have to create content that basicly lasts for years and preferably forever. You can NOT create content worth of years with just a handful of people in a couple of years, its impossible. if it was possible, then Blizzard and NCsoft (just to name a few) wouldn't hire such big teams in the first place.
Yes it DOES require a huge team to create a project as big as an MMORPG. You have to create content that basicly lasts for years and preferably forever. You can NOT create content worth of years with just a handful of people in a couple of years, its impossible. if it was possible, then Blizzard and NCsoft (just to name a few) wouldn't hire such big teams in the first place.
Not when you are creating content that is independant of lvls for a pvp focused game. Also, the monsters are not strewn everywhere in spesific spawn locations with specific numbers. This is actually easier to code then the way most MMOs handle monster spawns.
I am a skeptical supporter of DF. I am not a fanboi nor a troll. I seek the truth in every discussion, and I am truly sorry if I mistakenly state a fallacy.
Yes it DOES require a huge team to create a project as big as an MMORPG. You have to create content that basicly lasts for years and preferably forever. You can NOT create content worth of years with just a handful of people in a couple of years, its impossible. if it was possible, then Blizzard and NCsoft (just to name a few) wouldn't hire such big teams in the first place.
Not when you are creating content that is independant of lvls for a pvp focused game. Also, the monsters are not strewn everywhere in spesific spawn locations with specific numbers. This is actually easier to code then the way most MMOs handle monster spawns.
According to the website, the game has hundreds of different skills. Because this leaves endless possibilities, this actually takes even MORE work as its even harder to balance something like that. From what I understand the spawns will be dynamic which requires aw hole lot of balancing.
Then ofcourse there is the world which is apparently large enough to support 10k players at least. This is impossible to do with a small team unless its just flat land or randomly generated content because the world required for that would have to be huge. If randomly generated sounds familar to you then you have probably experienced Dark & light which promised the exact same thing.
According to the website, the game has hundreds of different skills. Because this leaves endless possibilities, this actually takes even MORE work as its even harder to balance something like that. From what I understand the spawns will be dynamic which requires aw hole lot of balancing.
Then ofcourse there is the world which is apparently large enough to support 10k players at least. This is impossible to do with a small team unless its just flat land or randomly generated content because the world required for that would have to be huge. If randomly generated sounds familar to you then you have probably experienced Dark & light which promised the exact same thing.
Yes the game has hundreds of skills. No they do not need to balance much beyond the truly overpowered because the skills are not part of a class system. In one of the developer journals they discuss the fact that dynamic spawns are, in fact, easier to program. Why would dynamic spawns require more balancing then static? They are not bound by having to make monsters killable by all players of x lvl but easily killing all players of y lvl.
Why would the land be impossible to hand craft on this scale? It just takes more time... time gained from the lack of the class/instance/static spawn time sinks.
I am a skeptical supporter of DF. I am not a fanboi nor a troll. I seek the truth in every discussion, and I am truly sorry if I mistakenly state a fallacy.
I'll quote again what I said, let's see if you can actually respond to it this time:
There's really nothing left to argue. I gave you a straightforward and easy-to-understand description of a hardware & playtesting beta, explained why a benchmarking program would not be sufficient for testing, identified that, as trolls usually do, you would toss out some BS about being a beta testing expert, and described the agonizingly flawed reasoning path that you and other DF trolls are clearly following.
The sum total of what you could give me: "I've been in more closed betas than times you've had breakfast". Claiming that you've been in over ten thousand CBs doesn't exactly scream credibility.
OK, one more time, i'll hold your hand and explain:
What part of hardware is Aventurine testing? That doesn't even make any sense. I'm going to assume that you are trying, but unable to phrase the question properly as "What kind of hardware is Aventurine testing?"
Do you REALLY need to ask this? What kind of hardware would a developer want to test in a closed beta? What kind of hardware in YOUR COMPUTER is most responsible for gaming performance, or the source of most engine-related bugs? I guarantee you 80% of the people reading this can answer that in about 2 seconds. We'll leave it open to see if it dawns on you any time soon.
In fact, the question itself is faulty: Aventurine wants to test AS MUCH AS THEY POSSIBLY CAN, as many configurations on as many computers as possible. A beta is about MASS PARTICIPATION. Even if they were (illogically) trying to test one kind of configuration, they could probably produce it in their office. They are after the near-infinite number of possible hardware & software combinations in the market. Asking for "kind" is the least relevant or reasonable thing to be asking. That you are stuck on this means that you additionally know very little about computer themselves, which further indicates that you are way, way, WAY out of your league here.
Show me EVIDENCE that Darkfall is indeed testing the way you say it will / and what kind of testing client they will use. Again, for somebody that has been, as you claim, in so many betas (over 10,000! Credible!), you seem to draw a blank on what an early beta really is. I will put this as simply as possible:
This is how betas are done! While it is remotely possible that Aventurine will come up with some completely bizarre and unique way to run an early CB, logic and probability dictates that they will be using a real game client, one that may have feature missing / disabled, may have stubs in place of functions, may have some geographical limitations, will have a number of gameplay-related bugs...but it is a playable game that is a recognizable near-ancestor to what will be shipped in the box when the game is released. They will not test using a benchmark, except maybe as a one-time pass for initial data collection, or to get a quick, aggregate measurement of how some significant change affects everybody (i.e., how does tweaking this shader affect the overall average FPS of players using an NVIDIA 9XXX card. But it won't reveal if that change produces a graphical artifiact every time a player goes near water with >4 dynamic lights active and uses a spell with particle effect #XXX).
I really can't come up with a more straightforward way to explain this to you. Again, its like arguing with an animal or inanimate object--it wastes the time of everybody and everything involved.
I have no doubt that once some details (remember, NDA will imit what specifics we know) emerge from CB, you will backpedal, latch onto the next phase of beta, and start crapping out BS about that too. That's OK, because that's what trolls do.
Please, feel free to reply if you can say something relevant and intelligent. Unfortunately, I'm sure you'll be compelled to do so anyway with more disorganized and stunted nonsense.
I have no evidence for my claims whatsoever, here is a bunch of things I made up and some insults
I took the liberty of editing your posts so people won't have to go through a wall of text.
There isn't much point in discussing with you since you bring no evidence to the table whatsoever and you just insult other people who don't buy your own assumptions.
You can keep jumping up and down as much as you want, the undeniable fact is that you have no idea how adventurine will test.
This is like a parade of bad reasoning:
1. Dynamic spawns can be handled mathematically (I am almost 100% certain you will have no idea what i'm trying to tell you here). A static spawn is just that--static--and has to be set up and balanced in advance, then examined and tweaked (many times) later. A dynamic spawn is designed to change automatically, and its easier to tweak a formula than to re-design the spawns in an entire area.
2. Large worlds / small team etc. etc. -- I'm betting you've never played EVE (one again, as you did before, you'll trot out some BS about having played it for five years and how your an expert and more...predictable). Their team is a bit larger, and the environment they are working with is different (space has no terrain, but with 5000+ systems, many having unique landmarks, DYNAMIC spawns, stations, NPC factions & traffic, etc) but the "small team can't do it" argument doesn't really fly anymore. Most game (and software) development teams are not enormous. The trick is to bring in just enough people with expertise in the necessary areas to cover all the needed aspects of development.
That's fine, i can just re-state what was said, as I said, it went over your head. The problem is, threads involve a HISTORY of posts, so really obvious BS doesn't work:
Somehow, the following equates to "I have no evidence for my claims whatsoever, here is a bunch of things I made up and some insults"
* * * * * * * *
"What part of hardware is Aventurine testing?" That doesn't even make any sense. I'm going to assume that you are trying, but unable to phrase the question properly as "What kind of hardware is Aventurine testing?"
Do you REALLY need to ask this? What kind of hardware would a developer want to test in a closed beta? What kind of hardware in YOUR COMPUTER is most responsible for gaming performance, or the source of most engine-related bugs? I guarantee you 80% of the people reading this can answer that in about 2 seconds. We'll leave it open to see if it dawns on you any time soon.
In fact, the question itself is faulty: Aventurine wants to test AS MUCH AS THEY POSSIBLY CAN, as many configurations on as many computers as possible. A beta is about MASS PARTICIPATION. Even if they were (illogically) trying to test one kind of configuration, they could probably produce it in their office. They are after the near-infinite number of possible hardware & software combinations in the market. Asking for "kind" is the least relevant or reasonable thing to be asking. That you are stuck on this means that you additionally know very little about computer themselves, which further indicates that you are way, way, WAY out of your league here.
"Show me EVIDENCE that Darkfall is indeed testing the way you say it will / and what kind of testing client they will use" Again, for somebody that has been, as you claim, in so many betas (over 10,000! Credible!), you seem to draw a blank on what an early beta really is. I will put this as simply as possible:
This is how betas are done! While it is remotely possible that Aventurine will come up with some completely bizarre and unique way to run an early CB, logic and probability dictates that they will be using a real game client, one that may have feature missing / disabled, may have stubs in place of functions, may have some geographical limitations, will have a number of gameplay-related bugs...but it is a playable game that is a recognizable near-ancestor to what will be shipped in the box when the game is released. They will not test using a benchmark, except maybe as a one-time pass for initial data collection, or to get a quick, aggregate measurement of how some significant change affects everybody (i.e., how does tweaking this shader affect the overall average FPS of players using an NVIDIA 9XXX card. But it won't reveal if that change produces a graphical artifiact every time a player goes near water with >4 dynamic lights active and uses a spell with particle effect #XXX)."
Ouch. I can just keep quoting this too, it doesn't get any clearer than this. When you can acutally ADDRESS anything I said, we can continue.
As I do not believe I have said anything insulting yet:
1. Dynamic spawns can be handled mathematically (I am almost 100% certain you will have no idea what i'm trying to tell you here). A static spawn is just that--static--and has to be set up and balanced in advance, then examined and tweaked (many times) later. A dynamic spawn is designed to change automatically, and its easier to tweak a formula than to re-design the spawns in an entire area.
2. Large worlds / small team etc. etc. -- I'm betting you've never played EVE (one again, as you did before, you'll trot out some BS about having played it for five years and how your an expert and more...predictable). Their team is a bit larger, and the environment they are working with is different (space has no terrain, but with 5000+ systems, many having unique landmarks, DYNAMIC spawns, stations, NPC factions & traffic, etc) but the "small team can't do it" argument doesn't really fly anymore. Most game (and software) development teams are not enormous. The trick is to bring in just enough people with expertise in the necessary areas to cover all the needed aspects of development.
Now: lets here these arguments
I am a skeptical supporter of DF. I am not a fanboi nor a troll. I seek the truth in every discussion, and I am truly sorry if I mistakenly state a fallacy.
Read more here.
I like that way of thinking,it gets away from the usual crap i see with testing.usually it is just a pile of BS bribing to get people interested and the players that do test 99% of them are only there to get some free playtime.
The problem i still see here is ...do i really believe there is any testing at all going on?Ya i'm a skeptic until proof is on the table.Talk is cheap and in the MMO community i have seen tons of it.The other problem i see here is ...will there be any legit testing other than just seeing if the game actually works on vista/any 64 bit platform/linux/windows pre xp or just xp.I mean does there UI work properly is movement satisfactory does the combat system work or is it a failure,so many things to look for.
I have still yet to hear anything about there staff working on this game,there is no way this late in the release state that a small 5 person staff could make any drastic changes if any at all.This leads me to believe the testing will be strictly to see if the game runs at all.Man alive it is such a HUGE chore to make a decent complete game for the MMORPG genre that they have to have some secret staff from somewhere helping them on this game.If it is just those same 5 guys,there is no way i could expect a decent game beyond a map generator/spotted mobs/a few npc's giving quests and nothing more..We will see i hope for the best of course as a small time developer competing against the giant 300+ staff developers would be beyond great for MMo's.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Aventurine has been increasing the size of their staff slowly over the past year. Also, the beta is coming in phases that will not be individually announced. Hope that clears things up Wizardry.
Edit: Also, the sudden decrease in forumfallers on-line is all the proof we have of actual testing being done, thanks to the NDA.
I am a skeptical supporter of DF. I am not a fanboi nor a troll. I seek the truth in every discussion, and I am truly sorry if I mistakenly state a fallacy.
You really have to love self anointed experts. When it comes down to it, you have no expertise and no knowledge of whatever Adventurine is doing. Since you have proven nothing, all most of us can do is assume you just like to troll for the fun of it, you certainly have not produced one verifiable fact yet. All you can do is quote euphemisms from a web site that everyone knows has consistently provided disinformation over a long period of time.
Again, it is time for Adventurine to put up or shut up, hopefully along with you no expertise experts too.
Don't really have to be an expert to say "well, this is how betas are generally done, so it its 99% likely that Aventurine is going to do the same thing".
Not sure why that is so hard to understand. Then again, DF trolls are famous for their crippled though proceses.
BTW, you need to review what a euphemism is. Definition from wikipedia: "A euphemism is a substitution of an agreeable or less offensive expression in place of one that may offend or suggest something unpleasant to the listener."
So, saying "All you can do is quote euphemisms from a web site that everyone knows has consistently provided disinformation over a long period of time." is completely nonsensical. While I understand the temptation of using big words to sound smart, please make sure the ones you choose actually make sense in the context you use them in, otherwise it really just backfires.
I can guarantee for sure you've played in more closed betas than everyone else has had "breakfest." But breakfast, well, that's another story. Considering I for one have lived 28 years and had breakfast every day for the last 25 of them, I think you'd be hard pressed to have played in over 8000 closed betas. But, you were talking about "breakfest" right? Silly me.
I have no evidence for my claims whatsoever, here is a bunch of things I made up and some insults
I took the liberty of editing your posts so people won't have to go through a wall of text.
There isn't much point in discussing with you since you bring no evidence to the table whatsoever and you just insult other people who don't buy your own assumptions.
You can keep jumping up and down as much as you want, the undeniable fact is that you have no idea how adventurine will test.
this is what you guys resort too when your wrong and you know it
I can guarantee for sure you've played in more closed betas than everyone else has had "breakfest." But breakfast, well, that's another story. Considering I for one have lived 28 years and had breakfast every day for the last 25 of them, I think you'd be hard pressed to have played in over 8000 closed betas. But, you were talking about "breakfest" right? Silly me.
LOL good one : )
I can guarantee for sure you've played in more closed betas than everyone else has had "breakfest." But breakfast, well, that's another story. Considering I for one have lived 28 years and had breakfast every day for the last 25 of them, I think you'd be hard pressed to have played in over 8000 closed betas. But, you were talking about "breakfest" right? Silly me.
I have been in approximately three billion betas.
I win.
honesty goes a long way, as does a history of honesty. the opposite is even more true -untruths and lies aren't soon forgotten.
so all the forum-angst and nerd-rage aside... if the fanbois wouldn't start and keep on with "oh you guys are vaporware trolls" because of one video released in about a decade; then, most of the anti-DF threads going on, wouldn't even happen.
it's a very "meh" video, at best. the hardware testing thing, with no playtesting, is definitely an alpha testing thing. i mean, going from nothing to something in 7+ years, it IS something; but that's all it is... just another 'something' in a long line of somethings.
once the game is on shelves and up and running and people can play it... then get excited and nerd-fanboi-rage over it.
until then -- it's never "our game vs your game", as everyone can buy whatever game they so choose. unless you are actively involved in the creation and maintenance of a game, it is NOT your game, all you CAN do is cheer from the sidelines.
and we all know that we go to a game to watch that loud fan in the stadium blah blah blahing, instead of watching the game itself. right?
keep yourself in context...
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Yay!..well i for one see this as a great step forward. ANd together with many on this forum will celebrate. What I dont understand is all of the negativity.....If I wasnt interested in a game there is NO WAY I would be on its forums....life is way too short for that crap.
Anyway....keep the good news coming DF...there are many of us watching and waiting with bated breath
Uh, yeah, this thread is a news thread about the beginning of darkfall beta, not the video.
Definitions of Alpha Testing on the Web:
• Simulated or actual operational testing at an in-house site not otherwise involved with the software developers.
www.system-testing.ch/glossary_swt.htm
• Testing conducted internally by the manufacturer, alpha testing takes a new product through a protocol of testing procedures to verify product functionality and capability.
www.wrightcolor.com/a.htm
• is simulated or actual operational testing by potential users/customers or an independent test team at the developers' site. ...
www.wielkaencyklopedia.com/en/wiki/Beta_testing.html
• This is a process that can be used in the rendering pipeline to decide whether a pixel is declared visible, and therefore written to the frame buffer (or any other target surface).
www.yougamers.com/dictionary/1/
• User testing of a completed information system using simulated data.
www.cbu.edu/~lschmitt/I351/glossary.htm
• In software development, testing is usually required before release to the general public. This phase of development is known as the alpha phase. Testing during this phase is known as alpha testing. In the first phase of alpha testing, developers test the software using white box techniques. ...
www.astrainfotech.com/software-testing-glossary.html
• Testing of a software product or system conducted at the developer’s site by the end user.
qatraining.org/manual_Testing.aspx
• The first stage testing of new products or new additions to existing products. Alpha testing is done under the control of the developer; whereas, Beta Testing can sometimes be done with a real application of the product at a customer site in exchange for a benefit to that customer.
www.activecall.com/jargon.htm
• A process where, as an application approaches full functionality, it is often made available to a carefully selected subset of sophisticated users ...
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/alpha testing
alpha testing - Testing of software at the developer's site by the customer. The stage before beta testing.
http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/alpha+testing
Note that the third definition is actually discussing beta testing (the end of the link)
Definitions of Beta Testing on the Web:
• Testing of a rerelease of a software product conducted by customers.
www.aptest.com/glossary.html
• Operational testing at a site not otherwise involved with the software developers.
www.gerrardconsulting.com/bs7925_1/terms.html
• comes after alpha testing. Versions of the software, known as beta versions, are released to a limited audience outside of the programming team. ...
www.goldthinks.com/en/wiki/Beta_testing.html
• Testing conducted at one or more customer sites by the end-user of a software product or system . This is usually a "friendly" user and the testing is conducted before the system is made generally available.
www.sqablogs.com/jstrazzere/46/A+Glossary+of+Testing+Terms.html
• Operational testing by potential and/or existing users/customers at an external
swarna.blogster.com/important_concepts_software
• The second-stage test-version of a newly developed piece of hardware and/or software, which is distributed free to a limited sample of users so that they can subject it to daily use and report any problems to the manufacturer. ...
www.wrightcolor.com/b.htm
• User testing of a completed information system using real data in the real user environment.
www.cbu.edu/~lschmitt/I351/glossary.htm
• is a stage in the design and development process of computer software and hardware that uses people outside a company, called “beta testers,” to be sure that products function properly for typical end-users outside the firm (Berkshire Encyclopedia of Human-Computer Interaction, V.2, p. 828).
phoenix.goucher.edu/~jillz/cs325_hci/definitions.htm
• The second stage of new product testing. (DLS does Alpha Testing, TST does Beta Testing.)
www.activecall.com/jargon.htm
beta testing - Testing a pre-release (potentially unreliable) version of a piece of software by making it available to selected users. This term derives from early 1960s terminology for product cycle checkpoints, first used at IBM but later standard throughout the industry.
"Alpha test" was the unit, module, or component test phase; "Beta Test" was initial system test. These themselves came from earlier A- and B-tests for hardware. The A-test was a feasibility and manufacturability evaluation done before any commitment to design and development. The B-test was a demonstration that the engineering model functioned as specified. The C-test (corresponding to today's beta) was the B-test performed on early samples of the production design.
An item "in beta test" is thus mostly working but still under test. In the Real World, systems (hardware or software) often go through two stages of release testing: Alpha (in-house) and Beta (out-house?). Beta releases are generally made available to a small number of lucky (or unlucky), trusted customers.
http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/beta+testing
So you still want to claim this is an alpha test. Well I hate to break it to you but the definitions don't match up.
Finally: who ever said this thread was our game v. your game. This thread is about the df beta. No other game has been a major part of this thread.
I am a skeptical supporter of DF. I am not a fanboi nor a troll. I seek the truth in every discussion, and I am truly sorry if I mistakenly state a fallacy.
See, you just did something that is totally inapplicable here with these people--you posted factual information to back up an argument.
This causes a short-circuit in the DF troll's brain. Often resulting in a flurry of ill-conceived, poorly thought out and disasteroulsly organized posts. Sometimes causing explosive nerd rage leading to grossly impossible claims, such as being in thousands of betas.