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Can only go up from here
Inzra
Member Posts: 679
I reckon this would be a good time to buy some stocks, I don't really see anything that could make it plunge any lower. Except the index going down on overall, but I think AoC would be stabilized by now.
My impression is that there was alot of confused people that fell into a hype, and those people would probably not have played AoC anyway if they had been a bit more determined.
So I don't really feel sorry for all the haters that left, - everyone had the chance to wait for reviews and let the game "mature" before trying it.
Anyway, seems like the playerbase is more "fit" to the game now, and the vision of the game and the developers.
Comments
Can't get any lower ? lol
Funcom is bankrupt. They will have to finance short term outstanding loans for millions of dollars in the coming months. And if you havn't noticed it - we are in middle of financeal crysis.
Its over. Its only a question of time now. I think the playerbase of 10k ppl fits the game - but it doesnt fit the debts. Its that simple.
AoC's populations have become much more stable certainly however that doesn't mean there isn't still significant risk buying stock.
It's very likely indeed that funcom are losing millions per month and with 20 million in short term debt to pay there is a real worry ahead of funcom and you could lose a significant ammount maybe even all of the money you invest.
Of course that doesn't mean you won't make money buying funcom stock, the stock price already reflects the fact people think the company is in trouble and so if the financial report out in November isn't as bad as expected the stock could rise quite significantly.
If it were easy to know what it was going to do we'd all be making money but it's not I personally think you are taking a significant even big risk buying funcom stocks at this point.
While there probably is a pretty direct relationship between funcom stock and it's active subscribers.. stability in active subscribers does not mean the company is 'stable'. When funcom sold 800,000 boxes and had 415,000 subscribers it still lost $8,000,000 AOC has not sold anywhere near that many boxes this quarter and probably has less than 100,000 subscribers... is there any way the company is going to be profitable? Funcom took on a lot of short term debt in February in order to launch AOC and they aren't making any profits to be able to repay that loan. Each month they are paying out more than they bring in, and there isn't enough money in the bank to pay their own bills until January, let alone repay the 25M they borrowed.
Funcom can go much lower.. probably not until Nov 15 (next earning report).. but you can bet it will go substantially lower on that day.. it will be EASY to lose half your money on that day.
There simply is no upside in Funcom the company. At this level, you could buy the stock on a bad day and sell on a good day and make a profit if you time it right.. but if you buy now, there is no way you should hold it until Nov 15th.
Bankruptcy would be considered down, which they are getting closer to filing every day. This game has done nothing but loose and with the current feelings most people have for Funcom it will be a long time before they can turn this disaster around and start regain any faith from the community.
I like the $4.36 stock price and cant wait till next week when its $3.36 or the week after when its $2.36 lol. Got to admit it though Funcom is the best when its comes to failure.
Azrile in funcom's last report they said they won't be giving subscription numbers again and we all knew that but it also says they won't be giving detailed financial guideance again, do you know what that means for the november report? what information are they required to share with their investors by law?
Here is the quote
Funcom will, as previously stated, for marketing and
competitive reasons in the future not on a regular
basis disclose information about subscriber
numbers and also not provide detailed financial
guidance. Due to Q208 being the first quarter
following the introduction of the Age of Conan
game, the Company has decided to provide such
information.
On Nov 15, Funcom MUST report total revenues, total expenses, asset, liabilities, total debt, total cashflow for the quarter ending Sept 30 (3rd quarter). Basically all the big number any company must report. They do not have to give subscriber or player retention numbers or any other number that is really specific to an industry. I once owned a restaurant stock and I knew it was time to sell when they stopped releasing SSS numbers ( same store sales). There are certain numbers that companies in good shape will release even though they aren't forced to and companies in bad shape will stop releasing.
Now.. on top of that.. some companies do give 'guidance' about the quarter they are currently in. Because the 3rd quarter numbers are being announced halfway throught the 4th quarter.. the company has a pretty good idea how things are going. The official number are based on Sept 30, but a company will sometimes say " we expect revenues to slightly increase in the 4th quarter by 5%" etc. They can do this because they basically have half the numbers already (Oct 1 to Nov 15).
When they announced the second quarter numbers on August 15, the did give guidance for the 3rd quarter.
"Revenue in the third quarter of 2008 (Q308) is
expected to be between TUSD 16.000 and TUSD
20.000. The dominating revenue stream will be
subscription revenues for the Age of Conan game." ( 16M and 20M)
So basically, somewhere between June 30 and Aug15, someone at Funcom took a guess at how revenues will look on Sept 30(released nov 15) and included that guess in there 2nd quarter report.
The comment you quoted simply means that on November 15th, nobody at Funcom is going to be giving a guess about Dec 30 numbers.
It's really a cat-n-mouse game that companies play with analysts. Stock analysts try to guess the numbers that a company will release, and the companies give them guidance so the analysts aren't disappointed. A company can be very profitable and still 'miss expectations' and cause their stock to plummet when they release their numbers. Companies try to give guidance as much as they can so that the analysts aren't way off. Companies tend to be either conservative or aggressive with their guidance though, which you only learn by following a company for awhile. In the early 90's, I played a lot in Microsoft and they gave really detailed guidance.. but they were really really convservative.. it got to the point where you could almost predict that MS was going to do about 10% better than their guidance. Other companies like Intel had a habit of barely hitting their guidance and occassionally missing by a small amount.
That said.. there is no way Funcom should ever have given guidance.. they are a one-trick-pony and that pony had not been tested at all... their 'guidance' was just wild speculation. They said that the majority of their income would be from AOC subscriptions, yet they had only 1 or 2 renewal cycles when that guidance was announced. The 16M-20M number they predicted was based on AOC having 400k subscribers right up until Sept 30. I've posted before, but I think 10M is more likely as their revenue number.
http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=funcom.ol
4.35 NOK Can anyone say 20 oz Bottle of Coke price and Shannia was right.
But on the other side,
http://finance.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:GM
General Motors is trading at $4.89 US a share, so Funcom might be in a lot better shape than we give it credit for. LOL
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Thanks Azrile
While there probably is a pretty direct relationship between funcom stock and it's active subscribers.. stability in active subscribers does not mean the company is 'stable'. When funcom sold 800,000 boxes and had 415,000 subscribers it still lost $8,000,000 AOC has not sold anywhere near that many boxes this quarter and probably has less than 100,000 subscribers... is there any way the company is going to be profitable? Funcom took on a lot of short term debt in February in order to launch AOC and they aren't making any profits to be able to repay that loan. Each month they are paying out more than they bring in, and there isn't enough money in the bank to pay their own bills until January, let alone repay the 25M they borrowed.
Funcom can go much lower.. probably not until Nov 15 (next earning report).. but you can bet it will go substantially lower on that day.. it will be EASY to lose half your money on that day.
There simply is no upside in Funcom the company. At this level, you could buy the stock on a bad day and sell on a good day and make a profit if you time it right.. but if you buy now, there is no way you should hold it until Nov 15th.
Azrile.. If you gonna serve us a s finanzial guru in this forum at least take the time to read up. -5.7 for Q2. Revenue expected for Q3 16-20 Mill USD. Net is expected to be 0ish. OP post something which is in line with what other major analysts say. I don't know if that was luck or what, but AOC is gaining population now and things are looking up. Seems like some people out there captured that already (that is not bad because investors are normally quite slow).
To the other guy above. A company goes bankrupt when they can't pay their bills (Stockprice is irrelevant in this regard). FC has 32 Mill USD on the bankaccount, so explain to me when expected net is 0 (meaning there will still be 32 Mill USD on FC's bankaccount after Q3) how it can go bankrupt. You gatt to drop this stock BS because you are making a fool out of yourself.
Who on earth belives after losing 6 mill last quarter that they are going to break even this one? and at least this quarter they have the benefit of decent sub numbers on July and August. Next quarter they won't have that not to mention there is the 20 mill short term debt to repay at some point.
I don't know if you are really interested or if you just want to troll nonsens. Anyway I gonna give you the benefit of the doubt. First of all it's all in the Q2 report but of course you want it the easy way, which is someone just telling it to you. 0 profit for Q3 was "guided" in last Q2 report. When something is guided it is normally very much on as the guiding is given most of the time half way into Q3 (In other words they have a very good idea). Those numbers are very conservative. Next thing to adress is your question on how -5.7 USD can get to 0. Q2 revenue nearly holds no subscription money. People just started paying subs 10 days before end of Q2, Another thing is the extraordinary cost associated with an launch (did you think all those adds were for free... No.. they cost a shit load of money). So all in all Q3 is 0 cause there have been subs paid in three months and there are not much cost associated with marketing. Hope that help, and if you want even more information you can go to Oslo Stock exchange or AoC official forums and download the report. I don't really mind discussing this as it is somewhat related to my profession, but please at least read up a bit.
Last thing a loan is not something that is kept on the side of the the books of course, meaning expected profit is 0 when loan termins have been paid. You also got the numbers wrong here. It's not 20 it is 12 which leave FC with a good batch of 20 Mill USD cash even if they wanted to pay everything off right away. They don't want to do that of other reasons (related to gearing), but that is something we can talk of if you read up. I somewhat agree with OP, even though the world markets are in full regression and cave in big time FC has high potential now that AoC seem to have reached a stable situation. Reason is simple. If you multiply the amount of FC stocks (52 000 000) on the market with the price of each stock, you can very easily see that FC is almost priced to the amount of cash they have in the bank. All in all that mean any positive trend in AoC any at all, will go right in the stockholders pocket in form of increased value of company. Xfire show a very modest activity increase for AoC. If that modest activity increase continues over the next weeks. OP will probably make 20% profitt on this stock easily in a market where every body else are loosing money bigtime.
Sorry for wall of text stun
I don't know if you are really interested or if you just want to troll nonsens. Anyway I gonna give you the benefit of the doubt. First of all it's all in the Q2 report but of course you want it the easy way, which is someone just telling it to you. 0 profit for Q3 was "guided" in last Q2 report.
I've read the Q2 financial report multiple times thank you and a) I don't and never have belived they were going to meet their expected revenue targets and b) didn't think they had said what the expected profit/loss was going to be. I assumed you were saying an anaylst had said they were going to break even. Having just re-read the report for probably the 5th time since it was released I still do not see them to giving guidence for their expected profit/loss, maybe I'm missing something and in that case I apolgise. Please show me where in the report this is said. Honestly even if they did say it I don't belive them.
When something is guided it is normally very much on as the guiding is given most of the time half way into Q3 (In other words they have a very good idea). Those numbers are very conservative. Next thing to adress is your question on how -5.7 USD can get to 0. Q2 revenue nearly holds no subscription money. People just started paying subs 10 days before end of Q2, Another thing is the extraordinary cost associated with an launch (did you think all those adds were for free... No.. they cost a shit load of money). So all in all Q3 is 0 cause there have been subs paid in three months and there are not much cost associated with marketing. Hope that help, and if you want even more information you can go to Oslo Stock exchange or AoC official forums and download the report. I don't really mind discussing this as it is somewhat related to my profession, but please at least read up a bit.
They should have had a very good idea for predicting their revenue but I'm afraid I think funcom were being very short sighted and honestly were in denial about the subs they were losing at that point.
I'm fully aware that they costs will be lower in q3 than q2 but then I think their revenue will also be lower, I think they are still spending plenty of money on advertiseing to be honest we just had an entire prime time tv show based on them.
Again I've read the report, it's availible on the funcom site. They actually lost 7 million after tax
Last thing a loan is not something that is kept on the side of the the books of course, meaning expected profit is 0 when loan termins have been paid. You also got the numbers wrong here. It's not 20 it is 12 which leave FC with a good batch of 20 Mill USD cash even if they wanted to pay everything off right away. They don't want to do that of other reasons (related to gearing), but that is something we can talk of if you read up. I somewhat agree with OP, even though the world markets are in full regression and cave in big time FC has high potential now that AoC seem to have reached a stable situation. Reason is simple. If you multiply the amount of FC stocks (52 000 000) on the market with the price of each stock, you can very easily see that FC is almost priced to the amount of cash they have in the bank. All in all that mean any positive trend in AoC any at all, will go right in the stockholders pocket in form of increased value of company. Xfire show a very modest activity increase for AoC. If that modest activity increase continues over the next weeks. OP will probably make 20% profitt on this stock easily in a market where every body else are loosing money bigtime.
Sorry for wall of text stun
Maybe I'm reading the report wrong and again if so I appologise, but if not it seems you need to take you're own advice, you are acusing me of being ignorant as far as I can see are trying to correct me with incorrect numbers, their short term liabilities are listed at over 21 million.
While there probably is a pretty direct relationship between funcom stock and it's active subscribers.. stability in active subscribers does not mean the company is 'stable'. When funcom sold 800,000 boxes and had 415,000 subscribers it still lost $8,000,000 AOC has not sold anywhere near that many boxes this quarter and probably has less than 100,000 subscribers... is there any way the company is going to be profitable? Funcom took on a lot of short term debt in February in order to launch AOC and they aren't making any profits to be able to repay that loan. Each month they are paying out more than they bring in, and there isn't enough money in the bank to pay their own bills until January, let alone repay the 25M they borrowed.
Funcom can go much lower.. probably not until Nov 15 (next earning report).. but you can bet it will go substantially lower on that day.. it will be EASY to lose half your money on that day.
There simply is no upside in Funcom the company. At this level, you could buy the stock on a bad day and sell on a good day and make a profit if you time it right.. but if you buy now, there is no way you should hold it until Nov 15th.
Azrile.. If you gonna serve us a s finanzial guru in this forum at least take the time to read up. -5.7 for Q2. Revenue expected for Q3 16-20 Mill USD. Net is expected to be 0ish. OP post something which is in line with what other major analysts say. I don't know if that was luck or what, but AOC is gaining population now and things are looking up. Seems like some people out there captured that already (that is not bad because investors are normally quite slow).
To the other guy above. A company goes bankrupt when they can't pay their bills (Stockprice is irrelevant in this regard). FC has 32 Mill USD on the bankaccount, so explain to me when expected net is 0 (meaning there will still be 32 Mill USD on FC's bankaccount after Q3) how it can go bankrupt. You gatt to drop this stock BS because you are making a fool out of yourself.
Do you even believe the nonsense you are typing? Last time I checked, paying taxes was part of a business, you are quoting the pretax loss they endured. The real loss includes taxes.
Yes, they WERE expecting 16M in revenues.. but that was back when they had 415k subscribers and is based on maintaining that number, which they clearly have not done. And NOWHERE did they say that even with 16M in revenues that they would break even ( 0ish LOL). They gave no guidance at all about profitability. And furthermore, to show your lack of accounting principles... it is very easy for a company to eat through their cash assets and be profitable. For instance, in the last quarter, Funcom ONLY had an 8M loss, but their cashflow was -16M. Cash assets is directly related to cashflow and isn't very closely related to profitability.
I don't see where you are saying AOC is gaining population. If you are using xfire, then yes, they gained 1% over the past week, but at the same time you have to point out that xfire also shows them dropping 90% from their 415k number. So again, if you want to use Xfire, then don't simply say the gained population..be factual and say they went from 45k subscribers to 46k subscribers over the past week. You can't point to the small positive gain without highlighting the huge drop from June.. since they are both measured from the same metric.
Actually, you clearly have no clue about accounting. A company does not go into bankruptcy when they can't pay their bills, they go into bankruptcy because they can't pay their DEBT. There is a huge difference. A company that can't pay their bills simply goes out of business. At this point it is a toss-up on whether Funcom goes into Bankruptcy or goes out of business first. The cash they have in the bank will cover about 4 more months of their operating loss (they go out of business).. the question is.. will the banks that they owe the debt to force them into bankruptcy first.
Funcom does not have 32M in the bank. On June 30th, they had 32M in the bank. They also spent 16M more in the 2nd quarter than they brought in... so that 32M is being drained very quickly. This is one of the big numbers I'll be looking for in the Nov 15 report. I'm guessing that number will be down to about 20M.. and it is meaningful if the cash assets drop below the short-term debt. (22M currently).
Just please stop trying to use any type of financial analysis. If you don't understand the basics of cash flow, cash assets and bankruptcy, you clearly should not be lecturing anyone on the subject. Please stick to your normal threads of getting excited every time AOC changes the price of mounts.. thats about as deep as you should get into financial analysis.
While there probably is a pretty direct relationship between funcom stock and it's active subscribers.. stability in active subscribers does not mean the company is 'stable'. When funcom sold 800,000 boxes and had 415,000 subscribers it still lost $8,000,000 AOC has not sold anywhere near that many boxes this quarter and probably has less than 100,000 subscribers... is there any way the company is going to be profitable? Funcom took on a lot of short term debt in February in order to launch AOC and they aren't making any profits to be able to repay that loan. Each month they are paying out more than they bring in, and there isn't enough money in the bank to pay their own bills until January, let alone repay the 25M they borrowed.
Funcom can go much lower.. probably not until Nov 15 (next earning report).. but you can bet it will go substantially lower on that day.. it will be EASY to lose half your money on that day.
There simply is no upside in Funcom the company. At this level, you could buy the stock on a bad day and sell on a good day and make a profit if you time it right.. but if you buy now, there is no way you should hold it until Nov 15th.
Azrile.. If you gonna serve us a s finanzial guru in this forum at least take the time to read up. -5.7 for Q2. Revenue expected for Q3 16-20 Mill USD. Net is expected to be 0ish. OP post something which is in line with what other major analysts say. I don't know if that was luck or what, but AOC is gaining population now and things are looking up. Seems like some people out there captured that already (that is not bad because investors are normally quite slow).
To the other guy above. A company goes bankrupt when they can't pay their bills (Stockprice is irrelevant in this regard). FC has 32 Mill USD on the bankaccount, so explain to me when expected net is 0 (meaning there will still be 32 Mill USD on FC's bankaccount after Q3) how it can go bankrupt. You gatt to drop this stock BS because you are making a fool out of yourself.
Do you even believe the nonsense you are typing? Last time I checked, paying taxes was part of a business, you are quoting the pretax loss they endured. The real loss includes taxes.
Yes, they WERE expecting 16M in revenues.. but that was back when they had 415k subscribers and is based on maintaining that number, which they clearly have not done. And NOWHERE did they say that even with 16M in revenues that they would break even ( 0ish LOL). They gave no guidance at all about profitability. And furthermore, to show your lack of accounting principles... it is very easy for a company to eat through their cash assets and be profitable. For instance, in the last quarter, Funcom ONLY had an 8M loss, but their cashflow was -16M. Cash assets is directly related to cashflow and isn't very closely related to profitability.
I don't see where you are saying AOC is gaining population. If you are using xfire, then yes, they gained 1% over the past week, but at the same time you have to point out that xfire also shows them dropping 90% from their 415k number. So again, if you want to use Xfire, then don't simply say the gained population..be factual and say they went from 45k subscribers to 46k subscribers over the past week. You can't point to the small positive gain without highlighting the huge drop from June.. since they are both measured from the same metric.
Actually, you clearly have no clue about accounting. A company does not go into bankruptcy when they can't pay their bills, they go into bankruptcy because they can't pay their DEBT. There is a huge difference. A company that can't pay their bills simply goes out of business. At this point it is a toss-up on whether Funcom goes into Bankruptcy or goes out of business first. The cash they have in the bank will cover about 4 more months of their operating loss (they go out of business).. the question is.. will the banks that they owe the debt to force them into bankruptcy first.
Funcom does not have 32M in the bank. On June 30th, they had 32M in the bank. They also spent 16M more in the 2nd quarter than they brought in... so that 32M is being drained very quickly. This is one of the big numbers I'll be looking for in the Nov 15 report. I'm guessing that number will be down to about 20M.. and it is meaningful if the cash assets drop below the short-term debt. (22M currently).
Just please stop trying to use any type of financial analysis. If you don't understand the basics of cash flow, cash assets and bankruptcy, you clearly should not be lecturing anyone on the subject. Please stick to your normal threads of getting excited every time AOC changes the price of mounts.. thats about as deep as you should get into financial analysis.
Uhhh.. wanna discuss games.
While there probably is a pretty direct relationship between funcom stock and it's active subscribers.. stability in active subscribers does not mean the company is 'stable'. When funcom sold 800,000 boxes and had 415,000 subscribers it still lost $8,000,000 AOC has not sold anywhere near that many boxes this quarter and probably has less than 100,000 subscribers... is there any way the company is going to be profitable? Funcom took on a lot of short term debt in February in order to launch AOC and they aren't making any profits to be able to repay that loan. Each month they are paying out more than they bring in, and there isn't enough money in the bank to pay their own bills until January, let alone repay the 25M they borrowed.
Funcom can go much lower.. probably not until Nov 15 (next earning report).. but you can bet it will go substantially lower on that day.. it will be EASY to lose half your money on that day.
There simply is no upside in Funcom the company. At this level, you could buy the stock on a bad day and sell on a good day and make a profit if you time it right.. but if you buy now, there is no way you should hold it until Nov 15th.
Azrile.. If you gonna serve us a s finanzial guru in this forum at least take the time to read up. -5.7 for Q2. Revenue expected for Q3 16-20 Mill USD. Net is expected to be 0ish. OP post something which is in line with what other major analysts say. I don't know if that was luck or what, but AOC is gaining population now and things are looking up. Seems like some people out there captured that already (that is not bad because investors are normally quite slow).
To the other guy above. A company goes bankrupt when they can't pay their bills (Stockprice is irrelevant in this regard). FC has 32 Mill USD on the bankaccount, so explain to me when expected net is 0 (meaning there will still be 32 Mill USD on FC's bankaccount after Q3) how it can go bankrupt. You gatt to drop this stock BS because you are making a fool out of yourself.
Do you even believe the nonsense you are typing? Last time I checked, paying taxes was part of a business, you are quoting the pretax loss they endured. The real loss includes taxes.
Yes, they WERE expecting 16M in revenues.. but that was back when they had 415k subscribers and is based on maintaining that number, which they clearly have not done. And NOWHERE did they say that even with 16M in revenues that they would break even ( 0ish LOL). They gave no guidance at all about profitability. And furthermore, to show your lack of accounting principles... it is very easy for a company to eat through their cash assets and be profitable. For instance, in the last quarter, Funcom ONLY had an 8M loss, but their cashflow was -16M. Cash assets is directly related to cashflow and isn't very closely related to profitability.
I don't see where you are saying AOC is gaining population. If you are using xfire, then yes, they gained 1% over the past week, but at the same time you have to point out that xfire also shows them dropping 90% from their 415k number. So again, if you want to use Xfire, then don't simply say the gained population..be factual and say they went from 45k subscribers to 46k subscribers over the past week. You can't point to the small positive gain without highlighting the huge drop from June.. since they are both measured from the same metric.
Actually, you clearly have no clue about accounting. A company does not go into bankruptcy when they can't pay their bills, they go into bankruptcy because they can't pay their DEBT. There is a huge difference. A company that can't pay their bills simply goes out of business. At this point it is a toss-up on whether Funcom goes into Bankruptcy or goes out of business first. The cash they have in the bank will cover about 4 more months of their operating loss (they go out of business).. the question is.. will the banks that they owe the debt to force them into bankruptcy first.
Funcom does not have 32M in the bank. On June 30th, they had 32M in the bank. They also spent 16M more in the 2nd quarter than they brought in... so that 32M is being drained very quickly. This is one of the big numbers I'll be looking for in the Nov 15 report. I'm guessing that number will be down to about 20M.. and it is meaningful if the cash assets drop below the short-term debt. (22M currently).
Just please stop trying to use any type of financial analysis. If you don't understand the basics of cash flow, cash assets and bankruptcy, you clearly should not be lecturing anyone on the subject. Please stick to your normal threads of getting excited every time AOC changes the price of mounts.. thats about as deep as you should get into financial analysis.
My god Azrile, do you read what you are typing. You can't pay tax for a loss. You deduct tax for that. Come on... I gonna stop this conversation right now from my side because your goal is not to understand but just to continue a discussion for the sake of discussion. And by the way every number you have in your text is nonsens, you can't know what you are talkin about.
AGAIN: when there is no profit you deduct tax you are not paying tax.
To Noggy, 21 mill is wrong, you need to relook on how you get to that number. Short term liabilities are liables which either are bankcredit(over 1 to 2 years) or goods delivered from third party that still has not been paid . Long term liables are the regular loan as we know it. Regardless of this, the monthly cost to handle short term and long term loans are part of the red numbers in the Quarterly report. If profit is 0 it means loans are paid with no reduction in cash. You must mix something up. With regards to profit you have to compute that. It is dead easy. You take guided operating revenue (16-20 Mill USD by the way) and deduct operating cost. This is a number about 0 (I say about because the operating revenue is 16-20 which is an interval). Finally, operating revenue in Q2 was guided to be 11 to 12 Mill USD for FC and delivered was 13.2 which is rougly 10% over expectations so FC has integrity on the financial side of things in the market. It's just that everybody (like everybody else in the gaming industry) want to ride the Bear off and rather buy when numbers are on the table. Well, as we know investors actually use Xfire to look at trends. Xfire seem to turn around now (we will know better one week down the line), so interest might increase in nearest future.
Last,Last thing Noggy. It is not a bad thing to have loan, it's just that gearing must be safe. The company I work has massive amounts of loan but it is in proportion to the business (gearing 1.6). So is it for FunCom. FC has a healthy amount of cash which by the way enables them to execute all their big plans through out 2009. Of course FC has a huge potential for any investor. The most pessimistic analysts has a target price for this stock to 15 NOK (3x what it is now). FC will take off the moment the tiniest bit of increased population information is released from FC. Anyway my 0.02 on the topic. Use your own judgement and get in there if you want to or not. Be carefull if you are not longterm though, because the market is absolutely insane now in general. (Me myself I am so happy I have my pennies in bank at this point. And it will stay that way till US resesion is over).
So then the Q2 report does not guide 0 profit for Q3 at all so you owe me an apology. You are trying to use their guided revenue (which is going to be wrong) along with last quarters operating cost (which you have already said will be completly different this time) they don't guide q3 operating cost to come out with a number. This is a million miles away from them guideing that they are going to break even.
Secondly they have 21 million that they have to pay in the short term (2 years?) it's pretty irrelevent weather that is all loan or not.
Nothing wrong with having a loan if you are making enough to pay it back but if you have 20+ mill to pay out shortly with 30+ mill in the bank but you are losing a couple of mill a month you are going to be in trouble sharpish.
I'm not fully versed on what companies pay tax on but their report says earnings before tax minus 5.7mill earnings after tax minus 7.1 mill
back on your previous post it's completly false to suggest Q2 had almost no subscription money, AoC released 20th (I think) of May, meaning anyone who brought the game in the first 11 days (probably the majority) will have paid a months sub by 30th of June and many people paid 3 and 6 month subs during that time.
Yes, you certainly DO pay taxes even if you don't make a profit.
Here are the numbers from Funcom's second quarter report
Earnings before taxes - 5,117,000
Taxes - 2,070,000
Earnings after taxes - 7,191,000
The company lost 5M dollars, they paid 2M in taxes, so their total loss was 7.1M. Again, you clearly have no skills in accounting if you think an unprofitable company doesn't pay taxes. You think for the past 4 years that Ford and GM have not paid a dime in taxes to the US gov't just because they were unprofitable?
And your explaination of short term debt is just wrong. I don't even know how you would explain that. It's making my head explode even trying to understand your logic. Short term liabilities is DEBT. It is money owed to another company. It's honestly like you are pulling numbers from the report, throwing in some words you heard somewhere and making sentences out of it. It makes absolutely no sense at all. I would love to point out where you got tripped up.. but there really is nothing that is correct about what you said except you use real financial terms and real numbers... but the way you use those terms and numbers is just random.
And you keep repeating that Funcom said they would break even in the 3rd quarter. Funcom has never given this $0 USD that you keep quoting.
Shame it's a month away will be nice when we don't have to hear AoC has 415k subs everytime someone comments on the population.
I hope for the people still enjoying the game that the funcom financials arn't so bad that the dev team has to be drastically cut back just as the game is starting to go in the right direction.
Your care for us AoC gamers is legendary. Don't you worry, we are fine.
Still, if you want to do something about your post patch 2.0 ignoranze let me know. I have buddy key.
Azrile is correct.
Funcom is going to have a very hard time hitting that 16 million dollar Q3 revenue target despite Funcom having made up half of that money in July alone. I wouldn't be surprised if they hit around 14-15 million dollars.
There are a lot of other tax costs involved other than corporate taxes on profit. There are taxes all along the production cycle.
And by the way, as Litigator put so nicely on previous posts...if Funcom only has 14 million in revenue they are likely under 100k subscribers and will be entering the next quarter at around 6-7 million and headed ultimately for bankruptcy.
Your care for us AoC gamers is legendary. Don't you worry, we are fine.
Still, if you want to do something about your post patch 2.0 ignoranze let me know. I have buddy key.
If they turn the game around I'll come back of my own accord thanks especially if they give a free month as they intend. However I know full well that if I were to play again now I'd be fed up again in a couple of weeks, pvp xp is a small help but there is still very little to do at endgame, they need to add the tower fights, resource fights, pvp feats, a server merge because I know the server my lvl 80's are on and the city I put about 50 hours farming resources into is near dead.
You'll welcome to give me the buddy key I'll use it to do a population study to see how fair the comments are about increased populations. we can see how many of the servers have acceptable populations
I'm not at all ignorant about the state of the game thanks, I know what has improved and I know that very few of my concerns have been addressed, improved low/mid level dungeons, a few more quests etc do nothing for me.
No surprise you commented on this post though rather then the 2 prior to it, you have filled this thread with misinformation and have been very hypocritcal, anyways off to bed g'night.
Again. Read the report and get a grip on their operating cost before you try to BS the forums. 32 Mill USD is cash on their bank account. There are absolutely no liquidity issues in this company. It is absolutely idiocy to discuss liquidity issues when a company with minimal operating cost (that including loan termins and server costs) has >30 Mill USD in bank. Don't you think CFO Olav Snadnes in FC would know better than to hire 40 new programmers/animators in July-Sep period for AoC and Secret world if the scenario was such as you describe. In fact there are 12 new positions open today in Oslo if you want a trip over there (None of them as financial advicor luckily, www.funcom.com/wsp/funcom/frontend.cgi). I totally have much more confidence in the CFO than your nonsens. So take a step back buddy, by no means are you in a position to profetize FC's future. Why not just use the target price of major pessimistic analysts in the market, which is 15 NOK (3xcurrent price). Do you think target price is 15 because everybody besides yourself are idiots or because you are a bit off.. I have to admit I think it's the later.
Your care for us AoC gamers is legendary. Don't you worry, we are fine.
Still, if you want to do something about your post patch 2.0 ignoranze let me know. I have buddy key.
If they turn the game around I'll come back of my own accord thanks especially if they give a free month as they intend. However I know full well that if I were to play again now I'd be fed up again in a couple of weeks, pvp xp is a small help but there is still very little to do at endgame, they need to add the tower fights, resource fights, pvp feats, a server merge because I know the server my lvl 80's are on and the city I put about 50 hours farming resources into is near dead.
You'll welcome to give me the buddy key I'll use it to do a population study to see how fair the comments are about increased populations. we can see how many of the servers have acceptable populations
I'm not at all ignorant about the state of the game thanks, I know what has improved and I know that very few of my concerns have been addressed, improved low/mid level dungeons, a few more quests etc do nothing for me.
No surprise you commented on this post though rather then the 2 prior to it, you have filled this thread with misinformation and have been very hypocritcal, anyways off to bed g'night.
I hear you. There is always something new on the TL server, and you can postpone resub forever. Anyway this decission is entirely up to you. I will make one statement though and that is I am very sure you will have no performance issues or memleak stuff going on if you log on. Let me know how it goes if it goes
Again. Read the report and get a grip on their operating cost before you try to BS the forums. 32 Mill USD is cash on their bank account. There are absolutely no liquidity issues in this company. It is absolutely idiocy to discuss liquidity issues when a company with minimal operating cost (that including loan termins and server costs) has >30 Mill USD in bank. Don't you think CFO Olav Snadnes in FC would know better than to hire 40 new programmers/animators in July-Sep period for AoC and Secret world if the scenario was such as you describe. In fact there are 12 new positions open today in Oslo if you want a trip over there (None of them as financial advicor luckily, www.funcom.com/wsp/funcom/frontend.cgi). I totally have much more confidence in the CFO than your nonsens. So take a step back buddy, by no means are you in a position to profetize FC's future. Why not just use the target price of major pessimistic analysts in the market, which is 15 NOK (3xcurrent price). Do you think target price is 15 because everybody besides yourself are idiots or because you are a bit off.. I have to admit I think it's the later.
Okay time to make this crystal clear for you:
#1: I said "heading towards bankruptcy." That is not the same as bankrupt.
#2: 32 million dollars in cash is coupled with 20 million dollars in debt that has to be paid back.
#3: They are losing millions of dollars every quarter. It can't last forever without at some point breaking even.
#4: CFO's don't do the hiring. CFO's can also bring on new people to prepare new products in the hope of things eventually turning around. If they start cutting staff it could begin a downward spiral that is self-perpetuating.
#5: You can't spell.
#6: Those target prices are the cumulation of what they have on file. They are completely out of date. Yahoo's target estimates haven't changed in half a year. Funcom doesn't exactly get a lot of coverage in financial circles lol.
Again. Read the report and get a grip on their operating cost before you try to BS the forums. 32 Mill USD is cash on their bank account. There are absolutely no liquidity issues in this company. It is absolutely idiocy to discuss liquidity issues when a company with minimal operating cost (that including loan termins and server costs) has >30 Mill USD in bank. Don't you think CFO Olav Snadnes in FC would know better than to hire 40 new programmers/animators in July-Sep period for AoC and Secret world if the scenario was such as you describe. In fact there are 12 new positions open today in Oslo if you want a trip over there (None of them as financial advicor luckily, www.funcom.com/wsp/funcom/frontend.cgi). I totally have much more confidence in the CFO than your nonsens. So take a step back buddy, by no means are you in a position to profetize FC's future. Why not just use the target price of major pessimistic analysts in the market, which is 15 NOK (3xcurrent price). Do you think target price is 15 because everybody besides yourself are idiots or because you are a bit off.. I have to admit I think it's the later.
Okay time to make this crystal clear for you:
#1: I said "heading towards bankruptcy." That is not the same as bankrupt.
Look up the word emission and you will realize that this is what normally happens if a stock market registered company run out of cash
#2: 32 million dollars in cash is coupled with 20 million dollars in debt that has to be paid back.
Again, The debt is part of the financial plan staked out by CFO.This is how the company is supposed to be geared. Understand that it is extremely bad that a company have no gearing. Look up gearing. And again, this time I gonna write it in CAPITOL LETTERS. THE TERMIN OF THE LOANS IS PART OF THE EXPENCES ON THE SAME LINE AS COMPENSATION TO EMPLOYEES OR ANY OTHER EXPENSE. THIS IS NOT EVEN A BULLET POINT. 20 mill in loan is nothing with 32 in the bank. Thats why liquidity of FC repeatedly is reffered to as good by any analyst.
#3: They are losing millions of dollars every quarter. It can't last forever without at some point breaking even.
I assume you base this on Q2 that had -5.7 mill. Do you realize that FC hardly got any of the subscriptions fees for AOC in Q2. Also do you realize that a lot of extraordinary costs were related to launch of the game. Lets do this to calm you down a bit. Q2 had 13.2 Mill revenue (1.2 above guided revenue) and result was -5.7 Mill. Q3 is guided to be 16-20 Mill. Now what do you recon result in Q3 will be..............think hard........... Yes you are right probably close to 0, it might in fact be several million on the positive side if FC make it to the upper end of the guiding. Do you see that? More expected revenue, while launch costs are down = a very comfortable scenario
#4: CFO's don't do the hiring. CFO's can also bring on new people to prepare new products in the hope of things eventually turning around. If they start cutting staff it could begin a downward spiral that is self-perpetuating.
Are you somehow trying to tell us that they just hired 50+ people to fool everybody?
#5: You can't spell.
I'll run spellcheck
#6: Those target prices are the cumulation of what they have on file. They are completely out of date. Yahoo's target estimates haven't changed in half a year. Funcom doesn't exactly get a lot of coverage in financial circles lol.
Well I guess you need to change the source material for your target pricing then. Mine are up to date so talk for yourself.
Me Azrile and Noggy was just talking on this and the only way you really can argue that those 32 Mill cash in bank will get reduced is if revenue is lower than guided. That is fair, anyone can have such an opinion. Let me just make me aware of one thing. FC has a good track record on being above guided numbers. Q2 was guided 11-12 Mill but actually made 13.2 Mill, which is 1.2 Mill more than upper guiding. So I would belive that FC are pretty on again if that should be of interest to anyone.