Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
The big question from tonight's presidential debate is...
Zindaihas
Member UncommonPosts: 3,662
How is "Joe the plumber" going to cash in on his newfound celebrity? I don't know if it's going to lead to any news sources of income for old Joe, but is so, look out, it's going to probably knock you up into an even higher tax bracket.
Other than that, I didn't really watch the debate so I don't know how it went.
Comments
SNL will cash in on Joe the Plumber. And maybe McCain snorting. I thought I heard him snort when he laughed near the end.
I liked at the End after the Debate When McCain Stuck his toung out... lol.
And Joe will probably half to forego Buying the company he is working for at this rate.
If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude; greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
Samuel Adams
Actually, I am kind of tired how Obama says the majority of small businesses don't earn more then $250k/year. This is only moderately true because it includes independant contractors who are really just employees a business doesn't offer benefits to and businesses that fail from the getgo. Such as your mom wants to open up a restaurant, but isn't really passionate about the idea, and if she had the money everything will just work out. A person working at minimum wage earns about $16k/year. At $250k profit/year, you are looking at employing only 15 workers and not very good workers either. This doesn't even include money for you or money you sink into other expenses. I think its pretty typical to have small businesses include more then 15 employees from the businesses I have worked for.
When McCain and Obama continued to bring up Joe, yes his small plumbing business would qualify for the $250k/year income bracket. He would pay the majority of his income to the federal government, and he would be forced to insure all his employees or face a fine. This would result in less jobs Joe can offer. With 0% tax he can employee 15 underpayed employees, with Obama's plan he can insure less then 5 underpayed employees with health insurance.
Also Obama is unclear on what he considers big/small business and middle-income. I think people should pay attention to the numbers Obama sets forth because sometimes he goes against those numbers. When he says middle-income gets 300% greater tax incentive, its people who make less then $45k/year and typically have no tax liabilities anyway. However, middle-income can sometimes expand to people up to $100k/year depending on household size. Obama's tax incentives do not take into consideration the individual since people making more can be doing worse since they support more people that McCain's plan does address.
Is the debate over?
Most small businesses, earning 250k profit (after revenue - expenses) is pretty good.
Most small businesses are barely surviving, and they are why we enjoy the prosperity we do; they are very efficient, make very little money, use limited resources effectively, and supply the majority of jobs.
Our country was founded by, mostly, small business owners (farmering, brewers, smiths, etc.) who wanted people to "keep what they earned."
It was WW2 when we implemented the income tax, which really taxed the wealthy, high-income earners.
Today, the burden of taxation is on fixed wager-earners. Section 61 of the Internal Revenue Code.
As far as I can tell, wage-earners somehow believe that the "rich pay most taxes." Hehe. Yes. Upper middle-class pay a lot of taxes, but they are not "wealthy" or "rich."
Wealth is assets; Income is Class.
(I know trust fund babies in grad school with low income, lower class, but are wealthy because they are the beneficaries of trusts valued in the tens of millions, and in some cases, hundreds).
There is TREMENDOUS money out there; a HUGE sea of it. But it is concentrated in about 2% of households in the USA. Wealth disparity and social mobility are a serious problem in the USA compared to many countries.
Guys, you are expecting way to many fine details right now. What you need to look at is the fundamental idea, because that is the only thing that might make it into office especially during these times. I HIGHLY suspect that as a democrat/socialist/communist/marxist Obama will take into account families. Much the same for McCain and his plan.
We just can't berate either of them for lacking fine technicalities, because a lot of that is for them to work out once they get in the office. As it stands, Obama may not be able to keep a lot of his promises because of the economy.
___________________
Sadly, I see storm clouds on the horizon. A faint stench of Vanguard is in the air.-Kien
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/12/13/
Omg, I just found out there is a plumber right down the street from where I live (in Seattle) who goes by "Joe the Plumber"
Whatsmore, I'm originally from Ohio and my parents live in the same town as the now famous, Joe the plumber. How weird is that?
But I have a quick question. I don't want to knock Joe the plumber at all because I really like his story and I think he is inadvertantly helping McCain. But when he talked to Obama, he said he works 10-12 hours a day. So where is he finding all this time to talk to the media? Maybe he took the day off today.
One final note. While doing a search on Joe the plumber, I found an interesting blog which explains Obama's "spread the wealth" gaffe, reveals that he is a true socialist. I hope this sends a shiver down your spine.
I just hate when I reference a site and forget to link it. Sorry.
Barack the Socialist
Joe might make for a more legitimate discussion if he actually represented what he and the GOP claimed:
McCain to Obama regarding 'Joe the Plumber' whom he mentioned over 20 times at the debate:
"You were going to put him in a higher tax bracket, which was going to increase his taxes, which was going to cause him not to be able to employ people, which Joe was trying to realize the American dream."
Results from interviews with 'Joe the Plumber' the day after the debate:
"Wurzelbacher conceded today that he is not in danger of being hit with the higher tax rate. He acknowledged that he wants to buy a plumbing company for $250,000 to $280,000. That wouldn't be how much profit he would make from the firm. He would make much less, he said."
- story is now being covered widely, but quotes are from this ABC article.
McCain is out today stumping and continues to make this same false statement a focus of his new approach.
'The Straight Talk Express' -- I can't even remember when it still had wheels.
hes not even licensed
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
I think the thing to remember about McCain's tax policy is that it benefits all Americans. Obama's plan doesn't help any more then McCains until you are earning less then $100k. Obviously his business might not be earning $250k/year, but its reasonable to assume it can make over $100k/year. Obama is also hitting the Capital Gains tax doubling it. They interviewed a Joe the Plumber here in my city who is supporting Obama. He said if his business earned too much under Obama's plan he would have to shutdown his business.
Transcript of the final debate:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78170
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
from what i heard today while sitting in alot of damn traffic, is that joe the plumber wants to open up his own plumbing business and earn 250k a year from it. of course employing other licensed plumbers as well.
so that is joes dream. and many americans dreams. to work hard and earn that money. the pivotal 250k a year.
but than to be punished by govt. and barack who deems you make too much for you're own good and we need to 'spread the wealth' around.
a real travesty for the american dream!
-I will subtlety invade your psyche-
And so it begins, the smearing of Joe The Plumber, a "man on the street" who spoke to Obama and disagreed with his Tax Plan.
Since his opinion could not be discredited (it is an opinion) and causes possible doubt (made the news), his character must be assassinated.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
I believed that for me, Obama won the debate over McCain. American people needs a change, and it will be Obama.
More anecdotal nonsense from the Republican party. They can't provide firm, hard numbers, so they tell us more bedtime stories.
Problem is, bedtime stories don't solve our nation's problems. And when our presidential candidate decides to make one the focus of a debate, one has to question why he does not want facts, figures, and hard truth taking center stage.
When in doubt rely on anecdote - the refugee of woo-woo everywhere.
In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.
-Thomas Jefferson
Ohnoes, I can't afford the pool and sportscar I wanted within a short timespan!
Really, a free healthcare and improved social welfare would be good for USA in overall as it would increase the amount of people being able to work and get jobs.
Moar jobs = moar tax money.
Personally, I think the wellbeing of the populace in overall is more important than being able to earn lots of money within a short time-span. I know that alot of people think that earning lots of money is important, but I would prefer a free healthcare and improved welfare. Ilive in Sweden, I got high taxes and I manage to do just fine.
YOu know why? Because I work hard AND save money as well as spend oon things I need before spending on things I want.
PS. The american dream is an illusion and has always been, more people in Sweden starts up their own companies and work hard are successful than the people in USA. Also, sauce to back me up www.salasweb.info/mobilityF.pdf
"Personally, I think the wellbeing of the populace in overall is more important than being able to earn lots of money within a short time-span."
That is all well and good in the ideal sense, however, by spreading the wealth around, this lessens the incentive for people to work harder. One such example is of two girls I met once in Australia, who did not work as they collected the government income and blowing it on the horse races, while drinking their Rum & Coke (sold from a vending machine).
"PS. The american dream is an illusion and has always been, more people in Sweden starts up their own companies and work hard are successful than the people in USA."
Negative.
Sweden has a population of 9 million compared to the US of 300 million.
More than 450,000 people in the US start-up new business every month.
There are 25.5 million Small Businesses in the US as to, if I read this correctly, under 1 million for Sweden
Of Forbes Top 2000 Global Companies, Sweden only has 29, the US has over 550.
The American Dream is still going on, even during a down turn.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Except that is not what is happening at all. Joe the plumber wants to buy the business that he works for, for about 250-280k. It has been confirmed by him in an interview, that he is NOT expecting to -make- 250k a year, or anywhere near that.
Is it really any surprise that all of our businesses are moving oversea's?
If I was the owner of a business, small or big, with the extra stipulations and taxes that have been added, and are going to be added, I'd move oversea's. I don't give a rats ass about my country anymore. The thing that made this country great was freedom, especially freedom to make something of your life and not be punished for it.
The greatness of ones country lies within the hearts of it's people, and the hearts of my countries people has turned corrupt. The pride of yesteryear, is long gone.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
why would you move overseas, europe is practically all socialist LOL
why would you move overseas, europe is practically all socialist LOL
Speaking further east. India, China, etc.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
If you can't get a country with a small federal government, and a descently sized state government. Then you might as well go for the next best thing. Thats the United States. Even if Barrack becomes president, the US will still be the least stringent, least rascist, and most equal to oppurtunity country on Earth. I would never leave the US unless our governemtn really screws up, and if that happens there will probably be a revolution then mass migration movement.
why would you move overseas, europe is practically all socialist LOL
Speaking further east. India, China, etc.
china is communist, and India is...? people rather live there than america/????
why would you move overseas, europe is practically all socialist LOL
Speaking further east. India, China, etc.
china is communist, and India is...? people rather live there than america/????
Contrary to popular belief, their economy is not communist. It's actually put into many laissez-faire market practices. Which is why in recent years they've been booming so much economically.
As for India. I'm not speaking about living as a citizen, but a person who runs a business.
If it was as a citizen, hell, I'd move to new zealand, ireland, maybe italy.
Talking about what's best for business.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979