I'm not saying its american's fault in total, but people usually get what their actions, or inaction, deserve, if people guarded jealously their rights and liberties, or at least not hold so tightly to the illusions they're sold by the elite to maintain the status quo, maybe a small group of dominant men couldn't just bleed us dry and steal the fruit of our labor and our land. Maybe if people didn't just buy into BS because its on TV or coming out of their favorie newscaster's lying mouth, we would still have our republic. Fact is now we're so divided as a nation that no force of arms we could muster would do us any good, especially when you take into account the mindless people out there that still think anything said that doesn't line up with what these despots say isa conspiracy theory or some sort of fantasy. The facts clearly speak for themselves and have for some time. Now its time to pay for not standing up sooner.
And this is the bit that I consider lazy thinking.
It's just jealousy mate. No one has been bleeding you dry and stealing the fruits of your labour.
Other peoples labours are just more fruitfull than yours.
It happens. Not everyone can be Bill Gates and Bill Gates isn't evil.
It's easier to believe some nameless faceless evil has ruined everything for you than recognise and accept your own participation in the problems that beset your society.
It's easier to say it was someones fault, than just accept that things go wrong, or that people make mistakes or that accidents happen.
If something in the world is bad, it is lazy thinking to assume that it bad because someoen evil made it so.
A crash like this has been brewing for decades, if you lay the blame completely at the hands of those banks that dealt in debt assets, you are missing the underlying problem.
Hopefully the house can stop this transfer of money from the paychecks of middle and lower classes to the corporations and politicians who stand to benefit. If not it's one more taxation against the Republic with democratic ideals.
BTW - how did this thing get started in the senate ? Bills like this are supposed to start in the House ... there a loophole or something i missed?
This is true, tax bills originate in the House. The House is very protective of that procedure. The Senate is arguing that it is an extension of a prior House tax package. It will be very interesting to see how the House reacts.
Basically, for all the lights, whistles, and bells that the Senate put on it's Bill it does not change the underlying Bill from the one the House failed to pass last week. And the Bill the House failed to pass last week had a bunch of lights, whistles and bells on it that didn't change the underlying premise of the original 3 page Bill sent over by the White House.
I have still not seen anyone taking credit for writing that original three page Bill. Nor have I seen anyone alter any of the fundamentals of that original three page Bill.
My impression is that everything added seems to be sugar coating.
What really ticks me off about all of this is the conspiracy theorists who are trying to turn this whole ordeal into a conspiracy. Wake up people, its not Conspiracy, its just pure corruption. There is no secret man behind the curtain this time, none of this was made in back room deals. Its just a 100% corrupted government, who has been out in the open the whole time, we just all failed to see it(most of us) until now. 911 was not Bush's plan, Elvis is still dead, and no, sadly the Titanic was not blown up by Nazi's. One thing though is true, our government is corrupted, as we all know now and both Mccain and Obama have showed their true colors as of late and to me both do not seem to give a real damn about the people.
_____________________________ At the turn of the century... In 2008... Cracked.com voted Roosevelt as the most badass President of all time.
I tell you what we need. We need to put a Hitler era Nazi in the White House, give him about 6 months to kill off all the retards in the government. Put those high rollers in their place by forcing them to fend for themselves and have him assassinated.
Savers? You mean people who actually have money in a savings account? Are you for real? Please. Americans do not put money into savings accounts. The interest on them is crap. The Japanese do this, but not Americans. Nope. We *spend* we spend everything we make, and more. We go into debt and max out credit cards, then we get more credit cards and max those out. Then we take the equity out of our houses and try to refinance them.
Savers. You mean INVESTORS. Those *poor* helpless people who invested in the Stock Market, or were conned into sticking their money into 401(k)s that are also heavily invested into the stock market. Because we all know the market is a magical money making machine, and if you wait long enough, you will make money... As long as everyone else continues to invest as well.
No. I do not support the idea of letting people or institutions avoid the consequences of their decisions, good or bad. Greed may not have been the only factor in this, but it was one of the major ones. And, as usual, the rich fleeced the poor and now that their scheme is unraveling, they want us to pay more money for them to parachute out of it into some new scheme. No thanks.
Savers? You mean people who actually have money in a savings account? Are you for real? Please. Americans do not put money into savings accounts. The interest on them is crap. The Japanese do this, but not Americans. Nope. We *spend* we spend everything we make, and more. We go into debt and max out credit cards, then we get more credit cards and max those out. Then we take the equity out of our houses and try to refinance them. Savers. You mean INVESTORS. Those *poor* helpless people who invested in the Stock Market, or were conned into sticking their money into 401(k)s that are also heavily invested into the stock market. Because we all know the market is a magical money making machine, and if you wait long enough, you will make money... As long as everyone else continues to invest as well. No. I do not support the idea of letting people or institutions avoid the consequences of their decisions, good or bad. Greed may not have been the only factor in this, but it was one of the major ones. And, as usual, the rich fleeced the poor and now that their scheme is unraveling, they want us to pay more money for them to parachute out of it into some new scheme. No thanks.
Ah, the new scheme. You mean like allowing Joe Sixpack to invest a portion of his social security in the stock market?
So that when the stock market drops at the next economic downturn that wealth can be transferred?
Exactly so, olddaddy. Except I expect the US will be bankrupt by that time.
When we no longer can afford to make payments to our debtors, the game will be up. People who think that the US economy is too big to fail are wrong. Nothing is too big to fail.
FDIC didn't want to go "bankrupt" to bailout banks so the government had to step in to help the banks....we the middle class will suffer. We with house payments may suffer. When will the middle class get help. Guess more reason to vote Obama and Biden. Mccain will just be another Bush Administration. I'm so sick of our government and how they run this country. They don't care about the citizens. Not one bit. Take care of your people.
Sitting here this morning waiting nervously on the House Vote. So who else is watching CSPAN?
We need a new plan put forth. One with some new stiffer regulations. The world is heading into a recession there is no stopping this. The spark (the USA mortgage crisis) has already set off the powderkeg (Wallstreet and it's web of connections to the World's markets). Some are more insulated than others (a few Asian markets come to mind) but all will feel this effect.
Now is the time to restore regulation to the market. Return the stop gaps that were put into place after "The Great Depression" removed in recent years (past 30 yrs). A George Carlin video comes to mind expressing his thoughts on the education system here in America. New regulations that address the new complexity of "Modern Markets".
voting on something else need to pay more attention
Hey, what is going on over there. I thougth the US economy was so great that people did not even notice the "bad times". *looking for the exact quote*
yes i'm sure that quote comes from upper 10% until recent crisis......Most of the rest of us have seen this coming from the industry side of things as the many "blue collar" job losses as of late.
oh my it looks like they strong armed enough votes oh my gosh i wonder how much extra we will be spending in taxes for wall street and congress and seante jerks ....../shakes head
yeah, i guess its official ..... unless bush decides he wants to veto his own plan, its getting passed.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
I keep hearing the phrase, when will they help us out? The reality is thats sorta what put us into this situation. They extended loans to a vastly underpaid and over extended portion of society which they could never pay. Due primarily to bills put into action during clintons administration. Which I mite add Clinton all together didnt support.
In the end we have to pay for the generosity somehow. Everyone get there checkbooks out!
Of course in the end we can pay off the debts of the poorer class by taxing the middle class some more. Thats what were doing. The 700 billion dollar package is in fact a series of taxes which absorb your income to compensate and redistribute money. Which it effectively will.
Of course this is ignoring the entire issue of how you extract funds from corporate entities without effecting the economy.
I keep hearing the phrase, when will they help us out?
NOT AT ALL.
The problem is that the public never asks
Where is my bail-out?
Where is my tax break?
Where is my deduction?
Where is my subsidy?
Where is my health care exemption?
Industry, through lobbyists, are constantly --24 hours a day and seven days a week-- asking government to "help" them.
Did you see what I supplied about the bail-out package and what was inserted into it? It made the bail-out much, much worse. Yes. We needed to unclog the credit markets in the US, but the U.S. Treasury, Federal Reserve, taxpayer-pay-for-it approach was wrong. The private sector should have gotten involved, and the Treasury did try to get the private sector involved and they did NOT want these BAD debts.
700 BILLION DOLLAR BAIL-OUT:
18 Billion for "clean-energy tax breaks"
192 million to remove rum tax paid by Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands
397 million tax deduction for film and tv production
2 million tax exemption for wooden arrows manufacturers
49 million to pay for Exxon Valdez oil spill so Exxon does not have to pay
33 million for businesses in American Samoa to encourage development
4 million for training of mine-rescue teams
295 million for businesses on Indian reservations and 119 million for accelerated depreciation for property on Indian reservations
31 million for short-line railroad tracks [do not even really know what this is]
100 million for land improvement at motorsports racetracks
148 to reduce import duties to the Wool Trust Fund
NOT ONE CENT FOR *YOU*, GENEROUS TAXPAYER
*YOU* need to get "involved' and "active" in YOUR government as the powerful interests do with their lobbyists and campaign contributions.
You do not get 1 dollar; these people are getting MILLIONS. LOL.
Comments
And this is the bit that I consider lazy thinking.
It's just jealousy mate. No one has been bleeding you dry and stealing the fruits of your labour.
Other peoples labours are just more fruitfull than yours.
It happens. Not everyone can be Bill Gates and Bill Gates isn't evil.
It's easier to believe some nameless faceless evil has ruined everything for you than recognise and accept your own participation in the problems that beset your society.
It's easier to say it was someones fault, than just accept that things go wrong, or that people make mistakes or that accidents happen.
If something in the world is bad, it is lazy thinking to assume that it bad because someoen evil made it so.
A crash like this has been brewing for decades, if you lay the blame completely at the hands of those banks that dealt in debt assets, you are missing the underlying problem.
Hopefully the house can stop this transfer of money from the paychecks of middle and lower classes to the corporations and politicians who stand to benefit. If not it's one more taxation against the Republic with democratic ideals.
AC2 Player RIP Final Death Jan 31st 2017
Refugee of Auberean
Refugee of Dereth
This is true, tax bills originate in the House. The House is very protective of that procedure. The Senate is arguing that it is an extension of a prior House tax package. It will be very interesting to see how the House reacts.
Basically, for all the lights, whistles, and bells that the Senate put on it's Bill it does not change the underlying Bill from the one the House failed to pass last week. And the Bill the House failed to pass last week had a bunch of lights, whistles and bells on it that didn't change the underlying premise of the original 3 page Bill sent over by the White House.
I have still not seen anyone taking credit for writing that original three page Bill. Nor have I seen anyone alter any of the fundamentals of that original three page Bill.
My impression is that everything added seems to be sugar coating.
Interesting.
What really ticks me off about all of this is the conspiracy theorists who are trying to turn this whole ordeal into a conspiracy. Wake up people, its not Conspiracy, its just pure corruption. There is no secret man behind the curtain this time, none of this was made in back room deals. Its just a 100% corrupted government, who has been out in the open the whole time, we just all failed to see it(most of us) until now. 911 was not Bush's plan, Elvis is still dead, and no, sadly the Titanic was not blown up by Nazi's. One thing though is true, our government is corrupted, as we all know now and both Mccain and Obama have showed their true colors as of late and to me both do not seem to give a real damn about the people.
_____________________________
At the turn of the century...
In 2008...
Cracked.com voted Roosevelt as the most badass President of all time.
This is his story....
I tell you what we need. We need to put a Hitler era Nazi in the White House, give him about 6 months to kill off all the retards in the government. Put those high rollers in their place by forcing them to fend for themselves and have him assassinated.
Savers? You mean people who actually have money in a savings account? Are you for real? Please. Americans do not put money into savings accounts. The interest on them is crap. The Japanese do this, but not Americans. Nope. We *spend* we spend everything we make, and more. We go into debt and max out credit cards, then we get more credit cards and max those out. Then we take the equity out of our houses and try to refinance them.
Savers. You mean INVESTORS. Those *poor* helpless people who invested in the Stock Market, or were conned into sticking their money into 401(k)s that are also heavily invested into the stock market. Because we all know the market is a magical money making machine, and if you wait long enough, you will make money... As long as everyone else continues to invest as well.
No. I do not support the idea of letting people or institutions avoid the consequences of their decisions, good or bad. Greed may not have been the only factor in this, but it was one of the major ones. And, as usual, the rich fleeced the poor and now that their scheme is unraveling, they want us to pay more money for them to parachute out of it into some new scheme. No thanks.
Ah, the new scheme. You mean like allowing Joe Sixpack to invest a portion of his social security in the stock market?
So that when the stock market drops at the next economic downturn that wealth can be transferred?
Exactly so, olddaddy. Except I expect the US will be bankrupt by that time.
When we no longer can afford to make payments to our debtors, the game will be up. People who think that the US economy is too big to fail are wrong. Nothing is too big to fail.
FDIC didn't want to go "bankrupt" to bailout banks so the government had to step in to help the banks....we the middle class will suffer. We with house payments may suffer. When will the middle class get help. Guess more reason to vote Obama and Biden. Mccain will just be another Bush Administration. I'm so sick of our government and how they run this country. They don't care about the citizens. Not one bit. Take care of your people.
Sitting here this morning waiting nervously on the House Vote. So who else is watching CSPAN?
We need a new plan put forth. One with some new stiffer regulations. The world is heading into a recession there is no stopping this. The spark (the USA mortgage crisis) has already set off the powderkeg (Wallstreet and it's web of connections to the World's markets). Some are more insulated than others (a few Asian markets come to mind) but all will feel this effect.
Now is the time to restore regulation to the market. Return the stop gaps that were put into place after "The Great Depression" removed in recent years (past 30 yrs). A George Carlin video comes to mind expressing his thoughts on the education system here in America. New regulations that address the new complexity of "Modern Markets".
voting on something else need to pay more attention
Cedd
Hey, what is going on over there.
I thougth the US economy was so great that people did not even notice the "bad times".
*looking for the exact quote*
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
If you're able the vote is at 12:30pm EST TODAY.
I'm very nervous on today's outcome. Is HoR gonna pass or Fail this bill?
Vote NO
Cedd
yes i'm sure that quote comes from upper 10% until recent crisis......Most of the rest of us have seen this coming from the industry side of things as the many "blue collar" job losses as of late.
Cedd
oh my it looks like they strong armed enough votes oh my gosh i wonder how much extra we will be spending in taxes for wall street and congress and seante jerks ....../shakes head
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/financial_meltdown
yeah, i guess its official ..... unless bush decides he wants to veto his own plan, its getting passed.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
I keep hearing the phrase, when will they help us out? The reality is thats sorta what put us into this situation. They extended loans to a vastly underpaid and over extended portion of society which they could never pay. Due primarily to bills put into action during clintons administration. Which I mite add Clinton all together didnt support.
In the end we have to pay for the generosity somehow. Everyone get there checkbooks out!
Of course in the end we can pay off the debts of the poorer class by taxing the middle class some more. Thats what were doing. The 700 billion dollar package is in fact a series of taxes which absorb your income to compensate and redistribute money. Which it effectively will.
Of course this is ignoring the entire issue of how you extract funds from corporate entities without effecting the economy.
NOT AT ALL.
The problem is that the public never asks
Industry, through lobbyists, are constantly --24 hours a day and seven days a week-- asking government to "help" them.
Did you see what I supplied about the bail-out package and what was inserted into it? It made the bail-out much, much worse. Yes. We needed to unclog the credit markets in the US, but the U.S. Treasury, Federal Reserve, taxpayer-pay-for-it approach was wrong. The private sector should have gotten involved, and the Treasury did try to get the private sector involved and they did NOT want these BAD debts.
700 BILLION DOLLAR BAIL-OUT:
NOT ONE CENT FOR *YOU*, GENEROUS TAXPAYER
*YOU* need to get "involved' and "active" in YOUR government as the powerful interests do with their lobbyists and campaign contributions.
You do not get 1 dollar; these people are getting MILLIONS. LOL.