What you want is instant gratification, reward without work. Your analogy is moot, the genre in general is the reference to the instrument, regardless of the one I use for a comparison.
No, what I want is reward that is worth the work. I appreciate that for you the pride of character, raid achievements and whatever else is worth it. For most of us it is not. It's repetitive and boring.
I've spent over 20 years practicing and getting better at playing drums. I would not spend that time on Guitar Hero, as you say. To me, dikuMUD, UO, EQ, WoW and all the other clones are *all* Guitar Hero.
well this was an entertaining "I hate WoW fest". 8 pages of people tripping over themselves to prove who hates WoW the most, like it is some sort of status symbol. you all sound like those old men that whine about having to walk through 20 feet of snow, barefoot, up a mountain to get to school while the young whippersnappers get to ride a bus. I understand that hating WoW is the "cool" thing to do, and everyone wants everyone else to think they are "grown" just because they don't play WoW. but imo, WoW is fun. despite all the criticism you can level at the game, it is fun. in my opinion. and that's why I still play it. because fun is the bottom line, and no matter what, you should play what is fun to you. and since I know one of you is going to suggest this, I am not at all a "newbie" to MMORPGs, and WoW wasn't my first MMO. I've played EQ, EQ2, Asheron's Call, Asheron's Call 2, Earth and Beyond, EVE, DAoC, City of Heroes/Villains, Planetside, Anarchy Online, Lord of The Rings Online, Tabula Rasa, and WoW. i'm sure there is a game or two that I am missing but yeah, I've got MMO experience. WoW is just the game I have chosen to play currently. I go to the other games forums to check up on them and gather opinions in case I want to switch games. but all I see in this forum is different variations of "cool kids" screaming "I hate WoW" at the top of their lungs and hoping someone hears them and says "you're cool dude", and arguing with WoW fanboys about it. but then again, this is the case in a majority of MMO forums. it seems that people are more interested in bashing WoW than talking about their own game. pretty funny to me, really.
Ive made my points in a valid concise manner, all youve done is name call in an attempt to defame other peoples opinions, all the while proving you think your opinion is worth something when no one elses is.
You are a hypocrite.
Were all here to express our opinions, and no ones is worth more than anyone elses, get it through your head that were entitled to that, and you arent any better than anyone else.
As far as "Cool kids" Im older than you, and I have plenty of valid reasons for not liking wow, and no amount of your childish name calling is going to detract from how I feel about the game.
I can't honestly say I care what you think of the game. and you can have your reasons for not liking WoW, just like I have my reasons for liking it. I never at all said that you could not. I was, as you say, just expressing my opinion. I don't think my opinion of more important than anyone elses. not at all.
you just didn't like what I had to say. simple as that. and since you didn't like what I had to say, you write it off as "childish" because I didn't say anything that could be or requires refuting.
and congrats for being 28+. but it is a mentality I am talking about, not a number.
my basic point here, was that this thread was an entertaining read. and that i find it amusing that people enjoy bashing WoW so much rather than talking about their own game.
and *chuckle* @ "defaming others opinions"
so yeah, I'm here to express my opinion, just like you are. don't like it? tough.
as I said, I come here to read constructive talk about Warhammer, and the majority of what I see is "I hate WoW" and "Warhammer sucks durrrrrrr*.
I used the term childish in order to illustrate your own misuse of "old men" funny isnt it, You dont want to be disrespected for your opinion but you want to be disrepsectful to other for theirs. Hypocritical.
Back on topic, Im glad you like the game, Im just not glad it turned the genre into a breeding ground for 1337 speak, solo playing, and disrespectful attitudes.
What you want is instant gratification, reward without work. Your analogy is moot, the genre in general is the reference to the instrument, regardless of the one I use for a comparison.
No, what I want is reward that is worth the work. I appreciate that for you the pride of character, raid achievements and whatever else is worth it. For most of us it is not. It's repetitive and boring.
I've spent over 20 years practicing and getting better at playing drums. I would not spend that time on Guitar Hero, as you say. To me, dikuMUD, UO, EQ, WoW and all the other clones are *all* Guitar Hero.
So what you are saying is that you wouldnt be offended by someone who picked up a copy of Rock Band, and theyre saying "This is great, I dont know why people waste 20 years playing real drums"
well this was an entertaining "I hate WoW fest". 8 pages of people tripping over themselves to prove who hates WoW the most, like it is some sort of status symbol. you all sound like those old men that whine about having to walk through 20 feet of snow, barefoot, up a mountain to get to school while the young whippersnappers get to ride a bus. I understand that hating WoW is the "cool" thing to do, and everyone wants everyone else to think they are "grown" just because they don't play WoW. but imo, WoW is fun. despite all the criticism you can level at the game, it is fun. in my opinion. and that's why I still play it. because fun is the bottom line, and no matter what, you should play what is fun to you. and since I know one of you is going to suggest this, I am not at all a "newbie" to MMORPGs, and WoW wasn't my first MMO. I've played EQ, EQ2, Asheron's Call, Asheron's Call 2, Earth and Beyond, EVE, DAoC, City of Heroes/Villains, Planetside, Anarchy Online, Lord of The Rings Online, Tabula Rasa, and WoW. i'm sure there is a game or two that I am missing but yeah, I've got MMO experience. WoW is just the game I have chosen to play currently. I go to the other games forums to check up on them and gather opinions in case I want to switch games. but all I see in this forum is different variations of "cool kids" screaming "I hate WoW" at the top of their lungs and hoping someone hears them and says "you're cool dude", and arguing with WoW fanboys about it. but then again, this is the case in a majority of MMO forums. it seems that people are more interested in bashing WoW than talking about their own game. pretty funny to me, really.
Ive made my points in a valid concise manner, all youve done is name call in an attempt to defame other peoples opinions, all the while proving you think your opinion is worth something when no one elses is.
You are a hypocrite.
Were all here to express our opinions, and no ones is worth more than anyone elses, get it through your head that were entitled to that, and you arent any better than anyone else.
As far as "Cool kids" Im older than you, and I have plenty of valid reasons for not liking wow, and no amount of your childish name calling is going to detract from how I feel about the game.
I can't honestly say I care what you think of the game. and you can have your reasons for not liking WoW, just like I have my reasons for liking it. I never at all said that you could not. I was, as you say, just expressing my opinion. I don't think my opinion of more important than anyone elses. not at all.
you just didn't like what I had to say. simple as that. and since you didn't like what I had to say, you write it off as "childish" because I didn't say anything that could be or requires refuting.
and congrats for being 28+. but it is a mentality I am talking about, not a number.
my basic point here, was that this thread was an entertaining read. and that i find it amusing that people enjoy bashing WoW so much rather than talking about their own game.
and *chuckle* @ "defaming others opinions"
so yeah, I'm here to express my opinion, just like you are. don't like it? tough.
as I said, I come here to read constructive talk about Warhammer, and the majority of what I see is "I hate WoW" and "Warhammer sucks durrrrrrr*.
I used the term childish in order to illustrate your own misuse of "old men" funny isnt it, You dont want to be disrespected for your opinion but you want to be disrepsectful to other for theirs. Hypocritical.
Back on topic, Im glad you like the game, Im just not glad it turned the genre into a breeding ground for 1337 speak, solo playing, and disrespectful attitudes.
I'm sorry if you were led to the conclusion that I feel disrespected, because I don't. this isn't an "I won the argument" or "you won the argument" thing. I made a commentary, and you were offended by it. that's all it is. I really don't feel either way about it, so do whatever makes you feel better.
either way, point me to the constructive Warhammer discussion, please. I'd like to get some real impressions of the game beyond "WoW sucks" and "Warhammer sucks"
well this was an entertaining "I hate WoW fest". 8 pages of people tripping over themselves to prove who hates WoW the most, like it is some sort of status symbol. you all sound like those old men that whine about having to walk through 20 feet of snow, barefoot, up a mountain to get to school while the young whippersnappers get to ride a bus. I understand that hating WoW is the "cool" thing to do, and everyone wants everyone else to think they are "grown" just because they don't play WoW. but imo, WoW is fun. despite all the criticism you can level at the game, it is fun. in my opinion. and that's why I still play it. because fun is the bottom line, and no matter what, you should play what is fun to you. and since I know one of you is going to suggest this, I am not at all a "newbie" to MMORPGs, and WoW wasn't my first MMO. I've played EQ, EQ2, Asheron's Call, Asheron's Call 2, Earth and Beyond, EVE, DAoC, City of Heroes/Villains, Planetside, Anarchy Online, Lord of The Rings Online, Tabula Rasa, and WoW. i'm sure there is a game or two that I am missing but yeah, I've got MMO experience. WoW is just the game I have chosen to play currently. I go to the other games forums to check up on them and gather opinions in case I want to switch games. but all I see in this forum is different variations of "cool kids" screaming "I hate WoW" at the top of their lungs and hoping someone hears them and says "you're cool dude", and arguing with WoW fanboys about it. but then again, this is the case in a majority of MMO forums. it seems that people are more interested in bashing WoW than talking about their own game. pretty funny to me, really.
Ive made my points in a valid concise manner, all youve done is name call in an attempt to defame other peoples opinions, all the while proving you think your opinion is worth something when no one elses is.
You are a hypocrite.
Were all here to express our opinions, and no ones is worth more than anyone elses, get it through your head that were entitled to that, and you arent any better than anyone else.
As far as "Cool kids" Im older than you, and I have plenty of valid reasons for not liking wow, and no amount of your childish name calling is going to detract from how I feel about the game.
I can't honestly say I care what you think of the game. and you can have your reasons for not liking WoW, just like I have my reasons for liking it. I never at all said that you could not. I was, as you say, just expressing my opinion. I don't think my opinion of more important than anyone elses. not at all.
you just didn't like what I had to say. simple as that. and since you didn't like what I had to say, you write it off as "childish" because I didn't say anything that could be or requires refuting.
and congrats for being 28+. but it is a mentality I am talking about, not a number.
my basic point here, was that this thread was an entertaining read. and that i find it amusing that people enjoy bashing WoW so much rather than talking about their own game.
and *chuckle* @ "defaming others opinions"
so yeah, I'm here to express my opinion, just like you are. don't like it? tough.
as I said, I come here to read constructive talk about Warhammer, and the majority of what I see is "I hate WoW" and "Warhammer sucks durrrrrrr*.
I used the term childish in order to illustrate your own misuse of "old men" funny isnt it, You dont want to be disrespected for your opinion but you want to be disrepsectful to other for theirs. Hypocritical.
Back on topic, Im glad you like the game, Im just not glad it turned the genre into a breeding ground for 1337 speak, solo playing, and disrespectful attitudes.
I'm sorry if you were led to the conclusion that I feel disrespected, because I don't. this isn't an "I won the argument" or "you won the argument" thing. I made a commentary, and you were offended by it. that's all it is. I really don't feel either way about it, so do whatever makes you feel better.
either way, point me to the constructive Warhammer discussion, please. I'd like to get some real impressions of the game beyond "WoW sucks" and "Warhammer sucks"
well this was an entertaining "I hate WoW fest". 8 pages of people tripping over themselves to prove who hates WoW the most, like it is some sort of status symbol. you all sound like those old men that whine about having to walk through 20 feet of snow, barefoot, up a mountain to get to school while the young whippersnappers get to ride a bus. I understand that hating WoW is the "cool" thing to do, and everyone wants everyone else to think they are "grown" just because they don't play WoW. but imo, WoW is fun. despite all the criticism you can level at the game, it is fun. in my opinion. and that's why I still play it. because fun is the bottom line, and no matter what, you should play what is fun to you. and since I know one of you is going to suggest this, I am not at all a "newbie" to MMORPGs, and WoW wasn't my first MMO. I've played EQ, EQ2, Asheron's Call, Asheron's Call 2, Earth and Beyond, EVE, DAoC, City of Heroes/Villains, Planetside, Anarchy Online, Lord of The Rings Online, Tabula Rasa, and WoW. i'm sure there is a game or two that I am missing but yeah, I've got MMO experience. WoW is just the game I have chosen to play currently. I go to the other games forums to check up on them and gather opinions in case I want to switch games. but all I see in this forum is different variations of "cool kids" screaming "I hate WoW" at the top of their lungs and hoping someone hears them and says "you're cool dude", and arguing with WoW fanboys about it. but then again, this is the case in a majority of MMO forums. it seems that people are more interested in bashing WoW than talking about their own game. pretty funny to me, really.
Ive made my points in a valid concise manner, all youve done is name call in an attempt to defame other peoples opinions, all the while proving you think your opinion is worth something when no one elses is.
You are a hypocrite.
Were all here to express our opinions, and no ones is worth more than anyone elses, get it through your head that were entitled to that, and you arent any better than anyone else.
As far as "Cool kids" Im older than you, and I have plenty of valid reasons for not liking wow, and no amount of your childish name calling is going to detract from how I feel about the game.
I can't honestly say I care what you think of the game. and you can have your reasons for not liking WoW, just like I have my reasons for liking it. I never at all said that you could not. I was, as you say, just expressing my opinion. I don't think my opinion of more important than anyone elses. not at all.
you just didn't like what I had to say. simple as that. and since you didn't like what I had to say, you write it off as "childish" because I didn't say anything that could be or requires refuting.
and congrats for being 28+. but it is a mentality I am talking about, not a number.
my basic point here, was that this thread was an entertaining read. and that i find it amusing that people enjoy bashing WoW so much rather than talking about their own game.
and *chuckle* @ "defaming others opinions"
so yeah, I'm here to express my opinion, just like you are. don't like it? tough.
as I said, I come here to read constructive talk about Warhammer, and the majority of what I see is "I hate WoW" and "Warhammer sucks durrrrrrr*.
I used the term childish in order to illustrate your own misuse of "old men" funny isnt it, You dont want to be disrespected for your opinion but you want to be disrepsectful to other for theirs. Hypocritical.
Back on topic, Im glad you like the game, Im just not glad it turned the genre into a breeding ground for 1337 speak, solo playing, and disrespectful attitudes.
I'm sorry if you were led to the conclusion that I feel disrespected, because I don't. this isn't an "I won the argument" or "you won the argument" thing. I made a commentary, and you were offended by it. that's all it is. I really don't feel either way about it, so do whatever makes you feel better.
either way, point me to the constructive Warhammer discussion, please. I'd like to get some real impressions of the game beyond "WoW sucks" and "Warhammer sucks"
You wouldnt have responded if you werent.
sure I would. responding doesn't automatically mean offended. if I were offended, I'd be a lot more aggressive and insulting in my comments. but I'm not, at least I don't think so. just goes to show that you don't know people as much as you think you do.
i dont see a problem in stealing an idea by one company or the other .besides if comapnies like ea and blizzard dont have problem stealing eachother ideas ??then why are u guys mumbering and blazing eachother??the whole idea of forums on mmorpg is crap .there should be separate topic where people can blaze eachother and dont respect eachother :PPPPPPPPPPP
This thread made my day... in form of irony and pure laugh!
WAR complaining about WoW taking some ideas from it.... it's like a thief complaining about getting his stolen goods, stolen by the one he stole from. I mean what a cracked up hilarious arguement that would be.
Bottom line is if developers did not take other ideas and evolve them we would all be playing pacman and space invaders.
Take WoW's seige warfare.. its leaps and bounds ahead of what WAR and AOC has given us, in fact I dont know of an MMO or even a single player game where the seige warfare is as developed as WoW's.
And I have read over some of these posts that talk about blizzard being sued and having to pay games workshop money and that WC and even SC was ment to be Warhammer/40k... thats not true, atleast no one can produce eveidence of this.
Bottom line is if developers did not take other ideas and evolve them we would all be playing pacman and space invaders. Take WoW's seige warfare.. its leaps and bounds ahead of what WAR and AOC has given us, in fact I dont know of an MMO or even a single player game where the seige warfare is as developed as WoW's. And I have read over some of these posts that talk about blizzard being sued and having to pay games workshop money and that WC and even SC was ment to be Warhammer/40k... thats not true, atleast no one can produce eveidence of this.
Based on your Blizzard sig, Id imagine even if someone did produce evidence, youd still refute it. Its obvious where your loyalties lie, and Im betting OJs friends said "We know you didnt do it"
I'm still waiting for someone to give me a single unique feature WoW has that wasn't done better in another MMO.
The only unique thing WoW did was make a casual MMO for the kids that haven't figured out basic math yet, because thats about as complicated as WoW gets. It is EverQuest watered down, plain and simple, every single mechanic.
Bottom line is if developers did not take other ideas and evolve them we would all be playing pacman and space invaders. Take WoW's seige warfare.. its leaps and bounds ahead of what WAR and AOC has given us, in fact I dont know of an MMO or even a single player game where the seige warfare is as developed as WoW's. And I have read over some of these posts that talk about blizzard being sued and having to pay games workshop money and that WC and even SC was ment to be Warhammer/40k... thats not true, atleast no one can produce eveidence of this.
WoW's siege warfare? Don't even try, don't even try. WoW does not have "siege warfare". Dark Age of Camelot has siege warfare. It has boiling oil, trebuchets, catapults, siege towers, balistas, rams of all shapes and sizes. Dark Age of Camelot did siege right, WoW made a cheap knock off. Story of its life.
There is no game around that can touch DAoC RvR, the only one that comes close is Warhammer.
WoW is a consumer whore. UO, and EQ, those guys had vision, and their games at the time were an ARTFORM, a living breathing creation the likes of which had never been seen before. WoW pretty much said "Screw the genre, LETS MAKE SOME CASH!" Theyve flooded the genre with people I generally dont want to be around in my games. I could give a rats ass if its a popular game, or if every sentient being in the universe subscribed to it, its still little more than a watered down EQ that single handedly ruined the direction MMOs were originally headed. Its a damn shame people defend it, it completely stunted the growth of MMOs, and for that, and the obnoxious people it has brought into the genre, I positively hate it.
Wow is hardly the problem . Name some games coming out at the same time as Wow that were'nt level based and didnt lead you from zone to zone .... there arent many , and If you can name them , more than likely they werent worth playing.
The problem lies with the companies making trash games and releasing too early. You could do that back in the day ...today If you do it , it kills your game. I loved UO , never got to play EQ2 and SWG was great even with the bugs. But alot of free range given to players just isnt going to happen anymore. You can thank exploiters and griefers for that.
I do agree about the obnoxious amount of people it has brought into gaming ...highly unfortunate. In some older mmorpgs , reputation mattered and you would get blacklisted. Either that or hang otut with the other few degenerates there were floating in the game. Today in games such as WOW or EQ2 ...rep doesnt matter in the overall scheme of things. There are just so many people playing not to mention the amount of alts most play on. You hardly ever see a person not able to get a group even if hes a jerk, ninja looter etc etc
Thats not true, WOW has stolen many ideas from other mmo's. Prime example WAR had the achievement system and the titles 1st, and in WOW's latest patch its in there, but the patch has jacked up their servers alot. A few friends of mine have said since the patch they can't logon because of the authentication servers are screwed up and others who have gotten in just for a short time have said its laggy and they usually get booted to the desktop....This is your example of WOW fanbois claiming that WOW takes ideas and perfects them...lol perfects them into lagged servers and authentication issues...The road is set and WOW is going down the wrong way.....its a matter of time...and WOTLK will be the last straw for many...guarentee it
Well if Warhammer had 10 million subscribers they would probably also have server and authentication issues. It's not that they are that bad in WoW for that matter... I experienced some lagged servers in WAR at the launch as well.
There is a big problem with threads like this, namely that while the fanbois of WoW say that Blizzard takes what already exists and polish it, making it better, the fanbois of other games (in this case WAR) say that they have invented everything. These views do not really match well for argumentation.
I seldom read any threads by WoW players that say that the new features are original but obviously you (author of quoted post, and others as well) wrongly do say that Warhammer is the source of originality, in this case the achievment system.
Maybe you should play some other games to broaden your point of view. LOTRO for example?
Why even bother what other does? Just play what is fun and be happy with that... let companies copy as much as they want, in the end that is good for us players.
The only really original part in Warhammer as I see it are the public quests... something which is quite fun, but also something that Mythic obviously liked so much so they threw in three additional PQ's per chapter that noone plays.
There will probaly never come another mmorpg that is truly original in the future (at least that will succeed well). Who wins is the one that take what is and makes it better. That is what Blizzard does, and that is what Mythic tries to do.
I'm still waiting for someone to give me a single unique feature WoW has that wasn't done better in another MMO. The only unique thing WoW did was make a casual MMO for the kids that haven't figured out basic math yet, because thats about as complicated as WoW gets. It is EverQuest watered down, plain and simple, every single mechanic.
The only unique thing that email did was make a casual mode of communication for the kids that haven't figured out basic horseback riding yet, because thats about as complicated as email gets. It is pony express watered down, plain and simple, every single mechanic.
What you want is instant gratification, reward without work. Your analogy is moot, the genre in general is the reference to the instrument, regardless of the one I use for a comparison.
No, what I want is reward that is worth the work. I appreciate that for you the pride of character, raid achievements and whatever else is worth it. For most of us it is not. It's repetitive and boring.
I've spent over 20 years practicing and getting better at playing drums. I would not spend that time on Guitar Hero, as you say. To me, dikuMUD, UO, EQ, WoW and all the other clones are *all* Guitar Hero.
So what you are saying is that you wouldnt be offended by someone who picked up a copy of Rock Band, and theyre saying "This is great, I dont know why people waste 20 years playing real drums"
Offended? Of course not. They can play what they want, it doesn't take anything away from my enjoyment of jamming. A little sad perhaps, which is natural anytime things move on. For most people the next MMO will never be as good as that original experience, regardless of the game.
I'm still waiting for someone to give me a single unique feature WoW has that wasn't done better in another MMO. The only unique thing WoW did was make a casual MMO for the kids that haven't figured out basic math yet, because thats about as complicated as WoW gets. It is EverQuest watered down, plain and simple, every single mechanic.
The only unique thing that email did was make a casual mode of communication for the kids that haven't figured out basic horseback riding yet, because thats about as complicated as email gets. It is pony express watered down, plain and simple, every single mechanic.
I'm still waiting for someone to give me a single unique feature WoW has that wasn't done better in another MMO. The only unique thing WoW did was make a casual MMO for the kids that haven't figured out basic math yet, because thats about as complicated as WoW gets. It is EverQuest watered down, plain and simple, every single mechanic.
The only unique thing that email did was make a casual mode of communication for the kids that haven't figured out basic horseback riding yet, because thats about as complicated as email gets. It is pony express watered down, plain and simple, every single mechanic.
Damn Signus, you got served!!
That analogy made absolutely no sense at all. You cannot compare the passing of information getting faster, to a company that has never had a single idea in its entire conception. I mean, cool analogy, but it doesn't old any weight.
I'm still waiting for someone to give me a single unique feature WoW has that wasn't done better in another MMO. The only unique thing WoW did was make a casual MMO for the kids that haven't figured out basic math yet, because thats about as complicated as WoW gets. It is EverQuest watered down, plain and simple, every single mechanic.
The only unique thing that email did was make a casual mode of communication for the kids that haven't figured out basic horseback riding yet, because thats about as complicated as email gets. It is pony express watered down, plain and simple, every single mechanic.
Damn Signus, you got served!!
That analogy made absolutely no sense at all. You cannot compare the passing of information getting faster, to a company that has never had a single idea in its entire conception. I mean, cool analogy, but it doesn't old any weight.
I'm still waiting for someone to give me a single unique feature WoW has that wasn't done better in another MMO. The only unique thing WoW did was make a casual MMO for the kids that haven't figured out basic math yet, because thats about as complicated as WoW gets. It is EverQuest watered down, plain and simple, every single mechanic.
The only unique thing that email did was make a casual mode of communication for the kids that haven't figured out basic horseback riding yet, because thats about as complicated as email gets. It is pony express watered down, plain and simple, every single mechanic.
Damn Signus, you got served!!
That analogy made absolutely no sense at all. You cannot compare the passing of information getting faster, to a company that has never had a single idea in its entire conception. I mean, cool analogy, but it doesn't old any weight.
Ah, the trick is: neither does yours.
I didn't make an analogy. Go back to grade school kid.
Like I've said before, theres a difference between building on what came before, and stealing every single piece of it and adding nothing new.
DAoC added RvR to the EverQuest formula. WoW...just has the EverQuest formula with sprinklings from other games. Nothing really new.
In the game industry, theres nothing wrong with taking a good idea and bringing it to your game. Of course directly copying it is wrong but if they can integrate it well, then all is good. I mean hey, its not as if WAR won't borrow ideas from other MMO's on the market, in fact they'd be foolish not to.
Achievements are not something made originally by WAR anyway. Xbox Live was the first to have achievements and more or loss a lot of games are trying to copy that success with various degrees of success
I mean, why can't they just make their own game and be happy. The new WOTLK expansion is stealing even MORE ideas from Warhammer. Not like they didn't do enough when blizzard basically copied the whole concept and artwork of Warhammer. But now they're taking more of the great ideas of Mythic.
In WOTLK, you will be able to queue to BG's anywhere. You will be able to earn EXP from PVP and obtain random gear drops from PVP. They're adding a whole zone just for PVP as well as siege weapons.
The list goes on of what they're 'stealing' from WAR and what they've already stolen from the Warhammer Ip and other games.
When will they make their "own" game? When I look at WoW, I just see a bunch of other great concepts smashed into one. It's like Runescape but in third person.
/discuss
Well if your serious Warhammer could be concidered a bigger theif when it comes to unoriginality when it comes down to it because their crimes go back to the days of P&P and miniture gameing. Games workshop created it to try to leech off of Dungeons & Dragons. Unless your playing D&D you have no right to question any originality in this genre of game.
I'm still waiting for someone to give me a single unique feature WoW has that wasn't done better in another MMO. The only unique thing WoW did was make a casual MMO for the kids that haven't figured out basic math yet, because thats about as complicated as WoW gets. It is EverQuest watered down, plain and simple, every single mechanic.
The only unique thing that email did was make a casual mode of communication for the kids that haven't figured out basic horseback riding yet, because thats about as complicated as email gets. It is pony express watered down, plain and simple, every single mechanic.
Damn Signus, you got served!!
That analogy made absolutely no sense at all. You cannot compare the passing of information getting faster, to a company that has never had a single idea in its entire conception. I mean, cool analogy, but it doesn't old any weight.
Ah, the trick is: neither does yours.
I didn't make an analogy. Go back to grade school kid.
Like I've said before, theres a difference between building on what came before, and stealing every single piece of it and adding nothing new.
DAoC added RvR to the EverQuest formula. WoW...just has the EverQuest formula with sprinklings from other games. Nothing really new.
No, you didn't make an analogy. You made a broadly ridiculous argument that feature lists define quality and that something simpler must be worse. I replied with an equally absurd argument based on that assumption. It's a rhetorical device called reducto ad absurdum. Can we move away from the pissing contest now? Calling people "kid" on the internet just makes you look bad. If you want to talk details rather than sound bites, it takes a lot longer and isn't nearly as entertaining.
I'll toss this one out. WoW made a simpler leveling experience, the combination of many features and design decisions, that vastly more people found more entertaining than the system in EQ, DAoC, EQ2, etc... Is that a novel feature? Who cares. Entertaining to lots of people is about as good a metric as you'll get for the quality of a game.
Comments
No, what I want is reward that is worth the work. I appreciate that for you the pride of character, raid achievements and whatever else is worth it. For most of us it is not. It's repetitive and boring.
I've spent over 20 years practicing and getting better at playing drums. I would not spend that time on Guitar Hero, as you say. To me, dikuMUD, UO, EQ, WoW and all the other clones are *all* Guitar Hero.
Ive made my points in a valid concise manner, all youve done is name call in an attempt to defame other peoples opinions, all the while proving you think your opinion is worth something when no one elses is.
You are a hypocrite.
Were all here to express our opinions, and no ones is worth more than anyone elses, get it through your head that were entitled to that, and you arent any better than anyone else.
As far as "Cool kids" Im older than you, and I have plenty of valid reasons for not liking wow, and no amount of your childish name calling is going to detract from how I feel about the game.
I can't honestly say I care what you think of the game. and you can have your reasons for not liking WoW, just like I have my reasons for liking it. I never at all said that you could not. I was, as you say, just expressing my opinion. I don't think my opinion of more important than anyone elses. not at all.
you just didn't like what I had to say. simple as that. and since you didn't like what I had to say, you write it off as "childish" because I didn't say anything that could be or requires refuting.
and congrats for being 28+. but it is a mentality I am talking about, not a number.
my basic point here, was that this thread was an entertaining read. and that i find it amusing that people enjoy bashing WoW so much rather than talking about their own game.
and *chuckle* @ "defaming others opinions"
so yeah, I'm here to express my opinion, just like you are. don't like it? tough.
as I said, I come here to read constructive talk about Warhammer, and the majority of what I see is "I hate WoW" and "Warhammer sucks durrrrrrr*.
I used the term childish in order to illustrate your own misuse of "old men" funny isnt it, You dont want to be disrespected for your opinion but you want to be disrepsectful to other for theirs. Hypocritical.
Back on topic, Im glad you like the game, Im just not glad it turned the genre into a breeding ground for 1337 speak, solo playing, and disrespectful attitudes.
No, what I want is reward that is worth the work. I appreciate that for you the pride of character, raid achievements and whatever else is worth it. For most of us it is not. It's repetitive and boring.
I've spent over 20 years practicing and getting better at playing drums. I would not spend that time on Guitar Hero, as you say. To me, dikuMUD, UO, EQ, WoW and all the other clones are *all* Guitar Hero.
So what you are saying is that you wouldnt be offended by someone who picked up a copy of Rock Band, and theyre saying "This is great, I dont know why people waste 20 years playing real drums"
Ive made my points in a valid concise manner, all youve done is name call in an attempt to defame other peoples opinions, all the while proving you think your opinion is worth something when no one elses is.
You are a hypocrite.
Were all here to express our opinions, and no ones is worth more than anyone elses, get it through your head that were entitled to that, and you arent any better than anyone else.
As far as "Cool kids" Im older than you, and I have plenty of valid reasons for not liking wow, and no amount of your childish name calling is going to detract from how I feel about the game.
I can't honestly say I care what you think of the game. and you can have your reasons for not liking WoW, just like I have my reasons for liking it. I never at all said that you could not. I was, as you say, just expressing my opinion. I don't think my opinion of more important than anyone elses. not at all.
you just didn't like what I had to say. simple as that. and since you didn't like what I had to say, you write it off as "childish" because I didn't say anything that could be or requires refuting.
and congrats for being 28+. but it is a mentality I am talking about, not a number.
my basic point here, was that this thread was an entertaining read. and that i find it amusing that people enjoy bashing WoW so much rather than talking about their own game.
and *chuckle* @ "defaming others opinions"
so yeah, I'm here to express my opinion, just like you are. don't like it? tough.
as I said, I come here to read constructive talk about Warhammer, and the majority of what I see is "I hate WoW" and "Warhammer sucks durrrrrrr*.
I used the term childish in order to illustrate your own misuse of "old men" funny isnt it, You dont want to be disrespected for your opinion but you want to be disrepsectful to other for theirs. Hypocritical.
Back on topic, Im glad you like the game, Im just not glad it turned the genre into a breeding ground for 1337 speak, solo playing, and disrespectful attitudes.
I'm sorry if you were led to the conclusion that I feel disrespected, because I don't. this isn't an "I won the argument" or "you won the argument" thing. I made a commentary, and you were offended by it. that's all it is. I really don't feel either way about it, so do whatever makes you feel better.
either way, point me to the constructive Warhammer discussion, please. I'd like to get some real impressions of the game beyond "WoW sucks" and "Warhammer sucks"
Ive made my points in a valid concise manner, all youve done is name call in an attempt to defame other peoples opinions, all the while proving you think your opinion is worth something when no one elses is.
You are a hypocrite.
Were all here to express our opinions, and no ones is worth more than anyone elses, get it through your head that were entitled to that, and you arent any better than anyone else.
As far as "Cool kids" Im older than you, and I have plenty of valid reasons for not liking wow, and no amount of your childish name calling is going to detract from how I feel about the game.
I can't honestly say I care what you think of the game. and you can have your reasons for not liking WoW, just like I have my reasons for liking it. I never at all said that you could not. I was, as you say, just expressing my opinion. I don't think my opinion of more important than anyone elses. not at all.
you just didn't like what I had to say. simple as that. and since you didn't like what I had to say, you write it off as "childish" because I didn't say anything that could be or requires refuting.
and congrats for being 28+. but it is a mentality I am talking about, not a number.
my basic point here, was that this thread was an entertaining read. and that i find it amusing that people enjoy bashing WoW so much rather than talking about their own game.
and *chuckle* @ "defaming others opinions"
so yeah, I'm here to express my opinion, just like you are. don't like it? tough.
as I said, I come here to read constructive talk about Warhammer, and the majority of what I see is "I hate WoW" and "Warhammer sucks durrrrrrr*.
I used the term childish in order to illustrate your own misuse of "old men" funny isnt it, You dont want to be disrespected for your opinion but you want to be disrepsectful to other for theirs. Hypocritical.
Back on topic, Im glad you like the game, Im just not glad it turned the genre into a breeding ground for 1337 speak, solo playing, and disrespectful attitudes.
I'm sorry if you were led to the conclusion that I feel disrespected, because I don't. this isn't an "I won the argument" or "you won the argument" thing. I made a commentary, and you were offended by it. that's all it is. I really don't feel either way about it, so do whatever makes you feel better.
either way, point me to the constructive Warhammer discussion, please. I'd like to get some real impressions of the game beyond "WoW sucks" and "Warhammer sucks"
You wouldnt have responded if you werent.
Ive made my points in a valid concise manner, all youve done is name call in an attempt to defame other peoples opinions, all the while proving you think your opinion is worth something when no one elses is.
You are a hypocrite.
Were all here to express our opinions, and no ones is worth more than anyone elses, get it through your head that were entitled to that, and you arent any better than anyone else.
As far as "Cool kids" Im older than you, and I have plenty of valid reasons for not liking wow, and no amount of your childish name calling is going to detract from how I feel about the game.
I can't honestly say I care what you think of the game. and you can have your reasons for not liking WoW, just like I have my reasons for liking it. I never at all said that you could not. I was, as you say, just expressing my opinion. I don't think my opinion of more important than anyone elses. not at all.
you just didn't like what I had to say. simple as that. and since you didn't like what I had to say, you write it off as "childish" because I didn't say anything that could be or requires refuting.
and congrats for being 28+. but it is a mentality I am talking about, not a number.
my basic point here, was that this thread was an entertaining read. and that i find it amusing that people enjoy bashing WoW so much rather than talking about their own game.
and *chuckle* @ "defaming others opinions"
so yeah, I'm here to express my opinion, just like you are. don't like it? tough.
as I said, I come here to read constructive talk about Warhammer, and the majority of what I see is "I hate WoW" and "Warhammer sucks durrrrrrr*.
I used the term childish in order to illustrate your own misuse of "old men" funny isnt it, You dont want to be disrespected for your opinion but you want to be disrepsectful to other for theirs. Hypocritical.
Back on topic, Im glad you like the game, Im just not glad it turned the genre into a breeding ground for 1337 speak, solo playing, and disrespectful attitudes.
I'm sorry if you were led to the conclusion that I feel disrespected, because I don't. this isn't an "I won the argument" or "you won the argument" thing. I made a commentary, and you were offended by it. that's all it is. I really don't feel either way about it, so do whatever makes you feel better.
either way, point me to the constructive Warhammer discussion, please. I'd like to get some real impressions of the game beyond "WoW sucks" and "Warhammer sucks"
You wouldnt have responded if you werent.
sure I would. responding doesn't automatically mean offended. if I were offended, I'd be a lot more aggressive and insulting in my comments. but I'm not, at least I don't think so. just goes to show that you don't know people as much as you think you do.
now then, constructive warhammer impressions?
It s the only chance Blizzard has to be upt to date thats all.
i dont see a problem in stealing an idea by one company or the other .besides if comapnies like ea and blizzard dont have problem stealing eachother ideas ??then why are u guys mumbering and blazing eachother??the whole idea of forums on mmorpg is crap .there should be separate topic where people can blaze eachother and dont respect eachother :PPPPPPPPPPP
This thread made my day... in form of irony and pure laugh!
WAR complaining about WoW taking some ideas from it.... it's like a thief complaining about getting his stolen goods, stolen by the one he stole from. I mean what a cracked up hilarious arguement that would be.
"why did you steal the stuff i stole from you?"
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Bottom line is if developers did not take other ideas and evolve them we would all be playing pacman and space invaders.
Take WoW's seige warfare.. its leaps and bounds ahead of what WAR and AOC has given us, in fact I dont know of an MMO or even a single player game where the seige warfare is as developed as WoW's.
And I have read over some of these posts that talk about blizzard being sued and having to pay games workshop money and that WC and even SC was ment to be Warhammer/40k... thats not true, atleast no one can produce eveidence of this.
i totally agree with you .
Based on your Blizzard sig, Id imagine even if someone did produce evidence, youd still refute it. Its obvious where your loyalties lie, and Im betting OJs friends said "We know you didnt do it"
I'm still waiting for someone to give me a single unique feature WoW has that wasn't done better in another MMO.
The only unique thing WoW did was make a casual MMO for the kids that haven't figured out basic math yet, because thats about as complicated as WoW gets. It is EverQuest watered down, plain and simple, every single mechanic.
Darkfall Travelogues!
WoW's siege warfare? Don't even try, don't even try. WoW does not have "siege warfare". Dark Age of Camelot has siege warfare. It has boiling oil, trebuchets, catapults, siege towers, balistas, rams of all shapes and sizes. Dark Age of Camelot did siege right, WoW made a cheap knock off. Story of its life.
There is no game around that can touch DAoC RvR, the only one that comes close is Warhammer.
Darkfall Travelogues!
Wow is hardly the problem . Name some games coming out at the same time as Wow that were'nt level based and didnt lead you from zone to zone .... there arent many , and If you can name them , more than likely they werent worth playing.
The problem lies with the companies making trash games and releasing too early. You could do that back in the day ...today If you do it , it kills your game. I loved UO , never got to play EQ2 and SWG was great even with the bugs. But alot of free range given to players just isnt going to happen anymore. You can thank exploiters and griefers for that.
I do agree about the obnoxious amount of people it has brought into gaming ...highly unfortunate. In some older mmorpgs , reputation mattered and you would get blacklisted. Either that or hang otut with the other few degenerates there were floating in the game. Today in games such as WOW or EQ2 ...rep doesnt matter in the overall scheme of things. There are just so many people playing not to mention the amount of alts most play on. You hardly ever see a person not able to get a group even if hes a jerk, ninja looter etc etc
Thats not true, WOW has stolen many ideas from other mmo's. Prime example WAR had the achievement system and the titles 1st, and in WOW's latest patch its in there, but the patch has jacked up their servers alot. A few friends of mine have said since the patch they can't logon because of the authentication servers are screwed up and others who have gotten in just for a short time have said its laggy and they usually get booted to the desktop....This is your example of WOW fanbois claiming that WOW takes ideas and perfects them...lol perfects them into lagged servers and authentication issues...The road is set and WOW is going down the wrong way.....its a matter of time...and WOTLK will be the last straw for many...guarentee it
Well if Warhammer had 10 million subscribers they would probably also have server and authentication issues. It's not that they are that bad in WoW for that matter... I experienced some lagged servers in WAR at the launch as well.
There is a big problem with threads like this, namely that while the fanbois of WoW say that Blizzard takes what already exists and polish it, making it better, the fanbois of other games (in this case WAR) say that they have invented everything. These views do not really match well for argumentation.
I seldom read any threads by WoW players that say that the new features are original but obviously you (author of quoted post, and others as well) wrongly do say that Warhammer is the source of originality, in this case the achievment system.
Maybe you should play some other games to broaden your point of view. LOTRO for example?
Why even bother what other does? Just play what is fun and be happy with that... let companies copy as much as they want, in the end that is good for us players.
The only really original part in Warhammer as I see it are the public quests... something which is quite fun, but also something that Mythic obviously liked so much so they threw in three additional PQ's per chapter that noone plays.
There will probaly never come another mmorpg that is truly original in the future (at least that will succeed well). Who wins is the one that take what is and makes it better. That is what Blizzard does, and that is what Mythic tries to do.
The only unique thing that email did was make a casual mode of communication for the kids that haven't figured out basic horseback riding yet, because thats about as complicated as email gets. It is pony express watered down, plain and simple, every single mechanic.
No, what I want is reward that is worth the work. I appreciate that for you the pride of character, raid achievements and whatever else is worth it. For most of us it is not. It's repetitive and boring.
I've spent over 20 years practicing and getting better at playing drums. I would not spend that time on Guitar Hero, as you say. To me, dikuMUD, UO, EQ, WoW and all the other clones are *all* Guitar Hero.
So what you are saying is that you wouldnt be offended by someone who picked up a copy of Rock Band, and theyre saying "This is great, I dont know why people waste 20 years playing real drums"
Offended? Of course not. They can play what they want, it doesn't take anything away from my enjoyment of jamming. A little sad perhaps, which is natural anytime things move on. For most people the next MMO will never be as good as that original experience, regardless of the game.
The only unique thing that email did was make a casual mode of communication for the kids that haven't figured out basic horseback riding yet, because thats about as complicated as email gets. It is pony express watered down, plain and simple, every single mechanic.
Damn Signus, you got served!!
The only unique thing that email did was make a casual mode of communication for the kids that haven't figured out basic horseback riding yet, because thats about as complicated as email gets. It is pony express watered down, plain and simple, every single mechanic.
Damn Signus, you got served!!
That analogy made absolutely no sense at all. You cannot compare the passing of information getting faster, to a company that has never had a single idea in its entire conception. I mean, cool analogy, but it doesn't old any weight.
Darkfall Travelogues!
The only unique thing that email did was make a casual mode of communication for the kids that haven't figured out basic horseback riding yet, because thats about as complicated as email gets. It is pony express watered down, plain and simple, every single mechanic.
Damn Signus, you got served!!
That analogy made absolutely no sense at all. You cannot compare the passing of information getting faster, to a company that has never had a single idea in its entire conception. I mean, cool analogy, but it doesn't old any weight.
Ah, the trick is: neither does yours.
"The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." - Albert Einstein
The only unique thing that email did was make a casual mode of communication for the kids that haven't figured out basic horseback riding yet, because thats about as complicated as email gets. It is pony express watered down, plain and simple, every single mechanic.
Damn Signus, you got served!!
That analogy made absolutely no sense at all. You cannot compare the passing of information getting faster, to a company that has never had a single idea in its entire conception. I mean, cool analogy, but it doesn't old any weight.
Ah, the trick is: neither does yours.
I didn't make an analogy. Go back to grade school kid.
Like I've said before, theres a difference between building on what came before, and stealing every single piece of it and adding nothing new.
DAoC added RvR to the EverQuest formula. WoW...just has the EverQuest formula with sprinklings from other games. Nothing really new.
Darkfall Travelogues!
In the game industry, theres nothing wrong with taking a good idea and bringing it to your game. Of course directly copying it is wrong but if they can integrate it well, then all is good. I mean hey, its not as if WAR won't borrow ideas from other MMO's on the market, in fact they'd be foolish not to.
Achievements are not something made originally by WAR anyway. Xbox Live was the first to have achievements and more or loss a lot of games are trying to copy that success with various degrees of success
Well if your serious Warhammer could be concidered a bigger theif when it comes to unoriginality when it comes down to it because their crimes go back to the days of P&P and miniture gameing. Games workshop created it to try to leech off of Dungeons & Dragons. Unless your playing D&D you have no right to question any originality in this genre of game.
The only unique thing that email did was make a casual mode of communication for the kids that haven't figured out basic horseback riding yet, because thats about as complicated as email gets. It is pony express watered down, plain and simple, every single mechanic.
Damn Signus, you got served!!
That analogy made absolutely no sense at all. You cannot compare the passing of information getting faster, to a company that has never had a single idea in its entire conception. I mean, cool analogy, but it doesn't old any weight.
Ah, the trick is: neither does yours.
I didn't make an analogy. Go back to grade school kid.
Like I've said before, theres a difference between building on what came before, and stealing every single piece of it and adding nothing new.
DAoC added RvR to the EverQuest formula. WoW...just has the EverQuest formula with sprinklings from other games. Nothing really new.
No, you didn't make an analogy. You made a broadly ridiculous argument that feature lists define quality and that something simpler must be worse. I replied with an equally absurd argument based on that assumption. It's a rhetorical device called reducto ad absurdum. Can we move away from the pissing contest now? Calling people "kid" on the internet just makes you look bad. If you want to talk details rather than sound bites, it takes a lot longer and isn't nearly as entertaining.
I'll toss this one out. WoW made a simpler leveling experience, the combination of many features and design decisions, that vastly more people found more entertaining than the system in EQ, DAoC, EQ2, etc... Is that a novel feature? Who cares. Entertaining to lots of people is about as good a metric as you'll get for the quality of a game.