If you haven't already seen this discussion, read it and follow the link provided in threads initial post, atleast now we can check one thing off on our lists:
X Confirmation of a new MMO by Lucas Arts and BioWare.
__ New MMO confirmed to be Star Wars in nature.
__ New MMO to resemble SWG Pre-CU
__ SOE to cave in and return to Pre-CU system for SWG (never
The thing that confuses me is the total refusal of SOE to return to PRE-CU, I understand that it was buggy but at this point the total revenue that they have lost due to the players who have left the game must far outway the cost of solving the issues with the game engine during it's PRE-CU days. -Isaiah
I think the reason for this is b/c they dont have the code, and what i mean by this is that Biowear has it and is using some parts of it for their new MMO.
Eveyone is talking that this will not be a sandbox i disagree, Bio and LA are not stupid they see the cry out a sandbox type of game but they want to make it story/instance driven.
I'm willing to bet we will see a mix of the CU version or SWG and a mix of CoX and KOTOR.
kotor or tor ill play anything with starwars. i cant wait for the 21st to get a taste of what they are planning. i want some screenies and stuff. super excited. 21st....i may have to freeze myself so the time goes by faster.
How do they not have the code? Please excuse my ignorance if this is widely known information.
-Isaiah
for the first year the NEG hit everyone was yelling for a roll back the SOE heads keep saying they didnt have the codes and could not do a roll back.
im just guess b/c smart business would be to roll back the game and keep the money rolling in. i cant see any company not doing so if it was possible SOE lost a lot of money and for them not to roll back the game has to be b/c they really dont have the codes.
also too its just a bit odd that BIO has hired a lot of the old PreCU devs to work on this game.
This is true, however isn't a certain project which shall not be named being produced by the act of reverse enginereing old update files. SOE most likely has these files on hand, and if they don't, other websites certainly do as private programmers who shall not be named utilize them on a daily bases. How is it that programmers not connected with SOE are able to do this, but the SOE programmers were not?
How do they not have the code? Please excuse my ignorance if this is widely known information.
-Isaiah
for the first year the NEG hit everyone was yelling for a roll back the SOE heads keep saying they didnt have the codes and could not do a roll back.
im just guess b/c smart business would be to roll back the game and keep the money rolling in. i cant see any company not doing so if it was possible SOE lost a lot of money and for them not to roll back the game has to be b/c they really dont have the codes.
also too its just a bit odd that BIO has hired a lot of the old PreCU devs to work on this game.
But wouldn't it have meant that if they would have done a rollback to pre NGE it would be the same as saying "we have spent X amount of months in development in vain and will now just drop that had go on" which would make them loose credability with the investors which in turn would lead to them pulling out and maybe having to shut down the servers just months after that costly rollback was made?
This is true, however isn't a certain project which shall not be named being produced by the act of reverse enginereing old update files. SOE most likely has these files on hand, and if they don't, other websites certainly do as private programmers who shall not be named utilize them on a daily bases. How is it that programmers not connected with SOE are able to do this, but the SOE programmers were not?
-Isaiah
This is the question many had. I think if the codes where held by SOE they would not have let this unknown band of programmers work on/complete this unnamed project.
i do rememeber seeing somewhere that SOE had a law suite against them but LA gave them permission. but i might not be right
*The Largest game ever built and released in the History of MMORPGs. *A seemless, instance free Universe where Exploration is the name of the game. *Almost every Planet ever mentioned in the Movies, Books, and Games. Each fully Explorable with hundreds of PVE / PVP battlegrounds to take advantage of. *Players Live on the Planet(s) of their choice and develop rich and bustling Cities and Towns. Trade and Commerce will be the center of these vast Social Hubs. *Guild owned Starships fight for control of the Galactic Trade Routes. Those who rule these lawless depths will have access to unlimited power and influence. *Players can become what ever they want. No Levels to hold you back or place you into certain Class. You choose from hundreds of skills to train...there are no limits! *A complete Player Run Economy where Players Craft every item in the game.
Most of this list will not happen sorry,Star Wars Galaxies Pre-Cu attempted to accomplish this and in the end was scrapped. I could care less about player cities,unless they are strictly controlled to not leave the Star Wars Lore.I like Player Housing,Not Player Cities. I loved SWG Pre-CU,but I do not want see another game like that ,I want a game that takes some of the best qualities of games made better,along with tons of new ideas.I feel very confidant that we will never see a game like SWG again I surely do not want another Star Wars Roller Coaster of a game again. I hope the develop it the way they want it to be and stick with it,I will either like it or not.
Will the new game be Pre-CU? Of course not. No other game will likely ever start out that ambitious.
But I definitely see it being miles away from the NGE or being "WoW clone of 2009 #23234".
Better yet, I see it having at least potential. They have one of the best Dev teams in the industry, coincidently most of which were on the original Pre-CU team.
*The Largest game ever built and released in the History of MMORPGs. *A seemless, instance free Universe where Exploration is the name of the game. *Almost every Planet ever mentioned in the Movies, Books, and Games. Each fully Explorable with hundreds of PVE / PVP battlegrounds to take advantage of. *Players Live on the Planet(s) of their choice and develop rich and bustling Cities and Towns. Trade and Commerce will be the center of these vast Social Hubs. *Guild owned Starships fight for control of the Galactic Trade Routes. Those who rule these lawless depths will have access to unlimited power and influence. *Players can become what ever they want. No Levels to hold you back or place you into certain Class. You choose from hundreds of skills to train...there are no limits! *A complete Player Run Economy where Players Craft every item in the game.
Isn't that what they told us about SWG? And SWG largely delivered that until SOE got seduced by WOW profits and decided to ruin the game with the NGE.
As an ex-SWGer, I have yet to find an MMO I can call home. They are all WOW clones now.
That said, if what you said is true, I am looking forward to it.
As an old SWG vet may I suggest you try Vanguard? Yes, yes, I know it's by SOE with everything that entails but after its absolutely disaterous launch, it's a game that's now taking off. I am finding it very like the opld SWG in tone and feel.
*The Largest game ever built and released in the History of MMORPGs. *A seemless, instance free Universe where Exploration is the name of the game. *Almost every Planet ever mentioned in the Movies, Books, and Games. Each fully Explorable with hundreds of PVE / PVP battlegrounds to take advantage of. *Players Live on the Planet(s) of their choice and develop rich and bustling Cities and Towns. Trade and Commerce will be the center of these vast Social Hubs. *Guild owned Starships fight for control of the Galactic Trade Routes. Those who rule these lawless depths will have access to unlimited power and influence. *Players can become what ever they want. No Levels to hold you back or place you into certain Class. You choose from hundreds of skills to train...there are no limits! *A complete Player Run Economy where Players Craft every item in the game.
Isn't that what they told us about SWG? And SWG largely delivered that until SOE got seduced by WOW profits and decided to ruin the game with the NGE.
As an ex-SWGer, I have yet to find an MMO I can call home. They are all WOW clones now.
That said, if what you said is true, I am looking forward to it.
As an old SWG vet may I suggest you try Vanguard? Yes, yes, I know it's by SOE with everything that entails but after its absolutely disaterous launch, it's a game that's now taking off. I am finding it very like the opld SWG in tone and feel.
I wouldn't trust SOE to not pull another NGE with Vanguard. They got it super cheap and are running it with a skeleton staff...they have nothing to lose by doing to it what they did to SWG.
Everone i have talked to that played SWG says its the greatest mmo they ever played. And those that didnt play it wish they had.
The player cities were cool and so many other things, but what really stands out is the fact that it had stuff in it for everyone.
-You want to PvP? Declair and PvP all you want.
-Want to PvE? Dont Declair.
-Want to craft? The game was based on crafting. If you wanted anything you had to have someone craft it for you, so crafting was the backbone of the game. not like other mmo's where crafting is a side thing that most dont even bother with.
-You want to just hang out and chat? Be a dancer or musician in the cantina. This was truly amazing in my book. It forced people to have to go to the cantina and get their mind healed. By doing this it forced people to mingle. I remeber going into the cantina and seeing well over 50 people in it most times... Now this is in the first year of the game before SOE started messing the whole thing up.
-Leveling? LOL there was no leveling. you could max out your toon in under a week. and mix and match classes so you could customize your toon. You wanted to be a carboneer/combat medic? you could be. anything you wanted to be you could be, and if you ended up not liking it you could delete off parts you didnt like and redo it however you want. So your character was totally customizable at any time.
The best part was there wasnt too much content. It was a sand box for players. do what you want when you want. start your own battle. hell do battles through the city and and have a full out bloodshed in the cantina.
No other game has ever had these kinds of qualities. and because of wow and the idiotic mentality of the people making these games it we will never see a game like this again.
its sad when so many people tell these developers what we want and how we want it and yet these morons cant put a good game together.
I got a great idea. Take every thing that makes up WoW and dont put it in the next game. Its time for something fresh that brings players together like wow did. Dont have useless crafting... I hate crafting with a passion. i never did it in eq1, eq2, swg, wow, or any other game, but if its in make it have real purpose like swg did or just not put it in. You dont need a game that is based off of questing and doing raids like eq2. SWG didnt have that. Raiding? That was us getting together and destroying a rebel base. Had some 50 + on 50 + battles in that game.
Ug! i could go on and on about this. Developers get a damn clue or go find another job. And those highering if you cant figure out how to make a game that doesnt complete suck, look me up. I dont know anything about developing, but i can do a much better job then these clowns!
The quickest way to enlightenment is through the process of pain.
Isn't that what they told us about SWG? And SWG largely delivered that until SOE got seduced by WOW profits and decided to ruin the game with the NGE. As an ex-SWGer, I have yet to find an MMO I can call home. They are all WOW clones now. That said, if what you said is true, I am looking forward to it.
As an old SWG vet may I suggest you try Vanguard? Yes, yes, I know it's by SOE with everything that entails but after its absolutely disaterous launch, it's a game that's now taking off. I am finding it very like the opld SWG in tone and feel.
I wouldn't trust SOE to not pull another NGE with Vanguard. They got it super cheap and are running it with a skeleton staff...they have nothing to lose by doing to it what they did to SWG.
He he. You may well be right. It's precisely because the game has pootled along under SOE's radar and because they have left the dev team alone that it is now doing quite well - visit the forums to see what I mean and some of the newer review. Soon some idiot in the SOE boardroom will say to himself; 'Hmmm, subscriber numbers are up, the new content is working fine, the professions seem balanced. Now, what can I do to destroy it?'.
Ok, so SOE destroyed SWG, that's great, but that does not mean that we will never see a game like SWG again. If you feel the need to think that we will never experience SWG again, then that's your prerogative, however the quickest way to make it never happen again is to do just that. That's my dose of common sense for the day.
I, for one, don't believe the era of the "sandbox" to be nearly as dead as some would believe.
I give in evidence, the following three titles in development now...
A: Fallen Earth
B: Earthrise
C: Darkfall
Now, there's been a great deal of "vaporware" yakking about some of those...but I think it's symptomatic of a community becoming jaded in light of what seems to be the pervading philosophy in MMO design. That being, "make it simple, make it quick, get the most subscriptions", thus almost indelibly staining our collective consciousness with the idea that X amount of time...Y amount of features or style of same...etc..and "only" those are earmarks of what could be a tremendously successful game in MMOs. A great deal depends on our own perceptions of what "full of win" is.
SWG came along during an era when the philosophy was radically different. Niche design wasn't something that instantly called forth negative connotations back then. EQ, UO, SWG and the like all were, regardless of subscription numbers, designed for a niche audience as their advertising showed. SWG's alone, if you'll all remember, was targeted directly at the extant fanbase for the Star Wars IP.
Now, we have seen since the NGE and the rise of the behemoth WoW that the dream of a huge subscription base rivaling the (financial) success of WoW is something that just isn't going to happen again. It's like an evolutionary dead-end. Vanguard, Tabula Rasa, AoC, WAR, were all either suspected/touted/or hoped to be "WoW killers" and that's just not gonna happen. Why? Because WoW does what it does for those that like it. Period.
However, that does not mean that it's a design philosophy to be mirror for the hope of success in the industry. Why? Because there's already someone filling that niche. See, game design has evolved with our sensibilities and without much direction of late. Evidence of this is that titles that shoot for that level of success or to nudge into that niche while seeming to fill thier own have been rather serious let downs for far too many, in my opinion. It's endemic of a population knowing what it wants, having had it before, but those that can provide simply are deaf to the calls of the population.
Now, as with the three examples I provided above, we see the natural shift in the consciousness of the game industry. Seeing titles like those in development...seeing the content ...features...genres...etc that are being achieved; noting that companies are beginning to play things far closer to the vest in the wake of infamous failures and blind stumbling in the initial development and "gold status" of other titles; noting also that there is a sense, I find, in the market at large that how things have been (regardless of their success) may not be reflective of how things should be; these are things that indicate to me that the idea of designing a MMO IP for a "niche" has come full circle in the eyes of at least SOME of the market's development houses and I can't say with any more certainty or relief that I'm glad to see the same.
The new project from LEC/BioWare very well may be the SW title we're ALL slobbering for, but I honestly hope that with the aforementioned as obvious to me as a consumer and apparently to design houses in the industry itself that BioWare, at least, won't be blind to the truth that underlies the entire subject of this post.
1: You dance with who brought you...
2: Know your audience, target their desires fully, and stay on track in that vein of thought.
3: Do what you do best and what is best in the interests and desires of the target audience. In other words, "Don't play in someone elses' sandbox....make your own."
I hope that, should things turn out as they feel to me, that we'll have a fulfilling sandbox with a storyline that literally compels us into it's flow with the missions/quests/whathaveyou structure that serves the title IP the best from OUR perspective...unwavered and uncorrupted by the distorting lens of the all-mighty behemoth...as well as unfettered from the belief that because it works for one audience, it'll work for all.
Just a few creds on the table. /shrug
Yes, I have anger issues. They taste like chocolate bunnies.
*The Largest game ever built and released in the History of MMORPGs. *A seemless, instance free Universe where Exploration is the name of the game. *Almost every Planet ever mentioned in the Movies, Books, and Games. Each fully Explorable with hundreds of PVE / PVP battlegrounds to take advantage of. *Players Live on the Planet(s) of their choice and develop rich and bustling Cities and Towns. Trade and Commerce will be the center of these vast Social Hubs. *Guild owned Starships fight for control of the Galactic Trade Routes. Those who rule these lawless depths will have access to unlimited power and influence. *Players can become what ever they want. No Levels to hold you back or place you into certain Class. You choose from hundreds of skills to train...there are no limits! *A complete Player Run Economy where Players Craft every item in the game.
Most of this list will not happen sorry,Star Wars Galaxies Pre-Cu attempted to accomplish this and in the end was scrapped. I could care less about player cities,unless they are strictly controlled to not leave the Star Wars Lore.I like Player Housing,Not Player Cities. I loved SWG Pre-CU,but I do not want see another game like that ,I want a game that takes some of the best qualities of games made better,along with tons of new ideas.I feel very confidant that we will never see a game like SWG again I surely do not want another Star Wars Roller Coaster of a game again. I hope the develop it the way they want it to be and stick with it,I will either like it or not.
How do you know it won't happen? How do you know they won't have Player Housing, Guild Cities and Starships? No one knows until the 21st!!!!
*The Largest game ever built and released in the History of MMORPGs. *A seemless, instance free Universe where Exploration is the name of the game. *Almost every Planet ever mentioned in the Movies, Books, and Games. Each fully Explorable with hundreds of PVE / PVP battlegrounds to take advantage of. *Players Live on the Planet(s) of their choice and develop rich and bustling Cities and Towns. Trade and Commerce will be the center of these vast Social Hubs. *Guild owned Starships fight for control of the Galactic Trade Routes. Those who rule these lawless depths will have access to unlimited power and influence. *Players can become what ever they want. No Levels to hold you back or place you into certain Class. You choose from hundreds of skills to train...there are no limits! *A complete Player Run Economy where Players Craft every item in the game.
Most of this list will not happen sorry,Star Wars Galaxies Pre-Cu attempted to accomplish this and in the end was scrapped. I could care less about player cities,unless they are strictly controlled to not leave the Star Wars Lore.I like Player Housing,Not Player Cities. I loved SWG Pre-CU,but I do not want see another game like that ,I want a game that takes some of the best qualities of games made better,along with tons of new ideas.I feel very confidant that we will never see a game like SWG again I surely do not want another Star Wars Roller Coaster of a game again. I hope the develop it the way they want it to be and stick with it,I will either like it or not.
How do you know it won't happen? How do you know they won't have Player Housing, Guild Cities and Starships? No one knows until the 21st!!!!
Well, we don't know. My guess is the very best we can hope for at this point is some sort of instanced player housing. I also agree it more than likley will not be a sandbox game. That is really sad IMO. One of the best things about SWG was the fact that you could find your own place in the universe. One day you could live the Life of the Jedi Hermit, on a Moisture Farm far away from another living sole and the next day you could be a Wealthy Bounty Hunter living life to the fullest with all the Booze and Hookers you could throw your credits at.
The best thing about a "SANDBOX" SW game is the fact that you can become anyone in the SW Universe. One minute your hunting Rancors the Next you are camping with your Buds...It was just a rare and magic game that will prawly never be repeated.
If LA and BW are smart they will find a way to Combine all the kick-ass elements of a SANDBOX game with all the elements of a WoW game. True Victory can be achived by giving everyone everything they want in one game...EASY!
I agree with you. I think if the devs could ever keep the balance issues in check, then it will become more of a possibility. The ability to keep god-templates out of game is fundamental to the overall health of any game. With careful planning and a bit of imagination, it could be done and I think it would be a very popular feature.
<snip> 1) The Bioware MMO may NOT be based on KOTOR at all. Someone else mentioned this and I must say they have a point: The Old Republic era goes from the KOTOR games (maybe earlier) right up to the Clone Wars and the creation of the Empire (just before SWG). Given that the current focus of LA is on the Clone Wars, there's nothing to stop them from making an MMO that looks like a cartoon (to keep system requirements down) and is based on the Clone Wars rather than the KOTOR era. Not something to look forward to.
I basically give up on MMOs altogether if this game shows itself as another WoW copy. I have very little hope left for the MMO market. '08 was a pathetic year for MMOs in my opinion, and I think for a good amount of us '09 and '10 are about as much hope as we're willing to give, if people haven't given up on any real new (not WoW) MMO to ever come out.
I, for one, don't believe the era of the "sandbox" to be nearly as dead as some would believe. I give in evidence, the following three titles in development now...
A: Fallen Earth B: Earthrise C: Darkfall
Now, there's been a great deal of "vaporware" yakking about some of those...but I think it's symptomatic of a community becoming jaded in light of what seems to be the pervading philosophy in MMO design. That being, "make it simple, make it quick, get the most subscriptions", thus almost indelibly staining our collective consciousness with the idea that X amount of time...Y amount of features or style of same...etc..and "only" those are earmarks of what could be a tremendously successful game in MMOs. A great deal depends on our own perceptions of what "full of win" is. SWG came along during an era when the philosophy was radically different. Niche design wasn't something that instantly called forth negative connotations back then. EQ, UO, SWG and the like all were, regardless of subscription numbers, designed for a niche audience as their advertising showed. SWG's alone, if you'll all remember, was targeted directly at the extant fanbase for the Star Wars IP. Now, we have seen since the NGE and the rise of the behemoth WoW that the dream of a huge subscription base rivaling the (financial) success of WoW is something that just isn't going to happen again. It's like an evolutionary dead-end. Vanguard, Tabula Rasa, AoC, WAR, were all either suspected/touted/or hoped to be "WoW killers" and that's just not gonna happen. Why? Because WoW does what it does for those that like it. Period. However, that does not mean that it's a design philosophy to be mirror for the hope of success in the industry. Why? Because there's already someone filling that niche. See, game design has evolved with our sensibilities and without much direction of late. Evidence of this is that titles that shoot for that level of success or to nudge into that niche while seeming to fill thier own have been rather serious let downs for far too many, in my opinion. It's endemic of a population knowing what it wants, having had it before, but those that can provide simply are deaf to the calls of the population. Now, as with the three examples I provided above, we see the natural shift in the consciousness of the game industry. Seeing titles like those in development...seeing the content ...features...genres...etc that are being achieved; noting that companies are beginning to play things far closer to the vest in the wake of infamous failures and blind stumbling in the initial development and "gold status" of other titles; noting also that there is a sense, I find, in the market at large that how things have been (regardless of their success) may not be reflective of how things should be; these are things that indicate to me that the idea of designing a MMO IP for a "niche" has come full circle in the eyes of at least SOME of the market's development houses and I can't say with any more certainty or relief that I'm glad to see the same. The new project from LEC/BioWare very well may be the SW title we're ALL slobbering for, but I honestly hope that with the aforementioned as obvious to me as a consumer and apparently to design houses in the industry itself that BioWare, at least, won't be blind to the truth that underlies the entire subject of this post. 1: You dance with who brought you... 2: Know your audience, target their desires fully, and stay on track in that vein of thought. 3: Do what you do best and what is best in the interests and desires of the target audience. In other words, "Don't play in someone elses' sandbox....make your own." I hope that, should things turn out as they feel to me, that we'll have a fulfilling sandbox with a storyline that literally compels us into it's flow with the missions/quests/whathaveyou structure that serves the title IP the best from OUR perspective...unwavered and uncorrupted by the distorting lens of the all-mighty behemoth...as well as unfettered from the belief that because it works for one audience, it'll work for all.
<snip> 1) The Bioware MMO may NOT be based on KOTOR at all. Someone else mentioned this and I must say they have a point: The Old Republic era goes from the KOTOR games (maybe earlier) right up to the Clone Wars and the creation of the Empire (just before SWG). Given that the current focus of LA is on the Clone Wars, there's nothing to stop them from making an MMO that looks like a cartoon (to keep system requirements down) and is based on the Clone Wars rather than the KOTOR era. Not something to look forward to.
I basically give up on MMOs altogether if this game shows itself as another WoW copy. I have very little hope left for the MMO market. '08 was a pathetic year for MMOs in my opinion, and I think for a good amount of us '09 and '10 are about as much hope as we're willing to give, if people haven't given up on any real new (not WoW) MMO to ever come out.
<snip> 1) The Bioware MMO may NOT be based on KOTOR at all. Someone else mentioned this and I must say they have a point: The Old Republic era goes from the KOTOR games (maybe earlier) right up to the Clone Wars and the creation of the Empire (just before SWG). Given that the current focus of LA is on the Clone Wars, there's nothing to stop them from making an MMO that looks like a cartoon (to keep system requirements down) and is based on the Clone Wars rather than the KOTOR era. Not something to look forward to.
I basically give up on MMOs altogether if this game shows itself as another WoW copy. I have very little hope left for the MMO market. '08 was a pathetic year for MMOs in my opinion, and I think for a good amount of us '09 and '10 are about as much hope as we're willing to give, if people haven't given up on any real new (not WoW) MMO to ever come out.
I will tempted to follow you
I don't think it going to be a complete copy. From the interview, I read it looks like the base model for Bioware MMO will be WOW. As it should be since they are the standard. (I hate WOW no fanboy here) Alot of the top devs play/ played WOW and are now playing WAR. They seem to have played AoC and LoTR and other MMO.
They will put the Bioware storytelling quest system and I'm sure will take the good from all the MMO they have tried out to make a great game. I have never been dissappointed with a Bioware game from Baldur Gate to Mass Effect. I love KoTOR 1 and 2 (I know Bioware didn't make 2)
What I expect to see is a game with great Storytelling quest system. Something like the destiny quest in AOC but where choice in game will effect your faction light/dark. ( I like AOC starting/introductions island it was well done to bad the rest of the game was not as good/buggy.) With about 9 to 12 professionwith and maybe 3 to6 races to start with.
Comments
If you haven't already seen this discussion, read it and follow the link provided in threads initial post, atleast now we can check one thing off on our lists:
X Confirmation of a new MMO by Lucas Arts and BioWare.
__ New MMO confirmed to be Star Wars in nature.
__ New MMO to resemble SWG Pre-CU
__ SOE to cave in and return to Pre-CU system for SWG (never
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/206200
-Isaiah
Sorry I can not read your lips but reading your words seem easy enough
/jk
I think the reason for this is b/c they dont have the code, and what i mean by this is that Biowear has it and is using some parts of it for their new MMO.
Eveyone is talking that this will not be a sandbox i disagree, Bio and LA are not stupid they see the cry out a sandbox type of game but they want to make it story/instance driven.
I'm willing to bet we will see a mix of the CU version or SWG and a mix of CoX and KOTOR.
How do they not have the code? Please excuse my ignorance if this is widely known information.
-Isaiah
kotor or tor ill play anything with starwars. i cant wait for the 21st to get a taste of what they are planning. i want some screenies and stuff. super excited. 21st....i may have to freeze myself so the time goes by faster.
for the first year the NEG hit everyone was yelling for a roll back the SOE heads keep saying they didnt have the codes and could not do a roll back.
im just guess b/c smart business would be to roll back the game and keep the money rolling in. i cant see any company not doing so if it was possible SOE lost a lot of money and for them not to roll back the game has to be b/c they really dont have the codes.
also too its just a bit odd that BIO has hired a lot of the old PreCU devs to work on this game.
This is true, however isn't a certain project which shall not be named being produced by the act of reverse enginereing old update files. SOE most likely has these files on hand, and if they don't, other websites certainly do as private programmers who shall not be named utilize them on a daily bases. How is it that programmers not connected with SOE are able to do this, but the SOE programmers were not?
-Isaiah
for the first year the NEG hit everyone was yelling for a roll back the SOE heads keep saying they didnt have the codes and could not do a roll back.
im just guess b/c smart business would be to roll back the game and keep the money rolling in. i cant see any company not doing so if it was possible SOE lost a lot of money and for them not to roll back the game has to be b/c they really dont have the codes.
also too its just a bit odd that BIO has hired a lot of the old PreCU devs to work on this game.
But wouldn't it have meant that if they would have done a rollback to pre NGE it would be the same as saying "we have spent X amount of months in development in vain and will now just drop that had go on" which would make them loose credability with the investors which in turn would lead to them pulling out and maybe having to shut down the servers just months after that costly rollback was made?
This is the question many had. I think if the codes where held by SOE they would not have let this unknown band of programmers work on/complete this unnamed project.
i do rememeber seeing somewhere that SOE had a law suite against them but LA gave them permission. but i might not be right
Most of this list will not happen sorry,Star Wars Galaxies Pre-Cu attempted to accomplish this and in the end was scrapped. I could care less about player cities,unless they are strictly controlled to not leave the Star Wars Lore.I like Player Housing,Not Player Cities. I loved SWG Pre-CU,but I do not want see another game like that ,I want a game that takes some of the best qualities of games made better,along with tons of new ideas.I feel very confidant that we will never see a game like SWG again I surely do not want another Star Wars Roller Coaster of a game again. I hope the develop it the way they want it to be and stick with it,I will either like it or not.
Will the new game be Pre-CU? Of course not. No other game will likely ever start out that ambitious.
But I definitely see it being miles away from the NGE or being "WoW clone of 2009 #23234".
Better yet, I see it having at least potential. They have one of the best Dev teams in the industry, coincidently most of which were on the original Pre-CU team.
Isn't that what they told us about SWG? And SWG largely delivered that until SOE got seduced by WOW profits and decided to ruin the game with the NGE.
As an ex-SWGer, I have yet to find an MMO I can call home. They are all WOW clones now.
That said, if what you said is true, I am looking forward to it.
As an old SWG vet may I suggest you try Vanguard? Yes, yes, I know it's by SOE with everything that entails but after its absolutely disaterous launch, it's a game that's now taking off. I am finding it very like the opld SWG in tone and feel.
Isn't that what they told us about SWG? And SWG largely delivered that until SOE got seduced by WOW profits and decided to ruin the game with the NGE.
As an ex-SWGer, I have yet to find an MMO I can call home. They are all WOW clones now.
That said, if what you said is true, I am looking forward to it.
As an old SWG vet may I suggest you try Vanguard? Yes, yes, I know it's by SOE with everything that entails but after its absolutely disaterous launch, it's a game that's now taking off. I am finding it very like the opld SWG in tone and feel.
I wouldn't trust SOE to not pull another NGE with Vanguard. They got it super cheap and are running it with a skeleton staff...they have nothing to lose by doing to it what they did to SWG.
Everone i have talked to that played SWG says its the greatest mmo they ever played. And those that didnt play it wish they had.
The player cities were cool and so many other things, but what really stands out is the fact that it had stuff in it for everyone.
-You want to PvP? Declair and PvP all you want.
-Want to PvE? Dont Declair.
-Want to craft? The game was based on crafting. If you wanted anything you had to have someone craft it for you, so crafting was the backbone of the game. not like other mmo's where crafting is a side thing that most dont even bother with.
-You want to just hang out and chat? Be a dancer or musician in the cantina. This was truly amazing in my book. It forced people to have to go to the cantina and get their mind healed. By doing this it forced people to mingle. I remeber going into the cantina and seeing well over 50 people in it most times... Now this is in the first year of the game before SOE started messing the whole thing up.
-Leveling? LOL there was no leveling. you could max out your toon in under a week. and mix and match classes so you could customize your toon. You wanted to be a carboneer/combat medic? you could be. anything you wanted to be you could be, and if you ended up not liking it you could delete off parts you didnt like and redo it however you want. So your character was totally customizable at any time.
The best part was there wasnt too much content. It was a sand box for players. do what you want when you want. start your own battle. hell do battles through the city and and have a full out bloodshed in the cantina.
No other game has ever had these kinds of qualities. and because of wow and the idiotic mentality of the people making these games it we will never see a game like this again.
its sad when so many people tell these developers what we want and how we want it and yet these morons cant put a good game together.
I got a great idea. Take every thing that makes up WoW and dont put it in the next game. Its time for something fresh that brings players together like wow did. Dont have useless crafting... I hate crafting with a passion. i never did it in eq1, eq2, swg, wow, or any other game, but if its in make it have real purpose like swg did or just not put it in. You dont need a game that is based off of questing and doing raids like eq2. SWG didnt have that. Raiding? That was us getting together and destroying a rebel base. Had some 50 + on 50 + battles in that game.
Ug! i could go on and on about this. Developers get a damn clue or go find another job. And those highering if you cant figure out how to make a game that doesnt complete suck, look me up. I dont know anything about developing, but i can do a much better job then these clowns!
The quickest way to enlightenment is through the process of pain.
Stacey Lords
As an old SWG vet may I suggest you try Vanguard? Yes, yes, I know it's by SOE with everything that entails but after its absolutely disaterous launch, it's a game that's now taking off. I am finding it very like the opld SWG in tone and feel.
I wouldn't trust SOE to not pull another NGE with Vanguard. They got it super cheap and are running it with a skeleton staff...they have nothing to lose by doing to it what they did to SWG.
He he. You may well be right. It's precisely because the game has pootled along under SOE's radar and because they have left the dev team alone that it is now doing quite well - visit the forums to see what I mean and some of the newer review. Soon some idiot in the SOE boardroom will say to himself; 'Hmmm, subscriber numbers are up, the new content is working fine, the professions seem balanced. Now, what can I do to destroy it?'.
Ok, so SOE destroyed SWG, that's great, but that does not mean that we will never see a game like SWG again. If you feel the need to think that we will never experience SWG again, then that's your prerogative, however the quickest way to make it never happen again is to do just that. That's my dose of common sense for the day.
-Isaiah
I, for one, don't believe the era of the "sandbox" to be nearly as dead as some would believe.
I give in evidence, the following three titles in development now...
A: Fallen Earth
B: Earthrise
C: Darkfall
Now, there's been a great deal of "vaporware" yakking about some of those...but I think it's symptomatic of a community becoming jaded in light of what seems to be the pervading philosophy in MMO design. That being, "make it simple, make it quick, get the most subscriptions", thus almost indelibly staining our collective consciousness with the idea that X amount of time...Y amount of features or style of same...etc..and "only" those are earmarks of what could be a tremendously successful game in MMOs. A great deal depends on our own perceptions of what "full of win" is.
SWG came along during an era when the philosophy was radically different. Niche design wasn't something that instantly called forth negative connotations back then. EQ, UO, SWG and the like all were, regardless of subscription numbers, designed for a niche audience as their advertising showed. SWG's alone, if you'll all remember, was targeted directly at the extant fanbase for the Star Wars IP.
Now, we have seen since the NGE and the rise of the behemoth WoW that the dream of a huge subscription base rivaling the (financial) success of WoW is something that just isn't going to happen again. It's like an evolutionary dead-end. Vanguard, Tabula Rasa, AoC, WAR, were all either suspected/touted/or hoped to be "WoW killers" and that's just not gonna happen. Why? Because WoW does what it does for those that like it. Period.
However, that does not mean that it's a design philosophy to be mirror for the hope of success in the industry. Why? Because there's already someone filling that niche. See, game design has evolved with our sensibilities and without much direction of late. Evidence of this is that titles that shoot for that level of success or to nudge into that niche while seeming to fill thier own have been rather serious let downs for far too many, in my opinion. It's endemic of a population knowing what it wants, having had it before, but those that can provide simply are deaf to the calls of the population.
Now, as with the three examples I provided above, we see the natural shift in the consciousness of the game industry. Seeing titles like those in development...seeing the content ...features...genres...etc that are being achieved; noting that companies are beginning to play things far closer to the vest in the wake of infamous failures and blind stumbling in the initial development and "gold status" of other titles; noting also that there is a sense, I find, in the market at large that how things have been (regardless of their success) may not be reflective of how things should be; these are things that indicate to me that the idea of designing a MMO IP for a "niche" has come full circle in the eyes of at least SOME of the market's development houses and I can't say with any more certainty or relief that I'm glad to see the same.
The new project from LEC/BioWare very well may be the SW title we're ALL slobbering for, but I honestly hope that with the aforementioned as obvious to me as a consumer and apparently to design houses in the industry itself that BioWare, at least, won't be blind to the truth that underlies the entire subject of this post.
1: You dance with who brought you...
2: Know your audience, target their desires fully, and stay on track in that vein of thought.
3: Do what you do best and what is best in the interests and desires of the target audience. In other words, "Don't play in someone elses' sandbox....make your own."
I hope that, should things turn out as they feel to me, that we'll have a fulfilling sandbox with a storyline that literally compels us into it's flow with the missions/quests/whathaveyou structure that serves the title IP the best from OUR perspective...unwavered and uncorrupted by the distorting lens of the all-mighty behemoth...as well as unfettered from the belief that because it works for one audience, it'll work for all.
Just a few creds on the table. /shrug
Yes, I have anger issues. They taste like chocolate bunnies.
Most of this list will not happen sorry,Star Wars Galaxies Pre-Cu attempted to accomplish this and in the end was scrapped. I could care less about player cities,unless they are strictly controlled to not leave the Star Wars Lore.I like Player Housing,Not Player Cities. I loved SWG Pre-CU,but I do not want see another game like that ,I want a game that takes some of the best qualities of games made better,along with tons of new ideas.I feel very confidant that we will never see a game like SWG again I surely do not want another Star Wars Roller Coaster of a game again. I hope the develop it the way they want it to be and stick with it,I will either like it or not.
How do you know it won't happen? How do you know they won't have Player Housing, Guild Cities and Starships? No one knows until the 21st!!!!
Most of this list will not happen sorry,Star Wars Galaxies Pre-Cu attempted to accomplish this and in the end was scrapped. I could care less about player cities,unless they are strictly controlled to not leave the Star Wars Lore.I like Player Housing,Not Player Cities. I loved SWG Pre-CU,but I do not want see another game like that ,I want a game that takes some of the best qualities of games made better,along with tons of new ideas.I feel very confidant that we will never see a game like SWG again I surely do not want another Star Wars Roller Coaster of a game again. I hope the develop it the way they want it to be and stick with it,I will either like it or not.
How do you know it won't happen? How do you know they won't have Player Housing, Guild Cities and Starships? No one knows until the 21st!!!!
Well, we don't know. My guess is the very best we can hope for at this point is some sort of instanced player housing. I also agree it more than likley will not be a sandbox game. That is really sad IMO. One of the best things about SWG was the fact that you could find your own place in the universe. One day you could live the Life of the Jedi Hermit, on a Moisture Farm far away from another living sole and the next day you could be a Wealthy Bounty Hunter living life to the fullest with all the Booze and Hookers you could throw your credits at.
The best thing about a "SANDBOX" SW game is the fact that you can become anyone in the SW Universe. One minute your hunting Rancors the Next you are camping with your Buds...It was just a rare and magic game that will prawly never be repeated.
If LA and BW are smart they will find a way to Combine all the kick-ass elements of a SANDBOX game with all the elements of a WoW game. True Victory can be achived by giving everyone everything they want in one game...EASY!
I'm so sick of level based games I want to vomit.
I agree with you. I think if the devs could ever keep the balance issues in check, then it will become more of a possibility. The ability to keep god-templates out of game is fundamental to the overall health of any game. With careful planning and a bit of imagination, it could be done and I think it would be a very popular feature.
I basically give up on MMOs altogether if this game shows itself as another WoW copy. I have very little hope left for the MMO market. '08 was a pathetic year for MMOs in my opinion, and I think for a good amount of us '09 and '10 are about as much hope as we're willing to give, if people haven't given up on any real new (not WoW) MMO to ever come out.
some great points!
A few things I hate about some mmo concepts.
1) Console Games
2) FPS & TPS (twitch combat)
3) Heavy Instanced
I basically give up on MMOs altogether if this game shows itself as another WoW copy. I have very little hope left for the MMO market. '08 was a pathetic year for MMOs in my opinion, and I think for a good amount of us '09 and '10 are about as much hope as we're willing to give, if people haven't given up on any real new (not WoW) MMO to ever come out.
I will tempted to follow you
I basically give up on MMOs altogether if this game shows itself as another WoW copy. I have very little hope left for the MMO market. '08 was a pathetic year for MMOs in my opinion, and I think for a good amount of us '09 and '10 are about as much hope as we're willing to give, if people haven't given up on any real new (not WoW) MMO to ever come out.
I will tempted to follow you
I don't think it going to be a complete copy. From the interview, I read it looks like the base model for Bioware MMO will be WOW. As it should be since they are the standard. (I hate WOW no fanboy here) Alot of the top devs play/ played WOW and are now playing WAR. They seem to have played AoC and LoTR and other MMO.
They will put the Bioware storytelling quest system and I'm sure will take the good from all the MMO they have tried out to make a great game. I have never been dissappointed with a Bioware game from Baldur Gate to Mass Effect. I love KoTOR 1 and 2 (I know Bioware didn't make 2)
What I expect to see is a game with great Storytelling quest system. Something like the destiny quest in AOC but where choice in game will effect your faction light/dark. ( I like AOC starting/introductions island it was well done to bad the rest of the game was not as good/buggy.) With about 9 to 12 professionwith and maybe 3 to6 races to start with.