Well said nikoliath. The same jading seems to affect fans of vast genres of differing activities, from movies, music, consol gaming, etc, you have those that get burnt out and pine on about the "golden" days, lack of originality, and/or lack of "soul". I play mmorpgs to have fun, and that has been my goal since I first logged into the gemstone 3 text-based online world a bit before any of the graphical mmo's came out. I, personally, did not enjoy UO and didn't dive head first into graphical mmos until eq released.
After EQ, I've always tried to keep my perspective on my gaming (Eq was indeed Evercrack for me and my friends, we burnt out and became jaded, IE: Every expansion past velious ruined the game). I play warhammer currently, and sure it has its flaw, but for the moment, it is the most enjoyable mmo I've played in quite a while. I'm sure there are plenty of people who don't like it, but to try to refute someone elses opinion and pretend like yours is better than differing opinions due to experience, maturity, whatever (As I see done on this particular site everyday) is actually a moot point. No one is a "better" gamer for liking one type of game over another. These type of games are about grabbing some friends, going online, and having some fun.
I think it's the lack of community. I therefore went and joined a heavy RP guild and was much more immersed. I remember slaughtering dwarven wardens and comming out of a tunnel only to be chased off by an entire outpost of dwarves. I made it to the camp in a grove of pines and it was cold, frost on the air and pine trees covered in snow, and a Zeolot is standing by the fire, an old man. He squints at me and goes, "Lord Arakan.. is that you?" it turns out to be a fellow guild member, he explains the situation in the region and we gather others to go take charge of it. I find any game is enhanced by a good guild and RP immersion.
They need to move quickly to reduce the XP you get from scenarios. A quick fix would be to at least remove the 'quests' for the scenarios. PQs were a great idea, but they are getting harder to do because everyone is in the scenarios. Personally, I'm forcing myself to do more stuff outside with guild and friends (quests, PQs, rvr-areas), because it makes the game a LOT more fun. For now, i would recommend: "Just say NO to repeating scenarios... do 3-5 a day, or at most 2 runs of each".... you will enjoy the game a WHOLE lot more... (will not level as fast, but who gives a crap about that?... we play to have fun right?)
Mythic could always increase the amount of XP in RvR, PQ, PvE instead of nerfing scenarios. Personally I feel very let down by the amounts given out after accomplishing a task. The problem is that scenarios take care of every aspect a player wants. More experience than any other activity. More renown which leads to better gear. Not to mention scenarios offer the closest guarentee of blanaced/fair sided PvP in the game [when compared to world RvR which is a total crap shoot of how the teams will be].
[edit: I just wanted to add that I think the removal/revamping of the repeatable of scenario quests/kill x enemy quests are a big part of the scenario problem. The problem being that they are anchored to quest NPCs in specific locations doesn't lend well to people going out into the world. They should be handled like kill collectors. Just talk to them at the end of the night and get experience for how every many times you completed a scenario, total enemy kills and then extend that to world PvP also. Tethering XP to a quest NPC that must be visited between each scenario (or world PvP) doesn't do much good for a world based game.]
I understand why people do them over any other activity, but I don't think reducing scenario experience alone will solve the problem.
There were NO golden days of MMOs.There was only the first /early days.Aside from graphics little to no improvements (gameplay wise) have come along, and in many cases steps backward have been made.
The first days,were bad also.BUT since they had that "newness" to them, and since we had no idea of the flaws littered thru them,some of us get confused and think they were "the good ole days".
But its just confused hindsight caused by ignorance of the then true state,as people didnt reconize the flaws yet.
BUT now we do reconize.At least alot of us do.And we should as, they are pretty much the same flaws that were around all the way back to The Realm.Adn each time the dev teams turn out the same old products with new skins,but the same old flaws we see it right off now.
Its not that the prosective customer has become jaded,its just that hes been sold the same crap with the same flaws so many times now, that he can spot them a mile off.You dont even have to be in an alpha or beta now adays, as the dev are sooooo enamored with hype, they point out the same old flaws clearly for us to see.
In their rush to put themselves in the spot light, and the game in there also, they crow about the flaws as if they were something good.Becuase they have NO clue.To the experinced prospective customer though,that hype highlights the flaws as well as it highlights whatever the dev team feels like hyping.
Theres a reason we arent playing the old games,and its the same reason we arent playing the new games.Its the same old flaws.
4. My main objection to many of the posts on this forum, not just WAR, is that they are often posted by ex MMO fans. I say ex, because they are bored of MMOS, their posts often complain about subjective issues aswell as lack of originality, lack of sandbox openness, and lastly, failing to give them that awe factor. No consideration is given to what the games design brief was. No concession that this particular game might simply not be for them, no it HAS to be flawed! IT WILL FAIL! I could write a whole post on the failure of understanding people have with GENRE. You guys ask too much for a box fee of £30 or $50 and £8 / $14 a month some of expect a virtual life to replace your own real life and each new MMORPG to hold your attention for YEARS. I think we get great value for money.
Along all the "subjective" issues you listed, only one is, that's awe factor; for any other comparing games' features to one another is complete objectivity.
Also, while the must be people like you describe looking for a new first time that will last them for years, some other just expect a quality entertainment which will hold their attention for longer than a week.
In the console world you can have games that suck and are recognized as sucky by the pres (DMC2), and others in the same genre but with different mechanics which shines like diamonds (GoD of war 2).
MMos are no different: a few are/were good, most blows, and all your babling about players being jaded do not save most MMOs, and in particular WAR, from comparative criticism to other MMOS.
Today in 2008, i don't play WoW, yet i'll never say this game sucks: it's still a brilliant piece of gameplay. But today also, i play WAR, and i stand by what i said: it's not a good game, and it has nothing to do with me being jaded, it's just an opinion based on past experience.
I know it's hard to understand, but people who criticize MMO are not doing it out of spite, it's a forum and people come and express their opinion about the game. Vain? Yes, who isn't on the internet...
My addiction History: >> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore >> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual >> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
I completely agree with the OP. He describes the game perfectly. The lack of community in this "mmo" is stunning, I couldn't imagine how it could be worse. No general chat to speak of and no one has ever, EVER responded to area chat when I try to get a group together (and I'm on a high pop server - azezel). The interface for communication is horrible, but I'm assuming they fix it in the near future. I'm not done playing this game just yet. The pvp is fun, at least in scenarios where its harder for chaos to use its numbers advantage.
By community you mean wow-esque garbage on general chat?
WTS xxx
I had your mom
how do I move
PC on XXX
CHUCK NORRISSSSSSSSS
Does the above, scintillating, "community chat" make you feel warm inside, and the lack of this crap make you feel alone in the WAR world?
You are comparing a solo-guild oriented game with a TEAM-REALM based game?
Lets put down our "what WoW did" hat for a moment and just think about what Warhammer might get from a better chat system.
Anything to help communicate/request reinforcements for a battle under way would be nice. Something other than having to check your map nonstop for past battle action markers and hope there is something going on. I think more people would do world PvP if there was some sort of communication going on. Not running out to a battle mark only to find yourself wicked outnumbered or it is just a small group messing around.
How about people requesting help for PQ's, quests or ever starting some RvR raiding parties? The open group system is nice, but it isn't anywhere near as productive as a good LFG system or even global chat. There is a reason why so many PQs sit empty.
Hell I would even be happy to see some WTS chat since the auction house is almost barren of activety.
Right now there just is no way to effectively communicate with your realm to organize/motivate most things. Remember, this isn't some small group or guild based game. This is a REALM based game that would greatly benefit from realm chatter.
4. My main objection to many of the posts on this forum, not just WAR, is that they are often posted by ex MMO fans. I say ex, because they are bored of MMOS, their posts often complain about subjective issues aswell as lack of originality, lack of sandbox openness, and lastly, failing to give them that awe factor. No consideration is given to what the games design brief was. No concession that this particular game might simply not be for them, no it HAS to be flawed! IT WILL FAIL! I could write a whole post on the failure of understanding people have with GENRE. You guys ask too much for a box fee of £30 or $50 and £8 / $14 a month some of expect a virtual life to replace your own real life and each new MMORPG to hold your attention for YEARS. I think we get great value for money.
Along all the "subjective" issues you listed, only one is, that's awe factor; for any other comparing games' features to one another is complete objectivity.
Also, while the must be people like you describe looking for a new first time that will last them for years, some other just expect a quality entertainment which will hold their attention for longer than a week.
In the console world you can have games that suck and are recognized as sucky by the pres (DMC2), and others in the same genre but with different mechanics which shines like diamonds (GoD of war 2).
MMos are no different: a few are/were good, most blows, and all your babling about players being jaded do not save most MMOs, and in particular WAR, from comparative criticism to other MMOS.
Today in 2008, i don't play WoW, yet i'll never say this game sucks: it's still a brilliant piece of gameplay. But today also, i play WAR, and i stand by what i said: it's not a good game, and it has nothing to do with me being jaded, it's just an opinion based on past experience.
I know it's hard to understand, but people who criticize MMO are not doing it out of spite, it's a forum and people come and express their opinion about the game. Vain? Yes, who isn't on the internet...
reread the red part. I am fully aware of the meaning of the word subjective.
I completely agree with the OP. He describes the game perfectly. The lack of community in this "mmo" is stunning, I couldn't imagine how it could be worse. No general chat to speak of and no one has ever, EVER responded to area chat when I try to get a group together (and I'm on a high pop server - azezel). The interface for communication is horrible, but I'm assuming they fix it in the near future. I'm not done playing this game just yet. The pvp is fun, at least in scenarios where its harder for chaos to use its numbers advantage.
By community you mean wow-esque garbage on general chat?
WTS xxx
I had your mom
how do I move
PC on XXX
CHUCK NORRISSSSSSSSS
Does the above, scintillating, "community chat" make you feel warm inside, and the lack of this crap make you feel alone in the WAR world?
You are comparing a solo-guild oriented game with a TEAM-REALM based game?
Lets put down our "what WoW did" hat for a moment and just think about what Warhammer might get from a better chat system.
Anything to help communicate/request reinforcements for a battle under way would be nice. Something other than having to check your map nonstop for past battle action markers and hope there is something going on. I think more people would do world PvP if there was some sort of communication going on. Not running out to a battle mark only to find yourself wicked outnumbered or it is just a small group messing around.
How about people requesting help for PQ's, quests or ever starting some RvR raiding parties? The open group system is nice, but it isn't anywhere near as productive as a good LFG system or even global chat. There is a reason why so many PQs sit empty.
Hell I would even be happy to see some WTS chat since the auction house is almost barren of activety.
Right now there just is no way to effectively communicate with your realm to organize/motivate most things. Remember, this isn't some small group or guild based game. This is a REALM based game that would greatly benefit from realm chatter.
Originally posted by girlgeek Originally posted by mrw0lf Originally posted by girlgeek
Oh and by the way, in four years of playing, I have yet to see "WTS" in general chat. Now if you want to argue that idiots post in trade channel, oh I'll agree with that. However, I only see that channel when I'm in a major city, AND amazingly enough, the /ignore feature still works in major cities!
I have no opinion on the subject either way, but, are you seriously saying in four years of playing WoW you have never seen a single 'WTS' in general? Do you play more than 5 seconds per day? Actually, yes. I play for about 5 HOURS a day. Maybe I'm so busy actually DOING things in game, that I don't notice? O.o I suppose that's possible. I have maxed level crafters of every profession except blacksmithing and engineering, 4 level 70s, a level 63, 55, 44, and a few "baby alts." Perhaps I just have enough to "do" that I don't stare at general chat as much as other people do. Or maybe our server is just a little more mature population-wise. That is actually possible. There do seem to be a LOT of "adult only" guilds on this server, in comparison to the few others I have played on. Great. Now you have me wanting to log in and just go from zone to zone watching general chat. /sigh Maybe he meant /trade chat, er I meant /drama chat. I haven't played WoW for 4 years, more like less than 4 months and I have seen WTS in general chat.
You are missing the point completely. Consoles games are NOT easy, they are challenging... but they don't require you to pile up as many hours to achieve something. What definied EQ more than anything is the time it took to get something; EQ wasnt hard, it was time consuming. War is both easy and not time consuming; if you put both features in the same game, it becomes boring, because there is no challenge. If WAR was harder, we would forgive the fact it's quick paced, but you can't have both in the same game... it's a design mistake. If so many people are bored with the game 2 weeks after release, it means they don't see any point in playing, because it doesnt require them to use brain function.
People play WAR for the wrong reasons. When I fire up CoD4 on my PS3, I can enjoy myself for an hour, maybe two. Same goes for WAR. I get in there, fight other players and enjoy myself for an hour, maybe two.
What's wrong with that? Do we really need a game we can play for 12 hours a day and still be "mentally challenging"?
ONE BIG difference. COD4 is FREE to play.
In WAR you pay to play.
MMORPG's are created to live in a world with your character, not shoot or fight mindlessly without a purpose.
It's good to see one of the die hard supporters admit he can't play the thing for more than an hour ... after 2 weeks.
I said it would be boring to play it after 1 week. We see the results now.
War is a GIANT step back in every respect of what a MMORPG should be AND it is clunky, lagyy and badly designed both in server capacity, PVE challenge AND RvR wise.
If this thing is still on Xfire's top 10 within 8 weeks I'll give you 100 Euro.
Every copy sold of War is free publicity for WotLK. And every day it shows more and more.
I disagree on basically......everything you just said. I choose to pay for it. I don't mind paying for it. I also do not feel compelled to explain why.
I don't LIVE in a game world. I'm not out of touch with reality. I seek fun, enjoyment, not a 2nd life (pun intended).
Ive played it for a good 9 months now. I'm still not bored. Tastes differ.
Don't even start telling me about bad design. I see too much wanna-be programmers claiming to be know-it-alls around here. But I'm not saying it couldn't improve either. I just see it differently.
XFire means squat regarding "top 10's" and "most played". I couldn't care less either, since I don't use XFire.
And the whole "every copy of WAR sold...." crap reminds me of Bodypass. Yet it still doesn't make any sense to me.
EDIT: Hahaha. I just realized you ARE bodypass. Crap, I promised myself never to reply to you again. Ah well.
Let me help you, I see you aint to hot on the comprehension stakes. You are quoting from a later response, try looking in the actual post HE quoted then reply.
So as you have stated, WoW chat ( in this caes ) is full of tripe, as you make liberal use of the /ignore feature. I presume that you are making the hint that you have put me on /ignore good for you old chap, good for you.
Anyway this simply a flame fest, so /wave
Again, your maturity level is astounding. Furthermore, I'm not an "old chap," I'm a 45 year old mother of three grown children. "Ol' chap" means "old boy" or "old fellow," of which I am neither. (Okay, I'll cop to the OLD part. But I'm not a "boy" or "fellow.")
And, in case you had not noticed in your VAST gaming career, all MMOs have a /ignore feature. It would actually be rather nice if enough people in Warhammer actually SPOKE requiring you to have to USE it once-in-a-while. The OPs original post had more to do with the lack of a sense of community in the game.
I believe in the year that I've been a member of this forum site, I have put ONE person on ignore. I'm not so immature as to have to do that just because someone disagrees with me.
I love when someone runs out of points to argue and simply dismisses a thread with a /wave type comment. /rollseyes
1. Old chap is simply a saying, a colloquiallism along the lines of Old Bean, Me old China ( china plate - mate ).
2. No need to try to belittle me by casting aspersions on my VAST gaming career. You cried immature! at me earlier, so .
3. I /waved to try and prevent a tit-for-tat reply session which degenerates into a flame war.
4. My main objection to many of the posts on this forum, not just WAR, is that they are often posted by ex MMO fans. I say ex, because they are bored of MMOS, their posts often complain about subjective issues aswell as lack of originality, lack of sandbox openness, and lastly, failing to give them that awe factor. No consideration is given to what the games design brief was. No concession that this particular game might simply not be for them, no it HAS to be flawed! IT WILL FAIL!
These people come here and berate the developers and current fans. They label the games "crap" "subpar", "boring", "copy of [insert MMO]". They complain about things that actually make the game an MMORPG i.e character development, skills and abilities, RPG style combat, with comments like "it wasn't revolutionary, it's the same old thing". No consideration about GENRE. I could write a whole post on the failure of understanding people have with GENRE.
Some posters feel a sense of satisfaction, I'm sure of it, in rubbishing in 5 minutes a game that has taken a team of dozens, tens of millions of dollars and 4 or 5 years of hard work to make.It's like watching the opening Paramount sequence at the cinema, walking out and telling the people queuing "Don't bother, the film was crap".Good for them, it's their prerogative, but it's still jibberish in my eyes.
For the posters I am talking about, nothing will rekindle their awe of their first MMORPG gaming experience - nothing. That does not make every subsequent game actually rubbish. I dislike them peddaling their bile here, in some vain attempt to persuade others to share their appathy.
I am a firm believer in people forming their own opinions on these games. I too am writing this in vain, I know that. I don't care if you like or dislike the game, it's the pointless finger pointing at inane subjective "faults" that irk me enough to reply to the posts.
Maybe a new discussion forum is in order. A place for Ex fans to hang out and complain till their hearts sing. It's been 11 years since UO launched. I think it's logical that there are a growing number of "bored" MMO fans out there, but don't blame the industry.
You guys ask too much for a box fee of £30 or $50 and £8 / $14 a month some of expect a virtual life to replace your own real life and each new MMORPG to hold your attention for YEARS. I think we get great value for money.
Good day.
Fair enough and well said.
I may not agree with absolutely everything you say, but THAT was a very good post. Thank you for not writing off the thread.
Furthermore, I apologize for being snarky with the "VAST" gaming career comment.
I never played a Mythic game until now. I am having fun in Warhammer and have been playing MMO's since 1998.
There are some excellent posts in this thread and we should not be upset about what some other players type. After CB testing EQ and then playing it for 3 years most other mmo's were not the same.
To all the WOW haters. Blizzard made a brilliant product and it was fun and immersive for the time I played it.
The chat in Warhammer quite frankly is terrible. Mark made a post at warhammer alliance stating just that. Mythic is asking for player input if you want to head there.
There are some bugs in the game and the combat is clunky at times. The main reason I am staying with it is the fun I am having. We do have RVR and take keeps.
The biggest problem in my eyes right now is alot of folks are playing hardcore only to find the servers in teirs 3 and 4 empty.
To all players here, I actually find it refreshing a dev actually will admit and make a public post . That speaks alot to me currently as the game develops. If it is "all blow and no go," I will be back here letting the gaming community know.
There were NO golden days of MMOs.There was only the first /early days.Aside from graphics little to no improvements (gameplay wise) have come along, and in many cases steps backward have been made. The first days,were bad also.BUT since they had that "newness" to them, and since we had no idea of the flaws littered thru them,some of us get confused and think they were "the good ole days". But its just confused hindsight caused by ignorance of the then true state,as people didnt reconize the flaws yet. BUT now we do reconize.At least alot of us do.And we should as, they are pretty much the same flaws that were around all the way back to The Realm.Adn each time the dev teams turn out the same old products with new skins,but the same old flaws we see it right off now. Its not that the prosective customer has become jaded,its just that hes been sold the same crap with the same flaws so many times now, that he can spot them a mile off.You dont even have to be in an alpha or beta now adays, as the dev are sooooo enamored with hype, they point out the same old flaws clearly for us to see. In their rush to put themselves in the spot light, and the game in there also, they crow about the flaws as if they were something good.Becuase they have NO clue.To the experinced prospective customer though,that hype highlights the flaws as well as it highlights whatever the dev team feels like hyping. Theres a reason we arent playing the old games,and its the same reason we arent playing the new games.Its the same old flaws.
I agree with this and what Omega3 said on the last page.
A lot of us aren't jaded, we just want originality and not retread.
I think the reason why people can't seem to understand is because, despite what they may think, they haven't played enough games to know the difference between a new idea and an old one.
EDIT: Actually thinking about it maybe that does make me a bit jaded from the perspective of the people I am refering to, however this does not equal mmo burnout. It is still no excuse for not making their own original gameplay, others can do it so should they.
The interesting thing about War at this moment,is that it appears to be fixable, if only the devs would break with MMO Dev tradition and history and actaully make the right choices and implementations.
If they follow the tradition of listening to the bois blowing smoke up there backside telling them and the other players the game is fine,they are gonna end up with yet another far underperforming title that they have to offer bribes, and beg, and apoligize for in attempts to get a respectivable sized customer base.
They need to listen to the critical posts most of all.Among those are the people who want to like the game, who want tp pay the monthy fees but are so dissapointed yet agian, they cant bring themselves to even log in and use their remaining time.
The bois will be there to blow the devs and the game kisses even if they take a dump in their cereal every morning.
The larger numbers, the numbers that include the majority of the prospective customer base, are the ones they need to make happy.
Wrong... there WAS a golden age of MMO's. It was when MMO's still had soul and were made challenging and immersive. Now it's just theme park rides and no soul, sorry like that smart chick said War is an MMOPVPG not a true MMORPG. Sry try again
WAR is one of the best mmo today. if u can point better, please do us this favor. otherwise, maybe u just need to take a break from playing mmo for about 6 months (you are apparently too bored)
WAR is not one of the best MMO's today. If you're looking for that, you go play EVE Online, or some other game that leads the pack in innovation.
He shouldn't be bored playing an MMORPG, that's the thing. The game should be fun and keep the player interested day after day.
For the most part, he is right. The game simply has no soul, no spark. It's an interesting game, but I feel no need to read my Tome of Knowledge entires, nor do I feel the need to even glance at what a quest giver says. The biggest thing that bothers me is that no one talks or socializes, but that is the way it is today in most MMORPG's. I'm not looking for a chat room, but often times I will be in a party for a public quest and no words will be said at all. Not even a "welcome to the group". The MMORPG has become a single player game, and it mind's well be one until developers realize the potential for the genre.
Well, after a while people actually did start talking evedsfry now and then.. Only in their own language. Our guild had split into nationalities. We ended up kicking everyone from the guild and switching to a high/high pop server. Now I run around with my wee goblin shaman in PQs asking if people want to group up and AoE mobs for faster exp and influence. No one answers. Ever. Is this game really a MMORPG? Or am I just playing with bots? Because I feel that the A.I is pretty retarded and could use some fixing.
Now that may sound strange to you, but maybe a lot of people dont know what "AoE Grinding" is?
I guess a lot of people played WoW and made their high level char with solo quest and never did a nice AOE group with 1) tank 2) healer 3) damage dealer 4)debuffer.
and its difficult for some people to admit if they dont know something, they would have to admit it. and maybe they just dont answer then
God the OP is such a baby. It's a team game. People need to put themselves out there more and organize parties, and communicate.
It takes coordination to take a keep, or run a PQ. In FFXI people used to sit at the entrance to zones and shout for Parties all day. You couldn't even level without a good party. When have you ever tried shouting for group at a PQ or Warcamp? My guess is people are crying without ever having even TRIED organizing anything.
In Tier 4 you can't capture a city without taking control of 2 of the 3 Tiers. Holding Keeps is a big part of that, and once we have people at endgame trying to take cities, we're going to need more World RvR. Right now, the game is still maturing.
It's a good system, but you have to give it time. Two freaking weeks of a full on PvP leveling system + decent quests, good guild features, and a well-balanced class setup and people are STILL crying. Just shutup already.
The game is brilliant, OP is simply not looking hard enough. I have no problem ever to find or make a group in any level range. Oh well , back to console games for you.
No matter how you cut it the best way for Warhammer to improve is to get people talking in general chat and give them incentive to group up.......Part of the problem with the MMO genre is that too many games are catering to solo players because they feel thats what we want (blame WOW for that)...... The problem is though that a game like Warhammer really should encourage grouping right off the bat so tjhat players learn to work together and develop a feeling of being needed.......I thought the scenarios might be a problem because that is what the players that came over from WoW are used to and probably their preferred style of PVP.......The players that came from DAoC are the ones that want solid RVR PVP..... It sounds like if Warhammer wants to survive long term they are going to have to make serious changes to the core ideas of the game.......
I dont think they care about surviving long term. Its obvious in how they made the game or should I say Halfway made the game.
Agreed 100%.
WAR is the classic modern thinking that is killing modern MMORPGs. Most of the current gen of players don't care though, because, to be frank, they never saw how good these games can be when they have a soul. The only thing that has ever made them good is the players, but they don't seem to get it.
We live in the age of the MMO arcade game, and thats a shame to me personally.
Instead of having golden eggs for the next ten years, they all seem happy to just settle for killing the goose for one big dinner.
So Sad.
I have to admit that I agree with the OP 100% even though I dont actually want to. I really want to like this game a lot. The terrible thing is that it actually is the best mmo available at the moment in my opinion and yet I cant deny the fact that its......well.....crap.
I have been playing it for the past week on and off and I was enjoying it. Admittedly the PvE quests are just boring brainless drivel (why do they come out with such stupid shit for these quests) but the PvP aspects have been fun. However the game just doesnt seem to take advantage of this aspect. Maybe its great on other servers but my server isnt a low population server and yet I rarely seem to encounter any interesting conflict in the open RvR areas. There just doesnt seem to be any particular incentive to go anywhere in particular. Oh so Order have taken a tower.......so what? Just take it back some other time when and if someone can be bothered. People are just too busy gaining exp and renown points.
I agree with other people that have said the scenarios actually detract from the rest of the game. Its as though the game is trying to cater to too many styles of play. Its either instant gratification mini battlegrounds, Open world PvP or boring old PvE. If the scenarios were not in the game then the PvE quests could be mixed up more with the open RvR content. That way even on lower population servers the players would be pushed into situations where they encountered each other more often. There would be some real reasons to slaughter your enemy. Instead it feels like a very boring PvE game to me that has fun PvP elements added onto it.
I have only played the game for a week though and have yet to progress beyond the first tier (I'm only level 10 and I experimented with some other classes) so maybe everything changes more later on but so far I have been doing lots of PvE and PQ's interspersed with the occasional scenario when its available (people only seem to ever play in bloody Nordenwatch) to break up the monotony. The RvR areas were really empty whenever I went in them.
I dunno I'm gonna give it another go tommorow and see if something sparks my interest in it but to be honest I think my initial "Ooooh this actually good fun" impression is beginning to wear off a bit. Its just too easy to see through the game and see how basic and simplistic it actually is. I think I just need something with a lot more depth to hold my attention. The OP is right. This really is an MMo arcade game. I hope hope the future holds something more interesting.......a LOT more interesting. I hope Earthrise is good.
Let me help you, I see you aint to hot on the comprehension stakes. You are quoting from a later response, try looking in the actual post HE quoted then reply.
So as you have stated, WoW chat ( in this caes ) is full of tripe, as you make liberal use of the /ignore feature. I presume that you are making the hint that you have put me on /ignore good for you old chap, good for you.
Anyway this simply a flame fest, so /wave
Again, your maturity level is astounding. Furthermore, I'm not an "old chap," I'm a 45 year old mother of three grown children. "Ol' chap" means "old boy" or "old fellow," of which I am neither. (Okay, I'll cop to the OLD part. But I'm not a "boy" or "fellow.")
And, in case you had not noticed in your VAST gaming career, all MMOs have a /ignore feature. It would actually be rather nice if enough people in Warhammer actually SPOKE requiring you to have to USE it once-in-a-while. The OPs original post had more to do with the lack of a sense of community in the game.
I believe in the year that I've been a member of this forum site, I have put ONE person on ignore. I'm not so immature as to have to do that just because someone disagrees with me.
I love when someone runs out of points to argue and simply dismisses a thread with a /wave type comment. /rollseyes
1. Old chap is simply a saying, a colloquiallism along the lines of Old Bean, Me old China ( china plate - mate ).
2. No need to try to belittle me by casting aspersions on my VAST gaming career. You cried immature! at me earlier, so .
3. I /waved to try and prevent a tit-for-tat reply session which degenerates into a flame war.
4. My main objection to many of the posts on this forum, not just WAR, is that they are often posted by ex MMO fans. I say ex, because they are bored of MMOS, their posts often complain about subjective issues aswell as lack of originality, lack of sandbox openness, and lastly, failing to give them that awe factor. No consideration is given to what the games design brief was. No concession that this particular game might simply not be for them, no it HAS to be flawed! IT WILL FAIL!
These people come here and berate the developers and current fans. They label the games "crap" "subpar", "boring", "copy of [insert MMO]". They complain about things that actually make the game an MMORPG i.e character development, skills and abilities, RPG style combat, with comments like "it wasn't revolutionary, it's the same old thing". No consideration about GENRE. I could write a whole post on the failure of understanding people have with GENRE.
Some posters feel a sense of satisfaction, I'm sure of it, in rubbishing in 5 minutes a game that has taken a team of dozens, tens of millions of dollars and 4 or 5 years of hard work to make.It's like watching the opening Paramount sequence at the cinema, walking out and telling the people queuing "Don't bother, the film was crap".Good for them, it's their prerogative, but it's still jibberish in my eyes.
For the posters I am talking about, nothing will rekindle their awe of their first MMORPG gaming experience - nothing. That does not make every subsequent game actually rubbish. I dislike them peddaling their bile here, in some vain attempt to persuade others to share their appathy.
I am a firm believer in people forming their own opinions on these games. I too am writing this in vain, I know that. I don't care if you like or dislike the game, it's the pointless finger pointing at inane subjective "faults" that irk me enough to reply to the posts.
Maybe a new discussion forum is in order. A place for Ex fans to hang out and complain till their hearts sing. It's been 11 years since UO launched. I think it's logical that there are a growing number of "bored" MMO fans out there, but don't blame the industry.
You guys ask too much for a box fee of £30 or $50 and £8 / $14 a month some of expect a virtual life to replace your own real life and each new MMORPG to hold your attention for YEARS. I think we get great value for money.
Good day.
Fair enough and well said.
I may not agree with absolutely everything you say, but THAT was a very good post. Thank you for not writing off the thread.
Furthermore, I apologize for being snarky with the "VAST" gaming career comment.
Ditto, sorry for any bitchiness, perceived or otherwise.
I agree with the poster but only half-assedly. The lack of soul goes both ways. If people aren't talking to you, think High School social ethics. Stay away from the freaky people or the people you hate. Ta-da.
--------------------- Sniper is another term for unorthodox surgeon.
Well, that was short and, mostly, sweet. I got 2 weeks out of WAR, about the same as AoC tbh, and now I'm done. I can't play a game that is this lonely. Boy, talk about destroy the soul of a MMORPG through system design choices. WAR has no community beyond introverted utility (as opposed to 'family') guilds that just exist to zerg the content in the most basic way. Noone talks, noone listens, noone co-operates. PQs are dead where ever I go, scenerios are mindless zerg fests where victory or defeat is random and nothing to do with skill, PvE is 100% solo quest grind. It's all so soulless. Open world PvP is broken on the PvP server I play on, with people just using scenerios to level to the max allowed and then sitting around and picking off players 10 levels below them that are trying to do their quests, while actually thinking that this is what quality PvP is. Frustrating and boring. Achievment rewards are pointless and dull. Itemisation and customisation are, frankly, rubbish. I feel no drive at all to develop my character, because I already know what she will look and handle like by looking at the (solo) guy running by me that is 2 levels higher. Pointless. Despite the core lore being good, the PvE quests are GPS led idiot drivel, leading you through safari parks of static mobs just wait for you to kill them. WAR imo isnt even really a MMORPG tbh... any more then TR is. It feels that everything that defines a MMORPG has been tacked as an afterthought onto the PvP core, which is fine if you are only looking for a solo zerg grind PvP game, but it makes it a terrible MMORPG. I would rather play Savage then this game, its honest about what it is, a fantasy PvP/ RTS game, and is way more fun. I guess it didnt have the hype machine of WAR though, so most won't even try it, which is a shame. WAR is such a merengue of a game... Light and sugary, which gives you a rush for a little while, but leaving you to crash when it wears off... I seriously wonder if this game has any longevity at all for the general public. All I know is that It hasnt for me. Btw people, change the skin on this game and it really isnt all that different from AoC, so I have no idea why you all hate one and love the other. They have far more similarities then differences if you take a better look. Both are a really sad indicator on the state of the genre to me.
I think your comments are dead on. I only blame myself, however, because I sort of had an idea, before I bought the game, of what it might turn out to be.
Comments
Well said nikoliath. The same jading seems to affect fans of vast genres of differing activities, from movies, music, consol gaming, etc, you have those that get burnt out and pine on about the "golden" days, lack of originality, and/or lack of "soul". I play mmorpgs to have fun, and that has been my goal since I first logged into the gemstone 3 text-based online world a bit before any of the graphical mmo's came out. I, personally, did not enjoy UO and didn't dive head first into graphical mmos until eq released.
After EQ, I've always tried to keep my perspective on my gaming (Eq was indeed Evercrack for me and my friends, we burnt out and became jaded, IE: Every expansion past velious ruined the game). I play warhammer currently, and sure it has its flaw, but for the moment, it is the most enjoyable mmo I've played in quite a while. I'm sure there are plenty of people who don't like it, but to try to refute someone elses opinion and pretend like yours is better than differing opinions due to experience, maturity, whatever (As I see done on this particular site everyday) is actually a moot point. No one is a "better" gamer for liking one type of game over another. These type of games are about grabbing some friends, going online, and having some fun.
Everyone complained about UO back in the day too.
The mmorpg community have always been drama queens and large egomaniacs. But thru the years it has gotten worse and worse.
They act like the genre was made for them.
Me myself im close to sticking a fork in MMOG forums. (something alot of people have done years ago).
I think it's the lack of community. I therefore went and joined a heavy RP guild and was much more immersed. I remember slaughtering dwarven wardens and comming out of a tunnel only to be chased off by an entire outpost of dwarves. I made it to the camp in a grove of pines and it was cold, frost on the air and pine trees covered in snow, and a Zeolot is standing by the fire, an old man. He squints at me and goes, "Lord Arakan.. is that you?" it turns out to be a fellow guild member, he explains the situation in the region and we gather others to go take charge of it. I find any game is enhanced by a good guild and RP immersion.
------------------------------
'Cry Havoc, and Let Loose the Dogs of WARRRRR!!!'
Mythic could always increase the amount of XP in RvR, PQ, PvE instead of nerfing scenarios. Personally I feel very let down by the amounts given out after accomplishing a task. The problem is that scenarios take care of every aspect a player wants. More experience than any other activity. More renown which leads to better gear. Not to mention scenarios offer the closest guarentee of blanaced/fair sided PvP in the game [when compared to world RvR which is a total crap shoot of how the teams will be].
[edit: I just wanted to add that I think the removal/revamping of the repeatable of scenario quests/kill x enemy quests are a big part of the scenario problem. The problem being that they are anchored to quest NPCs in specific locations doesn't lend well to people going out into the world. They should be handled like kill collectors. Just talk to them at the end of the night and get experience for how every many times you completed a scenario, total enemy kills and then extend that to world PvP also. Tethering XP to a quest NPC that must be visited between each scenario (or world PvP) doesn't do much good for a world based game.]
I understand why people do them over any other activity, but I don't think reducing scenario experience alone will solve the problem.
There were NO golden days of MMOs.There was only the first /early days.Aside from graphics little to no improvements (gameplay wise) have come along, and in many cases steps backward have been made.
The first days,were bad also.BUT since they had that "newness" to them, and since we had no idea of the flaws littered thru them,some of us get confused and think they were "the good ole days".
But its just confused hindsight caused by ignorance of the then true state,as people didnt reconize the flaws yet.
BUT now we do reconize.At least alot of us do.And we should as, they are pretty much the same flaws that were around all the way back to The Realm.Adn each time the dev teams turn out the same old products with new skins,but the same old flaws we see it right off now.
Its not that the prosective customer has become jaded,its just that hes been sold the same crap with the same flaws so many times now, that he can spot them a mile off.You dont even have to be in an alpha or beta now adays, as the dev are sooooo enamored with hype, they point out the same old flaws clearly for us to see.
In their rush to put themselves in the spot light, and the game in there also, they crow about the flaws as if they were something good.Becuase they have NO clue.To the experinced prospective customer though,that hype highlights the flaws as well as it highlights whatever the dev team feels like hyping.
Theres a reason we arent playing the old games,and its the same reason we arent playing the new games.Its the same old flaws.
Along all the "subjective" issues you listed, only one is, that's awe factor; for any other comparing games' features to one another is complete objectivity.
Also, while the must be people like you describe looking for a new first time that will last them for years, some other just expect a quality entertainment which will hold their attention for longer than a week.
In the console world you can have games that suck and are recognized as sucky by the pres (DMC2), and others in the same genre but with different mechanics which shines like diamonds (GoD of war 2).
MMos are no different: a few are/were good, most blows, and all your babling about players being jaded do not save most MMOs, and in particular WAR, from comparative criticism to other MMOS.
Today in 2008, i don't play WoW, yet i'll never say this game sucks: it's still a brilliant piece of gameplay. But today also, i play WAR, and i stand by what i said: it's not a good game, and it has nothing to do with me being jaded, it's just an opinion based on past experience.
I know it's hard to understand, but people who criticize MMO are not doing it out of spite, it's a forum and people come and express their opinion about the game. Vain? Yes, who isn't on the internet...
My addiction History:
>> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
>> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
>> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
By community you mean wow-esque garbage on general chat?
WTS xxx
I had your mom
how do I move
PC on XXX
CHUCK NORRISSSSSSSSS
Does the above, scintillating, "community chat" make you feel warm inside, and the lack of this crap make you feel alone in the WAR world?
You are comparing a solo-guild oriented game with a TEAM-REALM based game?
Lets put down our "what WoW did" hat for a moment and just think about what Warhammer might get from a better chat system.
Anything to help communicate/request reinforcements for a battle under way would be nice. Something other than having to check your map nonstop for past battle action markers and hope there is something going on. I think more people would do world PvP if there was some sort of communication going on. Not running out to a battle mark only to find yourself wicked outnumbered or it is just a small group messing around.
How about people requesting help for PQ's, quests or ever starting some RvR raiding parties? The open group system is nice, but it isn't anywhere near as productive as a good LFG system or even global chat. There is a reason why so many PQs sit empty.
Hell I would even be happy to see some WTS chat since the auction house is almost barren of activety.
Right now there just is no way to effectively communicate with your realm to organize/motivate most things. Remember, this isn't some small group or guild based game. This is a REALM based game that would greatly benefit from realm chatter.
Along all the "subjective" issues you listed, only one is, that's awe factor; for any other comparing games' features to one another is complete objectivity.
Also, while the must be people like you describe looking for a new first time that will last them for years, some other just expect a quality entertainment which will hold their attention for longer than a week.
In the console world you can have games that suck and are recognized as sucky by the pres (DMC2), and others in the same genre but with different mechanics which shines like diamonds (GoD of war 2).
MMos are no different: a few are/were good, most blows, and all your babling about players being jaded do not save most MMOs, and in particular WAR, from comparative criticism to other MMOS.
Today in 2008, i don't play WoW, yet i'll never say this game sucks: it's still a brilliant piece of gameplay. But today also, i play WAR, and i stand by what i said: it's not a good game, and it has nothing to do with me being jaded, it's just an opinion based on past experience.
I know it's hard to understand, but people who criticize MMO are not doing it out of spite, it's a forum and people come and express their opinion about the game. Vain? Yes, who isn't on the internet...
reread the red part. I am fully aware of the meaning of the word subjective.
Mind how you go.
By community you mean wow-esque garbage on general chat?
WTS xxx
I had your mom
how do I move
PC on XXX
CHUCK NORRISSSSSSSSS
Does the above, scintillating, "community chat" make you feel warm inside, and the lack of this crap make you feel alone in the WAR world?
You are comparing a solo-guild oriented game with a TEAM-REALM based game?
Lets put down our "what WoW did" hat for a moment and just think about what Warhammer might get from a better chat system.
Anything to help communicate/request reinforcements for a battle under way would be nice. Something other than having to check your map nonstop for past battle action markers and hope there is something going on. I think more people would do world PvP if there was some sort of communication going on. Not running out to a battle mark only to find yourself wicked outnumbered or it is just a small group messing around.
How about people requesting help for PQ's, quests or ever starting some RvR raiding parties? The open group system is nice, but it isn't anywhere near as productive as a good LFG system or even global chat. There is a reason why so many PQs sit empty.
Hell I would even be happy to see some WTS chat since the auction house is almost barren of activety.
Right now there just is no way to effectively communicate with your realm to organize/motivate most things. Remember, this isn't some small group or guild based game. This is a REALM based game that would greatly benefit from realm chatter.
Some nice points.
I have no opinion on the subject either way, but, are you seriously saying in four years of playing WoW you have never seen a single 'WTS' in general? Do you play more than 5 seconds per day?
Actually, yes. I play for about 5 HOURS a day. Maybe I'm so busy actually DOING things in game, that I don't notice? O.o I suppose that's possible. I have maxed level crafters of every profession except blacksmithing and engineering, 4 level 70s, a level 63, 55, 44, and a few "baby alts." Perhaps I just have enough to "do" that I don't stare at general chat as much as other people do. Or maybe our server is just a little more mature population-wise. That is actually possible. There do seem to be a LOT of "adult only" guilds on this server, in comparison to the few others I have played on.
Great. Now you have me wanting to log in and just go from zone to zone watching general chat. /sigh
Maybe he meant /trade chat, er I meant /drama chat. I haven't played WoW for 4 years, more like less than 4 months and I have seen WTS in general chat.
People play WAR for the wrong reasons. When I fire up CoD4 on my PS3, I can enjoy myself for an hour, maybe two. Same goes for WAR. I get in there, fight other players and enjoy myself for an hour, maybe two.
What's wrong with that? Do we really need a game we can play for 12 hours a day and still be "mentally challenging"?
ONE BIG difference. COD4 is FREE to play.
In WAR you pay to play.
MMORPG's are created to live in a world with your character, not shoot or fight mindlessly without a purpose.
It's good to see one of the die hard supporters admit he can't play the thing for more than an hour ... after 2 weeks.
I said it would be boring to play it after 1 week. We see the results now.
War is a GIANT step back in every respect of what a MMORPG should be AND it is clunky, lagyy and badly designed both in server capacity, PVE challenge AND RvR wise.
If this thing is still on Xfire's top 10 within 8 weeks I'll give you 100 Euro.
Every copy sold of War is free publicity for WotLK. And every day it shows more and more.
I disagree on basically......everything you just said. I choose to pay for it. I don't mind paying for it. I also do not feel compelled to explain why.
I don't LIVE in a game world. I'm not out of touch with reality. I seek fun, enjoyment, not a 2nd life (pun intended).
Ive played it for a good 9 months now. I'm still not bored. Tastes differ.
Don't even start telling me about bad design. I see too much wanna-be programmers claiming to be know-it-alls around here. But I'm not saying it couldn't improve either. I just see it differently.
XFire means squat regarding "top 10's" and "most played". I couldn't care less either, since I don't use XFire.
And the whole "every copy of WAR sold...." crap reminds me of Bodypass. Yet it still doesn't make any sense to me.
EDIT: Hahaha. I just realized you ARE bodypass. Crap, I promised myself never to reply to you again. Ah well.
So as you have stated, WoW chat ( in this caes ) is full of tripe, as you make liberal use of the /ignore feature. I presume that you are making the hint that you have put me on /ignore good for you old chap, good for you.
Anyway this simply a flame fest, so /wave
Again, your maturity level is astounding. Furthermore, I'm not an "old chap," I'm a 45 year old mother of three grown children. "Ol' chap" means "old boy" or "old fellow," of which I am neither. (Okay, I'll cop to the OLD part. But I'm not a "boy" or "fellow.")
And, in case you had not noticed in your VAST gaming career, all MMOs have a /ignore feature. It would actually be rather nice if enough people in Warhammer actually SPOKE requiring you to have to USE it once-in-a-while. The OPs original post had more to do with the lack of a sense of community in the game.
I believe in the year that I've been a member of this forum site, I have put ONE person on ignore. I'm not so immature as to have to do that just because someone disagrees with me.
I love when someone runs out of points to argue and simply dismisses a thread with a /wave type comment. /rollseyes
1. Old chap is simply a saying, a colloquiallism along the lines of Old Bean, Me old China ( china plate - mate ).
2. No need to try to belittle me by casting aspersions on my VAST gaming career. You cried immature! at me earlier, so
.
3. I /waved to try and prevent a tit-for-tat reply session which degenerates into a flame war.
4. My main objection to many of the posts on this forum, not just WAR, is that they are often posted by ex MMO fans. I say ex, because they are bored of MMOS, their posts often complain about subjective issues aswell as lack of originality, lack of sandbox openness, and lastly, failing to give them that awe factor. No consideration is given to what the games design brief was. No concession that this particular game might simply not be for them, no it HAS to be flawed! IT WILL FAIL!
These people come here and berate the developers and current fans. They label the games "crap" "subpar", "boring", "copy of [insert MMO]". They complain about things that actually make the game an MMORPG i.e character development, skills and abilities, RPG style combat, with comments like "it wasn't revolutionary, it's the same old thing". No consideration about GENRE. I could write a whole post on the failure of understanding people have with GENRE.
Some posters feel a sense of satisfaction, I'm sure of it, in rubbishing in 5 minutes a game that has taken a team of dozens, tens of millions of dollars and 4 or 5 years of hard work to make.It's like watching the opening Paramount sequence at the cinema, walking out and telling the people queuing "Don't bother, the film was crap".Good for them, it's their prerogative, but it's still jibberish in my eyes.
For the posters I am talking about, nothing will rekindle their awe of their first MMORPG gaming experience - nothing. That does not make every subsequent game actually rubbish. I dislike them peddaling their bile here, in some vain attempt to persuade others to share their appathy.
I am a firm believer in people forming their own opinions on these games. I too am writing this in vain, I know that. I don't care if you like or dislike the game, it's the pointless finger pointing at inane subjective "faults" that irk me enough to reply to the posts.
Maybe a new discussion forum is in order. A place for Ex fans to hang out and complain till their hearts sing. It's been 11 years since UO launched. I think it's logical that there are a growing number of "bored" MMO fans out there, but don't blame the industry.
You guys ask too much for a box fee of £30 or $50 and £8 / $14 a month some of expect a virtual life to replace your own real life and each new MMORPG to hold your attention for YEARS. I think we get great value for money.
Good day.
Fair enough and well said.
I may not agree with absolutely everything you say, but THAT was a very good post. Thank you for not writing off the thread.
Furthermore, I apologize for being snarky with the "VAST" gaming career comment.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I never played a Mythic game until now. I am having fun in Warhammer and have been playing MMO's since 1998.
There are some excellent posts in this thread and we should not be upset about what some other players type. After CB testing EQ and then playing it for 3 years most other mmo's were not the same.
To all the WOW haters. Blizzard made a brilliant product and it was fun and immersive for the time I played it.
The chat in Warhammer quite frankly is terrible. Mark made a post at warhammer alliance stating just that. Mythic is asking for player input if you want to head there.
There are some bugs in the game and the combat is clunky at times. The main reason I am staying with it is the fun I am having. We do have RVR and take keeps.
The biggest problem in my eyes right now is alot of folks are playing hardcore only to find the servers in teirs 3 and 4 empty.
To all players here, I actually find it refreshing a dev actually will admit and make a public post . That speaks alot to me currently as the game develops. If it is "all blow and no go," I will be back here letting the gaming community know.
dude ur right im going back to WoW.
I agree with this and what Omega3 said on the last page.
A lot of us aren't jaded, we just want originality and not retread.
I think the reason why people can't seem to understand is because, despite what they may think, they haven't played enough games to know the difference between a new idea and an old one.
EDIT: Actually thinking about it maybe that does make me a bit jaded from the perspective of the people I am refering to, however this does not equal mmo burnout. It is still no excuse for not making their own original gameplay, others can do it so should they.
The interesting thing about War at this moment,is that it appears to be fixable, if only the devs would break with MMO Dev tradition and history and actaully make the right choices and implementations.
If they follow the tradition of listening to the bois blowing smoke up there backside telling them and the other players the game is fine,they are gonna end up with yet another far underperforming title that they have to offer bribes, and beg, and apoligize for in attempts to get a respectivable sized customer base.
They need to listen to the critical posts most of all.Among those are the people who want to like the game, who want tp pay the monthy fees but are so dissapointed yet agian, they cant bring themselves to even log in and use their remaining time.
The bois will be there to blow the devs and the game kisses even if they take a dump in their cereal every morning.
The larger numbers, the numbers that include the majority of the prospective customer base, are the ones they need to make happy.
Wrong... there WAS a golden age of MMO's. It was when MMO's still had soul and were made challenging and immersive. Now it's just theme park rides and no soul, sorry like that smart chick said War is an MMOPVPG not a true MMORPG. Sry try again
WAR is not one of the best MMO's today. If you're looking for that, you go play EVE Online, or some other game that leads the pack in innovation.
He shouldn't be bored playing an MMORPG, that's the thing. The game should be fun and keep the player interested day after day.
For the most part, he is right. The game simply has no soul, no spark. It's an interesting game, but I feel no need to read my Tome of Knowledge entires, nor do I feel the need to even glance at what a quest giver says. The biggest thing that bothers me is that no one talks or socializes, but that is the way it is today in most MMORPG's. I'm not looking for a chat room, but often times I will be in a party for a public quest and no words will be said at all. Not even a "welcome to the group". The MMORPG has become a single player game, and it mind's well be one until developers realize the potential for the genre.
Now that may sound strange to you, but maybe a lot of people dont know what "AoE Grinding" is?
I guess a lot of people played WoW and made their high level char with solo quest and never did a nice AOE group with 1) tank 2) healer 3) damage dealer 4)debuffer.
and its difficult for some people to admit if they dont know something, they would have to admit it. and maybe they just dont answer then
COULD be a reason...
God the OP is such a baby. It's a team game. People need to put themselves out there more and organize parties, and communicate.
It takes coordination to take a keep, or run a PQ. In FFXI people used to sit at the entrance to zones and shout for Parties all day. You couldn't even level without a good party. When have you ever tried shouting for group at a PQ or Warcamp? My guess is people are crying without ever having even TRIED organizing anything.
In Tier 4 you can't capture a city without taking control of 2 of the 3 Tiers. Holding Keeps is a big part of that, and once we have people at endgame trying to take cities, we're going to need more World RvR. Right now, the game is still maturing.
It's a good system, but you have to give it time. Two freaking weeks of a full on PvP leveling system + decent quests, good guild features, and a well-balanced class setup and people are STILL crying. Just shutup already.
The game is brilliant, OP is simply not looking hard enough. I have no problem ever to find or make a group in any level range. Oh well , back to console games for you.
I dont think they care about surviving long term. Its obvious in how they made the game or should I say Halfway made the game.
Agreed 100%.
WAR is the classic modern thinking that is killing modern MMORPGs. Most of the current gen of players don't care though, because, to be frank, they never saw how good these games can be when they have a soul. The only thing that has ever made them good is the players, but they don't seem to get it.
We live in the age of the MMO arcade game, and thats a shame to me personally.
Instead of having golden eggs for the next ten years, they all seem happy to just settle for killing the goose for one big dinner.
So Sad.
I have to admit that I agree with the OP 100% even though I dont actually want to. I really want to like this game a lot. The terrible thing is that it actually is the best mmo available at the moment in my opinion and yet I cant deny the fact that its......well.....crap.
I have been playing it for the past week on and off and I was enjoying it. Admittedly the PvE quests are just boring brainless drivel (why do they come out with such stupid shit for these quests) but the PvP aspects have been fun. However the game just doesnt seem to take advantage of this aspect. Maybe its great on other servers but my server isnt a low population server and yet I rarely seem to encounter any interesting conflict in the open RvR areas. There just doesnt seem to be any particular incentive to go anywhere in particular. Oh so Order have taken a tower.......so what? Just take it back some other time when and if someone can be bothered. People are just too busy gaining exp and renown points.
I agree with other people that have said the scenarios actually detract from the rest of the game. Its as though the game is trying to cater to too many styles of play. Its either instant gratification mini battlegrounds, Open world PvP or boring old PvE. If the scenarios were not in the game then the PvE quests could be mixed up more with the open RvR content. That way even on lower population servers the players would be pushed into situations where they encountered each other more often. There would be some real reasons to slaughter your enemy. Instead it feels like a very boring PvE game to me that has fun PvP elements added onto it.
I have only played the game for a week though and have yet to progress beyond the first tier (I'm only level 10 and I experimented with some other classes) so maybe everything changes more later on but so far I have been doing lots of PvE and PQ's interspersed with the occasional scenario when its available (people only seem to ever play in bloody Nordenwatch) to break up the monotony. The RvR areas were really empty whenever I went in them.
I dunno I'm gonna give it another go tommorow and see if something sparks my interest in it but to be honest I think my initial "Ooooh this actually good fun" impression is beginning to wear off a bit. Its just too easy to see through the game and see how basic and simplistic it actually is. I think I just need something with a lot more depth to hold my attention. The OP is right. This really is an MMo arcade game. I hope hope the future holds something more interesting.......a LOT more interesting. I hope Earthrise is good.
So as you have stated, WoW chat ( in this caes ) is full of tripe, as you make liberal use of the /ignore feature. I presume that you are making the hint that you have put me on /ignore good for you old chap, good for you.
Anyway this simply a flame fest, so /wave
Again, your maturity level is astounding. Furthermore, I'm not an "old chap," I'm a 45 year old mother of three grown children. "Ol' chap" means "old boy" or "old fellow," of which I am neither. (Okay, I'll cop to the OLD part. But I'm not a "boy" or "fellow.")
And, in case you had not noticed in your VAST gaming career, all MMOs have a /ignore feature. It would actually be rather nice if enough people in Warhammer actually SPOKE requiring you to have to USE it once-in-a-while. The OPs original post had more to do with the lack of a sense of community in the game.
I believe in the year that I've been a member of this forum site, I have put ONE person on ignore. I'm not so immature as to have to do that just because someone disagrees with me.
I love when someone runs out of points to argue and simply dismisses a thread with a /wave type comment. /rollseyes
1. Old chap is simply a saying, a colloquiallism along the lines of Old Bean, Me old China ( china plate - mate ).
2. No need to try to belittle me by casting aspersions on my VAST gaming career. You cried immature! at me earlier, so
.
3. I /waved to try and prevent a tit-for-tat reply session which degenerates into a flame war.
4. My main objection to many of the posts on this forum, not just WAR, is that they are often posted by ex MMO fans. I say ex, because they are bored of MMOS, their posts often complain about subjective issues aswell as lack of originality, lack of sandbox openness, and lastly, failing to give them that awe factor. No consideration is given to what the games design brief was. No concession that this particular game might simply not be for them, no it HAS to be flawed! IT WILL FAIL!
These people come here and berate the developers and current fans. They label the games "crap" "subpar", "boring", "copy of [insert MMO]". They complain about things that actually make the game an MMORPG i.e character development, skills and abilities, RPG style combat, with comments like "it wasn't revolutionary, it's the same old thing". No consideration about GENRE. I could write a whole post on the failure of understanding people have with GENRE.
Some posters feel a sense of satisfaction, I'm sure of it, in rubbishing in 5 minutes a game that has taken a team of dozens, tens of millions of dollars and 4 or 5 years of hard work to make.It's like watching the opening Paramount sequence at the cinema, walking out and telling the people queuing "Don't bother, the film was crap".Good for them, it's their prerogative, but it's still jibberish in my eyes.
For the posters I am talking about, nothing will rekindle their awe of their first MMORPG gaming experience - nothing. That does not make every subsequent game actually rubbish. I dislike them peddaling their bile here, in some vain attempt to persuade others to share their appathy.
I am a firm believer in people forming their own opinions on these games. I too am writing this in vain, I know that. I don't care if you like or dislike the game, it's the pointless finger pointing at inane subjective "faults" that irk me enough to reply to the posts.
Maybe a new discussion forum is in order. A place for Ex fans to hang out and complain till their hearts sing. It's been 11 years since UO launched. I think it's logical that there are a growing number of "bored" MMO fans out there, but don't blame the industry.
You guys ask too much for a box fee of £30 or $50 and £8 / $14 a month some of expect a virtual life to replace your own real life and each new MMORPG to hold your attention for YEARS. I think we get great value for money.
Good day.
Fair enough and well said.
I may not agree with absolutely everything you say, but THAT was a very good post. Thank you for not writing off the thread.
Furthermore, I apologize for being snarky with the "VAST" gaming career comment.
Ditto, sorry for any bitchiness, perceived or otherwise.
I agree with the poster but only half-assedly. The lack of soul goes both ways. If people aren't talking to you, think High School social ethics. Stay away from the freaky people or the people you hate. Ta-da.
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Sniper is another term for unorthodox surgeon.
I think your comments are dead on. I only blame myself, however, because I sort of had an idea, before I bought the game, of what it might turn out to be.