I loved TIer 1 and 2 PvE. I love to solo/grind PvE. I still like War, but since Tier 3 I can't motivate myself to play. There i no carrot getting me back into the game. PQ items are nice, but I don't care that much about them. Leveling hasnt given me anything big for quite some levels, and now I don't care that much about levelling. I will play some more, but will check out WotLK for sure. Mythic should improve Tier 3.
The idea that you can play WAR 6 times is stupid clueless fanboism. If you play WAR PvE you move to each zone or you wont get enough XP. So when it comes to quests you can play WAR twice.
I understand why people want to hype their game because they fear that it will die otherwise, but it really doesn't help luring people with wrong expectations
I tried a lot of PVE in Warhammer. And, it is slow and can be tedius. I tried to PQ - except in the very beginning and perhaps for a random later PQ near a road (MIrelin in Elf T2 for example) you will almost NEVER get someone to run by and jon you. If you do PQs, you are most-likely going to solo the first step by killing 100 or 150 mobs (or killing mobs and picking up things), and then you will wait 5 to 8 minutes to let it reset back to step 1. You will then repeat this until you have the max influence for that Chapter. Then after you go get your influence reward from the Rally Master, you move onto the next PQ chapter. All the PVE I did (quests + PQs) - I was never in danger of getting killed, it was easy to solo pull mobs no matter how many were standing around, and even if I was getting beat on by two champion mobs, it was simple to turn and flee. I did that "Plant the Staff" quest that the OP talked about. It was no big deal. Beat your way in, plant the staff, stand next to the staff where none of the PQ mobs roamed and let the three quest mobs come at you, one after the other with plenty of time after you killed one mob to heal up before the next, and then beat your way out. Was that great or what? Not going to say WAR PVE was incredibly bad or lame - some of it was entertaining, but to me it was like most PVE - kinda boring.
Just to pip in here.. not going to criticize or fight or anything since PvE is obviously not your game and yes I do find it quite a bit more "mellow" than RvR (as it should be imo).
However I find the part where you can't find people to PQ with really intriguing.. I play on a low pop server that gets its renown and xp "dole" and I almost never seem to have any problems with getting a PQ group... that ends up doing scenarios as a premade and guild invites and /friends start to flow. I see many people complaining about it though so I suppose it must be a real problem for some folks...
Hmm, I'll analyze my playstyle and maybe post a separate thread later on.. something like "How to group in WAR" or something. Maybe there is something fundamentally wrong in the way you approach grouping in the game? Not in wrong as in "wrong", but simply not really compatible with the game's natural flow. Hmmm...
I think overly simplified was a poor choice of words on my part, my appologies. Yes you do have some nice examples to back up your views, but they are not really representative of what the majority of the games PvE offers. Sure there are some nuggets of good, but the majority of the quests revolve around kill X, tank/spank and work very hard to remove the need to communicate tactics, read or even interact with other players.
I don't think the PvE is as great as you are trying to make it seem which is why many people feel it is lacking and echo as much. Like yourself, I also find it a nice diversion to mix in between all the game has to offer [population issues aside], but I really disagree when you keep hinting that the blame is on the players for not seeking out the grand PvE experience. The problem isn't that people (including me) aren't getting off the beaten path to find whatever it is. The game mechanics almost work against that sort of thing to be honest and I'm just not convinced much changes when you do overcome the games obsticles and do venture out. Pretty much the same old same old.
The real strength of the game is the PvP. Ask yourself the honest question: if you remove the PvP aspects of the game would you pay a subscription for what the game offers in PvE or would you just go play another game [assuming you are not burned out of every other game]
I'm not saying it is a total disater, but it sure does need work in most areas.
Hmm, would I play it without PvP? Oh yes I would, but I wouldn't pay subscription for it.
PQ system as such, combined with all the rest of the PvE content would definitely be worth my time and the price on the box. However I can't say it would be sufficient to make WAR my only game, the one worth subscribing to.
On the other hand, what are the alternatives? I am a working, professional man with a family. I really don't have the time to regularly raid things or "work" in the game for my entertainment. I've got my weekends and days off when I like to go hardcore and I really appreciate the fact that WAR allows me to do so within the same framework that gives me my 15 minute scenario adrenaline shots before I go to my afternoon shift. In fact I'd pay double or triple the subscription price for this amount of flexibility with the way I want to play at any given moment.
The game needs work, tbh, and in some of the WAR-specific forums out there you'll probably recognize me as the guy who is the most annoyingly vocal critic of certain game features. (I'm the troll yelling "I told you so a year ago!" regarding the scenarios sucking away players from world RvR). However at this time I find it the best value for my money, even regarding PvE. Sorry but WoW PvE, at least for me, can't even begin to compare - taking into account my personal RL responsibilities and gaming needs.
I tried a lot of PVE in Warhammer. And, it is slow and can be tedius. I tried to PQ - except in the very beginning and perhaps for a random later PQ near a road (MIrelin in Elf T2 for example) you will almost NEVER get someone to run by and jon you. If you do PQs, you are most-likely going to solo the first step by killing 100 or 150 mobs (or killing mobs and picking up things), and then you will wait 5 to 8 minutes to let it reset back to step 1. You will then repeat this until you have the max influence for that Chapter. Then after you go get your influence reward from the Rally Master, you move onto the next PQ chapter. All the PVE I did (quests + PQs) - I was never in danger of getting killed, it was easy to solo pull mobs no matter how many were standing around, and even if I was getting beat on by two champion mobs, it was simple to turn and flee. I did that "Plant the Staff" quest that the OP talked about. It was no big deal. Beat your way in, plant the staff, stand next to the staff where none of the PQ mobs roamed and let the three quest mobs come at you, one after the other with plenty of time after you killed one mob to heal up before the next, and then beat your way out. Was that great or what? Not going to say WAR PVE was incredibly bad or lame - some of it was entertaining, but to me it was like most PVE - kinda boring.
I pretty much agree with this. The PvE in WAR is very tedius and dull. When I first started playing WAR I found the game to be quite good fun. The PQ's were a nice new addition and are perhaps the only really new thing that WAR has brought to the PvE experience. The novelty just wore off after the first week though......pretty much like it does in any mmo I guess.
There is just something extremely generic about the whole thing. It doesnt seem to matter what quest I am doing, I always feel like I am repeating the same stuff over and over again.....but thats probably because I AM repeating the same stuff. I have actually switched off now to reading any of the quest text because its all just bullshit. I just click the accept button, look on the map and head to the red area and click on whatever object I have to click or kill the required "moving object" that needs to be killed. It doesnt even matter if my target is with a group of other mobs because you can just pull it towards you without the other npcs lifting a finger to intervene. In fact I'm actually getting really bored of being able to just wander in and out of enemy npc camps without them even paying any attention to me. Its like all of them can only see you if you walk within a few metres of them which is just shit. At least a small amount of AI would be nice.....but then I suppose PvE in all mmos has always been very basic and crap.
Also every mob just seems the same to me. It doesnt matter what npc I have to kill, I just repeat exactly the same button clicks to kill them and then I move onto the next one. Same same same same same.
There must be a "Make your own mmo" manual out by now because all the games companies seem to be using it as all of these mmos are almost identical.
Also because dieing is completely irrelevant in this game, I just dont care about anything.......not that I am ever really in any danger of being killed anyway as everything is all just so easy. Half the time I cant even be bothered to use all of my abilities. Basicly you can pay a bit of attention to what your doing and kill something in 5 seconds or just sit back and daydream while drinking a cup of tea and kill something in 8 seconds. Exciting stuff.
The fact that I encountered a 7 year old kid playing this game as well as anyone else pretty much says it all really.
To say the PvE in WAR is awesome is just stupid.....unless you're incredibly easy to please. Its pure 100% grind and doesnt do anything that hasnt already been done before......apart from PQ's but then thats still more grinding, especially if there is no-one around to join you in which case grinding out those Influence points is insanely boring beyond belief.
Sorry but I dont give a shit about Tome unlocks either. OK so you can win the thrilling privelige of having a title appear under your name. Who f**king cares?.....or a bit of text appears in the ToK. So what? Its all just boring fluff that Mythic have put into their game to make it seem like it has loads of "stuff". So they got a few guys to sit down and type out a load of text files. Big deal! What about making the game itself interesting? Oh no cant do that because that would mean deviating from the "Make your own mmo" manual which every games company MUST adhere to. A real book is far more interesting than any of the boring shit that pops up in the ToK.
Also the items that drop are so dull and generic. I never come across anything that looks unique or interesting. Everything just looks the same and as a result I look the same as everyone else of the same level as me. One of the appeals of grinding through boring PvE quests is that you get rewarded with the occasional item that looks nifty. That doesnt seem to happen in WAR. You just follow the yellow brick road that everyone else follows and upgrade your stuff at each check point.
The stupid thing is that WAR should have been a great RvR game and yet Mythic seems to have focused a lot of their attention on generating large amounts of PvE content which is essentially all the bloody same anyway. As a result I find myself just churning my way through the PvE quests while I wait to hop into a scenario to alleviate the boredom. I cant just get involved straight away with the open RvR part of the game because firstly there is a load of PvE shit between it and me and also whenever I get there it is empty most of the time because everyone else is doing the PvE (main content of the game) and scenarios.
So compared to any other mmo the PvE in WAR is just.....well.....the same as it has always been really except that it feels more restrictive as you just follow the road in the direction of the next tier. Its boring and yet kind of addictive......it has a few extra features added on but it really isnt worth paying a monthly fee for. Fortunately there is the PvP aspect to alleviate the repitition a bit but its just there as a bit of extra amusement as the RvR is pretty meaningless. In Warhammer Online the WAR just doesnt matter. You can ignore it all if you want and thats just daft.
WAR should have been a pure RvR game with NO PvE bullshit and NO scenarios. It also should never have been modelled on WoW. Mythic should have taken a more original approach and done something unique. Instead they took the easy road.
I prefer RvR as well and I bought the game because of it. However I really got pleasantly surprised to find that PvE can more than hold its own...
All of your complaints can apply to any and all PvE in any MMO out there. What I am saying is that relatively WAR PvE is awesome... for PvE.
If you prefer PvP only then go for it - you can play the game from start to "finish" without ever doing a PvE quest or a PQ. You might level a bit slower and not get all the absolutely best gear in the game until you reach T4 but WAR is not the game for that kind of thinking anyway. I'd never trade not one of my RvR buddies that I've grown to know and synch together for all the PvE purplaz - teamwork, skill and experience >>> gear and levels in this game.
1) Plant the Staff, in Avelorn: I plant the staff and the first of the three mobs runs towards me from the center of the lake. I kill him, and expect 2 more to follow (cause the stupid quest list on the side of the screen is telling me exactly what should happen). Strangely, nothing else does happen - but I see the timer in the quest list and in the upper right corner. I wait for a few minutes then decide I better figure out what is going on before the timer runs out. I have to circle clear around the other side of the lake to find the others I have to kill. Apparently, they just wanted to chill for a while.
2) "Control" quest, in Avelorn: I go and get the Tear of Isha in the troll cave, and the quest informs me that I have to kill a sorceress before I escape the cave. I look around for about 30 seconds, and then finally the NPC appears near the exit of the room. I open up with ranged attack and get multiple reports of "Target is Not Attackable." I decide to move into melee in hopes that this is just a ranged bug. Nope. "Target is Not Attackable." Over and over. Meanwhile, the sorceress is frying me just fine. One of her guards shows up and I kill him, because he is attackable, but then another one shows up and I'm down to nothing for health, so I attempt to flee through the cave tunnels that have now been completely repopulated with Trolls. I die, of course. I go back later to see if the sorceress is still there and has become attackable - nope, they go away after a while. Lovely. (Oh, and nevermind the fact I have the Tear of Isha already in my inventory, there doesn't seem to be any way to return it to the proper individual because the sorceress objective wasn't completed.)
3) Another quest in Avelorn: This was a quest that involves going to the public quest with the stones and demon vines. The objective I remember was to kill a cultist within the ruins and take something the cultist had. I did so, then went back to camp before right-clicking on the item. The quest then tells me that I'm supposed to kill a demon before going back to camp. Since I didn't do that, I hurry back to the public quest and get there just in time to see the demon disappear. No quest completion for me.
These are just the examples that immediately popped into my head when I started reading the OP's title. There are dozens, if not hundreds more, that were just like them. It's not that I get frustrated when I encounter bugs and poor design playing a game that I like. It's when those things happen to me while doing ridiculously lame activities that I don't enjoy in the slightest that my nerves start getting pinched. The activities themselves aren't fun, I don't see how anyone can think they are - they are merely battles at guessing what lame conditions have been thrust upon you by a developer experiencing a time crunch. Adding unimmersive computerized inconsistency on top of them doesn't improve the appeal.
In my opinion, Warhammer has captured the essences of everything that is entirely disfunctional about PvE play in MMOs, and then they decided to use those essences as the building blocks of their world.
Could be I'm just lucky or I simply failed to notice the bugs / design flaws that you mention. For example take the "plant the staff" quest. I suppose I was on the right side of the lake so the mobs all spawned a couple dozen feet from me.
Actually fast respawning is something I do enjoy in the game - it makes you think fast on your feet, I wouldn't have it any other way. In mt Gunbad for example - if you wipe, you have to do it again, from the beginning, due to respawns. Now that's pretty challenging to me: no free wipes guys. Do it again and do it right.
Anywayz, do make an effort to post feedback / bug reports if you find them. I'm not saying there are no bugs or badly balanced and not really well tested quests.. However though I hate making comparisons of that kind I have yet to see a WoW PvE quest that would give me so much entertainment as those two in that plague village... It is really hard to put my finger down on what it is that makes PvE really different in "feel" of things - it may be those fast respawns that make you move much faster.. or the very "unbalanced" feeling that you sometimes get. "Crap, the target mob spawned too far from me - there are 3-4 respawns that I have to go through to get him - what now? Wait for reset so I can get a better position or just go for it?"
What I am really waiting for is the true merger of PvP and PvE like what we got with some dwarf/greenskin PQs.. Just now I went off with my alt to do some influence for dwarf ch 7 in the PQ involving defense of a huge wall (forgot its name). It is a race between destruction and order who is going to kill more enemy mobs in the same area. This was such enormous fun... destros had the lead because there were 3 of them and just a poor harrased IB on our side. I joined him (a WP) and we started annoying them and generally getting into their face. Heck we died a few times but we did manage to stall them just enough for the cavalry - a few guys from our guild - to arrive.. Total mayhem ensued. In the end it was a completely delightful free for all where we raced who is going to kill those mobs the fastest while at the same time trying to lure the opposing side into PvP by unflagging and pretending you've got too far from the core group (with a buddy or two hiding behind the tree lol). Anyways it was a total blast.... especially when stages 2 and 3 arrived. Destros were trying all they could to make us wipe there (out of pure spite and malice ofc )- running into our aoes to unflag and then hit our healers - great, almost like a mini keep siege.
I really hope Mythic will eventually get to introducing PQs such as these into their RvR lakes, as they implied in the last MBJ state of the game. Personally this would be the best way to do PvE that I can imagine.
/ps
Sorry for my failing english.. I'm well past my bed time and english is not my native language.
Some Warhammer PvE experiences: 1) Plant the Staff, in Avelorn: I plant the staff and the first of the three mobs runs towards me from the center of the lake. I kill him, and expect 2 more to follow (cause the stupid quest list on the side of the screen is telling me exactly what should happen). Strangely, nothing else does happen - but I see the timer in the quest list and in the upper left corner. I wait for a few minutes then decide I better figure out what is going on before the timer runs out. I have to circle clear around the other side of the lake to find the others I have to kill. Apparently, they just wanted to chill for a while. 2) "Control" quest, in Avelorn: I go and get the Tear of Isha in the troll cave, and the quest informs me that I have to kill a sorceress before I escape the cave. I look around for about 30 seconds, and then finally the NPC appears near the exit of the room. I open up with ranged attack and get multiple reports of "Target is Not Attackable." I decide to move into melee in hopes that this is just a ranged bug. Nope. "Target is Not Attackable." Over and over. Meanwhile, the sorceress is frying me just fine. One of her guards shows up and I kill him, because he is attackable, but then another one shows up and I'm down to nothing for health, so I attempt to flee through the cave tunnels that have now been completely repopulated with Trolls. I die, of course. I go back later to see if the sorceress is still there and has become attackable - nope, they go away after a while. Lovely. (Oh, and nevermind the fact I have the Tear of Isha already in my inventory, there doesn't seem to be any way to return it to the proper individual because the sorceress objective wasn't completed.) 3) Another quest in Avelorn: This was a quest that involves going to the public quest with the stones and demon vines. The objective I remember was to kill a cultist within the ruins and take something the cultist had. I did so, then went back to camp before right-clicking on the item. The quest then tells me that I'm supposed to kill a demon before going back to camp. Since I didn't do that, I hurry back to the public quest and get there just in time to see the demon disappear. No quest completion for me. These are just the examples that immediately popped into my head when I started reading the OP's title. There are dozens, if not hundreds more, that were just like them. It's not that I get frustrated when I encounter bugs and poor design playing a game that I like. It's when those things happen to me while doing ridiculously lame activities that I don't enjoy in the slightest that my nerves start getting pinched. The activities themselves aren't fun, I don't see how anyone can think they are - they are merely battles at guessing what lame conditions have been thrust upon you by a developer experiencing a time crunch. Adding unimmersive computerized inconsistency on top of them doesn't improve the appeal. In my opinion, Warhammer has captured the essences of everything that is entirely disfunctional about PvE play in MMOs, and then they decided to use those essences as the building blocks of their world.
It sounds like the bad PVE content of DAoC and its later added dungeons all over again.
Could be I'm just lucky or I simply failed to notice the bugs / design flaws that you mention. For example take the "plant the staff" quest. I suppose I was on the right side of the lake so the mobs all spawned a couple dozen feet from me. Actually fast respawning is something I do enjoy in the game - it makes you think fast on your feet, I wouldn't have it any other way. In mt Gunbad for example - if you wipe, you have to do it again, from the beginning, due to respawns. Now that's pretty challenging to me: no free wipes guys. Do it again and do it right. Anywayz, do make an effort to post feedback / bug reports if you find them. I'm not saying there are no bugs or badly balanced and not really well tested quests.. However though I hate making comparisons of that kind I have yet to see a WoW PvE quest that would give me so much entertainment as those two in that plague village... It is really hard to put my finger down on what it is that makes PvE really different in "feel" of things - it may be those fast respawns that make you move much faster.. or the very "unbalanced" feeling that you sometimes get. "Crap, the target mob spawned too far from me - there are 3-4 respawns that I have to go through to get him - what now? Wait for reset so I can get a better position or just go for it?" What I am really waiting for is the true merger of PvP and PvE like what we got with some dwarf/greenskin PQs.. Just now I went off with my alt to do some influence for dwarf ch 7 in the PQ involving defense of a huge wall (forgot its name). It is a race between destruction and order who is going to kill more enemy mobs in the same area. This was such enormous fun... destros had the lead because there were 3 of them and just a poor harrased IB on our side. I joined him (a WP) and we started annoying them and generally getting into their face. Heck we died a few times but we did manage to stall them just enough for the cavalry - a few guys from our guild - to arrive.. Total mayhem ensued. In the end it was a completely delightful free for all where we raced who is going to kill those mobs the fastest while at the same time trying to lure the opposing side into PvP by unflagging and pretending you've got too far from the core group (with a buddy or two hiding behind the tree lol). Anyways it was a total blast.... especially when stages 2 and 3 arrived. Destros were trying all they could to make us wipe there (out of pure spite and malice ofc )- running into our aoes to unflag and then hit our healers - great, almost like a mini keep siege. I really hope Mythic will eventually get to introducing PQs such as these into their RvR lakes, as they implied in the last MBJ state of the game. Personally this would be the best way to do PvE that I can imagine. /ps Sorry for my failing english.. I'm well past my bed time and english is not my native language.
To be honest I dont really have a huge problem with bugs and glitches in WAR. It all actually runs very smoothly for me.......as regular as clock-work in fact which isnt really surprising considering the extremely simplistic design of the game. It would be very hard to totally mess it up. But yes Mythic have made a very smooth PvE focused game......but then how would it be anything but smooth? How hard can it be for a large and talented games company to make something that has already been made several times by other companies? All the basic game mechanics already exist.....the only thing they had to do was change the way it looks.
The strange thing is that the AI of the mobs in WAR is actually less sophisticated than it is in WoW and thats really not a good thing. At least in WoW the mobs alert nearby buddies to come and help them. In WAR they dont register each other at all. I never found the PvE exciting in WoW and yet Mythic have actually managed to make it even more easy and predictable. Thats quite a shocking achievement. Arent games supposed to evolve?
I remember that PQ you referred to in the greenskins area where you have to fight over a wall. It was a small breath of fresh air actually and its a shame the ENTIRE game is not like that. Unfortunately though it just isnt. The only reason that PQ was interesting was because other players could be opponents. Its a classic case of players making their own fun because the game itself just isnt capable of providing it.
Saying that having fast respawns makes the game more challenging and therefore more fun is just insane. Mythic love players like you. Fighting a computer controlled mob with nearly zero AI in WAR is not challenging or interesting in any way. Like I said before I can do it with a cup of tea in one hand while watching TV at the same time. You think doing LOTS of increaes the challenge and fun factor?!
"Ok here is a monster. To kill it you have to press buttons 2, 3 and 4. You liked that? Oh ok then.....here are 10 more monsters. They look a bit different but you still fight them the same way with buttons 2, 3 and 4 because they do the same things as all the other monsters. Ok so you found that exciting? Well hell here are 50 of them all lined up waiting to be chopped down by buttons 2, 3 and 4. Oh look you chose to stand still in a place where you know that the monster you killed a minute ago is going to reappear. I bet you werent expecting that eh? Ya see we at Mythic like to throw surprises at you to keep you on your toes and make the game exciting. Oh yes we love the fact that you are paying us money each month to knock down our regenerating target dummies. We have covered our "world" with loads of these target dummies but dont worry they will always be there waiting to be knocked down by buttons 2, 3 and 4. Later on you get to press other buttons to knock them down with. Oh the excitement never ends."
Like I said before I met a 7 year old kid playing this game. He was ploughing his way through it all with total ease. It turned out that he had two level 70 WoW characters as well. Its intersting that what the 7 year old kid found easy is actually seen as an exciting challenge to you. I guess you are very easily pleased. Sorry but I'm an adult and I require something a lot more stimulating than this.
Hmm.. I agree that mob AI could have been better. But it is not a really big deal for me. In fact I don't find it any better or worse than what is the norm - it is WoW AI which is somewhat improved with some positional abilities such as knockbacks, knockdowns etc... an ogre can kick you off a cliff if you don't watch where you're standing for example.
"Its a classic case of players making their own fun because the game itself just isnt capable of providing it."
This is just so wrong on so many levels that I don't really know how to begin tackling it.
Every multiplayer game, from board games onwards, is all about providing a quality context which is conductive to players providing content to each other. A game that is pushing content into players faces instead of actually giving them the opportunity to do it themselves is moving away from multiplayer into singleplayer.
This is like saying Chess, Monopoly, COD4 and Counterstrike are crap games because they rely on players providing content to each other. In that sense every confrontational multiplayer is a bad game.. and besides that PQ was designed to push players against each other - as such it functions almost as a mini open-world scenario. I find it absolutely great fun and very well designed.
As for the 2-3-4 button thing.. please tell me one other MMO where it is not 2-3-4 button mashing against trash mobs? Ok, maybe D&D online which has really great mob AI and combat system but this comes at a very heavy price of instancing. I'd rather have an open world with 2-3-4 button mashing and basic AI where fast respawns provide the only challenge (which actually isn't the norm in WAR but for the sake of argument lets say it is) than a fantastically intricate basic PvE in a series of small instanced chambers. But that's just me though.
Originally posted by markoraos Hmm.. I agree that mob AI could have been better. But it is not a really big deal for me. In fact I don't find it any better or worse than what is the norm - it is WoW AI which is somewhat improved with some positional abilities such as knockbacks, knockdowns etc... an ogre can kick you off a cliff if you don't watch where you're standing for example.
Um, this can perfectly happen in WOW already? I got knocked out of a tower by a moth just a few days ago, that's TBC content, not sure about old world.
Maybe it's the lack of knowledge of other PvE content that's making you assume WAR's is so much better? (you need to know both sides after all if you want to make a comparison that has any value)
Maybe its you pheace not realizing this is COMMON in war and uncommon in wow. Just maybe.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Originally posted by markoraos Hmm.. I agree that mob AI could have been better. But it is not a really big deal for me. In fact I don't find it any better or worse than what is the norm - it is WoW AI which is somewhat improved with some positional abilities such as knockbacks, knockdowns etc... an ogre can kick you off a cliff if you don't watch where you're standing for example.
Um, this can perfectly happen in WOW already? I got knocked out of a tower by a moth just a few days ago, that's TBC content, not sure about old world.
Yeah, thats basically WoW-style mob AI. However I find that there is sligthly a bit more of those situations and they happen from level 1... In addition there are some slight variations in mob behaviors but nothing to write home about - like certain trolls who drop aggro when they knock you down and go for the next team member (if any), healer mobs who actually heal others (mt Gunbad ftw!) and that kind of thing.
I find the solo questing PvE part of WAR challenging only when it is in a multi-mob context. If you are looking for challenge when fighting a single mob you won't find it. The challenge comes from mob positioning, their patrol paths and fast respawns. Ofc a disclaimer is that not all PvE quests do it well but those that do are really satisfying. I hope Mythic will continue working on improving those "orphan" quests and give them this quality which I know they're capable of.
Maybe its you pheace not realizing this is COMMON in war and uncommon in wow. Just maybe.
By that sense it is COMMON-ly argumented that the PvE in WAR is felt as lacking compared to it's contemporaries and uncommon-ly people like you(assuming here) and Markoroas who seem to feel it's quite a step above (complete opposite thus).
For me it's just hard to imagine when I hear complaints about mobs that run in all different directions, bugging out and resetting, mobs that can all be pulled single file instead of grouping, whole camps where you can run around without hardly agroing anything, dungeons that lack any meaningful itemization etc etc.
Those arguments to me just seem to add more to that COMMON argument than I see here supporting the opposite.
I find the PQ's a relief in the MMO-world, no more endless dungeons where you know beforehand that you'll have to stay at least 2 hours, maybe 4 or 6 hours online and playing. You walk in and out a PQ without any consequences. I did PQ's alone, grouped with one friend, in a pug, in a guild run. At any level the PQ is different, but it works fine and indeed the rewards for finishing the last stage and the rewards for finishing a chapter are very nice.
I wished that they had invented this kind of replacement for dungeons years ago. It's easy accesible and offer entertainment for any playstyle. You can grind them or just explore them once (there are plenty), you can go for the big fat loot or just play them ten minutes to waste some time. With our guild we are usually able to finish a public quest within 30 minutes, lovely
Originally posted by markoraos Hmm.. I agree that mob AI could have been better. But it is not a really big deal for me. In fact I don't find it any better or worse than what is the norm - it is WoW AI which is somewhat improved with some positional abilities such as knockbacks, knockdowns etc... an ogre can kick you off a cliff if you don't watch where you're standing for example.
Um, this can perfectly happen in WOW already? I got knocked out of a tower by a moth just a few days ago, that's TBC content, not sure about old world.
Maybe it's the lack of knowledge of other PvE content that's making you assume WAR's is so much better? (you need to know both sides after all if you want to make a comparison that has any value)
Again : read the red : everyone who played War and Wow can really only laugh about such remarks.
I said it a month ago this kind of hyped fan talk will be a HUGE blow to War in the end. It's like saying the Trabant former East German communist car is better than a James Bond sports car.
Until people drive the thing and see and feel the difference. The difference in PVE - compared to about all other MMORPG's - is indeed THAT big.
"I took a flight path in WAR and helped my friend doing a public quest". Yeah right.
OP : or you are ready for the X house or a rather good paid person to promote poorly things which aren't there.
And seeing the "Disney" kind of Avatar and always "positively" promoting stuff which simply is not even in the game, I think it's actually a well paid viral pushing of a MJ employee.
Originally posted by markoraos Hmm.. I agree that mob AI could have been better. But it is not a really big deal for me. In fact I don't find it any better or worse than what is the norm - it is WoW AI which is somewhat improved with some positional abilities such as knockbacks, knockdowns etc... an ogre can kick you off a cliff if you don't watch where you're standing for example.
Um, this can perfectly happen in WOW already? I got knocked out of a tower by a moth just a few days ago, that's TBC content, not sure about old world.
Maybe it's the lack of knowledge of other PvE content that's making you assume WAR's is so much better? (you need to know both sides after all if you want to make a comparison that has any value)
Again : read the red : everyone who played War and Wow can really only laugh about such remarks.
I said it a month ago this kind of hyped fan talk will be a HUGE blow to War in the end. It's like saying the Trabant former East German communist car is better than a James Bond sports car.
Until people drive the thing and see and feel the difference. The difference in PVE - compared to about all other MMORPG's - is indeed THAT big.
"I took a flight path in WAR and helped my friend doing a public quest". Yeah right.
OP : or you are ready for the X house or a rather good paid person to promote poorly things which aren't there.
And seeing the "Disney" kind of Avatar and always "positively" promoting stuff which simply is not even in the game, I think it's actually a well paid viral pushing of a MJ employee.
Don't you ever get tired bodypass?
I played WoW since it came out and for me there is simply no comparison between the two games. I'd rather swallow a live snake than go back to WoW.
Imo a lot of people who are complaining about WAR, and especially its PvE will get a really nasty shock when they return to WoW.. Once you taste collision detection, real group synergies, freedom from time sinks, PQ-running and just the plain waagh of keep sieges on multiple fronts I don't think many will find their wonderful first-love MMO as wonderful as its become in their mind's eye.
I'll concur that LOTRO and even AoC may have better PvE overall (though I really do prefer WAR's style - PQs are the IT for me) however comparing it in unfavorable light to WoW's blandness and frustration is simply ridiculous.
Sorry but when I saw the "new fractions!" blurb in WOTLK ads I thought I'd puke. I really got dizzy for a moment thinking about all those pointless daily rep grind quests.
Have to say I pretty much agree with the OP. I've played just about every MMO out there and the PvE is comparible. (and for the record, 4x70's in WoW, handful of 60+) Groundbreaking - no. But it's solid enough.
If you are bored in PvE, you aren't pulling enough each time. Every game's PvE is boring if you play it safe every pull. Then again, I run with a steady crew and never solo - so it's usually a good 10 mob pull at minimum.
That said though, I wish some of the MMO companies would invest a little more into A.I. routines. I don't mean tired old scripted encounters but random behaviors and tactics. Same with mounts - I would like a mount that seemed like it was actually a living creature, not just a motorcycle with a cardboard dinosaur cover.
I hit 40 with a full quest log and am still being offered even more. While I found my share of bugged quests, I never found anything game breaking which is to be commended this short into it's lifespan. Gunbad and Bastion Stair were fun, hope to see more additions.
As for humor - there's plenty of it around but not all of it is pop trash "Haris Pilton" or "Snakes on a Plane" crap. Satire abounds.
I actually played WAR for 3 weeks. Then, 1 night I was asked by guildies to go back in WoW and tank Kalegos cause there was no 3rd tank. Well.....I was like "WOAAAAAAAAAAH! Has this game always been THAT good?"
Should I say I never went back to WAR in the last week of my sub?
I should thank Mythic for showing me why I still play WoW. Was getting quite boring lately.
Originally posted by markoraos Hmm.. I agree that mob AI could have been better. But it is not a really big deal for me. In fact I don't find it any better or worse than what is the norm - it is WoW AI which is somewhat improved with some positional abilities such as knockbacks, knockdowns etc... an ogre can kick you off a cliff if you don't watch where you're standing for example.
Um, this can perfectly happen in WOW already? I got knocked out of a tower by a moth just a few days ago, that's TBC content, not sure about old world.
Maybe it's the lack of knowledge of other PvE content that's making you assume WAR's is so much better? (you need to know both sides after all if you want to make a comparison that has any value)
Again : read the red : everyone who played War and Wow can really only laugh about such remarks.
I said it a month ago this kind of hyped fan talk will be a HUGE blow to War in the end. It's like saying the Trabant former East German communist car is better than a James Bond sports car.
Until people drive the thing and see and feel the difference. The difference in PVE - compared to about all other MMORPG's - is indeed THAT big.
"I took a flight path in WAR and helped my friend doing a public quest". Yeah right.
OP : or you are ready for the X house or a rather good paid person to promote poorly things which aren't there.
And seeing the "Disney" kind of Avatar and always "positively" promoting stuff which simply is not even in the game, I think it's actually a well paid viral pushing of a MJ employee.
Don't you ever get tired bodypass?
I played WoW since it came out and for me there is simply no comparison between the two games. I'd rather swallow a live snake than go back to WoW.
Imo a lot of people who are complaining about WAR, and especially its PvE will get a really nasty shock when they return to WoW.. Once you taste collision detection, real group synergies, freedom from time sinks, PQ-running and just the plain waagh of keep sieges on multiple fronts I don't think many will find their wonderful first-love MMO as wonderful as its become in their mind's eye.
I'll concur that LOTRO and even AoC may have better PvE overall (though I really do prefer WAR's style - PQs are the IT for me) however comparing it in unfavorable light to WoW's blandness and frustration is simply ridiculous.
Sorry but when I saw the "new fractions!" blurb in WOTLK ads I thought I'd puke. I really got dizzy for a moment thinking about all those pointless daily rep grind quests.
Nice try. But I won't take the bite.
Like I said in another post: stop blowing the pipe. The game is published and everyone can play it.
You are still spreading "the word" for the guys who still haven't played the game.
So this is definitely viral publishing, paid or not. Because everyone who played KNOWS the quality of the product after a certain playing time.
And it doesn't help, because otherwise the game would NOT drop on amazon.com sales, the number of players on Xfire would NOT drop while 250K extra accounts were created in the last 4 weeks.
I just point out little sentences in red and I'll keep doing it, just to assure people where to look at the reality of these viral posts.
The real problem is: War tried and tries (just look at your post) to lure ex Wow players who are fed up with the game after playing it for years into War, but you need to have equal quality.... and there lies the problem for War.
Marc Jacobs thought: let's have all those PvP'er who are waiting before the BG's lure into our game, the original Warhammer.
But it doens't work that way: first you need to have an EXCELLENT game, not a "lure in" game, not a game based on "gaining the bored ones". Because that trick doesn't make good games and certainly wont hold the attention for more than a few weeks, before "again" being bored of the same but with lesser possibilities and lesser development.
Hence you still post the same way as weeks before open beta. Let's have some positive post to lure people in.
The problem is: the bored ones you got (and 50% left War already), the others aren't bored and while they buy they certainly will see the difference, just look at the result of ONE patch 3 days ago and the numbers on Xfire.
That's why I say you are a viral publisher, nothing more nothing less, but hardly a source of information.
Originally posted by markoraos Hmm.. I agree that mob AI could have been better. But it is not a really big deal for me. In fact I don't find it any better or worse than what is the norm - it is WoW AI which is somewhat improved with some positional abilities such as knockbacks, knockdowns etc... an ogre can kick you off a cliff if you don't watch where you're standing for example.
Um, this can perfectly happen in WOW already? I got knocked out of a tower by a moth just a few days ago, that's TBC content, not sure about old world.
Maybe it's the lack of knowledge of other PvE content that's making you assume WAR's is so much better? (you need to know both sides after all if you want to make a comparison that has any value)
Again : read the red : everyone who played War and Wow can really only laugh about such remarks.
I said it a month ago this kind of hyped fan talk will be a HUGE blow to War in the end. It's like saying the Trabant former East German communist car is better than a James Bond sports car.
Until people drive the thing and see and feel the difference. The difference in PVE - compared to about all other MMORPG's - is indeed THAT big.
"I took a flight path in WAR and helped my friend doing a public quest". Yeah right.
OP : or you are ready for the X house or a rather good paid person to promote poorly things which aren't there.
And seeing the "Disney" kind of Avatar and always "positively" promoting stuff which simply is not even in the game, I think it's actually a well paid viral pushing of a MJ employee.
Don't you ever get tired bodypass?
I played WoW since it came out and for me there is simply no comparison between the two games. I'd rather swallow a live snake than go back to WoW.
Imo a lot of people who are complaining about WAR, and especially its PvE will get a really nasty shock when they return to WoW.. Once you taste collision detection, real group synergies, freedom from time sinks, PQ-running and just the plain waagh of keep sieges on multiple fronts I don't think many will find their wonderful first-love MMO as wonderful as its become in their mind's eye.
I'll concur that LOTRO and even AoC may have better PvE overall (though I really do prefer WAR's style - PQs are the IT for me) however comparing it in unfavorable light to WoW's blandness and frustration is simply ridiculous.
Sorry but when I saw the "new fractions!" blurb in WOTLK ads I thought I'd puke. I really got dizzy for a moment thinking about all those pointless daily rep grind quests.
Nice try. But I won't take the bite.
Like I said in another post: stop blowing the pipe. The game is published and everyone can play it.
You are still spreading "the word" for the guys who still haven't played the game.
So this is definitely viral publishing, paid or not. Because everyone who played KNOWS the quality of the product after a certain playing time.
And it doesn't help, because otherwise the game would NOT drop on amazon.com sales, the number of players on Xfire would NOT drop while 250K extra accounts were created in the last 4 weeks.
I just point out little sentences in red and I'll keep doing it, just to assure people where to look at the reality of these viral posts.
The real problem is: War tried and tries (just look at your post) to lure ex Wow players who are fed up with the game after playing it for years into War, but you need to have equal quality.... and there lies the problem for War.
Marc Jacobs thought: let's have all those PvP'er who are waiting before the BG's lure into our game, the original Warhammer.
But it doens't work that way: first you need to have an EXCELLENT game, not a "lure in" game, not a game based on "gaining the bored ones". Because that trick doesn't make good games and certainly wont hold the attention for more than a few weeks, before "again" being bored of the same but with lesser possibilities and lesser development.
Hence you still post the same way as weeks before open beta. Let's have some positive post to lure people in.
The problem is: the bored ones you got (and 50% left War already), the others aren't bored and while they buy they certainly will see the difference, just look at the result of ONE patch 3 days ago and the numbers on Xfire.
That's why I say you are a viral publisher, nothing more nothing less, but hardly a source of information.
Lol bodypass, you are calling me a viral "publisher"? That's too rich...
Oh dear...
I'm wasting my time on this site instead of playing the game exactly because I feel the need to fight people like you. There is nothing wrong with liking or not liking a game but the amount of sheer misinformation you and your ilk spew on this site is really stupendous. I find it revolting that many people will pass the chance to try this great game just because they got lied in their face by rabid haters such as you.
I'm entitled to my opinion like anybody else but I at least try to back it up with arguments rather than plain misinformation and misinterpretation. I will write what I think about the game because that is my prerogative. If somebody doesn't like it then go ahead and say it. Just don't try to back it up with lies because I will savage you (if I find the time that is).
And besides all of this is pointless. I could be a paid marketeer just like you could or anybody else on this site. We'll (probably) never know.
To all the people out on the limb I'll always suggest going to Metacritic site http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/warhammeronline?q=warhammer%20online which is the final authority regarding the reviews, both professional and user. IMO this trumps your xfire numbers or whatever other arbitrary "criterion" you pulled out of your behind as the relevant measure of WAR's quality as a MMO.
Comments
I loved TIer 1 and 2 PvE. I love to solo/grind PvE. I still like War, but since Tier 3 I can't motivate myself to play. There i no carrot getting me back into the game. PQ items are nice, but I don't care that much about them. Leveling hasnt given me anything big for quite some levels, and now I don't care that much about levelling. I will play some more, but will check out WotLK for sure. Mythic should improve Tier 3.
The idea that you can play WAR 6 times is stupid clueless fanboism. If you play WAR PvE you move to each zone or you wont get enough XP. So when it comes to quests you can play WAR twice.
I understand why people want to hype their game because they fear that it will die otherwise, but it really doesn't help luring people with wrong expectations
Just to pip in here.. not going to criticize or fight or anything since PvE is obviously not your game and yes I do find it quite a bit more "mellow" than RvR (as it should be imo).
However I find the part where you can't find people to PQ with really intriguing.. I play on a low pop server that gets its renown and xp "dole" and I almost never seem to have any problems with getting a PQ group... that ends up doing scenarios as a premade and guild invites and /friends start to flow. I see many people complaining about it though so I suppose it must be a real problem for some folks...
Hmm, I'll analyze my playstyle and maybe post a separate thread later on.. something like "How to group in WAR" or something. Maybe there is something fundamentally wrong in the way you approach grouping in the game? Not in wrong as in "wrong", but simply not really compatible with the game's natural flow. Hmmm...
I think overly simplified was a poor choice of words on my part, my appologies. Yes you do have some nice examples to back up your views, but they are not really representative of what the majority of the games PvE offers. Sure there are some nuggets of good, but the majority of the quests revolve around kill X, tank/spank and work very hard to remove the need to communicate tactics, read or even interact with other players.
I don't think the PvE is as great as you are trying to make it seem which is why many people feel it is lacking and echo as much. Like yourself, I also find it a nice diversion to mix in between all the game has to offer [population issues aside], but I really disagree when you keep hinting that the blame is on the players for not seeking out the grand PvE experience. The problem isn't that people (including me) aren't getting off the beaten path to find whatever it is. The game mechanics almost work against that sort of thing to be honest and I'm just not convinced much changes when you do overcome the games obsticles and do venture out. Pretty much the same old same old.
The real strength of the game is the PvP. Ask yourself the honest question: if you remove the PvP aspects of the game would you pay a subscription for what the game offers in PvE or would you just go play another game [assuming you are not burned out of every other game]
I'm not saying it is a total disater, but it sure does need work in most areas.
Hmm, would I play it without PvP? Oh yes I would, but I wouldn't pay subscription for it.
PQ system as such, combined with all the rest of the PvE content would definitely be worth my time and the price on the box. However I can't say it would be sufficient to make WAR my only game, the one worth subscribing to.
On the other hand, what are the alternatives? I am a working, professional man with a family. I really don't have the time to regularly raid things or "work" in the game for my entertainment. I've got my weekends and days off when I like to go hardcore and I really appreciate the fact that WAR allows me to do so within the same framework that gives me my 15 minute scenario adrenaline shots before I go to my afternoon shift. In fact I'd pay double or triple the subscription price for this amount of flexibility with the way I want to play at any given moment.
The game needs work, tbh, and in some of the WAR-specific forums out there you'll probably recognize me as the guy who is the most annoyingly vocal critic of certain game features. (I'm the troll yelling "I told you so a year ago!" regarding the scenarios sucking away players from world RvR). However at this time I find it the best value for my money, even regarding PvE. Sorry but WoW PvE, at least for me, can't even begin to compare - taking into account my personal RL responsibilities and gaming needs.
I pretty much agree with this. The PvE in WAR is very tedius and dull. When I first started playing WAR I found the game to be quite good fun. The PQ's were a nice new addition and are perhaps the only really new thing that WAR has brought to the PvE experience. The novelty just wore off after the first week though......pretty much like it does in any mmo I guess.
There is just something extremely generic about the whole thing. It doesnt seem to matter what quest I am doing, I always feel like I am repeating the same stuff over and over again.....but thats probably because I AM repeating the same stuff. I have actually switched off now to reading any of the quest text because its all just bullshit. I just click the accept button, look on the map and head to the red area and click on whatever object I have to click or kill the required "moving object" that needs to be killed. It doesnt even matter if my target is with a group of other mobs because you can just pull it towards you without the other npcs lifting a finger to intervene. In fact I'm actually getting really bored of being able to just wander in and out of enemy npc camps without them even paying any attention to me. Its like all of them can only see you if you walk within a few metres of them which is just shit. At least a small amount of AI would be nice.....but then I suppose PvE in all mmos has always been very basic and crap.
Also every mob just seems the same to me. It doesnt matter what npc I have to kill, I just repeat exactly the same button clicks to kill them and then I move onto the next one. Same same same same same.
There must be a "Make your own mmo" manual out by now because all the games companies seem to be using it as all of these mmos are almost identical.
Also because dieing is completely irrelevant in this game, I just dont care about anything.......not that I am ever really in any danger of being killed anyway as everything is all just so easy. Half the time I cant even be bothered to use all of my abilities. Basicly you can pay a bit of attention to what your doing and kill something in 5 seconds or just sit back and daydream while drinking a cup of tea and kill something in 8 seconds. Exciting stuff.
The fact that I encountered a 7 year old kid playing this game as well as anyone else pretty much says it all really.
To say the PvE in WAR is awesome is just stupid.....unless you're incredibly easy to please. Its pure 100% grind and doesnt do anything that hasnt already been done before......apart from PQ's but then thats still more grinding, especially if there is no-one around to join you in which case grinding out those Influence points is insanely boring beyond belief.
Sorry but I dont give a shit about Tome unlocks either. OK so you can win the thrilling privelige of having a title appear under your name. Who f**king cares?.....or a bit of text appears in the ToK. So what? Its all just boring fluff that Mythic have put into their game to make it seem like it has loads of "stuff". So they got a few guys to sit down and type out a load of text files. Big deal! What about making the game itself interesting? Oh no cant do that because that would mean deviating from the "Make your own mmo" manual which every games company MUST adhere to. A real book is far more interesting than any of the boring shit that pops up in the ToK.
Also the items that drop are so dull and generic. I never come across anything that looks unique or interesting. Everything just looks the same and as a result I look the same as everyone else of the same level as me. One of the appeals of grinding through boring PvE quests is that you get rewarded with the occasional item that looks nifty. That doesnt seem to happen in WAR. You just follow the yellow brick road that everyone else follows and upgrade your stuff at each check point.
The stupid thing is that WAR should have been a great RvR game and yet Mythic seems to have focused a lot of their attention on generating large amounts of PvE content which is essentially all the bloody same anyway. As a result I find myself just churning my way through the PvE quests while I wait to hop into a scenario to alleviate the boredom. I cant just get involved straight away with the open RvR part of the game because firstly there is a load of PvE shit between it and me and also whenever I get there it is empty most of the time because everyone else is doing the PvE (main content of the game) and scenarios.
So compared to any other mmo the PvE in WAR is just.....well.....the same as it has always been really except that it feels more restrictive as you just follow the road in the direction of the next tier. Its boring and yet kind of addictive......it has a few extra features added on but it really isnt worth paying a monthly fee for. Fortunately there is the PvP aspect to alleviate the repitition a bit but its just there as a bit of extra amusement as the RvR is pretty meaningless. In Warhammer Online the WAR just doesnt matter. You can ignore it all if you want and thats just daft.
WAR should have been a pure RvR game with NO PvE bullshit and NO scenarios. It also should never have been modelled on WoW. Mythic should have taken a more original approach and done something unique. Instead they took the easy road.
To the above poster:
I prefer RvR as well and I bought the game because of it. However I really got pleasantly surprised to find that PvE can more than hold its own...
All of your complaints can apply to any and all PvE in any MMO out there. What I am saying is that relatively WAR PvE is awesome... for PvE.
If you prefer PvP only then go for it - you can play the game from start to "finish" without ever doing a PvE quest or a PQ. You might level a bit slower and not get all the absolutely best gear in the game until you reach T4 but WAR is not the game for that kind of thinking anyway. I'd never trade not one of my RvR buddies that I've grown to know and synch together for all the PvE purplaz - teamwork, skill and experience >>> gear and levels in this game.
Well you're certainly entitled to your opinion ^^
Some Warhammer PvE experiences:
1) Plant the Staff, in Avelorn: I plant the staff and the first of the three mobs runs towards me from the center of the lake. I kill him, and expect 2 more to follow (cause the stupid quest list on the side of the screen is telling me exactly what should happen). Strangely, nothing else does happen - but I see the timer in the quest list and in the upper right corner. I wait for a few minutes then decide I better figure out what is going on before the timer runs out. I have to circle clear around the other side of the lake to find the others I have to kill. Apparently, they just wanted to chill for a while.
2) "Control" quest, in Avelorn: I go and get the Tear of Isha in the troll cave, and the quest informs me that I have to kill a sorceress before I escape the cave. I look around for about 30 seconds, and then finally the NPC appears near the exit of the room. I open up with ranged attack and get multiple reports of "Target is Not Attackable." I decide to move into melee in hopes that this is just a ranged bug. Nope. "Target is Not Attackable." Over and over. Meanwhile, the sorceress is frying me just fine. One of her guards shows up and I kill him, because he is attackable, but then another one shows up and I'm down to nothing for health, so I attempt to flee through the cave tunnels that have now been completely repopulated with Trolls. I die, of course. I go back later to see if the sorceress is still there and has become attackable - nope, they go away after a while. Lovely. (Oh, and nevermind the fact I have the Tear of Isha already in my inventory, there doesn't seem to be any way to return it to the proper individual because the sorceress objective wasn't completed.)
3) Another quest in Avelorn: This was a quest that involves going to the public quest with the stones and demon vines. The objective I remember was to kill a cultist within the ruins and take something the cultist had. I did so, then went back to camp before right-clicking on the item. The quest then tells me that I'm supposed to kill a demon before going back to camp. Since I didn't do that, I hurry back to the public quest and get there just in time to see the demon disappear. No quest completion for me.
These are just the examples that immediately popped into my head when I started reading the OP's title. There are dozens, if not hundreds more, that were just like them. It's not that I get frustrated when I encounter bugs and poor design playing a game that I like. It's when those things happen to me while doing ridiculously lame activities that I don't enjoy in the slightest that my nerves start getting pinched. The activities themselves aren't fun, I don't see how anyone can think they are - they are merely battles at guessing what lame conditions have been thrust upon you by a developer experiencing a time crunch. Adding unimmersive computerized inconsistency on top of them doesn't improve the appeal.
In my opinion, Warhammer has captured the essences of everything that is entirely disfunctional about PvE play in MMOs, and then they decided to use those essences as the building blocks of their world.
Could be I'm just lucky or I simply failed to notice the bugs / design flaws that you mention. For example take the "plant the staff" quest. I suppose I was on the right side of the lake so the mobs all spawned a couple dozen feet from me.
Actually fast respawning is something I do enjoy in the game - it makes you think fast on your feet, I wouldn't have it any other way. In mt Gunbad for example - if you wipe, you have to do it again, from the beginning, due to respawns. Now that's pretty challenging to me: no free wipes guys. Do it again and do it right.
Anywayz, do make an effort to post feedback / bug reports if you find them. I'm not saying there are no bugs or badly balanced and not really well tested quests.. However though I hate making comparisons of that kind I have yet to see a WoW PvE quest that would give me so much entertainment as those two in that plague village... It is really hard to put my finger down on what it is that makes PvE really different in "feel" of things - it may be those fast respawns that make you move much faster.. or the very "unbalanced" feeling that you sometimes get. "Crap, the target mob spawned too far from me - there are 3-4 respawns that I have to go through to get him - what now? Wait for reset so I can get a better position or just go for it?"
What I am really waiting for is the true merger of PvP and PvE like what we got with some dwarf/greenskin PQs.. Just now I went off with my alt to do some influence for dwarf ch 7 in the PQ involving defense of a huge wall (forgot its name). It is a race between destruction and order who is going to kill more enemy mobs in the same area. This was such enormous fun... destros had the lead because there were 3 of them and just a poor harrased IB on our side. I joined him (a WP) and we started annoying them and generally getting into their face. Heck we died a few times but we did manage to stall them just enough for the cavalry - a few guys from our guild - to arrive.. Total mayhem ensued. In the end it was a completely delightful free for all where we raced who is going to kill those mobs the fastest while at the same time trying to lure the opposing side into PvP by unflagging and pretending you've got too far from the core group (with a buddy or two hiding behind the tree lol). Anyways it was a total blast.... especially when stages 2 and 3 arrived. Destros were trying all they could to make us wipe there (out of pure spite and malice ofc
)- running into our aoes to unflag and then hit our healers - great, almost like a mini keep siege.
I really hope Mythic will eventually get to introducing PQs such as these into their RvR lakes, as they implied in the last MBJ state of the game. Personally this would be the best way to do PvE that I can imagine.
/ps
Sorry for my failing english.. I'm well past my bed time and english is not my native language.
It sounds like the bad PVE content of DAoC and its later added dungeons all over again.
Well it is the same Mythic....
To be honest I dont really have a huge problem with bugs and glitches in WAR. It all actually runs very smoothly for me.......as regular as clock-work in fact which isnt really surprising considering the extremely simplistic design of the game. It would be very hard to totally mess it up. But yes Mythic have made a very smooth PvE focused game......but then how would it be anything but smooth? How hard can it be for a large and talented games company to make something that has already been made several times by other companies? All the basic game mechanics already exist.....the only thing they had to do was change the way it looks.
The strange thing is that the AI of the mobs in WAR is actually less sophisticated than it is in WoW and thats really not a good thing. At least in WoW the mobs alert nearby buddies to come and help them. In WAR they dont register each other at all. I never found the PvE exciting in WoW and yet Mythic have actually managed to make it even more easy and predictable. Thats quite a shocking achievement. Arent games supposed to evolve?
I remember that PQ you referred to in the greenskins area where you have to fight over a wall. It was a small breath of fresh air actually and its a shame the ENTIRE game is not like that. Unfortunately though it just isnt. The only reason that PQ was interesting was because other players could be opponents. Its a classic case of players making their own fun because the game itself just isnt capable of providing it.
Saying that having fast respawns makes the game more challenging and therefore more fun is just insane. Mythic love players like you. Fighting a computer controlled mob with nearly zero AI in WAR is not challenging or interesting in any way. Like I said before I can do it with a cup of tea in one hand while watching TV at the same time. You think doing LOTS of increaes the challenge and fun factor?!
"Ok here is a monster. To kill it you have to press buttons 2, 3 and 4. You liked that? Oh ok then.....here are 10 more monsters. They look a bit different but you still fight them the same way with buttons 2, 3 and 4 because they do the same things as all the other monsters. Ok so you found that exciting? Well hell here are 50 of them all lined up waiting to be chopped down by buttons 2, 3 and 4. Oh look you chose to stand still in a place where you know that the monster you killed a minute ago is going to reappear. I bet you werent expecting that eh? Ya see we at Mythic like to throw surprises at you to keep you on your toes and make the game exciting. Oh yes we love the fact that you are paying us money each month to knock down our regenerating target dummies. We have covered our "world" with loads of these target dummies but dont worry they will always be there waiting to be knocked down by buttons 2, 3 and 4. Later on you get to press other buttons to knock them down with. Oh the excitement never ends."
Like I said before I met a 7 year old kid playing this game. He was ploughing his way through it all with total ease. It turned out that he had two level 70 WoW characters as well. Its intersting that what the 7 year old kid found easy is actually seen as an exciting challenge to you. I guess you are very easily pleased. Sorry but I'm an adult and I require something a lot more stimulating than this.
Hmm.. I agree that mob AI could have been better. But it is not a really big deal for me. In fact I don't find it any better or worse than what is the norm - it is WoW AI which is somewhat improved with some positional abilities such as knockbacks, knockdowns etc... an ogre can kick you off a cliff if you don't watch where you're standing for example.
"Its a classic case of players making their own fun because the game itself just isnt capable of providing it."
This is just so wrong on so many levels that I don't really know how to begin tackling it.
Every multiplayer game, from board games onwards, is all about providing a quality context which is conductive to players providing content to each other. A game that is pushing content into players faces instead of actually giving them the opportunity to do it themselves is moving away from multiplayer into singleplayer.
This is like saying Chess, Monopoly, COD4 and Counterstrike are crap games because they rely on players providing content to each other. In that sense every confrontational multiplayer is a bad game.. and besides that PQ was designed to push players against each other - as such it functions almost as a mini open-world scenario. I find it absolutely great fun and very well designed.
As for the 2-3-4 button thing.. please tell me one other MMO where it is not 2-3-4 button mashing against trash mobs? Ok, maybe D&D online which has really great mob AI and combat system but this comes at a very heavy price of instancing. I'd rather have an open world with 2-3-4 button mashing and basic AI where fast respawns provide the only challenge (which actually isn't the norm in WAR but for the sake of argument lets say it is) than a fantastically intricate basic PvE in a series of small instanced chambers. But that's just me though.
Um, this can perfectly happen in WOW already? I got knocked out of a tower by a moth just a few days ago, that's TBC content, not sure about old world.
Maybe it's the lack of knowledge of other PvE content that's making you assume WAR's is so much better? (you need to know both sides after all if you want to make a comparison that has any value)
Maybe its you pheace not realizing this is COMMON in war and uncommon in wow. Just maybe.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Um, this can perfectly happen in WOW already? I got knocked out of a tower by a moth just a few days ago, that's TBC content, not sure about old world.
Yeah, thats basically WoW-style mob AI. However I find that there is sligthly a bit more of those situations and they happen from level 1... In addition there are some slight variations in mob behaviors but nothing to write home about - like certain trolls who drop aggro when they knock you down and go for the next team member (if any), healer mobs who actually heal others (mt Gunbad ftw!) and that kind of thing.
I find the solo questing PvE part of WAR challenging only when it is in a multi-mob context. If you are looking for challenge when fighting a single mob you won't find it. The challenge comes from mob positioning, their patrol paths and fast respawns. Ofc a disclaimer is that not all PvE quests do it well but those that do are really satisfying. I hope Mythic will continue working on improving those "orphan" quests and give them this quality which I know they're capable of.
boring pve any way you color it
to find any challenge you have to grind mobs 3-5 levels over you for quest rewards you can't use for 2-3
levels after you complete the quest
By that sense it is COMMON-ly argumented that the PvE in WAR is felt as lacking compared to it's contemporaries and uncommon-ly people like you(assuming here) and Markoroas who seem to feel it's quite a step above (complete opposite thus).
For me it's just hard to imagine when I hear complaints about mobs that run in all different directions, bugging out and resetting, mobs that can all be pulled single file instead of grouping, whole camps where you can run around without hardly agroing anything, dungeons that lack any meaningful itemization etc etc.
Those arguments to me just seem to add more to that COMMON argument than I see here supporting the opposite.
I find the PQ's a relief in the MMO-world, no more endless dungeons where you know beforehand that you'll have to stay at least 2 hours, maybe 4 or 6 hours online and playing. You walk in and out a PQ without any consequences. I did PQ's alone, grouped with one friend, in a pug, in a guild run. At any level the PQ is different, but it works fine and indeed the rewards for finishing the last stage and the rewards for finishing a chapter are very nice.
I wished that they had invented this kind of replacement for dungeons years ago. It's easy accesible and offer entertainment for any playstyle. You can grind them or just explore them once (there are plenty), you can go for the big fat loot or just play them ten minutes to waste some time. With our guild we are usually able to finish a public quest within 30 minutes, lovely
Um, this can perfectly happen in WOW already? I got knocked out of a tower by a moth just a few days ago, that's TBC content, not sure about old world.
Maybe it's the lack of knowledge of other PvE content that's making you assume WAR's is so much better? (you need to know both sides after all if you want to make a comparison that has any value)
Again : read the red : everyone who played War and Wow can really only laugh about such remarks.
I said it a month ago this kind of hyped fan talk will be a HUGE blow to War in the end. It's like saying the Trabant former East German communist car is better than a James Bond sports car.
Until people drive the thing and see and feel the difference. The difference in PVE - compared to about all other MMORPG's - is indeed THAT big.
"I took a flight path in WAR and helped my friend doing a public quest". Yeah right.
OP : or you are ready for the X house or a rather good paid person to promote poorly things which aren't there.
And seeing the "Disney" kind of Avatar and always "positively" promoting stuff which simply is not even in the game, I think it's actually a well paid viral pushing of a MJ employee.
Um, this can perfectly happen in WOW already? I got knocked out of a tower by a moth just a few days ago, that's TBC content, not sure about old world.
Maybe it's the lack of knowledge of other PvE content that's making you assume WAR's is so much better? (you need to know both sides after all if you want to make a comparison that has any value)
Again : read the red : everyone who played War and Wow can really only laugh about such remarks.
I said it a month ago this kind of hyped fan talk will be a HUGE blow to War in the end. It's like saying the Trabant former East German communist car is better than a James Bond sports car.
Until people drive the thing and see and feel the difference. The difference in PVE - compared to about all other MMORPG's - is indeed THAT big.
"I took a flight path in WAR and helped my friend doing a public quest". Yeah right.
OP : or you are ready for the X house or a rather good paid person to promote poorly things which aren't there.
And seeing the "Disney" kind of Avatar and always "positively" promoting stuff which simply is not even in the game, I think it's actually a well paid viral pushing of a MJ employee.
Don't you ever get tired bodypass?
I played WoW since it came out and for me there is simply no comparison between the two games. I'd rather swallow a live snake than go back to WoW.
Imo a lot of people who are complaining about WAR, and especially its PvE will get a really nasty shock when they return to WoW.. Once you taste collision detection, real group synergies, freedom from time sinks, PQ-running and just the plain waagh of keep sieges on multiple fronts I don't think many will find their wonderful first-love MMO as wonderful as its become in their mind's eye.
I'll concur that LOTRO and even AoC may have better PvE overall (though I really do prefer WAR's style - PQs are the IT for me) however comparing it in unfavorable light to WoW's blandness and frustration is simply ridiculous.
Sorry but when I saw the "new fractions!" blurb in WOTLK ads I thought I'd puke. I really got dizzy for a moment thinking about all those pointless daily rep grind quests.
Have to say I pretty much agree with the OP. I've played just about every MMO out there and the PvE is comparible. (and for the record, 4x70's in WoW, handful of 60+) Groundbreaking - no. But it's solid enough.
If you are bored in PvE, you aren't pulling enough each time. Every game's PvE is boring if you play it safe every pull. Then again, I run with a steady crew and never solo - so it's usually a good 10 mob pull at minimum.
That said though, I wish some of the MMO companies would invest a little more into A.I. routines. I don't mean tired old scripted encounters but random behaviors and tactics. Same with mounts - I would like a mount that seemed like it was actually a living creature, not just a motorcycle with a cardboard dinosaur cover.
I hit 40 with a full quest log and am still being offered even more. While I found my share of bugged quests, I never found anything game breaking which is to be commended this short into it's lifespan. Gunbad and Bastion Stair were fun, hope to see more additions.
As for humor - there's plenty of it around but not all of it is pop trash "Haris Pilton" or "Snakes on a Plane" crap. Satire abounds.
I actually played WAR for 3 weeks. Then, 1 night I was asked by guildies to go back in WoW and tank Kalegos cause there was no 3rd tank. Well.....I was like "WOAAAAAAAAAAH! Has this game always been THAT good?"
Should I say I never went back to WAR in the last week of my sub?
I should thank Mythic for showing me why I still play WoW. Was getting quite boring lately.
I didnt ever expect much on the PvE side of this game. Its designed as a pvp game after all. DAoC was the same way. So really it doesnt bother me.
Um, this can perfectly happen in WOW already? I got knocked out of a tower by a moth just a few days ago, that's TBC content, not sure about old world.
Maybe it's the lack of knowledge of other PvE content that's making you assume WAR's is so much better? (you need to know both sides after all if you want to make a comparison that has any value)
Again : read the red : everyone who played War and Wow can really only laugh about such remarks.
I said it a month ago this kind of hyped fan talk will be a HUGE blow to War in the end. It's like saying the Trabant former East German communist car is better than a James Bond sports car.
Until people drive the thing and see and feel the difference. The difference in PVE - compared to about all other MMORPG's - is indeed THAT big.
"I took a flight path in WAR and helped my friend doing a public quest". Yeah right.
OP : or you are ready for the X house or a rather good paid person to promote poorly things which aren't there.
And seeing the "Disney" kind of Avatar and always "positively" promoting stuff which simply is not even in the game, I think it's actually a well paid viral pushing of a MJ employee.
Don't you ever get tired bodypass?
I played WoW since it came out and for me there is simply no comparison between the two games. I'd rather swallow a live snake than go back to WoW.
Imo a lot of people who are complaining about WAR, and especially its PvE will get a really nasty shock when they return to WoW.. Once you taste collision detection, real group synergies, freedom from time sinks, PQ-running and just the plain waagh of keep sieges on multiple fronts I don't think many will find their wonderful first-love MMO as wonderful as its become in their mind's eye.
I'll concur that LOTRO and even AoC may have better PvE overall (though I really do prefer WAR's style - PQs are the IT for me) however comparing it in unfavorable light to WoW's blandness and frustration is simply ridiculous.
Sorry but when I saw the "new fractions!" blurb in WOTLK ads I thought I'd puke. I really got dizzy for a moment thinking about all those pointless daily rep grind quests.
Nice try. But I won't take the bite.
Like I said in another post: stop blowing the pipe. The game is published and everyone can play it.
You are still spreading "the word" for the guys who still haven't played the game.
So this is definitely viral publishing, paid or not. Because everyone who played KNOWS the quality of the product after a certain playing time.
And it doesn't help, because otherwise the game would NOT drop on amazon.com sales, the number of players on Xfire would NOT drop while 250K extra accounts were created in the last 4 weeks.
I just point out little sentences in red and I'll keep doing it, just to assure people where to look at the reality of these viral posts.
The real problem is: War tried and tries (just look at your post) to lure ex Wow players who are fed up with the game after playing it for years into War, but you need to have equal quality.... and there lies the problem for War.
Marc Jacobs thought: let's have all those PvP'er who are waiting before the BG's lure into our game, the original Warhammer.
But it doens't work that way: first you need to have an EXCELLENT game, not a "lure in" game, not a game based on "gaining the bored ones". Because that trick doesn't make good games and certainly wont hold the attention for more than a few weeks, before "again" being bored of the same but with lesser possibilities and lesser development.
Hence you still post the same way as weeks before open beta. Let's have some positive post to lure people in.
The problem is: the bored ones you got (and 50% left War already), the others aren't bored and while they buy they certainly will see the difference, just look at the result of ONE patch 3 days ago and the numbers on Xfire.
That's why I say you are a viral publisher, nothing more nothing less, but hardly a source of information.
Um, this can perfectly happen in WOW already? I got knocked out of a tower by a moth just a few days ago, that's TBC content, not sure about old world.
Maybe it's the lack of knowledge of other PvE content that's making you assume WAR's is so much better? (you need to know both sides after all if you want to make a comparison that has any value)
Again : read the red : everyone who played War and Wow can really only laugh about such remarks.
I said it a month ago this kind of hyped fan talk will be a HUGE blow to War in the end. It's like saying the Trabant former East German communist car is better than a James Bond sports car.
Until people drive the thing and see and feel the difference. The difference in PVE - compared to about all other MMORPG's - is indeed THAT big.
"I took a flight path in WAR and helped my friend doing a public quest". Yeah right.
OP : or you are ready for the X house or a rather good paid person to promote poorly things which aren't there.
And seeing the "Disney" kind of Avatar and always "positively" promoting stuff which simply is not even in the game, I think it's actually a well paid viral pushing of a MJ employee.
Don't you ever get tired bodypass?
I played WoW since it came out and for me there is simply no comparison between the two games. I'd rather swallow a live snake than go back to WoW.
Imo a lot of people who are complaining about WAR, and especially its PvE will get a really nasty shock when they return to WoW.. Once you taste collision detection, real group synergies, freedom from time sinks, PQ-running and just the plain waagh of keep sieges on multiple fronts I don't think many will find their wonderful first-love MMO as wonderful as its become in their mind's eye.
I'll concur that LOTRO and even AoC may have better PvE overall (though I really do prefer WAR's style - PQs are the IT for me) however comparing it in unfavorable light to WoW's blandness and frustration is simply ridiculous.
Sorry but when I saw the "new fractions!" blurb in WOTLK ads I thought I'd puke. I really got dizzy for a moment thinking about all those pointless daily rep grind quests.
Nice try. But I won't take the bite.
Like I said in another post: stop blowing the pipe. The game is published and everyone can play it.
You are still spreading "the word" for the guys who still haven't played the game.
So this is definitely viral publishing, paid or not. Because everyone who played KNOWS the quality of the product after a certain playing time.
And it doesn't help, because otherwise the game would NOT drop on amazon.com sales, the number of players on Xfire would NOT drop while 250K extra accounts were created in the last 4 weeks.
I just point out little sentences in red and I'll keep doing it, just to assure people where to look at the reality of these viral posts.
The real problem is: War tried and tries (just look at your post) to lure ex Wow players who are fed up with the game after playing it for years into War, but you need to have equal quality.... and there lies the problem for War.
Marc Jacobs thought: let's have all those PvP'er who are waiting before the BG's lure into our game, the original Warhammer.
But it doens't work that way: first you need to have an EXCELLENT game, not a "lure in" game, not a game based on "gaining the bored ones". Because that trick doesn't make good games and certainly wont hold the attention for more than a few weeks, before "again" being bored of the same but with lesser possibilities and lesser development.
Hence you still post the same way as weeks before open beta. Let's have some positive post to lure people in.
The problem is: the bored ones you got (and 50% left War already), the others aren't bored and while they buy they certainly will see the difference, just look at the result of ONE patch 3 days ago and the numbers on Xfire.
That's why I say you are a viral publisher, nothing more nothing less, but hardly a source of information.
Lol bodypass, you are calling me a viral "publisher"? That's too rich...
Oh dear...
I'm wasting my time on this site instead of playing the game exactly because I feel the need to fight people like you. There is nothing wrong with liking or not liking a game but the amount of sheer misinformation you and your ilk spew on this site is really stupendous. I find it revolting that many people will pass the chance to try this great game just because they got lied in their face by rabid haters such as you.
I'm entitled to my opinion like anybody else but I at least try to back it up with arguments rather than plain misinformation and misinterpretation. I will write what I think about the game because that is my prerogative. If somebody doesn't like it then go ahead and say it. Just don't try to back it up with lies because I will savage you (if I find the time that is).
And besides all of this is pointless. I could be a paid marketeer just like you could or anybody else on this site. We'll (probably) never know.
To all the people out on the limb I'll always suggest going to Metacritic site http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/warhammeronline?q=warhammer%20online which is the final authority regarding the reviews, both professional and user. IMO this trumps your xfire numbers or whatever other arbitrary "criterion" you pulled out of your behind as the relevant measure of WAR's quality as a MMO.