How is it that there are so many of us, forming a very large and lucrative market to sell to, and yet nobody seems to be developing an open sandbox format game which we so longingly crave...
How is it that there are so many of us, forming a very large and lucrative market to sell to, and yet nobody seems to be developing an open sandbox format game which we so longingly crave...
I'm not too worried, really. KOTOR:O can be whatever they want it to be...I'll still play it....when I'm not playing Pre-CU SWG (or helping in the testing before 1.0 goes live).
I remember back in 1999, folks kept asking me if I was stockpiling food. I always answered, "No, I'm stockpiling ammo and making a list of people who are stockpiling food"
How is it that there are so many of us, forming a very large and lucrative market to sell to, and yet nobody seems to be developing an open sandbox format game which we so longingly crave...
What if, Lucas Arts and BiOWARE want to get away from the WoW model all together? What if LA & BW wishes to corner the Market on Sandbox style MMORPGs? If that were the case, then why not build the most innovative Sandbox game of all time? Maybe, they feel the WoW is going to loose it's luster in the near future.
I think we all agree that a Sandbox MMORPG can work very well...if done right!
1) The Bioware MMO may NOT be based on KOTOR at all. Someone else mentioned this and I must say they have a point: The Old Republic era goes from the KOTOR games (maybe earlier) right up to the Clone Wars and the creation of the Empire (just before SWG). Given that the current focus of LA is on the Clone Wars, there's nothing to stop them from making an MMO that looks like a cartoon (to keep system requirements down) and is based on the Clone Wars rather than the KOTOR era. Not something to look forward to.
2) Financial concerns. You can call them greedy or short sighted, but the fact may remain that MMO development companies and publishing houses may be finding it too financially risky to even attempt to break out of the standard "Themepark" formula. Selling the game in stores isn't the issue (just look at AOC and WAR sales). However, KEEPING that subscription base IS the main issue. Personally, I'm not a fan of sandbox type environments (I have my reasons but I'm not going to discuss them here). But I appreciate that others are. But, just like the "Hardcore" MMO's of yesteryear there just may not be enough income generated from a "sandbox" type game to keep it financially sound.
Perhaps EVE is still going with its relatively lowish player base (if you can call 200k low compared to the sales of the later games) because it wasn't released post-WoW. The game has probably paid off a large (if not all) of the projects debts. SWG was released prior to WoW and thus had a large focus in terms of the MMO playerbase, however it's own by a larger company who is obviously taking the lack of subs "on the chin" and who's other games are helping to cushion the loss of income from it. If EVE and SWG had been released THIS year, would they have managed so well financially? Would they have been contenders for the number 2 slot in terms of subscriptions?
Whether anyone likes it or not, times have changed and so have the financial considerations of the world. Also, since WoWs launch, the bar has been raised in terms of quality and expectations of the playerbase. One false move in terms of development direction can these days spell disaster for subscriptions and even MMO companies. If companies try to emulate others in these days in terms of innovation and quality, then automatically the debt for creating such a product rises dramatically. And when that happens devs have to consider ways of reclaiming that debt in the form of increasing subscriptions. And to do THAT, they have to cater for a larger audience and perhaps adjust some of their priorities in terms of the products design.
3) Do not judge a book by its cover. Just because Bioware have made great games in the past, doesn't mean that an MMO made by them will automatically be an overwhelming success. Just look at Brad McQuaid and Richard Garriott. Both men are reknowned for their past achievements. And yet, their latest products in the MMO industry have been considered mediocre by a large population of MMO players. There have even been rumours that Tabula Rasa may be shut down soon. And even without Brad, Vanguard's current development isn't exactly drawing the masses back either.
Two things to consider: 1) Someone else mentioned this and I must say they have a point: The Old Republic era goes from the KOTOR games (maybe earlier) right up to the Clone Wars and the creation of the Empire (just before SWG). Given that the current focus of LA is on the Clone Wars, there's nothing to stop them from making an MMO that looks like a cartoon (to keep system requirements down) and is based on the Clone Wars rather than the KOTOR era. Not something to look forward to. 2) Financial concerns. You can call them greedy or short sighted, but the fact may remain that MMO development companies and publishing houses may be finding it too financially risky to even attempt to break out of the standard "Themepark" formula. Selling the game in stores isn't the issue (just look at AOC and WAR sales). However, KEEPING that subscription base IS the main issue. Personally, I'm not a fan of sandbox type environments (I have my reasons but I'm not going to discuss them here). But I appreciate that others are. But, just like the "Hardcore" MMO's of yesteryear there just may not be enough income generated from a "sandbox" type game to keep it financially sound. Perhaps EVE is going with its relatively lowish player base (if you can call 200k low compared to the sales of the later games) because it wasn't released post-WoW. The game has probably paid off a large (if not all) of the projects debts. SWG was released prior to WoW and thus had a large focus in terms of the MMO playerbase, however it's own by a larger company who is obviously taking the lack of subs "on the chin" and who's other games are helping to cushion the loss of income from it. Whether anyone likes it or not, times have changed and so have the financial considerations of the world. Also, since WoWs launch, the bar has been raised in terms of quality and expectations of the playerbase. One false move in terms of development direction can these days spell disaster for subscriptions and even MMO companies.
Agree...
but what if the world is in fact ready for a well made Sandbox Game? What if a Sandbox Style STAR WARS game puts up WoW-LIKE numbers? It is a real possiblity that people want something more than WoW. Regardless, if not now than one day someone is going to make a really great Sandbox game in the Tradition of the old Pre-CU SWG game.
Agree... but what if the world is in fact ready for a well made Sandbox Game? What if a Sandbox Style STAR WARS game puts up WoW-LIKE numbers? It is a real possiblity that people want something more than WoW. Regardless, if not now than one day someone is going to make a really great Sandbox game in the Tradition of the old Pre-CU SWG game.
I appreciate your yearning for such a game. But where is the proof that there are more than enough people wanting a sandbox game to be released now? If anything, WoW's subs are an indication of the opposite. 10,000 players may sound like a lot, but it's not enough to sustain an MMO indefinately, especially when the development company needs to recoup its costs within an acceptable time frame e.g. 3 years.
Besides that, people may want something other than WoW. That much is understandable. But that maybe simply because they are bored of WoW being WoW. That doesn't mean that they are bored of "Themepark" type MMO's in general. They just may want a different background to an MMO. Something with quality and polish to WoW's standards as it is today (many don't know what WoW was originally like) but perhaps set in the Star Wars KOTOR environment.
Three things to consider: 1) The Bioware MMO may NOT be based on KOTOR at all. Someone else mentioned this and I must say they have a point: The Old Republic era goes from the KOTOR games (maybe earlier) right up to the Clone Wars and the creation of the Empire (just before SWG). Given that the current focus of LA is on the Clone Wars, there's nothing to stop them from making an MMO that looks like a cartoon (to keep system requirements down) and is based on the Clone Wars rather than the KOTOR era. Not something to look forward to. 2) Financial concerns. You can call them greedy or short sighted, but the fact may remain that MMO development companies and publishing houses may be finding it too financially risky to even attempt to break out of the standard "Themepark" formula. Selling the game in stores isn't the issue (just look at AOC and WAR sales). However, KEEPING that subscription base IS the main issue. Personally, I'm not a fan of sandbox type environments (I have my reasons but I'm not going to discuss them here). But I appreciate that others are. But, just like the "Hardcore" MMO's of yesteryear there just may not be enough income generated from a "sandbox" type game to keep it financially sound. Perhaps EVE is still going with its relatively lowish player base (if you can call 200k low compared to the sales of the later games) because it wasn't released post-WoW. The game has probably paid off a large (if not all) of the projects debts. SWG was released prior to WoW and thus had a large focus in terms of the MMO playerbase, however it's own by a larger company who is obviously taking the lack of subs "on the chin" and who's other games are helping to cushion the loss of income from it. If EVE and SWG had been released THIS year, would they have managed so well financially? Would they have been contenders for the number 2 slot in terms of subscriptions? Whether anyone likes it or not, times have changed and so have the financial considerations of the world. Also, since WoWs launch, the bar has been raised in terms of quality and expectations of the playerbase. One false move in terms of development direction can these days spell disaster for subscriptions and even MMO companies. If companies try to emulate others in these days in terms of innovation and quality, then automatically the debt for creating such a product rises dramatically. And when that happens devs have to consider ways of reclaiming that debt in the form of increasing subscriptions. And to do THAT, they have to cater for a larger audience and perhaps adjust some of their priorities in terms of the products design. 3) Do not judge a book by its cover. Just because Bioware have made great games in the past, doesn't mean that an MMO made by them will automatically be an overwhelming success. Just look at Brad McQuaid and Richard Garriott. Both men are reknowned for their past achievements. And yet, their latest products in the MMO industry have been considered mediocre by a large population of MMO players. There have even been rumours that Tabula Rasa may be shut down soon. And even without Brad, Vanguard's current development isn't exactly drawing the masses back either.
Damn I love an intelligent writer! That was sexy.
Currently Playing: Aion Trying Out: Retired: The Chronicles of Spellborn, EvE, LotRo, WoW, VG, AoC, CoX, RO Waiting on: Blade & Soul, Black Prophecy, Global Agenda, The Agency, SW:ToR, T.E.R.A. Working On: The 5th Dimension (coming soon)
Agree... but what if the world is in fact ready for a well made Sandbox Game? What if a Sandbox Style STAR WARS game puts up WoW-LIKE numbers? It is a real possiblity that people want something more than WoW. Regardless, if not now than one day someone is going to make a really great Sandbox game in the Tradition of the old Pre-CU SWG game.
I appreciate your yearning for such a game. But where is the proof that there are more than enough people wanting a sandbox game to be released now? If anything, WoW's subs are an indication of the opposite. 10,000 players may sound like a lot, but it's not enough to sustain an MMO indefinately, especially when the development company needs to recoup its costs within an acceptable time frame e.g. 3 years.
Besides that, people may want something other than WoW. That much is understandable. But that maybe simply because they are bored of WoW being WoW. That doesn't mean that they are bored of "Themepark" type MMO's in general. They just may want a different background to an MMO. Something with quality and polish to WoW's standards as it is today (many don't know what WoW was originally like) but perhaps set in the Star Wars KOTOR environment.
Back in the day...
Where was the Proof that WoW would ever have 10 million subs? No one knew until it happened. Where was the Proof that the NGE would have been such an Epic Failure? The truth is no one knows until it happens. How much trouble did SOE go through to make sure that the NGE was going to accomplish everything they had hoped?
The bottom line is, we don't know how buyers will react...let's hope that we can all have the game we want. Much respect for your opinion.
I'm in school right now so I must make this brief, therefor please forgive me if this has already been voiced. Didn't someone state that the former Pre-CU SWG team is working on the development of this new game? If this is true, woudln't that suggest that possibly both Lucas Arts and BioWare are attempting to rectify the mistakes made by SOE under another title and built upon a different engine? I know this may be far fetched, but one can dream.
-Isaiah
(By the way, this is iamstow, this is just my new account.)
I'm in school right now so I must make this brief, therefor please forgive me if this has already been voiced. Didn't someone state that the former Pre-CU SWG team is working on the development of this new game? If this is true, woudln't that suggest that possibly both Lucas Arts and BioWare are attempting to rectify the mistakes made by SOE under another title and built upon a different engine? I know this may be far fetched, but one can dream. -Isaiah (By the way, this is iamstow, this is just my new account.)
LA was involved with the mistakes made in SWG also, I think that if they were going to do anything to rectify them it would have been done already. But I will at least partly forgive them if they help make a good SW based game.
I'm in school right now so I must make this brief, therefor please forgive me if this has already been voiced. Didn't someone state that the former Pre-CU SWG team is working on the development of this new game? If this is true, woudln't that suggest that possibly both Lucas Arts and BioWare are attempting to rectify the mistakes made by SOE under another title and built upon a different engine? I know this may be far fetched, but one can dream. -Isaiah (By the way, this is iamstow, this is just my new account.)
The thing that confuses me is the total refusal of SOE to return to PRE-CU, I understand that it was buggy but at this point the total revenue that they have lost due to the players who have left the game must far outway the cost of solving the issues with the game engine during it's PRE-CU days.
*The Largest game ever built and released in the History of MMORPGs. *A seemless, instance free Universe where Exploration is the name of the game. *Almost every Planet ever mentioned in the Movies, Books, and Games. Each fully Explorable with hundreds of PVE / PVP battlegrounds to take advantage of. *Players Live on the Planet(s) of their choice and develop rich and bustling Cities and Towns. Trade and Commerce will be the center of these vast Social Hubs. *Guild owned Starships fight for control of the Galactic Trade Routes. Those who rule these lawless depths will have access to unlimited power and influence. *Players can become what ever they want. No Levels to hold you back or place you into certain Class. You choose from hundreds of skills to train...there are no limits! *A complete Player Run Economy where Players Craft every item in the game.
Did I miss something? Is this just someone's dream or is this officially posted somewhere?
*The Largest game ever built and released in the History of MMORPGs. *A seemless, instance free Universe where Exploration is the name of the game. *Almost every Planet ever mentioned in the Movies, Books, and Games. Each fully Explorable with hundreds of PVE / PVP battlegrounds to take advantage of. *Players Live on the Planet(s) of their choice and develop rich and bustling Cities and Towns. Trade and Commerce will be the center of these vast Social Hubs. *Guild owned Starships fight for control of the Galactic Trade Routes. Those who rule these lawless depths will have access to unlimited power and influence. *Players can become what ever they want. No Levels to hold you back or place you into certain Class. You choose from hundreds of skills to train...there are no limits! *A complete Player Run Economy where Players Craft every item in the game.
Did I miss something? Is this just someone's dream or is this officially posted somewhere?
If it's a wish list, never mind.
Other than the guild owned starships it's a pretty good description of the pre-cu game.
Comments
What? From who?
From me! I said it
How is it that there are so many of us, forming a very large and lucrative market to sell to, and yet nobody seems to be developing an open sandbox format game which we so longingly crave...
I hear you, friend.
I'm not too worried, really. KOTOR:O can be whatever they want it to be...I'll still play it....when I'm not playing Pre-CU SWG (or helping in the testing before 1.0 goes live).
I remember back in 1999, folks kept asking me if I was stockpiling food. I always answered, "No, I'm stockpiling ammo and making a list of people who are stockpiling food"
I hear you, friend.
EVE Online. Total sandbox.
And ground game is coming.
A good dream but doubt it.
Ajax
If you predict to be disappointed then you never will be
Nah, I think it will be just another World of Old Republic. Not that bad for me though.
Let's consider for a moment...
What if, Lucas Arts and BiOWARE want to get away from the WoW model all together? What if LA & BW wishes to corner the Market on Sandbox style MMORPGs? If that were the case, then why not build the most innovative Sandbox game of all time? Maybe, they feel the WoW is going to loose it's luster in the near future.
I think we all agree that a Sandbox MMORPG can work very well...if done right!
Three things to consider:
1) The Bioware MMO may NOT be based on KOTOR at all. Someone else mentioned this and I must say they have a point: The Old Republic era goes from the KOTOR games (maybe earlier) right up to the Clone Wars and the creation of the Empire (just before SWG). Given that the current focus of LA is on the Clone Wars, there's nothing to stop them from making an MMO that looks like a cartoon (to keep system requirements down) and is based on the Clone Wars rather than the KOTOR era. Not something to look forward to.
2) Financial concerns. You can call them greedy or short sighted, but the fact may remain that MMO development companies and publishing houses may be finding it too financially risky to even attempt to break out of the standard "Themepark" formula. Selling the game in stores isn't the issue (just look at AOC and WAR sales). However, KEEPING that subscription base IS the main issue. Personally, I'm not a fan of sandbox type environments (I have my reasons but I'm not going to discuss them here). But I appreciate that others are. But, just like the "Hardcore" MMO's of yesteryear there just may not be enough income generated from a "sandbox" type game to keep it financially sound.
Perhaps EVE is still going with its relatively lowish player base (if you can call 200k low compared to the sales of the later games) because it wasn't released post-WoW. The game has probably paid off a large (if not all) of the projects debts. SWG was released prior to WoW and thus had a large focus in terms of the MMO playerbase, however it's own by a larger company who is obviously taking the lack of subs "on the chin" and who's other games are helping to cushion the loss of income from it. If EVE and SWG had been released THIS year, would they have managed so well financially? Would they have been contenders for the number 2 slot in terms of subscriptions?
Whether anyone likes it or not, times have changed and so have the financial considerations of the world. Also, since WoWs launch, the bar has been raised in terms of quality and expectations of the playerbase. One false move in terms of development direction can these days spell disaster for subscriptions and even MMO companies. If companies try to emulate others in these days in terms of innovation and quality, then automatically the debt for creating such a product rises dramatically. And when that happens devs have to consider ways of reclaiming that debt in the form of increasing subscriptions. And to do THAT, they have to cater for a larger audience and perhaps adjust some of their priorities in terms of the products design.
3) Do not judge a book by its cover. Just because Bioware have made great games in the past, doesn't mean that an MMO made by them will automatically be an overwhelming success. Just look at Brad McQuaid and Richard Garriott. Both men are reknowned for their past achievements. And yet, their latest products in the MMO industry have been considered mediocre by a large population of MMO players. There have even been rumours that Tabula Rasa may be shut down soon. And even without Brad, Vanguard's current development isn't exactly drawing the masses back either.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
Agree...
but what if the world is in fact ready for a well made Sandbox Game? What if a Sandbox Style STAR WARS game puts up WoW-LIKE numbers? It is a real possiblity that people want something more than WoW. Regardless, if not now than one day someone is going to make a really great Sandbox game in the Tradition of the old Pre-CU SWG game.
I appreciate your yearning for such a game. But where is the proof that there are more than enough people wanting a sandbox game to be released now? If anything, WoW's subs are an indication of the opposite. 10,000 players may sound like a lot, but it's not enough to sustain an MMO indefinately, especially when the development company needs to recoup its costs within an acceptable time frame e.g. 3 years.
Besides that, people may want something other than WoW. That much is understandable. But that maybe simply because they are bored of WoW being WoW. That doesn't mean that they are bored of "Themepark" type MMO's in general. They just may want a different background to an MMO. Something with quality and polish to WoW's standards as it is today (many don't know what WoW was originally like) but perhaps set in the Star Wars KOTOR environment.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
Damn I love an intelligent writer! That was sexy.
Currently Playing: Aion
Trying Out:
Retired: The Chronicles of Spellborn, EvE, LotRo, WoW, VG, AoC, CoX, RO
Waiting on: Blade & Soul, Black Prophecy, Global Agenda, The Agency, SW:ToR, T.E.R.A.
Working On: The 5th Dimension (coming soon)
I appreciate your yearning for such a game. But where is the proof that there are more than enough people wanting a sandbox game to be released now? If anything, WoW's subs are an indication of the opposite. 10,000 players may sound like a lot, but it's not enough to sustain an MMO indefinately, especially when the development company needs to recoup its costs within an acceptable time frame e.g. 3 years.
Besides that, people may want something other than WoW. That much is understandable. But that maybe simply because they are bored of WoW being WoW. That doesn't mean that they are bored of "Themepark" type MMO's in general. They just may want a different background to an MMO. Something with quality and polish to WoW's standards as it is today (many don't know what WoW was originally like) but perhaps set in the Star Wars KOTOR environment.
Back in the day...
Where was the Proof that WoW would ever have 10 million subs? No one knew until it happened. Where was the Proof that the NGE would have been such an Epic Failure? The truth is no one knows until it happens. How much trouble did SOE go through to make sure that the NGE was going to accomplish everything they had hoped?
The bottom line is, we don't know how buyers will react...let's hope that we can all have the game we want. Much respect for your opinion.
I'm in school right now so I must make this brief, therefor please forgive me if this has already been voiced. Didn't someone state that the former Pre-CU SWG team is working on the development of this new game? If this is true, woudln't that suggest that possibly both Lucas Arts and BioWare are attempting to rectify the mistakes made by SOE under another title and built upon a different engine? I know this may be far fetched, but one can dream.
-Isaiah
(By the way, this is iamstow, this is just my new account.)
LA was involved with the mistakes made in SWG also, I think that if they were going to do anything to rectify them it would have been done already. But I will at least partly forgive them if they help make a good SW based game.
You could indeed be right
The thing that confuses me is the total refusal of SOE to return to PRE-CU, I understand that it was buggy but at this point the total revenue that they have lost due to the players who have left the game must far outway the cost of solving the issues with the game engine during it's PRE-CU days.
-Isaiah
Did I miss something? Is this just someone's dream or is this officially posted somewhere?
If it's a wish list, never mind.
Did I miss something? Is this just someone's dream or is this officially posted somewhere?
If it's a wish list, never mind.
Other than the guild owned starships it's a pretty good description of the pre-cu game.
Sounds ok. Still need some npc merchant to unload crap on. I have my own ideals as well but they would only work in specific timelines.
Official title
Star Wars: Sagas of The New Republic (Online)
Star Wars: Sagas of The Old Republic (Online)
Is that a guess? Or is there some source to make that true?
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Is that a guess? Or is there some source to make that true?
It's a guess. :P Just sounds cool.
its not KOTOR , read my lips The Old Republic is the title name...